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Tagging Devices To Aid In Car Chases
kthejoker writes "ABC News is reporting that a company called StarChase has invented a device that will allow police teams to 'tag' cars involved in dangerous chases. The device is the size of a golf ball, can be launched via an air-powered shooter attached to police vehicles, and uses a "highly efficient" glue to stick to cars. From there, it transmits its GPS position to a central monitoring station."
Its like the spiderman toys we all used to throw at windows and doors.
Am I the only one who could never get them to stick to friends backs?
liqbase
Shouldn't Peter Parker own the patent to this device? If so, I wondow what the police will be paying in licensing fees.
Keeping up with a car in a highly visible chase scenario might be the most dangerous way to handle a criminal with a deadly weapon.
Better to let them think he has outstarted the police and hopefully back off a little bit.
High tensions and a rush hour road or pedestrian town centre don't generally mix.
liqbase
If the police pursue a criminal in a high speed chase and someone else gets hurt as a result of it, the police have a good chance of being sued. The tagger would help tremendously in this department, as it encourages the person being pursued to ditch the car at some point instead of flying around the roads like a maniac.
James Tiberius Kirk: "Spock, the women on your planet are logical. No other planet in the galaxy can make that claim."
it could well help avoid fatalities in road chases, the police can then hang back and not push too hard on the person they are chasing, this should help take some of the tension out and reduce the risk of the criminals trying something stupid and killing people, police helicopters can then be called in to keep track and the people in the car can be arrested when it stops (or if the tyres are blown out in a safe place)
*''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
Make these available to everyone. When you see someone being an idiot or asshole driver, not just the aggravating ones, but the really stupid ones you pull this out, and tag them. After about 3-4 "tags" the cops can pull them over and give them a "asshole" ticket. Even better would be if these tags had a memory in them that recorded the time and GPS coordinates of the event you tagged them for. Maybe even allow selection of event types such as speeding, reckless driving, drunk driving, blocking traffic, too slow, etc. But I guess this would be handing over the cops job to the citizens and you know we are not law enforcement trained so we wouldn't know a violation, and a lot of innocent people would be getting "harrassed"for something the didn't do ;)
Surely there should be some real experience to report by now, rather than just a press release from the manufacturer...
Regardless of whether fleeing drivers realize they have been tagged, it's unlikely that individuals could unglue the dart.
Delicate electronics don't tend to survive being hit with a hammer. You don't have to get it off the car, all you have to do is disable it. I'd be curious to see how smash proof this thing is.
AccountKiller
Car chases careening through L.A. mowing down pedestrians like wheat aren't just the stuff of action movies. They're actually a significant danger.
And for as long as people have been saying, "Chasing people down residential streets at 80 miles an hour is dangerous, for Pete's sake!" the standard reply has been, "Well, we can't just let them go."
Now, maybe they can let them go, and the Bigger-Dick Theory of Car Chases can finally be put to bed. Stick them with a tracking dart, surprise them when they're sleeping. Just like Batman. Except with less bats.
> "Why can't they just keep up with the car to begin with?"
As mentioned above, high speed pursuits are extremely dangerous,and usually the police will want to back off if they are in a built-up area and they can track the perpetrator via other methods without aggravating them further.
>"but chance are the cost makes it very impractical."
As opposed to, say, smashing a patrol car or two, before slamming in to some unfortunate motorist who just happens to be crossing an intersection, America's Greatest Police Chases stylee?
"Besides, why should the police get all the fun toys?"
Because they're funded by the taxpayer to use all available resources in the fight against crime - so they have a budget for technoloy like this if it's going to prove cost effective (for example in reducing pursuit collisions).
Philosopher (n) - a wise person who is calm and rational; someone who lives a life of reason with equanimity
this will help tracking car but not the person in the car. if police stop chasing person because they think they can track using gps signal, person can leave the car ( if car is stolen ).
I am going to have to disagree with this plan. Yes, it might make running away from the police futile. Yes, car chases will be over more quickly. But I cannot and will not deal with the loss of "World's Wildest Police Chases" because some guy who had a spiderman sticky toy when he was 9 invents a spiderman sticky toy that ends police chases. It's not right.
I recently did work at a company that sort of competes with onstar - the field is referred to within the industry as 'telematics' apparently. Anyway, it was kind of interesting, drivers could put their cars into a theft recovery mode' where in addition to reporting gps it would also kick the cell phone on in a stealth mode where operators could hear what was going on in the car and coordinate with law enforcement. One time when I was there one of these was going on and the operator was on the phone and could hear the siren as the police approached, and was able to tell them 'no, it sounds like you're getting further away from them' when the cop car took a wrong turn or something. Pretty neat.
