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Introverts Have More Brain Activity?
* * Beatles-Beatles writes to tell us Yahoo News is reporting that introverted individuals tend to have more brain activity in general, specifically in the frontal lobe. From the article: "The attitude that there's something wrong with introverted people is widely shared in society, where fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning. Extroverts seem to rule the world or, at least, the USA, which hasn't elected an introverted president for three decades, since Jimmy Carter."
A. Stop posting stories submitted by this Beatles link spammer. He's using Slashdot to boost his Google pagerank.
B. The first President Bush was an ISTJ and thus an introvert.
I'm recycling a comment from another AC in another Scuttlemonkey/**Beatles-Beatles post. This guy's getting worse than Roland Picklepail:
Am I the only person who has noticed the numerous stories that get posted by *--Beatles-Beatles? Am I also the only person who has noticed that the link used in is name is a constantly changing URL (depending on the story) with pointers to various scammy sites? Is it not obvious what he's doing? He's using the awesome PageRank of slashdot do promote his sites based on searches that have the word Beatles in them.
It's a small price to pay for free advertising. Find a story, summarize it in 5 minutes, post to slashdot, and get a pagerank boost that advertisers would pay hundreds (or maybe thousands) for. (Text links on high-ranking sites is big business - just ask oreilly).
Slashdot should at least put a ref=nofollow in the links to submitters (or better yet, only link the submitter's name to his/her user page).
In closing, a quick bit of WHOIS shows that all the sites linked by **B-B are registered to Carl Fogle. Carl, cut this crap out.
"...fast talk and snap decisions are often valued over listening, deliberation and careful planning..."
:v)
Maybe on your side of the pond, mate.
Vik
He's history's greatest monster !!!
Extroverts try to convince everyone how smart they are. Introverts assume everyone already knows it.
Glog!
...presented badly. Why of WHY did you have politicizing this subject?
Life is not for the lazy.
A while back I read an article in The Atlantic titled "Caring for Your Introvert" by Jonathan Rauch. Absolutely great piece.
Integrate Keynote and LaTeX
What about perverts?
Introverted as I am I won't be able to express this but I do have FAR more brain activity than others. I don't think it has to do with my introverted but it's more of a symptom.
For example; today I had an awful day. I'll think about it until tomorrow morning. My extroverted friends will shrug it off as "bad day, tomorrow is another". If in fact I do "think" more, I'll spend less time socializing as it'll cut into my thinking time.
Yesterday at a church event I attempted to be even more extroverted than normal. I was insulted in the course of the evening, a minor misunderstanding of my position, and of course it distracted me the rest of the evening as I thought about how to restate and rectify my position.
So yes, we think more but why would the thinking want to associate with the brain-dead? We don't. We fall back into our shells and think about why the world is as it is.
More information here: http://www.theintrovertadvantage.com/
Here's a quick bit from the site:
Are You One?
We all use both our introverted and extroverted skills, but we are hard wired to be more one than the other. Look at the lists below and determine which one feels more like YOU!
Not every aspect will fit exactly for you because we are all unique. If you don't feel like you fit one side more than the other, even by 51% to 49%, then ask yourself this question: If there is an emergency do you tend to stand still and feel somewhat shutdown or in slow motion? If you have a standstill reaction to stress more often, then you are probably an introvert. In a crisis do you tend to move your body immediately and feel like taking action, maybe without pausing to think? Then you are probably an extrovert if you react with movement. Under stress we can experience our innate temperament. Look over the two lists and think about how you ARE, not as you'd like to be. If your still uncertain, as a last ditch effort, ask someone you trust and who is honest to read these and suggest which one sounds more like you.
Introverts:
Extroverts:
I recommend this book if you think you are or know somebody that you think is indeed an introvert, as this book says alot about what an introvert is and what the article briefly describes.
Another case of the assumption that the USA = The World.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
For introverts, there was also lot of activity in the area of the brain that relates to the visual processing and the desire of red staplers... but that's probably just a coincidence. ;)
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
Introverted people tend to seriously overanalize situations and have difficulty relaxing in social enviornments. The result is conversation that feels forced, somthing that most people don't find attractive.
