Slashdot Mirror
Copyright and Webcomics - A New Trend?
Selanit writes "There's an article at Publisher's Weekly reporting that Seven Seas Entertainment, an up-and-coming publisher of English-language manga, has adopted a new copyright policy. When contracting to publish webcomics like Earthsong or Inverloch, they offer the artists full control over the copyright. This is highly unusual in comics - most companies use joint-ownership arrangements. The founder of Seven Seas asked himself 'For properties that were already written and illustrated without any input from Seven Seas, how could I justify asking for partial ownership?' And apparently, the answer led him to abandon that practice. It'll be interesting to see if this helps his company attract new talent. (There's a previous Slashdot article that may be relevant.)"
Comic Genesis (formerly KeenSpace) has been doing that since 2000. It doesn't want to own the copyright to the comic (and it says so in the TOS). It just wants to host the comic, and give some services (like automated updates, promotion and forums).
But then, I'm the admin behind CG, and my comic is proudly on their servers.
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# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
Nobody tell Scott Kurtz! We'll never hear the end of it!
It's only an insult if it's not true.
Also known as a "comic"
Geez, that's pretty harsh. Are you really so vehemently anti-Fark?
Wow, a story about someone that actually cares about artists and giving them a "fair deal"? One can only hope that this type of thing leaks into other companies and media.
Even if the idea is not new, it still requires courage to copy it. There is also a good chance that they came up with the idea themselves, There are so few companies in the entertainment industry with corporate ethics. Anybody who ever looked at a DVD and wonders why only the distributing company is listed as copyright owner may soon figure out that there is something badly wrong with the entertainment industry. To pursue a business model which does not suck every cent out of an artist can be a risky attempt. I like to compliment Comic Genesis and Seven Seas Entertainment!
This is great to hear. They don't even go around suing preteens and single parents. I wish everyone was this nice.
Altho I didn't like the looks of Acheron at first (he looked too much like a "cub", it's hard to identify that as a menacing monster which he was supposed to be), the story is very interesting.
:)
I only wish the pages were done more often
What is the practical difference between selling the copyright and exclusively licensing?
Way to get press coverage for implementing an idea from the 70s. The big fight over creator owned comics happened years ago. While many mainstream comics remain owned by the publishers and not the creators, there are many comic properties owned by their creators now. There are publishers founded on the idea. David Sim's Cerebus is perhaps the most famous; he was one of the early people to make a big ruckus over the importance of creator owned comics.
Search 2010 Gen Con events
So we have http://www.penny-arcade.com/, http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/, http://www.officialwdc.com/comic.php, http://www.pvponline.com/, http://ww.somethingpositive.net/ and http://www.megatokyo.com/. Any other favorites?
Comic Genesis really isn't really comparable. Now Keenspot is a bit more comparable (as it does print collection books) but only mildly so. The difference is, (AFAIK) Seven Seas isn't a webcomic distributor (like Keenspot, Modern Tales and Comic Genesis). It's a comic distributor, that happens to distribute some webcomics. Comic Genesis has more in common with Geocities then it does with Seven Seas.
Not that I'm knocking Comic Genesis. I have many webcomics I read hosted with them, and am active (for me anyway) on their message boards.
Having said that, Str's right, this isn't anything new. Plan Nine Publishing does publish webcomics (and isn't a host or a print on demand system, although I believe it does utilize print on demand, it doesn't accept anyone) and doesn't claim ownership on the work.
This current thing came about when, recently, people signed to Tokyopop contracts starting comparing them. There's been a lot of discussion recently about this, about Dave Sim's attempt to negotiate with DC over art for a three page Fables story, and self publishing in general over at Warren Ellis's Engine forums.
I could get links for all this, but I am far too lazy.
The founder of Seven Seas apparently kept track of all the discussions and made a decision to do what he did, which would be great if it became a trend. Don't see it happening, but still.
No. Hosting is availible to anyone who has a webcomic. We have some manga artists, some mixed-genre artists, and of course the guys who never graduated from fridge art. As said above, Comic Genesis is a Geocities -- but with much less warez and Illegal MP3's being distributed (we mallet those using 'em as file lockers).
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# Canmephians for a better Linux Kernel
$Stalag99{"URL"}="http://stalag99.net";
"The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed." Adam Smith 1776
I doubt that we will ever figure out - and I suspect that even if we did figure out we couldn't do much about it
oh, this ad will definitely bring in new talent.. no doubt
Perhaps not widely popular, but one of my favorites. http://www.cheston.com/pbf/archive.html
...with over 200 strips in the archives (free for the reading !) and a "best-of" collection coming out this holiday season, it's still one of the funniest underground comics on the internet. Check it out at StupidChildren.com
StupidChildren...the reason jesus is crying
Discipline Global Mobile, the record label founded by Robert Fripp of King Crimson, has this same policy for the music it publishes - the copyright remains with the artist ("with whom it rightfully resides" IIRC).
You can read more about the admirable aims of DGM here .
Here's an excerpt:
The business aims of Discipline Global Mobile are....
* to help music come into the world which would otherwise be unlikely to do so, or under conditions prejudicial to the music and/or musicians.
* to operate in the market place, while being free of the values of the market place.
* to help the artists and staff of DGM achieve what they wish for themselves.
* to find its audience.
* to be a model of ethical business in an industry founded on exploitation, oiled by deceit, riven with theft and fuelled by greed.
There's also more of Fripp's sardonic sense of humor, and one of the better explanations of "standard practice" record label-artist contracts (not for the squeamish!).