Apparently the legal department of the place spent the majority of their time fighting off law enforcement from getting info from the service to track suspected drug dealers or whatever for agency requests.
It seems to me that anyone willing to engade in a long hi-speed pursuit is just the sort of person that this will NOT be effective with. I understand wanting to avoid long pursuits. In fact, in my city, as a matter of policy, police officers will not engade in a pursuit with motorcycle in the downtown area. The combination of speed and the crowdedness of the streets are simply not worth the risk.
Also, think about the nature of the pursuits they are wanting to avoid. We've all seen it on cops. Driver takes off going way in excess of 100 mph on city and neighborhood roads. If the cops are lucky, they can radio ahead to other police officers and setup road blocks or put down tire strips. But the suspect always either nails the cops with his car and keeps going, or blows his tires out and keeps going along right on his rims shooting sparks every which way. Sometimes, the cops will perform that move where they catch up to the fleeing car and ram it on a rear fender which sends the driver spinning out of control. Sometimes this works. Sometimes they spin out and hit people and just keep on going. Sometimes they even get the suspect trapped between two cruisers and run at the driver, pistols drawn. And sometimes the drivers just smash their way right out of this almost killing the police officers in the process.
Yeah, I understand the need to want to curtail all of this dangerous activity. But what the last thing you always see from your airial police-cam? The driver gets out and starts running. My guess, if the person fleeing is desperate enough to get involved in a high speed pursuit, then they are also probably going to run after they ditch their car. If the cop is hanging back, I seriously doubt they are going to catch them.
Can you lay a spike strip from behind a car?
Cause too many people are taking him too seriously :D
When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
The best is still a chopper with night vision, so when the perp leaves the car they can be followed. After all, the value is in getting the criminal.
That's not a bad idea at all. A hand-held launcher has one huge flaw: while you are chasing a suspect's car you are also likely speeding through the streets with the other vehicle, attempting to avoid obstacles and pedestrians, talking to other officers, trying to keep up with where you are so you know what to tell the other officers, and bouncing around inside your car. Now try tagging someone with one of these trackers at the same time. Not only would you be unlikely to make the shot, but you'll also be putting your life and quite possibly other people's lives in further danger.
;)
With this device another officer at dispatch could remotely aim and fire the vehicle-mounted device. However, using pre-installed GPS devices are far less costly to the police force and probably a bit more reliable, but this tracking ball is a great back-up in case someone didn't comply and someone else stole that particular vehicle.
Then again... there are such things as helicopters.
The idea that this will end high-speed car chases is seriously far-fetched.
If a policeman relies on this device and stops chasing the guy, the common criminal will simply ditch the car and get away.
The reason cops chase people is so the bad guy doesn't get away. Maybe it will help in situations where the police can't help but lose sight of a car in a chase, but how often does that happen outside of the movies?
I also think that if this weapon starts to be used a lot, the fugitives will also escape into dense cities, undergroung parkings, etc because they know GPS devices cease to function there. Anyone has an idea of how the data of the device is transmited back to the police... maybe that is another thing to work around...
in a lot of cities there are ordinances that the cops can't chase motorists under various conditions, like over 20mph over the speed limit. It's pretty common actually, the idea being that in high speed chases even more people get injured.
You are joking right?
This is basically cheap ass battery and GPS unit that is so over produced today they are cheaper than peanuts. By Peanuts I mean slightly premium quality ones, that may costs 30$ a unit.
And glue, well, that isn't exactly expensive, add on some air based cannon, not very expensive at all.
Of course, the whole process of development is expensive, so you should be glad when such development that your taxes goes into comes out with something that can reduce get aways, dangerous chases and crime.
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Okay... that just makes the case once more for the GPS jammer, a device that emulates GPS signals and fools every GPS receiver in its vicinity into thinking it is located near the south pole. Of course the car is still trackable by triangulating the location beacon. Of course a GPS jammer like that would be a dangerous thing to have and I'm thinking of here is what if someone happens to put that on a plane. I fly myself so that's a scary thought.
When we were kids we used to throw snowballs at passing cars. The kids of tomorrow will be throwing sticky GPS tracking devices at cars.
I kept seeing a recurring theme throughout the posts on this device (and I haven't read the article yet), in that police should chase the criminals with helicopters. Great idea, but a lot of cities and towns don't have, or can't afford, or don't have the facilities for a helicopter.
