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ESR Gets Job Offer From Microsoft
epsalon writes "Eric S. Raymond, the well known Open Source Evangelist, recently received a job offer from Microsoft, that he strongly refused. Is this another attempt to lure Open Source figures or just ignorance?" From his post: "I called [the Microsoft HR rep], who told me my name had been passed to him by his research team. I indicated to him that I thought somebody was probably having a little joke at his expense, and promised him an email reply."
Also, RMS got a boob job and Ben Collins had his hair cut. Front page news at 11.
Is slashdot a celebrity gossip site for geeks now or something?
ESR: I can't do that?
MS: Can't handle the isolation?
ESR: No, I have to sound off every now and then or people will forget about me!
MS: Well... that's what were actually shooting for.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Since when is a request for an interview a "job offer"?
"It's funny. Laugh" should have been at the top of the totem pole.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
How terrible it has been for them, to have this guy as their worst nightmare.
What a pompous ass.
sulli
RTFJ.
[grin] Would *you* dine with the devil ?
Given that I'm constantly being told how bad the IT job-market is, I suspect most would... Now Eric's made a chunk of change out of being an OS advocate (I think it was Redhat that gave him a load of shares), but I'm sure MS is in the position to offer seriously tempting offers to just about anyone. Kudos to him for sticking by his principles...
Simon
Physicists get Hadrons!
His page :
http://www.catb.org/~esr/
Pride goeth before a fall. The classy thing to do would be to thank the person (whose v- address signifies that they're a vendor, in this case a headhunter) and decline politely, then make your plans to piss on Gates's grave or whatever floats your boat.
1) Your office filetypes are made public
2) Your publicises the OS system server calls.
3) Stop funding biased reports.
4) Hey, while your at it: open-source Windows OS (all of them)...
When all is said and done, nothing changes...
Not to burst ESR's bubble, but it's not a job offer. It's simply a Microsoft recruiting vendor trolling for people who might be interested.
I get a similar e-mail every few months.
Not surprising, really... With all the good people Microsoft's losing to Google, someone's got to pick up the slack.
how about asking bill to join the openoffice team?
George Bush offers Michael Moore a cabinet position. Hilary Clinton becomes spokeswoman for Rockstar Games. Tipper Gore and Dee Snider release a duet album.
I remeber this episode! ESR takes the job after Microsft offers to give ESR's son a "real life" and wipe everyone's memory.
The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.
On the day *I* go to work for Microsoft, faint oinking sounds will be heard from far overhead, the moon will not merely turn blue but develop polkadots, and hell will freeze over so solid the brimstone will go superconductive.
Apparently he was also going to put in "and Slashdot begins using CSS", but took it out at the last minute.
Guy asked me for a quarter for a cup of coffee. So I bit him.
It may not be a joke on the part of MS. Think about it, how do you shut down the threat of Open Source? Starve it of resources. Now what are the resources? The people who are like ESR. Put it very bluntly this is war and MS is determined to deny the enemy (Linux) the materials (people) to wage war.
Panic now, beat the rush!
"I'd thank you for your offer of employment at Microsoft, except that it indicates that either you or your research team (or both) couldn't get a clue if it were pounded into you with baseball bats. What were you going to do with the rest of your afternoon, offer jobs to Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds?"
Right, because we all know ESR is on the same level with those two guys because he's responsible for uh... What exactly did he do?
Obligatory "Everboby loves Eric Raymond": http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them- the-code
you came off like a professional and stable person. thank goodness you are taking it upon yourself to represent the OS movement. certainly many other professional people will want to join you.
This
ESR's only valid response should have been to accept an interview and show up roaring drunk.
Look at his email. He takes credit for an entire movement? Cut me a break. His cathedral and bazaar paper was a bunch of pot smoking nonsense. What a blow hard. What did he write that was so amazing or complicated? His web site is all "I contributed to, was in a meeting with..."
The guy is a total fraud.
This is my sig.
This happened to me recently as well. I am not as well known as ESR in general linux circles, but those of you who mess around with audio software on Linux probably know me as the author of both JACK and Ardour. MS called me 10 days ago about a job, and emailed me again yesterday. The caller indicated that he knew all about my work on linux audio, and my feelings about MS, but assured me that "MS was changing". I was sent a URL for an PR/newswire "article" suggesting that MS was moving "toward open source".
Like ESR, I indicated to them that Microsoft was a company that I could never consider working for, under any circumstances whatsoever.
My wife, upon hearing of this, suggested that if something like this could happen maybe I haven't made enough trouble for Microsoft lately, and I'm slipping off their radar. She might have a point...
Come on, ESR is pretty much off everyone's radar at the moment and has been for some time. The problem is that he doesn't DO anything much - as opposed to RMS and Linus who are of continuing significance. Seriously, aside from posting about gun rights and racial IQ differences on his blog, what does ESR get up to these days that anyone really cares about?
A v- email address at microsoft means that you are not a full time employee, but are a contract worker.
The recruiter is just doing his job. Why abuse the guy?
As big as Raymond thinks that he is, bullshitting with IBM execs and "maintaining" the jargon file doesn't make you a B-list celebrity.
