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Verso Trials Skype Blocking in China
An anonymous reader writes to tell us MacWorld is reporting that Verso, a US company based in Atlanta, GA, has just begun a paid trial for 'NetSpective'. Verso hopes to use NetSpective, and M-Class filter to block VoIP calls made using Skype in China. From the article: "While Verso said in its release that the use of Skype is illegal in China, the situation is more nuanced. Chinese government officials have been generally tolerant of VoIP software, such as Skype, that is used to make calls from one PC to another. But the ability of Skype users to make calls to a phone via the SkypeOut service is more sensitive, because this directly affects the revenue that operators such as China Telecom earn from international phone calls." This seems to be just another in the continuing campaign of China vs VoIP.
Looks like VoIP is the chink in their armor
every time you use skype to subvert the rule of your oppresive government, god kills a kitten.
If these filters really work, wouldn't US carriers love to have them? Especially if there will be no enforcement of carrier neutrality? You get to use your network AND block activities that reduce your revenue in other wings of the business...
Hyperom.com
China - 1000000000
Skype - 0
So let me get this straight...
It's perfectly OK for everyone in China to blatantly pirate information, but all hell breaks loose when you try and make a VoIP phone call overseas from there.
You'd think they'd want information to be free or something, but I guess that everything just cuts one way with these guys.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
They currently earn NZ$900m profit per year out of a total NZ population base of approximately 4 million people, so any method to 'enhance shareholder value' (ie screw everybody else) is eagerly investigated. They plan(ned) to cripple VoIP via interleaving methods.
Blocking VoIP is hopeless. If they try to block computer to international phones, then Skype can set up servers in the US that take the computer to computer call and re-route it here, making a computer to computer call from China to the US indistingushable from a computer to US phone call. If they try to block all Skype calls, then Skype can just change its software enough to make it unrecognizable to the filter. If everyone just goes online and downloads the new version every week...
Basically, the Internet by definition is a lot harder to regulate than any other communication medium.
A lot of us became techies or engineers or what-not in the interests of making the world a better place for all. And we are constantly thwarted and bombarded by people with "business" or "political" sense.. (ie people with almost purely selfish and short-sighted motivations).
Will the power balance ever change.. is it possible for someone with a motivation to assist society in general to make it into a powerful position?
There is a Central American country that also has made VoIP illegal because of their interest in the state run/owned TelCo. I'm not certain if they have implemented anything other then laws around its use in country, but China is not the first to do this.
I wanna say the country is Panama, but I'm really not sure. Based on http://www.google.com.au/search?q=panama+voip+ille gal&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls =org.mozilla:en-US:official">Google it seems it's Costa Rica, but my point is there are probably a handful of countries doing this already. This by no means makes it ok, of course!
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
I think the market (read: developers) will merely adapt so that Skype (or any VOIP traffic) will be tunnelled over a SSH or TLS connection to a gateway, where it will then be converted back to normal VOIP traffic. Perhaps in the long term, VOIP developers will decide to use an universally accepted form of encryption (HTTPS, anyone?) so that VOIP traffic is indistinguishable from everyday traffic.
I'm sure there are latency issues in using TCP instead of UDP as the transport stream, and that a more elegant solution exists, but my point is that the market will drive the adoption of VOIP technology that will make it extremely difficult for third parties to block, short of blocking all outgoing comms.
For every glimmer of hope there seems to be a million more setbacks.
I only wish there was something I could do to stop companies doing this, but the nature of a free market doesn't allow for intervention really..
One the one hand, they have become a fairly rich country similar to where America was in 1940's-50s. They also believe that they belong in the international trading world. Cool. But, here they are blocking a service because it may (most likely will) compete with their established companies. So, even though they are one of the few countries with large positive growth (8-12% annual), and yet, they block on one of the few competitive groups. Total BS.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Back in the "days" when you didnt like the policy of a country, that country would get sanctioned.
I think countries should get "sanctioned" for censorship and abuse over the internet. The internet is ment to be the saviour, the free voice, the alternative.
If it was in my power I would block all telephone calls from china, if they are scared to lose revenue from skype then they shouldnt get any revenue.
Yeah, not going to happen and I am dreaming, but this is really a shocker. I live in South Africa where the cost of telecommunication is the highest in the world.
It is cheaper for me to fly to hong-kong and download 100gigs then it is to download from south africa (And faster I may add). We had all VOIP illegal until 2 years ago. Now we can use VOIP freely but with only 1 telecommunication provider in our country there revenue model is simply moving from phone charges to data charges.
But yeah, blocking skype out is ridiculous!
Talking on the phone is a subversive activity? Since when?
