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Feds Asked to Take Action Against Adware Creator

Posted by ScuttleMonkey on from the paging-big-brother dept.

An anonymous reader writes "CNet is reporting that a consumer watchdog group has asked the Federal Trade Commission to take action against 180solutions and CJB.net for unfair and deceptive business practices. The Center for Democracy and Technology submitted over 150 pages of examples of 180s bad practices." From the article: "180Solutions deliberately and repeatedly duped Internet users into downloading intrusive advertising software, according to a Center for Democracy and Technology complaint (download PDF). The company continued these practices even after it pledged to better itself and after receiving warnings from spyware experts and privacy advocates, the group said."

57 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. and it won't matter... by flakier · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...because they will say something like it was their "partners" that engaged in the deceptive practices. Then they will say that they will watch their partners more closely in the future.

    --
    --
    1. Re:and it won't matter... by StupidHelpDeskGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes, because the folks in Washington never change their mind. Especially if their chances for relection are hindered. It will matter eventually, we just have to keep fighting.

    2. Re:and it won't matter... by mordors9 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      it won't matter because their is no public outcry yet at this point. Most non-Slashdot computer users seem to look at it as part of life. Nor are any of the corporate interests flexing their muscles to get the government hopping.

    3. Re:and it won't matter... by lymond01 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's no public outcry because 90% of users don't know what's actually happening. "Oh, I hate these darn ads!" they'll say, but they don't know why they are there or that they can easily get rid of them. I am constantly amazed by the level of computer knowledge people demonstrate, despite the fact they are parked in front of one 8-10 hours per day. In fact, a good PhD Engineering friend of mine IMs me and asks if the web server is down, he wanted to look up someone's address on the site directory. I told him yes it was down and gave him the email address. He then asks: "Well, if the website is down, can I still email them?"

      People are learning, I'll admit, but even "saavy" users don't really know much about spyware, adware, viruses, hijacking, firewalls, etc. Have they heard of them? Maybe. But they don't really know how to deal with them or even what to look for.

    4. Re:and it won't matter... by halcyon1234 · · Score: 5, Interesting
      it won't matter because their is no public outcry yet at this point. Most non-Slashdot computer users seem to look at it as part of life. Nor are any of the corporate interests flexing their muscles to get the government hopping.

      Actually, it won't matter because even though we (tech savy, anti-malware consumers) are the vast majority of the marketplace, we are the vast minority of Crapware 180's "customers".

      What power do we really have? A boycott won't work. None of us buy thier "products" anyways. The Malware makers income is all based on being paid by shady or downright illegal companies for advertisments. And all of those companies rely on uninfomred (read: stupid) people seeing those ads and responding to them. It may not be many people, but it's enough to make a profit. (After all, when you're either a) selling snake oil or b) stealing people's money/credit card numbers/identity/whatever, only a few suckers are needed to make a profit).

      So we can't do any economical harm to them through the usual methods. We can't boycott products, or refuse to shop at the advertised merchants. And even if one or two of those merchants get nailed/go bankrupt/whatever, there will be 500 more right behind them, all waiting to get their share of the sucker pie.

      Corporations aren't going to do anything about it, either. None of the "merchants" are their direct competators. Those corps are focusing on "ligitamate" consumers (ie: us). They don't see Crapware 180 as a competator. They may see it as a minor nusicence to their own networks. But keep in mind that there are SEVERAL corporations who's business model depends on the existence of black hat advertisers. (After all, with no spyware infested computers, there's no way to see spyware removal programs/services...).

      So the government can try to step in and blow up Crapware 180, or any of their ilk, but it'll only go so far. Most of those companies have gone to great lengths to (just barely) stay within the letter of the law (or at least, snuggled safely in a nest of loopholes). Any action they can try to take would get tied up for years, if not decades, in the courts. Crapware 180 will make enough money to survive the legal actions. And, in the worst case, they can fold and secretly/illegaly shuffle their money away, only to pop up again as another company.

