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Austrian Town Sees the Light

Posted by Zonk on from the visitors-from-the-outside dept.

pin_gween writes "The Austrian town of Rattenberg (a 10 minute walk from sunlight during the winter) plans to install a mirror on a mountain to redirect sunlight towards the town. The town was built in the winter shadow of Rat Mountain. The plan is to place heliostat mirrors to shine light in several locations around town, where villagers could 'congregate and get sunned up.' The EU is ponying up half the $2.4 million costs. The company installing the mirrors, Bartenbach Lichtlabor GmbH, is contributing $600,000, and hopes other communities will use their technology."

39 of 339 comments (clear)

  1. ob Southpark by narkotix · · Score: 3, Funny

    SIMPSONS DID IT!!

    --
    We played dungeons and dragons for 3 hours.....then i was slain by an elf
    1. Re:ob Southpark by shrewd · · Score: 4, Informative

      actually simpsons did the complete opposite, go on mark me informative ive earned it.

  2. Potential Problem by SlashSquatch · · Score: 5, Funny

    If there's a glitch in focusing, then the people get fried like ants?

    --
    Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
    1. Re:Potential Problem by wulfhound · · Score: 4, Informative

      A glass pyramid /is/ installed next to the most famous French art gallery of all, the Louvre. It serves as an entranceway and atrium roof to some of the underground part of the gallery.

    2. Re:Potential Problem by flyingsquid · · Score: 3, Funny
      If there's a glitch in focusing, then the people get fried like ants?

      You say that like this would be some kind of a reason not to do it.

    3. Re:Potential Problem by zerocool^ · · Score: 3, Funny


      And it's where the remains of Mary Magdeline are kept.

      //worst book I've ever enjoyed reading. I'm so ashamed.

      --
      sig?
  3. If you can't stand the heat... by Anyd · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Doesn't this fall into the category of "don't live there?" I'm not saying it wouldn't suck to live in an area without sunlight, but to knowingly move into said area, and then use taxpayer's money (correct me if I'm wrong, I'm assuming EU money = EU taxpayer's money) to change that... in the tone of millions... just seems stupid. It just seems that our global community should spend $ on better things than trying to cram people into every possible nook and cranny on earth!

    1. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by meringuoid · · Score: 5, Funny
      Doesn't this fall into the category of "don't live there?"

      Well, yes, probably. That said, I wonder if this might actually attract a certain type of warped tourist to the town? The City of Eternal Darkness, lit only by giant mirrors that reflect an eerie faded sunlight onto its dismal roofs... Chances are something Lovecraftian lives there.

      Myself, I'd be heading up the hill to stick a giant cut-out of a bat onto one of the mirrors :-)

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    2. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by vidarh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not millions. $1.2 million to improve quality of life for around 400 people. In other words around $3000 per inhabitant, or far less than most of them are paying in taxes in a single year. Combined with the fact that this project serves a dual purpose of helping this town and also of growing interest for the EU based mirror manufacturer's business worldwide, and it's likely economically a good long term investment - Both promoting growth in a town that's currently in decline as well as increasing exports from the company involved and boosting taxable revenue that way.

    3. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by vidarh · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Oh, and I guess you missed the part of this town being built in the 1300s, and currently being in decline because people are moving OUT of it, not in... Most people currently living there have lived there all their lives, and now they are getting what could be a significant improvement in quality of life at a small fraction of what they've paid in taxes over those years.

      So it's not about cramming people into every nook and cranny, but about maintaining and possible growing a settlement which already have an established residential area, that employ people, that have established infrastructure etc.

      The likely cost to society of having these people put pressure on house prices etc. by moving elsewhere would likely easily outweigh the $1.2 million the EU is spending all by itself.

    4. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by DrSkwid · · Score: 5, Interesting


      Yeah, good job it doesn't happen anywhere else in the world

      no wait,

      "America's 25,000 cotton farmers received more than $3bn in subsidies last year, equivalent to 100% of the market value of cotton output. This works out at a staggering subsidy of $230 an acre."

      Not that I'm defending the C.A.P.

      some depressing reading :

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/story/0,3604,102 0653,00.html

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    5. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by Timbotronic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ever been to the Austrian Alps? Think ski lifts stretching to the horizon in every direction, hot Austrian babes, great beer and 13th century villages that you ski into for lunch. It's a *nice* place!