Ever wondered why meeting people is easier when tipsy? It makes your brain shut up.
So basically this is a colony of introverts, and we get a story about how great introverts are. What does that do for us in terms of teaching us? It feels like nerds needed to give each other a pat on the back.
I feel the karma burning, but hey, I got a 4 today, so I can afford a -1.
There is frequently an assumption that the physical (brain chemistry, electrical activity) causes the behavior (introspection), as opposed to the other way around, or some other, independent cause.
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I guess it makes sense. The more time you spend talking the less time you spend thinking.
I still have to wonder about the research methodology though... You stick an introvert who likes being by himself in one machine and an extrovert who hates being by himself in another. Is it really any wonder that the person who likes being by himself has more brain activity in this situation? I think it would be better if they could somehow measure an introvert reading a book and compare that to an extrovert mingling at a party.
What are you eating? isItVeg?.
I believe it was the late great philosopher Douglas Adams who stated, "If people stop talking, their brains start working."
This space unintentionally left blank.
Excerpt pokes at the perception that there is something wrong with introverts, but furthers the perception that somehow more brain activity as better. A lot of brain activity has to do with inhibiting other nervous system activity. The brain isn't a processor where cycles per second have some significance. If anything, the morphology of the brain circuitry would have a much bigger impact than any measure of global activity.
I mean, the guy presided over an economy with a prime rate of 18% and gas lines like you won't believe. Brainpower....yeah, right.
Correction, Carter CAUSED the prime rate of 18%.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Attaching a label to yourself is a great way to start a self fulfilling prophecy, unless you are simply self analyzing. The old "I'm an introvert so I don't get friends" philosophy is widespread and teribly limiting. You CAN be both, and I try to stretch both sides of me.
I try to beleive I'm a little more diverse than one word, the same way I don't describe myself as a Jew, or white, or red head, or whatever. If you are in a situation where you have to describe yourself as one word, you may be around the wrong people.
Heh. I remember Carter. His "introvertedness" if that's what it was, was beside the point. The man exuded a mopey hopelessness every time he spoke. His energy policy consisted of wearing cardigans on TV when he gave his "fireside chats", and telling us he was turning down the thermostat at the White House. His cap on gas prices resulted in gas shortages.
His foreign policy of "USA bends over and spreads them" is directly responsible for the mess that exists in Iran today, and in fact one of the hostage takers of the time is "El Presidente" of Iran today.
Carter may be capable of building houses, and beating off savage attack rabbits with a canoe paddle.
He was waaay out of his depth as a president.
Everyone should have to endure watching the man's speeches to America. Those who missed it won't understand what a dismal time that was.
I wonder if the increased brain activity causes a person to be introverted (they are more immersed in their thoughts and less concerned with the outside world) or if a person being introverted causes them to have more brain activity (they think to fill the "void" where social interaction would fit in in an extrovert)
Ok, so you are saying that recent American Presidents have not had much frontal lobe activity...
You know, we'd guessed....
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Supposedly George Smathers attacked Claude Pepper by calling him "a known extravert," with a sister who was a "thespian" and a brother who was a "practicing homo sapiens," saying that Pepper "matriculated" in college and "practiced celibacy" before marriage. Pepper lost.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
Abraham Lincoln, sixteenth president
Sir Alfred Hitchcock, film director
Michael Jordan, basketball player and celebrity
Thomas Edison, inventor
Grace Kelly, actress
Gryneth Paltrow, actress
David Duvall, golfer
Laura Bush, first lady [emphasis mine]
Bill Gates, software pioneer
Candice Bergen, actress
Clint Eastwood, actor/director
Charles Shulz, Peanuts cartoonist
Steve Martin, comedian/actor/writer
Harrison Ford, actor
Michele Pfeiffer, actress
Katherine Graham, late owner of Washington Post, author
A snippet from "The Introvert Advantage". Keep in mind that most of these people are self-proclaimed introverts. If you are interested in finding out if you are one, just google for an introvert-extrovert quiz, although if you really want to be sure, take the extra long quiz(es). And if you really want to go into the subject, read up on Carl Jung, who's right up there with Sigmund Freud and Alfred Addler in terms of psychological R&D.
