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Supermarket VOIP
chuckT writes "Tesco, the UK's largest supermarket chain, has announced plans to sell a VOIP handset and connection through their stores. Given that one out of every eight pounds, spent on shopping in the UK goes to Tesco, and the UK has one of the highest broadband takeup rates around, is this the end for the classic telecoms providers like BT?"
The end for BT? If only...
one out of every eight pounds,
Isn't the UK on the metric system? It sounds like Tesco should cut down on the amount of packaging it uses.
I once worked for a mobile cellular company; it had a product called Freedom Link that allowed business to setup an infrastructure that would relay on sight traffic for one mobile device to another. That was squashed a few years ago forcing you to go through their lines and pay the minutes that way. If you knew how simple these devices were, you wouldn't be paying any cell phone bills ever again. If everyone built the wireless router to have frequency hoping characteristics and CDMA tagging then the current cellular structure would fall apart. Everyone could setup a mini mobile switching station and calls would be nearly free for everyone. The only thing that would have to change is a master area frequency delegation computer would have to be setup to control all the frequency hopping but I believe that a really smart device could be built to be self-aware of the spectrum usage.
Can you imagine in 15 years that cellular as we know it could change to something similar that VOIP did to long distance. It is just a matter of time when some young engineering student topples a big portion of the cellular stranglehold.
The BT service offers free calls to UK landlines at evenings and weekends, at a cost of £4.99 a month
This is totally kick-ass! Where else can you pay £4.99 to make free calls?
NOWHERE! That's where!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
Of course, Tesco are likely just re-selling somebody else's network like most other VoIP players seem to do. So far they do Insurance, Tellys, Voice and banking services.. They will be operating small brothels next..
I'm sure there are many disgruntled BT customers that hope so.
VOIP has many problems, e.g. unlike regular telephones on regular telephone lines, they do not work during power cuts. They can also cause problems when being used for emergency calls, as the location of the person cannot be traced easily (if at all.) Until the problems are sorted out, I don't think people will be jumping onto VOIP phones.
Unless there is a wireless grid the users of voip will still be dependent on the cables coming into their house. Those cables for the most part are owned by the telco/cable companies. It's not really an end to the Telco's it is more of a transition of services offered.
I'm a big fan of VoIP (I've moved many friends and family to various companies). I can't wait until there are more programs available to let me use my PDA-bluetooth-tether-cell combo (150kbps download nearly everywhere) to talk without the cell network. I believe T-Mobile will actually help transition their users to VoIP as they build a faster network (and make their money that way).
The big problem I have with VoIP is it still seems to rely on people wanting to contact POTS numbers. When will we see a replacement for the old phone number?
The e-mail address isn't a bad idea, but I honestly don't want to share that with some people. A new number isn't memorable. Names are too generic and duplicated (there are 3 Adam Dada's that I've found in the past 3 years).
What is the solution for the "Follow Me" signature that we can use as our VoIP contact? Is the future settings up 3 or 4 addresses so we can give friends, family and tele-marketters different numbers?
well picked up, oh don't ya love those marketing geniuses :-) ... but this kind of makes sense in the UK, where we have to pay for all calls (does the USA still have free local calls?). UK consumers will get the "pay 4.99 and have free calls" because at the moment they pay BT a standing line charge and then pay for each call (time based charging) on top....
"It's not really an end to the Telco's it is more of a transition of services offered."
True, but it's amusing to see slashdot grasp for anything titled "How to escape from telco's", even if it's an illusion.
They lock down the hardware so that the market has lots of used VoIP hardware that is 100% useless. I can find gobs of Vonnage SIP phones on ebay for dirt but are locked to Vonnage.
I just wish these companies would be required to be friendlier and unlock the hardware after the "contract" is up.
Cellphone companies do thew same crap. I had to threaten to sue AT&T wireless because they locked my personal phone to their service. I purchased an unlocked phone myself used their service and their scumbag service rep locked my phone. these companies really need to learn what customer service is and that the customer's property needs to be released to them at the end of thwe contract.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Given that one out of every eight pounds, spent on shopping in the UK goes to Tesco
People in the UK exchange their fat for goods and services based on how much they weigh? Weird.
warning: kidding
BellTory?