Perhaps the rate of adoption of this sort of ethical business model by the music industry will at least serve as a lower bound for those wondering about the rate of adoption in other media.
There is one, possibly two more online comics to add to my morning (well, afternoon) reading.
I haven't yet gotten tot he point where Firefox will not be able to display all the tabs, but it's getting real close.
No more, ok?
H.
When VCR's are outlawed, only outlaws will have VCR's.
The distribution company owns the copyright since they paid money to produce it. In some senses, its a fore-hire work, with the actors and directors and crew as employees, where the company owns the product.
Everyone seems to have forgotten Steve Troop's Melonpool and Greg Dean's Real Life.
Mousewax has its moments too.
No boom today. Boom tomorrow. Always boom tomorrow. BOOM!
Let's not forget game nerd comic Dork Tower.
Do not be alarmed. This is only a test.
"English-language manga" have artwork. "Comics" are a collection of bad drawings that attempt to instill some originality into spandex wearing muscled guys and buxom babes.
"Comics" are bad drawings with punchlines. "Comic Books" are the ones with the spandex.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
Many distribution contracts says that they own the work, and this may have made sense in the old days when printing/etc was new, but now it's clearly the author/artist who makes the book what it is, the publisher is merely the middle-man.
If your contract is worded this way, don't sign. You never need hosting or a printer badly enough to sign all your creative work away.
Hey, the other companies dealing with this kind of content all have corporate ethics. It is just that it does not really match the rest of the world.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
So now some artists can own the works that they create.
It's rather sad that this is a radical new fringe idea, and that work for hire is the norm in distributing creative arts.
(I have no problems with my employer owning the code that I write during office hours. They hired me before I wrote any of it. And it's to their spec. )
My Karma: ran over your Dogma
StrawberryFrog
There is nothing new about any of this, except Webcomics are involved.
Creators have had an avenue to retain copyights of their material since Eclipse Comics And Pacific Comics came on the scene in the early 80s, and this continues today with the smaller publishers, such as Dark Horse, IDW, Avatar, and Image. And although it is a tiny part of their output, even Marvel And DC do some creator owned publishing.
I still read and collect comics, but I personally perfer to buy creator owned works when possible.
No longer a problem: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/11/1 8/0644240&from=rss
www.sinfest.net
I thought one of the reasons for assigning joint copyright to the publisher was so that the publisher could take on the responsibility for copyright abuse. If the author is sole owner of the copyright, the onus is on them to fight against piracy; by giving the publisher joint rights, the publisher is in a much stronger position to take legal action against pirates.
In theory, a publisher with an exclusive contract could sue the author of the work if it appears in a pirate publication; after all, that is a breach of their exclusive agreement. The author would then have to go after the pirates in return. Much easier if the publisher has an interest in the copyright for them to deal direct with the pirates.
Posting anonymously 'cos I might be talking out of my arse.
Why wouldn't one be?
This is actually how copyrights concerning comics is done in Japan. It will be interesting to see how it works out here.
I guess I've grown up in the indy comic culture. Other than the huge audience Marvel and DC comics already have, I don't see a reason to join those companies. There are so many possibilities for indy publishing out there. Granted, distribution is a problem for paper comics, but this is the Internet. We have the distribution thing covered.
My comic is 2 years old and has an international "distribution." My readership is roughly 400 and I've sold maybe 30 comics for actual money, which isn't a bad percentage as far as webcomics go. With on demand printing services like Comix Press and Lulu.com and hosting services like Comic Genesis and Drunk Duck, international distribution isn't as big a problem. Getting huge IS a problem because there's so much competition out there.
Although it's great to hear about webcomics making it big, they're just a very small percentage of online comics. Most people will never see any profits from their comics. There's no way to compete with big comic companies like Marvel in the print world. There's no way to compete with big comics in Internet either. Don't try. Webcomics have their niche. Find your group of readers and don't expect to be big. It's a good time, not a living.
Several decades too late for that. The phrase "creator owned" has been bouncing around the comics industry for decades, and has been going on rather visibly since the 1980s; there isn't anyone involved in comics publishing who isn't familiar with the idea and seen it in practice. For much of the 1990s the top-selling comic in North American (Spawn) was creator owned, a fact that its owner and his partners at Image made a lot of noise about.
In terms of volume, publisher-owned comics are still the vast majority, but even at the #1 and #2 publiushers, DC does a fair number (mostly under their Vertigo imprint) and Marvel did them a decade and a half ago (the Epic imprint) and are testing the waters again now (their new Icon imprint). Everything Image (#3 or #4) does is still creator-owned; Dark Horse (#4 or #3) has always (i.e. since the 80s) published creator-owned books (as well as licenced stuff like Star Wars). A lot of the mid-level publishers and pretty much all of the small publishers work under creator-owned terms (since the publisher usually is the creator). In fact, when word got out that TokyoPop was generally not letting creators keep their copyrights, that raised the minor firestorm that got Seven Seas' attention.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
How about financial backing, promotion, and distribution?
I'm not saying that the media empires aren't evil, just pointing out that the actual production isn't all that publishers bring to the table. This may be less true for web comics, but it is a similar situation to what is going on with the record labels, and TV/movie production companies.
Who pays for that, though? If the studio/distributor pays for the promotion it's one thing, but if they "arrange" for it, and back charge you against your earnings, then it's something very else. I'm not saying this happens in the webcomic industry, but it happens in the music industry...and any number of groups that didn't read and understand exactly what they were signing died because of it. You can't trust the general middle-man to give you an even approximately fair deal. Some may, but be skeptical and CHECK.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.