Slashdot Mirror
The Revolution's Power And Launch Date
IGN is reporting on new details for Nintendo's next-generation console. They have discussion of the Revolution's graphical power, and some reflection on when the console might launch. From the former article: "Based on the information studios have relayed to us, Revolution is truly poised to cater to an altogether different game market than either Microsoft or Sony with their Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3 consoles respectively. Nintendo's machine will simply not deliver the same graphic horsepower as its competitors. Revolution is all about the controller and what it can do for gameplay experiences. When Revolution was initially unveiled, a Nintendo executive said it would be 'two-to-three times more powerful than GameCube.' The company never commented on Revolution's horsepower again and we were later told that the initial statement was incorrect. However, according to development houses, that description accurately sums up Revolution's power. "
The controller seams kind of cool, but more of a gimmick than functional.
It looks a hell of a lot better (to me) than the PS3 one.
Religion for nerds. Stuff that really matters
i didn't think sony had a launch date either.
Microsoft has thier system out already.
And there is still more buzz about the Revolution than it.
The Xbox 360 was uninteresting. The PS3 will be uninteresting. The Revolution is interesting.
If Nintendo fucks up, and delivers a platform that doesn't deliver on thier implied promise, then worry. Until/if that ever happens, they have the upper hand.
See the DS vs PSP.
DS has the same power of a N64. Maybe less.
PSP has the power of a Dreamcast. Possibly more (although not the same as a PS2, despite what Sony claims).
DS outsells PSP worldwide. Has more, and better games.
There are no rumors about a revolution. Rumors are treason.
XBox 360 is certainly out, but it has all the hallmarks of a product rushed to market. The Live integration seems to have been well polished, but what else? The overheating issues may or may not be as widespread as they are reported, but are a sad reality of the video game industry: you can sell a poorly designed 1st gen system that has an awful MTBF curve, and the consumers will still push old ladies out of line to buy it. Microsoft takes a huge loss on each system sold, and probably won't have a killer app until Halo 3. The backwards compatibility is a spotty work-in-progress. Given that we have yet to see whether or not the first-launched 360 has legs is not cause for "worry" about the Revolution. Sony is probably not behind the development curve, they just have to make claims to keep up in the press war like "Oh, we'll have backwards compatibility too!" and "PS3 will be a very expensive system!" Given the amount of FUD and marketing and questionable profitability of the economic models at work here, I'm looking forward to seeing if Nintendo's gamble pays off. To be worried at vague conjecture by the empty press releases, the gaming media that makes a mountain out of every molehill, and the warring fanboys is absurd.
No developer that chatted with us had, or was willing to share, details on the console's GPU, Hollywood. One studio said: "As soon as we find out what it can do then we'll know if Revolution will just be like an Xbox or something a little more."
So all this speculation is based on guesstimates of the main CPU's power and the amount of system RAM? That tells us approximately 0.9% of squat about the graphics capability of the Revolution. Thanks for wasting my time, IGN.
I love it how even though nobody is even using a revolution dev kit, they are commenting on system specs, of witch they obviously don't have.
I love to slaughter the english language.
A lot of people called the DS a gimmick but it has faired very well. Selling a lot of systems and creating a fun handheld with a lot of potential that is being taken advantage of. And I"m sure there's a lot more on the way.
I don't worry about the Revolution being a gimmick. It's innovation. It'll open up whole new possiblities in console gaming. Also having a system only two to three times more powerful is enough. Flashy graphics only get a system and its games only so far. I am not worried about the Revolution at all. While it might not outsell the PS3 I am pretty confident that Nintendo will turn a nice profit off of it and those of us who embrace the Revolution will be thrilled with endless hours of fun gameplay.
"Armed forces abroad are of little value unless there is prudent counsel at home" - Cicero
Sony doesn't have a launch date, either. They don't even have a controller (it has been said a number of times that the batarang would be revised, but no revision has yet been shown to the public). They don't have an online plan. If I was worried about anyone right now, it'd be Sony.
Also, too many people fall back on the "too gimmicky" argument. I can't tell you how many Nintendo DS reviews called games "gimmicky" for using the touch screen one way or another, prior to the June launch of Kirby and Meteos, which were both uniformly praised. Games like Feel the Magic would not have been the same without a touch screen, yet usage of the DS's signature feature was written off as a gimmick. Discrediting something a gimmick is a pretty lame assertion, since anything can be seen as a gimmick. Two analog sticks? Gimmick. Shoulder buttons? Gimmick. See where I'm going?