Tesco receives one out of every eight pounds spent on "shopping" (how is "shopping" defined? Is it all commerce, all commerce minus Internet commerce, all commerce by individuals as opposd to corporate entities and associations...?) 12.5% of the entire British shopping budget? One quid for every eight spent in the ENTIRE FLIPPING COUNTRY?
Where is the outrage about this? Can you imagine the American equivalent? I can't imagine that even Wal*Mart, powerful as it is, gets one out of every eight bucks spent in the US... If they did, there would (I presume) be a lot more public outcry.
Then again, I strongly suspect that Microsoft makes at least 12.5% of the total profit earned by the entire computer industry (hardware + software + services), and they are still relatively un-protested (beyond grumbles about "the damned computer locked up again") in the US.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
None of the problems seen as particular to VOIP (in the sense of Vonage at home etc) actually are and, besides, in the corporate environment, it has been a done deal for years. I haven't seen a large office that wasn't using IP phones in some years.
POTS doesn't run on magic fairy dust, it requires electricity, but it is assumed to be well backed-up, although it still suffers problems of cut lines etc. In "real" emergencies like earthquakes and storms, POTS goes out ALL THE TIME. How about the growing tide of wireless-only people? 911 problems are the same, towers go out, etc. With VOIP, you're running over POTS or cable. If YOU have a backup power system, much as is required on the provider end, there's little if any systemic difference in reliability--and really, most people no longer use telephones that run only on the power of the phone line itself, so while your telephone line may be just dandy, it doesn't do much good when the phone itself is dead.
Value for money is fantastic, but have you actually compared with POTS? I called a friend using Skype, then my internet connection died. So I picked up the phone and called back.
The lag in conversation was considerably smaller. The audio quality was a lot better. There were no dropouts. The audio never went crackly. It's a much better service, and the amount that people spend on ordinary landline calls these days is so small that the cost of broadband and equipment needed isn't worth the investment.
I doubt it.
For a start, Tesco's on-line systems to date have sucked. I subscribed to Tesco Downloads to get a legal music download I wanted, and the UI was so bad that having let me sign up with a particular e-mail address, I then couldn't log in using it because it was a character too long for the field on the web form! I tried to contact them, but... there were no contact details, anywhere, and mails to webmaster at both the Tesco Downloads and the main Tesco site went unanswered. This doesn't exactly make me want to try relying on their VOIP system.
In addition to Tesco's apparent incompetence, BT (or the cable companies, depending on who you're with) still make a significant amount of money from those broadband subscribers. I hardly use my landline any more, but I still have to cough up several quid a month for BT line rental so that my broadband ISP and I can communicate. The actual cost of my calls on BT represents around 0.1% of the money I pay them, since they've been offering calls-for-almost-nothing for months anyway.
In other words, BT are now effectively an infrastructure company and not a services company, and their own phone service is almost free. Why do I need VOIP again?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
If a grocery store starts selling VoIP hardware, that surely means that it's a commodity. Commoditization means that consumers will choose services based on prices first and features later (think bargain-basement $399 PCs from Dell or Wal-Mart). Commoditization means that there are products that are "good enough", and the winning suppliers will win on best value and lowest price.
It's time enough for the telcos and other lumbering pseudo-government regulatory-era dinosaurs to shape up and actually compete for consumers or die.
"We can categorically state that we have not released man-eating badgers into the area." - Major Mike Shearer, UK
I've got a $25 UPS which keeps my microwave modem, router and VoIP running. I then have a cordless base station that has battery backup. All in all i can keep calling and surfing for about 45 minutes when the power dies.
I suspect most of the energy probably goes on keeping the microwave link up, but it's still a pretty decent solution for me.
Next? I've been f**ked six times in the last month! Their swanky new DIY tills don't seem to understand what special offers are, nor to be able to count change accurately...
