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Spammer Sued Under EU Law
IngramJames writes "A British businessman has successfully sued a company who sent him a spam email. The case was settled out of court, so is not binding, but it's promising that the spammers had to cough up £300 for a single email! It's being reported (in a much more readable way) on The Register and the BBC." From the BBC article: "Three years ago the EU passed an anti-spam law, the directive on privacy and telecommunications, which gave individuals the right to fight the growing tide of unwanted e-mail by allowing them to claim damages."
Can't wait to be able to sue spammers from here in Pittsburgh. There isn't much we can do, other than track spam, and ask them to stop. Lots of spam that I see comes from Russia, or China, and there isn't much that can be done about it. THe biggest majority of those I get are zipfile attachments with some bogus message -- viruses or whatnot. I'd like a procmail script that turns each spam message into a unique lawsuit -- any takers?
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
This is the kind of thing I like to see. It's time we start holding some of these companies who use spam, spyware, adware, etc. responsible. I hope Texas' suit against Sony is successful, too.
How much will it cost you in:
:(
Court fees?
Lost wages from taking days off of work to go to court?
Lawyer's fees? (Well, you can save on that by getting a season of Law and Order on DVD, I guess...)
Great in principle, but I fear the day is theirs
If you'd RTFA, you'd see that this was an out of court settlement. The guy didn't win in court, he settled.
--You will rephrase your request for me to go to hell. Goto statements are not acceptable programming constructs
£300 worth of all-natural herbal Viagra?
One of the lessons of history is that nothing is often a good thing to do and always a clever thing to say. - Will Duran
From the Register Article: ...
Roberts, who runs his own Internet business as well as the Jersey and Guernsey country code domains, used his legal know-how to apply EU legislation to a UK company, Media Logistics.
It is believed to be the first time the legislation has been used in the UK, and could open the doors for thousands of other cases.
Back in August, Roberts received several marketing emails from Media Logistics. They were just a few of the many thousands that he and every Internet user receive each year, except that Mr Roberts tracked the email back to the company using its IP address.
Recognising that as a UK company it came under the EU law, he sent a letter demanding an apology, damages and the name of the company that had given Media Logistics his email address. The company apologised but refused his two other requests.
Unfortunately for the company, Roberts, 37, is a recognised internet expert and was studying for a law degree, which he has just been awarded...
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_
I have not seen any change in the level of spam...except maybe that it has increased. With all the laws, lawsuits, etc I still get 1000 spams a day. Spam protection works, but is not perfect. I have gotten to the point where I have hidden email accounts that are receive only if I know you status. Joel
What's more, it works. I was involved in a case in which a company sued a friend claiming payment for work they had not, in fact, done. Although we screwed up mildly on the paperwork the judge in the case decided that did not matter and gave judgement in our favor. The other side walked out feeling very upset, but realised the cost of going to a higher court to try again would be much greater than the amount claimed. So they gave up.
Pining for the fjords
You can only sue in the small claim court for actual damages suffered. They generally hold that wasting your time is not claimable as damages - actions such as this will only succeed if you can show that you have lost time in the course of a buisness and then suffered a financial cost. Also you generally cannot set a precedent in the small claims court, even if you do win. For those interested further the website for the court is www.moneyclaim.gov.uk
How will the male enhancement industry survive now? I dont think that anyone actually wants those stupid emails in their mailbox, so they will have to try another marketing scheme.
Too bad, so sad.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
...for companies that buy Databases for their mass email campaigns. The only companies that I know of that do this have low success rates, and a very irate Database.
Court fees?
30 pounds, paid by spammer
Lost wages from taking days off of work to go to court?
Owns is own business
Lawyer's fees?
He didn't hire one
I'm more curious as to how you quantify "damages" caused by spamming. Three hundred pounds may be logical limit - small claims - but what's keeping someone from suing for more?
The question must be asked:
Did the amount of time and energy spent on this case roughly equate with the settlement?
I am all for suing spammers, but let's make it real money, say £300,000.00?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
in the case of this for the parent company to be liable for the sub company's lack of following the law they would have to show negligence.. such as the Direct TV case with the do not call list.
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
The EU sues everyone. I'll be impressed when someone in China gets their ass sued for spamming.