      Also, there's a good chance the residents were born there. You often can't buy real estate in those tiny villages, it's just passed down the generations. I doubt they just moved in and started whinging.

      So I say let them have their mirrors. It's nowhere near as expensive (and environmentally suspect) as air conditioning Las Vegas for example.

      --

      One of these days I'm moving to Theory - everything works there

    6. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by SerpentMage · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Absolutely! And this is why I live in Switzerland and the not the EU! Granted they might build these things in Switzerland, but at least then the Geminde has to pony up the money itself. I do know here in Switzerland when people move their first concern is where the sun rises and sets! If you happen to live on the wrong side of the hill, the house is cheap and remains cheap.

      The worst part of the mirror is that it is an entire waste of money. Consider the following quote from the article.

      "So Lichtlabor plans to create about a dozen "hotspots" - areas not much bigger than a front yard scattered through the town, where townspeople can gather and soak up rays. "

      Now compare that comment to the comment from the beginning of the article.

      "That's because sun is plentiful less than 10 minutes' walk from the town and from Rat Mountain, the 910m hill that blocks its sunlight between November and February each year."

      Let's see, the EU pays 2,400,000 Euros for "hotspots", when they could walk 10 minutes to get the exact same thing! Additionally, as I live near the Alps, during the winter you are cloud covered or in the fog for most of the winter anyways.

      This is an example of pork, plain and simple!

      --

      "You can't make a race horse of a pig"
      "No," said Samuel, "but you can make very fast pig"
    7. Re:If you can't stand the heat... by PhraudulentOne · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah its like that darn New Orleans. I mean, people know its going to flood, right? But they move there anyway and expect tax money to help them out. And like.. New York city, you know, it can't support all those people natively. You need tax payers money to like, make sewers and stuff. Why wouldn't people just move away and poop in the bush?

      Tax payers money gets spent on a LOT of useless things (primarily killing, or "defense contracts"), but improving the quality of life is generally a good thing - as long as it doesn't harm the environment in a severe way.

      Perhaps these people don't have the money to move, or they simply don't want to leave their homes. A lot of people that live out in small country towns and villages get to supply big tax dollars to the huge city infrastructure that they may not agree with. They do it anyway. It's no secret that cities are not self sustaining in any way, shape, or form. The country folk have to pay for the city, AND provide for the cities. Why should they pay for all those people who want to live jammed in together in a detrimental way (environmentally)? Why does so much money get spent to foster that kind of lifestyle?

      If the money is spent on making people happy, and not hurting the environment, or other people, then I say it's a good thing.

      IMO.

      --
      You create your own reality - Leave mine to me.
  4. Cool! by dbolger · · Score: 5, Funny

    During peacetime, it brings light to the people, but if war is declared - instant Archimedes Death Ray! :D

  5. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Funny

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  6. being an EU citizen by myc_lykaon · · Score: 5, Insightful
    I cannot (well - I do believe) the EU is paying up for a scheme to redirect sunlight into a town that:

    a) was badly positioned in the first place;

    b) has existed as such for hundreds of years without blowing up, dying or otherwise falling off the edge of the planet without this winter sun;

    What about EU funds for my city - it's a bit chilly in winter. Has been for the last 5000 years. Everyone there knew it was chilly in winter and it hasn't blown up or fallen off the edge of the world because of this winter chill. I think the EU should pay for some weird underground heating to recompense us for this winter horror. Oh and a massive umbrella - it tends to rain a bit here.

    Other than that - 'tis a cool piece of tech.

    1. Re:being an EU citizen by rxmd · · Score: 3, Funny
      What about EU funds for my city - it's a bit chilly in winter. Has been for the last 5000 years. Everyone there knew it was chilly in winter and it hasn't blown up or fallen off the edge of the world because of this winter chill. I think the EU should pay for some weird underground heating to recompense us for this winter horror.
      Let me guess, you live in Helsinki? :)

      Well, the EU made Finland lower their taxes on alcohol... and since Estonia has joined the EU, the import tariffs on cheap Estonian vodka have fallen, too. ("Viru Valge" at 80%, anyone?) So the EU is actually doing something for the Finns and their cold winter nights ;)

      --
      As a state gets corrupt, its laws multiply; the most corrupt states have the most numerous laws. (Tacitus, Annales 3:27)
    2. Re:being an EU citizen by ChristW · · Score: 5, Insightful

      a) was badly positioned in the first place;

      It's excellently placed... All their crops get the most sunlight, and the village is quite cool in the summer...

