19 Charged in Alleged Software Piracy Plot

Its just a .... by scenestar · 2006-02-01 13:18 · Score: 5, Insightful

A warez group.

Not some super secret terrorist organisation out to destroy america's economy.

--
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits

Re:Its just a .... by ScrewMaster · 2006-02-01 13:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

One could easily argue that the unfettered multi-lettered organizations of various nationalities that are going after these (ahem) "pirates" are guilty of a degree of terrorism themselves. Of course, they would use words such as "justice" or "deterrence", but that's really a matter of perspective. Oh sure, we aren't talking explosives or mass-murder here ... but we are talking about private organizations conscripting law-enforcement agencies into putting the fear of God (or Allah, or whatever deity you choose) into groups of people whose crime really doesn't warrant the attention it is receiving. My own take is that it is not the responsibility of the taxpayer to support their businesses, or to protect their oh-so-valuable "intellectual property". If the media companies want to spend their money taking people to court for their alleged improprieties that's one thing ... but misusing police resources this way is just unacceptable. Personally, I'd rather see my tax dollars going to deal with somewhat more serious issues. Certainly there are more than enough of those to go around.

--
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
Re:Its just a .... by monkeydo · 2006-02-01 13:55 · Score: 3, Insightful

What's your point? They (allegedly) broke the law didn't they? They knew what they were doing was illegal, and they did it anyway. They should be prosecuted. This isn't civil disobedience, since that is done publicly. This group apparantly took elaborate measures to conceal their activities.

--
Si vis pacem, para bellum
The only thing more annoying than a Libertarian is an (un|mis)informed Libertarian
Re:Its just a .... by TubeSteak · 2006-02-01 14:03 · Score: 4, Insightful

The main charge is criminal conspiracy.

It doesn't matter if you criminally conspire to evade taxes, to murder someone or to infringe on copyrights.

Conspiring to break laws is a crime and the police should deal with them as criminals.

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:Its just a .... by kfg · 2006-02-01 15:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

This isn't civil disobedience, since that is done publicly.

You just made that up, or, no, I take it back, you weren't that creative. You're just repeating what you've "heard." Civil disobedience as a form of public protest is done publicly, but civil disobedience is a matter of conscience, not public display.

Thoreau said, "Break the law."

He didn't say "Break the law, but make sure you get caught."

Damn near every pot smoker hiding in the basement is being civilly disobedient simply because they know in their hearts that it is the law that is wrong. It's an issue of intent.

Hell, 9 tenths of the 4th Amendment was to allow you be civilly disobedient in private and without fear of prosecution, because the framers knew that sooner or later the government would act to make mere possession of something or other a crime in and of itself.

Most of them had been criminally guilty of it themselves.

KFG
Re:Its just a .... by ePhil_One · 2006-02-01 15:21 · Score: 4, Interesting

I still have no idea what the OP's point is, and now I have no idea what your point is, or how they relate to one another.
The OP's point was they were criminals who knew what they were doing was wrong and had serious concequences if they were caught, but chose to continue doing it. He actually supports artists who use the Creative Commons license and the local music scene.
The chap you responded to believes that because he believes copyright law is wrong, that those violating it on a grand scale are actually commiting "civil disobedience" and should be celebrated as heros and let free. Notably, he is a leech on the P2P networks, downloading from others but blocking incoming connections from fear of enforcement; a P2P leaf node
Personally I think the article was posted to let the community know it will take longer before the latest movies are available for download on their latest P2P network. Any other questions?

--
You are in a maze of twisted little posts, all alike.

6.5 million? by SirTalon42 · 2006-02-01 13:18 · Score: 4, Interesting

What is that 6.5 million based on? Is that the retail price of the product normally? Or is it that $250,000 per infringement copyright thing?

Re:6.5 million? by lostboy2 · 2006-02-01 14:10 · Score: 3, Informative

What is that 6.5 million based on? Is that the retail price of the product normally?

I'm guessing that it's the "value" of the merchandise, as reported by the companies who made it.