      Personally, I still think that a user supported massive attack on the spyware companies will do any good. Something like the Make Love Not Spam screensaver from a year or so ago. Either DDoS the servers to hell (of the merchants or the adware provider, whichever), or some form of massive "click fraud" type attack against the merchants to make it too expensive to operate. (No profit = no companies).

      --
      UTF-8: There and Back Again
    5. Re:and it won't matter... by jonbryce · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You could boycot the companies that advertise on their software, if they are the sort of mainstream companies you might buy from otherwise.

  2. Only one? by catahoula10 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What about the rest of them.

    --
    This has been another valuable and informative opinion from:
    Catahoula!
    1. Re:Only one? by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 2, Funny

      deliberately and repeatedly duped Internet users into downloading intrusive advertising software....(download PDF)

      Oh, the irony. Acrobat Reader must be the most resource-hungry bloatware I've ever come across, and it displays ads, and has been used as spyware...

  3. And not always duped... by DaHat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The one and only time I've ever had a PC of mine hijacked was because of 180solutions under IE7 and XPSP2 a few months back... I browsed to a site related to them and a moment later I had several new icons next to my clock and plenty of pop up ads saying hello.

    Never before and never since had I ever had this happen... and it did make me a believer that a system could be hijacked without the user doing anything more than navigating to an HTTP url.

    --
    Help Brendan pay off his student loans
    1. Re:And not always duped... by eikonos · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's Microsoft innovation in action! ;)

    2. Re:And not always duped... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      it did make me a believer that a system could be hijacked without the user doing anything more than navigating to an HTTP url

      That depends heavily on what program you are using to browse to the respective HTTP url. Your problem was not that you are simply "browsing to a url", the specific problem is that you are "using IE to open a url". IE leaves itself wide open to attack for a variety of reasons, I've been browsing almost exclusively with Opera for the last few years (a little Firefox as well), and I haven't had any issues at all (read: not even one). I don't run a virus scanner, my biannual spyware inspections only turn up various cookies, and I haven't had an infection in years. I also browse some pretty disreputable sites with impunity, the difference between me and the average user is that I take specific precautions with my browsing habits (i.e., I don't use IE, on any computer, except to test sites).

    3. Re:And not always duped... by spoco2 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I don't run a virus scanner

      I'm sorry... but I will laugh if one day your pc is taken down by a virus... Why not run a free one like AVG? It'll make you feel all warm and cosy inside... if just for the fact that it comes up clean in its checks.

    4. Re:And not always duped... by legallyillegal · · Score: 2, Informative
      and i'll laugh the day your AVG fails 22% of the time ... which is today

      and I don't run a realtime scanner either.

      --
      ?giS
    5. Re:And not always duped... by springbox · · Score: 2, Informative
      The one and only time I've ever had a PC of mine hijacked was because of 180solutions under IE7 and XPSP2 a few months back... I browsed to a site related to them and a moment later I had several new icons next to my clock and plenty of pop up ads saying hello.

      The only reason this is a problem is because of the type of user that these companies are exploiting. You're running IE that doesn't appear to be locked down in any way on an account with administrator privileges. Basically any ActiveX app (most likely) not only has the flexibility to do basically whatever, but nothing is stopping it from tearing apart your system since it's also running with administrator privileges.

      Don't feel too bad though, back in the days of Windows 98 I had some InstallShield app pop up through Internet Explorer and install some intrusive application without any warning.

      Just because Microsoft gives your account admin access by default (WinXP) doesn't mean you can't do anything to protect yourself. You should take some time to lock down your system if you don't want another infection. No more admin level access to your every day account, etc. Unfourtnately, because your type of setup is so common unscrupulous companies will take advantage of it. (See also: SONY)

    6. Re:And not always duped... by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Its been a long time since i've used a virus scanner at home, and I'll tell you why:

      1. They can only find known virii. Maybe being 'protected' from tens of thousands of viruses comforts you, but I'm worried about the few no one knows about yet, and AV software provides no protection against those.
      2. They are only partially sucsessfull in removing virii. How many times have you seen "Delete Failed! click here for more info"? I've seen it a few times too many. I SHOULD NEVER EVER SEE THIS MESSAGE! This is a design failure.
      3. AV software is not effective as a means of prevention. Virii come in two flavors-- trojans and worms. Trojan==idiot user clicked on BrittneySpearsNaked.jpg.exe; AV cannot prevent this. Worm==windows security issue; AV cannot prevent this. This is an over-simplification, and may not be 100% technically accurate, but you get the picture.
      4. (sum of points 2 and 3) If AV software can't prevent infection, and if it sometimes can't even remove the infection, what good is it again? Its good for Symantec, its good for Macafee, and its good for IT professionals who get to say "its not my fault, I did everything i could to prevent it" next time a code red happens.

      --
      "Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
    7. Re:And not always duped... by Zarel · · Score: 2, Informative

      The recent WMF vulnerability affects every application that uses the Windows libraries for displaying images, which includes IE7. I'm guessing that's what caused it.

      --
      Want a high quality FOSS RTS game? Try Warzone 2100!
    8. Re:And not always duped... by afidel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's possible but extremely frustrating. All of my users run the majority of their software off our central Citrix servers. They run as unprivlidged users. Whenever we get a new app from some clueless software company we have to educate them in basic security practices and let them know that "Just run it as an administrator" isn't an acceptable solution. Hell I had to pull teeth and call back 3 times and ask for a supervisor before Intuit would even TRY to give me a list of the registry keys that a non-power user would need to run Quickbooks ENTERPRISE 6.0! They finally gave them to me, which I later found out was compiled by a USER of the product and posted to an unofficial support board! The whole culture of Windows software development just sucks. The funny thing to me is NT actually has one of the BEST security mechanisms (policy based fine-grained ACL's) of about any common OS yet it basically goes unused because of lack of care on the part of all the lazy developers.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    9. Re:And not always duped... by sremick · · Score: 2, Informative

      1) So what? Most people get infected by a very small subset of the huge number of known viruses antivirus software protects you against. It is an elite few who are so exposed that they are bound to get hit first by a new virus in the wild, so new the antivirus vendors haven't added a signature to their databases yet. Sure it happens once in a while, but SO WHAT? Meanwhile there are all these KNOWN ones out there EVERYWHERE that AV software CAN protect you against. It's like saying you won't take vaccines, since the flu vaccine won't protect you against HIV. Why not be protected against the flu anyway? Basically you're saying, "It only can help me 99% of the time, so since that's not 100% I don't even want that 99% of protection so I'll go without."

      2) I don't care if they are only "partially-successful" in salvaging the infected file. Especially since most are irreversibly-damaging anyhow and so there's nothing TO salvage. To me, the REAL success is getting the virus off my computer. If I lose a document or other datafile in the process, it's not the end of the world. At least the virus has been DETECTED, and REMOVED, and is no longer infecting files on my machine and others. How on earth is that a good reason to not run it anyway? Once again, you're denying yourself all the benefits that AV software DOES have since it's not perfect 100% of the time.

      3) First of all, virus != trojan. Secondly, most AV sofware DO detect the common trojans out there in the wild that you're likely to come across. And their on-demand scanning DOES catch those files in exactly the situation you describe. You're just plain wrong on this point. 0% technically accurate.

      4) AV software is good for the same reason we use seatbelts, surge-suppressors, and bullet-proof vests. They add a level of protection that covers a significant scope of what one is bound to experience that it's worth it. A seatbelt won't save you if a semi crashed down on top of you, but usually people just get into rear-enders. A surge-suppressor won't protect you if lightning hits the line 10' from your computer, but usually that's not the case and what you experience are normal surges well within its range of protection. A bullet-proof vest won't protect you against a RPG shot at your head, but they have saved many people from gunshots aimed at the torso which is the majority of what cops come up against, and you'd be hard-pressed to argue with a cop that he shouldn't bother wearing his/hers.

      And finally... "virii" is not a word, and horribly incorrect under all rules of Latin as a plural of "virus".

