Linux Boots on Treo 650

nilbog writes "A major leap forward has taken place in the development of Linux for the Treo 650. Grack.com has posted screenshots of a Cingular branded 650 displaying the familiar penguin logo. A discussion has sprung up over the the treo central forums where Shadowmite, one of the developers, has confirmed that it shouldn't be too long before they are able to get the phone's hardware working under linux. "

Comments

SUCK IT SHITBASGS

[Anonymous Coward]

GKSDFL I WIN

Treo 600

[bhadreshl]

Does it also work for Treo 600?

Re:Treo 600

[Reapman]

I'm by no means an expert on this stuff, but I do own a Treo 600 (wanting a 650 or whatever comes next) however from what I've read the 600 and 650 use a different cpu architecture, so I'm pretty sure that this would not work. I know that the options for overclocking are more limited on the 600. If anyone knows this stuff better then me please correct.

Re:Treo 600

[bhtooefr]

The 90, 180(?), and 300 are all Dragonball-based Palm OS 3.x (IIRC) and 4.x devices.

The 600 and 650 are both ARM-based (same CPU architecture - less OCing options doesn't necessarily mean a different architecture) Palm OS 5.x devices. IIRC, the main differences are the screen, and the 650's Bluetooth, and Flash memory instead of SDRAM for program storage.

Re:Treo 600

[Reapman]

I stand corrected, I asssumed the 600 was using Dragonball, not ARM. Reason why I brought up the O/C'ng was when I researched it out (600 is sooooo slow I find) I thought I read that you can't use the same program because the CPU is different. This was quite awhile ago however.

Re:Treo 600

[wiml]

Dragonball refers to (at least?) two CPU architectures. The Dragonball is a line of embeddable CPU chips from Motorola (now Freescale); it's what PalmPilots have been using since day one. But "dragonball" is a product line or brand name, not an architecture. The older chips were based on the Motorola 68k architecture; the newer ones are based on the ARM920T architecture.

The Treo 300 used an m68k processor; the 600 and 650 both use ARMs.

Re:Treo 600

[gg3po]

So this means porting to the Treo 600 should be easy, right?! :-)

Got some Kharma to burn here

[sheepab]

Imagine a beowulf cluster of these. Maybe even a wireless beowulf cluster!

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[TheRealMindChild]

A Beowulf cluster? Bah. I trump thee with an OpenSSI cluster of Trios! Imagine the roaming charges....

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[MarkGriz]

"Imagine a beowulf cluster of these"

Yeah, but you skipped right over the obvious "But does it run.... oh nevermind" joke.

BTW, you misspelled "karma". I've got some to burn as well. Can I get a -1 Spelling Nazi?

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but does it run GNOME?

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[Anonymous Coward]

Scroo that, does it run the Sony rootkit (tm) ?!!

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[gg3po]

Yes, but does it run GNOME?

Not if Linus has anything to say about it! :-)

Re:Got some Kharma to burn here

[Cyberax]

Well, here is an article (sorry, in Russian) about a cluster of iPAQs (connected using IRDA): http://hard.compulenta.ru/2003/10/9/42473/

Slashdot that Treo!

[matthiasryan]

But how long until we can slashdot a webserver running on a Treo 650?

Re:Slashdot that Treo!

[pllewis]

It already has one. httpd for the palm.

already been done,

[Anonymous Coward]

http://treo650hack.com

Re:already been done,

[Liquorman]

Don't fall for the previous poster's faux link to some spammy site!

Thank You Linux Virus

[Eli Gottlieb]

You spread onto all sorts of hardware, so it's not like anyone could write a decent operating system for them and compete.

Yes, I know my karma is going to suffer immensely for this, but it must be said. Linux spreads and spreads and spreads to all different sorts of hardware, but when are they going to slow down and open up space for other operating systems?

Why New Operating Systems Won't Stand a Chance

Something really should change, and it would be rather nice if Linux could stop spreading itself onto every last piece of hardware in the world.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[bobintetley]

This wouldn't have anything to do with you being the developer of another free kernel?

Besides, I hardly think Linux "spreads itself". Although that would be cool.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Eli Gottlieb]

It has everything to do with my being a kernel developer, of course. However, my motivation doesn't make my point any less valid.

Linux is a Unix clone that is spreading itself onto every bit of hardware imaginable. When is somebody going to decide they don't want Linux on the XYZ 123 (at which point Glider probably won't be ready to run on that system, but I can hope, pray and dream, can't I?) so that someone with a development team and an idea for a revolution that would finally move the OS world past Unix can come in and say "our system works great on the XYZ 123, won't you try it on your database box?"

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude, you've got a mostly-empty Sourceforge page with an alpha version of a kernel that you're writing in fucking Pascal, and you can't understand why it's so hard for you to compete with Linux?

Well, you can keep on wondering, because if you don't get it already, there's no way anyone can explain it to you.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[aonaran]

Isn't it a little early for you to be getting bitter about competition with Linux?
You only just made your first code release 9 days ago and the only information I can find about it is it's coded in Pascal and it finally boots and recognizes IRQ. I think there's a few years of development and some communication about what you can do well (when you have somethinig that you can do) before you need to get upset about Linux beating you to new hardware.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[IANAAC]

When is somebody going to decide they don't want Linux on the XYZ 123 (at which point Glider probably won't be ready to run on that system, but I can hope, pray and dream, can't I?) so that someone with a development team and an idea for a revolution that would finally move the OS world past Unix can come in and say "our system works great on the XYZ 123, won't you try it on your database box?"

You realize you're welcome to do that at any time. It's not as if the Treo folk came in and said "Make Linux run on this."

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Eli Gottlieb]

Have you ever visited OSnews.com? Most of the kernels there are written in C/C++, and they can't seem to compete with Linux either.

I don't expect anyone to be using my kernel at alpha, before it's usable for much other than telling time. However, I've seen AmigaOS 4.0 and SkyOS and Syllable and nobody uses them, even though they're into real usable versions and written in C-derivatives.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[JourneymanMereel]

And you can't say that now because Linux is also capable of running on a piece of hardware? Does your OS work better on said device than Linux or not... because if the answer is "yes" then it shouldn't matter if linux can be ported to said device. The only reason it should matter is if your OS is inferior to Linux and you're hoping to get defacto acceptance.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, but the archive seems to be corrupted...

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Vanders]

It's very early to be talking about OSs like Syllable competing with Linux. None of the core Syllable developers even use Syllable full time, so we wouldn't expect anyone else to do so at the moment either. I suspect your definition of "real usable" and the vast majority of users is very different. Yes, Syllable is usable, and early in 2006 some of us will hopefully start to use Syllable much more heavily.

Placing yourself in competition with an OS the size of Linux takes a lot of time and effort. It takes even more effort to succeed.

