Microsoft Looking For Xbox Moms

WillAffleckUW writes "In a New York Times article republished here in International Herald Tribune, Microsoft says it is desperately seeking moms to play XBox games, and has a marketing campaign for women gamers. Apparently not satisfied with its target audience of 17-24 yo males, they are even giving away thousands of free consoles on the radio. Most analysts doubt that the FPS and combat-heavy XBox gaming selection will sell well to women though." From the article: "This time, Microsoft is planning a wider attack. Brochures being sent to major retailers like Best Buy prominently describe the 360's ability to double as a DVD player, play music from an MP3 player through a television's speakers and even display digital photos on a TV. Its game functions, while impressive, are only part of the message."

Comments

And how is this supposed to work?

[MMaestro]

Brochures being sent to major retailers like Best Buy prominently describe the 360's ability to double as a DVD player, play music from an MP3 player through a television's speakers and even display digital photos on a TV.

Didn't Sony do this with the PS2 when it first launched and a huge majority of users just ended up using it as a DVD player or PS1 playing machine for the first year?

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[MBCook]

I did that, but it was due to a lack of games in many ways. I bought the PS2 at launch as a PS2. It just happened to get FAR more use as a DVD player (didn't own one before that except my computer) and as a PS1 (because there were still MANY games coming out for the PS1) than as a PS2 (great games were fewer and farther between when the platform just launched, as when any platform first launches).

I don't remember Sony every specifically advertising it as "It is a DVD player that does games" or something like that. They touted the PS1 functionality (that was the first home console in a long time that was backwards compatible). They touted the DVD player, but only as a "you don't have to pay $30 to enable it" bullet point kind of thing (as far as I can remember).

From the article, this sounds different to me.

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[wgaryhas]

I thought the Saturn was reverse compatible, and it was the same generation as PS1. So how was it 'the first home console in a long time that was backwards compatible'?

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[badasscat]

I thought the Saturn was reverse compatible

Huh? The Saturn was not backward-compatible. The PS2 was the first home console that was backward-compatible out of the box since the Atari 7800 in 1987. (The Sega Genesis had an add-on that made it SMS compatible, but it was not standard equipment.)

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[pnice]

I thought the Saturn was reverse compatible, and it was the same generation as PS1. So how was it 'the first home console in a long time that was backwards compatible'?

It wasn't backwards compatable. The Gameboy Color was though!

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[tuzzyfoad]

I thought the Saturn was reverse compatible, and it was the same generation as PS1. So how was it 'the first home console in a long time that was backwards compatible'?

Actually, Atari made the first backwards-compatible console - the 7800, in 1986

I don't think the Saturn was backwards-compatible at all with the handful of Sega-CD games that were produced.

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[MBCook]

The Atari was the reason I put "... in a long time" (or something like that) in my original post. I wasn't sure, but I suspected the 7800 could play 2600 games (the fact that it wasn't successful isn't exactly relevant, but I could have put "first successful backwards compatible...").

As others have mentioned the game boy systems have been (why I added the word "home"). The Genesis could play Master System games (if you bought an adaptor, as could the Game Gear). And there have always been after-market things to let you play NES games on the SNES and NES/SNES games on the N64 (although I have always been doubtful of their quality as they are the kind of things you find in the back of magazines).

As for the Saturn, it was not backwards compatible with ANYTHING, even with an adaptor (from what I know). It had a cartridge slot that LOOKED exactly like it took Genesis games, but that was only for memory cartridges (Sega's save units, as Sony hadn't invented the now ubiquitous memory card yet). If the Saturn could play Sega CD games that may have helped the Sega CD (there were rumors about this before the launch, but it never happened). There were also rumblings that the 32X would let you play Saturn games (would have helped both the 32X and the Saturn) but those were false also.

The closest thing to backwards compatible any recent Sega console had was the Dreamcast. While there was nothing official, it was absolutely trivial to run user code on it (burn a normal CD... how tough!) so you could run Genesis emulators (along with SNES and other systems). But that is completely unofficial and home-brewed.

As far as I can remember, the Atari 7800 was the ONLY console that was backwards compatible before the PS2 (again, home console, as the GBC was). There may have been one before the 7800 (a Colocovision 2 or some such) but I don't know enough about that era to say for sure.

Re:And how is this supposed to work?

[-kertrats-]

Didn't Sony do this with the PSP when it first launched and a huge majority of users just ended up using it as a movie player or emulator playing machine for the first year?

Fixed your sentence to point out that they didnt stop at the PS2.

Jail?

[turtled]

I think that one mom went to jail for stealing money from people thinking they were donating... oh, wait, that was a Playstation mom.

Do they have the game Calgon (take me away)?

Nintendo Leads Again

[OpMindFck]

There's been much talk of the declining video game market. Especially from the folks at Nintendo. Until now their plans for expanding the market have been just talk. With the revolution controller revealed, It looks like Nintendo may just be able to snag the "mother/grandparent/people-that-don't-play-FPS-gam es" market.

Could this marketing campaign just be a result of Microsoft's recognition of this threat from Nintendo?

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[tuzzyfoad]

I'm not quite sure how the revolution controller may "snag" a demographic that has never been interested in console gaming? If anything it seems more likely to push them further away as it's yet another "new" technology that they've never encountered before.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry, which game in particular for the Revolution are you referring to? Nintendo has shown no game for their next console, none, zilch, nada. For all we know, they could just release a new Mario, Zelda and Metroid, which while most likely being awesome, probably won't attract any new audiences. Look at the EyeToy, almost anyone can play the EyeToy games. And yet, a whole new market segment didn't evolve out of that. Ditto with DDR.

Nintendo has a huge fight in this next generation. Their strategy seems sound to me, but there is no evidence yet, that they can actually broden the appeal of video games. Again, where are the Revolution games? All we've seen are WarioWare-esque demos. So, not only does Nintendo need to come up with a game with broad appeal (like Nintendogs) they have to convince a segment previously turned off by non-PopCap/solitare video games to go out and spend a couple hundred dollars to play it. A revolutionary controller may be part of the solution, but it certainly isn't the final answer and by itself isn't anything I would expect Microsoft nor Sony to form a strategy against.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[Anonymous Coward]

Nintendo has always had a stronger base of women gamers than either Sony or Microsoft have due to their approachable (ie. cute) characters and accessable gameplay. I have personally never met a woman (under the age of 40) that didn't enjoy a Mario Kart, Mario Party, or Mario Sports game. When you compare this to the XBox's library of games that treat women like cattle (she kicks high indeed) and are completely inaccessable (press X,B,Y and Z to launch super missle gun) you can see how dramatically different the companies strategies are.

If you doubt Nintendo's accessability consider they made a racing game (kirby's air ride) where you race using only one button.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[porcupine8]

Which "new" technology (they're all new to someone who hasn't used any of them) do you think is more approachable for the average non-gamer:

1) Remote control-type device that you hold in your hand. When you want something to move, you move it. When you want to shoot at (or in some other way affect) an object, you point at it and hit a button.

2) Strangely-shaped (though somewhat nice ergonomically) device with what looks like several ways to move your character; you have to figure out which to use for what, and get used to the thumb movements. When you want to do anything, you have to remember specific combinations of the many buttons.

I can totally see how the Revolution could be more approachable. I'm not entirely sure yet that I'd rather use it for traditional types of games (which for me means Mario and Zelda), but I'm definitely ready to give it a shot.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[MBCook]

The revolution controller trailer doesn't show games, but it does show people playing (probably hypothetical) games with it. Using it like a fishing rod, like drumsticks, like a light gun, etc. I think being told "this is a fishing rod, press this button to reel in and pull back just like in real life" would not only less off-putting than the alternative "spin the analog stick to reel in, push this button to pull on the rod, push it faster to pull harder, etc.), it would make things far more accessible.

