Slashdot Mirror
Recovering From the Xbox 360's Big Mistakes
Two pieces up in the media right now talking about problems with the Xbox 360. Games.net has an overdramatically title piece, Five Ways to Save the Xbox 360. The article lays out ways in which Microsoft should revamp the console and its games in order to truly dominate the next-gen war. Meanwhile, a 1up editorial asks the question Is the Xbox 360 Hurting the Games Industry? The article looks at the ways in which Microsoft's console was rushed out the door, and the negative consequences that may have on the industry as a whole. From that article: "More important, though less remarked upon, is that the Xbox 360 was also launched before the industry was ready. If you pay attention to companies' end-of-year financial reports, which I'm sad to say my job requires me to do, one thing that stands out in the postholiday reckoning was the statement, again and again, that the Xbox 360 launch had hurt sales across the industry."
I claim this frist poist for Spain!
True, there are really no games that I want and there have been no games worth mentioning since launch. However, remember last year with the Nintendo DS? The system launched with like 2 good games. It wasn't until at least 6 months later that anything worth wild came out. For me it was Meteos and Advanced Wars Duel Strike. When Nintendo 64 came out there was only 2 games for a few months to choose from. With that said it takes time for stuff to come that is worth playing. With that said I'm not holding my breath for xbox360. I'm still waiting for Sony and Nintendo.
-Dipster
I think a more interesting question is "why aren't more games being released?" Are the publishers worried that the 360 supply shortage has created a market that just isn't worth taking risks on? Are game creators having a difficult time creating bug free 360 games? Or is this launch just like the PS2 and DS etc. in that it wasn't until 6 months so till good games actually start coming out....
Monstar L
...not manufacturing enough of the consoles in time. Only this weekend have the "Core" systems become generally available in my area and the "Premium" systems with the hard drive & other goodies will become available on a more regular basis later this week.
Bill Clinton: Pimp we can believe in. - The Shirt!!!
GTA 4 ??? What rock does this guy live under? If I am not mistaken following the GTA family tree >>> GTA:Vice City was #4, GTA:San Andreas was #5 and GTA:Liberty City Stories is #6....... what gives... not to mention Rockstar Games would never sell out to M$.
I'll wait until I get a XBox 360 for $100 USD. Heck, I'm still waiting for the regular XBox to drop to $100 USD. Something wrong with this picture.
Do you actually own a 360, or is that just an impression?
For my part, I bought the thing specifically to play the xbox live arcade games that I'd heard so much about: geometry wars, marble blast, etc. Since then, I've discovered another 5 or 7 games that make me totally happy with the purchase -- and each one of those games cost $10 or less.
I also spent $60 on madden 2006, and have played it for a total of about 10 minutes. That purchase I do regret.
So maybe the "problem" is that the downloadable games favor cheaper, more fun, easier to produce games over huge, expensive, marketing-driven games. Less revenue for game developers, but less expense and more fun for consumers. I'm just not going to lose sleep over that one.
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
Where I am it's still sunday morning.
As far as I'm concerned, the 360 wasn't launched before it was ready, but before the manufacturing process was ready - not really a point for failure. Software always comes later and the game certification issues sound like classic come-to-market problems. However here in the UK, we also suffered from PSP shortages, although not to the same extent. Sony launched the PSP here over a year behind its Japanese launch, and we still seem to have a certain lack of decent games for it - month in month out I go to the shops and it's the same damn games!
That said, I own a 360 and I really like it. I didn't get mine in the first wave - there were only something like 50,000 allocated to the whole UK - but I did pick one up in early January and so far I'm pleased with what it does. Ok, so there's no 'killer' game, but I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer, but the few games I do have I find entertaining and great fun with friends. I'm not realy 100% sure what people mean by a 'next generation game', I bought the console specifically for its online capabilities and its ability to be a media extender. In those respects it's very, very good, and Nintendo and Sony have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Xbox Live.
I'd be interested as to what people exactly thought the 360, PS3 and Revolution were going to do for gaming really. Every time a console is released a wave of hype about its features appears. We never really found out what an Emotion Engine enabled the PS2 to do differently, and ditto for the obilgatory USB/keyboard/hard-drive attachments that are mooted for each machine. The PS3 for me seems a little ambitious and I'm a bit too old school to like the Revolution controller (I'm saying that without obviously having used one, the opinion may change). All I bought my 360 for was to play HD games against other people in my lounge and the rest of the world, and in those respects it's been a success for me, and evidently for all the other people I'm playing against...
The rest of Slashdot is either out on hot dates, or involved in Bible study.
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
I don't mean that as a troll, but that's an awful lot of money. Sure, the controller does make a difference, and there's something to be said for hanging out on the couch, but if you're playing the equivalent of 80's arcade games, it seems kind of silly that you're so focused on the cheap 'bonus' games.
I have a friend who is seriously interested in Oblivion which, for him, would require a major update of his PC, so the 360 is tempting him. But when I ask him about other games, he only lists games that he's sure are going to be out sometime in the future. Well, it's poor planning to bank on future games -- why not wait until those games are actually released, so you can actually play them?
I mean, more power to you for having fun with the 360. It just seems like the biggest draw to the system uses really none of the "big, new technology" that commands such a high price tag.
I think you seem to have forgotten that San Adreas ran on Windows and Xbox.
FYI
So really, it's just the dev times are different for hardware vs the software. Most developers only get kits about a year out from the time the system launches, and often the kits aren't finalized. Given that it takes, on average, about 2 years for a solid game to be made in the current generation of consoles, it's no surprise that the 1st year is typically slow with few worthwhile games. It seems even more ironic given that the first year(s) are when the system costs the most, and is the hardest to find.
The 360 makes development an expensive proposition. Firstly, there are the higher-resolution textures and more detailed modelling that are required for HDTV output, then there is the need to tweak the graphics so that they look decent on standard TVs which most customers are using for now (it will be a while before HDTVs make it into the average kid's bedroom). Also, developers need to buy new devkits and adapt to a new architecture, which is a significant investment in time and money.
All of this, without a significant market for 360 games at the moment. Who knows how many people will end up adopting next-gen hardware in the short term? There is certainly very little incentive to produce games for the XBox 360 right now.
