Slashdot Mirror
Sony May Use Downloads To Fight Piracy
Gamaustra reports that Sony may be planning to use game downloads to deter piracy in Asia. From the article: "According to the article, Yasuda is quoted as saying that the 2006 plan of SCE Asia is to construct a PlayStation 3 infrastructure on which software makers can distribute software digitally ... selected developers will get prototype funding from KIPA, and additional post-prototype funding from SCEJ, as well as free technical support and PlayStation 3 development kit rentals. Further online reports have indicated that digital downloads of game material, as currently available for the Xbox 360, should be relatively simple with the PlayStation 3, though details of the PS3's online service are still closely veiled." Kotaku, meanwhile, reports that some Korean developers don't like this idea.
They've already used downloads to fight privacy. Of course, those were secret, involuntary downloads from a CD when inserted into a drive.
I wonder what the rental houses will say about Sony securing their customers safely away from them?
It's asymtotic. The value of "content" as it approaches zero... is still more than free, you retards.
In Soviet Russia, Copyright Controls You!
Seriously, when will it ever end? I think SCO 'Likes Dogs' CEO will join the fray, and I imagine Sony and Him dancing in womens underwear with swords, decapitating teenagers who are listening to tupac downloads.
Oh man, I am off home.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
No wonder they are offended. Oh well, sony getting public relations wrong. Gee, that is a new one.
What I find odd is that no mention is made of how the bloody hell you are going to download games on a machine with no HD. Oh yeah there will an add on but that makes it hardly a tool to deter pirating is it now. Have the game for free OR get a small discount on the game + buy an expensive addon. Now that is an easy choice. I got a great new idea to deter PC pirating. How about you have to upgrade to vista and an ALL new DRM PC and if you do that we knock 10% of the game price.
There is a far simpler move to combat piracy. It involves 3 steps. First game length related to price. Full price == baldur gate type length. 8 hour play time == $4.95... canadian. Second, don't fuck with paying consumers, there is no point copy protection, only paying customers are affected. Finally, make it worth buy the fucking game. I am old but I remember the days when games game with full manuals with listed not just the keys but also had background info. Make it worth opening that box and getting that magic feeling of holding a new game. Who ever invented PDF manual on CD should be shot.
It has been a long time since I was really excited about a new game. Perhaps I am getting to old to game or perhaps recent games just are to meh.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It's not that Korea doesn't like the idea, they just didn't like having their IP belonging to Sony. But guess what, since Sony is footing the bill, of course they own it, much like working at a salary job; everything you make on the clock belongs to your master, unless state otherwise.
Now coming to a console near you!
Everyone knows Valve did this already, and the general consensus seems to be that it blows.
They really screw LAN gamers and people who value their privacy. At work we plan LAN games, but there's no way in hell we're buying 20 copies per game. If you created a Steam login with bogus credentials and forgot your password, guess what? You're boxed game is now worthless. It cannot be re-installed.
Shucks I was looking forward to getting my PS3 games on phonograph like I have for all my other game systems. This digital craze is over the top!
Maybe this is part of how Sony will keep itself from going under.
Build a $800 console, sell it for $500, make up the difference by taking over the IP of developers.
Also, make your console more desireable by promising online titles that you can't get on the X-Box, etc.
All they have to do is hope for developers that are crazy or desperate enough to take them up on the offer.
The game developers have been trying to figure out how to dip into the used game market that the retailers have exclusively owned. This has a lot to do with that, even though the article doesn't mention it. They want people to think it is all about convenience, but a lot of it has to do with defending their ability to sell you the games and not getting taken out of the loop.
...the content will be captured using any of the already available technologies. Then after the capture, the file is stored on a computer running a server applet that will emulate the download service for the PS3. The PS3, oblivious to the fact that it's downloading files from the user's LAN rather than the live internet, installs the software. Later, that same file on the PC will be uploaded using bittorrent or some other means for others to share. In the end, doing almost nothing to thwart piracy.
It is the new car smell idea and it clearly seperates you from the pirate. Remove the goodies and what seperates the buyer from the pirate is that the pirate doesn't have to hunt for the CD or to worry about loosing the key to play the game. Oh and that the pirate has 50 dollar bills still in his pants to stuff down the strippers panties.
WHAT? Yeah like you never had to choose between a game or a stripper. Geez.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The slashdot summary for this article is wildly inaccurate and should be changed immediately. This slashdot story takes two unrelated items and flat out states that one is because of the other. This false claim by Zonk in the article summary entirely changes the nature of the second article.