As for the Eye Toy, it suffers from three problems. The first (and biggest) is that no one owns one. It would be one thing if they shipped every PS2 with one, but they didn't. Since no one owns them, no one makes games for it. Since no one makes games for it, Sony must put out a token title here or there. And while is EyeToy: Anti-Grav (which looks interesting), it is still somewhat of a demo (ALL the games on the two EyeToy games are just little WarioWare-esque demos, only longer). If there were more developers, there would be people pushing what it can do and coming up with cool stuff. But even if every publisher and their mother had great ideas for it, no one will publish games for it because no one owns one. Unless Sony came up with a "Halo 2" that required it (thus driving sales, even if it was somewhat peripheral to the game experience) that would have brought about games.

The Revolution controller is our best hope of breaking out of the pattern we have been in since the NES days of the same old controller (with a few new bells and whistles). I hope that it succeeds, or at least spurs innovation to bring about a new controller that will break us out.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[Delphiki]

I see the Nintendo controller being less approachable, like a sibling poster said, because even if non-gamers don't play games, they understand what the activity of playing video games involves. People associated video games with a controller, similar to the PS2. When they see people in best buy playing a demo system that has them making crazy looking motions with a DVD remote, how do people think that is going to make a non-gamer think fun? It seems to me like Nintendo said it will attract non-gamers, so everyone just took it for granted. I just don't see it happening.

Re:Nintendo Leads Again

[DeadScreenSky]

Neither sounds particularly approachable. The only thing that would make the Revolution more approachable is ridiculously simple games (like the fly swatting one shown in the video). Otherwise you still have to learn buttons, you still have to remember certain motions, you still have to deal with an onscreen interface, you still have to deal with some kind of 'moving scenery'. The Gamecube controller wasn't particularly intimidating, but that didn't seem to make it any more accessible to traditional nongamers (ie people who don't like games). What really gets nongamers into gaming is the same thing that always has: a gamer they are close to pushing them into it.

Maybe...

[Anonymous Coward]

If they start developing Soap Opera.... or even.... Orpah-themed games!

Dr. Phil Live?

I can see it now

[Joe the Lesser]

You come home from school. The house is a mess, the dog needs to be walked, the dishes are dirty, and your mom is playing Halo screaming "What the fuck, I shot him three times!!!"

Re:I can see it now

[Saige]

Don't quite know about that, but I know of a couple women in my clan that are mothers, and make sure their kids go to bed on time so that they can hop on and play Halo. :)

I'm suspecting that when I get to that point, the kids won't be playing games until the homework is finished - because I'll be playing instead.

Re:I can see it now

[Anonymous Coward]

If Halo represents that high a priority in their lives, then they are truly irresponsible and negligent towards their children.

If the video gaming companies are so eager to usurp every member of every household, then they will bring on the destruction of the modern society! Children already cannot be expected to do homework and chores, because so many are addicted to video games...and, now, the parents will be, too!

Like many people, I used to play a lot of video games, but as I got older I realized what a genuine waste of time they are. Every minute spent playing video games is a minute of life lost forever that could have been better spent with family, friends, a good book, or anything else that is constructive rather than destructive.

Re:I can see it now

[Anonymous Coward]

Every minute you spent writing that rant was a minute of life lost forever that could have been better spent with family, friends, a good book, or anything else that is constructive rather than destructive.

Translation

[MBCook]

Translation:

You didn't buy our last console because the games were terrible (as far as things to appeal to Moms)

You wouldn't buy our new console because the games will be terrible (as far as things that appeal to Moms)

So we are firing a shotgun-blast of pointless features we tacked on for the sole purpose of marketing bullet-points and "but Sony and Nintendo don't do ____" at you in the HOPES that SOMETHING will stick and might get you to look at buying our console.

Because you NEED a $400 DVD player (which has inferior quality to true $400 DVD players, I bet). You NEED a $400 box to listen to your iPod on your TV (because that $3 headphone->RCA cable won't work well enough). You NEED to be able to view your photos on the TV (because every digital camera in the last 5 years won't let you do that... no... wait...).

This is a STUPID marketing tactic. It's like trying to sell pickup trucks to women because they include a makeup mirror. Who would buy a pickup truck not because they needed a car of some sort, but because of the makeup mirror. No, worse: it is selling fridges to Eskimos because you can use the top of it to collect dust.

You want female gamers? Make good, fun, nice, games. There are other genres than Sports, Xtreme Sports, FPS, and Fighter. Look at Nintendo. They have the Mario games (even the Mario sports ones can appeal to women), they haver other games like Animal Crossing, and they also have things like Nintendogs.

Has it occured to you that you have pushed so far to towards 18 year old males that you no longer don't appeal to women, you are actively driving them away? I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.

It is now, and always will be ALL ABOUT THE GAMES.

Re:Translation

[cgenman]

To be fair, all of game development involves firing buckshot in hopes that something will stick. You whip up 50 ideas, and throw them at publishers. Publishers twitch a finger when you describe 10 of them, so you go off and develop those ideas. You come back, and they're interested in 3. You make 3 full fledged demos, and 1 gets picked up for a full build. They shotgun blast you with features they're thinking about, and you pick the dozen that sound the least painful. You run off to make your E3 Demo. Your E3 Demo is proof that your minimum gameplay is all you need, but while you're out there your publisher promises the press that your game will have every feature imaginable and some that aren't. Any features that seem to stick get begrudgingly implemented amongst much cursing. You polish up whatever hydra you've created, and you put it in a box. The publisher's marketing people then forget about it and bury it in a list somewhere, or maybe it sticks to them and they advertise it in everything from Home and Garden to Time Magazine... maybe the game magazines if you're really lucky. And after all that, the gamer will look at the cover of your box in a store and go "eh."

I agree, though, that if they want to attract female gamers they need to drop the girls jumping on trampolines and deliver more quality content that isn't about having the most blood or the biggest linebackers. The Xbox isn't even particularly bad in this department, but you would never know it by their marketing.

I don't know if it is still there, but I've heard that Microsoft's head game development studio has a grand staircase leading up to a giant topless female bust. Getting rid of THAT, and making a major concerted effort to hire female developers would help. That's not to say that women necessarily make games better suited for women, but three or four woman on a development team is usually enough to end a lot of the unprofessional stupidly masculine stuff that happens on all-male teams and pushes women out of gaming. Could you imagine a woman sitting in on the decision to have a BloodRayne "extra bouncy juggies" cheat? If you can't say it to a fellow female developer with a straight face, you shouldn't put it in the game.

When I first met her my girlfriend would never touch gaming. She thought it was entirely degrading to women. That's all that had ever been shown to her through advertising and media... Sex object girls jumping up and down while fast cars drive by (I'm looking at YOU, Namco). Or huge sweaty linebackers smashing into eachother. Or even Mario rescuing the princess. That's all she knew, because that's how the industry on average chooses to portray itself. That's not, thankfully, all the industry provides. We have games like Nintendogs, Virtua Tennis, Hot Shots Golf, The Sims, and tons of others. Heck, Quake 3 managed to be an action dream without being demeaning to women. Eventually I got my girlfriend hooked on DDR, Katamari, and Karaoke Revolution, but it was quite the uphill battle to change her perceptions. And whenever I see the doom trailer, I can feel things slipping back down.