The sad thing is that the same will occur with the PS3. Development will be even more expensive due to the convoluted Cell architecture, and the release price is looking to be prohibitive for all but the most hard-core gamers. The Revolution isn't much better, as it is an absolute wildcard that could flop dramatically, and porting games to use its unorthodox controller will be a real challenge (unless the standard-controller "shell" ships with the console).
All-in-all, things aren't too positive for developers that want to take a chance on the next generation, and there are plenty of people who will still be buying games for their PS2, XBox or Gamecube for some time yet.
I see a lot of comparisons between the 360 launch and the PS2 launch. If you do some searching on Slashdot and Google, you can find several articles that talk about some of the general PS2 launch issues and the hardware problems the console had.
Should Microsoft had learned from Sony's mistakes? Sure. Unfortunately, it's repeated a lot of the same problems: 1) Supply doesn't meet demand, 2) Lack of a killer launch title, 3) Hardware problems. (Actually, I think a lot of the 3rd issue could be solved with better messaging to buyers. Don't put the power brick in an enclosed space! Don't put your 360 on top of your already-warm TV! Otherwise, these same folks are going to have the same problem with the PS3 and Revolution)
Anyway, so the 360 launch has the same issues as the PS2 launch. Yet we know how the PS2 ultimately dominated this console generation, so they are definately not insurmountable problems. Anyone (including the media), who is already forecasting doom and gloom for the system needs to be realistic. The real battle is going to be months from now, when the other consoles are released. The key for the 360 is going to be how the next round of games do (Gears of War, Oblivion, etc.), and winning those GTA3-level exclusives.
-- jchenx
The only thing the XBox 360 has hurt is Sony and Nintendo's pride. They didn't take it seriosuly enough and MS beat them to market by a wide margin, with decent (but not great) launch titles (better launch titles than the PS2 ever had though). Oh yeah, and MS has the first real online gaming service with downloadable games that people seem to be flocking to.
I can't fathom that in a week where all the talk has been about how much longer the PS3 is going to be delayed and that it'll cost around $800, people are still trying to say that it's the fault of a next-gen console that's already to market and costs half of what the PS3 apparently will, that is "hurting" the games industry.
So the 360 has the PSU issue? Big deal -- the PS1 had a CD-ROM issue where if you had to ever replace your original one it would no longer fit in your case... the PS2 had issues scratching discs and sometimes outiright destroying DVD movies, as well as several fire-related recalls... this happens when you ship a product to a lot of people.
What's hurting the game industry is Nintendo's constant rehashing of games by slapping "Mario" on the start of the title, and Sony's outright hostility towards their customers and lack of grounding in reality.
That and the fanboy writers who can't swallow their pride and admit that they didn't take MS seriously enough ever since the original XBox, and are getting proven wrong in having so much faith in Sony (who, right now mind you, has exactly the same number of shipped console products as MS has -- two. It's not like Sony is Nintendo or something and been around forever in the gaming console industry, when you think about it).
Gaming is the only industry I've ever seen where the consumers HATE competition and the benefits it reaps them, I swear... all because they can't get past their pre-pubescent-ish fanboy loyalties.
The XBox was only able to drag its own sales down, but the XBox 360 is dragging down the sales of the entire industry. The power!!!
Twinstiq, game news
first off, I don't own a 360 or even an original xbox. I do own a PC however, which I use for most of my gaming.
Now even though I don't own a 360, I own a wired 360 controller and headset. Why? because it's one of the best controllers you'll find on the PC, and the headset works great with teamspeak and allows me to use my speakers for actual game sounds while solely communicating through the headset.
That being said, all of the other features, like Media Center functionality, future Vista support for Xbox Live profiles as well as PC peripheral functionality and a solid online gaming service really makes me think about making this my next console since the Dreamcast. The only thing I'm waiting for is to see how well the home brew community expands on it, Particularly since xbox live is somewhat encouraging small developers to make games on it with it's arcade service.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
So technically are we talking about game engines or actual titles, because it was NOT mentioned in the article that he was refering to a game engine, just names.
...until the next tiers of its release come out. This is being posted as AC because I got this info from an MS insider last night (part of their surveying and testing groups) who was drunk enough to start chatting openly, so listen up:
Currently, the plan is to introduce MORE TIERS of Xbox 360 in the next 12 months. Thought the two current versions were bad enough? Supposedly, three more are coming--set to introduce bigger hard drives and MS Media Center functionality, along with "more HD support" (though I didn't understand that last part--does that mean an HD-DVD drive included? Or 1080p? He didn't explain, but whatever). In short, the next Xbox 360s, whether it's one or even three versions, will double as TiVos. Anybody know more about this? Or was this guy just a drunko spouting lies? Either way, an interesting idea to spark the system's life after a botched debut when the PS3 is finally afoot...
After going to a talk at Stanford by the chief architect of the Cell processor, I'm convinced that the Cell people don't know how to use their array of eight little 256K CPUs for gaming. The speaker was clear on how you did things like RF processing for cell sites, but asked about what to do in games, said "that's Sony's problem". Remember, in the PS3, the Cell processors don't do the graphics; there's an NVidia chip for that. In the PS2, the vector processors do the graphics. From a developer perspective, these wierd machines are a huge pain. What we'd like is a multicore shared memory multiprocessor with a good graphics chip, so we can work on the game software instead of fussing with the hardware. From a business perspective, wierd architecture means that game profitability comes later in the life cycle of a console. Not good.
Second, there really is no XBox 360 shortage. Want one? Go to eBay. 1461 systems for sale today. Core system prices are steady, around $325. When and if Microsoft gets their production problems straightened out, will anybody care? Probably not, until a nice big price cut. Now, at $199...
Third, the attempt by the consumer electronics industry to put a premium price tag on HDTV players and drives may be a major flop. DVD players are going for $29 and up. Blu-Ray players at $500 to $1000 are overpriced. Lots of people can't tell the difference, anyway. It's amusing to visit the display of large-screen TVs at Fry's. Most of them are displaying the same signal, which is from an HDTV source, but about half of the "HDTV" units are actually getting their video from an NTSC signal. Most customers don't notice the difference. Sometimes the NTSC pictures look better, because the blurring masks the motion compression artifacts.