Even with encryption, it would be possible to determine some statistical properties of the data being transmitted (depending on how good the encryption is). Supposing they encrypt the data, but pauses between the data are transmitted in the clear, by simply not sending any encrypted packets. Then you could match up the frequencies and lengths of the packets in both directions with typical profiles of people speaking to each other, how often they draw breath, and so on.
The only way to defeat this would be to send encrypted data even during the pauses. Does Skype do this? Somehow I don't think so. The very fact that their protocol is all secret and proprietary suggests they aren't very bright.
There's got to be a simple change to the Skype protocol that will make it hard to detect and block. Randomizing ports, for example. If The Man can sniff out what Skype traffic looks like, encrypt it or create some mechanism that would generate random number "noise" to throw off the detection. That's about all I can come up with. Other than politics and laws, what methods could Skype do to make it difficult to be controlled?
What's the difference between companies like Verso, Yahoo, Cisco and Google which help the Chinese Communists oppress people, and the oil companies, industrial giants, and weapons manufacturers that have supported tyrants in exhange for access to their markets?
How many innocent people are in jail, or worse, because of their help? How much more free would the Chinese people be, and how much weaker would the Communist grip on power be, if it wasn't for the assistance of these tech companies? "Don't be evil"? -- How impressive and bold that they support free software, but not freedom (as in speech) for human beings.
It's easy for me to say; I don't have to take the risk. These companies certainly have a difficult dilemma and have other responsibilities to shareholders and employees. In their position, everyone wants to say, 'I just want to keep my head down and mind my own business'. Taking sides is a risky, costly, sometimes wasted (if Cisco doesn't provide firewalls, someone else will) and often unappreciated sacrifice.
But I think that with their power comes responsibility, and their freedom is due to the sacrifices of those who came before them. I would think Jerry Yang (Yahoo founder, born in Taiwan) and Sergey Brin (Google founder, born under Communist rule in the then USSR) would be especially sensitive to this issue.
(In fairness, I only have heard second hand what Google, Yahoo and Cicso do in China. Verso seems to proudly advertise their support for the Chinese Communists. And this publicity is probably helping their share price.)
Hell has a special corner for people like you. /hates puns
How exactly is developing a superior product that challenges an existing company nuanced?
Sounds like the same old story we've been seing since the start of the WWW. Disruptive technology enters, large comfortable companies start bribeing gov't officials to protect their jobs.
Nuanced... yet another over used word, that should be shot, burried, and layed to rest next to the Macaraena and "Thousand Points of Light".
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Thank God for Freedom of Spe-
*beating noises*
I'll subscribe to Slashdot when I see a month without a dupe, a typo, or an article the "editors" didn't read.
Funny how on the one hand we can get into wars "to bring democracy to the mid-East," yet at the same time actively support China in laying the beat-down on its citizens yet again. Why the hell is the government allowing companies to do this sort of business?! Let's try to have some sort of morals, hey?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
If I'm not mistaken, the entire point of China's communist viewpoint on this matter is to help society. They're not (purportedly) trying to be selfish; they're trying to keep money from Chinese people IN China, to do things like build roads, fund hospitals, and in general get things done for the Chinese people; if the money goes to Skype, the American corporate world uses it to fund American goals
"Im such a nonconformist I'm going to not conform to the rest of you!"
"Dude I think we just got goth-served"
The trouble is not that they do port blocking, the trouble probably is that they attack Skype at its core. The one thing Skype does do is when you want to sign on to authenticate you with their central server (Teledenmark?). So blocking this authentication is probably the way to go for these guys. On top of this they might block SkypeOut servers located at various data centers around the world, by just k-lining those IP-adresses. I read two papers on how Skype works and it does seem that it uses some easier to detect patterns in setting up connections.
So what to do: Trying to get around blocking of the interconnect to the PSTN is not easy. One could ofcourse route calls through another IP-adress (Supernode), but the question is how well this scales. Quickly alternating IP-adresses is also not a preferred option. However the main line of attack against Skype will run through their authentication servers, so could we just cut these out. If Skype generates a unique ID (some kind of hash) in a password protected file that you can just take away with you on a USB stick, they wouldn't absolutely need the authentication through the central servers. Just have the program search a node and let the unique ID propagate. Another way to work might be to do the authentication by routing it through other nodes.
now time for coffee
Use Adsense for Charity
Coorporations aren't moral, nor are they immoral. (which is to say, NOT moral)
Coorpoations are amoral where the moral situation is irrelevant to the financial one. A company exists to make money. The shareholders invested money so that the company would make a return. If the company fails, the shareholders get pissed, and that often spells disaster for the company.
Many people say it's immoral to eat meat, and yet many people do. To a person, animal flesh is food. To a corporation, money is food, and like people, a corporation will do just about anything to ensure a consisten supply of food (money).
I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
USA has also most weapons ....
A lot of us became techies or engineers or what-not in the interests of making the world a better place for all.