It's not that we have to start attracting women to gaming. We just need to stop repelling them.

Re:Translation

[spyrral]

Eskimos(or any other natives that live in extreme climates) buy refridgerators to prevent their food from getting freezer burn. They insulate the food from the extreme cold outside.

Just tell mom...

[Bin_jammin]

that it's good for storing recipies, and dad can do the family taxes on it. After all, it helped put the PC where it is...

Important Information

[steveo777]

I hope it doesn't run into any TiVo's along the way. That could spell bad news for Microsoft if the RIAA catches wind of this.

It's okay, however, becaues you can go to any electronics retailer and get a stereo (male) to stereo (male) headphone jack and plug your MP3 player directly into almost any device that plugs into a wall and has speakers. If not, just get a stereo to component sound... It's going to be okay.

Honestly, if you can afford the 360 and your television has the best speaker in the house... you really need to get your priorities straightened out. That 360 or any other next-gen should wait for now. Sound is a bigger player in the realism or interation of a game than you think. Graphics come second (but still shouldn't suck).

Dude, open your MIND...

[Corngood]

There are plenty of orchestra conductors out there, and they have that market locked.

X Moms

[lbmouse]

I have something in common with Microsoft... I'm always on the lookout for soccer moms.

Re:X Moms

[Anonymous Coward]

I too am always looking for MILFs, aka soccer moms!

Yeah this would work.

[kinglink]

Between tending home, taking care of the kids, I'm sure moms have to time to relax after a long day to go frag someone. Oh yeah I mean there's so many girls who were there to buy Halo on the first day wasn't there? Maybe in Microsoft land but not in the real world.

I'm in IT, I'm like their "typical gamer" and I barely have time to play games anymore, I get in a couple hours a day if I really look for it. If I find a girlfriend that time will be cut to non existant.

So either they expect single mothers to find time to play games instead of spending time with their kids.

Or is it the married woman, who takes care of a husband is going to spend time playing games instead of being with the man she lives with?

I'm not saying they won't want to play games, but adults in america don't have that much time to just waste on a system, when they have other commitments. Yeah I get into gaming moods still, but I'd much rather hang out with people from the office than be alone playing games. And don't try to tell me that a majority of women are going to get together to game, I'm sure they'd most likely just talk about Desperate housewives and the like (Which from what I hear is quite a quality show) than talk about games or play them.

As for their "all encompassing idea" I've news for them. My Samsung DVD player plays MP3s through TV setups, Plays Dvds, show pictures. and guess what I paid for it? Xbox 360 version is at least 300 + dvd attachments and all. Samsung solution? 30 bucks. WOW! I'm saving over 90 percent of the price.

Re:Yeah this would work.

[snuf23]

Sure not the majority of women game but many do both in the younger and older sets. In World of Warcraft for example the average age of a female player is over 30. We have a 38 year old mom in my WoW guild (and no her kids don't play).
A lot of younger women play games as well. Genres that attract women in general tend to be different (i.e. RPGs and puzzle games) but plenty of women even enjoy FPS (see www.pmsclan.com for example).
Gaming can replace TV watching as family entertainment and can provide a more rewarding experience. Sure you would rather be out with your office mates, but that's where you are in life. Plenty of husband/wife teams play together - you see it in MMOs all the time.
You seem to dismiss gaming as an entertainment form, but consider that plenty of people opt out of watching TV, movies, books whatever and choose interactive entertainment instead.

Re:Yeah this would work.

[badasscat]

Between tending home, taking care of the kids, ...

Or is it the married woman, who takes care of a husband..."

Dude, is it suddenly like, 1953 in here?

You realize not every woman is a housewife or a spinster, don't you?

Re:Yeah this would work.

[tuzzyfoad]

Dude, is it suddenly like, 1953 in here?

You realize not every woman is a housewife or a spinster, don't you?

Very True.

But the ones who have their husbands drive them to work, or take the bus/train to work can't be expected to lug around a 360 and a tv with them. They end up buying DSs to play Nintendogs on their rides.

Re:Yeah this would work.

[kinglink]

you are correct in the short run. But the problem is this is the exception not the rule. Especially when you look at the numbers of women to men in most games, or even online stuff.

I'm not saying NO women will get this, or no women play games, but they are called a minority (gamer girls) for a reason. I think this is a big mistake for Xbox 360 because targetting that category is hard, and they are trying to make it sound like a entertainment "unit" rather then a game station for these women (more focus on the dvd and mp3 capabilities than the playing games ).

Re:Yeah this would work.

[kinglink]

I also meantioned those who worked, who have even LESS time than those who don't. But thanks for pointing out that you only see black and white. You really have proven you care about women so much that you'd rather just complain about a couple lines I wrote instead of actually consider the stuff I said.. Good for you.

Re:Yeah this would work.

[snuf23]

I think the marketing is typical brain dead Microsoft marketing. Just like thinking the stupid MTV hour long launch show/advertisement.
Keep in mind though that there is a difference between someone you might call a "gamer" and a casual player. There are a lot more casual gamers, playing Bejeweled or Scrabble online. Stuff that is quick to get into and quick to put down. I think it would be possible to pull some of these people away from Yahoo games and the like onto a service like Xbox live - but I doubt MS will be able to pull it off.
As a father or two kids and a gamer (arguably relatively hardcore although admittedly less now that I have less time), the "hardcore eXXtreme" marketing that MS pushed wiht the Xbox is a big turn off. The Gamecube is the most used console in my house (yep we have a PS2 and Xbox too) because there are a lot of games that are family friendly and appeal to mom, dad and the kids. I think MS is aware of the fact that they need to reach out to new players - especially now as this stance seems to be a knee jerk response to Nintendo's statement on the direction they are headed with the Revolution.
There is a market out there - but I would agree that it sure isn't Microsoft who is likely to dominate it.

Re:Yeah this would work.

[dfenstrate]

You know there are, in fact, women who continue to do those sorts of things, and enjoy it?

Re:Yeah this would work.

[kinglink]

I completely agree. Of course I did make the mistake of sorta skipping the casual gamer, one must remember the money from a casual gamer will not help a company to riches. if a cuasl gamer buys a couple games for a system the system barely breaks even, if one buys a system just for dvd playback or such, or gets bargain bin games, the system never will break even.

However the sort of game that one can play very casualy isn't found easily on the xbox.. or for that matter any console. While Super Smash Brothers Melee does come close, and Katamari Damacy is right there, it's not common for a "simplistic" game to be out and popular. However at the same time when one comes out it can hit critical acclaim. But again, no system really captures that (granted stuff like GTA, ssx 3, ratchet and clank and others are very easy to pick up and "screw with" for a while, I don't know if I would even call those "casual" games. (GTA definatly not family friendly, though fun, ssx3 I can't tell really, and ratchet and clank I think appeals to the "platformer" in me that hasn't seen a great one since Super Mario 64)

The problem though is I don't know many Xbox titles that are really "Causual" games, perhaps some of the racing games, but even there, it's more racing fanatic thean casual. Halo and Ninja Gaiden are definatly at the other end of that spectrum. But if they have completely revamped Xbox live, to a point where one can download and play "Simpler" games such as Yahoo Games, it could work, but they'd need to basically RIP the fan base straight out of Yahoo games, and that's a large order. If you also notice, Google hasn't even shown interest in that area, and I'm sure they've thought about it.

But if they can make Live similar to yahoo games, I see the "wisdom" in this advertising campaign, however it's a extremely long shot as the Xbox at 300, costs more than a computer that can run Yahoo Games. But it's just like them shovelling out that 5 million (or was it billion) for the Xbox, of which if I remember they basically lost overall.