What this all looks like is a desperate attempt by the consumer electronics industry to push prices up. Way up. Probably won't work.
Too bad correlation does not equal causation.
OMG, my eyes. How can you advertise a page using comic sans?
Th3 p41n...
Truth arises more readily from error than from confusion. -Francis Bacon
Well, what can I say? I'm more into gameplay than how many pixel shaders or polygons are being used onscreen. I *could* play the hottest, fanciest games that take (more) advantage of the expensive hardware... but they just don't look like that much fun to me.
So, yeah, my life would have been perfectly complete with a PC, a decent USB control, a usb headset, and Ventrillo. Oh, assuming I cound find games with a similar level of fun gameplay and people online to play them with.
But, for me, it was worth $500 or so to be able to just plunk down in front of the TV, open a beer, start Marble Blast, and get my ass handed to my by some obnoxious kid halfway around the world.
So I stand by my point: the "problem" is illusory, and is in fact a good thing for consumers. Making gameplay and word of mouth more important for a game's success has led to cheaper, more fun games. If EA is losing out because they're institutionally incapable of delivering either 1) a fun game, or 2) any game at all with less than 250 people on the team making it, it's not going to keep me up at night.
Mark my words: availability of inexpensive, fun downloadable games is going to do the same thing to EA and the other big producers that cable TV's myriad of channels did to the big networks. And that is a Good Thing.
-b
If I wanted a sig I would have filled in that stupid box.
The worst thing about the 360 release was the piece-of-garbage headset they gave us with the 360, instead of the far superior headset from the original XBox Live kit.
Microsoft doesn't even SELL a good replacement for this, and old headsets don't work unless you buy a new one, cut off the wedge piece, and solder connections to the mute and volume controls.
Other than that, and not having any for people to buy, it's a great platform. It won't even be a topic for discussion when Halo3 comes out, it will be a requirement.
..Jeff Keegan
seven syllables explain TiVo: kee gan dot org slash ti vo
(posting AC so I can still mod) Supporting the platform now helps ensure that those future games make it out. That's what still puzzles me about the Xbox's failure. It had so much potential, so much power and such elaborate tools... and yet people with your mentality killed it.
If you like something, support it. MS can afford to take a hit on its consoles if it sees that they're selling. What matters is market presence. But now that Sony has the power and MS has the tools/environment (IMO, mind you), I think actual games deserve more attention than potential games.
Early 2000, deep inside Bill Gates' Secret Lab under Lake Washington.
Bill Gates: Steve, what I'm about to show you may shock you to your very core. It's going to change the face of computing, nay, technology, as we know it. You may want to sit down.
Steve Ballmer: I would, but you've removed all the chairs from the room.
Bill Gates: ...yes. Well, just stand then. Stand, and behold, for like Prometheus giving fire to mankind, we are about to unleash upon the world... The Optical Mouse!!!
Steve Ballmer: Like those old Apple II mice, with the little camera inside?
Bill Gates: (Rolls eyes) Mice have two buttons Steve.
Steve Ballmer: Right, sure. Look, Bill. I'm just not sure the world is ready for-
Bill Gates: I SAY WHEN THE WORLD IS READY!
etc.
I've been playing FPS games on PCs since The Catacomb Abyss came out. And I recently got an Xbox (the original) and have tried it for a while. And let me say that the Xbox does NOT excel at FPS games. It does OK, but it does NOT excel. Having two analog joysticks does work nicely in that it lets you run and shoot in different directions, which worked very nicely in MechAssault (which is a 3rd person shooter, but it's close), but it wasn't perfect.
Basically, the ideal contoller for a FPS is a mouse and keyboard. I'm aware of nothing better at this time, though the keyboard could be replaced with a better keypad of some sort. The mouse lets you zoom right in on a guy's face quickly and fill it full of lead (or plasma, rockets, etc.) To make controllers like the Xbox's work well with a FPS, generally they either add auto-aiming (you get close to a guy, and the target jumps right to him, like in MechAssault) or they slow the game down so quick aiming isn't so important. And head shots? Auto-aiming kind of defeats the purpose ...
I haven't played the Xbox 360 so I can't really comment on it, but considering how similar the controller is, I doubt it's much better. On the plus side, the controllers are straight USB (the Xbox 1 also used USB, but with a custom connector) so maybe some games will actually support using a mouse and keyboard. I'm pretty sure the Dreamcast had some games that would support that ...
Of course, on the other hand it's hard to play a mouse/keyboard game while siting on your couch. ...
From TFA:
Microsoft shouldn't be shy about boosting the price for the Xbox 360 NEO, either: $450-600 is a reasonable introductory price for a streamlined, enhanced Xbox 360
I don't fucking think so. If Microsoft wants to charge $600 for their console, Sony and Nintendo are going to knock them right out of the market. And don't buy the hype that the PS3 is going to cost in that range, either. Sony will bring it in for a price more in line with gamers' expectations to keep their stranglehold on the console market. A $600 price tag won't save the 360, it'll kill it.
This poo is cold.
"Basically, the ideal contoller for a FPS is a mouse and keyboard. I'm aware of nothing better at this time, though the keyboard could be replaced with a better keypad of some sort. The mouse lets you zoom right in on a guy's face quickly and fill it full of lead (or plasma, rockets, etc.) To make controllers like the Xbox's work well with a FPS, generally they either add auto-aiming (you get close to a guy, and the target jumps right to him, like in MechAssault) or they slow the game down so quick aiming isn't so important. And head shots? Auto-aiming kind of defeats the purpose ..."
I'd much rather use a gamepad. The problem with the mouse/keyboard is that one hand always has to be on the mouse, while the other is jumping all over the keyboard. RSI anyone? Farcry is an example of this, were you have to give the 4,5,6, and 2 keys a workout to drive a fast vehicle on a narrow winding road, while firing weapons. Then there's the jumping from binoculars, to crouching, to cryvision, etc. You can mitegate some of these problems through key reassignment, but it's still a pain having to be an octopus with the keyboard.
I dunno, I rate Tekken Tag higher than any 3 xbox 360 games ('cept maybe some of the arcade games, haven't played them).
Does the controller work with Windows 2000?