Yeah, right. We became techies because we're smart, like playing with computers/chemicals/electronics/whatever, and we'd get paid good money to do something we do for a hobby. Just because you and your hippie faggot friends think you can "make the world a better place", doesn't mean that the rest of us believe in that rubbish. Put the bong down, get away from campus, and step into the real world. Nobody fucking cares if the fucking Communist Chinese want to ass rape their citizens when it comes to international phone calls.Q: Why is everyone so obsessed about China?
A: China is the ultimate paradox. On the one hand they have become a fairly rich country similar to where America was in 1940's-50s. They also believe that they belong in the international trading world. But on the other hand, they are blocking a service because it may (most likely will) compete with their established companies.
Q: I heard that China is always cruel or mean. What's their problem?
A: Whoever told you that is a total liar. Just like other countries, China can be mean OR totally awesome.
Q: What does China do when they're not cutting off dissidents' heads or blocking Skype?
A: Most of their free time is spent building ballistic missiles and spacecraft, but sometime they begin a pilot program to create arcologies in rural parts of the country. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)
Sorry, couldn't resist.
"...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
Right now, if you are a broadband subscriber, most likely your provider already filters stuff like inbound SMTP, partial outbound SMTP traffic and the like. And you all accept it. And almost all ISP's do it, so you are almost left no choice. Or did you base your provider decision on its filtering policy? If you permit SMTP filtering, then your ISP can choose to filter anything they want later. The choice to allow SMTP filtering on your ISP is the choice to not pay for complete IP connectivity, but for a crippled and filtered one.
The only difference with Skype in China is, that the filtering entity is the government and people do not have a choice to switch the carrier. But then, do you have the choice?
That said, right now Skype still works well and I call daily to Shanghai, as well as using SkypeOut to China, but who knows how long it will remain so...
It's not really about free speech here. It's just the chinese goverment protecting it's profits.
Well.. guess that's why the corporations seem to get so well along with these guys.
At this rate, Communist China is going to be one of the most devoutly Capitalist countries in no time. And here I thought the term "Communism" couldn't become more corrupted, being applied for decades (hell, nearly a century now) to corrupt oppresive regimes serving only themselves with no regard for any of the humanistic principles that Marx stood for . . . then we get a corrupt, opressive regime that manages to implement capitalism on top of all that counter-Marxism, and they still spout the hollow propaganda!
Wow. What a two-faced world we live in . . .
I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
1) Start a company in a country founded on the principles of freedom of speech.
2) Develop technology to block legitimate use of software.
3) Sell to a government eager to control its people, using the vague pretense of trying to protect a different company's interests to legitimise the transaction. It helps if you ignore item 1) here.
4) Profit!
What i find really intresting is that every now and then China is mentioned on ./, often followed by a massive amount of "OMG they are suppressing freedom of speech and silencing people", people are really bothered by Chinas oppressive behaviour, and quite frankly for a good reason.
But compare it to the our workplaces, i mean, many workplaces has a communication policy, and in many cases it's just as suppressive and undemocratic as Chinas behaviour with the exception that we dont get jailed.
Then there's this "if you dont like it, get a new job" thing, which is supposed to indicate freedom of choice, but if you've got kids and bills to pay, thats not a choice.
So many of us are effectivly only having at best 2/3 of a democratic and free day, the remaining 1/3 of the day (if not more, due to overtime), is spent in a corporate dictatorship.
Dont believe me? try questioning things at work, you'll soon see where the invisible glass walls are.
Whats even worse is that it's cutting into companies profits, how many times have YOU thought about a procedure, a routine or some way things work, and thought up a better way to do it, more efficient, and just kept that to yourself because you didn't wanna pee in a hornets nest?
This is China we're talking about. People have gotten a bullet behind the ear for relatively innocuous (to us) offenses. I'm not so sure I'd be the one to be playing that kind of cat and mouse game when the potential penalty could be something a lot more serious that the fine or frivolous lawsuit that someone in the west might face in similar circumstances.
I travel to China several times a year for business and frequently use Skype because it is vastly cheaper to make calls not only overseas, but to places like Hong Kong. Other posters have already mentioned, this is purely a revenue play and has nothing to do with "oppression."
..is that the former don't issue press releases.
"Capital eschews no profit, or very small profit, just as Nature was formerly said to abhor a vacuum. With adequate profit, capital is very bold. A certain 10 per cent. will ensure its employment anywhere; 20 per cent. certain will produce eagerness; 50 per cent., positive audacity; 100 per cent. will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 per cent., and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged." - Thomas Dunning, 1840.
Lisp is the Tengwar of programming languages.
When subverting the government of China, you're a freedom loving hero.
When subverting the government of any other country around the world, you're a jingoistic, imperialist, racist conqueror.
I love the intellectual dishonesty.
