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H&R Block Goofs on Its Own Taxes
omar.nyc writes "Red Herring reports tax preparation giant H&R Block, manufacturer of TaxCut and other tax software, goofed on its own taxes. The miscalculation on its state income taxes are liable by $32 million. This will reduce Block's fiscal year 2005 earnings by $0.02 per share and $0.02 per share in fiscal year 2004." From the article: "Besides the problems that Block had with its own tax prep needs, the company also experienced difficulties with the technology in its offices last month that hit its bottom line early in tax season. 'Technology problems across the H&R Block network in early January impacted our ability to serve clients in those crucial early weeks,' said Block Chairman Mark A. Ernst. He said the problems had been corrected, but they impacted the company's ability to serve 250,000 clients at that time of year."
first post ON DIGG FIRST http://digg.com/links/H_R_Block_Goofs_on_Its_Taxes ..._By_$32_Million
asdf
hope they paid for the insurance!
They should really have someone professional do their taxes.
This is amusing and all, but is it really news for nerds? It's barely even stuff that matters.
According to H&R Block's website;
http://www.hrblock.com/
"Fast Money
Walk into an office with your taxes, and walk out with an Instant Money Refund Anticipation loan check. Up to $9,999 based on your refund amount. Money in your hands fast."
People, don't ever EVER get your tax refund this way. You may be in a financial jam or just impatient to get your money, but this is sure way to loose your money in a blink of an eye, and possibly the most stupidist thing you can ever do. The % you loose due to interest rate for loan in this case is highly unregulated and its easy to get scammed.
Here is a quick article on pending lawsuit against H&R Block in California, posted on MSNBC.
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/11373754/
Just wait 3 weeks and get your full refund (if you don't owe that is), or ready to get charged 500% on that refund.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
It's stock already dropped in price from it http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/ticker/article.as p?Feed=AP&Date=20060224&ID=5532454&Symbol=US:HRB
With Congress, the ones who engineered this incomprehensible beast of a code which is volumes long and confusing enough that even a large tax-filing corporation can get caught by it.
Personally, I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect to avoid becoming a criminal with more laws on the books than can possibly be read in a human lifespan. I am completely unacquainted with 99% of the laws in this country, and for all I know I may have unwittingly violated a fair portion of those.
The law should be terse enough for Joe Schmoe to learn it all in a high school class or in a few weeks of diligent study. Anything more is just plain unreasonable.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
IIRC, there are 480 US tax forms and 6,000 pages of tax law containing 75 million words.
After a few years of TurboTax, I went with the cheaper TaxCut this year, paying for both Federal and State programs. The Federal is OK if a bit sparse with explanations. The State is just awful, even by the low standards of state income tax software.
When I told it I was a part-year resident (awfully common for young people who move a lot) it simply told me to hunt down (on my own) and fill out a series of Ohio tax forms and then feed it the results after I'd done practically all of the work manually! The State program turned out to be little more than a glorified word processor this year.
So...who wants to bet that H&R Block wouldn't use its own software to calculate 2+2, much less state taxes?
Make cheese not war 8:)
H&R Block do people's personal taxes. I think you can probably trust them with that task, most of the time.
Company taxes are a whole different thing. The rules are different, are more complex, and change often. In many instances, the rules are somewhat rubbery, but what you can get away with will come down to how good your lawyers are. Also, while H&R Block staff do the taxes of hundreds of thousand of people every year, their accountants only do the company taxes once a year. Mistakes are likelier.
So there's no "irony" here, nor is there any "comeuppance". It's just a common bookkeeping error.
Of course, it can't be as simple as just simplying the tax laws -- every industry has their own favorite exemption or quirk that they've been lobbying for -- but boy, would it be nice if the tax laws were uber-simple. Something like "plug in total assets and total change in assets since last year, and find tax".
A friend pointed out today that if the typical American worker wastes a single day on taxes, that's hundreds of thousands of man-years wasted every year.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
That's a roundabout way of saying "couldn't"
They should have bought TurboTax.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
I heard they even went along with themselves to their own IRS hearing -- not as a legal representative, but to explain the tax laws.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
My dad bought a copy of their software (both state and federal professional versions). The federal was OK, but they were extremely slow about releasing some forms we required. The state, at least for CO, was making up random numbers and calculations, as far as we can tell. It would say "Copy box ___ from the federal return", and enter in some random number in the $2,000-range when that box on the federal return was $0. He's currently playing phone tag with their high level support - it's impossible to talk to someone intelligent there.