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Sure it ruined industry profits and caused financial havok, but I really disagree with everyone's complaints over the hardware. If anyone out there seriously thinks that you can shrink the system, add a 4GD FLASH (annoyingly expensive), slimline HD-DVD drive, and on top of all that integrate a 250 Watt powersupply, you really need to look at some small form factor PCs and compare specs, size, and weight. Short of water cooling or an insanely, yet undiscovered cooling system, I don't think its possible. Plus, not many people would spend $600 on that. "For starters, the current design sucks. More importantly, gadget freaks have proven they'll buy the same gadget again and again if it's made smaller, sleeker, and more powerful (see the iPod Nano, the slimline PS2, the Nintendo DS Lite, and countless other examples)" Furthermore I'd like to point out that the examples that were used like the slimline PS2 and "countless" other examples all have low thermal requirements. The PS2, unless they bumped up the power in their latest revision, has a ~300 MHz CPU and a 150 Mhz graphics processor. Its all about heat people. Don't expect the PS3 to get away without a large system or a huge power adapter. At the very least expect something in the range of 250-350 Watts for that sucker, not to mention the physical aspect of the cooling system. Still some good points with games though...
I think the biggest problem is that Microsoft really jumped the gun. When every other generation starter was released, the previous systems were already starting to seem quite dated to gamers, and needed an overhaul. The Genesis, the PS1, and Dreamcast: all systems that, when released, had gamers saying not only "wow, that's really cool", but "it's about time!" I just remember the first time someone brought in a new Dreamcast, there was little hype for it's release, but all of us looked stunned when we saw it, and knew that the next generation had REALLY arrived.
With the third generation, the SNES/Genesis era, things like expanded color palettes, sampling synth based sound, and graphical scaling and warping made the systems truely "next generation". These weren't features that the SNES/Genesis could "do better", but things that the previous systems simply couldn't do at all. With the PS1/N64, we saw another huge jump with the edition of 3D graphics. Sure, the SNES had some rudimentary 3D games at the end of it's life (most of which cheated by including 3D graphics chips in their cartridges), but nothing to the extent that the next gen could do.
The 5th gen was a little more illusive, as the PS2/Gamecube/XBox era doesn't exactly add anything completely new that wasn't in the previous generation. But in this case, the pitfalls of the previous gen systems were becoming painfully obvious, and I think the general gaming community agreed that it was time to fix these things. This was the generation of attempting to achieve "realism", something the previous generation could bearily even strive for: the closest thing was probably FF8, but games of that graphical calliber were few and far between, and even in that case, we're still dealing with 2D backgrounds. Thus, it was becoming clear that the things that game manufacturers wanted to be able to do were not possible with the previous generation, so the PS2/GameCube/XBox were a welcomed update.
But the gaming community couldn't be happier right now. PS2 and Gamecube sales are just as strong now as they were 2 years ago, XBox sales were great before the 360s release. I don't see the gaming community in any sort of agreement that we are really in need of an update. The graphical capabilities of the XBox and Gamecube have just bearily begun to be challanged, and while the PS2 is obviously a little dated, most gamers are perfectly happy with the titles available for it. When you have gamers looking in awe at screen shots of Zelda: TTP and FF12, you know its not quite yet the time to release a new system.
I think it's pretty obvious that Microsoft jumped the gun on this one. I think Sony is banking on the gen switch to be ripe by the time they push the PS3 out the door, but they may have also jumped the gun, too. The only one who totally avoids these pitfalls is Nintendo, because the Revolution is not designed to be a replacement for the GameCube in the traditional sense. I think we'll see GameCube titles being released far into the life of the Revolution. It is not "next gen" in the sense of, "the old system was not powerful enough to do the things we want to do", the fact that it's only about twice as powerful as the cube probably puts it closer to the XBox than the 360 or PS3. It's purpose is to introduce another type of gaming, entirely, that you can play along side your traditional GameCube style games.
The bottom line is, these new systems are not promising things that we are not already getting, to a certain degree, with the previous generation, they don't really take gaming to the "next level" like the Genesis, PS1, or PS2 did. The feeling I'll get from playing a game on the PS3 is probably going to be similar to the feeling I've gotten playing a game on the PS2. Where-as the PS2 added enough realism to really delve into new territory in terms of atmospheric elements that really changed the gameplay experience, and you could see that this was coming from before its launch.
This is the first generation in which I truly believe is being lead by Sony and Microsoft, not by the gaming community itself, it's just being forced upon us.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
So, yeah, my life would have been perfectly complete with a PC, a decent USB control, a usb headset, and Ventrillo. Oh, assuming I cound find games with a similar level of fun gameplay and people online to play them with.
I'm not questioning your Xbox 360 purchase. I think it's kind of stupid to attempt to rationally justify entertainment purchases. You buy toys because for whatever reason you derive pleasure from them.
That being said, not only can you find games with a similar level of fun on the PC, but in many cases, the exact same games. You can also use the Xbox 360 controller on your PC.
...which is why I've never understood the attraction of the wasd keys. "We have all kinds of functionality controlled by the keyboard. So, let's make people shove their left hand all the way over to one side!"
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
" As far as I'm concerned, the 360 wasn't launched before it was ready, but before the manufacturing process was ready - not really a point for failure. Software always comes later.... Sony launched the PSP here over a year behind its Japanese launch, and we still seem to have a certain lack of decent games for it - month in month out I go to the shops and it's the same damn games!
Have you not looked at the 360 lineup? EA n+1 ware, Gun, and PGR3. It's the same stuff you could get on the Xbox, but it a different coloured wrapper.
This has to be the most confusing paragraph. If the PSP has had forever to get games, why does it suck so much?
Maybe you'll tell us why the 360 won't be a PSP.
" but I did pick one up in early January and so far I'm pleased with what it does. Ok, so there's no 'killer' game, but I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore gamer, but the few games I do have I find entertaining and great fun with friends."
Your sentence structure is a little hard to read here, but it sounds like you said that despite there being no real reason to own a 360 game-wise, you still bought one despite not being a hardcore gamer (who would buy it if it had nothing for it). Like most people, you find the games fun (if you're not hardcore, you'll have a smaller pool of experience, and probably won't know bad games as quickly -- the first ones always seem better).
This means Microsoft won; you had other options available, but you went with their product, even though you haven't given a clear reason to.