As I understand it, companies over-inflate their products' value so it looks like they're giving you a great discount. That's why the Ronco Six Star Plus Cutlery Set has an $850 value but is yours for only $39.95 (plus Shipping and Handling), and why all that crap they had on Wheel of Fortune cost so much.

Ahh, sweet conspiracy... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-02-01 13:20 · Score: 5, Funny

...my favorite trumpin'-up charge.

WAREZCO at your serViZ by Anonymous Coward · 2006-02-01 13:20 · Score: 5, Funny

Excellent! Now that RISCISO is out of the way, WAREZCO can sweep in and fill the void unopposed. I keep reading the history of Al Capone, its so easy, I didn't even have to line these guys up and mascacre them in a fake police sting!

Long live darknets! A thousand more spring up...

Hmm by Soporific · 2006-02-01 13:20 · Score: 4, Funny

I guess that means the other 50 cracking groups are all quaking in their boots now doesn't it?

~S

IN CAPITALIST AMERICA by RLiegh · 2006-02-01 13:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

we don't make that distinction.

Re:IN CAPITALIST AMERICA by MttJocy · 2006-02-01 14:23 · Score: 5, Insightful

I personally don't know where they get their idea that terrorists make their income from piracy, I might be more inclined to believe such a comment made about drugs myself than piracy, I would have thought the former was an alot more lucretive faster than piracy personally.

I guess that comment is just another scare tactic, I suppose they think that claiming links to terrorism may stop people buying pirate software.
Re:IN CAPITALIST AMERICA by Travoltus · 2006-02-01 15:42 · Score: 4, Funny

You can't prove there isn't a terrorism-piracy link.

Therefore we need to treat pirated software / mp3's as WMD's.

We begin bombing in 5 minutes!

--
--- Grow a pair, liberals... stop letting the Republicans bully you!

Image from TFA by _Hellfire_ · 2006-02-01 13:26 · Score: 5, Funny

"AFP/File Photo: Computer connected to the internet."

Just in case, ya know... You didn't know what a computer connected to the internet looked like.

--
"And then I visited Wikipedia ...and the next 8 hours are a blur..."

That's a lot of money... by rnpg1014 · 2006-02-01 13:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

I have no idea how they managed to pirate $6.5 million in software. Assuming the average price of a movie is $7, they would have needed to pirate over 900,000 movies. And to think that they can only be given up to 5 years of prison. They should have to pay for all that stolen software, which is quite a figure even when divided by 19.

It's people like these who make it more and more difficult just to use software because of the security features they add. I can't tell you how many times iTunes has spontaniously wiped all the files on it.

--
- Nick

Re:That's a lot of money... by Aranth+Brainfire · 2006-02-01 13:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

"It's people like these who make it more and more difficult just to use software because of the security features they add."

No, it's people like the ones that make decisions in the companies that produce the software stupidly thinking they can make something that nobody will break, and sacrificing usability of the end-product for the concept.

Consider how many times it's kept a product from being pirated. Then consider how many times the companies have been majorly burned by it backfiring on them.

Smart decisions, huh?

--
"Quoting yourself is stupid." -Me

Nice stock photo there by XXIstCenturyBoy · 2006-02-01 13:27 · Score: 5, Funny

Their "Computer connected to the internet" picture is one of IE saying there is no connection.

That's the amount... by IAAP · 2006-02-01 13:29 · Score: 5, Funny

that these pirates can hold in their ships. What they don't say is if that's per ship or per fleet. I don't know. If you don't stop them, they'll get bigger and faster ships, and who knows how much software they can pirate then!

Warez Is Now An Extraditable Offence by Anonymous Coward · 2006-02-01 13:30 · Score: 5, Interesting

Parent article misses the major problem here - the US DOJ is going to spend boatloads of cash extraditing two of the kids in this case, one from Australia and one from Barbados. Warez is justification for extradition? The DOJ even admits in its press release that profit was not an issue here. This makes it wide-scale file sharing, and a waste of John Q. Public's tax dollars. Good job FBI/DOJ/assorted alphabet organizations wasting funds and following orders from bribed politicians... oh sorry, those were "campaign contributions" from the movie and software industries...

