Slashdot Mirror


RFID Production to Increase 25 fold by 2010

Luke PiWalker writes "The number of RFID tags produced worldwide is expected to increase more than 25 fold between 2005 and 2010, reaching 33 billion, according to market research company In-Stat. Total production of RFID tags in 2005 reached more than 1.3 billion, according to a recent report. RFID production will vary widely by industry segment for several years -- for example, RFID has been used in automotive keys since 1991, with 150 million units now in use, a quantity that greatly exceeded other segments until recently, according to In-Stat. "By far the biggest RFID segment in coming years will be supply chain management," said Allen Nogee, In-Stat analyst, in a statement. "This segment will account for the largest number of tags/labels from 2005 through 2010." RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?"

179 comments

  1. Thank God... by BHennessy · · Score: 5, Funny

    that I got in early and made my duct-tape / tinfoil wallet already.

    1. Re:Thank God... by subterfuge · · Score: 3, Funny

      but they can still track you by the tag they hid on the outside surface of the tape...

    2. Re:Thank God... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take your religion somewhere else pal.

    3. Re:Thank God... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay, maybe I'm stupid, or insufficiently paranoid, so someone correct me if I'm wrong.

      The way I understand it, RFID basically amounts to a radio-frequency barcode, that can be read from a distance of a few feet. It really sounds more convenient than Orwellian to me, yet the tinfoil hat brigade comes rushing in every time a /. story mentions it. What am I missing? What's so evil about it?

    4. Re:Thank God... by Profane+MuthaFucka · · Score: 1

      What is so evil about it is that RFID can be used in places that it shouldn't be used. Examples:

      Inside passports. Convenient for both the customs agent who examines the passport, and for the criminal who wants to find out who you are across the room.

      In your clothing. Shoes perhaps. With the proper reading of footwear inventory RFID tags, I can get a pretty good idea of who's walking by my house every day. I can correlate faces to the shoes my RFID scanner reads. I can learn their habits. I can learn what else they buy, by reading those RFID tags. I can sell this information to marketers, or to the police.

      etc. you get the point. It removes the possibility of being anonymous in public. Ask Jennifer Anniston how fun that is. OK, bad example, because she's rich and beautiful. Ask OJ Simpson.

      --
      Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
    5. Re:Thank God... by oKtosiTe · · Score: 1

      "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."

    6. Re:Thank God... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      There is security in numbers- just think of the information overflow in trying to find records for a single tag in logs of billions of tags passing a given point!

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    7. Re:Thank God... by halltk1983 · · Score: 1

      Postrges... or and database really. Hell, just grep for $name

      --
      Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
    8. Re:Thank God... by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      But there's no automatic resolution table between $name and RFID tags used for inventory control. Who is entering this information? Postgres and other databases can't read minds- if somebody buys something for cash containing an RFID tag, you can track that item- but you don't know who the person is.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  2. RFID and the Average Person by kjh1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't help thinking that the average person is still pretty clueless about RFID tags and will still be even when there are 25x as many! Will understanding of RFID tags be similar to that of browser cookies? Will the security implications be blown out of proportion in a similar way? Don't get me wrong, I'm all about computer security, but cookies hardly scare me, and so far, RFID tags don't scare me too much. The counter solution should be pretty simple - get an RFID scanner so you know if there are any 'hidden' ones about.

    1. Re:RFID and the Average Person by DrEldarion · · Score: 4, Funny

      But dude! People will be able to tell that you just shopped at The Gap by JUST BEING NEAR YOUR BAG. And if people know that, just WHERE will all your geek-cred go?

      Right out the window, that's where.

      And don't even get me started on all the poor unskilled walmart cashiers that will lose their jobs because a shopping cart will be able to be read accurately and automatically. They might actually have to learn to do something useful with their lives, and damn it, this is America, and they shouldn't have to do that!

    2. Re:RFID and the Average Person by AndroidCat · · Score: 1

      An RFID scanner won't always tell you if there are tags. A smart tag could wait for a particular key in the scan signal before responding at all. I don't know if anyone makes one that does that, but I don't see any reason why not.

      --
      One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
    3. Re:RFID and the Average Person by ls+-la · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Get your RFID scanners before the government decides you shouldn't know where they are or what data they contain unless you're a multinational corporation. You know the way Bush has been handling national security they'll be illegal before long (like as soon as RFID appears in passports, beginning of 2007 IIRC). Especially if scanners/readers get popular.

    4. Re:RFID and the Average Person by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have one of the most highly polished Tin-Foil-Hats around, but I am not terribly worried about RFID, not the commercially advertised incarnations anyway.

      I work as the IT manager for the largest RFID company in the world. We are *the* supplier of RFID tags and devices to the DoD. With the tags and devices available from my company and others; Matrics, Alien etc.. you needent worry. These tags are too expensive, or also too big and too weak to be of concern to people. (Expensive being the primary gating item to ubiquity)

      However - i would remind people that a cell phone is far more an unknown and exploitable device than the current commercially advertised and known RFID tags.

      RFID is a phenomenon that has been known about for a long time. (as are cell phones which were first proofed in the 40s) and falls into two categories; Active or Passive. Active tags have a battery which powers the antennae - passive tags merely respond to RF waves that pass through them and "reply" with a unique signature.

      Passive tags hold very little data, usually just an ID - or serial number (around 1K-ish - historically). Active tags have memory (256/512K ish) and can hold real data, such as the manifest of a shipping container.

      The data still needs to be read and dealt with in a meaningful way. Passive IDs need to be correlated to a backend DB which equates the ID with some meaningful data, such as a record of what that ID actually represents.

      Active tags are a bit more flexible in that they can provide info which does not necessarily require access to a backed DB in order to understand what the tag is identifying, or what that container holds.

      My company only produces Active tags. These tags are large, expensive and meant for tracking THINGS. Containers specifically - or large cost items, such as a vehicle(parts). Our tags are used on shipping containers and trucks, and pose no threat to personal privacy, unless you dont want people (yourself) to know what you placed inside some container which is being shipped from one port to the next.

      Active tags, backed by batteries, arent just capable of greater range, they are capable of TELLING the reader system about events that occur. For example - we have some tags which have sensors on them. Light, temp. humidity, shock etc. These sensors can be set to alert if they go off or above threshold. This is important when you are concerned about the viability/integrity of the property the tag is "watching". Some medications spoil if exposed to certain temperatures for extended periods of time. The sensor tag can monitor temp then alert if it gets too high for too long. Some munitions automatically ARM themselves if they receive a certain amount of shock. so the tags would warn if a munition is armed, important to know if your going to be moving a box of explosives via crane or forklift.

      Active tags cost between 60 and 85 dollars per tag. Are roughly 4" long and 1" high and 1.5" wide. Active tags run at 433 megahertz and 123 kilohertz (the two frequencies are used for two different functions: reading data from the tag (433) or sending commands to the tag (123)).

      There are some new active tags which are smaller, and run on 802.11 (wifi) frequencies, but there are a great number of challenges in that freq. range.

      Passive tags are a losing proposition for most companies as the manufacturing cost is greater than what the tag can be sold for. Before tags can be ubiquitous in products - they need to be throw-away cheap. some person I dont know said that the magic number for passive tags was .05 (a nickel) - but one thing that hasnt been talked about with regards to the mass use of RFID is the backend databases and logic application required to actually do anything with the data read from tags. This obviously implies the reader infrastructure as well.

      There is a lot of supporting infrastructure required to do anything of interest with RFID - its not just that you deploy a bunch of tags and all of a sudden you c

    5. Re:RFID and the Average Person by core+plexus · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Excellent and informative post. "These tags are too expensive, or also too big and too weak to be of concern to people."

      Today, perhaps. But tomorrow? :"An unusual pool of scientific talent at the U.S. Department of Energy's Argonne National Laboratory, combined with new nanofabrication and nanocharacterization instruments, is helping to open a new frontier in electronics, to be made up of very small and very fast devices." and ""When the first computer hard disk was introduced 50 years ago, it required a rather large size to store each bit of digital information. On today's computer disks, the corresponding size is about one-50-millionth of that needed in the original disks. We are now moving well into the nanoscale range, and nanomagnetism is one of the real drivers of the nanotechnology field.""

      Will it take 50 years to make RFID tags ubiquitous? Probably not.

    6. Re:RFID and the Average Person by Tommac2005 · · Score: 1

      Please mod parent up. Fantastic, informative and well thought out post.

      --
      www.jiggedyjoo.com
    7. Re:RFID and the Average Person by houghi · · Score: 1

      you needent worry. These tags are too expensive, or also too big and too weak to be of concern to people.

      Well that is a relive as proces will stay the same as does the size with technical things. As there is no problem now, there won't be one in the future. WOW.

      Passive tags hold very little data, usually just an ID - or serial number (around 1K-ish - historically).
      1k is roughly 1000 caracters. I bet it is possible to give a unique ID to each one and link the ID to a database that holds much, much more infor and links one ID to another.

      Instead of making me less woried, you made me more woried.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    8. Re:RFID and the Average Person by conteXXt · · Score: 1

      I wonder if organized crime (read truck highjackers) will be happy to use this technology.

      No more trucks full of toilet paper or other low dollar things will be jacked.

      Surely they'll now focus on easily fenced, high value shipments.

      Some form of encryption will likely be used in the case of manifests I would imagine.

      Of course that isn't really my concern, just thinking the obvious.

      --
      The truth about Led Zep should never be told on /. (Karma suicide ensues)
    9. Re:RFID and the Average Person by RicktheBrick · · Score: 1

      If every bottle of alcohol and every package of cigarettes has a rfid tag on it than for starts when they are sold the store than could prove that they were sold. When they are stolen and than found on a person who should not have had access to them then the store that had possession of them should be fined as they have not put enough effort into preventing them from being stolen. I would even go further and require a machine readable id to purchase the products and than if the products get into a minor's hands I would than go after the person who purchased the product. The cost of misuse of these products make the cost of even $.25 per tag look very small in comparison.

    10. Re:RFID and the Average Person by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Logical fallacy: non-sequitor

      A kid having some beer sold from my store does not prove that I sold it to him. My lack of a defense in no way implies guilty.

    11. Re:RFID and the Average Person by blueskies · · Score: 1

      Try 64 byte to 128 byte tags (1kb).

    12. Re:RFID and the Average Person by Eli+Gottlieb · · Score: 1

      Workmaking and work destruction are both greed, simply of different parties.

