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CNET's HDTV World
xerid writes "CNET.com has a collection of articles and videos on HDTV and related technologies. It looks like a good starting point for anyone interested in buying an HDTV in the near future. They also include Editors' Top HDTV picks. For top flat-panel HDTV plasma: Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY." From their Ultimate TV Buying Guide: "Since the first HDTVs appeared in 1998, high-definition television has been on the mind of every TV buyer. The big question is whether now is the time to pay a few hundred to a few thousand dollars more and take the plunge on an HDTV set. We can't answer that question for you, but we can provide some basic information that may help you decide."
Once you watch a football game in HDTV, you can't watch it any other way.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
So how much for a HDTV projector? Shouldn't that be a bit cheaper, and ultimately a better buy?
All rites reversed 2010
Huh? Really? HDTV didn't spring to mind at all when about a year ago the hand-down TV from my parents died. Well, I still wanted a TV at my place and these were the criteria:
In the end, I bought a CRT 83cm 16:9 "flat" screen for about 900€. The thing weights over 80kg, but I don't move it every day, do I? I understand that these days, such a TV is even less expensive because they're pushing Plasma and LCD screens.
In my eyes price/quality of a good CRT cannot be beaten by the newer technologies (yet). Of course, I could just as well not have bought a TV, because if I use it once a week it'll be a lot.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Something I've noticed about HDTV is that you almost have to look at the screen from a distance to see the most quality difference.
I hereby postulate: For every mod point you have, your IQ drops by 10.
I should RTFA before I post.
I should promptly get rid of my mod points and reclaim my IQ.
All rites reversed 2010
so much for news... anyway I think the next big thing will be 'real' dlp (digital light projection) sets. The limited but increasing number of theater ones can produce trillions of colors, and they can change color around 1000 times a second. For the consumer these days, one can only get a single chip system that uses a weird color wheel to translate grayscale into color. It looks good, but it kind of reminds me of those sets before color came around that came with cellophane color screens. Also, there is a weird rainbow effect sometimes with fast moving images. TI, the makers of the chip, has a pretty neat demo on their site. Essentially, the chip is just an array of millions of tiny mirrors that are capable of being toggled on or off quite fast. In 1 chip systems, which are avaliable from mitsubishi and some others, the grayscale deal is used. In 'real' three chip systems, each chip gets a primary color all to itself. The more time per second each mirror is 'on', the more of that color will appear in each pixel, = really good image. check it out.
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the frumious Bandersnatch.
I have a 22" monitor capable of 1,920x1,080 (1080p) which cost me around 300 , a HDTV tuner card is around 150 . I already have a computer that has PCI slots .. Seems like a far cheaper option at the moment for those who have computers .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Of course, it was all worthwhile to get every game my hometown Redskins play on TV every week without having to drive to a bar and spend 3.5 hours sitting on an uncomfortable chair. I was just frustrated last week when I couldn't get HDTV for their Monday Night Football game versus the Cowboys. I also won't be able to get their December 12th game against the Cardinals because the game will be blacked out.
Anyway, this is probably the least audience appropriate comment ever written on Slashdot; feel free to moderate me down. If it makes you feel better, I sometimes ramble like this to football loving meatheads about the wonders of open source software.
There is no comparison.
Sports in regular definition looks like garbage.
I watched the Super Bowl 2 years ago on a friend's TV in HD. It ruined me. I couldn't watch non-HD ever again.
-Michael
Threshold RPG
If we're talking about value, why couldn't they take a look at some of the 30" CRTs that are out there from Samsung, Toshiba, Panasonic, etc.? They manage to get sets out there for well under $1,000. And, again, the complete omission of CRT RPTVs from their Editor's Choice list leaves out a lot of VERY good-looking sets (my parents' 57" Hitachi puts on a NICE show) that give more screen size bang for the buck.