As a shareware developer, I could care less about kids cracking my software, but I'm getting damn sick of the charade going on as the BSA cries (to its own benefit only) about the evils of piracy.

From the Article by Via_Patrino · 2006-02-01 13:32 · Score: 3, Funny

From the article:
"Online thieves who steal merchandise that companies work hard to produce"

I though he was saying:
Online thieves who steal products that companies work hard to merchandise

Great start! by a_nonamiss · 2006-02-01 13:35 · Score: 4, Funny

Way to go Feds! 19 down, 19,999,981 to go. You guys rock!

--
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules

Bait? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-02-01 13:36 · Score: 4, Insightful

I thought of doing that, selling warez cds and dvds on ebays (even tho its prohibited and they watch for that, people still do it anyway). Guess what. There is no market.

Take a look at used software for sale on ebay. Thousands of used titles with no takers. The bottom has fallen out of software business long ago. Next to go was the music business, and then the movie business. Its not even worthwhile to duplicate them and list them.

There is such a flood of media and digital data, that its very hard to sell such a thing anymore. Ask any music artist or band trying to sell their cd. There just are no takers. Its gone long ago.

To think that PGA Golf and The Aviator are items in hot demand is laughable... me thinks we are being baited.

WTF? by snookums · 2006-02-01 13:37 · Score: 5, Interesting

From TFA:

Each defendant was charged with one count of conspiracy to commit copyright infringement, which carries a five-year maximum prison sentence. Fifteen also were charged with copyright infringement, which carries a three-year maximum.

Anyone care to explain why conspiracy attracts a harsher sentence than the actual crime? I mean, leaving aside the whole moral quagmire surrounding the criminalization of copyright infringement, how can thinking and talking about doing something carry a harsher penalty than actually doing it. Does this type of duality apply in traditional crimes like assault, murder and larceny?

--
Be careful. People in masks cannot be trusted.

Re:WTF? by TubeSteak · 2006-02-01 13:48 · Score: 5, Informative

Conspiracy is usually treated harshly because we tend to assume that one person can only do so much damage. Gather other people into your crime allows you and your conspirators to side -step all the laws & procedures that are in place to prevent abuses by one person.

Conspiracy also implies premeditation, which automatically makes any crime worse.

--
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-02-01 14:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

Back in 2000 I participated with one of the groups that was indicted the following year in "Operation Bandwidth". The rundown they gave us was that if we didn't plea out as a group under conspiracy, they would go after us as individuals with an actual copyright infringement charge instead of conspiracy(they stated they had all the evidence they would need from the computers confiscated from the raids they performed to put each one of us away). On a side note, this is currently still an active case and I have yet to be sentenced in this case due to the fact that the U.S. prosecutor wants us all to be present at the same time for each of our own sentences and there are still people waiting to goto trial.

Now that these nutty cyber terrorists are gone... by Spiffness · 2006-02-01 13:38 · Score: 5, Insightful

We can all sit back and relax once again.

The frustrating/disappointing thing about all these lawsuits and 'victories' over piracy is that with every win, groups like the MPAA/RIAA only feel more firmly that their new business model (CRUSH, SUE, EXTORT, EXTERMINATE!) is a successful and long term one. Each time a major 'piracy bust' hits the news it only further propagates the myth that Piracy is what's driving declines in Movies, Music, Software and Games. When the real culprit (though, obviously Piracy does play some part) is Quality, Price, and the Media (DRM disks, copy once CDs, Theaters, Star-Force, ect).

But then again, I'm preaching to the choir here...

This is a misleading headline by dshaw858 · 2006-02-01 13:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

I think that this headline, and even the beginning of the article, truly works as a scare tactic for the MPAA. No, I'm not thinking of a conspiracy, but think about how this situation worked in reality-

The defendants, many of whom worked in high-tech jobs, were members of "RISCISO," a "warez" community founded in 1993, according to the indictment. Warez groups are underground associations that use the Internet to illegally distribute copyrighted software.