Are you kidding? It would be great.
We, the hackers, the spam recipients capable reading headers and of using whois and traceroute and so forth to track down senders of emails, collect money. They, the mainstream companies who've been conned by spammers into paying for their dubious services, realise what a bad idea it is and make sure to advertise by legitimate means in future.
The only way to stop a corporation doing something is to make it cost them money, after all.
Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
Need more info for this exciting new European business opportunity :-
1) Receive spam
2) Sue the bastards.
3) Profit!!
With 2 years spam saved in my inbox (on another machine because eventually THAT became unmanagable) Im looking forward to this guys "spam kit". However Im wondering if Im only limited to sueing spamming companies...can I sue the services that have an open proxy, the ISPs that allow their customers to have an open proxy? Can I sue yahoo/hotmail for allowing their services to be used for spam. Oh the possibilities.....
Spam, Spam, Spam, Bacon and Eggs and Spam. I suppose the Brits have gotten over there infatuation with it.
"I realize that it's not quite that simple"
It can be quite that simple. In Germany, a lawyer is known for threatening citizens with legal action for breaking trademark law on behalf of companies that are not aware or supportive, unless these citizens cough up. And in the USA, 30% of all DMCA take-down notices are estimated to be improper and possibly illegal.
The initiators of these actions (or extortions, if you like) get away with it because the cost of paying up outweighs the risk of losing. And the reason for that is because in these cases the governments involved are sympathetic to parties that claim to be victims, but are not really.
Whatever else happens, I'm generating publicity for the company, they may end up doing very well out this spam on their behalf.
If I tried to make the spam unappealing to negate the above effect, it'd be more obvious that it was a bogus campaign done without their knowledge.
Of course, the intelligent ones out there reading this will be sure to think of clever ideas that look like they would be good promotion for the company but would end up doing more harm than good - so it looks like a failed campaign rather than anything malicious - but would YOU risk it?
Because of this, this whole problem doesn't really exist.
Jolyon
Please read my Canon EOS tech blog at http://www.everyothershot.com
It seems that more and more spammers are using frivolous lawsuits against RBL maintainers. The AHBL The ABHL is one such recent victim of a lawsuit, in fact after two years of threats by the alledged spammer. In this case the litigant is acting pro se and is seeking outrageous damages (over 3 million). I have personally banned his ass at the ISP I work for --several times in fact when he moved his operations after being TOS'd.
More information at the Abusive Hosts Blocking Lists' legal defense page.
It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
They actually served the company once for each e-mail sent - they spent hours cleaning out their inbox!
When somebody prefixes a remark with "I think..." implying they are not sure, and suggests that the amount is claim-dependent, prefixing your reply with "Wrong" is bad manners.
I'm making this point because we've been recruiting this year, and one of the questions I always get asked about candidates is "are they safe to talk to clients?"
I am assuming you are in England because you use the vernacular ("£50 quid"), but not a native speaker or you would know the £ sign is redundant (£50 or 50 quid but NOT £50 quid) so you should be aware that phraseology like yours is unlikely to endear you to senior management. In the early phases of my own career I came over like that...then I decided that what goes for your peer group is no good if you want promotion. Just a suggestion.
Pining for the fjords
The article is self-contradictory as to whether the case was settled in or out of court.
It both says that the judge ruled in his favour (as the defendant did not defend himself) AND it it says the claim was settled out of court.
I assume the former is correct (which in all likelihood it is, as the spammers probably did not go to court or otherwise try to defend the action against them).
At this point, the claim would be beyond sewttling out of court.
I could understand if the guy had clicked the "unsubscribe" link in a previous email from the company, kind of like sexual harrassment law where you have to say "stop" first.
I never asked for it, don't have a prior relationship with them, so they have no reason to mail me, not to mention that in the EU due to its privacy laws, its not unlikely that their collecting and storing of personal information on me (name, email address) is illegal in itself without my prior permission. And really, go try to 'fondle' a random woman on the street and see how that works out.. or rather, just take my word for it, that is quite punishable. (and yeah, a somewhat extreme form of sexual harassment, better called assault, but the line between those 2 is prett thin and depends at least in part on what prior relationship you'd have with that woman.. oh, and those who happen to have a different sexual preference should ofcourse read man instead of woman where appropriate)
And then if he wanted to sue, he could present the first email, the second email, and a screenshot of the browser at the "removed from list" page. If one email is all it takes to sue someone, what's to stop my father-in-law from suing me when I ask him to join the latest pyramid scheme?