Maybe I'm just not picky, but I haven't really been terribly upset with the Cube's graphics. In fact games like Metroid Prime 1 & 2, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles, Resident Evil 4, and it would seem the new Zelda are just graphically stunning. (in fact Wind Waker was too, in a completely different way). Three times that is almost overkill. The Xbox 360 I would say, from what I've seen, is barely hitting that metric, except of course it can do HD, which really only matters for 5-10% of gamers anyway. Sure it's early, and I'm sure by the time we're almost done with the 360 it'll far surpassed anything I can differentiate (would anyone have possibly imagined a game that looks as good as Shadow of the Collosus could have come out of the PS2 when it launched in 2000?), but we're hitting the photorealistic barrier pretty hard as it is. There's only so much more graphical power is going to be able to accomplish. However, hype is everything, and having an "underpowered" console isn't going to help Nintendo regain their hardcore group. It seems like they've given up on them anyway. Which is fine, they aren't terribly good gamers anyway. With online I'm going to have to interact with fellow Revolution gamers and it will probably be a good thing that it won't be filled with the sort of people who eat marketing hype like candy and actually care about graphical powers that might possibly result in a fractionally better looking game.
--The universe will not be altered by forum threads, even those which are very wry. --Tycho Brahe (Penny Arcade)
I'll take good games over good graphics any day
The real reason for the PSP not selling as well as the DS is the audience and the games. I've used both and I believe the PSP is far superior in every way shape and form. Screen is better, it's much more ergnomic, and the graphic quality is outstanding. However, it doesn't have games that target the market the device itself is going into. That's where the DS shines and shines brightly.
In retrospect, I thought the same about the game gear vs. the game boy. IMHO, The game boy Sucked. Yes I had one, and yes I bought games for it. The games were cool, the device sucked, but since the games were so good, I kept playing it and everyone else did too. Even though, IMHO, The game gear was better.
So as you pointed out the DS has better games than the PSP. And the games will make or break the Revolution. If the controller fits those games and it's all worth playing, they WILL SELL. But if the controller does turn out to be a gimmick (which, though I haven't had the chance to try one, it really looks like it to me) and there aren't games or any real reasons for people to buy the Revolution, It's going to be a sign that Nintendo isn't going to be able to cut it anymore in the big screen arena.
-=JML=-
If they bundle the original Super Mario Brothers, and Duck Hunt onto the console at launch.. then I'm in man! I haven't shot ducks in duck hunt since I took a shovel to my old NES!
If i wanted to hear bullshit, i'd go to church.
The entire controller is motion-sensitive?
what?
So basically, you can't even shift your body once you start the game, otherwise your character will end up doing some funky jig. Dunno about the rest of you, but that seems mildly uncomfortable to put it mildly.
And what if you don't sit in a position that keeps the controller level? I use a beanbag, and my TV is several feet above the floor. So I'm usually at an angle towards the TV. Will Solid Snake be perpetually looking up as well since my controller is raised 45 degrees?
You know, I'm thinking that 2x-3x as powerful as the gamecube is about the same power as the 360 (and PS3 as well). People flipped out about that statement originally, assuming it meant the revolution was going to be some underpowered system, but every 360 game I see looks pretty much like this generation with less compression on the textures and higher res video.
I'm not too worried about the revolution giving us some good games, but I'm worried about mainstream gamers opening their eyes outside of MTV and IGN enough to see the potential.
I wouldn't worry too much about Nintendo, I think of all of the companies that are involved in the 'Next Generation' Nintendo's strategy is the strongest. How many times (in the past couple of years) have you played a game that was superior to most of the games that came before it and yet it was disapointing; Doom 3 and Quake 4 are probably the best examples but there are others. This is because improved Graphics, Sound and other features do not really translate into better gameplay experiances. Will Madden 2007 really be better on the Next Generation platforms than Madden 2006 was on the PS2?Now, don't get me wrong, I think the Revolution will provide a nice graphical improvement over the Gamecube, but (as with the XBox 360) the graphical improvement alone doesn't provide much of a benefit to most end users.
The controller as a 'gimick' or as a device that doesn't work all that well is something I hear all the time on these forums and I think that it is a huge misconception. There are 3 well known (reasonably) mature technologies that are being used in the Revolution controller; devices that have been used in the HCI (human computer interaction) community for almost a decade now. A gyroscopic rotational control has been used by several people to produce 'free-hand' mice; a translational device has been used in several (Minority Report like) gestural control devices; and an optical sensor device has been used to create many pointer-mouse controls (for demonstration purposes). The reason that none of these devices caught on was that they had limitations that prevented them from being as good as a conventional control setup; what is odd is that no one saw that the limitations of one was the strength of another and combined the devices (which is essentially what Nintendo did). The convergence of these technologies may provide a device which is better than the sum of it's parts, in which case I would say it would be one of the best HCI devices ever.
