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ESR Gets Job Offer From Microsoft

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the now-that-would-have-been-hilarious dept.

epsalon writes "Eric S. Raymond, the well known Open Source Evangelist, recently received a job offer from Microsoft, that he strongly refused. Is this another attempt to lure Open Source figures or just ignorance?" From his post: "I called [the Microsoft HR rep], who told me my name had been passed to him by his research team. I indicated to him that I thought somebody was probably having a little joke at his expense, and promised him an email reply."

47 of 642 comments (clear)

  1. Your New Job, ESR... by ackthpt · · Score: 4, Funny
    MS: Sit in this office. Call no one. Write nothing. Issue no memos. Reply to no email.

    ESR: I can't do that?

    MS: Can't handle the isolation?

    ESR: No, I have to sound off every now and then or people will forget about me!

    MS: Well... that's what were actually shooting for.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Your New Job, ESR... by madprof · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As much as he's no doubt done a lot, he could do with toning his ego down a bit.

    2. Re:Your New Job, ESR... by msuzio · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd certainly chip in to get him to shut the fuck up for once.

      --
      It's a strange world -- let's keep it that way
    3. Re:Your New Job, ESR... by pohl · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I'd certainly chip in to get him to shut the fuck up for once.

      ...says yet-another-blogger.

      --

      The "cue the foo posts in 3, 2, 1..." posts will commence with no subsequent foo posts in 3, 2, 1...

  2. Job offer? by steevo.com · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since when is a request for an interview a "job offer"?

    1. Re:Job offer? by That's+Unpossible! · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's a job offer when you are well know.

      If he was that well known, apparantly he wouldn't have received the "job offer."

      Here is a comment someone made on his site about this:

      "This is a simple mistake. The recruiter's email address starts with a "v-", which stands for "vendor", i.e., they are not microsoft employees. I know this because I work there. The recruiter obviously didn't do any research and has sent a standard (templated) email to the applicant. There is no where in the email any indication of "offer of employment" as ESR claims in his reply. Recruiter has tactfully said that he wants to do a preliminary telephone screen. Thats about it."

      --
      Ironically, the word ironically is often used incorrectly.
    2. Re:Job offer? by Cutie+Pi · · Score: 5, Funny

      clearly not /. worthy news :(

      Two years ago you would have been right. But with the downhill bent that Slashdot has been on lately, this story is not only newsworthy, but will be duped sometime later today.

    3. Re:Job offer? by Krach42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Microsoft tries to recruit me" title from TFA. Now, agreed that doesn't say "job offer" at all.

      But considering that I, also as an open source developer, with a lot of Computing experience was practically guarenteed a position somewhere at Microsoft when they called me to try and recruit me. Somehow, I don't think it would be that far of a stretch to say, that if ESR had expressed any interest in getting hired by Microsoft that they would have picked him up right away.

      And just for the record: How do you "buyout" a community that makes Open Source software to ensure that they can't continue working? Hire them into your fold... for ANYTHING, and then tell them that they can't work on FOSS as a matter of company policy.

      THAT is how you buyout open source software.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
    4. Re:Job offer? by njcoder · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Since when is a request for an interview a "job offer"?"

      Since the person responding to it seems to think he's a lot more important than he is. I'm sorry but this is just plain sad. Maybe it's a bit humorous that ESR got a standard HR templated letter before the HR person did the research to see who this person is but ESR's response is actually quite sad. Starts off the same way as most ESR stories start off. ESR misinterprets what's going on but uses that to make a stand and pump himself up. Microsoft's worse nightmare? Please. If I had to pick Microsoft's worse nightmare it would be someone like Oracle, Sun, IBM, RedHat or some company like that. They have caused a lot more damage to MS's bottom line and trouble for them. Linus definately has made a few MS exec's wake up screaming "Mommy" more than ESR. Worst? Not by a long-shot.

      Open Source isn't a company but it seems people like ESR have decided they've been promoted to upper management and spend more of their time being advocates than developers. While I don't always agree with what Linus says, he's at least a respectable leader in that he is still active in Open Source development. People like ESR have developed into loudmouths who have tried to capitalize on some of their open source achievements but gave up on working on open source software. This is probably the biggest threat to open source in my opinion.

      I'm sorry to Eric and his fan base but getting a form letter from some HR person, posting it along with an over the top reply on your blog and having your fans talk it up and post it on slashdot doesn't keep you relevant. Do Something.