Microsoft looking for moms?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they expanding their business or what? Meaning are they foraying into the > business?

This is News?

[Prien715]

I understand why this is on slashdot (technology article in a major newspaper), but why oh why did NYT feel they needed to print this story? After reading it, it seems like the MS marketing director decided today's theme was "women gamers" and then looked over the X-Box marketing points that would fit the theme (as opposed to like, actually design a console with a larger audience in mind).

I thought the reason for advertisements was for MS marketing to communicate with the public. But...this is an actual article doing so.

Kind of pricey just to do these things.

[L. VeGas]

.. ability to double as a DVD player, play music from an MP3 player through a television's speakers and even display digital photos on a TV

I have a DVD player that cost me $30 that does all this.

Re:Kind of pricey just to do these things.

[si618]

I have a DVD player that cost me $30 that does all this.

I have XBMC that cost me $0 that does all this...and more! :)

Re:Kind of pricey just to do these things.

[Carrot007]

Cor what an intelligent responce.

XMBC is free.

Yeah free and there is no need for and xbox, mod chip and wireless network adaptor. (cables look messy in your living room).

Great so I'll just go to PC World and take home a free PC to run linux on then shall I?

Bah some people should think before spouting random drivel.

Re:Kind of pricey just to do these things.

[si618]

> Yeah free and there is no need for and xbox, mod chip and wireless network
> adaptor. (cables look messy in your living room).

Already had an xbox in the lounge room, the adsl + router + wi-fi ap is also in the lounge room (close to phone outlet to reduce db), I have wi-fi from PC to AP and ethernet from xbox to router, cables don't have to look messy if you design your environment correctly.

So for me, yes the XBMC was free to get MP3,OGG,AVI,DVD,streaming content from PC (windows or linux), weather,xlink-kai(windows or linux),rss news feeds on my tv (./,etc)

> Bah some people should think before spouting random drivel.

Indeed, like why buy an xbox 360 when the xbox + xbmc already has everything a soccer mum would need. When the 360 comes out, the price of chipped xbox's will fall (probably a lot).

My apologies if I was terse in my response and didn't join the dots for you.

Here, have a wollypop :p

the xbox peripheral most moms want...

[evilmousse]

is some kind of remote-control/egg-timer that could completely lock the xbox from booting up more than X hours a day or between the hours of Y and Z.

(just a wild guess...)

Wtf is this... an astroturfing campaign?

[nathanh]

Its game functions, while impressive, are only part of the message.

And it sounds like an advertising message.

We've been inundated recently with Xbox stories and they're suspicious. For a start, the spelling and grammar has been too good. Look at that sentence above: the word "its" doesn't have the customary (yet incorrect) Slashdot apostrophe. The paragraph cuts to the point and is coherent. It is entirely unlikely anything I normally read on Slashdot.

Only 24 hours ago was another story where Allard was saying there would be shortages. The very unsubtle message from Allard was "Buy your Xbox 360(tm) immediately because otherwise you'll miss out". Another uncharacteristic story that reeked like a hidden advertisment.

24 hours before that, another Xbox story. I don't even recall what it was about, I just know that each day I open Slashdot and there's another fucking Xbox story. This looks to me like an astroturfing campaign. Microsoft has done this before and I wouldn't be surprised if they're doing it again.

Re:Wtf is this... an astroturfing campaign?

[defkkon]

You could say the same about all the Google stories we get.

I love Google, I'm just sayin'...

Re:Wtf is this... an astroturfing campaign?

[Anonymous Coward]

3 words: tin foil hat

Make Games Women Want

[Anonymous Coward]

The only way you're going to get women interested in gaming is to make games that appeal to most women. That doesn't mean that they have to all be simple puzzle games, but they need to be geared more towards female characters and focus more on character development and emotional interaction instead of violence and heart-pounding action.

For starters...

[diamondmagic]

It would help if you TARGET that audience. Nintendo [PDF] puts it nicely. Learn (AKA Copy) a thing or two, thats how the XBox came out in the first place, right?

M.I.L.F

[CountZero117]

this might get me modded down, but, how about a new definition of milf by microsoft, Mom I'd Like to Frag?

Re:M.I.L.F

[AlexMax2742]

I laughed.

Funny Story about my Mom

[iridium_ionizer]

A while ago my brother and I tried to get our mom and dad (both in their early 60's) to play the PS2 game Burnout 3 for the PS2. My dad got through maybe a quarter of a lap, but he was prepared for the rapid button by such racers as Tetris and Columns. However, I believe this was the first and only experience that my mom has had in PLAYING video games.

My mom in real life is definitely not an agressive driver or even a driver with a focused attention. She would sign notes to our teachers while driving us kids to elementary school. In Burnout 3 she had trouble figuring out that she had to continously press down the gas button to accelarate. Her car just kept lurching forward like a skittish Driver's Ed. student. Once we coached her to keep accelerator held down, she was soon cruising around 150 mph down the straightaway. And then slammed into the back of a taxi cab with a loud BOOM and sparks and parts flying. "That's terrible!" she exclaimed. Then she handed us back the controller.

Of course my mom might be a little more conservative than the typical recent grandmother in her early 60's (I don't think she ever rode with drag racing guys during her teen years), but she definitely equated the simulated crash with a real life crash along with all of its injuries and financial problems.

Re:Funny Story about my Mom

[Anonymous Coward]

My mom is in her 70's and a few years back she asked if she could have my NES so she could play Dr. Mario. She scours the garage sales for old carts and brings them home so she can play with my kids when they come over. This weekend I'm going to take my moddded xbox over there so she can play Space Taxi and Boulder Dash (her favs from the C64 days).

My wife, also a mom, who is presently studying for her PhD in Nursing/Public Health Care Policy, will take breaks and play Luxor, Zuma, Bookworm and other Pop Cap type games. She likes to play things like Morrowind, Harvest Moon or Jade Empire, but now she can't spend the time working on a character, following a storyline, so she finds games she can enjoy in small spurts.

I know when I go to get a 360 she'll be more approving of my purchase if she has the ability to watch DVDs and use it to play music, etc. A woman may not seek a 360 for gaming or its various "tacked on" features but she'll support a purchase or be more likely to purchase a multifunction device for someone.

Whoever said this was a "STUPID idea" doesn't know much about marketing.

Bring the women into the fold. They're more fun to play with anyway. : )

Hallmark Channel Games

[iridium_ionizer]

Maybe the Hallmark Channel should come out with a games division. A while back I watched a movie on the Hallmark Channel with my mom (or maybe it was a 2hr long season opener show). It was called Jane Doe and it was about how a suburban housewife that secretly (even to her family) was a retired analyst for a secret government agency. Of course she gets pulled back in, and becomes so busy finding clues and evading bad guys that she nearly misses her daughter's cheerleading tryouts.

I was laughing pretty hard at some parts and so was my mother, but no doubt about it she was eating it up in spite of its so readily apparent cheeziness (and my mom is pretty intelligent). Now, doesn't the plot of that flick tell volumes about the psychology of its target audience. I mean, even the secret government agency was hidden under the local grocery store.

Games?

[porcupine8]

I'm not a mom (yet - might be by the time xbox 4 rolls around, never know). But as a 20-something woman who plays video games a decent amount (not constantly, but a couple times a week), I have never had any desire to own an X-box. Nintendo has done a great job of giving me exactly the kind of games I want, from Mario to Zelda to Nintendogs. Is the 360 going to have those kinds of games? And there's no way in hell I'd ever spend over $300 on a console. Heck, I don't even spend over $100 on consoles. (Which means, yes, I'll have to wait for a Revolution a bit.)