    10. Re:And not always duped... by TallMatthew · · Score: 2, Funny
      BrittneySpearsNaked.jpg.exe

      Do you know where I can download that? Rad!

    11. Re:And not always duped... by Nazadus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Ok, this isn't mean tto the buy above this comment, it's meant for the guy dealing in absolutes who isn't catching a clue. I went years without AV and was clean. How do I know? I bought TrendMicro (much is _much_ better than Norton and McAffe -- I know this becuase I've replaced those with TM on other machines and those machines run much better; TM is lean) and it said I was clean. I probably won't buy AV again. Unless I get a new job where I use my laptop for anything other than home stuff and working at work... (becuase I like having Natural Selection and HL2 :)) Now, back to your point: You can't prove to me that you are 100% clean either much like you can't goto the docter and have him write out something saying you are 100% ok without spending an insane amount of money doing lots of test; Unless of course, you can get Microsoft to verify everything you can via checksum *and* your 3rd party software from the makers themselves. If you want to be insane about this, you can't have your cake and eat it too. Bloodhound is _not_ 100% effective. I run Windows at work for my firewall (ISA Server) and it hasn't ever been hacked. No, I can't prove this, no I don't go dig through _every_ file on _every_ computer to prove this, but those with other firewalls don't do the same either. I have OpenBSD at home as a firewall... So the person who doesn't have obvious symptoms (AIDS) therefore must not be infected with HIV? And what, on Earth, will prevent this? A condom won't stop 100%. What if that condom breaks? What if...? What if...? Closing one's eyes doesn't make the problem go away. Back at ya. *kisses* Stop speaking bullshit and start talking practical; Only sith deal in absolutes. Thank you.

      --
      "Do or do not. There is no try." -- Master Yoda (Half man, half muppet)
  4. Stupid adware. by BigZaphod · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That stuff is evil. I think we should just submit them to a public stoning or something like that. Not only would it be more fun - they might actually consider not doing it again!

    --
    Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
    1. Re:Stupid adware. by StupidHelpDeskGuy · · Score: 2, Funny

      Public stoning? Why would we want to smoke them up?

    2. Re:Stupid adware. by Anonymous+Rockstar · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yes, people tend to stop doing stuff after being stoned.

      --

    3. Re:Stupid adware. by redheaded_stepchild · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps I'm the only one who sees this on a regular basis:
      When I uninstall 180Solutions based stuff from a clients computer, I get a little questionairre that I am required to fill out. Questions are usually closely related to "Why did you remove this software?", "What services would have made you keep this software?" and "What could we do in the future to better serve you?" The first two are followed by drop-down choices (none of which are even close to my desired answers) and the last is a text field. Now, I don't know about you guys, but if they had honored my request for a Remote-controlled Sniper Rifle auto-aimed at their CEO's head, I might have considered keeping the software. Oh well.

      --
      Don't use the Troll mod just because you disagree with me.
    4. Re:Stupid adware. by syzler · · Score: 2, Funny

      I think we should just submit them to a public stoning... they might actually consider not doing it again!

      Death tends to make people lethargic and unmotivated, as a result most do not repeat transgressions once they are dead.

    5. Re:Stupid adware. by holywarrior21c · · Score: 2, Funny

      it should be... public stoning, ironing, free torturing, raping, slicing, cuting, sawing, steaming, painting, drowning... YESSS!! i feel much better! - George W. Dr.Evil Bush -

    6. Re:Stupid adware. by thrillseeker · · Score: 2, Funny
      When I uninstall 180Solutions based stuff from a clients computer, I get a little questionairre that I am required to fill out.

      When people bring me an infected computer, I simply answer yes to the short-form questionairre: FORMAT C: (Y/N)?

  5. They had it coming by mikeswi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For the last two years, 180Solutions has been issuing press releases claiming that they are going to clean up their affiliates. Then an affiliate is caught installing trojans and sneaking onto computers without consent. Then 180Solutions issues a press release .....

    And round and round we go.

