Slashdot Mirror
Preview of New MSN Hotmail
An anonymous reader writes "Here is a Preview of a new MSN Hotmail system, using AJAX. Currently in Beta testing." Most interesting is how the user interface more closely resembles a traditional local application. It's definitely a big step in that direction.
See below for attempts at justifying why Gmail is still better, despite anything Microsoft throw at us!
Come on, this is just too predictable.
I suppose you could make the argument that if in the future software becomes more web-based, it's important to establish as much brand support as possible, because most people will follow the logos they feel more comfortable with.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
..... How tied is this to IE, or by some miracle will it behave exactly the same under other browsers (Firefox, Opera, etc.)?
The article doesn't seem to give any insight on this.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Wow, I have no idea where he pulled the "huge improvement over GMail" from. This HotMailEx just seems to be GMail with an annoying entry portal page that keeps you from your mail.
Unless he was talking about how great it is to have a right click menu. Wow, yeah, that's big.
John
It acts a lot like Outlook too! Now you can get email viruses from webmail!
"It is the stillest words which bring the storm. Thoughts that come with doves' footsteps guide the world."
...never looked sooo good.
I see this as a validation of biodiversity and competition. Microsoft( or yahoo ) never would have spiffed up their web mail interfaces without pressure from competition.
I have a Gmail account and use it on occassion when I don't want to use my normal POP3 account. I like some things about Gmail and don't like others. Frankly, I think the comments people post about how Gmail, Yahoo mail, etc are kind of pointless, since people will just use whatever interface they prefer. I'll stick with Gmail since I use webmail so infrequently it makes no sense to change to something else right now.
Based on the screenshots, it looks like MS has done some pretty cool stuff with this interface. I didn't spend time reading the article, but it seems like some of the features would be hard to implement perfectly across many different browsers (drag-drop support, right-click support). However, if people want to use Firefox or Opera, they have Gmail as an option for web mail.
MS isn't forcing this service on anybody, and I'm not sure if there's any way they could. So, it's a good thing then. It's got some interesting features that the other webmail services don't have, and as such it's fostering competition. Slashdotters like to talk about having choices... well, this is just one more choice to choose from.
If you don't like it, don't use it.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
In light of the previous thread about annoying adverts, I particularly like the feature where you can't actually see the body of the email because there are too many adverts on the page (eg see http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/mail_be ta_preview_05.jpg)
The world has changed and we all have become metal men.
Want to make a good webmail ?
then :
- no ads every two pixels
- having servers not slow as hell
- having the possibility to send attachements not seen at virus everytime !!
- stop sending your fucking newsletter that I don't want to see !! (or make it blockable !!)
- more space ?
.. and all Firefox users will get dumped into the old clunky interface.
Nevermind the fact that Google have proven it is trivial to make a useable dynamic interface work in most major browsers.
This next-generation kahuna interface makes extensive use of CSS, something IE totally sucks at. I would be interested to hear what the developers have to say about using CSS and these other technologies in IE and compared to Firefox. Pretty much every major web development house I know of develops on Firefox first, then hacks in the crap needed to make it run on IE. MS's team would obviously do it in reverse. I'd love to hear their comments on browser standards and IE 7's compliance with the standards that make this type of web application possible.
And how long will it take for MSN to change those 'Mail Beta Tip #x' graphics into obnoxious flash ads? My guess: one week after it exits beta.
No free POP3 access? Then I don't care. And (not to sound like a billboard) if I'm going to pay X a year for an email address, I'd much rather pay about the same to godaddy for a domain and email account in which I have an entire domain at my disposal.
In undeveloped countries, the consumer controls the market. In capitalist America, the market controls you.
Edit | Preferences | Web Features, click on the Javascript Advanced button, and tick "Disable or replace context menus".
Firefox has this feature, it's just disabled by default because it's almost universally used to disable right clicking on pages by people scared that their visitors might save images from their website.
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
I think that the "messages" column, combined with the folders column (Inbox,...) eats too much width.
:) ) by the use of that "beta" ? :)
Oh, and the cancel button is too close to "attach" drop-down in the compose mode. Especially in the compose mode : now you've written a long message and want to attach some file... oops !
Also I hope (naively ?) that those big banners on the top and left are only in the beta version.