*My* mom freaks out when she plays video games - she's the type who yelps every time she gets near a bad guy, and swings the controller around in her attempts. There's only one console maker who seems to be trying to cater to her, and it's not XBox!

Re:Games?

[porcupine8]

Thus you must never have had any desire to do any console online gaming, correct?

Um, not really. MarioKart might be fun online. If, y'know, all my friends who don't live near me had the same system as me. Which isn't all that likely. Some of my friends have a console of one type or another, some play PC games, some don't play video games really at all.

Sorry, but not having to get my friends together in one place to avoid playing against a horrid CPU is REVOLUTIONary.

Yeah, god forbid you should have to be social.

Do you really, honestly think that moms (the point of this thread) give a rat's ass whether they can play online? Most moms I know are so desperate for non-work-related adult contact that they'd *much* rather have people come over to play.

Re:Games?

[Anonymous Coward]

If online gaming is so important than why does the 'leader' in online gaming (Microsoft) not have the largest market share and why do they only have 10% of their users playing games online?

Oh yeah, much like Nintendo said online gaming wasn't all that important in the last generation ...

The fact is that Sega believed that online gaming would ensure the Dreamcast's success; they included the hardware to connect to the online service that they created (at a massive cost). Sega worked hard and created games (and attracted developers to create games) that produced online content for the Dreamcast. With this expense, and effort, Sega (like Microsoft a few years later) was unable to really attract users through the offer of online games.

Regardless of whether it sounds nice, or if it is really what you want, Nintendo was correct with protecting their bottom line and not wasting money on something where there is no market.

Now, I think what has happened over the past 4 years is Nintendo's stance has changed because they see a possible way to produce a service that is better than XBox live for the average console owner (ie. not the hardcore user who wants a 'gamer profile'); simple easy to use set up, just plug in the usb wireless dongle into your PC if you don't own a wireless router; no cost for first party (and probably the majority of third party) games, thus no costly overhead for people who don't use it that much; and potentially the games they choose to bring online, and how online is incorporated into games (it could be traditional competition in games like Super Smash Bros. or Metroid, co-operative in a game like Pokemon, or comunicational in a game like Animal Crossing).

Now about Nintendo being a follower, on the NES (well famicom because this was in Japan) Nintendo released an attachment to enable online (well master-slave) videogame playing; no one bought it. I believe that they tried again on the snes (but I'm not positive) and that on the N64 an early draft of the 64DD contained a modem.

Nintendo has failed to inspire gamers with online content, saw Sega fail to inspire gamers with online content, and decided not to waste their money on the Gamecube; can you blaim them considering the XBox lost Microsoft over $4 BILLION (or $200 PER SYSTEM).

Re:Games?

[KDR_11k]

Multiplayer is nice but it's not the be-all-end-all of gaming. Many games simply don't lend themselves to multiplayer so online is a wasted effort on those. Games like Super Mario Bros, Final Fantasy or even GTA are better left singleplayer. There is no way to enjoy an immersive world if you have those stupid kiddies screaming profanities or a game design meant to keep you playing for months on content that would barely last ten hours without all the grind. Sure, online is nice for multiplayer games but the vast majority of the games I play are singleplayer. Does a horror adventure become more frightening when played with random people? Does a Jump & Run play better if the enemies are intelligent?

Bow Before Your Nintendo

[Blakey Rat]

This is Slashdot.org, in case you forgot. Just the subject line "Nintendo Leads Again" is enough for a +5 Informative or Insightful... anything beyond that is just filler.

I think I'll name this reply "Bow Before Your Nintendo" to get the same moderation response.

Moms don't have time to play XBOX

[tepp]

Okay, first off, I'm a gamer girl. I own an XBOX, a PS2, an alienware laptop, and a Sega Saturn.

I am not a Mom.

MS - you want gamer girls? Fine. You can successfully market to Gamer Girls. But don't insult us by going for 'Gamer Moms'.

I don't know any "Gamer Moms!" And that just offends me, as a non-mom Gamer Girl, to be lumped in the same category as the Moms. You do know that some women choose not to have children? Or don't have them yet?

The women I know who are moms don't play video games anymore. It's the hormones, I think. They spend all day watching barney or little einstein, cleaning the house and changing the dipers, dealing with play-dates and doctors appointments and soccer practice. At the end of the day, they make dinner, do laundry, and finally collapse on the couch with their husbands just in time to catch a little tv - MAYBE - and something that is kid-safe, or that the kids won't understand, like Sex in the City. Not some violent frag-fest.

In fact, once my normal women friends become moms, they go all wierd. I swear, it's the hormones. Things that were perfectly fine before they became moms are now major no-nos. Like saying "screwed". Heck, it's not even a swear word! Like rolling up people in Katamari Damacy. That's not violent! But they go all ballistic about that. If it isn't totally pastel colored and round with no sharp edges and nobody gets even a tiny booboo, then it's threatening to their children and even to them if there's no kid around. It saddens me, but I end up loosing touch with friends when they become moms. They suddenly go on this crusade to save the world from all that isn't in their sugar coated version of "safe".... regardless of how it affects mature adults.

Take violent game laws for example, despite the M rating, the moms don't even want those games sold in stores! Talk about overreacting.

Anyway, MS, don't insult us gamer girls. Some of us are choosing not to have children, or some of us don't have children yet, those are the ones you want to go after. Not "gaming moms". I can see it now... Gaming Moms use Bounce detergent!

Re:Moms don't have time to play XBOX

[spx]

In the nicest way put, your post is offensive to the gamer moms. I can understand why you stated what you did, but did you re-read to see if what you wrote would be offensive to any others, the actual post answers no. I am a gamer, and I am a mother, now you know one. I was a gamer first and a mother second. You have no reason to be offended if they are targeting 'gamer mothers' when most of the time its the parents who are freaking out over the differant rated games their child are playing (think back to why alot of games are being re-rated nowadays). Yes mothers do alot of work around the house, but many of us still game. There *ARE* gaming mothers out there, do not think we do not exist. Mothers do alot of things, and usally run on low sleep and low fuel but still get everything acomplished thats needed, gaming sometimes is just an extra and sometimes its something to share with your child. Im sure if you enjoy gaming as much as the most I know do, and when you become a parent, you will still try to squeeze in some killtime (good way to destress after a long day). Maybe your friends had a hormone imbalance, but being a mom never stopped me from gaming and I never got 'weird'. If you are losing touch with your friends just because they change after becoming a parent, I think you have some serious issues. There is a differance between gaming for fun and making it your entire life. Your post makes others think how much you care between a game and a true friend. And again, as most of your thoughts on your post, not every mother wants games to be off the racks at stores. From when the news broke over the grammie with the issues of re-rated games, I had replied this as the topic off a friends forum http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/fun.games/07/27/game. lawsuit.ap/index.html If she cant read the labels, its her own damn fault. My son more than likely would not be playing this game (or something like Leisure Suit Larry) until he is mature, and seeing his father..........not any time soon. She needs better judgment, and abit of comman sense. I think pretty soon, it will be like the old movie rental places, where there is the family section and the adult section, if not....its going to be damn hard to find some of the good games that most mature people I know now play. Im pretty sure if it were up to ole grannie here, none of the PS2 games that many (myself inculded) play would be legal anymore. For now though, grannie shall not rule this castle and all the 'scenes' are free on our 60" tv. I really think you should word your post' with abit more tact. You have insulted numerous females I know, and besides it being flamebait, it makes it look like a 2nd grader wrote it, with the thoughts of a very selfish and egotistical person. So heres the thing, lots of people game, do not stipulate that just b/c someone is a mother (what about fathers?) they dont game. Our 60" here proves all in the household love to game. I think the Xbox and the PS and everything else (besides the 4 computers in our office) show that much. Now, back to the article in hand. They are targeting for the same reason any smart company would: to pull in what customers they are lacking. Its not a stupid idea, for the most part, it would have more people gaming, so what is wrong with that? Alot of females play scarce from the geek/gaming/cars/anything else male dominated world. Why would anyone be upset that more people are gaming, if anything (think from the company side) - more sales - more customers with (hopefully) more demands and suggestions to better the product = more games Anyone see something seriously wrong with this? If you can game (and your not an attention bag just looking for some people to 'wow' at you), bring it on, the good ones always love a nice challege. As stated here: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=164784&cid=137 54203 And yes, Im a mother......and? :D

Re:Moms don't have time to play XBOX

[Juanvaldes]

Holy shit it's the paragraph from hell.