And I'd hate to reply to my post, but I'm afraid by the time I post this it might be pretty far down the page.
You see, I was thinking something different. I was thinking that if Jimmy Carter was an introvert, then it might be a good thing we don't elect introverts.
He really is a nice guy and all but as a president, he was *the* definition of ineffective. The malaise comment, his belief that Americans should wear sweaters to conserve power (right or wrong, we won't and didn't), staying in the white house during the Iran hostage crisis, and plenty more should put the whole "most brainpower" issue to rest.
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There's a common belittling of the sheer amount of complexity we need to deal with to interact in a social environment. There's movement towards acknowleging this with things like "EQ" as well as "IQ" being measured, but it's couched in a lot of New Agey jargon too much of the time. Being able to do complex maths and write good computer programs involves a lot of brain activity, but so does being able to effectively model a person's personality in your mind and interact more effectively with them using that model. I usually score as more introverted than extroverted on MBPT tests and the like, but I still enjoy the process of experiencing social and group dynamics at times, and playing with it in a similar way to the way I'd work on a logic problem.
The Reagan white house was a colony of vampires. It was a pretty dismal time to be a peasant in Guatamala, El Salvador, or Nicaragua. "Moral equivalent of the Founding Fathers" my ass. Unless he meant the slave-rapers.
The main reason people decide on the introvert approach is because people don't actually care. If people actually cared then introverts would have a reason to be more outgoing. Think of it that way.
One key difference among introverts, introverts know you don't really care and stay in their own world. An Extroverts world and entire reality only exists if people in that reality allow for it.
View it like this, if you are an introvert because you don't want an overly dramatic, painful, insane life, and want actual control over your life, thats just the logical way to have control.
If you are an extrovert, you care what other people think of you, you care about others more than others care about you, and I'm not saying its wrong to care about others, but extroverts simply get attached to everyone, or no one, while introverts are very selective with whom they attach to and connect with.
It's just different strategies, if a person can put up with the pain of being an extrovert, then theres nothing wrong with it, but for others being an extrovert is impossible or difficult unless its in a very artificial way. The artificial way of being an extrovert is to pretend to care, pretend to listen to people, pretend to trust people, and pretend to be social. Example, being social at work or at school because you are supposed to, not because you actually like to or need to, this is how an introvert views.
An extrovert HAS to be social or they go insane with bordem. An extrovert HAS to feel loved or they get depressed. An extrovert MUST feel accepted, MUST feel normal, and so on and so forth.
introverts want to simply stay in their own world and enjoy their time here, and are much more time conscious in that they know its a complete waste of time to play social mind games with people.
"Every time you see a story about a serial killer on TV, what do they do? They bring on the neighbor. And the neighbor says 'Well, he was always very quiet,' and someone in the room says, 'It's the quiet ones you gotta watch.' This sounds to me like a very dangerous assumption. I will bet you anything that while you're watching a quiet one a noisy one will fucking kill you! Suppose you're in a bar and one guy's sitting over on the side reading a book not bothering anybody and another guy's standing up at the front with a machete banging it on the bar saying 'I'LL KILL THE NEXT MOTHERFUCKER THAT COMES IN HERE!!!' " --George Carlin
Nothing exemplifies the supposed power of the extrovert more than The Apprentice. All those disgusting Type-A personalities backstabbing each other and ripping the crap out of each other for the tiniest mistakes to make themselves look good, and not only are we supposed to be amused by it, but we're also supposed to believe that that's really how you get real work done. It undoes what few remnants of "cooperation" are left from our positive Sesame Street educations and convinces us that being rude and loud at other people's expense is the only way to succeed.
Fast talkers? George v's Tony
serenity now!
An introvert says it, but only after thinking it over, if it is the best thing to say, the timing, thinking about what others say a bunch to try to come up with good things to say, etc. An introvert can "over analyze" things like that.
Other things happen too. When I'm going to meet someone, I'll often think up entire conversations on the way. It isn't purposeful, but I think something along the lines of "I could say X", then that leads to "then they would say Y", and it continues and before you know it I've had a little conversation in my head.