"I'm not realy 100% sure what people mean by a 'next generation game', I bought the console specifically for its online capabilities and its ability to be a media extender.
And for your money, you could've also got a Mac Mini, USB controller adapter (allowing you to use Xbox or PS2 controllers on your Mac Mini), and used its built-in NIC to play Mame (and NES, SNES, N64, PSX) games online, or played DVD movies on your TV via its DVI connector.
In that respect, the Mac Mini (which costs the same as a 360 + games) seems a better deal.
"In those respects it's very, very good, and Nintendo and Sony have a long way to go to catch up with the likes of Xbox Live."
This point is rather moot. Given the incredibly small # of Xbox Live subscribers, it's no surprise that Nintendo beat the Microsoft records with the number of people online playing Mario Kart DS last month.
So, there again, no real reason to choose the 360.
"I'd be interested as to what people exactly thought the 360, PS3 and Revolution were going to do for gaming really. Every time a console is released a wave of hype about its features appears. We never really found out what an Emotion Engine enabled the PS2 to do differently,"
The EE was both a GPU and a T&L engine. If you were an insane assembler master, you could make something like MGS3: Snake Eater. If you weren't so hot, you got the plasticy crap-ware that most titles seemed to be. Another person argued that this is a good idea because it means that people will learn and gain "full power" over the console later.
People, programming is not an MMO grind. You do not "get better" over time regardless of starting skill level. Most of the developers on these games don't know how to wring out the last bits of performance. That's why the Itanium did so poorly -- you have to have a good development environment if you want good software.
"... I'm a bit too old school to like the Revolution controller"
Even though you're not a hardcore gamer. At least they're doing something different.
"All I bought my 360 for was to play HD games against other people in my lounge and the rest of the world, and in those respects it's been a success for me, and evidently for all the other people I'm playing against..."
and Microsoft.
Why buy the 360?
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
Nintendo's planning to do just what you like. Release a bunch of really fun games you can just sit down and play. The only difference is the 360 cost $400 and the Revo will cost less than $300, and it will probably come with 2 controllers and a game you'll actually want to play.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Dev for the 360 scales well with the identical dev of current PC games. Can the Xbox 360 even run F.E.A.R. with all the bells and whistles turned on?
Sticking my arms straight forward (perpendicular to my body), my left hand is right over wasd, while my right is over my mouse.
I'm not sure what you mean by having it shoved way over - is your left arm coming out of your chest?
Who really cares how big their console and power supply are and how much they weigh? As long as it's not 250lbs and the size of a 7U Compaq server, what's the incentive to redesign it? Redesign it and all you'll do it piss off the early adopters that need th elatest and greatest.
I've had mine in my entertainment system since I got it in November, and have never thought about how big it is, nor the brick power adapter that's nicely hidden behind it. It fits in nicely next to my cable box, Tivo, and receiver.
But no, I'm not saying that I'll never buy an Xbox 360, or that it's MS's doom. Just that if the games aren't there, why rush the console out? I'm a firm believer that the reason the original Xbox performed so well was because it launched with Halo, which sustained it for its first year plus. The GameCube had some solid launch titles, but they were all short with little replay. I'm historically a fan of Nintendo, but I still didn't rush out to buy a DS -- I waited over a year, and now have about 10 games for it that I bought almost all right away, because I knew that I would have a solid run of entertainment for the forseeable future with the system.
And due to my disagreement with many of Sony's business practices, I haven't owned and probably won't own a PS2, despite many games I would really like to play. But that's my own choice.
But you do have a point -- if it weren't for a good chunk of early adopters, the prices and games may never get to a point where they're attractive to the later adopters like myself. They pay the higher prices and live through the gaming droughts so I don't have to.
WHere are all the 360's? Ive been kicked out of Game Stop for countinually askin when they will arrive
Arms forward, prependicular to your body? Braaaains...
Incidentally, it should be very very simple to move your keyboard an inch to the left. Then your hand would land on rdfg, which incidentally is centered around the little knob on the f key (on my keyboard anyway) so easy to find without looking, and your hand gains an extra 8 easy to reach controls. The pinky is no longer useless!
> ...don't these guys realize how dangerously huge and clunky the Xbox 360 already is?
... smoothing out all known hardware flaws and overheating problems; and finally, slashing the weight of the whole system by at least 25 percent.
Yeah, I mean, it's so much bigger than the original XBox... no, wait, what? Look, it's not a small console, but then, neither is the PS3!
> Top priorities for a redesigned Xbox 360 (we'll call it "Xbox 360 NEO...): adding an HD-DVD drive, or at least a slot-loading DVD drive;
So what the hell is that thing on the front of my Xbox 360, a cup holder? I will agree that releasing a new model with built in HD-DVD is probably a good idea, though, so they're not losing the entire HD playback market to the PS3.
> integrating that ridiculous "power brick" AC adaptor into the main chassis;
So, their plan is to integrate a unit with high heat output into the main chassis, remove some of the weight (which pretty much means cutting down on the heatsinks), reducing the surface area for it to lose heat through, and at the same time resolving all the heating problems? This will be done through the use of magic pixies, right???
> $450-600 is a reasonable introductory price for a streamlined, enhanced Xbox 360
Ah, right. So being more expensive, and less powerful than your immediate competition is a good idea? Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone has seriously suggested the PS3 will launch at above $399, and while how much is certainly up for debate, I also can't see it being less powerful...
> adding an embedded hard drive (ideally a 4 GB flash RAM microdrive)
Why would I want such a thing? External HD = good - I want to be able to pull the drive from my console, and connect it to another. It's not like it's some unwieldy mess that's cluttering up my living room, it's a small module stuck to the side for goodness sake.
> More importantly, gadget freaks have proven they'll buy the same gadget again and again if it's made smaller, sleeker, and more powerful (see the iPod Nano, the slimline PS2, the Nintendo DS Lite, and countless other examples).
Do they have any actual numbers to support the idea that significant numbers of people are replacing perfectly functional devices with smaller ones? In particular, in the case of the iPod Nano and the slimline PS2, they came out after long enough that people's original version of the device could be wearing out (for example, my PS2 will occaisionally refuse to play discs). Nintendo DS Lite - it isn't even out yet, you can't claim anything about its sales!
