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Guild Wars Still In The Thick of Battle
1up.com has an interview with community relations manager Gaile Gray. They discuss changes since the launch, and how the company has acted to keep the player-base happy in a title with no fee to keep them grounded. From the article: "August's event showed us that increasing the rewards for PVP play was both necessary and wise. The feedback we received before the event provided us with a lot of guidance on what players wanted most. We reacted with a substantial boost to faction points and with special rewards for PVP accomplishments...and the players loved it. We're going to keep watching the gameplay progression and reward systems to ensure that both PVP players and cooperative players are adequately rewarded."
in the thick of farming is more like it....
they haven't offered *any* pay-expansions yet - all updates have been free - that's a good thing - except for the greenfarming.....
It still hasn't been tested by their expansion model, though. For the game to survive long term, they need to sell those expansions, and they need to keep doing it for years.
I'm skeptical whether that will work or not, but we'll see. I'm rooting for them, and not because I play the game (I don't), and not because I think this model is any better than the subscription model (I'm on the fence about that). I'm rooting them because I love MMOGs, live them, and anything that shakes up the MMOG paradigm is a good thing. The market has begun to stagnate as it moves closer and closer to Hollywood budgets.
This pricing model has the potential to allow more newcomers in the field, if it works. Not everyone is a MMOG nut like me, tossing out dollars for subscriptions without even thinking about it. I think a large part of the market is still scared of subscriptions. If this pricing model reaches those people, the whole industry benefits.
If the allmighty dollar is going to dominate this market just like it does everything else, anything that attracts more allmighty dollars is a good thing-- there's a higher chance some of it will reach a good developer.
We'll see.
My script don't crash! She crashes, you crashed her!
I like the way you base your comment on speculation, a lack of facts, and a wish to be flamebait.
In fact, considering that you apparantly don't even know that they haven't released ANY paid expansions yet, I think I'm going to have to assume that you haven't actually PvPed in the game at all, and therefore are pulling that out of your ass as well.
"Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me
It's the stated plan to make the game profitable. No speculation required.
How we know is more important than what we know.
You haven't played it, have you? It isn't just PvP, the non-PvP is quite good, and there aren't any paid expansions as of yet.
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
so people are "cheapskates" b/c they inherently like boring PvP games? then I guess counter-strike fits right in there... I bought GW about 3 weeks ago and I am enjoying it immensely. I can't afford another bill each month even if it is $15.00...
insurance, rent, electricity, water/sewer, gas (heat), gas (car), xbox live (cancelled).. food, etc, I'd say I'm pretty tapped out and don't find it a good idea to pay $50 for a game, then $15/month after that.. maybe if the game were free at first with the monthly fee it would work out for me, b/c inherently I lose interest after a few months, unless it's chrono trigger, then I play it for the 20th time
Wait until the paid expansion packs start, then decide if it's better not paying a subscription. Ultima Online has this model (and to a lesser extent, Everquest) and the result is that you're forced to buy the expansion pack otherwise you can't hang out with the friends you've made because they've already bought the expansion pack. It also means the people who refuse to buy the expansion packs quickly become disenfranchised and that makes them really pissed off, so they run around the non-expanded game griefing people.. so you end up buying the expansion pack to get away from them. But rather than learn from history and choose a game with your eyes open, people would rather read the payola reviews and interviews of Guild Wars and think the perfect, no-one pays, world can continue forever.
How we know is more important than what we know.
At the same time, superior vigor I believe ups your HP like 8 vs a major rune of vigor.
What I like about GW is that the "best" weapons/armor/etc while expensive, are not horribly overpowering vs the regular stuff.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Guild Wars= $50 retail price + price for expansions (say $45 at the most)
Random Subscription Game: = $50 retail price + $10-$15 per month subscription
Guild Wars would have to release about 4 expansions (give or take) per year to equal the amount of money you're paying for a subscription MMO.
Just a thought.
arl with a k - a blog of mine.