I think about all sorts of stuff. I can be walking down the street and I'll start thinking about something completely irrelevant. I'm not talking about "I remember that one birthday", I'm talking about "how you could build X" which leads to how to solve problem Y, how X would be useful in situation Z, etc.
That is sort of the whole introvert/extrovert thing. Introverts do all this stuff inside. Extroverts might do these things as conversations with other people, or they might fill that "need" in some other way with normal conversation and such.
That's how I see it. I used to be more of an introvert, and I've never been an extrovert so I can't say I've had that point of view (outside of the odd situation).
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I have only this to say:
"I think this line is mostly filler"
Extroverts simply like attention, like to talk, like to be heard, and would rather believe everyone cares than admit that they dont.
Think of it this way, why would anyone care who you hooked up with? and how exactly is this information good to put out there? I wont say introverts are smarter, but introverts are at least more cautious when it comes to the information they put out and the trust they put into individuals. It should be obvious.
Whatever you think of the Carter administration, the interesting thing to me is that Jimmy Carter has been arguably one of the most effective ex-presidents we've ever seen in recent times.
The guy is out there, doing what he believes in, and making a difference. Promoting affordable housing and democracy, a couple of the USA's core values. All I can say is: Bravo.
Compare that to the rest of the recent ones: Nixon, Ford, Regan, Bush One, Clinton. Mostly they made appearances to pay the bills. And found libraries. And play golf. Dunno, maybe I haven't studied up on them enough (which is to say, at all), but I don't recall hearing anything about any of them which impressed me.
The only exception seems to be Clinton. He seems to be following the same path as Carter, but more ego-centrically. You hear a lot of 'I' when he talks about what he's working on.
Being introverted does not necessarily mean that you're a quiet, reflective kind of person in social situations. Being introverted really means that you don't like too much people, for too long a time at once. You need a good deal of "alone-time" to be comfortable.
That can mean that you're also quiet or a wallflower at parties, but does not at all have to be. It may just as well be that you're happily partying and jabbering away - just mostly with people you already know, preferably smaller groups, and not that often.
In fact, I prefer to see introversion as the positive difference of the clingy extrovert who can't stand being alone, who values themselves only through the eyes of others, and who has to fill their time with sounds and voices at any cost, whether if it means constantly blaring TV, spending hours on the phone saying nothing at all, or always having a boy/girlfriend just to have _someone_, since anyone, no matter what kind of creep, is better than being alone.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
I'd say that extroverts trust more than introverts.
Introverts quickly learn they will never be accepted, and cannot trust the common individual.
Also, its not like someone who is an introvert cannot fake being an extrovert. Thats the difference. Any introvert can decide to pretend to be social. All you have to do is learn the body language and words which initiate certain patterns, conversations, etc.
Ultimately, if you want to be an extrovert yet be an introvert, talk to people when you have a reason to.
Does more brain activity = good or bad, or neither?
So, basically, they figured out the same thing I was taught five years ago in college. It's explained by "Optimal Stimulation Theory." People have an optimal level of stimulation that they try to maintain. Introverts naturally have a higher level of internal stimulation, therefore they seek to reduce the amount of outside stimulation they receive in order to maintain their optimal stimulation level. Extroverts (and "sensation seekers") have a lower level of internal stimulation and therefore seek to increase the amount of external stimulation they receive in order to maintain their optimal stimulation level. So...what's new about this study?
"All jocks ever think about is sports - all nerds ever think about is sex."
The difference being that jocks get invited to sports.
I keed! I keed! I joke-a with yooooooou!
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
This means, extroverts can't keep a secret, can't do something without telling the world about it, and like to gossip.
Gossiping is not something an introvert would ever do because whats the point? There is no logic behind gossip. So think of it this way, introverts are good planners, strategic thinkers, and this is good for certain fields and tasks. Extroverts are good salesmen, good with words, perhaps better with expression.
The problem is, expression without reason is art. Extroverts would make a good artist, but would you really want an extrovert to be handling strategy or any of the planning? All your plans would be gossip and sooner or later all your ideas and plans will be stolen.