> Embrace lower game costs and digital game distribution over Xbox Live
So, with my XBox 360 NEO, with it's 4gb HD, where exactly am I going to put those games?
The 360 has the advantage in this way, because the dev environment is very similar to writing games for the most popular platform on the planet, the Windows PC. It's also using the same tools as Xbox 1, which were very easy additions to Visual Studio. I had a Hello World and a simple Pong-like game on my Xbox 1 within minutes of installing the dev environment, so I'd assume the 360 is about as easy.
Develop a game for PC that can take advantage of a dual core Athlon 64 with a recent ATI video card, and it'll port over to the 360 relatively easily. Aside from learning some new tweaks to the architecture for ATI+PowerPC vs. nVidia+x86, the only notable difference between 360 development and the original Xbox is the multithreading aspect. Granted that's not a small piece to bite off, especially in games, but it seems that it's the long-overdue future of gaming right now so developers should be learning to work with it anyways.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
You mean it has been FUD week all over, with biased and misinformed 'studies' from Merrill Lynch and - oh well, why use a plural, there has been but one so-called study? If you had followed all that talk you might be aware that even IF ML's production cost tag came out correct (and it's a big IF), that would not necessarily mean the price would amount to the same number. MS also sells its consoles at a loss, so let's leave it to better skilled analysts to find out the real numbers some time, see who will be making a bigger minus on every sale.
Yes it does, but if it also happens when you ship a product to just a few thousand people and under reproductible conditions to anyone who tries, then that is definitely _not_ a feature (to put it into rather mild words). If one in 100,000 PS2 units shipped turns out to be defective, that's one thing, but if one in 1000 Xbox2 units (let's not follow the naming propaganda, it's not like there have been 359 generations of Xboxen before...) is faulty and has to be returned because of repeated overheating and crashing, then you might look like a fool by stating that well, all consoles have had their share of technical problems. If there was no quality assurance eager enough to eradicate issues like that before they were delivered to everyone's living rooms, then that can only mean one thing: invasion! - no, errh, I mean, that was a rushed launch.
In short: advantage Sony & Nintendo. Let's see who can serve an ace.
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
They work as a standard USB HID. Either a tiny amount of soldering or a cheap adaptor will serve you.
I have a great new game console. Want to buy one? If three people want them, but can only build two a month, is my new console the best selling one in the market?
Backorders do not indicate a significant market force.
Can we just wait until both the PS3 and the Revolution release and let a year or two pass before we decide who has and hasn't failed? These articles are meaningless crap meant only to generate web traffic. It isn't news; it's just pointless hypothesizing about what went wrong. I'm just venting some after reading article after pointless article but this isn't even /.'s fault. Is anyone else really tired of looking at empty analysis?
Dear Gaming Sites,
YOU HAVE NOTHING MEANINGFUL TO WRITE ABOUT!!! JUST TAKE THE DAY OFF!!!
On the other hand, I don't know how the gaming industry will ever recover from the great lava flood of 2011. MS, Sony, and Nintendo didn't even see it coming. How will the market ever recover?!?
Yes, all the way over to the left... where their left hand already is. My god!
The only trouble I can imagine is with left handed players. The WASD+mouse setup works just fine for right handed players, but almost every game allows the keys/buttons to be fully customized for lefties or other purposes. I guess someone could play with the mouse in their left hand, and use the existing arrow keys with their right hand.
Yeah, but your left hand's controling the whole keyboard. So why not put it in the middle of the keyboard? I use tdgh instead of wasd. Means I can access a whole lot more keys with no hand movement at all, and the rest of them with less movement, compared with wasd.
Repton.
They say that only an experienced wizard can do the tengu shuffle.
"Yes, all the way over to the left... where their left hand already is. My god!"
I'm betting that all the people who prefer KB+M can type 30+ WPM.* Touch typists need not apply. Now all I need to work on is my weapon accuracy. Consistent head shots are hard.
*Side thought: I wonder how well those chorded keyboards work in a FPS?
You need a driver from Microsoft's hardware site to make the controller work, and it appears that they don't have a windows 2000 driver for it. I don't see why the XP driver wouldn't work but it's a installer so it might deny installation if it detects Windows 2000.
Just for the record, you also don't need the actual xbox headset for the headset portion to work, just about any 2.5mm headset (most cell phone sets) will activate the functionality since it's built into the controller and not the headset dongle. The 360 one just adds more controls like a volume and mute function, and meshes well with the controller.
The whole setup cost me about $45. (25 for a used 360 controller and 20 for the optional headset) I also haven't tried any third party wired 360 controllers, but I don't see why they wouldn't work with this driver. Also the wireless controllers will not work here. Just the wired ones.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Games.net guy fails for using the phrase "In short". He fails twice for using it to sum up ONE sentence. This is one of the most over-used as well as poorly-used cliches in game "journalism" and people should be fired for using it.
The Farewell Tour II
Um, yeah, when you stick your arms out, they're perpendicular to your body.
Or do you live in Bizarro world?
FC Closer
I own the Xbox 360, I personaly feel that the major flaw's that is has are software related. Although a bigger HDD and a HD-DVD player would have made the system much better. I question everyone who feels the need to say one will be better then the other.. I personaly will own both the Xbox 360 and the PS3.. I did the same with the PS2 and Xbox.. One system will always have certain games the other will not. Besides do you really want one side to win??? Sure lets say M$/Sony wins and the other decides to give up. What does that mean for us? No competition is never good for the consumer.
I think you're kind of missing the point, on a whole bunch of levels.
First, yes, you can buy a PC that plays some of these games. It will, however, set you back much more than an Xbox 360 (even the cheapest PCs run the $600 range). You'll have to play with a keyboard and mouse in front of a computer screen, not in your living room. You won't be able to track your accomplishments, or play with your son halfway across the country while talking on voice chat like I do. At least not easily (yes, you can probably set up an instant messaging program and screw around with a headset to get it to work on PC -- it could be done I suppose). That $600 box won't really be good for any games besides that shareware -- you certainly won't be able to run anything like Morrowind on it and have it play decently. If you want to play the game on another computer, you'll first have to check the specs to make sure it matches, then install again (with Xbox 360 you just log into the other box and it downloads the game). From a gameplay standpoint, playing on PC would be a crappy version of what can be done easily, more cheaper, and arguably more fun on Xbox 360.
But let's look beyond that. Up until now, shareware was the domain of a few key players (iD, for example), but it never really took off. Most companies produce demos of PC games, but the idea that you can download a game, play to a certain point and unlock the full game afterwards only had a few real successes. The vast majority of people still buy games in little cardboard boxes.
Microsoft has an opportunity here, they're taking advantage of it and it's frankly shaking the industry. Sales of Xbox Live arcade titles are in the hundreds of thousands, easily matching regular game sales. Why is it such a success? Because with one button press you have a game downloaded, installed, and ready to go. You KNOW it works because it was built for the platform, and most games are only about $5. They have begun work on bringing full DVD-sized games to the Arcade. They're taking the long predicted download-distribution model for selling games and making it a reality.
And it isn't just Microsoft. Sony and Nintendo are also bringing the download-distribution model to the masses. This is the way the future is going to be said.
There's a lot to be said about a system that easily lets consumers buy games, without thinking about platform specs, "Will it work?" etc. iTunes and iPod uses a similar model, and look how far they got (1 billion songs sold). *Can* it be done the old PC way? Yes. But if there's a better way, why not go for it?
how the fuck did you find a used 360 controller? maybe someone bought the controllers but got sick of waiting for a console to buy...
"Well, it's poor planning to bank on future games -- why not wait until those games are actually released, so you can actually play them?"
The 360 intrigues me for a couple reasons, one being future games of course (Armored Core 4 is speculated to be out on both the ps3 and the 360, so I might have to pick up a 360 if Live is better than whatever Sony comes up with). But also, since I skipped on the first Xbox, there are a few games out for that system that I've missed out on and can pick up cheap, and can't play on a PC. Sure I can probably get an Xbox cheap, but why not take that purchase as given and "pretend" that the 360 is 100$ cheaper?
Yes, but when you stick you stick your arms out front, you also look like a zombie, hence the brains reference.
Although I must say I might quite like Bizarro world. It sounds interesting.
Which, Microsoft of course denied saying everything was fine. Well, unless there's a BC update in the next day, that would make them filthy liars.
Don't forget about the oft-missed London: 1961 expansion pack.
Side note: Anything on a console that's there "for future use" will never get used. Didn't the original NES have an expansion port on the bottom that never got used?
It's always entertaining as hell to watch someone else punch themselves in the nuts. If this is where MS goes, that's pretty much what they'd be doing.
This article is just some ignorant wishlist...
...I'm sure no one had given that one any thought yet...
#1 Redesign the Xbox 360 hardware by early 2007
The weakling found a 12lb home console to be a problem. A heavy HOME console is really the last thing anyone should care about. How often do you find yourself moving it? This is not a portable system. Set it down.
The only ones who should care are microsoft as they have to pay for shipping them, and apparently they don't care either.
HD-DVD drive inclusion? eh... I could take it or leave it...
Raising the price to cover all of these sleek new things? HELL NO.
#2 Release the ultimate game--a crown jewel for the Xbox 360
But of course! We've all been so STUPID! The ULTIMATE game!
So stupid...
#3 Lock down Grand Theft Auto 4 as an Xbox 360 exclusive
This series is clearly on its way out anyway. What good does it do Microsoft to own (at any cost) a loaf of stale bread?
The *movement* that GTA started is what matters now. (the pebble has sunk but the wave is growning)
Besides, does this sound right? "Microsoft. We bring you the other guy's leftovers."
#4 Turn the Xbox 360 into the MMO console
So...make the public's perception of the console even more negative. The nerd box? Xbox live makes it completely doable but why on earth would you want to make MMOs what you are known for? These games go on for years which makes little business sense...even with subscription fees. Least innovative genre evar.
I'm sure MS could sell you four quick paced action games in the time required to watch the opening cinema of your average MMO.
#5 Embrace lower game costs and digital game distribution over Xbox Live
While that's a nice idea and all I would have to argue that this had better be one hell of an encryption algorithm. So you store the games locally and a server provides the key to 'unlock' it? What's to stop a LOCAL proxy from doing just that? MS is still hurting from their last romp with piracy.
This made me chuckle..
If it's good enough, Microsoft could sub-license this system to other publishers, and eventually Nintendo, Sony, and any other major entertainment companies who enter the video game fracas.
All the eggs in one basket! Sounds good!
Exactly. This is why I put a sticker on my N64 over the logo to really say NES3. I mean, come on! Nintendo didn't release 62 other consoles between the SNES and N64! I also renamed my SNES the NES2 btw, can't stand that marketing hype.
64 indeed!
It's just a name, they can name it whatever they want. Numbers don't have to mean generations. Personally I would have preferred Xbox 2, but honestly the name means little in reality.
All I can ask is, is TFA a joke? it's awesome, I laughed hysterically at every one of them.s tem)
#1 is a parody of the PS2
#2 is just plain mental. Only one console has ever NOT wanted a killer app, and that console was the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_(game_sy
#3 is a parody of the PS2
#4 is just dumb
#5 I couldn't read anymore, due to the hysterics.
disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
I think I owe you my first born. I've been looking for a good PC controller and haven't found one. I play a lot of ROMs and I like the feel of a console controler in my hand and haven't been able to find one. Didn't know you could use the 360 controller on the PC.
The article claims that that MS can seriously hurt Sony if they get GTA exclusively. I don't think so.
Sure, GTA was last generation's killer app. It basically made the PS2. However, that won't happen twice. Getting GTA exclusively is like Nintendo's buying Resident Evil 4 for the Cube. It changed absolutely nothing, because Resident Evil was the previous generation's killer app, just like GTA is now. And that was despite Resident Evil 4 being an utterly awesome and fresh game, while Rockstar has done nothing but release incremental upgrades to an increasingly stale franchise.
Nobody knows which game will decide this generation. Maybe no single game will. Maybe it will be a combination of great games. Who knows. Which console(s) get to have GTA won't make a huge difference.
Yes it does, but if it also happens when you ship a product to just a few thousand people and under reproductible conditions to anyone who tries, then that is definitely _not_ a feature (to put it into rather mild words). If one in 100,000 PS2 units shipped turns out to be defective, that's one thing, but if one in 1000 Xbox2 units (let's not follow the naming propaganda, it's not like there have been 359 generations of Xboxen before...) is faulty and has to be returned because of repeated overheating and crashing, then you might look like a fool by stating that well, all consoles have had their share of technical problems. If there was no quality assurance eager enough to eradicate issues like that before they were delivered to everyone's living rooms, then that can only mean one thing: invasion! - no, errh, I mean, that was a rushed launch.
This is one of the most confused, retarded and badly written paragraphs I have ever seen on the Internet.
Is there any way I can persuade you to commit suicide with just words? Please confirm asap.
I think you're kind of missing the point, on a whole bunch of levels.
Hi doofus, I think you are missing the point.
I specifically mentioned that I wasn't questioning his Xbox 360 purchase, doofus. I was just pointing out that the controllers work on the PC (which he obviously already has, right doofus?), and that you can just as easily play Alien Storm and Robotron on it.
(even the cheapest PCs run the $600 range)
Yeeeeah. Okay. Second clue that your post isn't going to be what we call "reality based."
You'll have to play with a keyboard and mouse in front of a computer screen, not in your living room.
Considering my original post was almost 100% about how you can use the Xbox 360 controllers on your PC, I don't have a lot confidence in your ability to read.
You won't be able to track your accomplishments, or play with your son halfway across the country while talking on voice chat like I do
Have you played a modern computer game? Like, I don't know, any of them? Shockingly, voice chat and ranked servers exist on PC games, too! Can you even believe it????
From a gameplay standpoint, playing on PC would be a crappy version of what can be done easily, more cheaper, and arguably more fun on Xbox 360.
Again, I never disputed that. At all. Ever. You picked a random misinterpration of my post (even though there was a disclaimer) and based an entire rant on it. A rant full of inaccuracies.
The rest of your long ranty post had little to nothing to do with anything that I said, but what the hell, doofus.
But let's look beyond that. Up until now, shareware was the domain of a few key players (iD, for example), but it never really took off.
You're out of your freaking doofus gourd if you think that shareware never took off. How old are you? Shareware faded away in a large part because companies can now offer direct downloads of demos (many of which are unlockable, and scarily close to shareware!) to consumers instead of having to rely on a network of BBS's and floppy disk traders.
They're taking the long predicted download-distribution model for selling games and making it a reality.
I guess you have never used Steam. Based on your post I'm going to guess that this may be the first time you've actually used a computer.
To summarize: You think the Xbox is cool. You can use your Xbox controllers on the PC. For some reason you think this means I hate the Xbox and all that it stands for.
In otherwords, you're a doofus.
Doofus.
Hexic HD, IMO the best Live Arcade game, is only available for Xbox 360. So while you can play many of the Live Arcade games on your PC, there are some you cannot.
Hexic HD is a hex-tile-based puzzle game from the creator of Tetris, and it's addictive as all hell. I've worn out a 360 controller's rechargable battery in one-sitting playing it.
Live Arcade also has some games that you could play on your PC at one time, but are no longer available. For instance, Crystal Quest.
Comment of the year
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
Well, they did abandon some of their original specifications, so this could make it up to the people that are waiting for a better console. But they would really piss off a lot of people with the latest xbox who always want the latest systems...I doubt they would have any way of upgrading the old units. Retailers could get in on it and offer better deals for buying your used console to upgrade to one of the newer xbox systems, but the value of the old opnes is either going to go way down, or the new ones are going to be priced astronomically. That is, if the rumors are true...
Well I just happened to be lucky and snaged a core system this saturday (last system at EB everyone else in town was sold out). And I am very happy with the purchase. I didn't buy any games with it just a live sub (and mic) and a vga adapter. I set it next to my computer, pluged it into my dual input lcd monitor that is hooked to my main pc, rented Kameo from blockbuster and I have been having a hi-res gaming blast ever since.
In Kameo I have thrown ice spears at dragons, rode a war horse around a battlefield filled with elves and trolls (think warcraft orcs), rolled around as a giant spiked pinball crushing trolls, swam around chasing submarines as a torpedo shooting squid and roasted more than a few trolls alive as a fire breathing dragon. In short I am having a blast!
Hate and preach anti M$ all you want. The 360 is a great machine.
I have a mid level pc with a 6800 gt in it, I play pc games all the time. So why did the 360 have an impact?
Cost effectiviness/bang for the buck. I know its outside Microsofts intended model but Gamefly is a large reason why I bought a 360. 21.95$ a month for any game I want to play is exactly the cable like gaming distribution model I want to participate in. I have payed blizzard 14.95 a month (and SOE/Verant before that). So 21.95$ is hardley a stretch for what I get.
The 300$ I paid for the console is a full 1/3 of what I paid for my PC! And thats with me newegging all the parts and putting it togeather myself. Hell my graphics card cost me 300. And this thing would eat my PC for breakfast spec wise (if only it had a mouse and a keyboard... grumble).
Say what you want. I am hi-res gaming for cheaper than you do on a PC.
Back to the topic. If I were a betting man I would say that while next gen stuff is looming, gamers still need thier fix. The 360 isn't causing the slow down. My bet is that the rental market (you have one example right here), and the MMORPG market (consume so much time gamers can't play and pay for anything else) is what is causing this issue. Six pack Joe gamer doesn't even know when the revolution or ps3 are comming out, it's hardly effecting his spending habits.
Ves
Yeah, but when you're sitting at a desk, your arms may not be precisely and fully perpendicular, but your forearm is certainly in a position that is approximately perpendicular to your torso.
FC Closer
"Hi doofus, I think you are missing the point."
Um, yeah... I stopped reading right here. Step away from the angry teenager/college dude, kids. He hasn't quite grown up yet.
Yes, mouse and keyboard owns dual analogue sticks anytime. But the revolution controller will do better (except it might strain your wrist a little after hours of game play i suppose.)
Um, yeah... I stopped reading right here.
It doesn't surprise me, since you obviously didn't read my original post before typing out your long boring screed.
Step away from the angry teenager/college dude, kids. He hasn't quite grown up yet.
Damn. You showed me.
Doofus.