    13. Re:RFID and the Average Person by Jaknet · · Score: 1

      Very interesting post

      Just one point regards " Passive tags hold very little data, usually just an ID - or serial number (around 1K-ish - historically)"

      Am I missing something here with very little data 1K.. I am old enough to remember when you could fit an entire working chess game into 1K.... early sinclair computers. So I cannot believe the very little data

    14. Re:RFID and the Average Person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gee, I think my comment got lost.
      I was saying that 433 MHz is in the Amateur 70cm band and I could go hunting for RFID tags with my dual-band handheld (which has 70cm).

      with a suitable equipment I could demodulate the signals (which are probably FM anyway).
      Certainly I could learn to recognize the signals on my HT.
      Dave(VE7HP)

    15. Re:RFID and the Average Person by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I did some research and found that in Canada, the frequencies are 915MHz and 869 MHz, 915 MHz is in the middle of the (heavily shared) 902-928 MHz band.
      There are some at 2450 MHz also. There is an amateur band at 2300 - 2450 MHz.

      Maybe amateur RFID would be do-able ;-)
      Dave (VE7HP)

    16. Re:RFID and the Average Person by _ph1ux_ · · Score: 1

      Its a realtive statement I guess. There are tags from some of the smaller manufacturers that are trying to place more data in the tag - but according to some of our engineers you ahve to keep the data sizes small due to the speed and power to read them.

      If you are taking hundreds of reads minute, then pulling 256K can prove to be a difficult matter, how many tags can you hear from a reader at one time? Lots.

      Also, there is a problem with encryption and security. Most tags are not encrypted - nor are they locked to any reader - you ping it - it will respond. Some challenges are around getting the tags to only listen to *your* infrastructure.

      Ill go talk to one of our lead engineers and get more specifics on this.

    17. Re:RFID and the Average Person by anogee · · Score: 1

      But dude, you probably already have an RFID tag in your pocket now, at least if you own a recent car. It makes sure the person starting the car is you and not the bad guys. Have the Russians been following you around because of it? If someone wanted to track you, there would be better ways.

  3. Nearly oxymoronic there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful
    By far the biggest RFID segment in coming years will be supply chain management," said Allen Nogee, In-Stat analyst, in a statement. "This segment will account for the largest number of tags/labels from 2005 through 2010." RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?"


    The first half of this quote concerns pallets in a warehouse, something with no conceivable privacy implications of any kind. The second half of this quite asks how anyone could approve of this given its "obvious privacy flaws".

    Uhhhhhhh... right.

    So let's say I buy a pair of shoes with an RFID tag in them and I don't like this. Never mind I haven't heard of a single shoe manufacturer proposing to do this, let's just say it happens. All I should have to do is run the shoes through the microwave and the RFID tag should fry, right?
    1. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by BHennessy · · Score: 1

      "All I should have to do is run the shoes through the microwave and the RFID tag should fry, right?" Finding a microwave big enough could be a problem, but I'd suggest that you run really really fast.

    2. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by penguin_strut · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ugh. Remind me never to eat anything out of your microwave. MIT's already shown us some of the clandestine cell-phone tracking options available. With all the cameras, phones, retinal scanners, ID cards and genetic fingerprinting available in the coming years, why would they need RFID tags? Hell, windows are a privacy risk. Just don't go outside, speak loudly, or use anything made later than Atari and you should be fine.

    3. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by zjbs14 · · Score: 1

      Not really necessary since any tags used for supply chain purposes are going to be on the box, not in the product. And it's pretty unlikely that they'd be on the box you'd take home. They would probably be on the pallet or carton that gets shipped to the store.

      --
      No sig, sorry.
    4. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by FredThompson · · Score: 0

      Yup, this is a bunch of FUD, poorly constructed FUD at that.

      It's real simple. Chinese labor is about $70/week.

      That's about all you need to know. RFID allows automation, fewer people, tighter control and fewer processing steps.

      The options are automation, including lots of remote sensing/identifying technologies like RFID or total economic collapse.

      I, for one, don't care to be a dirt farmer. RFID is about the same "privacy concern" as a phone book.

    5. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My feet aren't that big...

      I'd suggest that you run really really fast.

      Because I'm microwaving metal, I assume? It isn't much metal though. This isn't like aluminum foil quantities or something, it's just a little bit. Would it really be that dangerous?

      Hmm... looks like somebody's actually run this experiment already... that's not enough to damage the microwave, but it probably wouldn't be good for the shoes.

      Well, surely there's some simple way to fry an RFID without actually exploding the chip. Aren't RFID's basically run by a single capacitor powered by the radio waves that represent the "identify yourself" signal? It seems like you ought to be able to build something with just radio shack parts that would put out a "identify yourself" signal strong enough to overload the capacitor and kill the RFID chip. Right? That wouldn't require "causes cancer" levels of radiation or anything would it?

    6. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by AK__64 · · Score: 1

      Excellent point. Unless the feds require RFID in the Nat'l ID due out next year, and states/banks start issuing more licenses or bank cards with embedded RFID tags, RFID is simply not going to be that great of a privacy issue. I'd like to see sales of RFID scanners restricted to retailers/what have you that actually *need* them, and perhaps a different RFID standard or format for secure gov't applications that can't be read by the RFID scanners at my local bookstore. This would add a layer of security beyond encryption and the practically geeks-only tin-foil solution... But in the end the sheer number of RFID tags being made is not cause for fear and trepidation.

    7. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by abdulwahid · · Score: 1

      The first half of this quote concerns pallets in a warehouse, something with no conceivable privacy implications of any kind. The second half of this quite asks how anyone could approve of this given its "obvious privacy flaws".

      Uhhhhhhh... right.

      I agree with your point. The biggest use of RFID for supply chain management is not going to have any privacy concerns for the general population. The company I am working for are using planning to use it to track the 1 million sacks of produce we manufacturer each year. We have something like 25 distribution points around the country and it would be very useful to be able to track every single sack and know exactly where it came from and which factury batch just by a using a scanner. At the moment it is very hard to track every single sack and its whole history. This will not affect consumers though as they are not buying our product by the sack load.

      --
      perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
    8. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Travoltus · · Score: 1

      "The options are automation, including lots of remote sensing/identifying technologies like RFID or total economic collapse."

      I call BS on that. Let's see proof. How does lack of automation mean total economic collapse?

      --
      --- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!
    9. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by jmv · · Score: 2, Funny

      So let's say I buy a pair of shoes with an RFID tag in them and I don't like this. Never mind I haven't heard of a single shoe manufacturer proposing to do this, let's just say it happens. All I should have to do is run the shoes through the microwave and the RFID tag should fry, right?

      I just bought a pair of skis that have RFID tags in them. What do you suggest I do?

    10. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by antifoidulus · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I would say I suggest you do your research ahead of time if you don't want RFID tags in your skis. See, it's simple: if you don't buy the skis with RFID tags in them then you don't have to worry about RFID tags in your skis. Obviously if enough people don't buy skis with RFID tags in them then the companies that produce said skis will go bankrupt. Freedom in action.
      And if you cannot be bothered to do your research ahead of time, don't expect me to care when you whine about the RFID tags in your skis.

    11. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by rts008 · · Score: 1

      WOOOSHH!! Overhead it goes! Laugh, it was kinda funny...as in joke.

      hints: "run", "shoes", "microwave", "fry"

      It's okay, we'll wait.

      P.S. yes, the microwave would "fry" the chip, but may also damage the shoes- don't know about the second part- too many variables involved (where in shoe was chip, materials of shoe, construction of shoe, etc.)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
    12. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Velox_SwiftFox · · Score: 1

      Well, given the number of tags proposed by some, they're going to end up in the ecology sooner or later, like Teflon or freon. Given a decade or two, they'll probably be accumulating in polar bear body fat, and innocent infants and the like will be exposed to them from sources like their mothers' milk.

    13. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Patrik_AKA_RedX · · Score: 1

      Easy: Find a radar station and hold them in front of the radar antenna.

    14. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Mathinker · · Score: 1
      No problem!

      Build and use the cool RFID Zapper.

      I have a feeling that their server might not be up to a Slashdotting, so use www.mirrordot.org if possible...

    15. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by pHatidic · · Score: 1

      Funny, because the sweaters at J Crew have RFID tags in them. The books at Borders have RFID tags in them. The CDs at Tower have RFID tags in them.

    16. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by F�an�ro · · Score: 1

      And if you cannot be bothered to do your research ahead of time, don't expect me to care when you whine about the RFID tags in your skis.

      But will you care when there are NO skis without rfid tags available for sale anywhere because too few people knew about the problem or bothered to research ahead of time?

    17. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Also, with national IDs, remember that the tag is likely to return no more data than a serial number. You then need access to the database to look up anything about the carrier.

      That means the best you could do is work out that the same person is doing xyz, but not who it is. And if it's encrypted (SecurID make very slim cards which contain technology quite capable of this), there's even less risk because it won't return a sensible number, or even any number at all.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    18. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

      First you assume this is a "problem". Did you ever stop to think that maybe some people would like their skis to have RFIDs? If so, should your desire trump theirs? If all skis have RFIDs, then you should start your own ski manufacturing company that doesn't put RFIDs in the skis. If you aren't successful well then tough. The market has spoken. No constitution on earth(even in Switzerland!) states that you have a right to skis. You either take what the market produces, produce your own, or don't use the product. Simple as that.

      I know a lot of people on this site don't like to face up to this, but freedom cuts both ways. People seem to think they should be able to do whatever they want, but go crying when someone else reserves that same right for themselves.

    19. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by F�an�ro · · Score: 1

      The market has spoken.
      O mighty market, thy word be the law! Deliver us from our suffering!

      No constitution on earth(even in Switzerland!) states that you have a right to skis.

      On the other hand, several constituions, including mine, state that your right to privacy is in many occasions stronger than the right of "the market" to do whatever it pleases.
      Of course rfid is such a new developement that laws and judgement dealing with it are scarce.

      You either take what the market produces, produce your own, or don't use the product. Simple as that.

      Or you limit the almighty power of "the market" through rules, preferably in a democratic way.
      If you are a big corporation, you can also try lobbying, cartels, monopoluistic pracises and and and...

      You seem to believe in the free market as some sort of noble goal, but do you really think that we have a working one, or any chance of getting it?

      People seem to think they should be able to do whatever they want, but go crying when someone else reserves that same right for themselves.

      Thats total nonsense. what gave you that idea?
      There are a lot of things that I don't think I should be able to do. Just for starters I don't believe I should be able to murder anyone, and I likewise will go crying "murder" when someone else does that.

    20. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by jibjibjib · · Score: 0

      Do you have *any* idea what your talking about? RFID tags aren't like some chemical or something. They're just electronic barcodes. I never heard anyone complain about the ecological impact of barcodes.

    21. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by meringuoid · · Score: 1
      Hell, windows are a privacy risk.