    If they spent 1/10 as much time actually controlling their affiliates as they do writing up press releases, maybe something might have been done.

    --
    Only on /.
  6. Advergaming The New Adware? by biocute · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What about Advergaming?

    If you buy a software, install in your computer and it's showing you ads when you're using the software, it may even retrieve new ads from a remote location, are we supposed to put up with that?

    --
    Virtual Betting on Facebook for non-geeks.
  7. Throw them in jail... by Number_5 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and massively fine anyone who advtises with them. My mom has called me in tears because she could not use her computer due to popups etc. The only way to end this problem is to fine the advertisers.

    1. Re:Throw them in jail... by adyus · · Score: 3, Funny


      ...won't somebody PLEASE think of the mothers?

      ;)

    2. Re:Throw them in jail... by toadlife · · Score: 2, Funny

      Some would say installing Linux on your mothers PC would make you an insensitive clod.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  8. 180 will always be right on the edge by putko · · Score: 5, Insightful

    180Solutions is always right on the line. They used to play really dirty, until it was illegal.

    Then they did the arms-length thing: blame the affiliates, but encourage them to break the law.

    I don't see how their behavior is any different from companies that mislead people as to what they are buying or signing (e.g. I'll give you a check for a dollar -- but it is also a contract that switches your long distance service to may carrier).

    Some people are stupid. Our laws assume that people are responsible and that if they sign a contract, that is them willingly singing a contract.

    I suspect the problem is that some people are so stupid that they aren't really responsible, and that is especially the case when it comes to computers running spyware.

    --
    http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/when_to_s tone_your_children/dt21_18a.html
    1. Re:180 will always be right on the edge by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some people are stupid. Our laws assume that people are responsible and that if they sign a contract, that is them willingly singing a contract.

      Not true. You can't sign away your rights. You can't for example sign yourself into slavery. Unfortunately.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:180 will always be right on the edge by nixdix · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The problem is that most people have been worn down by 200+ line "End User Licensing Agreements (EULAs). Most of it is legalese gibberish and often a substantial part of it is in a language the end user does not understand.

      Microsoft is largely responsible for beating the public down in the computer arena until they just click OK or I Agree and be done with it. Microsoft is also responsible for establishing legal precedent that assenting to such an agreement is legal and binding regardless of whether you read it or are capable of understanding it.

      But Microsoft is hardly the first entity to beat the public down until they sign a document without reading it. If you've ever used a parking garage, you have tacitly agreed to the contract written in microfiche on the reverse side of the ticket you are given as you enter the garage - this contract has also been tested in court and is legal and binding.

    3. Re:180 will always be right on the edge by PoopMonkey · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not true. You can't sign away your rights. You can't for example sign yourself into slavery. Unfortunately.

      Unless of course you join the army.

  9. No more spyware! by BHennessy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This will stop spyware dead in its tracks, just like how when the "spam king" got sued all spam ended. ...

  10. A dose of their own medicine.. by nixkuroi · · Score: 5, Funny

    I think the feds should be granted warrants to enter the 180's employee's homes and build furniture in them. This furniture would be covered with fleas, ticks and head lice and be generally annoying to the person who lived there and there family. They would also be painted in ugly colors and make noises anytime someone entered the home or used another piece of furniture. Additionally, the furniture and appliances would be built in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to remove from the homes without causing damage.

    Maybe we could send them some Sony DRM cd's too.

    1. Re:A dose of their own medicine.. by jcgf · · Score: 3, Funny
      I think the feds should be granted warrants to enter the 180's employee's homes and build furniture in them.

      That would kick ass. You could say things like "How do you like your new dining room table in the bathroom bitch?" or "ha ha a poorly designed cupboard in the living room, how do you like them apples mother fucker?".

  11. Your spyware stories? Here's mine by spoco2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ok... I don't really get spyware on my pcs... neither my wife or I go to porn sites (ok... in my youth I did... :/ ), I've made firefox the default browser on all my pcs, we have AVG free virus protection, Sygate Personal firewall... although, bugger... I just noticed they've discontinued that... will have to switch to ZoneAlarm now I suppose... humph. And we run Ad-Aware
      and SpyBot Search and Destroy every now and again...