      If MS was really trying to recruit ESR for the important person he is, they would have contacted him more directly and with a more personalized letter. Either this is someone making a mistake, or MS did want to hire him, they just don't think he's all that important to waste 5 minutes writing a letter.

      --
      Open Source Java DAO Generator
    5. Re:Job offer? by karnal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wow.

      I just read through his response letter. Has everyone lost their professional touch? ESR definitely makes himself look like a jerk with that response.

      In the real world, people tend to be more polite.

      --
      Karnal
    6. Re:Job offer? by Guillaume+Laurent · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In short, he would probably make a good addition to just about any team.

      Between his oversized ego, his misperception of himself as a highly skilled programmer, his mostly outdated skills, and the fact that when he did try to collaborate to a team (with his kernel build system) he failed by committing a typical beginner's mistake (forgetting the requirements and getting caught in adding new "cool" features), I seriously doubt he would.

      I'd be surprised if any software company would hire him other than for purely PR reasons.

  3. Get over yourself ESR! by sulli · · Score: 4, Insightful
    I am the guy who responded to Craig Mundie's "Who are you?" with "I'm your worst nightmare", and that I've in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare since about 1997.

    How terrible it has been for them, to have this guy as their worst nightmare.

    What a pompous ass.

    --

    sulli
    RTFJ.
    1. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What a pompous ass.

      Indeed. He actually used the words "piss on Microsoft's grave". That (and the preceding paragraph) says lots about his professionalism and conduct.

      The nearest example I could relate to would be getting a job offer (which isn't what this was either, btw) from the RNC. As much of a die hard liberal and Democrat as I am (and given that politics matters a lot more then software, imho anyway) I would not use this type of language in declining such a job offer.

      Pompous ass sounds about right.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by NicodemusPrime · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What a pompous ass.

      I agree. That was very un-professional of him. If I were an IBM exec, I would be a little upset about that name drop. I love Linux but stuff like this is holding it back. Do we really want this to be the public perception of our Linux all-stars? What a self-absorbed asshole. He even referred to his own writings as propaganda.

    3. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Insightful
      From TFA, speaketh the Raymond:
      You've maybe heard about this "open source" thing? You get one guess who wrote most of the theory and propaganda for it and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in.
      He thinks he talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in? He certainly campaigned, for better or worse, but it's hard to believe that the only reason big corporations signed on was ESR. That they didn't hear about the benefits of FOSS from within their own organizations. That, indeed, someone with the diplomacy and tact exhibited in this message, not to mention his threats against Bruce Perens, would be the person able to convince a stalling CEO/CTO to give FOSS a try. It's also a little ironic - the rants against Stallman and the FSF of the "Show them the code" type constituted the one thing that the OSI never really did (and the FSF was doing very well.)

      Well, whatever. I don't want to sound ungrateful for ESR's very real efforts, but the guy's credibility tends to be undermined whenever he comes up with this kind of thing. The letter to Microsoft is rude. It's pompous. It brings up an image of delusions of grandeur. It's a good thing he's no longer OSI head-honcho, IMO, and I fear that he set the wrong tone for what was to come.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I would use that language, and I worked for Microsoft in the past. I was stupid and left during the dot-com boom, thinking that the new dot-coms would offer better growth (I was wrong!).

      Anyway, if approached by Microsoft today to come back, I would use language similar to his, only I would indicate different reasoning: their current policy shift away from pro-consumer, and restricting the user at every turn; treating every single customer like a criminal. Not allowing de-activation of Windows for license transfers. Implementing DRM throughout the OS. Suing customers who switch away from Windows, or sell old, retired licenses on eBay. Suing college students who resell UNOPENED academic licensing after Microsoft and their resellers refuse to honor the 30-day money-back guarantee, then when they settle out of court after being countersued for breach of contract, pay up big and then bind the customer to an NDA to hide the evil.

      Fuck Microsoft. Really. This is coming from a former Microserf, and a former Microsoft fan.

    5. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by Otter · · Score: 4, Informative
      Excuse please, but what possible point could you be making by comparing stock price of Microsoft with the stock price of a dot-bomb company whose stock symbol happens to look like "linux"?

      Presumably he's referring to Raymond's charming essay, just after the LNUX IPO, when he bragged at length about how fantastically rich he now was. (Raymond, IIRC, was on their board with the position of "corporate conscience".)