      You misspelled 'is'.

      --
      Real Daleks don't climb stairs - they level the building.
    22. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Zigg · · Score: 1

      The books at Borders have RFID tags in them. The CDs at Tower have RFID tags in them.

      Obviously, this creates justification for copyright infringement! To the torrent trackers I go! You'll not be tracking me right up until the point I open the case and throw the tag away, you godless privacy invaders! Ha-ha!

    23. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Yartrebo · · Score: 1

      Read Karl Marx sometime. It's has more to do with creating excess supply, which Capitalism cannot survive without war or something else to destroy excess capital.

      That said, I believe that RFID will increase costs, not decrease them. But increasing cost is not an issue for the retailer if it allows them to increase the average selling price or give them a competitive advantage over the competition. Just look at cereal boxes. The lowest cost way to distribute cold cereal is with a big bin and people put it into a jar or bag they bring. A little more expensive is to bag the cereal. Instead they use four-color glossy carboard boxes that are twice the size needed to fit the product.

    24. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by voice_of_all_reason · · Score: 1

      Buy a cheap microwave, take the magnetron out and construct your own irradiating chamber. I'm pretty sure they've done this at least once on mythbusters.

      Be sure to get some lead pantaloons on first, though. Just in case.

    25. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      The original wording was rather inflamitory ("The market has spoken"), but the idea is not invalid because of that. Obviously, there really is no such thing as "the market", at least not as an independent entity. The "market" for a product is nothing more or less than the sum of all of the people interested in that product. Your proposal to simply make rules against what some people obviously choose to buy is completely undemocratic. The concept of a "free market" is nothing more than a recognition of the basic fact that no individual, or group of individuals, whatever their title, position, or popular backing, has the right to force another individual to conform to their will. That is the essence of democracy, and it is a basic fact derived from the basic equality of human beings, and anything that attacks that equality is promoting slavery: the idea that some humans, being better or more deserving than others, have the right to make everyone else follow their orders against their will.

      You want the government (a set of people with different interests than those that make up "the market", but only individuals never the less, with no more inherent authority than any other group of individuals) to step in and force everyone else to play by your rules. Unless you're claiming you're somehow better than those who disagree with your views (which I doubt you intended), you do not have the right to make anyone else help you accomplish your goals, whatever those goals or the motivations for them might be, and neither does any self-styled "government".

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    26. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by F�an�ro · · Score: 1

      I have to disagree on your concept of what the free market is.

      The market, if left alone by democratic laws cannot be truly called "free", at least not in a good way. It is still impeded by big corporations throught cartels, monopolistic behaviours and all the other perks a free market brings with it. Left alone, a market will drift away furhter and further from being free, so additional tweaking by laws is neccessary and in the interest of the people.

      Such tweaking by laws is already being done today. There are hundreds of laws that deal with nothing else. Examples include the laws against price fixing, or (in my country) laws against requiring and storing private information whithout explicit consent of the customer, EU laws that require a minimum timespan for warranties, and so on.

      The question is whether such tweaking is neccessary in this case (rfid tags). Honestly, I am myself not sure yet if, and what exactly, should be tweaked.

      But such laws cannot be called undemocratic if reached in a democratric fashion. And I am not talking about a simple rule to forbid the sale of all rfid tags, so the choice of people who want to buy those should not be limited much.

      It all boils down to this: I suppose a significant fraction of people would prefer not to be traced throught each item they buy, or at least be given a choice in the matter, but does not have the time and resources to research each purchase beforehand.
      After all, it is not like this is listed on the case.

      These people would be in favor of laws that ensure this choice, for example a law that each rfid tag has to be removable by the customer, or a law that rfid tags in the components have to be listed like ingredients for food.

      As I said, I am not yet sure if such a law is neccessary or what form it would take, but if a law is made in a democratic fashion, then it cannot be called "undemocratic", and just the fact that it limits the power of the "free market" should not be a reason to oppose it.

    27. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Read Karl Marx sometime. It's has more to do with creating excess supply, which Capitalism cannot survive without war or something else to destroy excess capital.

      Read Proudhon or Gesell sometime. There's a very reasonable, dare I say convincing, argument to be made that excess supply is the logical outcome of a *properly* functioning capitalist system...

    28. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by maxpublic · · Score: 1

      It is still impeded by big corporations throught cartels, monopolistic behaviours and all the other perks a free market brings with it.

      Monopolies have nothing to do with the free market. You can't have a monopoly, or monopolistic behavior, without government backing. It requires power from the barrel of a government gun (via laws) in order for corporations to enforce a monopoly; without that power no corporation on Earth can have a monopoly unless they're willing to engage in other forms of illegal behavior, e.g., murdering anyone who creates a competing product - and we already have laws discouraging activities like murder.

      Monopolies are a sign of an *unfree* market, not a free one.

      Max

      --
      My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
    29. Re:Nearly oxymoronic there by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Oh, sure, you can have a "monopoly", in the sense that you could have a market served by just one individual or company, but that can only remain stable only so long as no one else can match their efficiency. Some markets really are best served by a natural monopoly.

      Furthermore, placing limits on products not only restricts the producers, but the consumers as well. What if I value the lower price more than the loss of privacy? If the seller can't use these RFID tags, then I'm going to pay the price. Also, the lack of information (or time required for research) is really a "red herring", because if people were really concerned about the problem they'd make sure other people knew about it, and stop buying from that retail stores that failed to clearly label RFID-tagged products. They'd probably also set up a "products with RFIDs" database, further reducing the cost of avoiding the tags. Information really is one of the easiest things to dissiminate, and one of the hardest to control (as the RIAA and MPAA are discovering). Lack of information isn't really a major obstacle.

      Judging from the response, I also think the GP and I are using different definitions of the word "democracy". The GP seems to be saying that the concentrated power of government should be directed by a simple majority vote in some semi-random subset of the population, a form of government frequently labelled "tyrany of the majority", not without reason. I am of the opinion that the power of government should not be concentrated in the first place, but should remain limited by the rights of the individuals who support it. Why can't people see that the only difference between theft and taxes[1] is one of scale? If an individual doesn't have the right to rob me to pay their debts, then how can they have the right to ask others (the government, usually) to rob me on their behalf, no matter how many people agree with them? What's mine is mine, and no other has any right to it.

      [1] "Taxes", as used here, includes enforced nonmonetary costs, like the proposed RFID restriction.

      [2] I'm not saying that I'm in favor of this use of RFID tags (or against it). I'm just opposed to the use of aggressive force against individuals or their property, which is implied in the enforcement of any such restriction.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
  4. Privacy fatigue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    "RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?"

    Yeah, because that crate of 300 rubber chickens from Shanghai really needs "privacy" as it makes its way from Dock 42 in Seattle to some anonymous Wal-Mart stockroom in Piedmont, Arizona.

    The annoying thing is that when they come for me, there will be plenty of people left to speak up for me, but nobody will be listening. Quit crying "wolf" over every meme that exits the blogosphere, fer Pete's sake.

    1. Re:Privacy fatigue by Concerned+Onlooker · · Score: 1
      Yeah, because that crate of 300 rubber chickens from Shanghai really needs "privacy" as it makes its way from Dock 42 in Seattle to some anonymous Wal-Mart stockroom in Piedmont, Arizona

      But you'll probably be a lot more interested in privacy when that rubber chicken makes its way from the Wal-Mart stockroom to your bedroom.

      --
      http://www.rootstrikers.org/
    2. Re:Privacy fatigue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At that point, privacy is the least of my issues.

    3. Re:Privacy fatigue by gbobeck · · Score: 1
      But you'll probably be a lot more interested in privacy when that rubber chicken makes its way from the Wal-Mart stockroom to your bedroom.


      That is assuming that (spr)Wall-Mart has their suppilers RFID tag every rubber chicken to be sold rather than every case/box/unit.

      Also I remember reading somewhere (read:I could be wrong about this) the following:

      (1) All RFID tags feature a built in kill function which permanently disables the tags. This is part of the RFID spec.

      (2) Passive RFID tags aren't readable from great distances. Someone would have to install an RFID reader in your bedroom to know if you are using your rubber chicken in bed (assuming that the tag was not killed). Also, RFID tags are difficult, if not impossible to read through materials which block radio waves.

      Active RFID tags (i.e. the ones used in the tollway systems) can be read from a greater distance, but their cost, size, and the fact you have to power them somehow will keep them out of your rubber chicken for quite some time. They also have distance limitations.

      (3) People will find out about what you do with rubber chickens after you either are sent to the hospital after abusing your rubber chicken and having to call the paramedics or members of PETRA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Rubber Animals) beat you into a pulp for abusing an "innocent" rubber animal in that manner.
      --
      Navicula hydraulica plena anguilarum est. Omnes castelli tuus nostri sunt. Ed elli avea del cul fatto trombetta.
    4. Re:Privacy fatigue by DrMrLordX · · Score: 1

      I want to start collecting some RFID tags and implant them in my skin so that when the gub'ment starts running scans on people, I'll show up on the scanner as a pallet of 300 rubber chickens, a cow in heat, an Xbox 360, some dog named Muffin that's been missing for 2 years(and counting), and any number of other inane things.

  5. Because.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... the world sucks?

  6. 33 Billion !!! by 2674 · · Score: 3, Funny

    RFID my Shiny Metal Ass!!!

    1. Re:33 Billion !!! by fuyu-no-neko · · Score: 1

      "RFID my Shiny Metal Ass!!!"

      *beep*
      You are 2674, ID# 661934.
      You are an occasional poster to the news site "Slashdot".
      We know where you live.

      Thank you for participating in our RFID test.

      --
      Don't take the above poster too seriously. He doesn't.
    2. Re:33 Billion !!! by 2674 · · Score: 1

      Nekosama, are you japanese?

  7. Obvious Privacy Flaws by jasonditz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Warrantless wiretapping, anti-anonymity laws, calls for heavier regulation of pre-pay cell phone purchases, video cameras on street corners, "free speech zones" where they ask you to show ID.

    RFID is going in the same direction as the rest of the world, which is away from individual privacy vis-a-vis the state and vis-a-vis the large, "trustworthy" corporation

    1. Re:Obvious Privacy Flaws by fabs64 · · Score: 1

      oh ffs, RFID is a serial number or a barcode that can be read without line of sight.
      The sky is not falling.

    2. Re:Obvious Privacy Flaws by msormune · · Score: 1

      No, YOU are going to the direction most people seem to be going. You are afraid and wary. That maybe what your government wants you to feel like.

      Terrorists seem to have already beaten you.

    3. Re:Obvious Privacy Flaws by Tarwn · · Score: 1

      Unless you planned on sticking an RFID tag to your forehead and masquerading as a crate/box/skid in the closest loading dock/manufacturing facility/etc then I think you will be ok.