By reading the article summary, one would immediately come to the conclusion that the plan in the second article which Korean developers reacted negatively to, is the plan which is discussed in the first article. This is not the case.
The first article discusses a comment by a Sony executive who mentioned Sony is considering an XBox Live Arcade like game download service.
The second article discusses an event where Sony offered to publish an MMORPG for the PS3, but offered such one-sided terms that the companies approached were somewhat offended.
Not only are these two unrelated events, but my understanding of the situation is that Sony is not acting in the same capacity in these two events. In the first story, Sony's actions as a platform vendor-- the creator of the Playstation 3 console-- are being discussed. In the second story, Sony's actions as a publisher of games are being discussed. This context is crucial, as the kinds of terms one would consider reasonable for a developer license for the PS3 are entirely different from the kinds of terms one would consider reasonable from a game publisher. The attempt to confuse the two in the article summary destroys that context, altering the meaning of the second article.
Zonk, I assume that this is just a simple error and not an attempt to fabricate news. I hope we can expect you to do the right thing and correct the summary as soon as you can.
Quite aside from the comments made already about the IP bullshit, DRM, and lack of an HDD. What about the logistics of actually downloading?
:P
Currently, games come on DVDs, either single or dual-layered. That's 4.7 or 9 GB. The PS3 is expected to utilize Blu-Ray technology and up the data capacity of data storage many times over.
However, the current pathetic state of home "broadband" in North America is a pitiful 324 kB/s to 5 mB/s for the very lucky few. That's sufficient for surfing the web or fragging online, but it sure as hell ain't going to support Joe Gamer using Comcast in rural America. I'm not willing to sit and download a game for 5 hours or more. I'd rather go to the store and have a physical copy of the game than tie up the console downloading Final Fantasy XIII.
And even if I was willing to let it download (overnight, say), what would my ISP do when it saw me downloading files that large? It would assume I'm pirating movies or games. Now, I agree with those who might contend that last statement is a bit overreaching, but I had to end this somehow.
(but it doesn't matter here)
I actually have a small hardbound book that came with a game, with the game taking up where the book ended.
I dont' recall the game as keeping my interest, though.
hawk
I predict such efforts will be quickly circumvented, using either very cheap materials or practical and easy to use methods.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The game developers have been trying to figure out how to dip into the used game market that the retailers have exclusively owned. This has a lot to do with that, even though the article doesn't mention it. They want people to think it is all about convenience, but a lot of it has to do with defending their ability to sell you the games and not getting taken out of the loop.
But that would take out the whole purpose of having friends in middle school and high school!
My son and his friends probably spend more time showing each other games, giving each other their old games, and trading them than they do playing the games together.
That's what friends are for
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I agree wholeheartedly. I remember the days of the old Origin games, where you got full color maps, supplements, a history to read, etc. It was just fun, and made you feel like you'd got your money's worth. Now, PC games just throw a reference card in (if you're lucky) and have a CD booklet with install instructions. Console games have 5 page manuals, 3 of which include seizure warnings, a blank "notes" page (what the hell for?), and a diagram showing the buttons on the controller that DOESN'T even show what the buttons are used for in that game (it just shows the controller so you know what "A" and "B" refer to). The 2 pages of actual game material are in 20pt font and mostly tell you how to put the disc in the drive.
I remember that too. My recent purchase of Sims 2 for the xBox was very disappointing - they don't even give you any useful cheats, or tell you the basic rules of the game in the console version.
Everyone assumes you're going to buy the book to play it.
I usually do buy the book, but I hate being told I have to. When I got the book for Sims: The Urbz, it turned out half the book was for a PSP/GameBoy version that I wasn't going to be buying. Man, I felt gypped.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
This slashdot article contains a serious error. So far the parent to this comment is the only comment in this thread to point out the error; and the only response so far has been to mark the comment as "offtopic". I do not think the moderator who did this actually read the comment he was moderating.
Sony is pushing BluRay with the PS3. They seem to think they need 30 GB of storage for a single game. This presents several problems. AFAIK, the PS3 will not come with a hard drive. Where are these games going to be stored? Even if they add a hard drive, what happens if you want to own more than 2 or 3 games? Then, there is the bandwidth problem. How many servers and T1 lines are they going to need? What happens when a hit game comes out and everybody tries to download it at the same time?