      --
      What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    6. Re:Get over yourself ESR! by JahToasted · · Score: 4, Funny

      It is relevant since ESR once bragged up how rich he is (and how he wasn't going to let that change him, etc) when he was given some LNUX stock. He's not bragging too much about that anymore.

  4. Dinner time by Space+cowboy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    [grin] Would *you* dine with the devil ?

    Given that I'm constantly being told how bad the IT job-market is, I suspect most would... Now Eric's made a chunk of change out of being an OS advocate (I think it was Redhat that gave him a load of shares), but I'm sure MS is in the position to offer seriously tempting offers to just about anyone. Kudos to him for sticking by his principles...

    Simon

    --
    Physicists get Hadrons!
  5. Sounds arrogant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    If you had bothered to do five seconds of background checking, you
    might have discovered that I am the guy who responded to Craig
    Mundie's "Who are you?" with "I'm your worst nightmare", and that I've
    in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare
    since about 1997. You've maybe heard about this "open source" thing?
    You get one guess who wrote most of the theory and propaganda for it
    and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in.
    But don't think I'm trying to destroy your company. Oh, no; I'd be
    just as determined to do in any other proprietary-software monopoly,
    and the community I helped found is well on its way to accomplishing
    that goal.

    Pride goeth before a fall. The classy thing to do would be to thank the person (whose v- address signifies that they're a vendor, in this case a headhunter) and decline politely, then make your plans to piss on Gates's grave or whatever floats your boat.
  6. ACCEPT by Karem+Lore · · Score: 4, Funny
    Under the following conditions:

    1) Your office filetypes are made public

    2) Your publicises the OS system server calls.

    3) Stop funding biased reports.

    4) Hey, while your at it: open-source Windows OS (all of them)...

    --
    When all is said and done, nothing changes...
  7. It's NOT an offer... just a troll... by byteCoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not to burst ESR's bubble, but it's not a job offer. It's simply a Microsoft recruiting vendor trolling for people who might be interested.

    I get a similar e-mail every few months.

  8. In other news... by screevo · · Score: 5, Funny

    George Bush offers Michael Moore a cabinet position. Hilary Clinton becomes spokeswoman for Rockstar Games. Tipper Gore and Dee Snider release a duet album.

  9. Sashclode by tehshen · · Score: 5, Funny

    On the day *I* go to work for Microsoft, faint oinking sounds will be heard from far overhead, the moon will not merely turn blue but develop polkadots, and hell will freeze over so solid the brimstone will go superconductive.

    Apparently he was also going to put in "and Slashdot begins using CSS", but took it out at the last minute.

    --
    Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
  10. How insulting by kote-men-do · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I'd thank you for your offer of employment at Microsoft, except that it indicates that either you or your research team (or both) couldn't get a clue if it were pounded into you with baseball bats. What were you going to do with the rest of your afternoon, offer jobs to Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds?"

    Right, because we all know ESR is on the same level with those two guys because he's responsible for uh... What exactly did he do?

    Obligatory "Everboby loves Eric Raymond": http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them- the-code

  11. Well done ESR by ellem · · Score: 5, Funny

    you came off like a professional and stable person. thank goodness you are taking it upon yourself to represent the OS movement. certainly many other professional people will want to join you.

    --
    This .sig is fake but accurate.
    1. Re:Well done ESR by Krach42 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      you came off like a professional and stable person.

      Really... um... did you EXPECT ESR to react in a rational and polite manner?

      It's like George Bush offering a job to Michael Moore. What do you think Michael Moore would do? Politely decline and keep it private?

      Hell no!

      That's the thing with vocal individuals... they're really loud.

      --

      I am unamerican, and proud of it!
  12. Handled very incompetently by mcgroarty · · Score: 5, Funny

    ESR's only valid response should have been to accept an interview and show up roaring drunk.

  13. Re:Well Known ? by dstewart · · Score: 4, Funny

    Eric Raymond's just this guy, you know?

    --
    Not every argument requires reduction to absurdity.
  14. Raymond fits right into MS by tjstork · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look at his email. He takes credit for an entire movement? Cut me a break. His cathedral and bazaar paper was a bunch of pot smoking nonsense. What a blow hard. What did he write that was so amazing or complicated? His web site is all "I contributed to, was in a meeting with..."

    The guy is a total fraud.