I can't type I have no hands
Yep, which means that players who wish to purchase only one expansion pack a year will have 3 opportunities per year to lose their some of their friends who want to purchase more expansion packs. That means every expansion pack will be met with hostility. Getting people to fork out for a subscription is hard enough without telling them there is no subscription and then hitting them with a quarterly ultimatium, buy the expansion pack or be left behind. That's why offering a free download of an MMORPG client is the worst thing you can possibly do. Players who get a "free trial" will do anything and everything to justify why the game "sux" and not pay the subscription fee. So instead of having customers decide once if they like the game and subscribe to it, you now are asking them every quarter to decide if the game is worth another purchase.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Nothing like Slashdot to bring out the idiot trolls.
... well, you can't play with them much longer. So you have to keep playing or else you're just wasting money AND time spent already in the game. I play GW because it's fun, not to level grind or keep up with the Joneses. I've already put in 40 hours PvE. So...I've already used the money I've spent on a normal game ... and I'm maybe half way through the current plot. That's not counting the content ANet's already added in ... for free.
... a game which was nothing more than a paid beta when released? Well, because ANet's already showed that they have the chops to make an expansion every bit as worthwhile as the original, and not a patch you have to pay for.
... that's also part of that um, "stated goals" you supposedly read.
I've played month to month MMOs. Unless you are hardcore into the genre, they suck in terms of monetary value.. Period. It's a horrible payment schme. Every day you aren't playing the game - you're still paying for it. Oh, and if you dare play with friends and don't play enough to keep up with them
Yeah, the expansion will cost about as much as the original. I'm sorry, how is that any worse than Sony charging nearly full price for an expansion to PlanetSide
And who will buy it? Well, people still interested in the game. Since you don't obviously don't play GW, I'll just assume you didn't know how silly a statement it is that you'll need the expansion to keep playing. I've picked up games with veterans, joined games with newbies, and I haven't even touched the additional content to date. What ANet is doing is assuming that they'll be doing a good enough job that the people who have played the original will want more. The expansions won't be required for play
Guild Wars is a different beast than other MMO's out there. Comparing it to other, subscription based, games with expansions is just ignorant.
Head back to your cave. I'll be in Ascalon if you need me.
Sigh. Let's just wait and see.. but if you want to be honourable, how about you make a gentleman's bet? At some point in time the game will move from loss leader to expansion pack forced upgrades and you'll say "gee, QuantumG was right". When that happens send me a few $k.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Don't get we wrong... world of warcraft is a great game, but as a college a student, I have a hard time justifying paying $15/month for time playing on their servers that I should be using to study.
It is impossible to compare Guild Wars like this. It's easy to pick up and play for 20 minutes and have a good time. It depends on what kind of commitment you're looking to give a video game. Some have the time to play WoW... I for one do not have that much free time (nor do I have the money to pay for that time I won't be able to use).
arl with a k - a blog of mine.
Guild Wars= $50 retail price + price for expansions (say $45 at the most)
Random Subscription Game: = $50 retail price + $10-$15 per month subscription dont forget about expansions for subscription games. i used to play dark age of camelot. buy the game ($50) $15 per month. then you had expansions. thats another $20-$35 right there. so, it can depend on the game. im hoping for either LARGE pay expansions, or sorta big free ones. (Take the sorrows furnace in GW for example)
13 million whoo!
By your own admission they must release that many or they have to magically attract more players than subscription based MMORPGs that actually buy the expansions.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Can you imagine it? People are still playing a game that was released a whole six months ago? Unprecedented! Completely unheard of! Truly, a landmark in history of Internet gaming!
I don't have objections to Guild Wars or such, just happy that they're building a strong community. Yet, I find it a bit odd that in general, nowadays, some people might consider it weird to play a game that was released more than 2 months ago. Are we really heading to "throwaway entertainment" culture in video games too, or what?
Do call me back when Guild War reaches five-year limit though, like Neverwinter Nights will in next summer, still at the moment as lively as ever =)
The PVE is awful. You just zerg from one group of enemies to the next. It's tedius, and not particularily difficult either. Unfortunately you have to go through the awful PVE to unlock abilities, which is simply not worth the effort.
I regret purchasing the game. I put less than ten hours into it before uninstalling.