The first time he was playing phone tag with them, they left a message on our machine saying basically "Sorry we missed you, since we couldn't get a hold of you we're going to go ahead and close this support ticket."
Do you mean editors as in slashdot, or proper ones?
So as you can see, H&R block did nothing wrong. Nothing to see here.
"He was a wise man who invented beer." - Plato
No problem, we could switch over to the Flat Tax very quickly. Take your income, subtract your personal and dependent deductions (well over $40K for a family of four), and pay a percentage of what's left (usually 17% in American proposals). Besides saving $billions in labor, it will likely increase compliance as it will be less worthwhile to dodge it.
Unfortunately, reformers are split between the Flat Tax and Fair Tax, aka national sales tax. The problem with the Fair Tax plan is that it will require the repeal of the income tax amendment, which will take years under the best circumstances. The Flat Tax requires no constitutional changes. At the very least the Flat Tax could be used as a stopgap measure. Then there's the slight problem of Congress losing the ability to sell tax loopholes to lobbyists (awww). Personally I think wiping out the source of much of the corruption in Washington is a Good Thing.
Wikipedia Flat Tax.
If anything this should give people a clue that the tax system is broken. Not only is it overly complicated it also a fraud perpetuated on the American people. It relies on ignorance and to some extent class warfare to continue in its current form.
Watch politicians. They will consistenly play up the fact that corporations don't pay their fair share while conviently relying on the fact that any taxes paid by a corporation are paid by its customers. It is this embedded taxaxtion that hides the true amount of tax load that is place on every citizen of the country. The best time to witness the hypocrisy of Congress is when certain corporations report their profit. The Congressmen will make big speeches about how all that money is being "stolen" from the American people and that the profits are obscene whereas the only obscenity is Congress's appetite for OUR money. They love to ignore the profit per share which is the true measure of a corporations profitability all because they know most Americans are ignorant of how the system works.
The system is made so complex to keep the dirty little secret from being easily identifiable. If the Congress and Administration were truly after true tax reform they would make the system transparent. This can be done in one of two ways. A flat tax or a National Sales Tax (aka The Fair Tax). While neither system is perfect they both offer something that the current system doesn't and that is transparency.
Besides being overly complex, which results in hundreds of billions from individuals and corporations to stay in compliance, it is chocked full of exceptions for every little group that manages to bend Congresses's ear. They have created a self sustaining system. Groups give money as gifts and reelection money to maintain their status. None of them have the people's intrest in their hearts, not Congress, not the Administration, and certainly not these groups.
It is a total fraud.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
With the help of large banking institutions like BankOne, mom and pop accounting businesses can offer RALs and other financial products as an added service to their tax prep customers. In the wrong hands this can become part of the shady underbelly of the tax world and ranks up there with your local check cashing institution, rent-to-own store, and pawn shop (sometimes all at the same address).
Many of these programs are targeted at people who live paycheck-to-paycheck and don't have the education or experience to discern a good deal from a really bad one.
As nerds, geeks, and know-it-alls, I think we can help the situation by offering assistance to those in need. Help someone in need set up a bank account, do their own 1040-EZ, and understand that a properly file refund can usually be direct deposited in less than a month. The IRS and others sponsor programs to help connect smart people like you to those who need help doing their taxes.
The miscalculation on its state income taxes are liable by $32 million.
Ummm, guys, that is NOT how the English language works.
kartune85 : Incapable of reason, observation or learning. A kind of dim, drab, flightless parrot.
I have a friend who owns an H&R block franchise, and they have been screwing them. Instead of giving the employees a browser based tax app, they instist on installing local copys of their crappy software each year. It is buggy as hell, and the user interface blows (IMHO).
Also, they are now insisting that they set up theese dinky Wal-Mart kiosks. Yes, they might get extra revenues, but franchise holders who already are running at full capacity are forced to take on more than they can handle.
H&R block needs to get its act together and:
(1) Create a browser based application that has been thouroughly tested by user interface professionals, not just their tax lawyers and software engineers. This would save franchise holders thousands in IT costs and most of the headache. The only downside I can see is that the IRS will scratch its head and wonder, "Why don't we make a user friendly web based tax form?", and H&R block would have to lobby like hell to keep the IRS from introducing "Socialized government competition into the billion dollar tax preparation market". (cough... bu||sh*t cough...)