Current OS's arn't competiting with Linux right now because we're not in a position to compete, not because of the size of Linux. If you want to gain market share in the Open Source world you need to produce a better product, that's all.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Eli Gottlieb]

However, in the OSS world one of the stepping stones to gaining market share is gaining developers, which is where both of us are forced to compete with Linux right now.

Perhaps, that then, is the change that needs to be made: less fanaticism for *nix and more general coding for alternative OS's. If either you or I made the claim we didn't want a nice community helping us hack our code we'd be lying, but most of those hackers that exist do so for Linux.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right - your motivation doesn't make your point less valid. The fact that it's complete garbage is what does that.
  It's not our responsibility in the linux community that you want a bit of fame for yourself for starting yet another kernel project. Writing a kernel from scratch is a hobbyist activity, or at best in order to fulfill some odd purpose on strange hardware. The fact that the linux kernel boots on something doesn't preclude you porting your kernel to it. Don't for a moment kid yourself that the only reason that nobody cares what your kernel runs on is that linux already does. The real reason is you haven't created anything of note. Make something better than linux, with more hardware support, and then you can complain about the "linux virus".

Despite my nasty "how-dare-you-attack-the-precious" tone, I agree with you in a way. Moving on from unix is a lofty goal, well worth working on. Don't be yet another radical loud-mouthed conspiracy theorist dumbass troll programmer. We have more than enough of those.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[MrLizardo]

FreeBSD doesn't seem to be doing too badly, and it's competing right in Linux's own backyard: x86. The problem isn't some kind of Linux conspiracy, it's that people want a usable system without having to write half the userland themselves while hacking on the kernel. This also explains the obsession with Unix-workalikes: They already have lots of usable programs. If you're going to start from scratch you have to accept that there will be a huge time investment before anyone else cares. Maybe Linux seems like it got popular overnight (only took 14 years right?), but keep in mind that RMS had been hacking on the GNU tools since 10 years before Linux's inception. So, yes I'm all for new ideas and I like trying out new OSes, but don't try and blame the amorphous cloud that is Linux for somehow keeping people from trying new OSes.

-Mr. Lizard

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[Eli Gottlieb]

You seem a pretty darned sensible AC, but you miss a point. Producing a kernel/OS with a better design than *nix is easy, researchers have been making efforts at it and decently succeeding for decades. Giving it a developer community and hardware support (the two are correlated) is incredibly difficult because:

1.Not a single major operating system such as Windoze, Linux or a BSD has adopted UDI or any other standard that would make drivers portable between operating systems.
2.Nobody wants to port to an OS with no users, nobody wants to use an OS with no drivers and nobody wants to write drivers for an OS with no software.
3.Few people want the work of porting software and drivers to a kernel that works in a radically different way from previous operating systems. Thus, operating systems will tend towards evolution rather than revolution. Hence, Linux.

These are very real problems for anyone choosing to create a new operating system, and in the Open Source spirit I'm giving the ideas that I have on the matter here:

1.Implement UDI or another standard that you and some other group of kernel developers (mainstream or hobbyist) can agree on. Being able to share drivers between operating systems is essential, because it allows a new and revolutionary operating system access to any hardware with a standard-compliant driver. We shouldn't let its "hurting the Free Software movement" hold us back from implementing something with plenty of technical merit.
2 & 3.Lots of high-level interpreted or byte-code languages are coming into heavy mainstream use nowadays. Integrate them into the OS! Having a Java/.NET VM or a Perl, Python or even Lisp interpreter at the shell level (or one step above) would give a new OS immmediate access to all software that runs under these languages without binding to an operating system specific feature. This may be a subset of those language's software, but it is significant.

Re:Thank You Linux Virus

[setagllib]

Relax. Linux' large developer base is the reason for its mess and increasing bureaucracy. It's getting to the stage where code being too clean for the rest of the kernel is a reason to not include it in mainline (this was an argument against Reiser4).

Working on more minor projects with less random hacker interest and less pressure to keep up is the only way to result in a clean product. Rushing to compete rarely achieves anything. Not many people care about the quality of the code until it affects the quality of the product. And every Linux 'oops, my last commit broke everything, sorry' changelog entry speaks for itself.

This is why the BSDs survive despite having several orders of magnitude less developer resources. Less to manage, low pressure, good work done. FreeBSD is falling to Linux' disease of over-coding under-thinking, in particular the new complexity in 5/6 which is making it much harder to develop. They have recovered from the brutal side effects of the new SMP stack but how DragonFly's competes has yet to be seen, and the latter was done with much less mucking about, less segfaults, and much less in the way of resources.

However, Linux' incredibly large developer base means it can do just about anything (except, strangely, proper jails), and also run on just about anything too. However, not everything is done cleanly. In *one*day* (as per my reading of KernelPlanet, NOT by post time), these two posts on KernelPlanet made me break into a cold sweat:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/zaitcev/43337.htm l
http://ganesha.gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2005/1 2/06/#20051206-libusb

The first outlines how failure to plan ahead lead to a hacky solution to what should have been a simple problem. The latter is an example of how some kernel developers just go and do something really stupid and people don't notice until it's too late.

Sure, these things happen in other systems, but they're easier to notice when there's only 20 developers, compared to 20,000. When you can afford to track every commit, you can easily notice if something stupid is happening. Add to this that Linux committers are fine with accepting small *anonymous* commits, and you have a clear path to utter failure.

So don't worry about your project. Sure few people will even know it exists, but at least you can sleep at night knowing it's as clean as you can make it.

Or use your talent to empower DragonFly BSD, which still has the potential to usurp Linux with its SMP stack, one of the most popular reasons to use Linux instead of (say) NetBSD.

Linux Logo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow displaying the Linux logo doesn't really add up to a fully installed system to me :).
When are they actually going to run linux?

Re:Linux Logo?

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is the kernel. In this case, mission accomplished. Maybe you mean the GNU tools?

It would be neat to do...

[Xserv]

But it's already crashed.

Major leap forward?

[hackwrench]

I'm sorry, but getting something to display the penguin logo is not a major leap forward for anything. Furthermore the display of the pengin logo is not proof of linux running.

Re:Major leap forward?

[Rayban]

Both of those are understandable points, but I'll address them here:

For the former, it's just showing that it's possible to run Linux at all on the phone. We've got all the pieces available (Linux Kernel, GPE environment, GSM/CDMA AT command set etc.), it's just a matter of connecting all the those pieces together to create a full open-source GSM/CDMA phone on highly-available hardware.

For the latter, you'll need to just trust that it's actually working (note that a lot of the hardware is supported by the handhelds.org kernel already). It's also using the PXA27x processor - a very well-documented and well-understood processor with open specifications.

Re:Major leap forward?