      --
      Whee signature.
    4. Re:Obvious Privacy Flaws by jasonditz · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there's hundreds of guys with blue uniforms and pistols watching my every move and I'm worried about the terrorists.

  8. Car Keys by borisborf · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It will be interesting to see if this drives down the cost of RFID keys for cars (as mentioned in the article). Right now, Chrysler wants a couple hundred bucks for a copy of the key to each of my cars. I cant just head to Walmart and get myself a fifty cent copy.

    1. Re:Car Keys by abdulwahid · · Score: 1

      There are two types of RFID: active and passive. Active meaning they have their own power supply to enable them to transmit. Passive is where there is no power supply but the chip is powered by the small amount of power generated by actually being scanned. The small tags that are put in labels and for palets are passive. These are the ones that will be made in the millions and are very cheap.

      Car keys use active RFID so will not be affected much by the mass production.

      --
      perl -e 'print $i=pack(c5, (41*2), sqrt(7056), (unpack(c,H)-2), oct(115), 10);'
    2. Re:Car Keys by karmatic · · Score: 1

      Alright, I'm a [casual] locksmith, so I really shouldn't tell you this, but oh well...

      If you have two original keys, do the following:

      Grab yourself a $12 or so transponder key from eBay.

      Get someone to cut the key. Your local home depot can possibly do this - your local locksmith almost certainly can. I don't know about Wal-Mart.

      Put the first original key in the ignition, turn to on.
      Wait 5 seconds, turn off.
      Very quickly insert the second original key, and turn on.
      Wait 10 seconds for the SKIS indicator light to flash, and a tone to be emitted.
      Within 60 seconds, throw in the new key, and turn it on.
      About 10 seconds later, a tone will sound, and the SKIS indicator stops flashing, goes solid for 3 seconds, then turns off. This means the new key is programmed.

      Congratulations, you have a $12 new key rather than a couple of hundred dollars. There is a 50 cent copy solution, but it involves some serious work removing the transponder system. It's easier to just program a new key yourself.

      For what it's worth, some of the owners manuals describe the above process.

    3. Re:Car Keys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, most cars currently use passive RFID systems. Active tags have only recently come into play in more complex theft deterrent systems. And I doubt the cost of getting a new key is strongly linked to the cost of the actual key itself anyway. It's the time/ability to program the car to accpet the new key that influences most of the cost.

  9. Most innovated use of rfid by truckaxle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    No bull shit check out these guys putting rfid in cows. Looks like they check the cows health and if she is in heat!

    1. Re:Most innovated use of rfid by BHennessy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This could be how future governments view us.

    2. Re:Most innovated use of rfid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had never heard of 'Hardware Disease' before reading this link. Thank you, /.!

    3. Re:Most innovated use of rfid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      ...future?

    4. Re:Most innovated use of rfid by rts008 · · Score: 0

      Magnets help! Just swallow it and it collects the hardware before it penetrates intestinal or stomach wall. (Tip of the day: If you have hardware desease and have swallowed the magnet, be VERY wary of laxatives! *ouch!*) disclaimer: Yes, IAACVT (I Am A Certified Veterinary Technician)

      --
      Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
  10. In other news... by javaDragon · · Score: 2, Funny
    RFID Zapper production set to increase 1000 folds during the same period.

    And that's just because most beople can't afford A real EMP shock generator

    --
    -- javaDragon is an instance of JavaDragon.
    1. Re:In other news... by Rezun8er · · Score: 1

      Let's hope that the Gorgio Armani suits in his 2010 line come complete with internally stitched Farady cages. The bubble wrap body suit phase didn't quite catch on, but giant metal cages? That's gonna be a hit!

  11. Google House by xiphoris · · Score: 4, Funny

    Perhaps once it becomes standard that pretty much everything is tagged with RFID, maybe I'll be able to use Google House to find that sock I lost a year ago! I know it's here somewhere...

  12. Non-RFID companies popping up? by farmhick · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I wonder if there will be specialty companies that guarantee their products are RFID free. Their shipping containers may use them, since they are the next step for inventory control. But what of smaller companies that would make or sell clothing with no imbedded RFIDs, which are of course all of our concerns?

    Just like there is 'hemp' clothing that seems to be bought as a stand against "The Man", does anyone see 'RDID-free' as a growing market? And if so, how long until they are bought out by the large corporations, and tags start going in?

    --
    I have to stop wasting so much time reading Slashdot. It's interfering with my crystal meth addiction.
    1. Re:Non-RFID companies popping up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the same way "ethical" companies are driving Nike into bankruptcy through advertising they don't use sweatshop labour.

  13. Alternatives? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To bring a newbie up to speed, the front page post states that "RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?"

    From what I understand, the only real privacy protection from RFID's is that the corporations self-police themselves.. which is unlikely. I'm curious if other alternative solutions out there to RFID that can provide a similar service?

  14. r.e.a.c.t.i.o.n.a.r.y. that is how we spell.... by riprjak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh dear; what an alarmist post.

    Yes, granted, RFID does have some privacy implications when applied in P.O.S. applications, hospitals and such like.

    However, AFAIK, by far and above the largest use is in automotive security, logistics and workflow handling. Boxes dont care if people know whats in them, but it sure as shit makes the warehouse easier to manage if your robot/forklift knows what is in those boxes and automagically tracks stock in and out. Even walmart would still use RFID even if they weren't allowed to use it on stock in shop, because the would still use it for shipment and bulk stock management.

    Most of the increased use of RFID will still remain back office, in factories, warehouses and other transit points. Put your tinfoil hats away.

    *IF* the article discussed governments planning to RFID tag humans behind the left ear, then, perhaps, we would have a major issue.

    However, the small number of privacy impacting cases aside, RFID is an incredibly flexible technology. In factory workflow planning, it allows us to remove human error from data logging. The workstation AUTOMATICALLY presents you with the correct fittings for component G because it knows you are assembling component G and not component W. Barcodes dont even come close.

    The inventory management system knows what stock levels you have in the Finished Goods Inventory (FGI) because it has scanned the RFID bearing kanban's as the goods were loaded into the FGI racks.

    Even if EVERY SINGLE application which impacted privacy was disallowed and canned; RFID use would still exponentially increase as people replace laser based barcode systems with RFID because it is more reliable (in a maintenance sense), easier and ultimately cheaper. Furthermore, it allows for far more efficient automated handling systems to be designed because you no longer have the limitation that every box needs to be in a direct line of sight for the scanner.

    So, perhaps, just perhaps, the increased use of RFID *MIGHT* be in aid of improving the efficiency of the manufacturing and logistics industry and *NOT* to track where you take your pr0n. Considering how much whining about offshoring goes on here, you would think productivity technologies might get a better hearing.

    Ah well. Just my Engineers $0.02 AUD
    err!
    jak.

    1. Re:r.e.a.c.t.i.o.n.a.r.y. that is how we spell.... by 1u3hr · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Oh dear; what an alarmist post.

      That's the whole idea. Look at the submitter's linked web page.

    2. Re:r.e.a.c.t.i.o.n.a.r.y. that is how we spell.... by gzunk · · Score: 1
      *IF* the article discussed governments planning to RFID tag humans behind the left ear, then, perhaps, we would have a major issue.


      The government wouldn't put it behind your left ear, it would be too easy to cut off. Embedded somewhere in the middle of your chest is better.
  15. News just in by Belseth · · Score: 5, Funny

    A Walmart was struck with an EMP weapon by terrorist. All RFID tags were wiped out causing chaos. No longer able to track customers purchases the marketing department has applied for disaster relief funds. The White House responded and FEMA was on the scene within the hour to help in the replacement of the lost tags. The President stated that allowing the customers to go untracked was a major victory for the terrorist and the situation must be resolved as quickly as possible. Haliburton is expected to deliver the new tags before the store opens tomorrow. The 50 billion dollar RFID tag replacement program was considered a bargin given the potential loss to the Walmart marketing department.

    1. Re:News just in by msormune · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, because in US the most terrifying situation is not when a lot of people lose lives, but when a lot of people are stoppped from buying useless crap.

    2. Re:News just in by ttys00 · · Score: 1

      FEMA was on the scene within the hour

      Your joke was not too far-fetched, except for this bit.

  16. RFID in the supply chain by zjbs14 · · Score: 4, Informative
    For those who want to understand more about the real-world use of RFID, and not just spout alarmist paranoia, here's a link to EPCglobal, the standards group that defines RFID tag and data interchange for supply chain applications.

    --
    No sig, sorry.
  17. I can't wait for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a regular poster here, who - ironically enough - is going AC for this post to preserve my privacy.

    "...why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?"

    Because it is a labor-saving device.
    I own a bookstore. It is the largest independant bookstore in a 3+ million city in the US. Shelving books and keeping track of them is one of my biggest expenses in terms of labor. And it is boring labor. The employees gnerally find it the most unpleasant part of the job aside from cleaning the toilets.

    I can't wait to be able to do inventory by just walking along the isle with a scanner. It will save me many thousands of dollars every year. And the employees will be happier.

    I don't want to intrude on your privacy. I'd be quite happy if RFIDs work only in my store and not in your home. But I'm going to use them because they make my life easier and they will save my money.

    1. Re:I can't wait for them by TooMuchToDo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Here here. It's posts like yours that make me hold out hope that not everyone on Slashdot is a reactionary 14 year old.

      Hats off to you sir, and I hope your eventual RFID roll-out occurs. I would be more then happy to purchase a book from your store =)

    2. Re:I can't wait for them by smithberry · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yep I agree. I work in a library and hunting for missing books is the worst part of the job (we have a cleaning staff for the toilets :-) ). If every book was RFID tagged, the (already compterised) library catalog wouldn't just say "on the shelves" it could say (for sure) which shelf. And if a book was missing, we'd know before we spent an hour hunting through every shelf.

      So I see RFID a bit like a car. Lots of folk die in car accidents, but for society as a whole the benefits seem to out weigh the problems. (although I doubt RFID will directly kill quite so many.)

    3. Re:I can't wait for them by u38cg · · Score: 1

      Ditto. I work in what's called high care food processing - which basically means that if our food isn't sterile when it goes in the pack, it might kill someone. Unfortunately, people don't like to pay very much for food, so our workers are not well paid and the old rule - pay peanuts, get monkeys - applies. If a supervisor isn't looking, all sorts of funny things happen. Workers enter a food processing area and don't wash their hands. Storage baskets are reused without being washed. Controlled items (knives, scissors) end up in packets. Dodgy product is sent out on long dates. With a tag on every single item, it would be easy to query the database for, say, re-used baskets, or anybody that hasn't stood at a sink for more than an hour, or stock issues like people pulling in ten times as much stuff from the stores as they need (which costs money). The potential benefits of this technology are huge - the issue for now is cost. We need cheap tags, and more importantly, scanners that we can put *everywhere*, all over the place. For this kind of application, the cost of scanners is more important than the tags themselves.