Sony is trying to tell the world that they need BluRay. Now they are saying that you can download games. So why do I need BluRay again?
I agree whole-heartedly. It is a lot easier to carry your game and maybe a memory card over to a friend's house than your whole console. I would hate to see used games and rentals go away. A lot of simple-minded games only need to be played for one or two evenings for full enjoyment, but sometimes that's all we're looking for. But even games that don't allow memory cards to be used have caused us to have to do that in order to continue on in someone's current game. they should at least allow you to move the game if they don't want you to be able to make copies...
How can that be?!
However, the current pathetic state of home "broadband" in North America
The article isn't talking about doing it in North America though.
More likely as a candidate would be South Korea, where broadband is indeed both plentiful and high-speed.
And what's the point of owning a Ferrari if everyone has one?
Because in Russia, Ferrari drives YOU!
I'm sorry, I can't really articulate it into words, but Sony are in trouble this gen if the latest reports are true. Just a gut instinct. No news about the PS3 release date yet.. Going to scrape a US launch this year? I'm thnking it's starting to seem doubtful, especially with all the bleeding edge tech they are looking to put in. My money (all fanboyism aside - I own all the major consoles, and always will do) is on the Revolution this time round. I can just smell the market is ripe for the attitude Ninty are taking on this. But I don't care who wins as long as I get some kick ass gaming in the next 18 months, I'm getting bored of my Vectrex...
Currently, games come on DVDs, either single or dual-layered. That's 4.7 or 9 GB.
The PC FPS .kkrieger comes as a zipfile. That's 0.000096 GB. Not all games have to be huge, and procedural synthesis is one tool to compress games to a decent download time.
Sony is trying to tell the world that they need BluRay. Now they are saying that you can download games. So why do I need BluRay again?
Because there are two genres: games that need Blu-ray and games that don't. Say you have 1 Mbps DSL (common in the United States). An hour of "shipping" will result in 360 MB of game data; remember that a lot of PS2 games still came on CD. Of course, high-definition games will need bigger textures, but remember that the PS3's faster CPU speed and DSP architecture makes it easy to do procedural synthesis and refinement of models and textures, just as the PS2 made it easy to do cut scenes as game-engine scripts instead of FMV. Can you say .kkompression?
Simple.
Because people keep BUYING the games without them.
Artwork, maps, and the like are an added expense. And as long as customers are willing to whine, moan, and complain... but keep buying the product... why would you expect publishers to do otherwise?
Things like this are why I got out of gaming when I sold my C-64. Sure, the graphics have gotten better. But is there anyone here who can honestly say that the game play has improved so much that it's worth being treated like a thief on the one hand and an open wallet on the other?
Is it just me or does the Sony vs Korea article sound errily like a recording contract ? Publisher finances project, publisher decides ultimate fate of product, publisher controls distribution, publisher takes all revenue until "expenses" are paid, then splits the "profits".
Won't this lead to beautiful garbage in the market, as game houses have their jobs and investment secured by Sony and KIPA funding (at least in the short term) ?
-Billco, Fnarg.com
The description of the terms given to the Korean developers sound like the terms that music artists have to put up with. First Sony and KIPA will front part of the development costs, then once published the "profit" (i.e. money in sales minus anything sony wants to charge them for)goes to pay back Sony's part of thier investment. Of course, if the accounting is anything like it is in the movie/music business, no game will make a profit, and then KIPA will claim the game quality was "low" and demand it's money back from the developer too.
Bluray discs hold 25GB per layer and supposedly use 2 layers on average.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
The idea of allowing only DRMed downloads for distribution in high-piracy areas was implemented earlier with Nintendo's iQue system.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Do you really expect developers to completely retool their games in order to use procedurals just for the asian market?
Do you really expect Sony not to bring PS3 Live Arcade to the North American and European markets?
For me, the only real incentive (as opposed to plan generousness) to pay for a game is the "added value" stuff -- i.e., the physical parts (like the game disk, manual, etc.) that are the only difference between a legal version and an illegal downloaded copy. It's the same for movies and music -- I'm much more likely to buy a CD than to use iTunes (or even allofmp3) because I want the physical disk and the cover artwork and whatnot.
In other words, information is [should be] free, because it's infinitely reproducable at zero cost, so I'm not about to pay for mere information. I don't mind buying a physical artifact with information on it, however, because I still feel like I'm buying a thing.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
I hate STEAM. Good idea, terrible implementation.
This may be of interest: steamless.
CRUSADER!