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When Does Maturity Set In?
An anonymous reader writes "Two Dartmouth researchers claim that they are one step closer to discovering at what age human maturity sets in. From the article: 'For the study, Baird and graduate student Craig Bennett looked at the brains of nineteen 18-year-old Dartmouth students who had moved more than 100 miles to attend college. A control group of 17 older students, ranging in age from 25 to 35, were also studied for comparison. The results indicate that significant changes took place in the brains of these individuals. The changes were localized to regions of the brain known to integrate emotion and cognition. Specifically, these are areas that take information from our current body state and apply it for use in navigating the world.'"
For ordinary people or those of us on Slashdot?
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You're only young once, but you can be immature forever.
God knows my colleagues agree!
I'm never going to grow up! First post!!!!!
When moving away from home you encounter a hell of a lot of new experiences and theres so much to learn and take in.
For instance, embedding the location of the pub and distance to the nearest kebab shop are key.
Students who cannot manage this feat rarely last a week, you see them cold hungry and sober in lectures wishing they were back at home.
Of course your brain matures when you leave home though, you do have to adapt, because you just couldn't survive if you let your mummy do everything.
liqbase
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And I would just like to say POOP! *giggle*
From TA:
.... significant changes took place in the brains of these individuals"
"During the first year of college
- yeah, because it's the first year of college - they're all busy pickling their brains with newly found alcohol and drugs.
duh.
Worthless research.
What constitutes maturity is not exactly well defined; these fellows just seem to have chosen a bunch of criteria (ability to navigate the world my ass) and proceeded on such basis.
The problem here isn't when people mature, that part's easy enough given an accepted definition of maturity. The problem is reaching that definition.
Do they allow people to do research now without the prerequisite of being able to distinguish between subjectivity and objectivity?
This research is like if I stated that the volume of an alarm clock is a good determinant of how likely one is to be a successful employee. There's just so much wrong with the premises it isn't even worth the few minutes to read.
Bad science has a home on slashdot, I see.
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
I have also read, but I can't remember where and it's to friggin early for me to take the time to look it up, that drugs and alchol (certain amounts like a lot) can affect the brains development as an organ keeping it in the state of a younger brain.
This could be, and I think the study even said so, one of the reasons drunks and drug addicts act so immature if they have been doing it for a long time or started when they were kids.
I wonder if the study took enviormental factors such as this into account in the study.
Evolution or ID?
Here is a link to and science program in Australia called Catalyst. I actually managed to watch this episode and this reminded me of it and I was bored enough to google for a link.
t m
What it says is that the brain doesnt mature fully until the age of 25.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/s1424747.h
"I'm going to f***ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again. I'm going to f***ing kill Google"
I wonder what the effect of beer is on maturity and these areas of the brain known to integrate emotion and cognition?
I know after 12 pints I often lose the ability to speak, start dribbling, and crawl around on the floor like a 2 year old ...
"What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death."
(read with tongue in cheeck)
so ehm... they take a bunch of older students as the control group. is that a smart idea? i'd take a bunch of people already working for a while, who have been confronted with Real Life (tm) and have developed into Maturity
I wonder if someone who doesn't move out before a certain age won't have certain brain development, just as someone who hasn't learnt to talk will never talk after a certain age.
;)
In other words, do the experiences of moving out change you or does the brain change naturally?
Also are the effects of alchol and drugs on brain development also taken into account, seeing as these are college freshmen
Slashdot's stories come from elsewhere on the web. Breaking news is reported on many sites around the web. This links to the original Dartmouth souce, as it should, rather than to the place it was first spotted by the submitter, which may well have been Science Daily.
Once you stop drinking like a fish, you start to mature. People who keep hardcore drinking after their college-era stay at ~18 years old in their maturity.
Sound waves should be free!
There has to be a statistical reason why your car insurance is so absurdly high when you're a late teen, with a steady decrease before a significant reduction at the age of 35. Certainly your appetite for risk behind the wheel doesn't completely reflect your all round maturity in life, but I'd suggest a strong correlation.