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
    4. Re:I can't wait for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I work in a library, and we use RFID tags on all our items. In a perfect world, this will save us time and help us keep the books in their right places. Unfortunately, it's not a perfect world. Right now, approaching two years in to using RFID, it's still a giant pain in the ass. It's slower and less effective than our old manual system (the patrons and staff agree; the administration doesn't care and keeps talking about it to other libraries), and every time I put an RFID tag on an item, I can't help but think of the expense.

      I spend enough time swearing at our RFID tags and the system that I've lost any privacy fears I once had of RFID.

      So, dream away, but give it a few more years before you implement.

  18. Copper by Box+Dog · · Score: 1

    Right.. Sure... and where are they gonna find the http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/ 18/1623244copper for all these RFID tag antennas?!

  19. fold? am I the only geek on /.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    25 fold and 25 times are not the same thing! how could this not be noticed? has slashdot gone that downhill? for the moronic: fold comes from the idea of folding, for example, a piece of paper, you fold it once you have 2, twice you have 4, 3 times you have 8 sections...fold is exponential...duh

    1. Re:fold? am I the only geek on /.? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      25 fold and 25 times are not the same thing! how could this not be noticed? has slashdot gone that downhill? for the moronic: fold comes from the idea of folding, ..fold is exponential.

      Bollocks.

      Oxford Dictionary:
      -fold /fld/ suff. [OE -fald, -feald = OFris., OS -fald (Du. -voud), (O)HG -falt, ON -faldr, Goth -falps, cogn. w. FOLD v.1 and w. Gk -paltos, -plasios, also w. plo- in haplos, and prob. w. L (sim)plex.] Forming adjs. and advs. from cardinal numerals and adjs. meaning 'many' w. the senses 'multiplied by', 'in an amount multiplied by', 'having so many parts', as in threefold, manifold, etc., and parallel ns. used with a w. the sense 'a specified number or amount of times' (cf. FOLD n.3).

    2. Re:fold? am I the only geek on /.? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You aren't the only geek. I too get testy when someone on CNBC talks about how a stock's earnings are up 5 fold... when they really mean 5 times.

    3. Re:fold? am I the only geek on /.? by jasperbg · · Score: 1

      I think you mean idiot, not geek.

    4. Re:fold? am I the only geek on /.? by rhaig · · Score: 1

      just goes to show that most humans don't really understand the meaning of the words they use.

      I've thought for many years that the use of fold to mean 'multiplied by' was moronic. I understand it's mis-use, but everytime I see it it's annoying.

      --
      "We are not tolerant people. We prefer drastically effective solutions"
    5. Re:fold? am I the only geek on /.? by 1u3hr · · Score: 1
      just goes to show that most humans don't really understand the meaning of the words they use.

      I'm not bothered by -fold, after all you can fold something in many ways, not just over and over to double; but "decimate" is another numeric word that is generally used in a way almost inverse to the definition.

  20. So for all of you concerned about RFID by joeflies · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Did you find that the RFID chip in your car keys is a violation of your privacy? Did you take measures to remove it?

    Do you decline to use your badge to open the building door at work?

    Is it only a violation of privacy when it's used in supply chain management?

    1. Re:So for all of you concerned about RFID by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Do you decline to use your badge to open the building door at work?

      My god! If RFID is that unreliable, why is anyone using it and why would anyone be afraid of the privacy implications? I routinely had to swipe my card 3 or 4 times just to get the damned door to open.

      strike

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  21. Which RFID company to invest in... by Douglas+Simmons · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Flash memory is to SanDisk as RFID technology is to ______?

    1. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by zjbs14 · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      No sig, sorry.
    2. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by nerotik · · Score: 1

      Texas Instruments also has a pretty extensive line of RFID products. We ordered one of their evaluation kits for a graduate course project, and it's pretty neat stuff.

    3. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by flutkatastrophe · · Score: 1

      Here's your fiesty upstart http://www.alientechnology.com/ and here's your huge, entrenched competetor http://www.sensormatic.com/home.asp

    4. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by blueskies · · Score: 1

      ThingMagic

      Except that we aren't accepting investment.

    5. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Philips do heaps of ISO tags. A lot of other companies just chuck Philips tags inside their own casings. See Applied Wireless ID (AWID) etc.

    6. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by smug_lisp_weenie · · Score: 1

      Symbol Technologies (SBL) is the most straightforward company to invest in- They also bought Matrics recently, who has a lot of expertise in making tags (Note, Symbol had some serious "mini Enrons" in their past- So the stock price is low, but...) Philips makes lots of RFID equipment but has the problem that they aren't (and I can't believe I am going to use shmarmy investor speak here...) a "pure play". Alien Technologies is another name bandied about, but I think they're not on a US stock market. (don't hold me to any of these details, as they are from slightly hesitant memory)

    7. Re:Which RFID company to invest in... by smug_lisp_weenie · · Score: 1

      oh- I should mention I own some SBL stock.

  22. The really scary thing by chadamir · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I dont know if you guys have heard of this, but they've invented a device that allows a person to see through walls. Pretty soon everyone's going to have one, and it will be the end of privacy. Can you imagine what it's going to be like when anyone can look in your house whenever they want? It let's you see through walls...They're calling it a "window"

    1. Re:The really scary thing by narcc · · Score: 1

      I hear you can selectivly deactivate these "windows" with the optional blind(tm) and curtain(tm) add-on modules. Though I think the option to disable should come pre-installed. How's the casual home user supposed to know about, let alone install, these extra features?

    2. Re:The really scary thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the parent post refers to this: http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Jan2006/20060103_3 822.html.

  23. Only Korean Generals need to RFID their troops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only N^GSouth Korean Generals need to RFID-tag their troops.

    They didn't have this problem in Soviet Russia. In Soviet Russia, troops tagged you.

  24. Why? by mr_zorg · · Score: 3, Insightful
    RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?

    Because they handily solve so many pressing problems? Don't blame the technology for its misuse, that's the fault of people. Stores can deactivate RFID tags just as they remove the current crop of anti-theft devices. If they don't, don't shop there!

    1. Re:Why? by cogg · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Stores can deactivate RFID tags just as they remove the current crop of anti-theft devices. If they don't, don't shop there!
      The chances are they will. Why pay for two technologies, when you can pay for one. Retailers could use the RFID tag for inventory management and for as anti-theft. If it is used for anti-theft, then it will likely be disabled at the sales counter.
      So if you don't want active RFID tags , don't steal!
      --
      "Never 'clear the air'. Instead, investigate all the subtle nuances of the word 'fester'." - R. Candappa
    2. Re:Why? by gnud · · Score: 1

      It seems to me like Slashdot blames easily exploitable technology (eg. windows) all the time.
      Few people would have a proplem with RFID used to simplify workflows, but it seems that many are not sure big corporations or goverments won't misuse it somehow.

  25. EETimes: Global news ... by J.+Random+Luser · · Score: 1

    33 billion RFID tags huh? TFA indicates the vast majority of these will be used in warehouse tracking and similar tasks in a few technologically aware industries. 33 billion ~= 6 tags for every man woman and child on this planet, 80% of whom will never come within 10^6 times scanning distance of one in their entire life. This is Global News? In a week when James Lovelock is warning us that Gaia is ready to cough up those industries that make and use RFID tags, along with the 4 billion innocent non-users...

    1. Re:EETimes: Global news ... by anogee · · Score: 1

      > 33 billion ~= 6 tags for every man woman and child on this planet, Yup, but most men, woman and children will never get even one, with the exception of some places like China that are giving every person in the country an ID card with RFID. (Thats over a billion.) Now, how many livestock are in the world? A bunch? And don't think some people will own more than one RFID tag? How many cars do you own? If they are recent cars, you probably already have RFID tags in your pocket. They are in most car keys. I use an RFID key to get in my house, so I have a few in my pocket already.

  26. Re:Google House - I'd buy one! by kburkhardt · · Score: 1

    Laugh now, but if everything you buy has an RFID in it, why wouldn't you want a Google House type search?

    Load Google House into your house's HAL9000, plug your floor plan into it, put sensors in appropriate spots, and bingo!

    Where are my keys? Ah, I see they are on the wall hook, not on the table. Where's the remote? X marks the spot. Did junior take my playboy and hide it under his bed *again*? Atta boy - guess I'll just buy another copy. :)

  27. Walmart's the word by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?

    Because Walmart (the other evil empire) is demanding it, and what Walmart wants Walmart gets...

  28. No. No, it's not. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 1

    RFIDs are not barcodes. They contain enough data to uniquely identify not only every item on the shelf, but every instance of that item. This is the difference between a 12-digit UPC and a 512-byte passive RFID.

    If a sale is made, and you pay with an identifying method, such as a credit or debit card, or even a supermarket affinity card, that particular item is now linked to your identity. This is why the increased data capacity of RFIDs is meaningful.

    And, of course, this means that if a major metropolitan area decides to put RFID readers in its lamp posts, it can track the movements of its citizens--not all, but enough of them--by the RFIDs in their pants as they walk by.

    But you think this is no more dangerous than a barcode?

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
    1. Re:No. No, it's not. by fabs64 · · Score: 1

      And a model no. + serial no. DOESN'T uniquely identify an instance of an item somehow?
      Bought a laptop lately? Check the serial no. on the back, it will almost certainly be unique to that laptop.
      There is no real feasible way to do the orwellian thing with RFID in consumer products without some ridiculously huge database and infrastructure as well as cooperation between millions of seperate stores, govt, competing producers etc etc.

      The same FUD was spread when barcode readers and credit cards came into play.
      When the government starts trying to implant an RFID chip in my neck and IS installing readers in every lampost I'll be one of the first to freak out and make a big fuss, but untill then I'm gunna go ahead and be content with accepting RFID for what it is; another useful technology making life easier and the world more efficient.

    2. Re:No. No, it's not. by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 2, Informative

      There is no real feasible way to do the orwellian thing with RFID in consumer products without some ridiculously huge database and infrastructure as well as cooperation between millions of seperate stores, govt, competing producers etc etc.

      I belive that IPv6 address space contains enough unique IPs to have something like a million per square metre of the earth's surface. IPv6 is going to be implemented.

      It's simply a question of scaling. Consider the RFID tag to be like a unique IP. Can you locate that ID amid distruibuted databases? Potentially yes.