[LWATCDR]

So how long before we get a Treo basied beatbox?

Re:Major leap forward?

[dfghjk]

"highly-available" doesn't mean what you think it means. What you mean to say is that it's something you can easily buy. Availability is the "A" in RAS (reliablity, availability, servicability). Saying a piece of computer hardware is highly available doesn't mean it's easily bought!

For those willing to buy a Treo 650 and the phone service with it, what can a Linux port offer that's more desirable than what they get out of the box? Are you going to get the same SMS/MMS/email capability, the same productivity apps, the same phone integration, the same data capabilities that you get already? The same sync capability with your desktop? Are open source apps better than the ones available for the 650 now at doing the things that a Treo owner wants to do? Pretty much no on all counts. Linux may be cool on a Treo like it is on other things but it isn't useful.

Re:Major leap forward?

[ScuxxletButt]

I can think of one app that I'd use a lot... ssh. Is that available on the Treo as is? Having an actual file system would be pretty kick ass too. FTP? Being able to grab config files while out on the road and then work on them directly on my handheld anywhere in the world wold get me to buy it too. Sitting in Central Park on a nice spring day while having a picnic and still getting my work done. Awesome. A hell of lot lighter than a laptop, too.

What a great sysadmin tool.

The more I think about it, the more I want one...

Re:Major leap forward?

[Peter La Casse]

SSH is available on the Treo, but none of the SSH implementations that I've found support port forwarding. What I'd like to be able to do is run SSH in the background and tunnel connections from various other programs over it, which isn't easy (and might not be possible) with existing PalmOS applications (though there's one for-pay VNC client that claims to have ssh tunneling capability that I have been meaning to explore.) One of the major obstacles is the PalmOS itself, which wasn't designed to have multiple programs running at once, according to the web sites of some of these SSH projects.

Re:Major leap forward?

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"what can a Linux port offer that's more desirable than what they get out of the box"

An operating system that doesn't suck? Palm OS was decent in 1996, but today I want an OS that doesn't randomly freeze, that doesn't randomly reboot and that allows me to run more application at once.

Re:Major leap forward?

[misleb]

Pretty much no on all counts. Linux may be cool on a Treo like it is on other things but it isn't useful.

You're not much of a hacker, are you?

-matthew

Re:Major leap forward?

[John Hurliman]

One issue with cellphones right now is that the (A)GPS API is closed off to third party applications on all phones except for Motorolas. Will it be possible to interface with the GPS hardware on the phone through Linux?

Re:Major leap forward?

[Monkelectric]

For those willing to buy a Treo 650 and the phone service with it, what can a Linux port offer that's more desirable than what they get out of the box? Are you going to get the same SMS/MMS/email capability, the same productivity apps, the same phone integration, the same data capabilities that you get already? The same sync capability with your desktop? Are open source apps better than the ones available for the 650 now at doing the things that a Treo owner wants to do? Pretty much no on all counts. Linux may be cool on a Treo like it is on other things but it isn't useful.

Stability. My treo locks up daily. I *LOVE* it. But it locks up daily. I would seriously pay money for an OS replacement... the hardware is *GREAT* but palm OS is and always has been a joke that wasn't fucking funny. The only reason I use it is IMHO WinCE is worse, and I've heard blackberrys have much the same problem.

Re:Major leap forward?

[sych]

mine doesn't crash that often - maybe once a fortnight. it's possibly something you could fix up by cleaning out cruft or removing a bad app (yes, the OS shouldn't let bad apps fuck things up, but it does).

palm has support articles describing hard-resetting the palm, then re-installing all your apps and pdb's one-by-one. what you might find is that there's still mess around from an old app you thought you removed, and that cleanly reinstalling everything will fix it all up. (hey, sounds like Windows!)

but yeah, certainly not once a day for mine.

Re:Major leap forward?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it can pkzip text messages?

Re:Major leap forward?

[lkcl]

that's already been done:

http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/BlueAngel

Re:Major leap forward?

[jericho4.0]

In fact, it's the difference between 'We don't know what's wrong, it's a black screen and we're not sure if we're reading these logic traces correctly' and 'We have a working toolchain, and the kernel is sending error messages to the display', it's the watershed moment in any port. Now it's comparativly straightforward to work with.

Re:Major leap forward?

[drinkypoo]

Have you considered Nokia's linux webpad? If you just got a basic phone with bluetooth but no other options (they're out there - hell you could use a used T68i with BT module) then you could do everything else on your webpad, which is a better handheld than an old palm anyway. And best of all, it seemed to actually be reasonably priced.

Re:Major leap forward?

[merky1]

I agree that right now, linux on the 650 makes no sense. But with Palm selling out to MSFT (winCE palm), I doubt the future is going to hold much for my phone. For example, the browser has issues, and I doubt that palm / sprint / anyone will fix it. At least with it running an embedded linux, I can get support from the community... Which is the linux way, right?

Re:Major leap forward?

[theLOUDroom]

Linux may be cool on a Treo like it is on other things but it isn't useful.

As someone who:

1) Actually owns a Treo

and

2) Owns a Zaurus SL5500

I say that linux on the Treo is definately useful.

The Zaurus murders the Treo in terms of usefulness.

Unfortunately, it lacks a phone (for always on net access) and has a lousy battery life.

Linux on the Treo would give the best of both worlds.

In addition it would fix problems you obviously know nothing about, like Verizon locking out use as a bluetooth modem for your laptop.

Really, you obviously don't have a Treo, so what's the point of saying that this makes something you didn't think was useful enough to buy, not anymore useful?

Mod parent down

[xchino]

Just a page hit whore, link goes nowhere useful.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask here

[Rayban]

I'm the guy who was doing the porting work. If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here and save my poor blog's comment system.

It was a good thing I coralized all my images an hour ago!

BFD

[Anonymous Coward]

What's next? A toilet that'll boot Linux? Give me a break!

Re:BFD

[goofyspouse]

Heh-heh...flush the cache...heh-heh...

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Rayban]

For those wondering if it's real, I've been working closely with Shadowmite (the Treo Hacker extraordinaire) and you can track our progress on his forum or the not-as-up-to-date Handhelds.org Palm Treo 650 Wiki Page.

We've also started documenting a lot of the hacking stuff we've discovered on the Shadowmite wiki.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[strredwolf]

Looks like you got a bug there with the framebuffer being offset like that.

Any word on if you're going to bundle Opie or GPE on it?

Treo vs PPC

[dada21]

I love my HP h6315, PDA phone, GPRS, WiFi, Bluetooth. Great apps, great screen, great battery life.

Unfortunately HP & Tmobile discontinued it. I finally broke it (ripped out charging port) and can't find a replacement. The blackberry is a joke. Zero use for me, worst interface ever.

The treo feels nice but that OS sucks. With Linux, though, everything changes.