Now, whether you see the Revolution controller as a gimick or the way of the future I can say this; by being so distinct in the market it will only help Nintendo sell systems. I have shown the 'teaser trailer' to everyone from the most devout gamer to a person who's last game experiance was Pac-Man and (almost) all of their reactions were "I'd really like to try that". If the revolution is inexpensive enough I am willing to bet that many of those "I'd really like to try that" becomes "I'm going to buy that"
i had a game gear. got it becasue the bigger color screen seemed great. the batteries only lasted about 1hr. not fun.
The war with islam is a war on the beast
The war on terror is a war for peace
Based on my contacts at a few dev. studios, they all seem excited about developing for the system and the overall feel I have received is that it will be about 2x as powerful as a Gamecube powerwise.
However, folks tend to forget that the Gamecube offered 8 layer texture mapping... 8. That is huge, however, the GC was simply not powerful enough to really do anything meaningful with a screen full of 8 layer polys.
If the graphics chip ends up being a slightly updated GC chip, I'm cool with that. I have seen what can be done in demos on the GC and sweet Jebus is it amazing!... yet only graphic demos.
So if the system ends up about 2-3x as powerful with a 1.5x GPU you now have a very capable system that can produce graphics plenty pretty enough to look stunning even on a HD set.
I truly believe that the folks who are mainly concerned with numbers and horsepower will stay away from the Revolution - or maybe buy one in addition to another system - and that is FINE. There are so many families and casual gamers out there clamoring for a simpler system that the numbers will eclipse us "hardcore" gamers. While we are strong, we are few in the grand scheme of things. Realize that more Billions of dollars are pulled in by many forms of entertainment like Barbie dolls annually than out beloved hardcore gaming demographic. When Nintendo taps this wide market, Sony and MS will soon be doing an about face and targeting them too.
I wish Nintendo and the true spirit of gaming nothing but the best, and I will be purchasing a Revolution on day 1 and have my pre-order in as soon as they become available to help show the amount of initial interest and garner as much developer support as possible.
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
Perhaps yours was defective or you were using non-alkaline and non-rechargable batteries? I used ni-cad rechargables and got at least 2 hours. Alkalines were good for 3+. At home of course I used the AC Adapter.
Loved that system.
The color screen as I remember it is still better in some aspects than what I've seen of the DS. I did mostly play it with the adapter, which developed a break. I liked the "Psychic World" on it better than the Master System version. Then there was this cloudy maze game where a dragon's egg followed you, and if you got far enough it turned into a dragon. It had cursed swords that you could not unequip. Would still have it too, except for a situation I'd rather not get into.
The touch screen is written off as a gimmick because for most games it is a gimmick. There are a few that use it well, but for most games it is just an annoying gimmick.
Take Castlevania, for instance. Wonderful game, but the use of the touch screen was just intrusively stupid. Then there was Dr Driller (or whatever it was called). The touch screen was only usefull for the menus. Mario 64? The touch screen was horrid, unless you only wanted to play those little "side games".
So far, I know of 3 good games that use the DS features. Meteos, which ignores all of the buttons in favor of the touch screen. Nintendogs, which I will have to take on faith. And Kirby, which I enjoyed the demo of, but haven't played. Any others? Even Mario Kart DS ignores it.
As someone else said, it could calibrate the stick on startup. What he forgot is it could auto-calibrate on booting, so the player doesn't have to.
Moreover, games will use different movements for actions, so simply shifting on the sofa won't automatically do something on-screen. Worst-case scenario is the character is in a dangerous situation and the player has to pause before shifting themselves. How inconvenient is this to most people? Not very. For those with hemorrhoids who need to squirm, I suggest applying Preparation H before playing.
Wrong. Expect the PS3 to come out in the summer or fall at about the same time as the Revolution. Sony knows it needs awesome games, not just incremental improvements like the 360 launch titles, and that takes time. Sony also never was ready for a Christmas 2005 launch, and only said Spring 2006 to get gamers to wait before buying a 360.
I had a crazy thought a few days ago.
Sony said that they still had a major surprise to reveal about the PS3. What if that surprise is that their controller also has a gyroscopic sensors built into it, giving it the same capabilities as the Revolution controller?
This would make Microsoft and their "traditional" controller the odd man out. Sony's market share (coupled with Nintendo's market share) would push developers away from the 360. Why would Sony side with the big N? Sony's not worried about Nintendo taking away its customers because the PS3 is a more powerful system and follows in the footsteps of the PS2, which already has an install base of around 100 million.