So yes, its a catch 22, extroverts are great at marketing, but bad at planning. If you are running a business, it takes more than just marketing, because you cannot even get a patent or use your idea if your extrovert partner tells everyone the idea before you can patent it or actually build a business around it.
The planners therefore have to be introverts. The salesmen have to be extroverts, there can be exceptions for fields such as law in which you'd want to be capable of both.
I've always felt that the politicians are just the usually extroverted front people, they provide an interface to the population for the civil servants, who are the usually introverted behind the scenes people who actually do the work.
The extroverts get the fame, glory and attention. The introverts get to solve the problems. Everybody's happy.
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While I'm sure that many introverts are turning over deep coding problems, coming up with the idea that will change the world, and making keen observations, others are neurotic, anxious, or wasting cycles on trivialities. Not all brain activity is condusive to health, happiness, and success.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
Beatles-Beatles attempt at politicizing this seems off: Bush I and Bush II also appear to be introverts.
I think you're over-generalizing a little. Actually, a lot. Isn't it possible for a person to enjoy being social without being attached to everyone? Sure, an extroverted person needs to have someone to be extroverted to -- but that's a far cry from needing to be loved and accpeted by everyone, and from getting attached to everyone.
Introversion and extroversion are about what your focus is, not what you need. Some people have all the fun and energy in the world when they're with other people. Some people have a great time just thinking and doing things alone. That doesn't mean that an introverted person doesn't want or need love, or that extroverted people are some sort of incomplete half-humans when they're alone.
I'm guessing that you consider yourself an introvert (or you're a very bitter extreme extrovert) from your comments. That's fine but you seem to have some huge resentment towards more social people. Enjoying socializing is not the same as dependance on others or "play[ing] social mind games". Some people just like to hang out. Others like to amuse themselves.
He's the one staring at YOUR shoes.
Thank you, I'm here all week. Try the lobster.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
Q: How can you tell an extroverted computer geek from an introverted computer geek?
A: The introverted computer geek will look at his shoes while he talks to you. The extroverted computer geek will look at your shoes while he talks to you.
Q: How do you tell if an Extroverted computer geek is Russian?
A: His shoes look at you while he is talking.
After 2+ years, it still doesn't get old.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
I think you're about right. I'm extremely extroverted, but I don't mind being alone, either. I find people extremely interesting and entertaining...at least when there's something interesting and entertaining about them. I like being able to talk to pretty much anybody. It's really not hard...just ask them questions about themselves. What do you do? Where are you from? Do you have a family? What do you like to do for fun? The best questions to ask are "why" questions, because they're open ended and make people think, and also motivation questions, for the same reasons. "Wow, what made you want to be a chicken sexer?" usually makes for a very interesting story.
The problem occurs, however, when you meet truly boring people. The guy who works as an insurance claims adjuster and has no hobbies or interests. Thankfully that's pretty rare. Most of the time people have at least one thing about them that's truly interesting and unique, and if you get them started on that topic you can be entertained for quite awhile. As a bonus, they'll think you're the most interesting person in the world, too, since the most interesting people are those are interested in them. You better actually be interested in people, though, or you'll just find yourself getting annoyed.
Oh, but playing social mind games is fun, too.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
From the slashdot article:
I consider myself introverted but I was always excellent applying technology and creating solutions that worked and usually exceeded expectations.
That "exceptional" technology skill got me invited to lots of decision-making and planning meetings and consortiums. But people often expressed afterwards (and sometimes even during) these sessions disappointment in my seemingly lack of participation or unwillingness to "speak up". I always apologized and explained I really couldn't find it in my constitution to say something unless I had something to say.
I usually found myself deep in thought about discussions ongoing but rarely found conclusions simple, even in seemingly simple scenarios. Overall I sometimes wonder how many dings I accumulated for that trait. (I will say, I did quite well for myself reputation-wise overall.)
Curiouser and curiouser.