I really like how you are insulting people who are disagreeing with your mindless bashing of a good game (you have not even seemed to have played, mind you), and the way you reply to reasonable comments saying that, inevitably, your vision will come true. Fact is, Guild Wars, at its current price point, is an immensely attractive game that doesn't require a monthly subscription. So, if in the future it changes from its "loss leader" statue (and the fact that you use loss leader means you have no idea what you are talking about), people will stop playing it. NOW people are enjoying it.
Mother is the best bet and don't let Satan draw you too fast.
Try it briefly, and you'll see why they are extremely likely to succeed. There are five key reasons why I think it's almost guaranteed, by design:
It's mind-bogglingly complex to be fully aware of the professions of those you are fighting and what skills they are using, to counter them appropriately, while at the same time managing your energy reserve, and looking out for your team. This is nothing like a straight turns-based MMOG like EQ, where once you engage combat, the outcome is largely decided as long as you don't do something dumb. GW is fast and furious --- no tank taunt to trivialize the gaming in PvE, and effective foe AI so that the healer always gets it first, just like human players do.
If you've absorbed the above, you'll realize that PvP in Guild Wars is either fantastically brilliant (if you like PvP) or appallingly dreadful (if you're a PvE-only fan), because GW's PvP is trully player-skill-based: ie. the best man/woman wins, regardless of equipment. This is why the Koreans own GW's PvP space --- they work hard to understand the game, and it's their human skill/experience as players that makes them use the in-game skills so devastatingly. (America comes a beleagered and very battered second, and the chewed up and splattered remains of Europe a very distant third.)
In summary, Guild Wars can't fail, not by rights anyway. It will fail only if not enough people hear about it, or if its totally excellent developers leave the company. (No, I don't work there, I'm just an appreciative player, completed it on main.)
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
I've been playing Guild Wars since May and I love every aspect of it.
However, I'm disappointed that we've gone from calling it a CORPG to an MMORPG. People buy this game expecting "WoW for Free!" when they should be thinking "Diablo Done Right."
If you're looking for a fun, skill-based, multiplayer RPG then Guild Wars is the best you'll find. If you're looking for something that you can play every single day/night, find an active guild that plays a lot of PvP.
Oh yeah, and get your free trial. Don't worry about entering a serial number.
The US Army: promoting democracy through unquestioned obedience
Give it to me, then. ;)
As well as the fact that there is no Monthly fee. I am what you call the casual gamer. Play couple times a month for a couple hours. And its still fun to play with friends that play 3 -4 times a week.
But for some more free fun check out the url under my user name.
http://logd.programgeeks.net/referral.php?r=lordv
Oh man, you have the most amazing insight into where this game is going! I'd just like to point out that the developers said right-out that the game is designed to avoid exactly this issue. Like, a year ago. (If you scroll down a bit, you'll see the question, "Am I required to buy new chapters?" They refer to "common areas" - these are the areas in the current scope of the game.)
If you think the designers won't be able to get around this problem, I suggest you take a peek at the game and the server structure. It lends itself to a modular expansion system pretty directly.
Obviously you'd expect the designers to reply to a question like that with "yes, of course you'll be required to buy the upgrades and if you don't you'll soon feel the back of my hand across your face bitch! Now bend over and grab your ankles." Jesus. How stupid are you? If all your friends are off enjoying the new content and you're stuck in the "common area" playing with, well, yourself then obviously you're going to feel the need to buy the expansion pack, or you're going to quit and run around telling everyone who will listen that the game sucks ass and that's why you quit.
How we know is more important than what we know.
You have no idea what you're talking about, so you should stop trying. You've tried to compare GW to paid subscriptions and you clearly have no concept of the gameplay ArenaNet was going for. This isn't just EQuest of City of Heroes without a monthly fee, it's a totally different style.
... you'll need the expansion pack. DUH. And if you've gotten a group of friends who like it that much, it will be worth the money. If not, you're bound to get your original $50 back just by soloing if you want.