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
And who do you suppose would terminate those calls for the next forever if BT ceased to exist tomorrow?
I would totally sign up for a VoiP phone service. The downside is that in California, none of the providers offer local phone numbers in the Valley. They are all in the bay area. Oh well, guess I will stick to my cell phone for the time being.
Click Click Bloody Click PANCAKES!
And you suck.
- Tesco Vee
Oh, yeah, my Tesco has:
Buy 3 CDs for £12!!!!
(all the CDs cost under £4 on their own)
I've had to put up with the DIY tills for a year or two now. They finally work most of the time now. Haven't had issues with special offers though.
Actually, how is VoIP doing since people are dropping landlines for cell service? And since 911 is still only fully supported on POTS? Is it business environment only? Is a company like Vonage overrated / unnecessary?
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Telecomms provide most of the interconnection lines used by Internet users... They may have to decide who and where they will start making their money, which may move from subscribers to the Service providers (i.e. ISPs, VoIP-to-POTS providers, Wireless MAN-to-Wireless MAN connectivity). basically anyone who needs to travel long distances will need to traverse their networks and you can believe that if they are losing end-user subscribers they will begin to collect closer to the network core.
Tesco is great and everything but, do they sell both Micro&soft and Linux side by side like Walmart does?
VOIP has many problems, e.g. unlike regular telephones on regular telephone lines, they do not work during power cuts.
Neither does anything else in the house.
Except candles and books... Oh and a cell phone.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
The end of BT? Errr... who owns the majority of the cables Tesco is using. (hint. take the letters T and B and rearrange them)
No Its not. Even tough Tesco offers broadband, They are just reselling BTs service. Most of the UK is covered by BT DSL service, and there aren't many other options. Cable internet is almost non-existent. There are some alternatives but few have any noteable penetration. Point being, BT isn't going anywhere.
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
Oops, sorry - wrong website.
>Actually, how is VoIP doing since people are dropping landlines for cell service?
I dropped landline in favor of Cell a while back. I just didn't like the principle of paying twice for the same service. Especially getting taxed twice for it (two 911 fees, etc.)
But the fact is, a cell phone for my wife and I on the Verizon Family Plan costs us right at $80/month. With the price of gasoline what it is now, plus we just had a baby, I'm looking to cut corners everywhere I can.
So now I'm ditching our cell phones for Vonage, which we have had for a couple of months now. Quality is not quite as good as POTS yet (but is easily as good as my cells have every been), but it's good enough. And it's only $27/month for unlimited calls anywhere in the US. I couldn't get a local phone number, but all of our friends are in Atlanta anyway, so I got a 404 number which was a bonus as now they can call us for free.
I've gotten really used to the convenience of having a phone always available, and maybe I'll miss it, but for two things:
First, it really hasn't been all that long that I've had a cell phone. Only 5 or 6 years. I didn't suffer terribly for the lack of one before that.
Secondly, I have recently found out that in the US, all cell phones must be able to dial 911 whether you have cell service or not. I checked this with a couple of "dead" Cingular phones we have laying around, and it works fine. I have also recently found out that you can get your phone reprogrammed (wish I could figure out how to do it myself) so that it will automatically dial into the American Roaming Network and allow you to place credit card calls, even if you do not have cell service. Sure, it costs $3/minute, but I will only use it in emergencies.
So I'm dropping cellular in favor of a landlocked VOIP phone.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
In Canada, Superstore/Loblaws/Extra Foods (same company, different store names) has recently started selling pay-as-you-go mobile service. They already offer banking and insurance services and have done so for several years.
Given this trend, I would not be at all surprised if they started selling VOIP service, amongst other things, in the near future.