Don't you think you are creating a false dichotomy though? For example, I am by no means an introvert, but I sometimes have trouble with doing/saying things impulsively. So where do I fit in? Honestly, I think this whole thing seems a bit fabricated, personality cannot be distilled into two catagories very easily(if at all)
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I have lived in the USA and in other countries. The only place that I have seen in the world that being introverted or "thoughtful" is thought of as being weird or spooky is the USA. In other places in the world people who think about what they have to say, rather than spouting some clichés and dogma, which seems so common in the USA, are the ones who are respected. That certainly holds true of all the Canadians I've met.
Having said that, there are a lot of very intelligent and thoughtful people in the USA, and yes most of them aren't extroverts :P
So my point is not about how leaders and extroverts in the world are, just that thinking that introversion is a bad thing is probably likely to be a fairly US specific thing.
We don't believe in radical loony monotheistic religions from the middle east -- we're Christians.
Like many (well, MOST) things in psychology, this is a guide and nothing more. Psychology (like most disciplines) suffers from "Physics Envy"; that is they lack the ability to make concrete statements like Physics has ("Earth's gravity is 9.8 m/s^2").
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
James E. Carter and introvert? The guy who, for most of my lifetime, has been gallivanting around the planet advising and negotiating with anyone drawing breath, publicly criticizing all of his successors, participating in all manner of charitable causes, special interests and important events, and doing interviews for anyone capable of granting airtime? That "Jimmy" Carter? This guy visited TMI while the core was still molten.
Give me a ****ing break. The man has probably forgotten more friends than any ten of you will ever have.
Lurking at the bottom of the gravity well, getting old
well one thing both of you are a little off about is introverts and extroverts "enjoy" acting out as one (or not acting out?). The basis of the test is really to prove whether you feel "recharged" after spending time by yourself or by interacting with others. Although people generally enjoy doing what they feel recharges them, you really can't interchange the two. Personally I'm about as introverted as it gets according to myers-briggs, however I really do enjoy interacting with people who I find interesting and when I feel that they find me interesting however, interacting with people really drains me and after a while of interacting with people I'll naturally just start to appear uninterested even though I'm just self-reflecting so that I'll be able to continue.
As for whoever said, extroverts need others to care about them, that can't be farther from the truth, they really just seem to have a more verbal way of self-reflecting. By talking with others, most extroverts I've known seem to realize more about themselves from either hearing other peoples experiences or just saying something about themselves aloud.
As for the parent poster stating that talking isn't hard, introverts know that, usually we genuinely just don't care and sometimes don't want to know the answer to these questions.
Give a man a match and he'll be warm for a minute, set him on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Or maybe lawful neutral.
He has a guest book. Spam it with links to Slashdot. Troll it with goatse links. Better yet, use your imagination and do something original. Teach them never to get into a spamming/trolling contest with the Slashdot crowd. We are the experts, let's show them what we're made of.
Here's that link again in case you missed it.
Mind Wide Open summarized this pretty well. Active scans of people working on a problem or engaged in a specific endeavor have shown repeatedly that extra brain activity is not a good thing. It means you're floundering. The more activity the worse you're doing. Your best results are when just that tiny minimum necessary bit of the brain lights up.
Thinking of several pronounced introverts I know I'd have to say this applies; sure they're thinking a lot, but what they're doing is obsessing on little problems and turning them into full-blown crises which they can mull over and over again for maximum horrorific effect.
Of course there are real introverted geniuses. I guess they just channel it better.
I have no problem boosting an author's Pagerank if his or her articles are good. This article is not. It falls into the category of "scientist discovers what psychologists have known for decades."
You can be an extroverted misanthropist, but it is more commonly associated with introversion.
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I don't know what it's like to be an extrovert, but I've been around a couple in my life. Conversation can really separate the one from the other--at least, that's what I've noticed.
Seems to me like extroverts _plan_ their conversations. They might be listening to you, sure, but on some deeper level they're busy thinking of what's coming next--or perhaps looking around to see who else is around they can draw into the conversation.
I'm an introvert. I don't like a lot of "change" in my conversations--new people cause repetition, get me off on tangents, or cause the subject to change prematurely. Extroverts plan as they go for this kind of stuff--"Hey, there's Bob. Bob knows Optics. I'll get him over here and see what he has to say." My reaction to Bob's presence--unless for some reason Bob is already part of the conversation--is, "Oh, it's Bob."