I know flat-panel sets are cool, much easier to move around, and much easier to locate within a room, but it seems like a lot of folks have blinders on and assume that these are the only HDTV-ready sets on the market. This contributes to the notion that HDTV is still super-expensive. When you can get a Samsung 26" 16:9 CRT with HDMI input and an integrated HDTV receiver for $600 at retail, that's just not the case...
Time for a HDTV camcorder!
D UCTS/HDR-HC1/ :D
I picked me up one of the Sony's new HDR-HC1 HDV camcorders and holy shit it rules.
http://www.sony.jp/products/Consumer/handycam/PRO
The video quality is awesome, native resolution being 1440x1080i with nonsquare pixels,
and even though its only 1 CMOS imaging sensor (as opposed to 3CCD in the $4000 HDR-FX1), it still looks damn good. For $1500 you can't go wrong
BTW, while the plasma screen linked in teh article isn't all that "bad", consider the fact that most low-priced plasma "HDTV-ready" displays are hardly even "HD" to begin with. Pay close attention to the panel resolution, as some plasmas can be as low as 480 horizontal lines of resolution (definitely not HD) while claiming to be HD-ready (including component input and having a hardware scaler).
The panel in the article is 1024x768 rectangular pixels, so it somewhat passes the "HD" requirements, though barely.
But I'm having a bit of trouble finding the parts of the articles where they say just how little, if any, Digital Rights Management are built into these televisions.
That would be one of the key factors to which HDTV to buy, for any geek, I would think.
His name is Robert Paulsen...
I noticed the LCD TV claimed to have a 1000:1 contrast ratio. The picture didn't look any better than last time I looked at LCD TVs, but back then they only claimed 400:1 ratios. Did they just start lying, or what? Do any LCD TVs out there actually have a decent black level and actual good contrast ratio, or is the tech just not there yet?
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Just throw out your TV and do something better with your time. And believe me, everything is better than watching those horrible reality shows, sitcoms with predictable jokes, news that makes you feel there are terrorists living in your basement, and soaps that seem to be designed to to make you stupid.
Really, TV is an insult to your intelligence. I'm boycotting them since 2004.
"It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
HDTV offer wonderfull performance when viewing DVD. But I doubt whether it is of much use with todays regular tv broadcasts.
Where are the options for smaller, cheaper sets? I'm a poor college student who lives in a small apartment. Sure, an LCD set would work best, but that's not in my budget. If I could get a small CRT set with HDTV support, it would surely make me more inclined to subscribe to HDTV service, helping spur adoption. I would also be able to appreciate all the HD features on the nextgen consoles, even if I don't have a super crazy AV setup.
I just got one and its really cool. No static in the receiption (because of error correction?) and no paying a monthly fee.
The hard part was finding the product at a reasonable price, with reasonable shipping (I live in Hawaii) from a respectable source. I had read numerous accounts of ppl who tried to order their Plasma TV from sites that advertised lower prices only to have "problems" with their oder, requiring them to call customer support, at which time they would be pressured into buying a different/bigger product or buying accessories.
Indeed this is what happened to me. I placed an order with LCDTVS.com and recieved a message saying "There was a problem with your credit card." . I immediately canceled the order and decided to bite the bullet on a higher price and get it from Amazon.com ... Well I guess they farmed it out to TigerDirect.com which turned out great for me, because for whatever reason, the shipping, which was guessed to be at around $300, ended up being only $78 vs the $430 that LCDTVs was going to charge... So even though I paid more for the TV, I saved about $100 on the total expense.
Another hard part was worrying if I had chosen the wrong time to buy...The *7UY is an older model. I wasn't able to verify if an *8UY was on its way, but I got freaked out because the tiger direct page for my product was "page not available" right after I bought mine.
TD didn't have a problem with the credit card, but they did mess up the order tracking, so I never knew for sure where my TV was.
Also it took a month to arrive, so the anticipation was killing me!
It was a lot of stress but like I said, I could not be happier with the product.