    But just recently I've had to clean my father-in-law's pc, and a friends one too.

    Now the father-in-law's one was pretty bad, popups would launch with IE, and there was a lot of CPU activity etc. that was not accounted for... nasty stuff... but a clean with Adaware, Spybot, using Add/Remove to kill anything that looked suspect, putting firefox on etc. and we have a clean computer.

    The other computer though... my GOD! On startup it would immediately go to 100% CPU usage... and once you could finally get Task Manager up it was iexplore.exe that was doing the damage... a few minutes later when it'd actually respond to a kill process and the work of cleaning it could finally take place... well... hours later and using all tools I think it's clean now... but it required all of them to get it all... with HiJack This being the final saviour to remove the last of the damage...

    And what were the biggest damage makers? The damn programs that these people downloaded that claimed they were 'Spyware cleaners'... but really were spyware themselves.

    EVIL

    FUCKERS

    they prey on people who already have pcs loaded up with spyware... and put more on.

    Of course the second of the two pcs was infected so damn badly (Spybot found over 3 thousand items) due to porn surfing... almost always the cause of these things.

    I don't know how the makers of these programs live with themselves... there's nothing redeeming about what they do... AT ALL.

    1. Re:Your spyware stories? Here's mine by rjhoffmann · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Preface: I work for a Small-ish computer company in Wisconsin. Adware/Spyware/Malware (etc.. The list goes on.) Has become more of an epidemic than anything. We get roughly 20 pc's in a week to repair. Some are your run of the mill hardware failure, but most (90%) are coming in with the customer complaining that the system is just "running slow" Needless to say, I've seen everything. 180 to vx2 variants, rootkits, and rouge removal products. PC's so loaded down that the only means of repairing is an FnR. What's worse is the adware is bringing up links that claim "Your machine is infected with spyware, click here to remove". So the customer pays money to download a dodgy program that does nothing but infect their machine further. The worst part is that these programs take so long to remove that hourly labor goes thru the roof, (thus making it more cost effective to Format and Reload) In all, I know I'm just kicking the dead horse here, I'd honestly like to see companies like 180 get the feds to actually do something about it.. Probability, nil.. but its worth hope.

    2. Re:Your spyware stories? Here's mine by lucas+teh+geek · · Score: 3, Insightful

      i used to do heaps of porn surfing (before i got a girlfriend) and i never got any adware.
      i think the sentance you were looking for is "Of course the second of the two pcs was infected so damn badly (Spybot found over 3 thousand items) due to porn surfing with IE"

      --
      TIAEAE!
  12. A modest proposal by TomGrantAtXythos · · Score: 3, Interesting
    [Note: For the thuddingly literal out there, I am not actually advocating that anyone do this.]

    Go into the homes of the 180solutions executives. Rewire all their consumer electronics, from their refrigerators to their Tivo boxes. Make it very difficult to figure out what has been changed, or how to change it back. Leave a note behind saying, "We saw how you were using your home electronics and thought we could help!"

    Seriously, I see no difference between this scenario and what adware/spyware companies do with your PC. Even the EULA on adware-loaded software doesn't make it clear what's going to happen once this stuff gets unleashed on your hard drive.

  13. RIAA by qualico · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sure wish we could pit RIAA against 180.

    Why is it that we can have organizations like the RIAA to protect industry interests, yet there is no one to protect the interests of consumers?

    1. Re:RIAA by TechForensics · · Score: 2, Insightful

      We do have one. Or actually, fifty or so. Each state (and probably D.C.) has an Attorney General with powers to sue to stop public scams or nuisances. Usually there is a consumer protection division. People have to start bugging their A.G. It takes a lot of complaints about any particular abuse to get things moving, so go ahead.. and spread the word. CC your letter to your state and federal congresspersons. Larger volume of mail equals better chance you'll be heard.