The only thing I need beyond that is 320x240 res, WiFi and Bluetooth. Any Treo users know if it's possible?

Re:Treo vs PPC

[elleomea]

The 650 has a 320x320 resolution and integrated Bluetooth support. Currently as far as I'm aware there's only an odd WiFi sled type device (hooks over the whole of the back of the Treo making it a fair bit thicker, but also supplying an extra battery).

Re:Treo vs PPC

[dada21]

Thanks. I'll pick one up today, doesn't hurt to be prepared.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[Rayban]

That's the Enfora WiFi sled. It's a nifty little device that works pretty well. The cool thing is that it uses PPP over the Treo's USB port, so it'll be supported under Linux with minimal work.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[WhiteDragon]

As you said, the treo 650 has built in bluetooth, and 320x320 resolution. I think I heard about somebody (probably shadowmite again) hacking in some sdio wifi drivers... *checks google* yes, here it is.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[speculatrix]

hacking in some sdio wifi drivers

the last I heard, SDIO wasn't an open specification and there were doubts as to whether it would be "legal" for SDIO to be implemented by a GPL'd project.

embwise have an SDIO stack but it's closed/proprietary

as a Zaurus user (all the latest models are wired for SDIO, but only support SD memory [and max. 1GB because Sharp's driver is crap]) sdio in linux is eagerly awaited.

Paul

Re:Treo vs PPC

[CaptnMArk]

Does anyone know about the h?4700 model?

Re:Treo vs PPC

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had bad experiences with *several* treo 650's crashing/etc.

Check out the HTC Wizard (aka Qtek 9100, i-mate K-Jam, etc). Cingular's supposed to be coming out with their version in January.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[bfree]

SD/SDIO on Linux was explained recently at linuxdvices.com.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[shahken]

Check out HP's website for their PDA phone..the hw6515 (says cingular, but its a quad band phone). I know they have more - I saw them in Singapore, but cant find them on their site right now.

Also, you may want to look at the O2 PDA phones...they are selling like hot cakes in other GSM markets, but are (obviously) not yet available in US.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[speculatrix]

yes, that was the article I had in mind when I said it's quite likely the treo driver's not fully "legal". Of course, it's possible that it's a palm driver from a T3 that's somehow been reverse engineered or hacked enough to run on the Treo.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[Jetson]

I love my HP h6315, PDA phone, GPRS, WiFi, Bluetooth. Great apps, great screen, great battery life. Unfortunately HP & Tmobile discontinued it.

Probably because HP released the i6325 to replace it. The i6325 is a nice piece of hardware, but Pocket Windows 2003 is just as flaky as Win95 ever was.

Re:Treo vs PPC

[WhiteDragon]

I've got a Zaurus too, but it's a 5500 and I don't know if it's wired for SDIO. I didn't know that the SDIO spec was proprietary though.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Rayban]

That was a bug in the LCD initialization. Actually, we weren't initializing the LCD at all - we let the phone's bootloader do that.

I managed to get that stuff working last night by setting the GPIOs correctly. The handhelds.org Linux kernel sets a GPIO (L_BIAS) that fubars the LCD. The latest version has the framebuffer working correctly (although I disabled the penguin for more screen real-estate ;)).

You can check out my blog at grack.com for updates.

Pity there are few completer-finishers

[Darius Jedburgh]

I'm sure this will be yet another one of those ports where someone proves it can be done but nobody actually finishes the job to the point where someone could actually use it for something, let alone actually supporting it.

Re:Pity there are few completer-finishers

[raisin]

Yet you've thankfully helped demonstrate that there are no lack of whiners!

How about contributing your completer-finisher skills to this project rather than complaining about it from a distance? That's this nutty "open source" thing, where people contribute their time and get things done...

Re:Pity there are few completer-finishers

[Darius Jedburgh]

If I were a completer-finisher myself I'd be delighted that my skills were in even higher demand. Alas, I'm not, and without an employer standing over me telling me what to do I'd start many more projects than I'd finish.

Linux Boots Stats

[igny]

The submission does not provide any stats on the aforementioned boots. I just assume these boots are unique and likely give some bonus to stamina, though I doubt they are for faster run/walk. I also expect can not be frozen bonus. Could anyone elaborate on other bonuses?

Re:Linux Boots Stats

[grimJester]

They go well with a tuxedo, but make you waddle a bit.

Who damn well cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm never quite sure whether these stories are a celebration of the fact that Linux actually boots on something or whether they should be treated with, well, so what? The damn thing boots on the boot sector that boots my toaster.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[bfree]

How much communication is happening amongst the various Palm PXA developers, for example I just noticed the hackndev.com link has arrived on your handhelds.org wiki page. Garux seems to have spawned a lot of interest and it seems the machines are generally quite similar, so could we prehaps see a "distro" released for PXA Palms?

The future is now!

[deathbyzen]

In the future, the proof of a person's technical skill will be based on their ability to boot linux on random objects. Those who are able to get a bash prompt on a toaster oven will be gods that walk among us, constantly harping on our choice of distribution.

Re:The future is now!

[nexxuz]

http://www.riverdale.k12.or.us/linux/toaster/ Here is your GOD!!!

Re:The future is now!

[maxx_730]

Yep. At the moment im listening to music on my iPod with iPodlinux, browsing slashdot with my pc running on linux and sending an sms with my linux phone :-) Gotta love being able to install linux on every random piece of hardware, don't ya?

Re:The future is now!

[blair1q]

Linux boots on a birthday cake!

http://chaotic.nexusvector.net/images/tux3.jpg

Re:The future is now!

[Anti_zeitgeist]

Just out of curiosity, what phone are you using and what service? I am in the market for a new phone and service. Right now the treo 650 seems like a good bet. I want a phone for voice and data....wireless would be nice and bluetooth is not necessary but ok. Anyone have any input??

wasn't palm moving toward the linux kernel?

[DarkClown]

seems like semi-recently that there were grumblings of the palm os moving over to a linux kernel in a future os release.
something like speculation about them partnering with montavista?

Re:wasn't palm moving toward the linux kernel?

[DrRiffic]

According to this, looks like its not a rumor.

Re:wasn't palm moving toward the linux kernel?

[adrianmonk]

seems like semi-recently that there were grumblings of the palm os moving over to a linux kernel in a future os release.

Yes. The current shipping version of Palm OS is 5.x. They wrote Palm OS 6.0 and 6.1 and based that on their own custom kernel, but thus far no real devices have shipped with it, although they did release a simulator for it to developers.