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    3. Re:being an EU citizen by tcornelissen · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The EU is not paying for that town. EU doesn't care for some people in some town. They are paying so that that company has something to do. EU does care for companies, or at least for companies that have enough money to lobby/bribe EU officials.

    4. Re:being an EU citizen by jc42 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The EU should pay for some weird underground heating ...

      Actually, that's not at all weird. Here in the US, there are a number of universities that have done this. I attended two of them. In the winter, when visitors commented on the "waste" of heated sidewalks, it was fun to explain that it was a side effect of the cost-saving heating system.

      What they do is obvious: There's a big campus heating plant, with underground pipes connecting it to the other buildings. Mostly, the pipes are inside tunnels, which contain other long, skinny things like wiring of various sorts. And, for obvious reasons, the tunnels are usually built underneath sidewalks, so that the leaking heat will keep the walks clear in winter.

      The only problem is that they don't put them under all the sidewalks. But in general, such central heating systems cost a lot less than separate heating systems in each building.

      Too bad that people in towns generally can't implement something similar. But if they did, the cost would be called "taxes", and no matter how much less they were than per-house heating systems, people wouldn't accept them. Taxes are, you know, evil; paying twice as much to a private corporation is good.

      There is technology to do similar things with light. Google for "light pipe". How practical this might be on a town level isn't obvious.

      --
      Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
  7. Re:earlier by dbolger · · Score: 4, Funny

    No, but if somebody could find a 'mirror'... ;D

    Sorry, couldn't resist.

  8. I'm Sure... by MattLiv · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...that the mirror companies decision to pay for some of the cost will reflect well on them over time.

  9. Don't like it? Too bad by EtherealStrife · · Score: 4, Insightful
    "But the young folks are moving away."

    Seems like the younguns catch on quick. If you don't like living there, then don't. Problem solved. Seems like they're better off than all the folks near the arctic circle, but you don't see/hear them complaining...
    So once again the government/PTBs are footing the bill for people too lazy to move. *cough* New Orleans *cough* Florida *cough*

    Besides, a few "lawn sized" patches of light aren't going to make the place any less bleak during the winter months...it might blind some folks looking in the wrong direction, though. Or did I miss the part where they add in some kind of diffusing lens?

    The way things seem to be headed (based on TFA), just wait a few years. Give the old folks time to die off, and the younger group time to get fed up and leave. $2,400,000 saved.

    1. Re:Don't like it? Too bad by killjoe · · Score: 4, Informative

      Since you brought New Orleans into this allow me to veer offtopic a bit.

      I am a middle class guy. If I heard that a hurricane was coming my way I would lock up my house, get in my car and go to some higher ground and stay in a hotel for a week or so. While I am gone I would have a high degree of confidence that my house won't be broken into and my stuff stolen. Even if it (or if the hurricane destroyed my house) I would still be OK. I have insurance, I have money in the bank to sustain myself for a while, I have a good job, I have credit cards. I would be OK while I am waiting for the insurance process to sort itself out.

      Compare my situation to that of a poor person in NO. They don't have decent jobs, they don't have credit, they don't have money saved up. Everything they own is in their house. Everything. Nothing in the bank, nothing in a 401K. No insurance. When you leave your house you leave everything you own behind. Being in a poor part the town you also have a very high risk of getting everything you own get stolen or destroyed by the storm.

      It sucks to be poor. If you don't have a car, don't have money to stay in a hotel for a week waiting for the storm to pass you are not going to risk hitching a ride or taking a bus and losing everything you have. It's just too much of a risk.

      So before you decide that everybody in New Orleans is too lazy to move take a moment to think about their condition.

      --
      evil is as evil does
    2. Re:Don't like it? Too bad by thesandtiger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Lemme guess - you don't own a home? Don't live in the same area your parents, their parents, and their parents lived? Don't have any sense of community or history where you reside? If any of the above are true, then let me ask you this: what the fuck are you smoking, and may I please have some?