I've always found the the way that people treat waiters, clerical staff, etc reveals alot about that person's character. Raymond's self-aggrandizing, insulting and borderline abusive reply says nearly all that needs to be said about him.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
ESR got an unsolicited form letter from a recruiting vendor doing the email equivalent of cold-calling -- otherwise known as "Spamming".
/. attention, but please. Spare us.
Of course, his response was humorous, and possibly therefore worthy of
I would rather have seen an "unsubscribe" reply... with a followup in case he gets another email from the vendor.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
Below is the set of emails of when MS tried to recruit me. Read from bottom up since that's how the emails were actually sent.
----- Original Message -----
From: James Hunt
To: 'Mauricio '
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 9:46 AM
Subject: RE: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
Thank you for the quick reply. I respect an individual that sticks to
their morals. Take care.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mauricio [mailto:mauricio@xxxx.com%5D
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:51 PM
> To: James Hunt
> Subject: Re: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
>
>
> James
>
> Thank you for taking the time to look at my resume and to send me the
> description for this job. Unfortunately, being an advocate of open source,
> it would be against my morals to work for the Anti-Christ. But I do
> appreciate you having taken the time to email me.
>
> Regards,
> Mauricio
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James Hunt
> To:
> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:15 PM
> Subject: UNIX Opportunities at Microsoft - WebTV
>
>
> > Hi Mauricio,
> >
> > I am interested in your background for our full-time UNIX/Solaris sys.
> admin
> > position at Mircosoft.
> >
> > This position is within the Network Operations Center of our WebTV
> division
> > which is a 100% Solaris shop, supporting more than 1 million
subscribers.
> > We are located at the brand new Microsoft Silicon Valley Campus in
> Mountain
> > View, along with several other Microsoft divisions (5 buildings).
> >
> > If you are interested, I would like to set up a time for us to speak via
> > phone. Simply reply to this message or call me at (650) 693 3542.
> >
> > I have also attached the job description. >
> >
> > Kindest Regards,
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > James Hunt
> > Microsoft - WebTV
> > Technical Recruiter
> > http://www.webtv.com/
> > http://www.microsoft.com/
---
Film at 11!
I'm not surprised to see such a response from ESR. I would at least want to discuss how much M$ is willing to pay. Being paid an astronomical sum to subvert your enemy from the inside would strike me as having significant job satisfaction potential.
Here is a small digest of the reply to Microsoft:
"WHAT? You don't know me? Why, I am famous. Yes I am so, so famous! You must be an idiot if you don't know my name! Why I am your worse nightmare! I said that in a very famous online flame war! I am the famous open source guy! I am up there with Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds. You have heard of them, but you never head of me? But I am famous! Your an idiot if you don't know who I am!"
What a pompous ass!
Can't we get some open source advocates with charisma? Maybe we could all pitch in and hire an out of work TV actor to be our open source spokesperson, instead of the usual juvenile socially disaffected geeks.
Microsoft says Dr. Kai-Fu Lee shouldn't go to work for Google, in part, because the Dr. has knowledge of Microsoft's proprietary recruiting strategies.
Maybe they mean that, after working at Microsoft, he knows what _not_ to do.
Merciful $DEITY. TOu claim a moonbat like RMS as your idol and believe that ESR having fun casts discredit on the open source community?
Render unto me a ****ing break.
Anyone who's read ESR's writings knows that this is definitely not the way he deals with the world in general. He's a professional to the core. This situation was simply too funny to pass up the opportunity.
I would have been much more restrained, myself, but then I can't afford to burn bridges. ESR's bridges with Microsoft were smoldering ash long before this happened.
Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
Steve Ballmer and Eric Raymond have the exact same personality.
Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me. Me.
Eric should go work for Microsoft. He fits right in.
This is my sig.
Microsoft Bob
Clippy
Outlook Express
Why would you want to make ESR more qualified to create products like those?
I'd rather work for Microsoft than have anything to do with someone who writes an e-mail like that and is proud of himself after doing so.
The more you know, the less you understand.
I've in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare since about 1997... wrote most of the theory and propaganda for [open source] and talked IBM and Wall Street and the Fortune 500 into buying in...I'd be just as determined to do in any other proprietary-software monopoly.
MS Exec: "Dear Lord, this guy is full of the worst concoction of bullshit and self-importance I've ever seen. We have to get him a position in marketing."
This year, I've gotten a couple of calls from Microsoft.
The first was from one of the managers who had gotten my resumé from a recruiter. We swapped a few e-mails and he sent me the "e-mail interview." Since most of the questions were about Windows, I didn't bother to fill it out. I checked and discovered that I could find most of the answers on Google, but I felt that wouldn't really be a fair way to test my knowledge of Windows--which is essentially nil--and I figured that when I told them that I used Google to answer all the questions, they'd probably not be interested anyway so it would be a waste of time to even reply.
About six months later, I got a call from one of the recruiters at Microsoft. I chatted with him a bit on the phone and discovered that they had found my resumé on-line and that it had appropriate keywords (Network, Kernel, Security, etc.). Essentially, they're looking for people with kernel experience. The fact that my experience is as a Macintosh developer seemed secondary to having the skills and interest in working on kernel programming.