Right now, they are working on creating another new version of the operating system that's based on a Linux kernel instead. This is a smart move because a lot of work has gone into the Linux kernel and it is used a lot in embedded devices already and so has drivers and other support for embedded devices. They have been working on this new Palm OS with Linux kernel for at least a year, possibly more. I have no idea when it will come out, but it's more than a rumor, and it's not as if they've just started work either.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Rayban]

We've opened the communicatation channels to share information. There are two other Palm PXA ports already - the LifeDrive and PalmTE ports. We can share a *lot* between those projects, but there's still a fair bit of information to gather for each individual device (ie: the LifeDrive has Wifi/USB off-chip, etc.).

I hope that we can all help develop a single distribution that would work on all three devices. It would certainly help lower the porting load. Also, those guys seem to have gotten pretty far - The LifeDrive guy already booted GPE!

This is where open source really shines...

pssh

[commodoresloat]

This is cool and all, but for those who want to use unix on a treo now, check out pssh, which allows you to ssh into a functioning unix box from palmOS. It works quite well and, while it's not the same as having linux on the local file system, it allows you to use unix remotely without sacrificing the apps available on palmOS (e.g. the phone, the organizer, and everything else you probably bought the treo for in the first place). Not to put down this project -- I'm all for putting linux on anything and everything -- but this has a long way to go before you have a usable system.

Re:pssh

[Rayban]

w3m over pssh works very well indeed!

Yes, actually it will..

[StressGuy]

The best thing is that now you can update your bathrooms to a full "paperless" system. The whole thing works off the USB drive. It not only cleans, but re-formats as well.

{...at this point, men in white suits appear and start dragging StressGuy away..}

Wait! I've got a couple more!...Imagine a Beowulf cluster.....

{...men in white suits now give StressGuy a "sedative"...}

YAWN....

[xTantrum]

...device running linux. Why oh why does linux have to run on everything including the kitchen sink? i was actually much more interested in what he had to say about .NET wake me when you have minix running on the blackberry or the 700W.

Re:YAWN....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why oh why does linux have to run on everything including the kitchen sink?

Why do stupid questions get asked in every thread?

Linux is a good start to making the device more open and able to do things other then those narrowly defined by the manufacturer.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

screenshots

[halr9000]

Wow that thing is filthy when seen in macro mode. I think you need to dust your Treo, man.

Linux on Asus Mypal716 is almost user ready!

[mu22le]

A port of Familiar for the Asus Mypal716 is almost ready for prime time, just come and see!

Well Linux on Asus Mypal716 is almost user ready

[mu22le]

A port of Familiar for the Asus Mypal716 is almost ready for prime time, just come and see!

Killer App

[tinytim]

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious killer app here...

POSE

http://www.calliopeinc.com/palmprog2/tutorial/s1-p ose.htmltest

Emulate a palm, on your palm.

Re:Killer App

[ThogScully]

This would really make switching to Linux a whole lot easier - being able to keep the Treo working "as it is now" while improving the functionality significantly behind the scenes. Personally, I like a lot of the Palm interfaces and applications. As much as I prefer linux for about about everything else, I think I'd act with a less hesitation to make a permanent switch (or at least a time-consuming back and forth) if I could run a Palm emulator.
-N

Re:Killer App

[hacker]

Of course, you realize POSE does not support OS5 devices or the ARM processor. It will only emulate the OS4 and earlier devices, of which the Treo650 is not.

Re:Killer App

[bfree]

The company formerly known as PalmSource hopes there are many more like you out there. They intend their next OS to be a release of the Palm tools for a Linux core.

Re:Killer App

[jmorris42]

> It will only emulate the OS4 and earlier devices, of which the Treo650 is not.

Fine by me. I still use a Handspring and if I could have that environment on a newer bit of hardware that was running Linux I'd be tempted. You see, I think Palm OS was da bomb while it was small and simple. A PDA needs to be simple, it doesn't need to be a media player, web browser, etc. So having the old Palm OS would be a big plus for me. Let the Linux side do all those "PC" type tasks.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[gg3po]

I have a Treo 600. Is there any chance your work will be able to be ported to the 600, or will it be exclusively Treo 650?

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[AugstWest]

Would it be possible to boot Linux from the SD card, or must the phone be flashed?

This would be a lot easier

[commodoresloat]

if someone would just write a palmOS app that displays the penguin on your screen.

Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[doublem]

How on Earth did you get Linux to run on a platform designed for such a joke of an almost OS????

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[MrLizardo]

The same way that geeks got Linux booting on the Mac G3s designed for MacOS 8. Also, you may be interested to know that Palm switched from those horrible 16MHz Motorollas quite a while ago and now most (all?) PalmOS handhelds just have ARM (or ARM compatible) CPUs like everyone else.

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[doublem]

Whatever the hardware, the Palm OS is still a sad, unstable, pathetic joke.

Hell, my experiences with Palm were so bad, I went back to a pen and paper day planner, and haven't looked back!

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[Silverstrike]

Well, thats why Palm decided to release the next Treo with Windows Mobile.

yea yea, I know this is Slashdot and anything Windows is a hideous computing platform, but honestly, PalmOS is worse.

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[doublem]

I may be a Linux fan, but I kinda like WinCE.

And it IS better than Palm. Hell, Palm is so messed up, they never managed to port Nethack to it.

Nethack doesn't run on it. That's like hardware that can't run BSD.

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[AugstWest]

I really like the UI of Palm, it's a very elegant way to interact with a handheld. WinCE is just annoying as hell to me. I've used PalmOS since version 2 and I really like it. I tried WinCE (or whatever they're calling it now) a couple of times for a month or so at a stretch, and I just wanted to run the device over with my car. I'm not an anti-MS zealot or anything, I just think that they don't know how to build a handheld UI that can match the simplicity of Palm.

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[doublem]

I won't argue UI with you. My issue with the Palm is it's lack of stability. I've seen the bastards fail on a hotsync when the thing has had a hard reset and is syncing with a clean install of Windows with a clean install of the Palm desktop.

I had so many failed syncs that I took to keeping a few 3x5 index cards in the case with my Palm so I could jot down the changes I needed to make. I'd lost all faith in the Palm Pilot's ability to sync without losing data.

Whatever you think of the UI, the OS is unreliable and unstable. It's one of the few pieces of technology that I'm willing to fight tooth and nail to avoid. Working with that data scrambling OS is not worth the hike my blood pressure would get.

It's a crying same they never DID anything with the IP they got from buying BE.

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[Cyn]

I think that was why Sony included a MSBackup utility - the Clie's are actually very nice PDAs as long as you use the backup utility often.

Palm definitely had some stability issues for me - but only with stuff loaded in X-hack, never saw a crash at such an early stage.

I still use a T415 for reading ebooks - battery life of a champion, and much nicer on the eyes in the dark than a white backlight

Re:Cool, a Treo with a real OS!