    --
    This is my sig.
  15. could be a trend by paulbd · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This happened to me recently as well. I am not as well known as ESR in general linux circles, but those of you who mess around with audio software on Linux probably know me as the author of both JACK and Ardour. MS called me 10 days ago about a job, and emailed me again yesterday. The caller indicated that he knew all about my work on linux audio, and my feelings about MS, but assured me that "MS was changing". I was sent a URL for an PR/newswire "article" suggesting that MS was moving "toward open source".

    Like ESR, I indicated to them that Microsoft was a company that I could never consider working for, under any circumstances whatsoever.

    1. Re:could be a trend by demachina · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is seeing how many open source people will succumb to high paying jobs with nice stock options, though it was silly to contact Eric because there was 100% probability he would just flame them, use it to pump up his ego and be his usual publicity hound self.

      If they identify a lot of open source contributors who are struggling to make ends meet working in the open source world and hire them they both reduce contributions to open source, and they make open source look bad. In particular they are testing to see if people will sell out and sell open source down the river in exchange for piles of cash. Their coffers are deep enough they could hire a lot of struggling open source developers with ease.

      They kind of did this to OpenGL a while ago, hiring Kurt Akeley, David Blythe and Michael Cohen in particular. Those people were faced with clinging to the sinking ship that is SGI and OpenGL or sell out to Microsoft and DirectX which totally dominates the desktop and gaming. They both get good researchers and they drain talent away from OpenGL in hopes of pushing it further in to irrelevance.

      If you hop in to the wayback machine they did the same thing to Borland, hiring all their top people just to put them out to pasture.

      --
      @de_machina
    2. Re:could be a trend by byteherder · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you hop in to the wayback machine they did the same thing to Borland, hiring all their top people just to put them out to pasture.

      Microsoft completely raided the Borland C++ compiler development team.
      Borland had the best product and Microsoft's was a crappy also-ran.
      After the raid, Microsoft had the best product and Borland never recovered.

  16. Slipping of MS's radar? by tdvaughan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My wife, upon hearing of this, suggested that if something like this could happen maybe I haven't made enough trouble for Microsoft lately, and I'm slipping off their radar. She might have a point...

    Come on, ESR is pretty much off everyone's radar at the moment and has been for some time. The problem is that he doesn't DO anything much - as opposed to RMS and Linus who are of continuing significance. Seriously, aside from posting about gun rights and racial IQ differences on his blog, what does ESR get up to these days that anyone really cares about?

    1. Re:Slipping of MS's radar? by Russ+Nelson · · Score: 5, Informative

      gpsd? Or does code not qualify as code?
      -russ

      --
      Don't piss off The Angry Economist
  17. What a pompous jerk by duffbeer703 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The recruiter is just doing his job. Why abuse the guy?

    As big as Raymond thinks that he is, bullshitting with IBM execs and "maintaining" the jargon file doesn't make you a B-list celebrity.

    I've always found the the way that people treat waiters, clerical staff, etc reveals alot about that person's character. Raymond's self-aggrandizing, insulting and borderline abusive reply says nearly all that needs to be said about him.

    --
    Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
  18. Misleading by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ESR got an unsolicited form letter from a recruiting vendor doing the email equivalent of cold-calling -- otherwise known as "Spamming".

    Of course, his response was humorous, and possibly therefore worthy of /. attention, but please. Spare us.

    I would rather have seen an "unsubscribe" reply... with a followup in case he gets another email from the vendor.

    --
    "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
  19. It's happened to me... by thrillbert · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Below is the set of emails of when MS tried to recruit me. Read from bottom up since that's how the emails were actually sent.


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: James Hunt
    To: 'Mauricio '
    Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:46 AM
    Subject: RE: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV

    Thank you for the quick reply. I respect an individual that sticks to
    their morals. Take care.

    James

    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: Mauricio [mailto:mauricio@xxxx.com%5D
    > Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:51 PM
    > To: James Hunt
    > Subject: Re: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
    >
    >
    > James
    >
    > Thank you for taking the time to look at my resume and to send me the
    > description for this job. Unfortunately, being an advocate of open source,
    > it would be against my morals to work for the Anti-Christ. But I do
    > appreciate you having taken the time to email me.
    >
    > Regards,
    > Mauricio
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: James Hunt
    > To:
    > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:15 PM
    > Subject: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
    >
    >
    > > Hi Mauricio,
    > >
    > > I am interested in your background for our full-time UNIX/Solaris sys.
    > admin
    > > position at Mircosoft.
    > >
    > > This position is within the Network Operations Center of our WebTV
    > division
    > > which is a 100% Solaris shop, supporting more than 1 million
    subscribers.
    > > We are located at the brand new Microsoft Silicon Valley Campus in
    > Mountain
    > > View, along with several other Microsoft divisions (5 buildings).
    > >
    > > If you are interested, I would like to set up a time for us to speak via
    > > phone. Simply reply to this message or call me at (650) 693 3542.
    > >
    > > I have also attached the job description. >
    > >
    > > Kindest Regards,
    > >
    > > James
    > >
    > >
    > > James Hunt
    > > Microsoft - WebTV
    > > Technical Recruiter
    > > http://www.webtv.com/
    > > http://www.microsoft.com/