-D
Cube On! (http://stores.ebay.com/PuzzleProz)
Anybody know of a decent stand-alone Over-The-Air receiver that will get DTV and pipe it to a normal television set? This is really for the benefit of my relatives, who just upgraded a thirty year old Montgomery Ward television set (!) to a Toshiba 35" screen that accepts only conventional signals. Because they get terrible reception (no cable), I'd like to get them a receiver for Christmas.
I've been searching around the Internet, and the only ones I can find are a Samsung SIR-T451 (around $214) and the US Digital HDTV tuner from WalMart (about $200). However, the reviews from users seem to indicate that these products are flakey over time and will stop working.
Does anybody have experience with these?
Is there anything cheaper?
Is there anything better?
Actually, no. I have replaced a dead TV since 1998, and HDTV has *never* been on my mind. 90% of what is on TV is crap (and I'm a Brit, so I guess if I was in the US then that would be 98%) so I've no desire to pay a shed load of money for the latest techno toy.
Can I recommend psychiatric councelling as a cheaper and longer lasting alternative?
- No ghosting
- No snow
- Much lower signal strength requirements for good reception (get more channels sufficiently)
- More channels. Metro stations all, at a minimum, simulcast in digital. Some, such as PBS, broadcast different programming on their several digital sub channels.
- You can add the HD monitor later when they get cheaper or plug your computer monitor in for special occasions (if you make sure connectors are compatible.)
Remember, this is over the airwaves, free, no cable fees, nada. Just like your regular TV set but high quality signal (Though I'll say nothing about quality of programming.)Tuner at WalMart's for $200.
I purchased the Westinghouse LVM-37w1 a few months back from Best Buy for the then-low price of $1850 (I also got 18-months same-as-cash and $120 in gift certificates).
Most slashdotters would probably be surprised to find out that connecting their PC using the RBG or DVI inputs of most HDTVs isn't all it's cracked up to be. I probably spent a year or so researching my next television and something I learned (by visiting AV Science forums) was that using the analog input on most TVs limits you to to a 4:3 resolution of 1024 x 768 or 1280 x 1024. Using DVI was hit and miss: Depending on the make and model of the television, you'd either get a blank screen or be limited to 4:3 resolutions.
There didn't seem to be a television that was completely PC-friendly. Samsung DLPs seemed to be the closest to plug-and-play as you could get. You had to change some settings on the TV and mess around with your display drivers, but you could make full use of every pixel on the screen. The same couldn't be said with most other HDTVs on the market.
Until I'd come across this thread.
Anyway, when I went to check the Westy out it was next to a 37" Sharp AQUOS which is considered by many to be "the best" in it's category. But you know what? After I spent 40 minutes twiddling around with the settings on both televisions I came to the conclusion that while the Sharp had the better picture quality, it wasn't $2000 better. (The 37" Sharp was being sold at $4000 at the time.) There were other factors as well. The native resolution of the Sharp was 1366 x 768 (whereas the Westinghouse runs at 1920 x 1080) and from what I've read at the AVSForums, all the Sharp LCDs are unable to be used as PC monitors without purchasing a Gefen HDCP compliant DVI switch which "fixes" the EDID data coming from the display.
As a television, the "Westy" doesn't have the best picture quality I've seen. (It's black-levels could be better.) But it's not bad, either. As a PC monitor, it's untouchable. It's useful to have so much screen real-estate for coding. And for gaming? Well, Half-Life 2 at 1920 x 1080 is incredible.
Note: The westy doesn't have a tuner (HD or otherwise), hence why it's labeled as a "Video Monitor".
The only problem I have with football in HD is the fairly uniform green field seems to cause problems with the compression algorithm. You get large blocks where it trys to make the field the exact same color green. But with that being said, watching football (or anything) in HD is always much better than standard analog broadcasts or even SD digital broadcasts.
Does anyone know of a way to build a DVR for HDTV yet?
Something to plug into the cable box and get HDTV cable piped over to your computer's HDD in HD quality.
I have a 44" Mitsubishi rear-projection CRT set in my workroom. The picture is good, the set didn't cost too much, but it's really bulky and overly large for my room. Plus it's a hassle keeping the convergence adjusted. Plus there's the worry about "burn-in" when watching too much 4:3 aspect ratio material. And it's necessary to turn out the room lights before it can look really good.
Recently we got a new Mitsubishi LT-3050 for the living room, a 30-inch LCD panel. Man, I've been blown away by this set! I started to adjust it using my AV test DVDs and color filters -- but all the adjustments were already dead on the money, as it came from the factory. No "torch mode" like CRTs usually have, there wasn't even any red push in the color decoder. I've never seen that before, never imagined I'd see that. It just plain looks better that my old set, and HD material looks stunning.
Somebody complained that LCD panels have crummy black level, it makes them look washed out. That is true if you try to dim the lights in your room the way you would with any conventional CRT-based set. The LCD is so bright, it looks great in a normally lighted room, in the daytime. Then the black level is not a problem, glare and reflections aren't a problem. You have to take a completely different mindset, you actually want the room lit up, not darkened like a movie theater.
Having said all that. . . I'm not thrilled with HDTV in general. Yes it looks fabulous when everything comes together -- when you actually get some HD content showing, and it hasn't been compressed to Hell and back. But there are still no HD videodiscs (and when they arrive, they'll have crazy DRM). HD channels on the satellite are very limited, and they all cost extra. HD broadcasts over-the-air are often messed up in one way or another. And there's still not a whole lot of good stuff to watch on TV, going to high def doesn't really solve that age-old problem.
The transition to HD has gone a lot slower than I hoped and expected, and it's really been a disappointment so far. I think the lack of HD videodiscs is the worst, but the whole thing is just going badly.
you read the currant bun too much matey.
/Freeview set top box with 40 FREE channels
you sound like a tabloid idiotorial column.
hopefully you are being ironic.
"720 lines" thats why hdtv is such a ciritical prioroty to our yankee NTSC hating brothers
and why the bbc decided to fit more channels into their digital bandwidth than opt for one or two HD channels which noe one would benfit from
as no one has the 1080 tv sets and it was hard enough persuading people to shell out just for a 50 quid DTV
I'm confused. I thought HDCP (High Definition Content Protection) was evil, as in DRM. These three definitely have HDCP:
Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY - has HDCP
Westinghouse LVM-37W1 - has HDCP
InFocus 7205 - has HDCP
These I'm not sure about.
Samsung LT-P326W - not sure
Sony KD-34XBR960 - not sure
Samsung HL-P5085W - not sure
Hitachi 50VS810 - not sure
The review for the Westinghouse LVM-37W1 is the only one that mentions HDCP and it lists it as a feature.
Hmm, I'm not sure I would trust these reviews. They don't seem to consider those issues that might be important to your typical slashdot nerd.
Evolution is a fact. Darwinism is a joke.
Sold TV's for twenty years. NEVER saw a set with a STORE DEMO MODE. Sure we ran the best source we could on all the TV's, but there is no STORE DEMO MODE setting on ANY TV I ever saw. Care to elaborate? Enjoy.
This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway This is the road to hell
I have the Panasonic TH-42PHD7UY (i.e., the one CNET calls its top pick) and I bought it from TigerDirect.com. This set is so great. I have zero complaints. Calibrated really nicely out of the box. Good on-screen menus. Swappable input bays (hell ya!--need three DVI inputs? Need two component and one HDMI? Just buy 'em for about a hundred bucks each and slot them in!) No crummy built-in speakers (although you can buy OEM accessory speakers, if you like). Nice clean design. And the best part is the price: a little over two grand for a 42" plasma that looks better than any other I've seen anywhere. Thanks Panasonic and TigerDirect!
I think the issue with DRM primarily applies for HD-DVD and Blu-Ray high-definition DVD formats, where (for obvious reasons) copy protection is mandatory.
As such, when you get the new 1920x1080 progressive scan rear-projection TV's, make sure they have HDMI inputs (which support DRM controls), because I expect that's how HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will connect to TV's at full resolution.
We got the predecessor to that model, the TH-50PHD6UY, and we've been running it for almost two years now. It's every bit as amazing as the day we plugged it in and I have no gripes with the picture quality or design (from the styling to the remote and on-screen menus). While I'm not in the position to provide results of long-term testing across many different models, I can emphasize that I'm a visual junkie and the Panasonic has been everything I expected.
I'm not sure how many other brands have slots for expansion, but this one does. You can add new interface boards or swap existing ones for another. Quite sweet.
My HD screen is very nice for watching DVD movies (yes, I know they aren't ... but filling a big 16:9 ratio screen, they still look pretty
really "HD"
cool). But there doesn't seem to be much HD content on TV that I actually
would watch. I'm not a football/baseball fan, so that isn't a draw. I
periodically take a look at the listings for the local channels, but many of
there shows are not in HD, and 20 minutes of commercials/hr just drives me
nuts).
For about half the price of a Sharp. I got a 37" LCD from syntax olevia after reading good reviews everywhere. I found it on the web for $1575 including shipping. Highly recommended.
Radioshack has a close-out tuner on sale for $89, a lot of stores are out so call around before you drive.
Also, I've used the Samsung SIR-T451 and it does a bad job cropping the 16:9 signal to 4:3, it crops more than needed so everything looks streched. Its fine when used on a 16:9 set. The Radioshack model does a very good job cropping. Almost all stations send a 16:9 signal and then use black bars on the side when showing 4:3 so you need a box that crops well.
Overcompression causes ugly pixelization and destroys the HDTV experience. Compression is the snake in the garden of HD-Eden.
On the 65" screen, non-HDTV programs have pixels the size of your thumb, and you have to take off your glasses to avoid nausea. Even that won't help with widescreen DVDs that look like Leisure-Suit Larry.
Bad lipsynch. You can either watch the beautiful opera muted, or listen to it with eyes closed.
I'm with DirecTV.
If you buy a non-HDTV you will get a box that will be obsolete long before it's likely to wear out--soon you won't be able to use it without a converter box. All televisions sold after December 31, 2006 must be sold with digital tuners, and broadcasters are to stop airing analog content Jan 31, 2007. Unless you pay next to nothing for an analog box, it no longer makes sense to buy anything other than HDTV.
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Hmmmm. I wonder why the Best Buy salesman didn't mention that to me when I was in his store last week?
For more information on the planned changeover, (See
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pbcs.dll/articl
NR
Cool! I can't wait to see the pimples on your girlfriend's arse!
You WILL be putting that new camera to its highest use, won't you?
You'd think that scifi channel would be a natural to have an HD channel. I think I'll be holding off on HD until scifi channel is broadcast in HD. Really the HD selection is very slim at this point.
The ones that are HD are brilliant and there could be some real opportunity for independent channels to provide more hd content, but really sports and the premium movie channels are the only good reasons to get hd at this point. Still, far too many channels either have no HD equivalent or they only have full hd during prime time.
Content is a real issue. Seems like the stations and cable companies should have the money and bandwidth to move over to HD, but maybe their delay in providing more HD content is a concerted one to try and rest more concessions from Congress and the manufacturers like HDMI and the broadcast flag.
After playing with it some, I am annoyed at some of the UI behaviors but overall, it is a great TV.
But, even more interesting is that the manual has the GPL printed in it along with references to the AM Linux Project which ported Linux to the AM microcontroller.
This got me thinking: Maybe this TV can be hacked and new code installed into it. After all, it does have a nice SD slot - now all we need to do is find out if there is a back-door into the box for updates...
Anyway, nice to see that the true consumer industry (TVs are about as consumer as you can get) are making good use of OSS. I wonder if they would even be willing to help enable the hacking such that more/better UI features could be implemented by others...
I am in the market for 2 different kinds of TVs. Sadly, no manufacturer seems to be making them, yet. Here are the requirements:
TV 1:
TV 2:
So far it seems everything is going to big screen TVs. But these don't work in small rooms (due to viewing distance necessity) and they sure aren't portable. Another issue is the over-the-air tuner (ATSC). More and more manufacturers are making tuner-less TVs (since you need an external box for cable or satellite, they figure the tuner is wasted cost), expecting those who do want over-the-air TV to get a separate set-top-box for that. But a separate box is not good for a portable TV.
The first TV needs a 2nd digital video input because I don't want to be changing cables or have to use an expensive HDMI/DVI switch box to go between 2 input sources (OTA and HD-DVD).
now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
All those TVs have HDCP, because all HDTVs made in the last year have it.
I hate to say this, but HDCP in TVs is good. Consider the two possible cases:
If your TV does not support HDCP, then you can watch "legacy" content, but no "new" (HD-DVD/Blu-ray) content.
If your TV supports HDCP, you can watch everything.
Thanks. I see what you are talking about; I will check this out. If this works, goodbye cable!
It seems strange that Samsung would not get it right. Some analog televisions have controls that will enable the user to stretch their picture horizontally and vertically; maybe that is all the adjustment needed, independent of the DTV receiver used?
Just a general comment: The fact that OTA models seem to cease manufacturing fairly rapidly (and will no longer be offered for sale) or go on clearance seems a bit unnerving; I wonder if it is a reflection of the quality (or lack thereof) of the manufacturing, or is it just low demand? To my mind, Samsung is a more widely known and reputable brand name than what RadioShack is selling, which is the only reason I'd be reluctant to buy from RadioShack. Unless RadioShack is committed to providing these over the long haul...
Thanks again for the response.
I could care less about watching everything in HD. But I bought a Sony 27" CRT HD TV so that I can finally watch existing TV without those very visible horizontal scan lines. I enjoy watching cable premium movies that way, which eliminate ghosting, snow, etc., and now HD line doubling giving me a much cleaner picture without those distracting lines.
.02.
I have watched HD baseball and sure, it's great to see players' whiskers. And the detail that shows up in the bleachers. But ho hum.
I'm in no rush. I think more people feel that way than most of us care to admit. I do not think people are anxiously awaiting more mainstream HDTV. I believe that is hype, by the people who have a financial interest in its success.
Many people still think of DVD's as new technology.
Anyway, my
Yup, Europe is pretty much not up to date at all on HDTV. I don't really see the point in having HDTV. Many Europeans have a 100Hz 16:9 screen, and seem to be happy with that. I am happy with that. ;-)
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Just have to rant here. I recently purchased a 60" rear-projection LCD. I have had a pretty nice audio setup for awhile but have been waiting for prices to come down on HD TVs. Why do manufacturers insist on hanging speakers on a 60" TV? Who's buying a TV this big w/o having a stereo hooked up to it? And to make it worse, the speakers aren't removeable! There's one huge piece of silver plastic that goes all the way around the screen.
C /ref=dp_product-image-only_0/104-1830250-5316732?_ encoding=UTF8&n=172282&s=electronics
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B00067AY1
The big silver "ears" are the speakers. Makes an already huge item take up even more space in my living room. I know, it's a big TV, but with just the black border around the screen it wouldn't dominate the room quite so much. I've threatened to pull out the Dremel but my wife won't let me.
I've heard of people using the TV's speakers as a center channel but then you get into all sorts of issues w/ using different types of speakers.
I know plasmas don't have speakers but couldn't afford a large plasma. There's just no reason I can think of for someone needing built-in speakers on a TV of this size. Grr...