About the name (mail^beta) : Does that mean that MS trademarked the "mail" word ? Are they voluntarily mimicking Google (sorry, "innovating"
I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
It's saddening to see that the massive overhead of a big firm makes it so difficult to come up with a quick response. We're living in a fast world and while Google has the lightweight advantage over biggies like MS. The comment about things being rolled out in phases explains that they have too much on their plate and no wonders all the disgruntled developers are whining all over the net and walking away as well. I'm not sure when kahuna will be out. I've moved over to Gmail long ago (like many many others)...
Scott McNealy to Michael: "Suck my Sun!" Michael Dell to Scott : "Lick my Dell!"
All the screen-shots show a cluttered interface with giant, full-colored banners at the top and right side. Currently, the banners feature links to provide feedback for Hotmail beta. However, they're complete with cheesy stock photos of happy office people, so you get a good idea of how this app will look when MS starts selling this real estate for flash-based ads.
I switched to gmail a few months ago and it's taken me awhile to adjust to their tag and search paradigm. However, once I got over the illusion of control that comes from tediously sorting mail into folders and learned to rely on search for finding old messages, I became amazed by how much time I used to spend on administrative overhead for emailt. I find myself tagging fewer and fewer messages now. I just dump them into the archive, and seldom have more than five messages in my inbox. Finding old stuff with couple of search terms works beautifully, and replies I receive for ongoing conversations cause the entire conversation to re-appear in the inbox. It works very, very well. I read and respond to email faster as a result, also.
My biggest gripes with GMail is their poor contact management, but it's been worth the hassle. Also, they've yet to implement a couple of fundamental capabilities, like adding a 'mark as read' action to filters.
This way of dealing with email was hard to get used to, but turned out to be very liberating.
Gmail is better, because it has great localization/internationalization (including, for example, a Bulgarian spellchecker)...
"On the other hand, it's still early in Kahuna's development, and I don't recommend that anyone switch their production email account over to this service quite yet"
Hahaha, yeah right, if I have ANY alternatives to the HORRIBLE webmail interface that hotmail is right now, I'll take it, even if it's worse. You know why? Cause it can't get any worse, it can only wrap around and become better.
More disposable spam accounts!
But seriously, the new release of MSN Hotmail is meant to compete with Google's Gmail. It probably won't succeed either. The reason? Branding. Hotmail is already known as a cheap e-mail account with little storage space and restrictive rules of how often you must check your e-mail. With lack of archiving features and searchable features in the current Hotmail, many people have a bad taste.
Microsoft may try to make a new Hotmail, but the corporate branding simple isn't there. My prediction is that they will launch into an expensive advertisment campaign to push Hotmail or even force users to use Hotmail more than they do now by integrating Hotmail with other Microsoft software.
I'm getting more people to use gmail in areas that don't have broadband, specifically because of the lack of images. Works well for them, and they are happy.
Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
why not create a temp Hotmail account and sign up for a beta? I'd like to test the new beta with Firefox (and Adblock on) and post my results. It might work well...or not (primarily depending on which team was working on it).
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
It was bad enough when they started putting IE inside Outlook windows. Now they've managed to put Outlook inside IE. Fantastic...
Anyone have any info on IMAP/SSL support? Webmail is nice, but being able to use Thunderbird/Mail.app/Outlook Express (ugh) is what really makes these free/cheap services nice for Grandma.
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
Can anyone provide a link to a site that describes how to implement these kind of features with AJAX? Also, an explanation of how Google Maps uses AJAX would be great too.
Any info is greatly appreciated!
Safari already had an XmlHttpRequest object when GMail launched. In fact GMail worked if you did UserAgent spoofing. It just was not officially supported.
And the XMLHttpRequest object was being written in Konqueror before GMail existed. GMail probably helped push it along though.
I have a free account. The size is 250MB and can access Hotmail via Outlook Express using http mail protocol.
So it looks slightly cleaner. What's with those ugly picture ads still? So you can drag and drop email into folders. Big frakkin' deal: Gmail automatically sorts my mail into folders for me without me having to drag them. It has an info bar that's supposed to protect me from phishing, spam and virus attachments? Well woop-dee-frakkin'-doo, I still think I'd have to block all mail from everyone I didn't manually add to my list if their filter isn't much, much much better. Etc etc etc.