There are also many ways in which a helicopter can be either avoided, or at least forced to drop far enough back to give you a better chance to lose it. Going near a major airport comes to mind. A city with many tall buildings (downtown New York or LA comes to mind) would make the helicopter less effective.
The way I could see police using this device, is tag the car, then "let" them get away/out of sight. Using the GPS, keep a group of patrol cars in a "box" around the suspect, and eventually, he/she will stop somewhere. At that point, move in. Best case, everybody wins. The cops get the criminal, the vehicle is minimally damaged, and few if any civilians get hurt. Worst case, the cops get the car back in good shape, and again, few if any civilians get hurt. Truthfully, I believe the cops would much prefer fewer chances of civilian injuries versus getting the criminal in custody, and not just because of the lawsuits.
Likely, most chases start when the criminal does something to attract the attention of the police, who then do what they are supposed to do: try to catch them. The problem with backing off, is that once the chase is on, they get fixated on stopping them. It seems a (very loosely) similar situation would be when one is working on a project or program, and is cruising along, try to stop... One big difference, which I'm sure someone would point out if I don't, is writing code isn't going to hurt anyone.
Stop and think for a moment, too, what would happen if the police *never* chased. Why bother doing anything even remotely near the speed limit? Streets are too corwded, hit the sidewalk at 60mph... Traffic signals would be less than "suggestions"....
At least if people think there's the possiblity of a cop, or several cops, chasing, and likely stopping them, they're more likely to simply pull over. With the obvious exception of criminals....
Do you see the FNORDS? I refuse to post anonymously, as I am fireproof!
Won't the cops need spidey senses to use it?
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
If everyone has a tag, then you can just track people directly. Even when they are on foot.
Wouldnt we be so much safer if the government knew where everyone was , at all times?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Let's see now. How about this for a hypothetical situation:
Criminal/drug dealer type buys expensive car with his ill gotten money. Said person then proceeds to install a GPS TRACKER in his expensive car so if it gets stolen, the company can track it and return it to him and he can take the person who stole it to court???
I guess this is why criminals continue to get caught - because by the sounds of it, most of them are stupid enough to voluntarily put TRACKING TECHNOLOGY in their own cars. Makes it easy for police to build a social network map of the criminal's associates and market now, doesn't it?
In reality, SMART criminals would work like this:
Buy aforementioned expensive car. No need to install expensive tracking device in case it gets stolen, because the thief would soon find themselves trying to play Harry Houdini with concrete slippers encased around their ankles....
Nice and quiet, no need to involve law enforcement, and everyone ends up happy (well, except for fishfood boy).
Only in America.... land of the stupid criminal mastermind!
Visceral Psyche Films
The potential for someone getting hurt with an electrical disruption device (especially a 2 foot spear!) is much higher. This is passive so it doesn't involve any risk to those in the fleeing vehicle. If someone is driving at 100mph it might actually be more dangerous to just shut their vehicle off and have them lose control at that speed. Plus, it wouldn't have any affect on pre-computer vehicles, (ok so not a lot of those speeding around....)
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
What happens if the criminal panics?? More specifically, what will happen if the criminal thats being chased looks out his window and sees the cop aiming what looks like to be a gun at the car? Granted it would be pretty unrealistic to expect the officer to pull right up, point the thing out the side window and shoot while driving along side, but even so, one of three things could happen. The criminal can shoot back (very doubtful but who knows in a car chase). Or the guy can panic, loose control of the car, sending it into who knows where, or he can go at even faster speeds trying to lose the cop. Or he could just stop and the chase would be over ;)
Its pretty obvious that these darts have to be shot discretely.
The cops start shooting at you with anything at all for whatever reason their little pea brain has, that gives you the right to shoot back.
If you are ever involved in a high speed car chase, common sense should tell you you can't outrun a cop car which has a souped up engine, souped up radiator, bigger gas tank, and when they are interconnected out there with radios and a central dispatch. You can learn alot from the discovery channel.
This is what you do.
First, you jam them across the radio band with a white noise generator connected to a transmitter you have wired to your beefed up car electronics system. If you're not driving with one of these, you're a sitting duck for any police action against you. They will pull you over, they will search you, they will plant evidence on you, and you will suddenly find yourself doing 10 to life. Pigs have more access to 'drug evidence' they can plant on you than you could ever imagine. In the end, it comes down to your word against theirs, who do you think a jury will believe. I thought so. The only person who will protect you is you yourself. This is life or death.