I believe he should be able to sue you for believing in stupid schemes, but thats not the law. You'd in that case be protected by having a prior relationship probably. In this case your idea would apply, going on when asked to stop may be an offense.
Then you're a blithering idiot. One costs them money, the other costs them nothing. One they'll target, the other they'll just send to anywhere.
And imho this is another stupid law the EU passed before thinking about it
Actually, it's a very well thought out one. We also have others here such as a the Telephone Preference Service where you can register that you don't want sales calls and if a company subsequently cold calls, you can report them and have them fined.
Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
I'll assume you're not British and not familiar with Small Claims Courts. The company was found guilty. There was to be a later hearing to determine the amount of compensation awarded. The company offered a figure before the later hearing and the claimant accepted it.
Also at Small Claims Court in the UK, if one of the parties doesn't turn up to the hearing, judgement is automatically awarded against them whether they're the claimant or the defendent. Which is bloody brilliant because it means that if a company in the South East of England screws me, I can take them to a local Small Claims Court, which is over 300 miles away from them, and if they don't turn up, I've won. If they don;t pay, I can then go back for a warrant, have bailiffs seize their property (at a cost of £100+ per time) and auction it, returning time and time again until not only is the judgement satisfied but the bailiffs fees too.
Conor "You're not married,you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart
Its funny because internet brings new possibilities togather with a new threats like spam, content theft etc. Its fine if the law can fight against spam effectively, but ussually it can not(http://www.e-verdict.com/justice-system). The spammer can sit and perform its dirty job from some undeveloped country where no any civilized law will reach him. The same works with content theft. If the server is in some country which is free of normal laws, the thiefs will flourish... How can we fight this new technology issues efficiently and effectively? One think we can do for sure is to list all these people and organizations which are untrustable. Then the other people will know who they are dealing with.
www.e-verdict.com -> People's opinions and judgments
source
Health Insurance Quotes
Not a nasty company. An individual author. Too bad he's in Canada and I'm here in lowly US, I could use some extra money.
I replied back to the email address I found on his website so I could warn him that somebody was sending out spam emails about his book, and he said that he sent it to me because my email address was on the internet. Stupid internet, always telling everybody about me.
If you want to see the email chain, it is here
"Telephone Preference Service where you can register that you don't want sales calls and if a company subsequently cold calls, you can report them and have them fined."
:-) I tell him to F* off and hang up (after two more attempts he gets the idea that I DO NOT want to talk to him.
Bwhaahaaa!
One case where this does NOT work. I get calls from OneTel asking if I my S.O would like to move to OneTel. I explain that the phone lines are in my name and we already use VOIP (asterisk) to manage call costs. As Paul is getting his calls for free, why would want to sign up?
After the fourth call in a hour (asking to speak to Paul) I start hanging up at the word OneTel - ( I am teleworking). Now I get an Irate line manager asking why I am being abusive to his staff.
Yes, I was on the TPS at the time, but it appears that if scum like onetel can trick other people into giving your name, they look up your number and call you (over and over and over).
I called the TPS and they said that they could do nothing about it as it was not legally a "cold call".
IMHO The TPS is a joke.
Worked really well for me. Gone from at least 9 calls an evening down to none with about 1 junk call per month. It was probably that bad for us as we had a London area code (0208).
If one email is all it takes to sue someone, what's to stop my father-in-law from suing me when I ask him to join the latest pyramid scheme?
How could you prove that it's the same spammer from whose list you "unsubscribed"? The spammer had no right to collect the addresses and send mails to them. This case was in the EU, not in the US where a ridiculous law allows all the many thousands of companies to send you spam until you "unsubscribe" from something you never subscribed to and thereby let the spammers know that the address is active.
Your father in law stands in a certain relation to you, a spammer doesn't. There may be a theoretical problem of some borderline cases of spamming, but in practice, about most spam, there is no doubt.