      --
      Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
    2. Re:RIAA by c0d3h4x0r · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why is it that we can have organizations like the RIAA to protect industry interests, yet there is no one to protect the interests of consumers?



      Because consumers aren't the ones who have all the money.

      Well, that's not entirely true. After all, corporations only get rich because consumers buy their shit. As a group, consumers actually have all the money.

      The problem is that consumers are a bottom-up bunch, so trying to convince them all to support a single agenda and allocate money toward it is nearly impossible. Even if you can get a bunch of consumers to agree on the same agenda, you can't easily and effeciently pool all their funds together toward pushing that agenda. Consumers are armed with frustration, consumer rights groups (such as the EFF) are starved for funding, and even if someone at the top sets an agenda, they don't have the resources to make it happen.

      Corporations, on the other hand, are a top-down bunch, so a single CEO (or small group, aka the board) sets an agenda, and they can immediately throw the tons of money they've previously collected toward making it happen. They are armed with money, they make a decision, they make it happen.

      You can bet that if consumers adequately funded an organization like the EFF, such that the EFF was financially armed better than the RIAA or MPAA, you'd start seeing things change in real ways. But you can also bet that will never happen as long as corporations offer mass-desirable tangible goods for sale while consumer-rights groups only offer intangible services or mass-undesirable tangibles such as T-shirts with their logos on them.
      --
      Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
  14. They're not the only evil ones... by js9kv · · Score: 5, Interesting

    180solutions are scumbags, true.

    What about 2o7.net? These bottom-feeders have been using a domain name that looks like an IP address for ages - and there's no legitimate reason for it, other than to confuse those who can't tell zero's from O's in their firewall reports. Even their hosts appear with stuff like 192.168.1.2o7.net.

    Most folks out there would miss that in a firewall report if they didn't read it closely and wonder why an IP address appeared in the resolved names column.

    What ever happened to the Internet Death Penalty? Boy, do we need it now!

  15. Re:Should take action against these people... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Informative
    In fact, I may have to buy some more, because the price of silver is going to jump up sometime sooner or later as the price of mining and refinery goes up.

    You're daft. You need to study economics. Simply put, if you buy 1 Oz .999 fine silver for $10 it will always be 1 Oz. If you put $10 into this guy's program, and it gets you the right to 1 Oz today, what do you think you get if the dollar drops (which is what this scheme is supposed to be proof against)? You get less silver because Mr NotHaus bases his value on (tada) the dollar. It's all geared to make him money at your expense.

    Want to put money into silver? Go buy a bunch of worn Walking Liberty Halves or Silver Dollars. If the dollar spirals out of control your silver coins (no matter who made them) will have value, but you'll have got a heck of a lot more of them for your money.

    You won't get me to accept those over-priced silver rounds except at the current exchange rate for silver.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  16. Re:Should take action against these people... by Elminst · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I love the final quote in that article;
    "They're a pretty coin, and they're backed by silver. It's a commodity that's going up in value, unlike the U.S. dollar."

    Oooo it's PURTY!!!
    And going up in value? WTF? Silver is BARELY starting to recover from being at it's LOWEST value in nearly 600 YEARS (under $4 in 2002)!!
    As of today, 1 oz of silver is worth $9.02. And these SCHMUCKS pay $20 for one coin. Yeah.. that's a really good investment there, buddy.

    --
    No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
  17. It looks like their luck... by Blazeix · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...is about to turn 180 degrees.

  18. Re:Should take action against these people... by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Insightful
    As of today, 1 oz of silver is worth $9.02. And these SCHMUCKS pay $20 for one coin. Yeah.. that's a really good investment there, buddy.