    ---
    Film at 11!

    1. Re:It's happened to me... by dnaumov · · Score: 5, Interesting
      > > Hi Mauricio,
      > >
      > > I am interested in your background for our full-time UNIX/Solaris sys.
      > admin
      > > position at Mircosoft.

      Somehow I just got this feeling that you pulled this "email conversation" out of your ass. I highly doubt a recruiter from Microsoft would make a typo like that.
    2. Re:It's happened to me... by GPLDAN · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't doubt it. Tech recruiters don't work for the company they are recruiting for, are often sloppy and in a rush, and usually not that bright. What they are good at, is social networking.

  20. Full of himself... by RexRhino · · Score: 5, Funny

    Here is a small digest of the reply to Microsoft:

    "WHAT? You don't know me? Why, I am famous. Yes I am so, so famous! You must be an idiot if you don't know my name! Why I am your worse nightmare! I said that in a very famous online flame war! I am the famous open source guy! I am up there with Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds. You have heard of them, but you never head of me? But I am famous! Your an idiot if you don't know who I am!"

    What a pompous ass!

    Can't we get some open source advocates with charisma? Maybe we could all pitch in and hire an out of work TV actor to be our open source spokesperson, instead of the usual juvenile socially disaffected geeks.

    1. Re:Full of himself... by justforaday · · Score: 4, Funny

      Can't we get some open source advocates with charisma?

      Sure, but they'll only have a 10 or 11 in wisdom and intelligence...

      --
      I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
  21. What a tool. by maelstrom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'd rather work for Microsoft than have anything to do with someone who writes an e-mail like that and is proud of himself after doing so.

    --
    The more you know, the less you understand.
  22. Johnson, take a look at this! by Gruneun · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare since about 1997... wrote most of the theory and propaganda for [open source] and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in...I'd be just as determined to do in any other proprietary-software monopoly.

    MS Exec: "Dear Lord, this guy is full of the worst concoction of bullshit and self-importance I've ever seen. We have to get him a position in marketing."

  23. Re:ESR Offer by thesandtiger · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The people who are like ESR

    You mean people too dumb to realize that the email was a template sent from a headhunter who is contracted to, but doesn't actually work as an employee of Microsoft?

    Or do you mean people who are so absolutely lacking in sense and diplomacy that they go off like a loon on something like this, giving their "enemies" perfect ammunition in the form of "Gee, you're really thinking of open source stuff, huh? Well, you know... This guy (hands out a copy of this rant) is one of the key people behind that whole thing, and he doesn't exactly come off as stable, you know? Do you really want to trust your business to that guy? Or would you rather trust it to a company like us, with a long history and billions of dollars that isn't going anywhere?"

    Or perhaps you mean people who are so self-absorbed that they dismiss the work of the entire OS community and take credit for their work?

    Or maybe you meant someone who is so freaking delusional that he thinks he singlehandedly talked the Fortune 500 into examining open source?

    I'm no MS fangirl, but jesus, if this is an example of a FOSS evangelist... There's a rather serious image issue, dontcha think? "Starving" the FOSS movement of resources like ESR might not be a bad idea.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  24. ESR's Maturity Level by blibbler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After reading this, it is not difficult to understand why Open Source is not treated seriously. That ESR was offered a job at Microsoft is inherently interesting and amusing; his (public) reply makes him sound like a 14 year old boy trying to impress his friends with false stories of sexual prowess.

  25. Meanwhile, in Steve Balmer's office ... by krygny · · Score: 5, Funny

    Steve Balmer: "Please tell me you didn't try to recruit Eric Raymond."

    Mike Walters: "It was Eric Raymond."

    Steve Balmer does his Bobby Knight imitation.

    --
    Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.