Re:Moms don't have time to play XBOX

[mwvdlee]

Sometimes I just don't read post because... well... look at your post, man!

The "Enter" key is located on the right hand side of the alphabetic portion of the keyboard, it usually shows the word "Enter" on it and/or a big arrow pointing down and left. Pressing it will skip to the next line. Just try it, it's easy!
See?

There's a rule-of-thumb that says longer messages contain less information than short ones; they need a lot more obfuscation.

Re:Moms don't have time to play XBOX

[spx]

haha on the Holy Shit...... I agree with the one that stated "I think Microsoft is aiming for two things. First, is convincing those mom's to buy Xbox360 for Christmas. Spending $400+ on your son for Xmas sounds a bit extreme but if you convince the mom it's a family gift, it's not so bad." But for the length in the post'........I do use the enter key, look its right here but sometimes even with massive space between, it still comes out looking like I dont know what the enter key is really for. As a mom, Im lucky (I gamed alot when pregy) and his dad spent most all of the pregy time gaming (Why I refuse to play Metal of Honor) he was ready to be born into the gaming world. Now I am getting him his own first gaming system this coming Xmas, and it will not be Xbox, I just see him breaking that for some reason.......maybe b/c his parents are mostly all more for the PS.....anyways, any suggestions?

it's all about justifying the purchase

[truffle]

There was extensive discussion of this on the International Game Developer's Association women in the games industry mailing list. The overall conclusions of this discussion were:

Microsoft is not trying to appeal to Mom gamers, they are trying to provide information to help you convince mom (your wife, your actual mom) that purchasing an X-box 360 is a justifiable expense. Women are often the financial gatekeepers in a household. Unless you're quite wealthy, spending $300-400 on a new console system is going to involve "running it by mom". If you can tell Mom, "it's a DVD player" and "we can view our photos on it" and "we can listen to music on it" it makes it sound like more than just a game machine, it makes it sounds like a home entertainment device. This might be slightly easier to sell Mom on than "it's the next big console!"

Furthermore these same arguments can help people who are their own financial gatekeepers reach the same conclusion. Living alone? Got a job but not a tonne of money to burn? Research has shown that when purchasing an expensive item, consumers often need to come up with some kind of justification for why the purchase in question is worth it. This is in part why high-end items often have extra arguably useless features. These extra features help you build a case in your head that spending the extra money "is worth it".

Microsoft doesn't have delusions of halo playing housewives, this is all part of convincing families and individuals that the 360 is more than just a gaming machine so they'll be willing to purchase it.

Re:it's all about justifying the purchase

[spx]

Your post is informative, sometime good to see here as lately its been missing quite abit. I read that article and I understand (Im sure when I was a kid I would have tried to pull that just as well lol). I would so be playing H2 between everything else I do, I tried Halo on the computer didnt like it so, then tried H2 on the 60", made a big differance, but being the typical Aquarian I am, I was bored quickly with it, so tend to jump between games a good bit. If a large company can sell you the idea to buy something because it can do a bazillion more things, it will try to, its up to you the consumer to figure out whats good to purchase and what you will just end up losing your money over.

Re:it's all about justifying the purchase

[Anonymous Coward]

"If you can tell Mom, 'it's a DVD player' and 'we can view our photos on it' and 'we can listen to music on it'" ...the fact is if Microsoft didnt include those pointless features then the price of the console will drop to a reasonable price.

Huh?

[Guppy06]

And what exactly are these moms going to play? Extreme Beach Volleyball? On second thought, I'd be interested to see these moms as well...

In all seriousness, I know there are women out there that play Xbox and all, but mothers ain't exactly their target audience, never have been, and likely never will be. All they can hope to find is a mother that thinks and acts like an 18-24 year-old guy, and I doubt that's the kind of person they want to parade around in advertising campaigns to appeal to a broader audience.

It's not about the gamers, it's about the games.

Re:Huh?

[spx]

No Im not too much for the sports games, once in awhile hockey or football, but rare. http://www.pengi.org/ps2/chix/ Is what is currently being played (Champions: Return to Arms). We have both ps and xbox, but I prefer the ps (tend to like more games they put out), and the xbox is kinda flakey for us, we need another one I think. I prefer the ps controllers too (their just abit more comfy for me). Your right, their not the target, but alot of mothers (fathers too) will go out and purchase a gaming system for their kid, so they are (company sided) right to target who actually purchases it. If a company can talk a parent into 'this is why its good to get for your kid', imagine all the parents rushing out to fight with other parents around xmas time to get a gaming system. And your right, it is about the games, so lets all be happy and GO KILL SOMETHING. :)

Re:Huh?

[Guppy06]

"If a company can talk a parent into 'this is why its good to get for your kid',"

But most of what Microsoft offers the state of California won't let retailers sell to unacompanied minors. It'd be like Guiness looking to make a good impression on mothers ("The Kid-Friendly Beer!(TM)"). At the very least, most of the Xbox-exclusive games aren't parent-acceptable; it'd make more sense to get a PS2 (like yourself).

And no, before anybody accuses, I'm not a rabid Sony fanboy, I'm a Nintendo fanboy.

Re:Huh?

[spx]

When I said the 'this is why..' I was thinking more along what someone else stating with the kid going 'well it can play our movies, etc'.......... I dont think any (possible online w/child using parents cc#) will allow in any state a child to purchase anything over like 100usd (Im pretty sure my state wont). Most of the xbox games I played, like I said, I just really didnt like, I dont think it was anything against the xbox (even though I razz fiance for it being 'mircosoft') but Im all about the PS2..... I went thru the Nintendo fan(girl) deal, and the Sega (just about all, I think we still have a dreamcast floating around here too), but its all about the PS now in my 'olden days'....now thining about Nintendo and the olden days, I really wanna play some QBert.....

It's the games - stupid!

[Tryfen]

It's easy to get women to play games. My girlfriend* plays on the Xbox all the time. Her current top games are

Buffy - great story, familiar characters, easy controls, logical puzzles.

Lego Star Wars - great story, familiar characters, easy controls, logical puzzels.

Puyo Puyo - pretty graphics, easy controls, logical puzzels.

Make games that are fun - not a chore. Games that can be picked up again after a week or month without having to releasrn the ABAXYA button combo. Games that *gasp* are fun.

TR

*Who is not my mother - you sicko!

Re:It's the games - stupid!

[aBlooMoon]

Out of curiousity, other than the three listed, have you found any other games for the xbox that appeal to her (and/or the both of you)?