[MrLizardo]

I could say something about versions of MacOS before X, and their complete lack of a little concept I like to call *protected memory* or that cool new *preemptive multitasking.* In cases where the OS doesn't take steps to protect itself, the system is only as stable as the most buggy application that one runs on it. This is true for DOS, MacOS and PalmOS.

Anyways, regardless of the "sad, unstable, pathetic joke" of an OS that came on it many pieces of hardware can be made to run Linux, including i386s and up, PowerPCs, and ARMs (including XScales).

New slogan

[giantsfan89]

Can you GNU/Hear me now? Good!

Re:New slogan

[LinuxHam]

Can you GNU/Hear me now? Good!

Shouldn't that be "More GNU/bars in more GNU/places"?

mmmmmm... baaaaarrrrrrs

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[gg3po]

Even if you get the phone part working (which it sounds like you're well on the way to doing), how will you make it work with each distinct service provider (Sprint, T-Mobile, or whoever else), and with the correct user account?

I've got a novel idea....

[Chris Bradshaw]

I've got a novel idea, how about using it as a phone...? I know I'm kinda out there, but hey - We have the technology, and a talented bunch of developers out there in the OSS community. So what the hell, let's give it a shot...

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[bfree]

I don't really know (but guess you do) how many "ports" there are, but it seems to me the LifeDrive, TE(2), Treo650, TT(2|3) and Z72 are all potential targets for the one code-base/distro, it seems the core Palm PXA hardware is all quite similar. Between them it's also quite a range of machines, it will be interesting to see what will/won't work (bluetooth, Z72 camera, LD wifi, Treo Phone) and what uses people will put them to ... to ask a question again, do you have a personal itch you are scratching with this (a way to use your treo) or are you simply doing this "because you can"?

Locking?

[Del Vach]

I've currently got a 650 from our good friends at Cingular, who love tormenting me with their commercials about what great coverage they provide, despite the 0 bars I get at home. I'm curious to know:

  - Will a 650 running Linux still be locked to the provider's network?
  - For us lightweights, will it be possible to revert back to PalmOS after installing this?
  - Might there be a possibility of dual booting between Palm & Linux?

Personally I'd love to finally get some use out of the 1GB card I bought for the thing, especially if I could basically use the presence of a card to select the OS it boots with.

Re:Locking?

[Rayban]

I'll answer these one-by-one:

    - Will a 650 running Linux still be locked to the provider's network?

Yes. The lock is enforced by the GSM radio, not PalmOS itself. If you have an unlock code, however, we can use it to unlock the radio for any sim card.

    - For us lightweights, will it be possible to revert back to PalmOS after installing this?

Yes. It doesn't replace PalmOS right now at all - it runs entirely in RAM. See answer below too.

    - Might there be a possibility of dual booting between Palm & Linux?

Yes. The plan is to replace System.bprc with one capable of booting Linux off the SD card when you hold down a certain key. This way you can just soft-reset into the other OS as you need.

Re:Locking?

[Anonymous Coward]

Besides the obvious effect of booting up linux, are there any advantages (like utilizing crippled hardware) that wouldn't be possible with the normal setup? (I am thinking about the Verizon phone).

~H2OJEFE

But I can't get Linux to boot on my PC!

[giant_toaster]

Not fair when I have spent all week trying to install Debian on my completely normal PC... Maybe I should by a Treo.....

Re:But I can't get Linux to boot on my PC!

[Anonymous Coward]

(try ubuntu)

Re:But I can't get Linux to boot on my PC!

[waferhead]

As the AC suggested, Ubuntu is pretty easy, although I suggest just booting a Knoppix CD/DVD as a first try to see if the hardwares all OK etc.
(Ubuntu will support more HW though and it will be better for a real system)

If you jactually want to install Knoppix do the following:

1:open console.(at VT is fine, hit ctl+alt+F2, skip to 3)
2:If you want to stay in X11, once the Konsole opens, type su
3:There is no password.
To install, type knx2hd and answer the (easy) few questions, as in where you want to install to etc.

Good Job Shadowmite!!

[stox]

This is quite a milestone, I can't wait to run Linux on my 650. Keep up the good work, and many thanks for the work you have done so far.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Rayban]

Most of that stuff gets handled by the radios. Both the GSM (Broadcom, I think) and CDMA (Qualcom) radios are full-fledged devices of their own with CPUs and firmware. The CDMA radio uses GSM AT commands, making a phone app just a thin wrapper over a serial port. It's like dialing a modem.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[smittyoneeach]

As a Treo600 user, with T-Mobile service, I greet this news warmly.
Except that T-Mobile's website doesn't offer the 600 anymore, much less the 650.
The thought of running Linux on a cel-phone and connecting reliably with my Gentoo laptop is quite nice.
Yet none of the providers seem to share my excitment.
Why? Is the infrastructure simply not there to support lots of people moving packets on cel phone networks?

Look! I got Linux to run on my Motorola V60 too!

[squison]

Here's the Proof!

It would rule if:

[jim_v2000]

Someone made a Linux distro for handhelds...in particular one that would run on an Palm OS capable device. Or even just devices that run Palm OS 5. I would totally run it on my Clie. A suite of handheld apps with it would be nice too.

Re:It would rule if:

[daddymac]

There are some handheld linux distros. Check out linuxdevices.com for an example of what people have been working on.

Re:It would rule if:

[Anonymous Coward]

Unforunately, Sony is extremely protective of their aging Clie line. I own a TJ-37, and Sony Japan refuses to release any information on it. Many developers have tried. Even when Sony America starts asking.

They left us out in the cold when Sony Japan started work on the PSP.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Rayban]

The plan is to boot from the SD card eventually. Right now we just load the kernel into RAM and boot from there. There's no risk to your data with this method.

Don't let it get out!

[hackwrench]

We don't want people to know that porting Linux is just that easy!

Re:Don't let it get out!

[andreyw]

See, if your technical skills extended beyond the daily running of cables for your IT department, you would realize that you're being a ass (and a dumb one at that) for somehow trying to assert that all they've done is drawn a penguin - did you notice the kernel messages, or busybox running, or what?

thEis FP for GNAA

[Anonymous Coward]

out how to make the 8y resignation has run faster person. Ask your Comprehensive is also a miserable Continues toChew I'm discuusing to them...then

Congrats...now what to do with it?

[BassKadet]

Lovely, you ported Linux onto a PDAphone. Why? Why not try to load Windows on there. At least then you could have it do something more useful than stroke the ego.

Re:Congrats...now what to do with it?

[lilmouse]

SSH! SSH! vi! emacs!

'nuff said.

Besides, I've always wanted a phone/pda/mp3(ogg) player that runs Linux :)

--LWM

Re:Congrats...now what to do with it?

[Doppler00]

I hate it when my only option to access code on a server is to SSH and be forced to use some antiquited version of vi, the keyboard mappings are broken half the time.