Unless I've planned well ahead of time, I'm so busy trying to come up with what to say _as I'm talking_ that I don't have much ability to map out my thoughts. Even when the other party is talking, I'm too busy pondering what _they_ are saying to think about what _I_ am going to say. I converse by inspiration: if the other party doesn't give me any good inroads to a new topic, I have a hard time holding up my end--unless I don't feel the need to pay attention because, for instance, I've heard a story before. Then I'm free to sit and think about what's been said.
If I had to guess at the main mental difference between extroverts and introverts, it would really be that the former can think off the cuff and get along, whereas we introverts are compelled to reflect and concentrate, whether or not we can get along by winging it.
Extroverts bubble; introverts stew.
My favorite part is when we hear crowing from the righties about how we're only having a terrorism problem because Clinton cut and run in Somalia, not wanting a lengthy and bloody engagement. (I don't recall any Republicans shouting "stay the course!" at the time, but I might be wrong.) This, according to the narrative, showed the world that America was a paper tiger, which would back down if you bloodied its nose a bit, and led to 9/11, 7/7, and whatever else happens.
However, nothing is said about Reagan's Iran-Contra deal. If you recall, this is where we traded arms for hostages. That is, Reagan appeased the terrorists. Which is just about the worst kind of message you can send. It's like writing a blank check to the bad guys. Look, if your citizens are held hostage by these people, plan a daring rescue mission if you can, but if that doesn't work out, mourn them, 'cause they're already dead.
Reagan? Goddamn appeaser.
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
And what about the Savings and loans fiasco? That was caused by Carter de-regulating the S&L industry. That fiasco cost billions in tax payer dollars. That probably did not HELP the economy whatsoever. It wasn't all a big Reagon conspiracy to make the economy bad so he could get elected. Carter did enough to dig his own grave.
Carter began the process of deregulation, starting with airlines, rail transport, natural gas, oil, and banking. Of course, Reagan kept this going, along with a coherent freee-market philosophy to back it up.
Years ago I did get such an assessment. It was actually paid for by a company I had applied to. I didn't get the job but the agency wanted to discuss the report with me. Why? Because it said that I was in the top 2% of white collar workers for management aptitude but was more suited to a small company. That was 10 years ago and it was the best advice I ever got. I moved to a small company, was on the board after just a few months, did almost everything, then moved into consulting, still in a small company environment. I didn't get rich (though I am today a lot better off than if I had stayed in large corporates) but I have had a very interesting ten years doing stuff I enjoyed. I would recommend anyone unsure of their job path to get a professional assessment.
Pining for the fjords
I was thinking that if Jimmy Carter was an introvert, then it might be a good thing we don't elect introverts.
For some reason, I've always liked Carter. I believe he was the best president during my lifetime. A more objective measure shows that he was about average with an average score of 26 out of 43.
Keep in mind that Abraham Lincoln is hovering around #1,2, or 3 on the list. He was an introvert. And would NEVER be elected to any kind of political office today. For some reason, that bothers me.
Bill Gates is extrovert (ENTj) and Linux Torvalds is introvert (INTp - aka "Geek") - note that this two types are very similiar. Steve Jobs is ENTp so he is very diffrent. More info at http://www.socionics.com/
I think this could be the best /. thread ever. Successive American administrations have fucked up enormously when it comes to foreign policy, meddling in matters that they couldn't fix even if they tried to do the right thing for everyone, and basically being dirty rotten bastards.
The thing about the Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan is that the Soviets would have been delighted to know the trouble that that would cause the decadent west as far into the future as 2005. Evil shits.
It's all Hitler's fault you know. Trace all of the ripples of trouble back through the century and where do you end up? Berlin 1945.
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
And yet you still can't spell populace right. I'd get a refund.
No, he spelled populous correctly; he used it incorrectly.
I want to drag this out as long as possible. Bring me my protractor.
And Berlin 1945 was only possible because of Versailles 1918. And Versailles 1918 was only possible because of Imperialism/Colonialism of all European/Wesetern nations wich was only possible because of trade and commerce which is only possible because of greed. But wait, greed is the recurring theme in anything that has been mentioned so far.