      It's not as simple as "Hey, you don't like it? Move!" You're basically suggesting that people give up their history and property in order to spare ~$3,000 of THEIR OWN money per person (taxes) trying to fix a problem.

      I find it really ironic that a comment modified as "insightful" suggests that, rather than spending a trivial sum, they should just let a community with roots fade into nothing.

      --
      Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  10. Re:All good until... by drstock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is in Europe, not USA. You can't sue the pants of anyone here, especially not for your own stupidity.

    --
    My other comment is funny
  11. Sun reflecting mirrors in space by Indy+Media+Watch · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A while ago there was some research into giant tinfoil equipped satellites which could redirect sunlight onto the earth during darkness. Applications included agricultural (think world's biggest hydroponic setup) and emergency situations requiring 24hr illumination.

    I don't know what happened, however between this and Solar Power Satellites transmitting solar generated electricity to earth via microwave I wonder if the research has hurricane implications.

    That is, if they could construct an enormous sun-reflecting hurricane death-ray which could be projected/reflected into the eyes of hurricanes, or over oceans to heat the air/water before Hurricanes can form.

    Playing with weather... Won't that annoy the hippies!

    --

    Indy Media Watch-Proctologist of the Internet

  12. 10 Minute Walk? Hah! by core+plexus · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The nation's northernmost town braces Friday for its last sundown of the year.

    Barrow, Alaska residents say they tend to sleep more during the long months of round-the-clock dark. The sun sets in Barrow on Friday at 1:40 p.m. and doesn't rise again until Jan. 23 at 1:01 p.m.

    Diana Martin is an Inupiat Eskimo and a lifelong Barrow resident. She says it's much easier to start the day when Barrow receives round-the-clock daylight in summer.

  13. new news! by Celt · · Score: 4, Informative

    This was on the BBC News website two weeks ago, in fairness atleast can we see the news when it happens

    --
    "WebTV: bringing the Internet into the shallow end of the gene pool since 1995" - Martin Bishop
  14. Re:Australia by shrewd · · Score: 4, Funny

    the Austrian variety of kangaroo's live deep deep underground in dark cold caverns, they'll be alright.

  15. Map on news.telegraph by worf_mo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Last January news.telegraph had an article about this that featured kind of a map on how the mirrors will be positioned.

  16. Tourist landmark by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I live in a country neighboring Austria. When the mirror is up I definitively will pay a visit and spend between 5 and 100 EUR in the town. Just because I and my family like trips. And, if we like it, we might return.

    Why build the Eiffel tower? Why build the statue of liberty (and give the ugly thing away?) Why were the funny looking Gaudi buildings built? Why did Linus do it? This list can get pretty long but the common factor is that at the beginning nobody really knew if it really was a good idea.

    The truly strange thing is that this mirror thingy is referred to as a technology. Isn't that like calling a hamburger gastronomy?

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
  17. Gerry Anderson is prophetic again! by Yooden_Vranx · · Score: 3, Funny

    For a sneak peek at what happens next, see the classic Thunderbirds episode "Lord Parker's 'Oliday" :) http://www.fanderson.org.uk/epguides/tbirds2eg.htm l#Episode%20Four

  18. All I can think of by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is Wyle E. Coyote and a giant "Acme" mirror.
    Unintended consequences ensue.

    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  19. Rattenberg Homepage by derphilipp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rattenberg_(Tirol)
    The article says that Rattenberg is famous for its glass-processing industry.

    --
    Spelling mistakes: My is english spoken not tongue of mother.
  20. Picture link by jetmarc · · Score: 3, Informative

    Using the FP as plug for a picture..

  21. Someone should let this guy know by bareman · · Score: 3, Funny

    www.solardeathray.com

    and send a photographer to capture the ensuing hilarity.. er, um.. I'm mean document the event.

  22. I live in switzerland too by theolein · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Here in switzerland they face the very same problem, i.e. the real problem - mountain villages dying out - and they combat it in almost the exact same manor, i.e. the Bund or government pays millions every year for isolated little villages in Engadin in Graubünden that otherwise would have died out already. And what about Rumantsch? The language descended from the Romans spoken only in Graubünden in Switzerland that is rapidly dying out? There are only about 50'000 speakers left despite the language being given a standardised written form and many millions in subsidies etc by the government?

    Should they drop all of that as well?