Aegilops
a) going to college changes your brain
b) being 18 and full of hormones changes your brain
c) both to varying extents
-- "You never mentioned comets before, Mac. This opens up a whole new area of negotiation." - Gordon Urquart
We all know that every single 18 year old, without exception, is an immature, boozing, sex-addict.
I've encountered more immature 18 year olds who are straight-edge sexaphobics than boozing sexaholics. There is a whole segment of our society devoted to making sure children are shielded from any sort of adult social behavior until at least after they graduate college. Are they safe until they finish college? I suppose. Are they prey after that? You betcha.
paintball
Even with all the disclaimers, they had two supportable contentions:
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
I've seen 20 year olds to drive carelessly, doing various wheelies and other tricks on the road, while at the same time many 40 year olds drive very carefully, respecting road signs etc.
Then again I have seen those 20 year olds voting for those politicians that really care about the environment and the world's state, while those 40 year olds voted for their 'connection' that promised them a better job, a bigger loan, more money, etc.
So who is mature after all?
How do you define or measure maturaty for a study? Is it when you stop laughing when someone farts or says penis? Penis.
Can I bum a sig?
If you vote Republican before you are 20, you have no heart. If you vote Democrat after you are 20, you have no brain.
All you are noting is that many people, somewhere along the line, realize that idealism doesn't actually work.
The entire point of the study is meaningless. It's like asking "how much does it cost to buy a house?" Well, some houses are $100,000, some are $1,000,000, some are $10,000,000... Asking "at what age does maturity set in" is the same.
We don't ask "how light does your skin have to be for you to be a genius", since everyone recognizes that prejudging intelligence by skin color is wrong. Why do we persist in asking "how many years old do you have to be for you to be treated as a mature human being"?
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
After 12 pints I am invisible - and Superman !
It is good to see a lot of thoughtful comments here regarding the paper.
If you have any questions for me specifically then please reply to this post and I will try to answer as directly as I can.
Best,
~Craig
Oooh. Isn't that a 30" Cinema Display featured in the picture of the two researchers?
I went to univeristy right after high school and bombed out. Went into the army, the Canadian Army for years after that. Since, during that time, I was never seriously in dannger of losing life or limb, no real maturing happended there (there was a lot of drinking/bar hopping though).
About 8 years later I realized the army wasn't a career. Was I becoming more mature? Nope, the money sucked.
After ditching the army I went back to school and got a CS degree (made dean's list too one year). Mature? nope. well, perhaps. Was able to concentrate although I didn't take it that seriously.
Graduated at the start of the boom, made lots of money, bought fast cars, got married. Did marriage make me 'mature'? nope.
I even bought a house and started a business and made even more money. When I had 9 employees the responsability of having these people depend on me and the business for thier livelyhoods did make me pause a few times. No big deal, the business is going gangbusters no need to truely accept the responsibility. The status quo of immaturity continued thoughout the bust. I even had a couple of kids.
Then the business tanked. Not suddenly but I could have handled it better if I had truely accepted the responsibility from the get go. Now I matured *fast*. took some wrangling (and most of my life savings) but all the *people* got thier due and the bogey man bills got paid.
That left me out of work with little prospect for employment in my town. Little savings left, a big mortgage, and 5 mouths to feed. I was 38 feeling like a 55 year old.
It took a year but I finally got a job paying less than half of what I was making before.
I am a fully mature adult now, scraping to get by. Every cent we spend is carefully accounted for. No money for gadgets, movies, dinners out, vacations. We buy our duds at a used clothing store.
I liked it better when I was immature.
You know, I've read a few of the posts and I am relatively amused. Most of the people who have stated a knowledge of their own immaturity would be shocked to hear that this realization is a mark thereof.
It's the ones who think they've got it all figured out who are usually the most immature.
One thing that maturity has taught me is what a completely immature person I was when I was younger and thought I was mature. Seems like an ongoing process.
...and I'm still waiting.
Still trying to think of a clever sig...
How do they know if they're measuring maturity or if they are seeing how the brain changes when a person has to adapt to significant new living conditions. Rather than just looking at 18 year old college students why not also look at:
14-15 year olds who have been sent off to boarding school.
