Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Changes Blog Censoring Policies
Lam1969 writes "Microsoft attorney Brad Smith says that the company has a new policy to deal with a foreign government's request that alleges posted material violates its laws. The policy was apparently developed after Microsoft's own employees complained after a Chinese blogger hosted by Microsoft was censored. From the article 'Smith said Microsoft will only remove blogs when given proper legal notice, and even then, will only block access to that material within the country where it is deemed unlawful. The site will still be viewable from outside the country, he said.'"
Oh the irony
Go home and shave your giant head of smell with your bad self
They've actually done as close to the Right Thing(tm) as they can (yeah, so I can be radical) - even tho it costs them more work (=money). I'd have to have to administer this one, tho ;-)
Way to go MS!
--LWM
You know that statement is true when even Microsoft goes out of their way to keep speech protected and free. Way to be, Microsoft.
Well this is obviously part of their evil plan to, er, um.....wait.....If Google was put in this position they'd do a way better, oh, no, not that either.....dammit, what should the official Slashdot we-hate-Microsoft position be here? Damned inconsiderate of them to do something not-obviously-evil and leave us high and dry like this.
Some bring out the best in others, some the worst. Some bring out far more.
Do LESS evil!
I'm happy to see Microsoft take this step. People need to be reminded that the Chinese citizens supposedly have their free speech protected by their constitution. If China wants to violate their own constitution, make sure that the blame falls sqaurely on their shoulders for all the world to see, rather than allowing companies to step in front and absorb the blame for them.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Now consider this a hint to Google about avoiding evil...
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
Don't you recognize irony when you see it? Hellfire, not only was this irony, but it was explicitely declared as such (and a beautiful example of subtle irony it is).
What do you need, <IRONY> and </IRONY> tags?
Microsoft sticking it to censorship and Google shamelessly censoring.
:-/
Now I'm really confused whom to hate.
Help me?
Just give Google 10 more years...
Do no evil. The concept of evil changes with time, sometimes quite rapidly.
Slashdot.org membership suffered a sharp decline when 192 readers' heads mysteriously exploded.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
"complained after a Chinese blogger hosted by Microsoft was censored. "
I thought the Chinese was damn clever (damn clever these Chinese)? 'Hosted by MS'? doesn't seem clever to me. I mean, the guy is open to all sorts of worms and trojans and Sony root kits.
FTFB: But, the behavior of my company in this instance is not right.
Either Scoble is very important to MS, or MS tolerates that from their employees. Beleive it or not, I've been at companies that would NOT have tolerated that kind of outspokeness from one of their employees. Or, Scoble, is now looking for a job.
Supposedly Bill Gates poked some fun at Google over their China ethics dilemma ... maybe this will be the start of something good.
Curse you, MS, for getting good Geek press coverage! Your plans for world domination by making free speech easier so you can pump more advertising into China will fail miserably!
--LWM
How's that going to effect all pedophilia blogs comming from the US? Does that mean that MS will now host blogs that promote pedophilia in the contries where it has not been outlawed?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
These companies dont have a choice if they want to do business in China..
it is rather simple, either MS and Google comply, or they are not welcome in China.
and for those of you who think you would choose to be moral and not support censorship, I would love to see how fast you turn on those convictions if someone pulled up with a dumptruck of money.
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
"And even then, it will block access to that material only within the country where it is deemed unlawful. The site will still be viewable from outside the country, he said."
ooh thats useful. someone blocks your site, then you have to travel to another country to update it.
Is it actually possible that bad press and of course the dollars that might shift from Google to Microsoft might actually drive some freedom. Can you picture this: companies competing against other companies to be the most democratic and free information provider in the world.
That's just good news for everyone (even Microsoft haters).
This is actually really bad for places like china...
Now someone can post a blog/whatever with potential bad info about things happening in china, and no one in china can see it. BUT, the rest of the world will see it in all its glory, uncensored. Great for the revolutionaries, good for the rest of the world, bad for china, et al.
It's like the head in the sand. China won't see it, and thus denies it exists. But the rest of the world will see it just fine.