      Marketers want this. The lust for it. If you tag it, they will find a way to grok it.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  29. There needs to be legislation to prevent abuse. by Antony-Kyre · · Score: 1

    There are advantages to RFID microchips. It can make it easier for stores to scan items at checkout and do inventory. It could help you find lost items easier (using a reader and walking around with it). However, there needs to be legislation to prevent privacy abuse. Maybe make it illegal for stores to retain the data once the item is scanned out of their store.

  30. RFID brings MANY Privacy Considerations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From http://www.spychips.com/ - just one of many examples:

    Q: Is it true there are plans to put RFID chips in Euro banknotes?
    A: Hitachi has been working with the European Central Bank on the idea of putting RFID chips into Euro banknotes. This would eliminate the anonymity of cash by making it trackable. In essence, it would "register" your cash to you when you get it from the teller or take it out of the ATM. Euro banknotes could be RFID tagged as early as 2005. See: "Euro Notes May be Radio Tagged" at http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t295-s2135074,00. html for details.

    1. Re:RFID brings MANY Privacy Considerations by $ASANY · · Score: 1
      Horsehockey.

      A passive tag typically is 96 bits in length these days, and those are the only tags anywhere near economically feasible for large-scale deployment. Of those 96 bits, you need between 30-50 bits to identify the encoding construct and the marking entity. That leaves you usually with on average 32-48 bits available for you to put your nefarious track-the-human-and-spy-on-him payload. There are lots of barcodes that can contain far more information than EPC Class 1 Gen 2 passive RFID tags.

      If you can completely control me with 32 bits of data, well, you're such an awesome engineer that I probably should reward you by letting you do it. That's as close to engineering nirvana as I've ever heard.

      Those 32 to 48 bits are nothing but a unique identifier within a marking entities address space, and all the potential for tracking and controlling is back in the enterprise where that unique identifier gets translated into meaningful and useful information. If "they" have all the data about me that would be required in order to understand who I am and what I'm doing, I'm royally screwed regardless of whether my toothpaste tube is in a package that has an RFID tag on it. That tag is entirely irrelevant.

      Here's a sample data stream from your privacy-invading fixed passive RFID reader that has about $5k of middleware attached that will identify tag constructs and filter redundant data:
      TAG READ: CONSTRUCT: SBSS EPC MGR CODE:11045 ID: 10F4 C061 0117 found
      TAG READ: CONSTRUCT: GIAI ENT ID:4CY76 PROD: 56A23 TAG ID: 5671 B1C7 found
      TAG READ: CONSTRUCT: SBSS EPC MGR CODE:11045 TAG ID: E254 887F 0045 found
      TAG READ: CONSTRUCT: DOD96 TYPE: CASE CAGE: 0GTY88 ID: 9867 7F 7645 found

      My, I saw 10F4 C061 0117 today! Holy bitbucket, batman! Whatever that is, I OWN it now!

  31. Reaction not to FUD, but to an existing threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    Taken from http://www.spychips.com/blog/index.html :

    There are two glass encapsulated RFID tags pictured above. One is intended for human flesh, the other for the scruff of your pet's neck. Which is which?

    Answer: The chip pictured at the top is VeriChip's VeriMed chip that former U.S. Secretary of Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson would like to see implanted in all Americans. Directly below the human chip is the animal chip marketed by Schering-Plough under the "Home Again" brand name.

    There's no visible difference between the chips. They look the same, and they're both manufactured by subsidiaries of VeriChip's parent company Applied Digital Solutions. The whitish substance on the end of the chips is an anti-migration coating called "biobond" that encourages tissue growth so the chip doesn't move around inside of the animial--human, feline, or canine.

    There is a technical difference between the chips that you wouldn't see with the naked eye. The pet chip contains a 9-digit number while the human chip contains a 16-digit number. I asked VeriChip spokesman John Procter why the human version contained 16-digits. His reply: "flexibility." He said the company wanted to ensure there would be enough unique numbers available for all the people it envisions chipping. Yikes!

    Note: The VeriChip corporation tries to ease consumer fears by referring to the chip as being "about the size of a grain of rice." The rice in the photo above is long-grain rice--the longest grain I could find in my pantry. As you can see, the VeriChip is much larger.

  32. MOD PARENT UP PLEASE! by Da+VinMan · · Score: 1

    Awesome post ..Thank you! Wish I had mod points for you.

    I do think your tin foil hat loses some luster though given your informed and rational stance on RFID technology/privacy. You're making WAY too much sense to be in the foil 'hood anymore. :)

    --
    Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
  33. Walmart wants to know WHO is buying WHAT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "RFID: a pathway to your soul?

    Retail consultant Kevin Coupe of MorningNewsBeat tells us the average American household spends $1,500 a week on necessities -- along with a whole lot of useless junk. (My paraphrase.) When you combine all those households, American Demographics reports that Americans spend more each week than the entire annual gross domestic product of Finland. That's a lot of spending.

    Kevin Coupe thinks it's great, since "this level of spending has helped to keep the U.S. economy relatively healthy" (though he acknowledges that much of the spending is done on credit cards, contributing to our crushing debt load). He also praises the skyrocketing growth of the U.S. population as "another healthy sign." (Hey! Yeah! Let's make more consumers! Then Americans can consume every last thing on the planet!) But the real jaw-dropper is this advice he gives to marketers about the bloated spenders. In addition to capturing their money, Coupe suggests going straight for their souls.

    He writes:

            These are our customers. Understanding them is the first step in serving them. And that means understanding them in fundamental ways... It means going beyond demographics.... Demographics is the study of what makes people the same. Psychographics is the study of what makes them different, and ultimately, we believe, is a better tool for figuring out a pathway into consumers' souls.

    Our souls? We'll charitably assume he didn't really mean that. But RFID coupled with our personal data would be the ultimate marketing tool. Coupe explains:

            We've become a culture that is able to generate enormous data on almost every customer we have....It is time for the knowledge-based retailer to serve the knowledge-based society. Some technologies, such as RFID, will make this easier...(Think of the powerful, knowledge-based marketing engine that Wal-Mart will have once its RFID efforts really get traction, and it owns banks and can issue credit cards/smart cards to its customers.)

    Yes, indeed. I think of the "powerful, knowledge-based marketing engine" now gaining traction every day. But do we really want Wal-Mart owning banks and tracking people around the store with spychipped credit cards? And more importantly, do we really want them having an RFID pathway into our souls?"

    From http://www.spychips.com/blog/index.html

  34. Supply chain management by scdeimos · · Score: 1
    By far the biggest RFID segment in coming years will be supply chain management," said Allen Nogee, In-Stat analyst, in a statement.
    Of course what he failed to mention was that within the supply chain management strata there's one segment that can't use RFID - the manufacturers and distributors of RFID. How could you put your own tag on a pallet/box of RFID tags and still use yours to track them? :)
    1. Re:Supply chain management by Ripsaw · · Score: 1
      You could easily read the tag on a box of RFID tags by using the tag selection capabilites of the latest "air" protocol -- EPCglobal Class 1, Generation 2 (usually called just "Gen 2".) Only the addressed tags would transmit. This is the type of tag that's expected to be used in most supply chain operations.

      See the Gen 2 standard for the (incredibly complex) details.

  35. Privacy is important? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

    RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?

    Since when have companies ever gave a flip about maintianing the average person's privacy? The fact you have to opt-out of policies that share information most consumers would obviously rather keep private is proof enough.

  36. This isn't good by fonos · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As a person who is forced to carry around an ID with RFID implemented into it, I can say this sucks. I go to an international school in Beijing, and to get any food at all, you need what they call a "smart card" which is basically just an ID card with your picture on it but it has RFID implemented into it. School policy is you can't pay straight-up cash for food which is really annoying seeing that everything you purchase via your smart card is logged. My parents can just go to the web interface and look at what I've been eating or whatever.

    Now this isn't RFID's fault, the same thing could be possible with using magnetic stripes, but it's policy and the logging of things that's the privacy invasion. RFID just makes things easier for those wanting to get your log your information and stuff. All I have to say is, get the duct tape RFID blocking wallets now! ^_^

    1. Re:This isn't good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uk are RFIDing numberplates soon , but of course it's for your own good...

    2. Re:This isn't good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you eat out instead?

    3. Re:This isn't good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a real big issue because they don't have a unique identifying code already printed on them... oh wait, yes they do.

  37. Where the difference lies. by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And a model no. + serial no. DOESN'T uniquely identify an instance of an item somehow? Bought a laptop lately? Check the serial no. on the back, it will almost certainly be unique to that laptop.

    But that's not the same sort of problem. My laptop's serial number is not encoded in any discernible way in my system's software (I wiped the bundled software when I got it); if I walk down the street, my movements cannot be tracked by it. When the laptop is turned off and sitting in its briefcase, it is nontrivial to read its serial number.

    There is no real feasible way to do the orwellian thing with RFID in consumer products without some ridiculously huge database and infrastructure as well as cooperation between millions of seperate stores, govt, competing producers etc etc.

    My point is that the ridiculously huge database you hand-wave away already exists. Consider a receipt from my local Wal-Mart. It has a unique number on it, so that they can, if I return something, pull up the record of the transaction. This transaction, if I used a credit or debit card, has my name on it. Currently, serial numbers are not on this transaction record, because it would be difficult to put them on it; they're not on the barcodes. However, moving to RFIDs would make it trivial to do so. Thus, we have a link between the consumer and the purchased item.

    If you recall, the TIA program was to fuse government and commercial databases. The idea isn't so far-fetched.

    The same FUD was spread when barcode readers and credit cards came into play.
    When the government starts trying to implant an RFID chip in my neck and IS installing readers in every lampost I'll be one of the first to freak out and make a big fuss, but untill then I'm gunna go ahead and be content with accepting RFID for what it is; another useful technology making life easier and the world more efficient.


    I'd say it'd be a bit late at that point.

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
    1. Re:Where the difference lies. by halltk1983 · · Score: 1

      Did you change your MAC address, too? Those are unique, and trackable. Just askin...

      --
      Watch for Penguins, they eat Apples and throw rocks at Windows.
  38. The problem is telling them apart .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If many items will contain RFIDs it will pose a design challenge: how to isolate 'yours' from the rest? I can already see the problem in London Underground: the Oyster card (stored value travel card) is RFID based, but if you have another RFID card in the same holder (like my ID badge) it fails until you take the two apart.

    In this case it's easy to separate the two, but what if you don't even know you've been 'wired' with RFIDs in other articles? On the bright side, it at least means that you can use a London Underground scanner to check (it will tell you if it scans a code by stating that that code 'is not registered' ;-).