How pathetic are you that you follow me from topic to topic and waste all your mod points at once modding me down?
That's it, I can't stand these oppressive dictatorshit motherfuckers any longer they are only human like you and me, and they bleed the same, HELL, why can't we just kill them all, why do we all collectively let them fuck up our lives, like those billions of chinese, and in other countries too, this stands for all the hitlers saddams maos and bushes of this world, along with the riaas and the greedy corporate overlords that control this corrupt rotten exploitative capitalist shit that we live in, WHY DON'T WE KILL THEM ALL TODAY, seriously life is short anyway, so why make it this shit - why do we let them?
I can't send voice data over the net abroad, because you, opressive fucker fear for your pathetic power that you have? You fear that I might speak wrongly about you? You're protecting your profits? I hope you all drown in your own fucking lungs, fuck you.
...of MegaGlobalChemCo, Ltd., maker's of fine nerve agents since 1914
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
This is just plain dumb. How long do they think it will be before the VOIP/P2P/Other apps just encapsulate everything in SSL and shunt it over port 443?
I used to work at a school, and we had to filter. Moreover, we had to spend money on it, so no DansGuardian on Squid. Verso's Netspective looked interesting, it would block p2p services by spoofing an RST packet. It would spoof an "image blocked" jpg, png, gif, etc. based on the ability to beat the internet's traffic back to the site.
I have been using this in the US for a few weeks now.
How do the employees of these companies sleep at night? Helping a government repress its people. I guess the pillows stuffed with fluffy dollars probably help.
I hate sigs.
And the award for Most Confusing Slashdot Article Subject goes to....
Verso is the bad guy here, not China. China is just doing what centralized power structures always do: Eat people.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
you suck!
-everphilski-
Hate to say it, but after living in Beijing for the last 20 months this place is nothing like the USA level of the 1940-50s. Not even the USA level of the depression years.
Yeah, there are some hot spots, like parts of Beijing and Shanghai that have built up huge capital because of all the (for all intents and purposes) slave labor but most of the country is no wear like that. Addionally the buildup of basic education and health care services is just beginning.
Additionally we have to remember there is basically a fascist oligarchy in charge of it all, make sure the majority of any profits are pooled into their hands or into the pockets of their friends.
Peace, or Not?
Sounds like Skype uses a Napster model (central server).
Oh well, that means when Skype dies a new service will rise from the ashes, using a Bittorrent model.
It's not even necessarily about free calls (which is completely different from free speech). Of course there are companies who offer their own VoIP solutions and want to block all others because it cuts into their revenues. Other companies, like Vonage and eBay, want to profit from Skype and don't want it to be blocked. How is this different from any other technology ever invented?
;-)
;-), or anyone else doing something shady, Skype would be my first choice for communications.
However, there are even more companies who want to block Skype because it's encrypted, nearly impossible to track, and devious enough to get around even the tightest set of firewall rules. In the USA, the SEC has demanded that publicly-traded companies either block or trace/log every communication going into and out of the company for insider trading investigations (I believe it's called the Sarbanes-Oxley Act). So by law, public US companies either have to block Skype or find a way to trace/log all Skype traffic on their network. Government offices and military bases have very similar concerns.
Plus, several government agencies, the US and Israel in particular, are worried that terrorist organizations will use Skype to coordinate attacks. Given how paranoid China's government is regarding its own citizens, I imagine they consider Skype more of a national security risk than a financial risk (though I'm sure they care about the money, too).
Skype also wastes bandwidth and poses a security risk for corporate firewalls. One Skype client may not use much bandwidth, but most companies don't have one employee, and 10-100 Skype clients would noticeably slow down most corporate Internet connections. I imagine the only reason it hasn't been hacked is that the hackers all love Skype so much that they don't want to tarnish its reputation.
The bottom-line is that Skype is a haven for anyone doing something that they're not supposed to be doing. Skype could do everything it does today just as well without encrypting the traffic. The vast majority of their users wouldn't care, and there wouldn't be so many organizations out there that want to kill it. As it stands now, if I was a hacker, spy, terrorist, drug dealer, child porn producer, general contractor
duh, dude.
But despair not: "tries" is what you're looking for. Or if you were going for a brief, elliptical headline:
"Your Rights Online: Verso Trials, Skype-Blocking in China."
That is the most likely reading of the subject line as written, but, on further reading, it seems this wasn't intended.
"English -- It's O.K.!"
(And it prevents one from sounding like a hollow suit.)
Sorry, I'm an incorrigible romantic.
I called China via skype a year or two ago. The quality was horrid. I couldn't even hear the other person.
___
It's the end of my comment as I know it and I feel fine.
You mean SIP?
When the CEO of the company I work for goes to China or Taiwan, he tells everybody back here in California to reach him via Skype.