Okay, right. A warez group got busted. Great. But the headline reads 19 Charged in Alleged Software Piracy Plot. Piracy plot? And the worst part, by far, is the opening of the article- A federal grand jury has indicted 19 people on charges they used the Internet to pirate more than $6.5 million worth of copyrighted computer software, games and movies. To the untrained eye, this seems just like every day Bob who downloaded a film or two...

I think it's a scare tactic. I don't like it. But then again, maybe I'm paranoid and stuff...

- dshaw

free software by wesw02 · 2006-02-01 13:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

Stuff like this makes me happy I use open-source that is free of cost :).

Re:Good by Yartrebo · 2006-02-01 14:21 · Score: 4, Insightful

It is rightfully modded down because it's not bringing any new ideas to the table and is just making a rather inciting comment. In other words, trying to start a flamewar.

Bring a good, detailed argument about why non-profit copyright violators should be punished to the fullest extent of the law and then we can have a more reasonable debate.

Sometimes I wonder.... by Ragnarrokk · 2006-02-01 14:33 · Score: 4, Funny

Why the US DoJ doesn't hurry up and name itself "Ministry of Profit" already. The pretence is tiresome.

``Ragnarok

How many items by Kanasta · 2006-02-01 14:34 · Score: 3, Funny

add upto 6.5mil?
I didn't know there was that much current software in existence.

Thought Police- How many lives have you saved? by ThoreauHD · 2006-02-01 14:35 · Score: 5, Insightful

You cannot know anything unless you pay for it first- and without a money back guarantee. You cannot listen to music, see theater, or learn unless you pay- and without a money back guarantee. If I buy a lemon, and it's core is rotten and infested- I can return it. If I buy a music CD and the music is complete crap complete with DRM so that I can't actually play it- not only do I not get my money back but I don't even own the said piece of crap. It's a rental.

Is this how humanity evolved? Is this how we will be able to retain knowledge in the future? What the fuck are libraries but mass piracy collectives?

Here is the truth of it, and it will piss off pretty much everyone in this non-manufacturing based economy.

You either know something or you do not. It is either secret or it is not. And in the end, all things are known.

You cannot own knowledge. It was never yours to begin with. The language I am speaking now was giving to me by thousands of years of other English speakers. It is not mine to own. The word "fkucherry" that I just made up does not belong to me. It is a contruct of what I've learned from others. It is knowledge.

When this understanding is realized, say after a catastrophic event, then Linux will no longer need the GPL along with all other proprietary software/entertainment data. And the data that will be able to survive at that point will be open data, as Linux is today. It will save our asses- mark my words. Windows and all those shit programs that those people copied won't be worth a drop of piss. Nobody will be able to modify it. It will be useless.

And so here is what I think of arresting very smart people in high end technical positions. Maybe they know something that you don't? Maybe they aren't paid by people that get their money from PAC funded politicians. Maybe they are archiving data educating more people than your broken government ever could. Maybe we should all think about what this means.

I have to tell you that the moment Intellect and Knowledge became legal property is the moment that you have no "lawful" rights to your own thoughts. That does not serve anyone and never has.

Slashbot says.... by Stickerboy · 2006-02-01 18:22 · Score: 4, Funny

DOJ busts ring of people conspiring to infringe on copyrights and sell illegal copies of work

What are they thinking?!? This is as petty as a crime gets! Don't they have anything better to do?

DOJ busts spammers for conspiring to find people's email addresses and send email to them

ROCK ON!!! Hang the motherfuckers! Burn them at the stake! It's too bad we can't bust them all!

Corporation infringes on copyright, redistributes modified GPL'ed work without source

Assholes! Somebody take them to court! Sue them for every cent they're worth!

--
Light a fire for a man and he'll be warm for a day. Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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