Second, you site your automatic weapons on the son of a ****** that is chasing you from the rear seat while someone else drives. Slow down, let them catch up to you, and then aiming straight for the driver you let him have it with the full clip. If that don't kill the SOB it sure as heck will convince him to back the f off. If you can't get the driver, the tires and the radiator are secondary targets.
Remember to lead your target.
If you don't have someone else in the car or a weapon, you have to follow Boella's (sp?) Dicta, which says you should always, always, turn and face your enemy at all times. In this case, the bogie is already on yoru tail. Speed up real fast, get him going real fast with lots of inertia, and then slow down, closing the gap, so Piggie thinks he's being supercop and has you now. Then slam on the brakes real hard so he smashes into your rear end. You will be expecting it, he won't.
Now most amatuers at this point would speed up and try to run for it again. No, that gives him time to speed up and go back into supercop mode. You do what any motherbear would do protecting her cubs. You turn and fight. That's right, swing your car around, and start ramming the SOB. Forward, backwards, forward, backwards, slam in to him, aiming for the weak points in his combat vehicle.. the driver side door first, the radiator second. Once you've beaten him black and blue, then you can leave. Get a good distance a way, ditch the car out of site, and get yourself a fresh vehicle.
You will want to return and pick up the original car later, as it may trace back to you with prints, etc. So its good to stash it down some logging road in the back woods.
Or, you can continue to live in your fairy land, that the police are there to serve and protect, and not a police state out of control, only interested in protecting power and fear and slander upon you. And that a defense lawyer, which should be the most honorable profession on earth, meant to be the last stand against the overwhelming power of the state... hasn't been undermined or sold out yet or has no clue how to really defend anybody in court, irregardless of how expensive they are.
The only one who will protect your rights are you. You have to fight like a pyscho Indian, and yes, its to the death. Why this is? Because for the last 20 years nobody has stood up for civil rights, and everything that was fought for in World War 2 against fascism and police power has been eroded away and is now gone.
Oh yeah, and when you stash your beat up car, assuming the "paintball golf ball gps unit" is still attached. Stop by an airport, find a plane that is about to take off, and stash it on somebody's carry on. Or if you can't find that, watch for one of those ninja bikes, and when he stops for gas, tag him with it, he should give them a run for the moeny. Or barring all t
They use one of these in episode 8 of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex to track and follow some criminals who are getting away through crowded down-town traffic. Nice to see some things from Sci-fi coming into reality.
So you just have a jammer in the car before you commit a crime. Problem solved.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Tag 'em and bag 'em may not sound glamorous but I for one welcome our new sticky dart, GPS tracking overlords. It'll be safer for everyone.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
..and I'm not sure they pay to dig the bullet out. I wouldn't worry about your cockamamie paint job.
Because surely, standing on the side of the road wailing on your car with a hammer is an effective means of avoiding pursuit.
As we've all grown up in the virtual crime world of Grand Theft Auto, as soon as our car gets 'tagged' by law enforcement, you just have to go and steal a new car!
There are times when stalling the car would cause more damage than good. On a crowded street, it could very easily cause an accident, and get people killed.
Quite aside from that... what about manual transmissions? And what happens when somebody figures out how to do it? No. Way too dangerous an idea. Far and above, the safest thing to do in a "high speed" chase is tag the car and break off the chase. Let them think they've gotten away, so they can slow down to a more sane speed, and then pick them up when they stop for gas, food, or some other kind of rest.
If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
...would be a 20mm cannon. That way when the cop misses the fugitive car and hits a pedestrian, the pedestrian won't be around to file the lawsuit.
rj
c) Figure you're being tracked, pull in to a 7/11 and steal another car if you can't get the tracking device off or don't have time too. They just encouraged carjacking.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
If you really want to get away from the cops, buy a motorcycle.
RCMP in Canada will not chase speeding motorcyles; the chase with an untrained driver is likely to end up in death, and they're not going to be able to keep up. A speeding ticket isn't worth a death sentence for the driver of the motorcycle.
Makes me wonder what they do in the US.
For what it's worth; it is a myth that police cars are fast. The interceptors are only fast on freeways, where you are unlikely to gain the speed differential needed to escape. They're very heavy. If you are in a sports car with performance tires, and know something about driving, you can outrun a police car very easily on a secondary road. The only question is if they can radio ahead to have someone block the road. Most areas do not have enough police coverage to do this.