Now VNC on a PDA, that's cool.

Pointless, really.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it takes effort to make a port. And good job to the author. BUT

1) The Treo on PlamOS is dead. The new treos will be Windows whatever for phones.

2) Manufactors like Motorla have announced JUIX (Java and Linux) on new phones and claims this is going to be a supported platform beyond the E895 and A910 models.

So if ya wanna be excited, contact Motorola and ask them what the status of support for the E895/A910 at www.motocoder.com. Because Motorola seems to want to offer a 'Linux' phone and claims they will offer more phones like it.

So why get excited over a dead-end offering VS what appears to be a living, breathing and hopefully long lived line of phones?

Re:Pointless, really.

[AnimeFreak]

http://www.motorola.com/motoinfo/product/details/0 ,,46,00.html

Motorola already offers a Linux phone.

Linux boots on everything

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Linux would boot on a toaster if someone put their mind to it. This is probably the one saving grace of Linux is its ease of being embedded in just about anything with a micro-controller in it.

The problem is that while there is usually a huge drive to get something to boot linux, once it finally does there is less enthusiasm and patience into turning into a viable comercial product.

Its the hobby like nature of Linux which is also its Achillies Heel. A lot of enthusiasm can be generated pretty quickly, but also be deflated just as easily. Making something boot with Linux is far easier then making it stable and supporting it fully. For instance, take the idea of booting the iPod with Linux. It's a great idea, especially considering you can then support ANY file format on the cool iPod, but after about 2 years they still are not any closer to making it a usuable product. As each new generation of iPod comes out with new features, the idea of a linux distro for the iPod platform drifts further and further away as less people focus on trying to support new features with the iPod linux build.

So, in the end, getting Linux to boot a Treo isn't ground breaking or earth shattering. I doubt any real product will arise from this and offer an alternative to the retail OS that ships with it. Eventually they will find it difficult to support all the features of the Treo and more and more people will drift away from the project in favour of booting linux on the next gimmick or fad product that hits the market.

GPE ? what about opie ?

[C0vardeAn0nim0]

i have familiar with opie running on my ipaq 6500, and i'm too used to it to change to GPE. my question is, as soon as this is mature enough for "production" use, can i run opie instead ?

I applaud your fine work...

[PierceLabs]

And look forward to one day getting PalmOS off my Treo and putting a more capable and supported operating system in its place. Please be sure you get the bluetooth stuff working :)

love to see

[Anonymous Coward]

Would really love to see NetBSD, Linux with GPE/Opie on my Tungsten T3 :)

instruct.

Highly available, as in, go buy one at the store

[Anonymous Coward]

What can it offer? All the features Verizon or whoever locked out of it. Bluetooth DUN, OBEX, etc.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Seumas]

Um. Is it feasible that one could use all the features of their current Palm OS on their Treo with the new stuff (in time) under linux without going through any hoops with your carrier? I would imagine there must be some sort of "tag" in the Palm software that is required for service from your provider and seamless functionality.

Oh . . . . and with such a small device, usability and interface is very important. Somehow I don't expect much in that department with our (OSS/Linux) history.

so, where's the *nix for blackberry?

[option8]

i have in my hand a device with a large, bright color screen, usb, a QWERTY keyboard and a processor fast enough to run all kinds of java apps. why is there no linux or bsd for this device?

seriously, where is the *nix for blackberry devices? they've been out in various incarnations for a long time, and there's plenty of old ones lying around, just waiting for an open source OS to make them useful again.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[cheshire_cqx]

Although Shadowmite has since moved to the Windows-based PPC-6700.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[Provocateur]

How small is the liveCD?

Oh, wait...

With PalmOS on Phones an orphan, Linux is needed

[rhyre417]

[I'm an unsatistifed Treo 180 owner - mine cracked in half twice.] PalmOS is a dead platform as far as phones are concerned. The treo 700 uses Windows. At least Linux has a lifetime longer than what the manufacturer will support with their native OS.

slight correction

[Anonymous Coward]

Can GNU/hear me now?

Re:With PalmOS on Phones an orphan, Linux is neede

[adrianmonk]

PalmOS is a dead platform as far as phones are concerned. The treo 700 uses Windows.

All of us third-party apps developers who sell Palm OS software got a little annoyed when that happened. But, they did send out a special message to all registered developers saying they aren't abandoning Palm OS (although that could be a total lie), and more importantly, there are rumors floating around that there will be a cheap Palm OS based phone coming out next. Cheap, meaning that it's not $599 like the Treo 650 is (unless you sign up for new service). Which would be nice.

Are you serious?

[PCM2]

The problem is that while there is usually a huge drive to get something to boot linux, once it finally does there is less enthusiasm and patience into turning into a viable comercial product.

Ummmmmmm ... wouldn't that be Palm's job?

Its the hobby like nature of Linux which is also its Achillies Heel. A lot of enthusiasm can be generated pretty quickly, but also be deflated just as easily. Making something boot with Linux is far easier then making it stable and supporting it fully.

You're right! A bunch of hobbyists boot Linux on a random device as part of their hobby... and hey presto! They have instantly inveiled Linux's Achilles heel! They got Linux to boot on this device, so Linux is going nowhere! Oh man, we're all doomed now!

First Post!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Attention Slashdot administrators, please delete all previous comments on this topic.

That leads me to...

[RafaelGCPP]

... are Linux guys trying to beat NetBSD and run on the kitchen sink?

other Palms are more interesting

[penguin-collective]

The Treo 650 is fairly expensive for a Linux PDA because you pay a premium for the phone functionality, software, etc.

I think something like the Zire 22 or Tungsten E would be a more interesting model to run Linux on.

In any case, Palm will be releasing Linux-based Palms soon (or die trying).

Another pointless build of linx

[sniperwo1f]

Linux boots on another device but is useless but hey perhaps one day it will work fully, oh damn the we just got it working and the hardware is obsolete. Why do people bother making it boot on every device under the sun?

I would rather have....

[Anonymous Coward]

...a cluster with Troi and Dr. Crusher :)

So I have a question...

[CatOne]

When it's booted into Linux, can I actually use the phone? Say I want to dial someone, or a call comes in. Possible?

If that's 17 driver versions away, I'm thinking it may sorta defeat the purpose of running Linux on a phone.

Re:So I have a question...

[BlueLightning]

As previously mentioned, the phone is completely self-contained chip and is controlled by simple AT commands, so no special drivers should be needed - just a fairly simple front end application.

Treo on PalmOS dead?

[King_TJ]

What makes you so sure PalmOS is dead on the Treo line from here on out?
The fact that there's a new 700 running Windows doesn't necessarily mean they'll never do another PalmOS based phone. In fact, I heard a few comments from their marketing people that made it sound like they wanted to be VERY cautious about people assuming this was definitely the case. At least one article I read emphasized that the 700 was simply an experiment... an attempt to offer something different. They very well might opt to go back to PalmOS for a "Treo 800" or whatever it might be called, especially if sales of the new 700 aren't stellar.