If this holds, expect to see even more posts about chinese atrocities from internal subversives, because now they won't be hidden from the outside world.
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.
1. Post your chinese blog in Microsoft's pages :D
:)
2. Search using google (with mispelled words) to find your blog.
3. Read!!
Isn't it nice when everyone's working together?
I'm pretty tired of China (who else wants to be censored so badly?) making the price of commercial admission "do our censoring for us." They have the data pipes coming into their country's borders. They should take it upon themselves to filter their own damned data. Filter everything going out and coming in. Then they will know it's contained and controlled just the way they want it.
Sounds like they want to have their noodles and eat'm too.
Microsoft isn't "sticking it to censorship" here. The blog that Microsoft removed that caused all the fuss would still have been censored under the new policy.
They're just restricting the censorship to requests from one country.
Just like Google.
...exactly what the difference is.
Microsoft took a blog down. They got flamed about it. They changed their policies so they'd only "take blogs down" for the country that requested it. The blog in question would still have been censored if the current policy was in effect. Result: Microsoft is applying special filters for China.
Which is exactly what Google is doing.
How is this good when Microsoft does it, and evil when Google does it?
I mean, people aren't going "well, Microsoft's expected to be evil, so this is par for the course", people are actually arguing that this is "not evil". It's less evil than blocking sites/searches that the Chinese government requested everywhere, perhaps, but Google wasn't doing that and nobody ever suggested that they might... and Microsoft was.
A master stroke on Microsoft's part. Expect Google to change its tune momentarily.
1. Google starts to censor in China...
2. Google gets torn a new one...
3. Microsoft turns anti-Google sentiment into pro-Microsoft sentiment through a feel good , "We're not like you-know-who" approach...
4. Microsoft fanboys emerge from caves to post on Slashdot Comments...over.. and over.. again...
5. Microsoft ploy succeeds.....
6. Chinese people still feel screwed as another Company checks morals at the border to turn a profit.
Life is good...
Good step for MS, but I'm curious what will happen when 'the complaining' country is the US.
If the US says take something down, will MS only block it from the US and acrtually leave it up for the rest of the world.
I but a double standard arises rapidly.
Now I've seen Everything
The right thing to do is nothing.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The other face of the janus announces :
_ licensi.html
"MSFT: Our DRM licensing is there to eliminate hobbyists and little guys"
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/01/30/msft_our_drm
# ~: no sigs today
If MS will abide to its new policy, then that is very good news for all Chinese bloggers and for free speech world wide. Totalitarian regimes can maintain themselves not by constantly exercising their force against dissidents. Doing that would be to costly both in economical costs and political. The last thing the Chinese government wants to experience is another Tiannamen Square massacre. Therefore, the totalitarian regime has to resort to non-violent and non-confrontational measures to maintain itself. By using peer pressure, scare tactics and other means that doesn't produce any political fallout. Peer pressure has been applied on the Internet companies working in China to make them voluntarily comply with the regime and to self-censorship.
But now, MS won't cooperate with the regime anymore. So what is China going to do? Create a global controversy by kicking MS out? Not likely since it would scare a huge number of investors away. If MS is kicked out, every foreign company in China will feel threatened and many of them will leave (before they are themselves kicked out). China can, ofcourse, explicitly issue takedown orders on every page hosted by MS that they don't like. But the political cost of that is much greater than if the company acted as the regimes lapdog and censored it themselves. I bet that the cost would be so high that the government won't find it worth their time.
If this policy is real, then it is damn good work by MS for once. They are usually the evil company, but you can't hate a company that acts morally while their competition is taking the easy route to the dollars. In fact, I'm so impressed my next mouse will be a Microsoft one instead of Logitech.
1. The State IS good.
2. The State is All.
3. That which opposes the state, is Evil.
4. Do No Evil.
5. Google Submits to all State demands...
6. Profits are Good!
Hmm, starting to get that good ol' 1984 feeling?
Google: Ministry of Truth.
Move along, citizen, nothing but good and truth to see here.