So far, my xbox is as of yet untouched by my wife. She much prefers the Gamecube, and is always tied up in Animal Crossing. She also enjoyed Pikmin and Eternal Darkness.

You know what baffles me?

[Moraelin]

I'll aggree wholeheartedly with you, but I think the big picture is even more baffling than that.

See, the full "story" is that in the beginning, a.k.a., in the days of Pong and PacMan, the industry had a pretty good 50-50 gender distribution and they knew it. Then somewhere along the road they somehow decided that "chicks don't play games", making games only for horny 16 year old males is all that's needed, and using women as sex objects to sell to games to those males is perfectly ok.

What's fascinating is that it's the exact opposite road than what, say, the car industry took. The car industry started by promoting its cars as things for Real Men (and we're still stuck with a generation or two who still think that their penis size _depends_ on their car and on driving like a homicidal psycho) and presenting women as the prize you'll get for having that car. Then it finally dawned upon them that "hey, you know what? we could have twice the market if we dropped that silly notion that cars are only for men." So nowadays you have not only cars marketted to women, or named to sound like the women's version (e.g., Fiat "Bravo", masculine, and Fiat "Brava", feminine), but recently we even have cars _designed_ for women.

The gaming industry did the exact same road in reverse. They started by selling games to both, then decided they'd rather alienate half the market. It fascinates me. How and why does a whole industry get that kind of an idiotic idea?

And I can't even pin the blame on immature male programmers. Most of these decisions go through a publisher anyway. We're taling business people there, not immature nerds. I can see how a horny male nerd would go "but I really wanna see tits and ass" when making a game, but how do you get a bunch of businessmen to cheerfully give up half the market?

In fact, here's a very recent such screw-up that happened at the publisher, or at least with the publisher's blessing.

You've mentioned The Sims yourself, and yes, it was _the_ game that appealed to more women than any others, as well as to a lot of adult casual gamers. It was a game that, as released, didn't even have any sex or violence. And it appealed to a lot of people _because_ of that. (I'm sure you know that already, but bear with me.)

So then EA publishes The Sims 2. How do they market it? Well, I can tell you that at least here, I ran into pages after pages of ads in magazines, all hammering on the same aspect: sex. Sex in bed, sex on the sofa, sex in the kitchen, sex with the neighbour lady while the wife is away, threesome sex with the neighbour lady _and_ the wife, sex, sex, sex. Add to that the trailer clip with the woman ripping off her clothes and jumping on the guy... I think about half a dozen times in a fairly a short clip.

It's fascinating, really. Some idiot marketroid at EA basically ran an ad campaign that just didn't match the target demographic for it. In fact, one which was outright offensive to a large part of the target demographic. Someone at EA just couldn't get his head out of his ass, and out of the mentality that games are made for, and marketted to, horny 16 year old males.

And then come such stories in which everyone wonders how they can bring women back to gaming, and how much they'd like to get their money too. And it _still_ doesn't occur to them what the problem is? It makes me wonder WTF are these people smoking, really.

People waste their time other ways too!

[Anonymous Coward]

Like going down to the pub... every day... every-every day.... of your life.

Or watching 22 men kick a ball around.

Apparently its the most popular thing to do in the UK, goddamn repetitive and boring as hell to boot.

So try different games?

[Moraelin]

Casual gamers can be into very different kinds of games than us hardcore folk. Hardcore gamers want a challenge, danger, and spectacular ways to fail or to defeat someone. E.g., when I won a race in a game by pushing my opponent to crash directly into a bridge pillar, it made my day. It was _the_ ultimate victory. When I tried getting mom to play the same game, she wasn't even interested.

Additionally, yes, you've noticed a very real phenomenon, non-gamers and casual gamers tend to show more empathy towards the NPCs. You and I have been desensitized. We _know_ they're just NPCs, they're not real, they don't have feelings, they're just there to be abused. But non-gamers haven't been brought to this "it's not real" state of mind yet. (Incidentally, that's also what causes the media hysteria over games. To a non-gamer, the things you do in a game are the actions of a deranged psychopath.)

But try telling a non-gamer that, for example, you gave your Cow in Black and White a savage beating. Mom was appaled by the idea that I beat up an animal. Or I was telling her about my playing Tropico (a sorta city-building sim, themed around a stereotypical central-american dictatorship), and how I made everyone live in the cheapest flats, made all TV stations broadcast my propaganda, and so on. Yep, you guessed, she was appaled.

But knowing that, you can also get an idea that you need different kinds of games to get a non-gamer hooked. (I.e., also that MS would need to start actually produce games for moms, if they want moms playing their games.)

E.g., I had no problems whatsoever getting mom addicted to Lumines or various other abstract puzzle games. Or for that matter to cutesy jump puzzles like Mario 64.

E.g., after I got her past her horror to what I'm doing to those poor people, mom actually got addicted to Tropico. She actually enjoyed taking good care of those little simulated people. She tried keeping everyone employed, sheltered, and generally happy.

For that matter, I also got grandma, a totally computer-illiterate old woman, who's never touched a keyboard or mouse before, addicted to Sierra's "Emperor: Rise of The Middle Kingdom". And speaking of empathy towards NPCs, after she went back home, she called me a few times to ask how are those people doing. Apparently she thought that village she's built keeps functioning when she's not there. Go figure.

Etc.

Again, it's actually very possible to make a game that non-gamers can get started on, once you realize what their perceptions and priorities are, and how much they differ from those of a die-hard hardcore gamer. Whether MS is actually going to do that, though, I wouldn't know. Seeing how much a modern publisher misunderstands that market, I'd rather bet they're just gonna dump a bunch of non-gamers in the middle of a FPS frag fest, put them in a tiny bikini and give them moaning sounds if they're female, and have a bunch of 12 year olds call them nasty names. And then the publisher's staff goes back to scratching their heads and wondering why did those non-gamers go back to not playing games. I mean, it was all good fun, right? RIGHT? Why would anyone not buy our console after they've experienced all that fun?

You want mom's?

[JavaLord]

Do they want moms as in the 14-30 year old demographic? That should be easy enough for them. If they want the 30+ female gamers of today, there is only one solution.

Buy popcap games. Or clone them. Same with the puzzle type games at yahoo. This might offend some, but the majority of gamers that are female and over the age of 30-35 want puzzle games and pretty much nothing else. Maybe, something like the sims could fly but it's unlikely. Most women I know in that demographic look for something with a simple ruleset and controls that they can play and move on. There are of course those 30+ females who play mmorpgs, but that is a small market compared to the snood/bejewled/bookworm crowd.

Re:You want mom's?

[CardiganKiller]

I agree. Women of that age don't really have this need for a massive entertainment adrenaline rushing blowout. The types of games we males play are stressful, and why we willfully subject ourselves to that stress and intensity goes pretty deep into the male psyche. Not to say that women can't be just as aggresive, I always end up getting hurt playing soccer with my younger sisters. Girls just don't have that primal need to express aggression, dominance, and ego in video games. We're the product of evolution, it's in our blood... KILL KILL KILL, DESTROY, and PWN. I'm 23, working on my masters degree, being mr. academic, all that... but put me in a Halo 2 game with a bunch of 14-17 year olds and I'm back to jeering and pwning with the rest of them. I can't help it. Girls seem to be able to help it though, and therefore they don't need the rush and excitement... just something stimulating enough to make the game worth playing, none of this appeal to the mighty heroic save the earth slay the aliens type of character. Girls don't seem to have that complex. Lucky them, they save the hundreds of bucks we shell out on games that appeal to our psyche. Most guys I know are not the alpha male aggressive types, but you put them in a video game... and it all comes out, even if they're not shouting like monkeys, you can see the determination in the way they play. I haven't met many guys who simply didn't care whether they won or lost over an extended period of time. If you get beat on for long enough, your ego flares up and you want to get better so you can dish it out. Ego is a funny thing.