So if you want to do anything about it, fight greed and all it's symptoms.
Just because I can imagine doing a hippopotamus, doesn't mean I'd like to do it.
Vietnam was Nixon and Ford's war? Just like WWII was Trumans war, and Kosovo was Bush's war. Hahah, man you have no credibility, especially with those links. At least you're a step above those loonies thinking 9/11 was an inside job. So I'll give you that.
"In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
The entire Iran Contra affair as far as the "Iran" part, and the story you discussed was retracted by the New York Times, the paper that originally published it. It was completely insane, and required George Bush I to fly to Iran on an SR-71 as it was the only plane capable of getting there and back in time. Have you read the original story? Its a joke. Now, I have no doubt Reagan was selling weapons to the Contras, but so what! They were communists, and the president has that authority.
And Vietnam? What history are YOU reading? Vietnam was a Democrat war, like all wars of the 20th century save the Iraq wars. Nixon was the one who got us OUT of the war! Duh, why were the riots at the democratic national convention in 1968? Because of Johnson and vietnam!
As for Carter, his entire presidency was marked by double digit unemployment, inflation and interest rates. It was without a doubt, the worst time in American history since the depression. His presidency, by every reasonable measure, was a complete total failure and every year since has been remarkably better.
As usual, Carter and the democratic party was voted out of office because the American middle class was getting fucked, and making up all sorts of ridiculous stories like this does nothing to help your cause. You are the victim of the lies here jack, and unfortunately you just weren't alive when any of this happened so you don't know.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
First of all, the idea that introverts get their energy from being alone (and are therefore overloaded around others) and that extraverts get their energy from being around others (because they are understimulated when alone) is OLD OLD OLD OLD news. I think I read about this in "Please Understand Me", the original book by the original Myers-Briggs people. Indeed, Carl Jung may have recognized this even earlier than that.
Secondly, people seem to want to be overly binary about this. I know people who get most of their energy from being alone. Those are introverts. I know people who get most of their energy from being with other people. Those are extraverts. I know people who seem to require a balance. What are THEY called?
This dumbass was put into power by the Trilateral commission for one thing. But the guy has gone totally senile. he endorses communist dictators, poo poo's his own country's election process and now the bonehead actually believes that he didn't send in special forces to rescue the hostages in Iran. May the ghosts of those soldiers place a pox on his house!!!
Vietnam was Nixon's war because Nixon took over that catastrophe from Johnson, campaigning that he would end the war. Instead he expanded the war, including covert war on other neighboring countries not otherwise involved. Then he propped up the war in 1972 solely to win reelection. It's Ford's war, because Ford inherited it along with everything else he accepted from the Nixon he pardoned. And WWII was surely Truman's war (as well as FDR's), as he actually ran its ending, along with decisions that ended it more quickly. Your either/or logic is perfectly suited to keeping our moronic president where he can do most harm: in the White House.
Those links are mostly just Google searches on the nouns in the subjects I mention. If there were exonerating facts, they'd be in there, too. You can hide behind your denial, but what's scaring you is the truth: Bush is the worst president ever, and we're (probably) stuck with him for another 3 dangerous years.
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make install -not war
I'm a bit disappointed. I thought for sure that this post was a troll for comments about our current president's brain activity, or lack thereof. I'm always up for a good trouncing of President Bush and his administration. I guess I'll have to look elsewhere.
When Ronald Reagan became president I realized that many people in this country just don't trust intellectuals. They're more concerned, it would seem, about a president doing something evil rather than something stupid. One problem is that we have laws against doing something evil but there aren't any laws against doing something stupid. Stupid, like the new Medicare prescription drug program, you just have to live with.
"Meaningless!, Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless!"
There's also the conceit that powerful people have, that they can control the dangerous, powerful forces they unleash. They often get short-term gains, and longterm destruction.
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make install -not war
I wonder what environment the test subjects were in when they measured their brain activity.
I think it is more likely that they were measured in a lab with not much social activity, than at a party.
i.e. In an environment where introverts work better.
Perhaps if they were measured in a social environment, the extroverts would do better.
bits and peace
Nicholas Daley