This really reminds me of your stereotypical "ex-boyfriend". He had been a rather horrid human being, but I stuck with him for a while, out of past affection. The relationship keeps getting worse and worse. Until finally I met someone better who gets all the basics of a relationship right before showing me anything "fancy".
The new guy didn't bug me with crap, responds to what I need faster, present interesting information/messages to me in a clearer way, and even come up with a few surprises I didn't know was capable for a boyfriend. So months and even years later, the ex comes back and tells me he's changed. That he does this and that now. That he "is the rebirth of " boyfriend-dom.
Right.
No, really, I'm not bitter...
What are the chances it is just running OWA with a customized front-end?
That would make an awful lot of sense to just use their existing email server technology to re-launch their online email service.
Too much sense, maybe. Does Exchange scale to the degree HOTMAIL needs? (serious Q., not a troll)
Why, oh why, didn't I take the Blue Pill?
How about just taking it for what it's worth? A well-written application that isn't perfect and neither is Gmail.
Be sure to remember the Programmers Prayer
http://patcavit.com/2005/09/14/y-mail-beta-impress ions/
Looks VERY sharp.
Now, which one wins on FUNCTIONALITY? Dunno. That's obviously what matters most, but if we're going to talk about which looks most desktop-like, I think Yahoo! takes the crown, for now.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
> > Microsoft coder bites can be very painful you know.
> May I have your sisters' phone number?
No, reeli! When she got bit, she was hacking her initials onto the Google front page from the sharpened end of an original clicky IBM keyboard given to her by Bill Gates - her brother-in-law - a Redmond software executive and star of many Microsoft products: "H0tmail Hands of a Redm0nd S0ftware Executive", "M0nkey B0ys of Passion", "The Neverending Devel0pers of Steve Ballmer".
Are you still sure you want that phone number?
Currently, MS's development process for hosted apps (MSN, Hotmail, MSN Search, etc.) is moving faster than for PC-based apps and OSes (Windows, Office, etc.).
It's no secret that MS's product management are using the hosted apps as experiments to see in which direction to take their other applicatons. Go take a tour of the Zimbra email client and see if you don't think it's striking fear into the hearts of MS's Exchange/Outlook product managers. Zimbra's not just different--it's obviously superior. MS needs to use Hotmail as the crucible for testing new features that they hope to shoehorn into Exchange/OWA in the future. If they don't, somebody like Zimbra's going to come and take their market share away.
When Microsoft treats users as novices they get slammed. When Apple treats users as novices they are heaped with praises.
The difference is that Microsoft seems to try and make sure people stay novices forever. Apple helps out novices but tries to help them learn new things as well.
One way this is evident is Microsoft changing more advanced portions of interfaces over time, so that an advanced users of one version of the OS (or Office) may have to learn how to do the same advanced thing again in the next release. Apple has been much better at taking an evolutionary approach to interfaces and thus letting people carry knowledge forward.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
This seems to be an interesting upgrade to an old and rapidly aging Hotmail interface. Though, I hope Microsoft open it's eyes and expand the service to encompass entire browser array. . If mozilla browsers are so good, they would rapidly support the languages in which Kahuna uses and enable mozilla browsers to use the new Hotmail. Dspite the requirements, I welcome a change to the interface to the old and current one.
And some have complained how Microsoft how treats it's computer users. Well, majority of internet users are newbies. All they know how to do is turn on a pc, open up AOL, MSN, or other ISP applications, and chat with email or IMs. It's how spyware and viruses spread so easily. People are just to dumb to understand to keep from being infected or avoid spyware.
It's why companies like Mandriva and Linspire are producing Linux distributions that are user friendly.
It's why Apple Computer redesigned MacOS into the user friendly MacOSX.
It's why Operating Systems in general developed what is called the GUI
Computers will always sport better and better GUIs because majority of it's users don't know how to take full advantage of their pcs. There is still the advanced users and elite classes of computer users who still prefer Command-Line interface but until majority are computer users fall into this category, Microsoft and companies will still develop applications and web interfaces for the 'dumb' computer user.
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The Open Source Zimbra AJAX email server/client is news. When MSN develops a commercial application, that's just an advertisement. Well, I guess you can use it as a confirmation that it's the direction email is going, since commercial vendors are deploying the technologies.
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.