Children of divorced parents who now move between two households and have to deal with step-families.
Children who have lost their parents and who are now being raised by relatives.
Saying that the brain changes when someone is put into a new situation where they are being forced to become more self-reliant is one thing, but labeling it "maturity" is a bit of a stretch. I know a fair number of pretty immature adults.
Hey, here's an idea - don't give someone the rights of an adult until their brain has gone through these changes! "No, I'm sorry, sir, the brain scan still indicates you are not ready to drink or vote. Shall we make an appointment for another scan next year?"
DD
"Can I finish? Can I finish?
You can see the same thing in the children of alcoholics and the like. Forced to become the responsible adults in the family, they often have to give up on their childhood in the process. Major psychological pitfalls often lie ahead for them.
Personally, I feel every child should have the opportunity to be a child, without major care or responsibility. It's not always been the historical precedent (adolescence, and especially the teenage period are relatively recent inventions within the last century or two), but I think it's been established as something necessary in today's society. Not to say that you shouldn't instill a sense of maturity and responsibility within your kids, but it's more along the lines of keeping their rooms clean and budgeting their allowance, not having to keep up the house finances and ensure that mummy and daddy get tucked into bed after they drink themselves into an alcoholic stupor.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
I would say that most people mature into more stable and "mature" people between 25 and 30. Not that younger people can't make mature decisions, it's just that the consistency starts to set in. Women tend to mature a bit earlier while men hold on to the "crazy" years a bit longer.
Why do you think there's "SpikeTV?"
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Don't worry, it will catch up with them in the end ;)
Mind you, I've had arthritis since I was 15, which has lead to my philosophy on aging: you're never too young to be a geriatric, and never too old to have a happy childhood. Though the walking frame makes skateboarding a bit of a bugger...
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Of course people don't mature until their mid-to-late twenties. Why do you think that the U.S. military takes 18 to 26 year olds during drafts? It's because most 18 to 26 year olds aren't mature enough yet to have a nice, healthy fear of death, paralysis, disfigurement, etc. (This isn't a dig on anybody. I'm eternally grateful for the service of the men and women in the armed forces... it just takes a certain mindset that most people lose as they "mature".)
The Power to Serve
As you have shown, maturity was brought upon by the hefty requirement for survival. What I would wonder is how this might 'erode' over time as the responsibility is lessened, and/or they children are exposed to the more carefree individuals of a similar age.
Moreover, how well do your children interact with children of their own age? I have a family member who adopted a young girl from Russia. She's been with his family for a long time now and you really couldn't much tell where she came from, but in the beginning she seemed to carry a very heavy load.
Also, to you and all who are willing to give these children an extra chance at life: bless you, and may happiness smile upon you and your family.
You're asking slashdot?
doesn't set in until an individual is willing to take responsibility for ALL of their actions, good or bad. I've met young children who are very mature and senior citizens that refuse to take responsibility for anything in their lives.
If "disco" means "I learn" in Latin, does "discothèque" mean "I learn technology"?
Maturity happens through experiances. There is no age for it. I have met 12 year olds who are more mature and functional in the real world then the people I go to college with. It is just a matter of how much criticle thinking you have to do for your own welfare.
I personally think this study is pretty meaningless in order to find out when maturity sets in. Your putting your subjects through a (somewhat) emotionally traumatic event and seeing what effects it has on the brain. The only thing I think this will do is see how does changing from an enviroment where responsibility is on someone else's shoulder to one where it is not effects the brain.
Never could figure out why my girl liked my bitch tits, then I found out she was a lesbian.
During WWII there were teenagers flying fighter planes and officers in their 20s commanding warships. In peace time parents are reluctant to let a teenager take the Volvo and what company would routinely entrust someone in their early 20's with an asset as valuable as a destroyer or attack submarine?
Remove the safety net and people mature quickly, taking on incredible responsibility. Knowing Daddy's lawyer and credit cards can bail you out of trouble retards maturity.
In judging when maturity sets in, this experiment automatically assumes it is when a person goes to college? How is this a legitimate study?