(2)Properly compensate francises for their new Walmart ventures. Right now many have the choice of hiring compenent and very expensive temp management help which really cuts into profits, or go insane commuting between Walmart and the main office.
bash-2.04$
bash-2.04$yes "Don't you hate dialup connections?"| write USERNAME
I worked as an accounting technician for a year, did small business accounting and small business and personal tax preparation.
So when a good friend was operating a small contract fence business I offered to do his books for him for free and to teach him how to have everything in order for the next year. By my calculations he owed about $400 above what his regular Mon-Fri job had already paid in. Unfortunately he felt that going to H&R was safer , so ( secretly , so as not to hurt my feelings ) he went and had his taxes done there.
Not only did they charge him $200 for the privelege , they screwed up and disallowed all his business deductions, said he owed $1400.
H&R has little reason to get you every last penny you can , they operate on volume. Besides , that way there is no chance of them being even glanced at by the auditors since they know that they're far too cautious.
Besides anyone who charges $30 for doing basic income taxes on modern return software is cheating. You enter what , 5 or 6 numbers and click "Print/send" ?
The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist.
It's just a common bookkeeping error
Just tell that to Enron.
I find it most interesting that virtually all 'honest' accounting mistakes are in favor of the person/company making the mistake. I'm not saying that H&R block had any intention to get away with fraud at some point, but it is an interesting phenominon.
The term "Technology problems" is very broad... what does this mean? What software are they using?
Twinstiq, game news
Personally, I don't see how anyone can reasonably expect to avoid becoming a criminal with more laws on the books than can possibly be read in a human lifespan. I am completely unacquainted with 99% of the laws in this country, and for all I know I may have unwittingly violated a fair portion of those.
This is a really BIG picture issue.
Not some trivial idiotic shit, like do we build a windmill farm on Ted Kennedy's Hyannisport compound, or how do we save the snail darter by driving the Klamath Farmers out of bidness?
This question of "just what the hell is in our God-damned federal code, anyway?" could in and of itself be the basis for the next civil war.
And the truth of the matter is that NO ONE KNOWS WHAT'S IN THERE. If you sat down to read all umpteen thousand pages of the federal code from beginning to end, you'd barely be a few hundred pages through it before Congress & the Executive had altered it, and you'd have to start over at the beginning to see what had changed.
Google Sisyphus and Rock.
Seriously, this question of the DC elites using umpteen gazillion pages of legalistic nonsense to turn us into their 21st century serfs could very well be the straw that breaks the camel's back.
I've never felt compelled to post before, but H&R Block screwed up both my return and my father's. We filed at the same session! There was absolutely nothing out of the ordinary about our returns, except that I had an education claim because I was in school at the time. The fact that they screwed up my dad's return probably bothers me the most. Needless to say, we've never used H&R Block again.
FOAD H&R Block.
I went to HRBlock this year for the second time, but in a different state than last year (US state, not state of mind). I went there because I'd had HRBlock do it last year, and thought they could pull up my previous information. No dice. A national chain company (well, mostly franchises) using all the same software on a network but there's no way to get the information between offices. Unless that changes next year, I will probably not use them again.
creation science book
I pay for it and like it. TurboTax was fractionally better, but after they disrespected their customers so badly with the copy protection stuff, I'm done with them.
Can you recommend a browser-based piece of software that is better? I have to admit I don't exactly explore all options each year, so maybe I'm just missing the better options.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Some of law isn't that bad -- it's common sense. I can't rattle off the exact set of laws delineating what constitutes murder, but I know that if I don't kill anyone, I'm probably going to be okay.
This doesn't apply to some large (and important) chunks of law, like tax law. However, it does help.
Sometimes, however, there are things that are counterintitive, and in civil law, things are less clear (which affects trademarks, copyright, employment contracts, etc).
For example, "Suppose V is drowning. D, an Olympic swimmer (and, coincidently, trained in lifeguard techniques), is standing on the side of the pool, and could easily rescue V. However, D hates V and chooses not to do so. Instead, he stands and points, laughing at V, as V dies. Is V legally liable?" And, if V is just an ordinary bystander, he may be an asshole, but he's not a criminal -- what he did is perfectly legal.
On the other hand, if D yells "I'll get him", then hops in the pool, decides that he doesn't actually want to do so, and then jumps back out, he probably *is* liable.
This sort of situation will come up where there's no time to refer to a lawbook, so you don't have the excuse of being able to look up anything.
The worst is when we have laws that are the result of politics. These usually are worthless and add complexity without benefit.
For example, US criminal code can be found under Title 18.
Now, some of these are probably necessary. Arson, okay. Assault, okay. Why do we need a "Biological Weapons" section and a "Chemical Weapons" section? Why can't we just have a "Weapons" section? Why do we need a "Criminal Street Gangs" section? Why do we need a "Genocide" section? How about "Partial Birth Abortions"? Why does "Sexual Exploitation and Other Abuse of Children" have a completely unrelated "Misleading domain names on the Internet" section beneath it? Why is there a "Terrorism" section -- surely, bombing people is already illegal?
All of these things pop up because some group decided to lobby for it, it became a hot topic in the media, and we decided to add a "fix".
Oh, and why do half these laws exploit the Interstate Commerce clause that was never, ever intended to let Congress do anything other than ensure free trade between the states? It's a federal crime to transport someone between states for illegal prostitution (Ch 117, S2421). How about we just let the *state* in which the prostitution is illegal do the charging, mmmkay? To do otherwise is nothing other than a power grab.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
That's what the MebiByte fuckers did with hard drive space, and we all know how much I hate them.
Uh, no. The *hard drive* manufacturers started using decimal units (which, while obviously unintuitive and irritating and profitable for them, does at least make SI sense).
Other people who wanted some degree of consistency (and not two different types of "MB"), pushed for the use of "MiB".
You want to blame someone, blame Seagate, not the IEEE.
Any program relying on (nontrivial) preemptive multithreading will be buggy.
What, did they have trouble with their third molars?
"affected," not "impacted." More marketroid-speak...
Howdy friends, Josh here with another pro-small business rant. Why support the "WalMart" of accounting? As a small business owner, I would not dare waste my time attempting my own taxes, my fiance's, or my business's. I'm not stupid, mind you, but lazy. I have no interest in "games" and "cheats"- I just want to be left alone to earn a fair living for myself and my family. I am one of those "young idealists" who believes a man can live well without having to comit crimes against decency against his fellow man. And yeah yeah, man as in "mankind". Like any women come near this site anyway. Anyhow, my local accountant is great. I won't even name her, as she is already satisfied with her current clientelle (and this is still her "busy time"). She charges more than H&R block, but she also does far more: she greets me with a hug, answers my phone calls, and takes the time to explain how "the system works" and what I need to do to protect my stakeholders. McDonalds is tasty, and can't be beat for a $5 pricetag. However, once in a while I am happy to buy a steak. It's you dollar, friends. It's your power. Peace.
Math is math. Regular expression is regular expression. The tools are there. The future is now.
Eliminating the mortgage deduction would severly crimp the housing market. Don't look for that to happen soon.
If you were to move to something like that, you'd have to phase it in VERY gradually.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
In Australia, the Australian Tax Office (ATO, similar to the IRS in the USA) GIVES people tax software, for free. It's like an interview; it asks questions, you answer them, then it securely sends your tax return to the ATO over the internet. Easy!
AC wrote: "What is this "bight" you speak of?"
m
...
...
Perhaps this?
http://www.iland.net/~jbritton/bowlineonabight.ht
After all, the government may attack us with teeth, but ropes (on necks) are more conventional, at least since the invention of the gallows
However, tax crimes nowadays don't generally involve a sentence of death. (Which, since the bowline on a bight slips easily, might make it the perfect knot for a symbolic hanging
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
Example of H&R Block customer service:
... it's *available*, I'm using it, but it is stuck in a loop. It asks like three income questions, then goes back to the beginning. There is no way around it.
...
...
Me: The online state tax interview is stuck in an endless loop.
HRBlock: Please wait for your state product to be available, then choose it, and complete it. Enjoy!
Me: Um
HRBlock: Use the jump menu to jump to any part of the interview. Enjoy!
Me: Is this thing on? It won't let me jump past income, but that's actually good, because I kind of suspect that there's more to income than just Schedule D
HRBlock: Please take this survey and let us know how great our service is
... to yield "progressive" to mine enemies ;)
...)
However, I'm thinking of a new bumper sticker:
"Soak the rich -- they expand in water!"
I'm for taxes (to the extent that I can be for taxes) only to the degree that they're flat. Flat flat flat. No deductions, no loopholes. (However, I've yet to read some of the interesting other ideas out there wrt to variants on flat taxing
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5