    Now expand that to world + dog having RFIDs all over - you will be required to scann all the tags you find, and then match that whole collection against your 'own' list. Enter next problem: the volume of tags you need to match, and what you should do with a mismatch. Say you use it for access control: does the wrong tag mean someone's trying to break the system?

    At leats privacy isn't that much of an issue as long as they truly randomise the numbering.

    Given what I've seen of late of privacy violations (usually in the name of "fighting terrorism") I don't hold out much hope there either, so overall it really looks like the next Bad Idea heading your way. Combine that with DRM and you'll see we have a nice time coming for technology risk management. It might be worth retraining as a lawyer - they'll be laughing all the way to the bank on this (and, IMHO, rightly so, it's not like most technical people haven't been flagging these problems for years).

  39. anonymous Cash exchange places by spineboy · · Score: 1

    But when you ask someone else for change, it screws up the whole system. Probably stores won't keep track of what bills they hand you either.

    --
    ..........FULL STOP.
  40. Readers are where its at by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

    RFID tags maybe the privacy issue but whats really going to matter are readers. Do we have any idea where and how readers will be installed? How fast is RFID reader technology developing? In the coming years readers are going to become much cheaper and have longer ranges and processing power. Worse (or better) these things will start to be networked, I can imagine by 2010 most mobile phones will have built RFID support, security cameras will probably have them fitted too, many building entrances and exits, computers, laptops, and some of these things will have pretty decent ranges or will be able to interact with other readers to get better signals.

    This technology is too useful for people to ignore, for example you could have an RFID fire safety system that monitors which tags (just random things such as clothes) enter a building and which tags leave, if there's a fire there will be an instant count of who's in the building and even where, privacy issues will just be put aside because this is about saving lives.

    In London this week the police used the travel log of a murdered lawyer to trace his stolen RFID ticket on the tube, this will be completely normal in 5 years, again privacy issues will be put aside because this is about solving murders and rapes.

    You're not going to have a choice in RFID, everyone else will ignore the privacy issues forcing you to comply, any job you get will want you to carry an RFID card, if you want to travel you'll need an RFID ticket, if you use money it will have RFID in it, unless you pry it out of everything you buy you're pretty much certain to have at least one RFID tag on your person at all times within the next 5 years.

    --
    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    1. Re:Readers are where its at by $ASANY · · Score: 1
      Reader technology is limited by pretty ordinary physics issues, so don't expect inexpensive, uniquitous 900MHz passive readers that are immune to interference to start showing up any time soon. Readers operate on public use frequencies, and baby monitors, cordless phones, microwave ovens, and a host of other equipment easily wreaks havoc with reads. The return signal from a passive tag to a reader is on the order of -50 dbm, far, far less power than your cell phone emits. The readers are power limited under FCC rules Part 15, so you can't crank up the power in the hopes of getting a better return signal -- not that that works too well anyways.

      Nokia makes a cell phone with an integrated 13.56MHz RFID reader. They work pretty well, but the read range for 13.56 is a couple of inches at best. Limited use cases for this, but an interesting idea.

      The fire safety system has been piloted within the US Government, but there are implementation issues that haven't been cleared so it's still in pilot.

      A lot of you out there have been using 13.56MHz systems for building access badges for years, and I haven't seen much complaining about those. It's doubtful anyone will be interested in using 900MHz for this with longer ranges, since access control works better when you're guaranteed one read at a time from close range. Reading multiple tags at 10ft and opening a lock because one of them is authorized isn't a good use case.

      Where this stuff is really useful is in a warehouse/distrubution center. Thousands of boxes an hour running past a reader on a conveyor system and being read automagically in order to be correctly routed to the right loading bay, instead of requiring a human to perform mind-numbing task of sorting is a HUGE winner. Lower costs, fewer mistakes, and you can speed up the conveyor system allowing more units per hour and avoiding the need to expand the facility. This technology, as most others, will follow the money. Deploying ubiquitous readers and managing the crushing volume of data they will generate is hugely expensive and will generate no revenue.

      BTW, software that turns this flood of duplicative, often erroneous data and can do something useful with it is "where it's at." SamSys, who makes some great readers is just about bankrupt and laying off hundreds of employees this week or next -- who I'm hoping to snap up to help us on the software/integration/implementation side. It's HARD finding enough people who can do more than just spell "RFID".

    2. Re:Readers are where its at by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      I understand there are physics issues but I cant help but think there's a bit of unsinkable-ship thinking going on here. Remember Blue-only-a-few-feet-Tooth and Blue-tooth snipers? There might not be a direct way of doing it like turning the power up but if there any possibility then someone will find it. I was thinking along the lines of multiple detectors in different positions that could maybe pickup the same signal and work together to analyse it to really stretch the S/N limit, then there's the possibility of better tags being manufactured (better materials etc) that are more efficient with the limited power they get. Also there might be laws limiting transmitter power but laws can be broken or changed, im sure you could expect to see illegally powerful readers in the hands of high-tech RFID pick-pockets. There's also the tried and tested social engineering, and failing everything else just make sure you get the receiver as close as possible.

      And as for cost look at the incredible evolution of mobile phones in the last 10 years, we've gone from clunky, expensive, power-hungry poor performers to DSP witchcraft in a box that seems to work whatever you do. All that's needed is something that everyday people will need receivers for and the market will take care of the rest.

      There are so many potential security risks involved with miniature tags that respond to radio its just inevitable that some successful ones will emerge. How about leaving RFID stickers face down on the floor and letting them stick to peoples shoes?

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
    3. Re:Readers are where its at by $ASANY · · Score: 1
      In industry we try to overcome these very obstacles on a regular basis because there's a huge profit incentive to do so. Increasing power doesn't usually help the signal reflected back from the tag to be more powerful very much, and at some point you drown out the return signal with this approach. Intermec tried to do this with their mobile readers, and they still perform poorly. Multiple antenna/readers help improve coverage, but they don't make a poor signal into a better one. Now tags have remarkably improved over the past few years, and I do see quality improvements making a difference, but they'll probably not overcome debilitating interference and environmental problems.

      But let's say they finally arrive at passive tag nirvana, of a $0.05 900MHx passive tag that trumps reasonable interference, doesn't fail regularly, and can be read with a $15 antenna/reader combo from 20 feet. What are they going to obtain with a read?

      Example: SGTIN-96 encoding format
      * Header = 0011 0000 (8 bits)
      * Filter Value (3 bits) = 001 is retail item
      * Partition (3 bits)
      * EAN.UCC Company Prefix (20-40 bits)
      * Item Reference (24-4 bits)
      * Serial Number (36 bits)

      I don't see any field for SSN, Phone number, or customer name. It will only interoperate with other systems if the company is an EPCglobal member (HUGE membership costs) and uses a registered company prefix. The Item Reference is assigned locally, so you have to have access to the EPCglobal network to figure out what the heck the item is, and the serial number is a dumb number with no embedded intelligence.

      Now if you go off on your own and encode a tag in "Joe's Peculiar Format" or whatever, nobody else will be able to understand what it is, or worse yet, they might interpret it as something it is not. UPC barcodes provide more easily deriveable intelliegence within them than a typical RFID encoding format.

      It gets worse. These are EPC encodings, which are ISO. There's also weigand encoding (in active and active-passive), used in asset tracking. That is typically a 24 bit value with no construct or consistency at all. You get a number that could mean anything, and that number is likely duplicated by someone else using weigand tags, so each tag is only uniqie within the enterprise that encoded it (as long as they're being careful, which isn't always the case). Then there's DoD encodings, which frequently change and have no meaning outside of the Department of Defense.

      I walked across the hall, took an Avery-Denison squiggle tag and taped it to the bottom of my shoe for you. We couldn't read it at all with a Symbol MC9000 handheld, and that's a GREAT reader. The tag orientation was all wrong. I walked around the office and then peeled it off, set it up so the orientation was correct, and it was dead. Walking on the chip destroyed it. So in my little test for you (I'm billing you $0.23 for materials expenses ;) ) it seems like this would be a completely ineffective means of attaching an RFID tag to a person.

      I think you're safe.

    4. Re:Readers are where its at by t_allardyce · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the test, where can I send the cheque? :P

      I know the tag just stores a number for a database ID but there's still potential - you can tell for sure if you read the same tag twice, it doesn't matter what the tag is it could be anything that happens to be on a person, you could even use multiple tags just in-case they dropped one. You just need receivers in the right places or access to other peoples receivers either through collaboration or other means. We also know how securely most databases are kept...

      --
      This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  41. Re:Google House - I'd buy one! by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

    It wouldn't work. By then, Orwell would be spinning around so fast that the EM field from his gravesite would jam all radio frequency bands.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
  42. Privacy issues? by Bazzalisk · · Score: 1

    Oh no, short-ranged RFID recievers could be used to follow people around! like ... you know ... cameras, and car license plates, and the friggin' human eyeball. There are plenty of very real "civil rights" issues to take up, so why do the civil liberties groups waste so much of their time and effort crowing about some imagined concept of "privacy"?

    --
    James P. Barrett
  43. linguistic 'errors' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Haha, just caught during the preview that I misunderstood your entire statement because of an its/it's error (cf. the CmdrTaco PMS debaucle yesterday). (PMS here being used colloquially, and without subconscious desire to keep women from posts in government and of importance.)

    Here's what I wrote in reply to my understanding of your grammatically incorrect post:

    **

    To call it misuse is moronic. It's a word that's been with us for thousands of years, and that at a time wouldn't have had a written definition, but would have been an intuitive and implicit sort of thing.

    The Swedes, to celebrate someone, may shout "Ett fyrfaldigt leve" ("A four-fold cheer*"). They then shout "Hurra!" ("Hooray") four times. "Fyrfaldigt" could be replaced with "Trefaldigt", and they would shout three times. (Not sixteen and eight, respectively.) -faldigt here means fold.

    This in itself constitutes no unrefutable proof against your strong belief that this is a wrong usage of the word. I would just like to point out that languages change over time, and that frozen expressions are just frozen forms of ordinary language. Even today, who's to say that the fold in fourfold should mean the number of flat sections in what's folded? Good question to ask oneself in these matters of linguistic precision: "Do I define it this way so I can be right and others wrong?"

    *) "cheer" is not the correct translation, as "leve" in this context would be a contraction of "må han leva" ("may he live"), må/may being a formulaic subjunctive expressing a desire for the rest of the sentence to happen.

  44. Build a RFID-Zapper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  45. Lose privacy we will by anandsr · · Score: 1

    We will lose privacy anyway. Its also information and it will get out when there is enough technology. The good thing is that the tracking technology will also get cheaper which will make the authorities without privacy. We will have the most open government not when the government will open themselves to you, but when they cannot hide from you. You may think that the government is more powerful than the people, but the people have more eyes and given enough eyes and enough interest no secret will be a secret as technology improves. You don't need the tinfoil hat the government will need it.