I've spent probably 10-15 hours just making another character and flopping around the tutorial area of the game. Playing in "just" the common area is quite fun and easy to get pick up games with. In fact, some of the best PUGs are from the newer sections of the game, so going back and replaying missions is insanely common. More than half the missions I've played were with people doing it their second or third time around (at least). Show me another MMO that can boast that.
Sure, if all you're friends want to do is play in the expansion pack and all you want to do is play with your friends
Either way, at least you weren't wasting $12 a month just to get to that stage. For early adopters of the game under a monthly fee, they'd have spent $160 or more on the game, as opposed to the $40-$50 they have. So even when they buy the expansion for another $40-$50 in a few months, they're still many nickels over the normal MMO pricing scheme.
Now, begone troll. If you can't bother with facts or math to back up your silly opinions, not sure why anyone should bother with you.
As someone who's played multiple MMOs, from UO to WoW and just about all of them inbetween, as well as Guild Wars, I have to say that a lot of folks parading GW as being the trolls here.
So far, my GW experience has been more akin to Diablo 2, with the same quality and challenge of encounters as opposed to something that I'm likely to find in WoW, FFXI or EQ. As to the monthly fee being so horrible because you pay for it every day, let's look at exactly what that entails, shall we?
I'll use WoW, my current MMO of choice, which has a month by month fee of $15 bucks a month. Average of 30 days in a month, which gives us a cost of *gasp* 50 CENTS A DAY. Yea, that's so horribly expensive, isn't it?
Yes, GW will have free expansion content. However, looking at it, it's not terribly expansive, and at most is probably a weekend of content. WoW is getting to the point where the dev team is able to get a major content update out about every other month, which is what your monthly fees are paying for in part. GM staff is another thing that it pays for. Just for curiosity on the issue of Customer Service, have you tried getting any for Guild Wars? I have, and it sucks. It's down automatically through the website, and barely works. Not to mention that the most frequent problems I run into have zero help available, and any questions I send in regarding them are stonewalled.
GW is nice and fun, but only for a few weeks. After that, it's a waste of HDD space.
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
So far, my GW experience has been more akin to Diablo 2
... all the power to you. But days add into months, and like I pointed out - end up costing a lot. At that rate you could be buying a new game almost every three or four months off the back of what you're spending on one. You only got a few weeks worth of fun out of Guild Wars? Oh, wow, yeah ... that's ... like ... horrible. Gee, I only got a few weeks worth of fun out of Half-Life 2, Doom 3, or San Andreas and oh about 90% of any game I buy. Guess every game out there sucks because it's not WoW.
... and I was paying monthly for that. For a monthly fee, I'd expect the same level of service as any other utility I pay for. Something goes wrong, I call someone, I get to talk to a human and they fix it. Not sit on my hands while they wait for servers to come back online.
... so I'm not terribly surprised.
Since they cost about the same, I don't see what's so wrong with that.
I'll use WoW, my current MMO of choice, which has a month by month fee of $15 bucks a month. Average of 30 days in a month, which gives us a cost of *gasp* 50 CENTS A DAY. Yea, that's so horribly expensive, isn't it?
Actually, it kinda is. And if you don't believe me, go buy a newspaper every single day, but only read it once or twice a week. Bet you start to notice and stop pretty quick.
Sure, if you read that newspaper every single day - it's not a big deal. And if you play WoW every day
GM staff is another thing that it pays for. Just for curiosity on the issue of Customer Service, have you tried getting any for Guild Wars?
Yes, and it's not great. But it was 1,000 times better than PlanetSide's that's for sure
So it's not great, but Guild Wars service is about on par with most games that don't charge a monthly fee. It got me enough information to fix my own issues, which have been small and sparse since the game itself is pretty stable.
You love WoW and GW didn't thrill you. Hey, that's fine. Like we've been saying, GW isn't really the same as the hardcore MMO
But you're just proving my point. You paid for a title, had some fun with it and didn't like it for the long term. And you didn't have to pay a subscription to discover that. Go ArenaNet.
Personally, I look at it more like I do EQ. I bought EQ, played it for about the same amount of time as GW, and came to largely the same conclusion. I still didn't pay a monthly fee.