Re:You want mom's?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry this sounds like an ad, but Microsoft is already doing exactly this, via Xbox Live Arcade.

You can do this on Xbox 1 (or xbox 360 stripped down old hardware beta), but you need an Arcade disk (included in xbox live starter kits, some games) to install, and a Live subscription.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/livearcade/default.htm?l evel1=enuslive&level2=contentdownloads5&level3=liv earcade

They already have PopCap on board (bejeweled, bookworm, astropop), and
other games that seem ported from the web. Most of the games are simple and/or updates of older game styles not well served by today's console market (side scrolling shooters, marble madness, etc.).

Not sure if they're worth the $10 pricetag, but I think this former add-on (and Media Center Extender too) is going to be standard out of the box, though will probably require the hard drive to play. Including Hexic on the hard drive points to this happening.

Well, I can sorta see her point too

[Moraelin]

Actually, while the GP post _is_ offensive and does have all the tact and style of a 12 year old, I can sorta see how she got that idea too.

It's not just about women. Since you do ask "what about fathers?", I can say I've seen the exact same thing happen to fathers.

I have a male co-worker who couldn't even stop from talking about Counter-Strike. Heck, I'm a hardcore gamer myself, but even by my standards that guy was just obsessed. He _lived_ for that one game, and had no other topic than his work and that. Ever since he's got a son last year, I don't think he's totalled more than a couple of hours of gaming in the whole year. He never even mentions the game any more.

(And thank goodness for that, let me say. I'm a hardcore gamer myself, but it was so unbelievably boring to hear someone talking about the same game and the same 2-3 maps for 3 years straight. Enough is enough, you know. But I digress.)

What I'm saying is that there _is_ a big change in people, or at least some people, when they become parents. I'm sure that might change back later, maybe when the kid is at the age where they can play together, but the initial change can be very very abrupt. I can see how it would give someone ideas like "wtf, is that even the same person? I swear it's the hormones or something." I'm sure the "clan"-mates of the guy I've mentioned must have asked themselves the exact same thing.

Re:Well, I can sorta see her point too

[ShibaInu]

While I'm not a hard core gamer at all, I did (and do) enjoy playing regularly. Since I've been married and had a kid, my free time is very limited. Let's face it, even playing on line, being a gamer is a selfish activity. When you have a spouse and kid(s), your time and energy is spent on other people. I think the problem Microsoft faces is that when you have only an hour a week or so to game, you aren't going to spend $400 for a new system. My PC works great for gaming...

Re:Well, I can sorta see her point too

[LoverOfJoy]

I see what you're saying and I agree that those who only have an hour or two a week to spend on gaming aren't going to spend $400 for a new system. I don't think that's what Microsoft is trying to do, though.

I think Microsoft is aiming for two things. First, is convincing those mom's to buy Xbox360 for Christmas. Spending $400+ on your son for Xmas sounds a bit extreme but if you convince the mom it's a family gift, it's not so bad. Sure, mostly little Johnny will play it but you can also use it to play music while he's at school, show photos to friends, etc. They are trying to get mom to see it like the first VCR or DVD player. The whole family will get use out of it even if it's primarily for a child. This may be a bit of a stretch but it could be a selling point to a number of moms. I'm sure it was with the Playstation 2. Sure, the features they mention are also available on many dvd players but often mom's aren't even aware of those features (I know my wife was surprised when I told her about these features on our dvd player). Every little bit counts.

Secondly, I think Microsoft is thinking of more games being sold. Sure, if you don't have much time to play games you won't spend $400 to buy a game machine. But if you have kids that already have that game machine, why not spend $20-30 on a fun puzzle game to boot. My guess is that MS gets an equal amount (per game) from 3rd party distributers who make cheap puzzle games as they do from those who make the expensive hardcore games. MS probably wants to expand a bit toward those parents who already have a system for their kids but would never buy one on their own.

Moms playing video games

[Phantasmo]

I tried, I tried! My mom hates video games because it's either a damsel in distress or chainmail bikini situation. She just hates the way that women are portrayed.
I showed her Metroid Prime and she exclaimed, "Oh, so she's just fulfilling the role of a man! This game is so sexist."
So, screw it! Feminists just can't like video games.

Re:Moms playing video games

[mink]

Try "The longest Journey" a computer game, but a decent strong female lead. I think Beyond Good and Evil falls into the same range of strong female lead who isn't at either end of the spectrum you mention.

Seems to me...

[mjhacker]

My wife play video games, just as much as I do (We're both 19 and 20). We own all the current generation systems. We both play FPS, fighters, RPGs, MMORPGs, etc. If you suggested "girlier" games like puzzles and cutesier platformers, she would look at you in disgust and say "I play REAL games." I think it is pointless to attempt to appeal to the non-gaming female crowd. Most of the moms I know refuse to buy a game system for their kids if it has violent games on it. If you dumb down games and make them cutesy, you're going to risk losing your hardcore crowd of REAL gamers. And if you make cute little puzzle or platform games, there's no guarentee that the demographic you're aiming for will buy into it. There's really no pleasing everyone, so why jeapordize your integrity to try? Besides, Nintendo has already monopolized on cute and quirky games.

Re:Seems to me...

[Carrot007]

I felt like writing an inteligent comment to your post but then I though, nah,

HA HA you suck!

All part of MS's strategy

[elrous0]

1) Market videogame system to 40-year-old Moms

2) Have all technical support lines flooded with thousands of questions like "How do I plug it in?" and two hour sessions which end with "Oh, so you mean I have to put the disc in before it will work?"

3) Face a mountain of returns from women who thought "wireless" meant no power cable or connection to the TV.

3) ??

4) Profit!!

-Eric

you know why women don't wear watches...

[UltimaL337Star]

there's a clock on the stove they added to the new xbox 360

Yup WoW is the trick

[Jthon]

If Microsoft is planning on attracting Mom Gamers they need to get WoW ported to their console. Previous to this game the only games my Mother, who is in the 40+ age group, would touch is Freecell, Spider Solitare and any other little puzzle games she could find (usually just whatever comes with Windows).

But over the summer my Mother started playing WoW on my account at the urging of my brothers. Now I have to fight with her over game time. Since I no longer live at home I find myself being kicked off WoW at all times of the day as she logs in to play her character. I think she is spending more time on the game than I or my brother's do.

She isn't the best player by far but she is slowly impoving and I don't see her stopping anytime soon. I'm quite amazed I can call and find that she has spent most of her day wandering around completing quests online. I can see the time coming when I can't play because she's on a MC raid while I'm still hoping to pick up my class set from early raid instances.

"J. Allard Predicts Disappointment at 360 Launch"

[DeadScreenSky]

I don't know, that doesn't sound like the title of an astroturfing effort to me.

There's definitely probably a little astroturfing going on by MS. But it's also pretty likely that we see a lot of Xbox360 news because there is a lot of Xbox360 news right now. Most gaming forums I visit have a lot of discussion about it because of the inpending launch, so it doesn't seem weird to me that you would have a lot of focus on it on Slashdot. You can only have so many articles about the PS3 and especially Revolution so far, just because there is very little info still available (not that that stops a huge portion of Revolution articles, but is it astroturfing when Nintendo fanboys do it out of religious obligation?).