Re:Treo on PalmOS dead?

[cheshire_cqx]

Ruhmors abound of a 700p ("p" for Palm) coming to Sprint. Also, this was in today's news:

[Roy] Bedlow also said that the company would push on with its plans to develop products based on Windows Mobile OS, as well as its own Palm OS. It would also work with Good Technology, RIM for its Blackberry client and with Microsoft's ActiveSync as it makes mobile email it priority.

http://www.mobileeurope.co.uk/news/news_story.ehtm l?o=1684

Re:Treo on PalmOS dead?

[Anonymous Coward]

What makes you so sure PalmOS is dead on the Treo line from here on out?

Because that is what I've read. I also don't hear of any phones pending in the FCC approval pipeline, nor do I hear of any other vendor saying 'they are committed to making model upgrades' based on PalmOS.

Palm/Treo can do whatever they want, but I'm more than happy to move to an Open Source'd OS based phone - If Motorola ships one.

What the fuck is wrong with this picture?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of cocksucker "hacks" his phone to run linux -- come on now...

Hell, think of all that time you could have spent educating yourself, making money, getting laid, etc., instead of making linux run on a cellular phone, haha.

Wow, you fuckers are really sick in the head.

Re:What the fuck is wrong with this picture?

[SheeEttin]

You must be new here.

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[cptgrudge]

I also greet this news warmly. (Why do I feel like I'm welcoming an overlord?)

I've got a Treo 650 on Verizon Wireless, and I implemented shadowmite's Bluetooth DUN hack on it. I don't do much gaming, and it kinda sucks for bittorrent, but I'll pull down between 300-400 MB of data some nights, and I usually connect at around 112kb. Plus, I can still get text messages and make phone calls. Not really fast, but it's certainly usable, and I pay for the unlimited data plan. Bundled with a voice plan on the Treo 650 it's 80 bucks a month.

My entire world funnels through my Treo. I'm not sure if I would be so brave as to try to install Linux on it, but it does appeal to me nonetheless. Hmm. I did pay for the extra insurance. I wonder if it covers death by Linux?

Re:If you have any questions, feel free to ask her

[aconkling]

Apparently, I'm no good at using Coral. How do you view the screenshots site in Coral's cache?

SSH clients and tunneling

[jpostel]

The two SSH clients I know of are pssh http://www.sealiesoftware.com/pssh/ and tussh http://www.tussh.com/. I use pssh, and it has saved my bacon on a couple of occasions.

The only way I know to do application tunneling is to use one of the commercial VPN products for PalmOS, MergicVPN http://www.mergic.com/ and AnthaVPN http://www.anthavpn.com/ (which used to be MovianVPN).

IANA developer, but from what I've read, the problems are with the fact that PalmOS was never really meant to be networked or multi-tasking. The old-new version of PalmOS, Cobalt, (which I don't think will ever be used on a treo) was supposed to have this solved with a ground up rebuild rumored to be based partially on BeOS. The new-new version of PalmOS will be some sort of PalmOS-on-Linux hybrid from PalmSource/Access.

I have been using a Palm/Handspring since the PalmIII. I have had each version of the Treo on Sprint (300,600,650) and I think the hardware has gotten better with each revision. The hardware can still be vastly improved, but the OS needs an overhaul and Windows on a Treo is 'the shot heard round the Palm world'. If that does not kick the PalmOS developers in the pants, then I don't know what will. Competition is a good thing and Palm has been resting on its laurels a bit too long.

Re:SSH clients and tunneling

[Anonymous Coward]

The old-new version of PalmOS, Cobalt, (which I don't think will ever be used on a treo) was supposed to have this solved with a ground up rebuild rumored to be based partially on BeOS. The new-new version of PalmOS will be some sort of PalmOS-on-Linux hybrid from PalmSource/Access.

Back to the original topic... the interesting question is, could we be able to run the new new Linux-hosted version of Palm OS 6 on a Treo 650, if we install this Linux layer? It would be an interesting way to get a Palm OS upgrade!

The kitchen sink is very nice, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

Does NetBSD run on a dead badger?

Talking of Linux on toasters...

[forrestm]

There is this guy hacking his ADSL modem. He played a game of backgammon on it and could watch the console output as Linux booted up: http://www.linux.net.nz/pipermail/aucklug/2005-Nov ember/000567.html (came across this when I was trying to set up my D-Link 302g ADSL modem with a usb connection) Cheers

Nokia 770 + VoIP?

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe the nokia 770 from http://nokia.com/770 be good for you, huge screen (800x480), wifi etc. No phone features but you can use VoIP for that.

Maybe it might be better to wait for the next generation as Intel are about to release a new version of their XScale clocked at 1Ghz that still only uses less than 1 walt. With that type of power you could do almost anything. I wonder if they will use them to make some type of wireless mesh network...

Really useful

[halleluja]

Exactly. Dead and old products are unsupported. But I do not want to buy a new product just because the old has reached end-of-life on paper.

I've lots of old hardware supported by Linux which have "officially" reached end-of-life. They are currently performing better than ever.

Poor Treo

[kirk26]

Already having a sucky OS being to reduced to having a suckier OS-Linsux. R.I.P.

new question

[petantik f00l]

It is obvious that getting linux to run on consumer devices is the new fad among developers. So i find that the first thing I ask is "Does it run linux?" to this I hear cries of "of course it does ... linux runs on everything" or "no it doesn't ... it must be rubbish" or dark mutterings of "I'll make it run linux if it is the last thing I do".

However, my second question is left field "Does it make toast?" to which all and sundry look at me funny as if i've sprouted a second head or speaking a foreign language - they tend to ignore me or find something really important to do for which they must leave my presence. So I propose to make this the standard question when a new device is coming out since everyone has an answer ready for the linux question

And a real Linux phone by default ...

[egghat]

is the Motorola A780. Avaliable in Europe (while most of the other Linux phones are available only in Asia). There's a community evolving, that's trying to port a completly open source kernel to the A780. Check it out under open-ezx. Another good site to get infos and hacks for the Moto Linux phones (E680(i), A780, etc.) is Motorolafans.com. Especially the forums are worth a visit. Despite these phones being based on Linux, Motorola doesn't support application development for Linux; their documentation (and support) focusses on Java only. So close, but yet so far ... But hey, telnetting into your phone has some geek appeal ...

Bye egghat.

You misunderstand me.

[hackwrench]

I'm merely poking fun at the article for saying that they've drawn a penguin, using hype words like "a major leap forward", but leaving the reader to guess at what the real work that has been done might be.