    Not only that, but his digital dollars are like Enron stock. If all hell breaks loose and we suffer a depression, where do you think you'll find Mr. NotHaus? With all those reserves in the Bahamas, I betcha. Yet, people still continue to believe they can get something for nothing.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  19. 180 solutions spyware news by mcguyver · · Score: 3, Informative

    For details on 180 solutions tricks go to http://www.benedelman.org. It has screenshots of 180 solutions in action...pretty detailed and interesting to read. I'm especially amused by this recent bit of jousting going on between 180 solutions and Ben Edelman. Here Ben accuses 180 solutions of targetting kids as well as being deceptive. 180 solutions responded and here are Ben's latest additions to the arguments. This is a great (and sad) example of how people choose to define the law when it's not explicitly defined.

  20. Re:FISH! by ewhac · · Score: 2, Funny

    You're improving, Rimmer. Last time, you wrote that 400 times, did a silly little dance, and then fainted.

    --
    Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
  21. Death to the Scum Suckers that make Spyware by venuspcs · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Okay a couple things I want to say:

    1.) 180 Solutions has now resorted to FLAT OUT HACKING to get their shit on your computer. I use Firefox 99% of the time. Today, while reading Slashdot (in Firefox) my computer mysteriously rebooted. When it came back up (for a few minutes) I noticed that I now had 180 solutions crap all over my fracking computer. Attempts to clean it caused my computer to reboot again and again and again. I wound up having to do a System Restore to a few hours earlier. These FUCKERS WILL PAY!

    2.) While I am a big fan of ALTERNATE Operating Systems, having the GENERAL PUBLIC switch to them would not solve the problem, for long. The reason Linux, Unix and MacOS don't have this problem is because there isn't a big enough user base to make figuring out how to infect these systems PROFITABLE. If you had a massive move of people to these OS's then they Spyware people would just move too.

    3.) Someone asked why there is an RIAA to protect CORPORATE INTERESTS but nothing to protect CONSUMER INTERESTS. Well there are several reasons: 1.) They have BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, 2.) They work together (probably the most important) to form these groups like the RIAA, 3.) We (the voters) keep electing these low-life son-of-a-bitches that PROTECT CORPORATE AMERICA while SCREWING CONSUMERS and 4.) American's (the consumers) have become complacent and won't TAKE A STAND against CORPORATE AMERICA to PROTECT OUR RIGHTS.

    If people would spend half as much time BITCHING ONLINE (Like I am doing right now) and more time FORMING A GROUP then we might have enough power to CHANGE THINGS.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Richard Colbert
    Web: http://www.venuspcservice.com/
    ICQ: 14466429
    YIM: cmptrgeeknshermantx
    MSN: pcheaven2k at hotmail dot com

  22. 180solutions ranked 7 in Inc. Magazine by GT_Alias · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I thought this was a pretty amusing article:

    Search Marketing Company 180solutions Ranks Seventh On the 2005 Inc. 500 (press release on 180solutions.com web site)

    Either Inc. didn't do their research on companies in their top 10, or they truly don't care how the money is made, only that it is made.

  23. Re:Hehe, cjb.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Posting anonymously to avoid implicating the innocent.

    CJB.net is run by one Chris Butdorf of Wooster, Ohio. I know this because I knew the guy a long time ago.

    This sort of behaviour from him is nothing new. In fact, it goes back to the days of his Spitfire-based BBS.

    One particularly nasty prank that he and a friend of his played was spoofing an email (which in 1996 was easy to do and difficult for non-UNIX savvy types to understand) as though it came from another BBS operator in town. This email went to the Whitehouse, threatening the life of the president. Let me just say that when two Secret Service agents and the Wooster Chief of Police dragged this guy out his band class, and his father out of work, "CJB" thought it was funny. The guy's life was nearly ruined. (Side note - the guy was so disenchanted by the experience that he gave up the tech career path altogether.)

    The fact that he's now adware scum is no surprise to me, and likely not to anyone else who knew him at the time.

  24. Re:Hehe, cjb.net by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Also posting anonymous...

    Just wanted to confirm this story. I went to school with Butdorf, and with the kid that he got into trouble. I know of another incident where Butdorf was suspected of bringing porn into the school and loading it on some school systems and blaming it on another student. The student got yanked out of English class and had all of his posessions searched.

    He was a sad and immature little turd in high school, and it doesn't look like much has changed.