I was polite and told him that I didn't think I'd be a good match because I'm not all that interested in moving to the Pacific Northwest to work on the Windows kernel. I thanked him for the call and said to keep me in mind if anything opens up in the Mac Business Unit.
But the recruiter was a pretty nice guy. He said that he'd gotten lots of calls from people who told him to fuck off and die. Personally, I think that's rude. Even if you hate Microsoft, a simple "Sorry, not interested" would be much better. Act like a jerk now and all you've done is indelibly etched yourself into his mind. Not to mention that recruiters talk to each other. Send back a rude e-mail and he shows it to some friends and they remember the name, too. In ten years, when Microsoft is bankrupt and destroyed and this recruiter or one of his friends is working for a really cool Linux company, how far do you think your resumé is going to get?
I agree that, in the case of Eric Raymond, somebody must have been having a spot of fun with the recruiter. But, as the saying goes, it never hurts to ask. Maybe Eric would be interested in coming to Microsoft and showing them how to do it right.
Really, the guy is a freaking liability. The only things he can say now is worthless flamebait, and he hasn't made a positive contribution to F/OSS for an age. If he takes the Microsoft job, he might get Microsoft to understand free software a bit better, or he might just drive a few microsoft guys insane. We can't lose!
It isn't a matter of burning bridges. It's a matter of ESR being (for better or worse, to whatever degree) a public voice for the OS community.
He is putting himself forward as an evangelist, a mouthpiece, and he should know better than to behave like a whack-job.
I can very easily see ways that companies such as MS could spin this to make the OS community look like a bunch of loons. "Do you really want to trust your business to a guy who goes off like (hands out letter) this to something like a form letter from a recruiter? He can't control himself - and he's the best they've got!" (Not true, but how many suits know that?)
In short, if you want to claim to be a leader of something, then you give up the right to act like an asshole unless it is strategically beneficial to those you claim to represent. This was not. This was pure ego on ERS's part.
Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
After reading this, it is not difficult to understand why Open Source is not treated seriously. That ESR was offered a job at Microsoft is inherently interesting and amusing; his (public) reply makes him sound like a 14 year old boy trying to impress his friends with false stories of sexual prowess.
Very old rule: never say "no" - just quote an astronomical price to the people you don't want to work for. Who knows? They might say "yes" and you'll become really rich or powerful.
I've been approached by Microsoft a few times. My answer is always the same: I'll work for them if I get the authority to prevent any/all product from shipping if the product does anything with or to the Internet that isn't standards compliant. No more "embrace and extend." No more proprietary protocols and file formats.
They usually smile and walk away after that.
A few years ago I got an interview with Microsoft and on the whole it very interesting. They flew me out to Redmond and footed the bill for everything. I didn't get the job, but I did meet some interesting people and on the whole had a good time. Next time ESR, go talk to them first and then refuse. Freebies don't pop up everyday you know! ;)
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
That was just a little probing. After that he'd have to do a couple phone interviews, and after phone interviews (if he passes them) he'd have to go through a six-hour MS interview gauntlet.
Job offer comes if you successfully complete a six-hour interview, and he'd probably be rejected during phone interview without further consideration. I seriously envy the guy. He thinks so much about himself. Humility be damned.
Various software companies try to discredit the open source movement by stating that the movement is made up of juvenile, unprofessional, irresponsible individuals. By responding in the manner that he did, Eric only propogates this incorrect stereotype.
I'm dissapointed he didn't take the job. Somehow I'm convinced this would be a good thing for open source.
It was a completly disrespectfull answer.
I have the impression ESR is linux own open sourced version of FUD.
Steve Balmer: "Please tell me you didn't try to recruit Eric Raymond."
Mike Walters: "It was Eric Raymond."
Steve Balmer does his Bobby Knight imitation.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
Pretty please?
With so many 3 and 4-digit uids, Your Honorable Sirs must be white of hair and wise of head, so can you all tell me why are you bashis His Honorable Gunman ESR?
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
I met ESR in Hawaii. He was on his way back from a conference in Japan. He claimed that Japanese women found him irresistable, which I found kind of amusing. He's quite a character and a lot of fun to bar hop with, but he's an easy target to poke fun at, as is anyone who thinks very highly of themselves. Many old timers think he's all talk and no action, but there's no denying that he did quite a bit to popularize Linux early on.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
And a pretty funny one, too! If all it takes to get Eric's knickers in a knot is getting a form letter from a company recuiter (which he calls a "job offer"--makes you wonder how inflated the rest of his claims are!), then this is much too easy!
I suspect he'll start getting lots of calls from every fast-food joint and Starbucks around the country! And he'll be equally mad that *they've* never heard of him!
Best Buy can have you arrested
... is to tie up as many open source people under non-compete agreements as they (MSFT) can. Not only can they (open source people) not contribute while working for Microsoft, they can't contribute thereafter, either. And that's for contributions to either OSS or Google (kill two birds with one hire).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars