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Early AJAX Office Applications
prostoalex writes "Perhaps many, who viewed Zimbra presentation from yesterday, thought about other office-related applications they would like to see moved to the Web. Richard McManus on ZDNet provides a list of the currently available AJAX apps. Did you know there was AJAX word processor, AJAX spreadsheet, AJAX calendar, AJAX presentation-building software, AJAX e-mail client, AJAX note-taking software and some other interesting applications, which, deployed on your local server, do not need installation and "just work" in a browser window?"
...does it keep my kitchen clean?
I'm still waiting for an AJAX-based browser. Just think about it! The ability to use a browser without having to install it! You just browse on over to the site!
Remember java applets?! They were suppose to do these kind of things...
I really like the way that Web apps are starting to make a comeback.
... but so was flying to the moon !!
Yes, it's true that there will always be problems with compatibility in browsers,
but at the end of the day, to make the underlying OS insignificant, it makes the adoption of alternate OS's become easier.
Who knows, maybe the pressure will cause other proprietary companies to start looking at the way they
do business ? A pipe dream now
Webservices were going to rule the computing world. You'd download apps as you needed them from vendors, then they would automatically bill you for the rental, but only for the time spent using the actual product.
That idea died a horrible death, despite Microsoft's best efforts to make the Network the Computer.
Now webservices are back, but instead of building miniature application control building blocks, the entire application interface is downloaded to your browser. Everything immediate runs client-side and anything that needs a backend is sent upstream to the server. No more trying to keep a network connection alive between the client PC and the network server. Everything can be kept very asynchronous.
It's no surprise that this is the way things are evolving. Even the first CGI programs foretold this type of usage pattern. You'd get an interface on the client side and the heavy processing would be done on the server. But now with faster connections and the ability to run more stuff on the client side, a lot of processing can be and has been pushed off the server and onto the client browser.
It's very interesting, and quite a pleasant break from the barrage of boring sysadmin-specific stories here.
Jesus saved me from my past. He can save you as well.
Stop with the acronyms for goodness sakes.
AJAX is a floor cleaning product.
I'm sorry to say this, but there are too many people who think something is cool because it uses the latest hip technology. Nobody cares that it is AJAX, they just care that it works well and does what they want.
The sooner OSS and other people writing software out there realise this the better.
Rant over
..hello GoogleOS! Platfrom-independent, all online, all the applications you need. Who cares if it's viewed out of IE?
Great, so now the network being down means I can get absolutely no work done.
I'd like this if they sold $20 dumb terminals to use it, but I paid a lot of money for a computer that can run applications locally without constantly going to the network.
And just in case they mentioned that that's not a concern in one of those 40 linked pages, no, I didn't read all the articles, so feel free to yell at me now.
There's also an Open Source "Todo Lists" application called Tudu Lists.
You can check it out on SourceForge : http://tudu.sourceforge.net.
And you can use the live site : http://tudu.ess.ch.
Everything's free and Open Source (GPL), so you can check out how it works.
People have been doing this stuff using the same methodology since < 2003 and have been dealing with the pros and cons eversince. Convinsing PMs that the technology has potential was a lot of trouble then, but since the term AJAX was coined the situation has become the opposite; we are now trying to point out the pitfalls.
The power of buzzwords in people's minds is astonishing. Guess our brain is too dependent on abstraction/handles.
S5 is not an AJAX app. It uses plain JavaScript and some CSS. Nothing like XMLHttpRequest is used in S5. To create an S5 presentation, one needs only text editor. The javascript and CSS is only for the presentation and has nothing to do with the actual slide creation process.
--- Baishampayan Ghose b.ghose gmail com
Here's another example of an AJaX e-mail client written using the Echo2 Web Framework. This one is very much no frills (it's an example app for Echo2) but it does include complete MPL/LGPL/GPL source.
My Java tip for the near future is Echo2 or something like it. Sophisticated AJAX without writing a line of HTML or JavaScript.
The Ajax apps all look extremely impressive, but I do believe inconsistent UI will eventually plateau the adoption. Developers love to play the artist when there's a clean slate, and everyone will have their own set of icons and widgets.
Developers need to understand that once you're over 25 years old, you don't care to learn brand new interfaces all over again. The closer it looks to something familiar (your Windows/Mac OS UI), the better. For God's sake, if it doesn't look at Windows, at least make the metaphors intuitive.
My recent pet peeve is tiny little icons, just for the sake of tiny little icons. I'm familiar with the standard "Open", "Save", "Copy", "Cut", "Paste", and "Print" icons. That saves real estate over text, and saves me time.
However, With monitors getting bigger and bigger, unique icons will NO LONGER OFFER THE SAME BENEFIT. I'm not going to hover my mouse pointer over every single 8-pixel-by-8-pixel icon you have, just to forget it the next time around because you lined up 50 of them on the toolbar like lucky charms. If there's room for text, and if that saves time, put the text in!
Things where one user needs to access an application from many locations (email for example), or where a group of distributed users need have instant access to shared information (calendar, notes) .. great idea to have a remotely hosted application or data store.
.. I'm not sure of course, but I rather doubt the capability of a javascript based spreadsheet. It might be ok for holding a small set of data and a handful of equations, but I wouldn't much like to view the last 10 years of accounts of a medium sized company with one. It'd be considerably slower than a properly compiled and optimized application.
But for word processing? Spreadsheets? That seems like a waste of bandwidth, and an unnecessary security risk. I've been working remotely for the last 2 years (300 miles from the company office). I've never encountered a situation where a remote service text editor would be preferable to a local app. Given my flaky internet connection that would really be a very bad thing. Whatsmore
http://twitter.com/onion2k
Check out jotlive.com
This is an awesome collaboration tool. If anyone has some insights on how this works (technically), I'd appreciate it.
I was under the impression that you can only poll from client to server, not the reverse, yet this application shows instant change (so no 10 sec continuous polling)
Having only just managed to ween my co-workers off a ton of needless javascript in their applications 'improvements' in web technologies such as AJAX are a concern to me. Having read all about 'Web 2.0' technologies, I'm left to wonder where the business case for all this while STILL maintaining standards in accessibility comes from?
Please note: accessibility means equal access for ALL, it is not a term to differentiate disabled internet users from their able-bodied peers.
So now we have we have to use libraries that work for IE and every other browser separately, we then have rewrite it all for people using accessibility aids that often use scraping techniques to get content from the page and wont update unless the page refreshes, so we have to write a legacy version anyway (of course, you can make the call that the chance of getting sued is low enough not to bother).
Before people say we have to write a ton of code to account for different browsers and accessibility combinations, I work supplying web apps to public sector education bodies and none of my applications require wild cul-de-sacs of code for special scenarios.
We have only just started mastering equal access for all in web applications as it is, the last thing we need is a new generation of web developers who think that "omg cool functionality kthx" > accessibility
Yes. For rather obvious security reasons, XMLHttpRequest is limited to making requests to the host the script originated from. Also it would be way slower than a normal web browser. Plus completely inaccessible, which is illegal in many places.
That falls apart when the browser that isn't the "latest and most popular" doesn't support the technologies your AJAX browser uses.
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Back when I started computers, we had dumb terminals with applications running on mainframes. I had no ability to write my own code; I had no right to execute CPU cycles for anything other than work. And nor could I, as CPU cycles were audited and 'billed' against each department.
And so we will return. The server based module of applictaion licencing will suit the likes of Microsoft enormously. They want a constant revenue stream, not just intermittent ( but huge ) income on new product releases.
More insidiously though, this move will start to erode our usgae 'rights' again . Little by little we will be discouraged from installing applications on our PC's.
There are good aspects to server hosted applications and data storage, but also some very bad ones.
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
The biggest disadvantage of ajax that I can see, is that it's written in javascript and there is no debugger available for the various web browsers (except Mozilla).
Developing a large application without a debugger is not fun.
Why not use flash? It seems to do everything that ajax can do, but it has a IDE and debugger available and there is the added advantage that it's cross platform (ajax requires that you write a seperate version for IE and Mozilla).
Everyone seems to be running around raving about AJAX applications. Why do you all think AJAX is so good? Really? It's cool if you need to update a webpage without reloading (and particularly for server-push), but why do I want server-push functionality in a word processor, spreadsheet, calendar, presentation-building software or note-taking software (note, I've taken e-mail client out of that list, as server push is actually useful there)?
Sure, if these were tools to allow multiple people to work on the same document simultaneously, but these all seem to share data only after it's been saved back to the server. As someone else pointed out, the presentation application doesn't even use AJAX!
Would people please stop using AJAX to mean "Really cool looking Javascript application"? If Javascript applications excite you, fine, you're welcome to them, but please get the terms right...
that Google will come out with it's Online GoogleOffice Suite here and eventually a Web Deployable OS with unstructured XML DB will soon be reality. Like I say, People will make lot's of Software, it's the impeccable timing of Google, that will make their products shine, be it Office products or others.
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
The problem with Java applets is they require too much to be installed on the client side. This has big security and performance implications
Security? XMLHttpRequest is very cool, but (albeit for reasons not the same as those you gave for Java), it's likely to fall off its pedestal very soon in the face of these security problems.
In short, assuming you have the functionality turned on (I assume there is a way to turn it off in present browsers, though I haven't checked), XMLHttpRequest breaks the assumption that web pages only record what you're doing when you "submit" a request (don't think this applies to Flash, but it's normally obvious when a flash app is being used).
In short, it's theoretically possible for a site to be receiving information about pretty much every action you carry out within a browser window, and practically *quite* possible (and likely) for less than trustworthy sites to be receiving information you'd rather they didn't (if you knew about it); I could go further, but the article pretty much explains it well.
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
It's nice because it allows you to do real-time client (etc.) searches asynchronously which allows you to get a ton done with only one real page load.
I've seen some decent commercial and free AJAX implementations as well, but outside of Google and Avalon, they seem more focused on "cool" than "useful".
Free sex is like a warm toilet seat.... feels good but makes you wonder who was there before you.
It might just be me -- and this might sound like a personal whinge -- but I am interested to here what other people have to say.
/. posts - the technology is nothing new and its just a silly acronym. But I digress. My biggest problem is that I like my major applications -- email, word processor, spreadsheet, html editor, whatever - to a seperate *unique* presence on the (*hides head in shame*) Windows task bar. It is so much easier to recognise the application on the taskbar when it has its own entry invariably with a unique icon, rather than just being one of possibly tens of browser windows. Invariably I end up loosing my web application in a jumble of other browser windows and/or tabs, or thinking its just another browser windows, accidently close it. Then there is always the problem of the browser crashing, often because I am also browsering, and thus loosing whatever important documents or email I also have open.
:) I'd much rather download a small executable that embeds a browser window within some sort of unique container (if that's the right terminology) that runs as a unique program, with its own task bar entry, and its own icon. So, for example, I could launch gmail.exe and it would have its own presence on the task bar even though it was essentially just gecko rending the gmail website. It could even extend functionality, allowing one to minimise it to tray and so forth.
I find these AJAX applications very impressive, even if - according to the endless
As I said, it may well just be me, but perhaps I'm not alone
Just my 0.02c worth.
Shut UP SHUT UP you're giving stupid people stupid ideas!
AJAX sounds like it will be a boon for naturally based web applications.
I don't see office applications as being naturally web based applications, they seem to be very natural living on my desktop. I can't see why I would need to be connected to write a paper or do my budget.
On the innocent side it just seems like a misdirected project.
On the sinister side it seems similar to e-books....another way to take away something I have come to take for granted as possessing.
My word processor may be old, but it is mine.
I can just see the bull shit now.
"Oh, you don't own the AJAX office suite, you were only renting the use of it. Since your lease is up you cannot use it to view your old work... unless you want to pay us more money"
AJAX is a floor cleaning product.
Actually, Ajax is the name of two warriors in the Trojan wars. The name was then misappropriated for a floor cleaning product (heroic cleaning?), but I suppose as you demonstrate, people these days don't know their classics anymore.
If the term "Ajax" becomes associated with a dynamic web display technology, I think that's a step up from floor cleaning.
How about an AJAX WYSIWYG Drag & Drop webpage layout / HTML editor? I don't care if it's compliant with all those buzzwords, but I do want to hit a page, drag GUI and JavaScript objects into it, drag them around, mark them up with styles and links, then save it. With authentication for the editor - everyone else sees it as a readonly regular webpage. With all the current HTML features, viewable in IE/Firefox/Safari/Opera. That feature should have been part of the first (or at least second) wave of the Web. Is it part of this AJAX wave?
--
make install -not war
If applications exist on the owner's server, and aren't installed and run locally, then how am I going to be able to pirate them?
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
This must be a new troll, I haven't seen it before.
... cmon even windows XP you can just gor RUN-compmgmt.msc , Run-devmgmt.msc and RUN-lusrmgr.msc ... In system preferences, though handy, needs to be brought upto standard ... and SHOKE HORROR ... maybe managing some other parts of the OS Thats the problem with closed souce, everyones beavering away at there little bit and no one is managing the big picture.
Im still finding thr Mac desktops lagging behind Windows IMHO (not starting a flamewar here) Finder cant seem to browse directories containing large numbers of files, Its Impossible to navigate the GUI mouseless unlike windows which can be ALt-Tab's, Shift-Tab'd etc. Really the most important part they need to fix is the system preferences
Hmm.... Definitely troll-ish, but not very reusable. 2/10.
Next!
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
"Did you know there was AJAX word processor, AJAX spreadsheet, AJAX calendar, AJAX presentation-building software, AJAX e-mail client, AJAX note-taking software and some other interesting applications, which, deployed on your local server, do not need installation and "just work" in a browser window?"
Let's see: word processor--didn't feel like signing up for an account. Spreadsheet--works in Firefox 1.0/Mac, but not Safari 1.3. Overall, has a long way to go--can't use arrow keys to move the active box in the grid, for example. And I doubt it's possible to recreate a zillion other useful features from a binary spreadsheet app, like dragging a cell's corner to fill lower rows. Calendar--wouldn't load at all in FF or Safari. Presentation--it's not AJAX. Email client--ha! instead of linking to Gmail, one of two programs that POPULARIZED AJAX (the other being google maps), the link leads to a nonexistant product from Yahoo. The note thing works but is pretty simple--feels like a bright student's DHTML project.
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Wow, Decaff, you're really working overtime to tell us what is theoretically possible with Java applets. Tell you what... How about you give a URL to *one* non-trivial applet that embodies everything you're talking about. Something like Google Maps, Flickr, etc.
- Like most Ajax apps, it must load in less than 1 second.
- It must not load with the awful gray square or gratuitous Sun/Java logos.
- It must run in the full page and handle window resizes well.
- It must use the browser's native widget set (show me good Tiger widgets if I'm running on OSX Tiger).
- It must not care what JVM it's running on. Write once run anywhere, you know. Don't force me to endure a 25 MB download just to run your Java applet.
Not hard right? Well, point us to one.
Nobody's doing it because, even though it's possible, it's just not worth the time! I wrote a proof of concept Java applet 6 months ago that embodied all of these requirements. I realized halfway through that I should have just used Ajax. Writing a decent Java applet required way too much manual effort.
- Scott
p.s. I recommend turning Java off in your browser. A number of evil websites use Java applets to evade popup blockers. Most people will never even discover that it isn't enabled.
I hope you didn't invest much time learning Java because it is going the way of the cuckoo.
Java is the most successful and widely used language in IT, and it's use is growing. You are confusing applets with Server side Java throughout your post. Saying 'Java is going the way of the cuckoo' is as dumb as saying 'the pentium is doomed' or 'no-one uses Windows'. (Actually, cuckoos are doing rather well - perhaps you meant Dodo?)
Java on the client side sucks - everyone knows it.
No. Just because you think that does not mean 'everyone knows it'. One of the most popular IDEs ever produced - Eclipse - is a client side Java app. Do you hear developers saying 'Eclipse sucks'? Of course not.
Thats why no one deploys Java client applications anymore.
Nonsense. You may be interested to know how widely used Java Web Start is - the answer is 'very widely'. Java Web Start is a technology for deploying client side apps.
Why didn't Google choose Java for maps.google.com?
Because they need a distributed API that doesn't need a download. Google use huge amounts of Java for other things on their servers.
Why didnt Microsoft for Virtual Earth?
Because Microsoft dropped use of cross-platform Java years ago!
Why didn't any major web app choose Java?
Most of them DO use Java, but on the server side.
For example, e-bay runs almost entirely on Java.
Answer:
- Crappy non-native look and feel
What non-native look and feel? Most applets use the native GUI!
- Slow start up (freezes the browser while Java initializes) and GUI responsiveness
When does this happen? Modern VMs can start up in a fraction of a second. What lack of responsiveness - it uses the native GUI!
- Large downloads required for computers that don't the right version of Java
Wrong. A moderate once-only download (not downloads).
Funny how Slashdotters are so keen for users to download tens of megabytes in order to switch browsers objects so strongly to a much smaller download to keep the JVM up to date!
Is there something about the word 'Java' that blocks intelligent thought processes? Why do I see so many posts which talk about Java as it was nearly a decade ago? I thought nerds were supposed to be up-to-date with IT developments.
Sun killed Java through stupidity.
Strange definition of 'killed', as Java is the most widely used development language.
What, the algorithms that NeXT used in their Display Postscript implementation that allowed lines to be nudged to the nearest pixel boundary to give a pixel-perfect zoomed display don't work anymore? Odd, they look really nice using GNUstep. OS X doesn't seem to have this problem either.
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