In the meantime, Nintendo can compete with Sony by having a lower-priced system, and by relying on its franchises (Mario and company) to sell the new games. Both companies are winners, while Microsoft's future doesn't look that great.
Take this post with a proverbial grain of salt - it's more of a what-if scenario.
Metroid Prime will use it to simulate mouselook (it works awesomely in the demo).
Advance Wars allows you to use it, and also allows the traditional GBA control scheme.
Trauma Centre, it's integral to the game play.
There's also point-and-click adventure games (Phoenix Wright, Lost in Blue) where it makes sense.
Furthermore, ports of PC games (there are confirmed ports of Europa Universalis II and Age of Empires on the way to the DS) will be MUCH more natural with a touch screen than with a d-pad.
Polarium is great with the stylus and really wouldn't work any other way.
Metroid Prime First Hunt was great with it.
But yes, it's true, few DS games have really broken new ground with it...
I found the side games in M64 more fun than the main one.
Other than that, I find that Kirby and Trauma Center make good use of the touch screen. From friends who like FPSes, Hunters takes getting used to but the control sceme with the touchpad is good. Some games use the touchpad pointlessly just to say they use it, but it really is adding real value ot the system by allowing game types that would be difficult or impossible without it.
THe Rev controller will likely be the same way- some good games that use it, some good games that don't, some games that use it poorly as a gimmick. So long as group 1 exists, its a plus overall.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
Metroid Prime will use it to simulate mouselook (it works awesomely in the demo).
If by "awesomely" you mean "induces agonizing hand and wrist pain," yes.
That is the biggest problem I have with the DS. I enjoy most of the games, but it is the least ergonomic device I've ever used. I can only play Mario Kart DS for 20 minutes or so before I have to put it down. I hope that they release a revised version some day that isn't so painful to use.
I think they'll be fine. Nintendo already sell a lot more hardware than the competition and make money doing so. The XBOX360 still just looks like a small PC, nothing new or original. The PS3 and Revolution seem to both add something new and fresh.
For Nintendo fans, the Revolution offers a great deal; it's next gen plus plays all the old stuff ! Nintendo always suited families better due to more original, fun and family friendly games.
The PS2 offered the teenager/adult a lot more mature gaming, I'd expect the PS3 to be like that but with more impressive games.
The XBOX always seems the odd one out, the only advantage it has this time, is that it's out first.
Unlikely, but possible. They'd have to work around Nintendo's patents and licensing agreement with Gyration, or use a completely different tech, but it may be doable.
The key to the enjoyment of pop music is to replace any instance of "love" with "C.H.U.D."
I mean Microsoft already has their system out; Sony will have their system out soon. And Nintendo doesn't even have a launch date.
Do you remember the SNES, N64, and Game Cube? They all came to the table after the competition. Nintendo has a wait and see and do things right attitude rather than the first to market.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
for the programmers. Sure, Solaris for the Atari 2600 is amazing, but it'd be a heck of a lot easier to write the same game for the NES. More horsepower means less time spent optimizing and more on stablizing and tweaking gameplay.
As a side note, I like the idea of the controllers. When I get old and decrepit and can't hold a ps2 controller I can still play a Revolution.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
This is precicely the point Nintendo is trying to make about system design. No, the DS isn't as graphically impressive as the PSP, and no, it hasn't got as nice a screen.
But then again, PSP costs 100 bucks more, has much shorter battery life, and uses a mechanical drive, which IMHO, sucks (as a free extra you get glorious load times).
The PSP is trying to bring the PS2 experience to your pocket. Not that it can't be fun, but I don't play home consoles like I play handhelds.
Why do you think there are so few developers interested in making games for PSP? The answer is simple: it makes more sense for them to make them on PS2. The DS however, is a wholly different platform, both in terms of possibilities and expectations.
The DS has a more natural approach to handheld gaming, mainly because of it's touchscreen, and demonstrates how handheld games can and should be, without needing super-expensive components and horsepower to be more fun.
Nintendo is persuing the same goal with the revolution.
Not that the success of the DS isn't because of it's games, but saying that's the only reason why the DS is more appealing is wrong.
I know of a system that doesn't require high definition, but still enables people to become completely absorbed in a photorealistic, life-like world. The system is designed around using incredibly complex models and taking in billions of scattered rays of light off them from a particular viewing angle and running it through a process that similar to anti-aliasing, but 1000 times better. It's called a television broadcast.
Seriously, my family's HDTV takes a satellite signal from an S-video (i.e. low def) cable and puts out one incredible image. Yes, I can't see all of the skin pores all the time and clothing textures and faraway grass may look slightly blurred, but overall the picture looks VERY sharp, and it is definitely photorealistic enough to make watching a good movie an engrossing experience.