As to the newspaper analogy, I don't quite see where you're going w/ that. Instead, let's compare it to some other forms of popular entertainment out there, like a movie. Even if you go to a matinee showing, you're still shelling out 3 bucks for 2 hours at most. To get that kind of cost with an MMO, then you'd have to spend an enormous amount of time every month simply not playing it, and while I can understand that some people don't have that kind of time, 10 hours a month will give you the same entertainment costs as going to see a single matinee movie at a second run theatre. If you want to compare it to a first run, prime time showing, now you're talking about 8 bucks, just for the ticket, spread across 2 hours.
Ultimately, 15 bucks a month for something where you can easily spend 40 hours a month playing isn't the horrible deal that people make it out to be, especially when you compare other aspects of online games, such as customer service and content updates.
Oh, and the reason I used WoW for the comparison as opposed to something like PlanteSide, which was crap, or FFXI, was that the gameplay is vastly closer to GW than anything else. Game content from Pre-Searing up to Ascension is very comparable to WoW from levels 1-59. After that, it's somewhat comparable to WoW at level 60. Ultimately, GW isn't for someone who is looking for a longterm MMO; there simply isn't enough there to keep someone there.
As for the 'every game sucks because it's not WoW' comment, go stuff words in someone else's mouth. I never said that, or even implied it.
So, ultimately, it's like you said, and I said. GW is most definitly on par with other games that don't charge extra for better content, better customer service, more consistent content updates, etc. It's the same as every other game out there which isn't an MMO, which is exactly what GW is not.
I have no regrets, this is the only path.
My whole life has been "UNLIMITED BLADE WORKS"
Personally, I look at it more like I do EQ. I bought EQ, played it for about the same amount of time as GW, and came to largely the same conclusion. I still didn't pay a monthly fee.
... period. So for QuantumG to state that Guild Wars is just as bad as any other MMO is flat out stupid and it's he that's being a troll, not us. At least you've played the game, he's just bashing it to get a response.
... which you seem to agree with.
... and since you yourself said that out of the MMO's you've played ... WoW comes the closest to the gameplay and style, I'm not sure how you can say it either. Oh yeah, there a serious technical and design differences between the two ... but it's just different styles for different audiences. And GW's pricing model is part of that difference. ArenaNet realized that a monthly fee isn't for everyone. Personally, I've quit every MMO I've ever played largely because I didn't feel the fee was justified ... so I'd say they had a point.
Except that with EQ you had a deadline, and if you went over that deadline the clock would start running and you'd have to pay for it. GW doesn't have any such restrictions, like a normally priced game.
Instead, let's compare it to some other forms of popular entertainment out there, like a movie.
OK. Fine. Let's say it's $10 a ticket. Let's say you pay a monthly fee of $30 and you can see movies whenever you want. If you see thirty movies in a month, it's a fantastic deal. If you only see one a month, it sucks eggs. And you have to pay upfront, so you better know there are good movies you want to see that month (and the next, etc.)
So sure, if you can put 40 hours a month into a $15 subscription, you're definately getting your money's worth. At 20 hours a month, you're getting closer to breaking even and if you get less than 10 hours a month - you're just throwing money away. That breaks down basically to people who play almost daily, almost weekly or sporadically.
Like I said originally, the normal MMO pricing only makes sense for people who are hardcore MMO players. If you're playing an MMO 40 hours a month, you're in that group. Guild Wars makes sense for anyone who wants to try out the game
As for the 'every game sucks because it's not WoW' comment, go stuff words in someone else's mouth. I never said that, or even implied it.
So, ultimately, it's like you said, and I said. GW is most definitly on par with other games that don't charge extra for better content, better customer service, more consistent content updates, etc. It's the same as every other game out there which isn't an MMO, which is exactly what GW is not.
Well, maybe that was unfair - but it definately sounded like you were bashing Guild Wars simply because it didn't have the longevity you found with WoW, and my point was that is true of nearly every game in it's price point
I don't really see how GW isn't an MMO
I agree, i have alot of friends who won't play cause they think it's only for hardcore PVP people. But really, you could play it and never even PVP and have plenty of fun.