  46. RFID detection by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone know of a generic RFID-detector device? Perhaps this might be a good idea to
    sell, so that one could sweep belongings and RFID-Zap the ones that don't need RFID after purchase.

  47. One step by catahoula10 · · Score: 1

    RFID has obvious privacy flaws, why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?" Destiny.

    --
    This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
    Catahoula!
  48. The report.... by mnemotronic · · Score: 1

    The report from In-state (table of contents) costs $3k. And they don't accept Paypal.

    --
    The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
  49. That sacks... by antic · · Score: 1

    Without RFID, your situation would just completely sack.

    Sorry!

    --
    'Thats they exact same thing a banana wrench monkey.'
  50. Exactly! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amen Brother! How about these leeches get off their lazy backsides and do something useful for the U.S. of A., like corrupting politicians! Seems to be a few openings for those positions coming up. Now get to work you lazy bums!!!

  51. RFID and Privacy by Philodoxx · · Score: 1

    In the scope of modern technologies, I fail to grap how RFID is going to impact our privacy any more than other things we currently use almost daily (credit cards, air miles, debit... ). RFID tags generally store a number, that's it. An RFID reader reading that number has absolutely not idea what that number signifies without access to some kind of back end database.

    The idea that RFID id will allow some kind of brand new breakthrough in how stores track you is absurd for a few reasons. First off, they can already track what you buy by doing something like linking a hash of your credit card number with every purchase you've ever made. The second idea brought up is they would be able to track how you use that product (which is equally absurd). RFID readers for passive tags have a high read rate up to about 10 feet. So then is an open-ish concept store going to blanket it's 10000 sq. ft. floor space with $3000 RFID readers? The ROI for that kind of a system is pathetically low. Not to mention that to get these decent reads the passive tag has to be about the size of a credit card.

    People bring up that there are passive RFID tags that are so small that they could be embedded in just about anything. This is true, but I counter with the fact that the read range on these passive tags is a few millimetres-centimetres. So if you a product with these hidden RFID tags, businesses won't be able to get even the unique ID unless they're basically rubbing it with an antenna. Doubt me? Think about physics for a second. A common frequency for RFID is ~900MHz; antennas tend to read the best at either 1/4 wavelength, or 5/8 wavelength. We'll go with 1/4 since it will allow the smallest antenna. 1/4 wavelength for 900MHz is 8 metres. Passive tag antennas are much shorter than this, so they don't do the best job of radiating power back. A millimetre tag will do a much much much worse job at it, infact it will mostly just be seen as interference by the signal.

    Secondly, in response to privacy concerns the EPC has put into its RFID Gen 2 spec that tags can be self destructing. What's the big concern since the tag will be able to destroy itself as soon as you leave the store?

    --
    Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
    1. Re:RFID and Privacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "1/4 wavelength for 900MHz is 8 metres"

      Actually it is 8.33 cm (3*10^8/900*10^6)/4...

    2. Re:RFID and Privacy by Philodoxx · · Score: 1

      Whoops, I was doing this on windows' calculator and did 9*10^6 instead of 900*10^6 (I thought something didn't look right). My point still stands that a millimetre antenna is going to do a very poor job of propagating a 900MHz signal.

      --
      Oh, a lesson in history from Mr. I'm my own grandpa.
  52. Why? by microcars · · Score: 1
    "...why is the world pointed in the direction of RFID?

    for the same reason manufacturing is moving to China: WAL-MART

    ASFAIK- Wal-Mart is the primary push behind RFID and they making suppliers foot the bill.
    It starts out with an RFID tag on each Pallet, once that works out
    Then it moves to an RFID tag on each Box, once that works out
    Then it moves to an RFID tag on each ITEM

    As others have pointed out, the goal is to make inventory more efficient, but as a multi-millionaire business owner friend of mine pointed out to me, the PRIMARY goal for Wal-Mart is to Eliminate Jobs.

    Anyone who has read Fast Food Nation knows this is also the goal behind places like McDonalds.
    If they could just be giant vending machines, they would.

    --
    I like microcars
  53. Please count by LINM · · Score: 1

    There are about 6 billion people on earth.
    The forecast is for 33 B RFID tags made per year in 2010.

    Everyone's concern is that these tags are intended to be stuck on people - hence all the privacy concerns. Privacy this, privacy that. If these were being made for people that would be about 5 per person each year. After a few years, you would have one for each ear, two piercing your nose and several taped to your side.

    The actual use will be driven by retailers and logistics companies (ok really just Walmart). They will help track the flow of products through their supply chains and hence further reduce costs. Nothing to be afraid of and not a privacy issue.

    For privacy you can worry more about:
    a- cell phones
    b- cookies
    c- sniffers
    d- surveillance cameras
    e- wire tapping
    f- e-cash
    g- all of your credit cards

    The easiest solution is to buy some Antarctic property and wait for global warming to kick in.

    --

    Hunger is the best sauce.

  54. Does anyone care to propose a solution? by RobinH · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Does anyone care to propose a solution? How about this:

    Limit RFID technology implanted in commercially available goods to a read distance of, say, 12 inches, and a mandatory lifespan of tags to 6 months, *or* require that tags be removed or disabled when the transaction is complete. The industry still gets useful technology, and we get our privacy.

    --
    "I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
  55. or Maybe not by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Much of the RFID hype is based on the demands of Walmart and to a lesser extent Target and Albertsons. When the mandates first hit the industry there were vendors springing up everywhere "educating" manufacturers about this revolutionary technology. In the last 12-20 months that has changed alot. The initial RFID trials were quite disasterous with virtually all suppliers spending a minimal investment on a compliance-only solution. Suppliers did not buy into the "promise" of RFID. The manufacturers realize that RFID has no pay back other than staying in business with the big retailers. So they setup a conveyor with a RFID encode/apply machine on it and they break pallets down, RFID tag the cases, then repalletize just as the pallets go in the outbound trucks. Its termed "slap-and-ship" now. RFID cannot read internal cases on most pallet loads. It doesn't stand a chance if the product contains water or metal. 2-20% of all RFID tags are DOA. Even the big retailers have scaled back and slowed down their roll-outs. RFID will only be sucessful if big retailers force suppliers into compliance in a situation where there is no payback for the supplier. It just like the retailers telling suppliers to drop a quater in every case of goods that they purchase and by the way, we are not going to pay you any more for it.

  56. How do you capitize on RFID? by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    Aside from manufacturers, who is going to making money with RFID, and how?

    I see very little demand for RFID consulting, will that change?

    CompTIA has a new RFID+ certification. I can't see that be useful for anything more than a $15/hour installer.

    1. Re:How do you capitize on RFID? by anogee · · Score: 1

      > Aside from manufacturers, who is going to making money with RFID, and how? Hmmmm...How about drug manufacturers that currently lose up to have their revenue due to counterfeit products? The same with some clothing companies. How about insurance companies that have pushed for RFID in auto keys? If car theft is cut in half, you don't think anyone would profit? Or how about RFID tags in livestock to track and eliminate the spread of livestock diseases, so things like mad cow disease can be tracked and the meat taken out of the food supply. Do you need more? I can continue.

  57. we're already there by mkcmkc · · Score: 1
    *IF* the article discussed governments planning to RFID tag humans behind the left ear, then, perhaps, we would have a major issue.
    Actually, such an embedded tag would be less informative for spying/tracking purposes than the current future scenario, which is that we will all be carrying around a virtual blizzard of tags in our everyday items. One embedded tag would be easy to spoof/kill/fake/etc., whereas the blizzard is a mark practically impossible to alter.

    Whether this is a major issue is for you to decide, but don't kid yourself--as this becomes more ubiquitous, you'll be lit up like a Christmas tree, 24x7x365...

    --
    "Not an actor, but he plays one on TV."
  58. Can eliminating jobs make business more efficient? by walterbyrd · · Score: 0


    Let's suppose you own a small company, you have 10 employees. A new technology comes that will cost you $2000 a year, and will eliminate the need for two of your employees; and save you $80K a year. Do you use that technology?

    IMO: you would be a fool not to. If you don't use that technology, you can better believe your competitors will. And those competitors will operate more efficiently, and thereby put you right out of business - thereby eliminating the jobs for all of your employees - and you too.

  59. Does Wal Mart use these now? by GregNorc · · Score: 0

    I remember reading an article here a while back that Wal-Mart was testing use of RFID tags in some stores? Is this a nationwide thing now?

  60. Re:Can eliminating jobs make business more efficie by microcars · · Score: 1
    actually the analogy is more like this:

    Let's suppose you own a small company, you have 10 employees.
    Wal-Mart is a major source of your income and they demand you start using a new technology (like RFID...), but you have to pay all the R&D costs for implementing this technology AND you can't pass the costs on to your customers in the form of slightly higher prices.
    (Wal-Mart makes you LOWER prices each year, you can't raise them or you don't do business with them...)

    Your competitors that can afford to absorb the cost will do so, those that cannot may have to close up shop.

    Or, instead of closing shop you may end up eliminating 2 employees simply to stay open.
    Net gain for the small business: -2 employees, no extra income

    Implementing RFID is saving WAL-MART money and allowing WAL-MART to eliminate jobs.
    They call the shots now, not the suppliers.

    I don't disagree with your comments about using technology to make money while eliminating jobs, its just that the market has changed now. The tail wags the dog.

    --
    I like microcars
  61. Are you paying attention? by Grendel+Drago · · Score: 1

    Are you even paying attention? My MAC address is not inherently connected to my name or identity by a massive process such as the Wal-Mart receipt and credit/debit card database. My MAC address is not readably by the nearest lamppost as I walk down the street. My MAC address isn't even readable by anyone who's not on my local network segment.

    How is this in any fashion comparable?

    --
    Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
  62. If they wanted to, they already could. by ElpDragon · · Score: 1

    Cash is already trackable: http://www.wheresgeorge.com.

    All U.S. bills have serial numbers; I imagine Euro notes do as well. On U.S. bills, they're printed prominently in bright green type with nothing* behind them. Looks pretty OCR-friendly to me. You wouldn't even need any extra time -- a scanner-equipped ATM could scan each bill's serial number as it dispensed it.

    RFID in cash should not be a primary target in the battle for privacy.

    (* Well, actually, the newer-style U.S. $10 and up do have an image behind the serial number, and so do euro notes, but since the image is relatively faint, and is the same on each bill, it should be a minor hurdle. More troublesome would be old, worn-out bills.)