My point is that even if a system doesn't have a high-def output, it can use all of its horsepower in creating more polygons, more textures, more AA/AF, higher framerates, etc., etc., etc. Incidentally, this could have the potential create a more photorealistic image from the same horsepower than if the graphics were produced for ultracrisp high-def. This is especially true if you are sitting more than four feet (1.3 meters) away from your TV set while playing.
The Dual-Shock controller was proof-positive that Sony doesn't give a shit about violating patents. Whether they do it or not will depend on how much added revenue such a thing will bring in vs. how much they'll have to pay out in a settlement or court battle.
This poo is cold.
See this is the problem. Introduce something NEW, and the sheep think they will want to play the same old games still. WAKE UP BUDDY! If you want yet another Solid Snake game, then stick to your Playstation or Xbox. Meanwhile, the Revolution is promising NEW KINDS of interactive entertainment.
Don't use the left shoulder button, to use items, use x instead.
This is why the Revolution will sell more than expected, maybe more than the PS3. The Rev will debut for probably $200-$300 less than the PS3, yet on your television, in the commercials for the games THEY WILL BOTH LOOK THE SAME.
That's not the issue.
It's that the case for the thing is gigantic and top heavy and the buttons are tiny and awkwardly placed way over on the edge. Since it's already so gigantic, I wish they'd go the extra mile and add some grips to the bottom of it. It would alleviate the "crab pinch" grip you have to use.
For games like Metroid where using my thumb on the screen is required, I cramp almost immediately. There is no way you can reach the top or far left side of the touch screen without causing pain. My thumbs are fairly long, too.
I'll save griping about the tiny stylus for tomorrow.
Seriously now, $400 U.S. or $500 CAN. Who cares, I spent that on my last video card for my PC. It is only fair that console owner pay the price for consoles killing the supply of good games for the P.C. Hardcore camers used to spend hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars to get the biggest and baddest gaming PC, and most still do, can you say W.O.W. That's what made PC games "10 times" better than consoles at the time. The time has come that consoles are aproaching the capabilities of a PC. Before you start saying that it's not all about graphics, I have to say, absolutelly. The 360 is not just about a box with better graphics, yes it does have better graphics, and processing power. But it can become the centre of your home entertainment unit, if you have a home network it is further enhanced. For instance, my 360 is hoked up to my home network, I can watch recorded shows which are stored on my PC, I can browse, create playlists and listen to all the music on my PC. Also, I can hook up my wife's Ipod, or my digital camera, or my pocket PC. Try doing that with a Gamecube, better yet the PS3, hmmm. I ask you this: Is the PS3 going to support it's very own PSP. Rummor has it that it will not, but you can stick the memory card in it. Is the PS3 going to have a hard drive? How about the Revolution? To be perfectly honest, I was going to wait for the PS3. This is the first box I bought since the Turbo Graphics 16... Yeah, I know! I moved to the box because I want to play games other than FPS, I got sick of having 4 different gamepads and none of them being supported by certain games, Tired of having to go and buy a new video card at least once a year. The 360 is an easy move from P.C. gaming to console gaming. You don't loose much and you gain consistency.
Actually, I read a developer's interview in an issue of Game Informer that said the PSP's power was similar to that in the original Playstation, but with significantly better graphics hardware.
The DS' power, meanwhile, is like a weaker N64, but with slightly *better* graphics: note that Mario Kart DS contains MK64 tracks but also renders polygonal characters, instead of resorting to MK64's cheaty, sprite-based rendering of drivers and karts.
I don't think the DS/PSP battle is over yet, but the recent rush of consecutive must-have software for the DS (Kirby, Nintendogs, Meteos, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, and * Advance Wars *) has given it an advantage.
Castlevania's use of the touch aspect, I agree, was gimmicky, but the screen aspect was great: for the first time in a Metroid-style game, we could have the whole map visible during exploration! THAT I liked.
While Advance Wars allows you to use it, creating a much better conrol scheme, I believe it's most suited, even more so than a mouse, for RTS, both ports and not. It's much more intuitive to move a unit by pointing to it than to move a thing with a cord on it until an arrow points to it.
The uncanny valley effect is about *robotics* and NOT computer graphics. It's the things that walk & talk and pretend to be human that give some people shivers, NOT things they see on a screen.
I have the same problem. I tried playing Mario64DS with the touchscreen, but it's just so awkward to hold the DS and move your thumb on the screen. I can just about hold it comfortably and touch the bottom left corner of the screen.