I have to say Tesco are pure pure evil, but they are bloody useful, I had an old supermarket near me it was overpriced, crap quality and only open at traditional business hours, it shut down and was replaced by a tesco - cheap, everything you could imagine under one small roof, always open, always full of people, but I guess thats how the market works, if your business is old and bloated *cough* BT you're going to loose out, personally i find all telecoms companies here are overpriced and have crap service, my old mobile company cost me prices comparable with a satelite call! and 3G drops connections so much its like trying to talk through old-time radio. I think its going to be sad but necessary to take these big telecoms companies round the back and put a bullet in them, sad because there will be potentially so many redundancies but necessary because the world is moving on people now expect to be able to communicate anywhere with anyone for next to nothing. Companies like BT should know better I mean how long did it take for un-metered dial-up to appear? Why have we been using the same old system of analogue phones sampled at local exchanges when we could have pioneered and switched to an entirely digital phone system years ago thus saving allot of hassle and making high-speed net access built in? BT is big on research and they have failed to significantly change the way they do business, therefore they are going to go out of business.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Walmart gets pretty much ALL my money spent at retail. And with a family of 6, we spend a lot.
Not saying I'm happy about it, but can't make the paycheck stretch as far anyplace else.
But Newegg gets my computer equipment expenditures...
Two points about UPSs:
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
So as far as he's concerned Tesco gave him a free microwave oven.
Of course I hope that I'd notice an extra 70 pounds or so on my bill but he was in a hurry...
I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
This being Tesco, every time you make a call, you'll be asked "Do you have a clubcard?"
This is thinly veiled Skype. They even have a similar pricing model.
They offer no Quailty of Service, as any decent provider would offer.
But what if the ISPs run by both the local telco and the local cable company block quality of service, and no competing DSL ISPs find your location viable because of the prohibitive rates that the local telco charges for use of its last mile?
No.
one out of every eight pounds
You mean 3.53 out of every 14.12 dollars?
Yes, there are (small) signs by the tills saying that if they charge you the wrong price for anything, they refund your payment and you keep the item. Your friend expected to buy a microwave for 70 pounds, but walked out of the store having paid 140 pounds for it. Full refund.
Small quibble with their self-service tills though. If you select to pay by credit/debit card, then swipe a Tesco credit card (the one that doubles as a ClubCard), the till treats it as a ClubCard only (i.e. just takes your ID, not payment) and dumps you back at the select-payment-method screen. No display of "Thanks for the ClubCard, now please pay" or anything. So you think your payment failed, and are averse to swiping again, until the assistant promise promise promises you that no payment is taken unless you get a receipt.
Mum = mom, but spelt, well, correctly.
I often wonder at the remarkable leaps that historians put on record. How for example, would a repeat failure of one crop kill a largely agrarian population when other crops are not also affected?
Did it affect fish, wheat, oats, mutton, beef, turnips, parsnips, carrots etc etc?
Why would the American colonists react to the price of tea when they could get alternatives locally for free? In fact I dare say that if they were interested enough in the product, they could grow camelias (or whatever they used in those days) locally.
I dare say one day there will be historians analysing the Microsoft vs Linux wars or DRM controversy, with perfectly obvious explanations that wouldn't be comprehensible to any of us if we were around to argue the toss.
Taken from http://www.theage.com.au/news/Business/UK-Tesco-to -take-stake-in-Freshtel/2005/12/29/1135732686987.h tml
"Freshtel will provide the network, infrastructure and billing information for the retailer.
It will earn per user licence fees and margins on all calls to a landline or mobile.
Tesco will also pay maintenance fees and Freshtel will earn additional royalties on all hardware purchased by Tesco from Freshtel's manufacturing partners."
Just choose another carrier.
http://www.uswitch.com/
Same old phone, line and number but all your calls go via another carrier who do all the hard work for you.
e.g. Justdial.
http://www.just-dial.com/
Free evening and weekend calls but no extra flat rate charge and only 2p/min for daytime calls and you don't have to buy any special hardware or install software on a PC or anything.
Deleted
The comment was preceded by "during EARTHQUAKES AND STORMS." If you lose connection for ten seconds on an average tuesday due to some network issue, your chances of being inconvenienced are pretty slim. If the telephone lines are snapped in an ice storm, that's probably a tad more inconvenient.