Although its a step beyond what life is like in china. This link has a pretty amazing story about how things are run in North Korea.
http://1stopkorea.com/nk-trip1.htm
"The goverment decides... The people act!"
"China won't see it, ..."
"China won't officially see it,..."
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
I'm glad to see Microsoft do something like this. It's definitely a step in the right direction, as numerous others have said. But then you have the people who're criticizing Google for doing the exact same thing. Google censoring their search engine in China doesn't make them the bad guy. Instead of imposing American values on a foreign nation (something they have no right to do in the first place), they chose to obey the laws that are valid in that country. Now, I know that if you search for tiananmen square Google gives you results. This may not be the case in China, but for me it worked just fine. Google's whole presence in China is credited to agreements made with the Chinese government to censor certain queries performed on the engine. And everyone knows that if you're routing through a proxy you can get access to whatever you want, so anyone with sense to them (which, last I checked was 99.9% of the populace, in China at least) would be able to get around such imposed restrictions anyway. So why are people complaining? Google knows that if someone wants to get something bad enough they'll be able to, most likely the reason they agreed to comply. Hell, I bet Google has even set up a few proxies for use by people in China trying to 'stick it to the man'. Do you think Microsoft would do something like that? Exactly.
How long do ya think it'll take before this policy is reversed because of child porn. I can hear the headlines now, "Microsoft distributes child pornography and refuses to take it offline." Sure, it'll be blocked in just about every western nation, but if they continue to knowingly distribute the material in any country... well you get the idea. Furthermore, isn't that still a crime in Microsoft's home base: The USA? Even if they aren't distributing it here, they would still be held guilty/accountable/liable, no? Either that, or they make a double standard... but then, what's to stop China from enacting similar laws forcing Microsoft to play ball or leave the country when it comes to political dissidents and "western propaganda?"
Please remember that one of the founders of Google is Russian, and in Russian culture censorship is just not evil. Censorship is what you do if you have the power to do it. Nothing more.
So, when Google says don't be evil, they mean it sincerely. They just don't mean what us Americans mean.
Also, keep in mind that the US government is doing nothing, repeat, nothing, to prevent foreign governments from pressuring US based companies into censorship. If you want there to be no censorship by China, then pass a law stating that any company that censors material based on the request of a foreign government which is not also censorable under US law may not do business in the US.
If you aren't willing to pass such a law, which will have a price, then don't complain about Google.
Please consider the enormous strategic importance of the Chinese market for Google. China is growing FAST. Also consider that Google most likely does not consider themselves to be irreplaceable for China, and that there is really not a lot they can do (unless the US Government pushes back against China in this culture war). Then consider one last time that in Russian culture this is just not evil.
This is a job for the US Government, not Google or Microsoft. Oh dear. Sigh.:-/
If google broke the law, they wouldn't be at all for very long, at least not in China. The choice was between staying out of China or submitting to censorship.
Frosty piss posts are worthless, GNAA posts are worthless and hurtful, but they are the least of this site's neuroses.
We may disagree with respect to operating system and economic philosophy, but at least we can agree that liberty is important and must be defended everywhere. People have to be able to make free choices, even if we personally may vehemently regard them as wrong. Without that what is "freedom" worth?
I would like to know: if I post ISO images of Office 12 on my blog, will Microsoft allow them to be viewed in countries that don't respect U.S. copyright law?
If not, it would seem that Chinese law applies to China, but U.S. law applies to the world. At least as a matter of Microsoft policy.
Also, at the time of the post it wasn't (too) redundant (at least, I don't recall seeing a whole host of pre-existing posts with the same content). Now, of course . . .
Yes, it may have been cliche, but it was not off-topic.
Also, at the time of the post it wasn't (too) redundant
Well, no one seems to have modded it "off topic", or "redundant".
Currently:
50% Funny
20% Overrated
10% Troll
But I personally do think that "redundant" is applicable for a post that lacks any originality. Mod justice is only approximate, I've had posts that were modded down to 0 as "overrated" when thare were no positive mods at all. And numerous "troll" mods for posts that just expressed an honest opinion.