Microsoft Origami Unfolds

College Student writes "Microsoft has officially unveiled 'Origami', a paperback-book sized portable hybrid (laptop & PDA). From article: 'The new machines will connect wirelessly to the Internet and carry full-sized hard drives, but they are not intended to replace current PCs....The new PCs are expected to sell for between $599 to $999, but Microsoft said it is possible to sell one for $500 if the manufacturer selects components carefully.'" More details at the official Microsoft site, and via Channel 9 a look at the system with the UMPC general manager.

Comments

A few questions:

[TripMaster Monkey]

Why no physical thumb board? Surely the screen could have slid up (a la Sidekick) to reveal a physical QWERTY keyboard...it's good that there's an option for the onscreen thumboard deal in the lower corners, but it's intrusive and unnecessarily difficult (I have to learn a new key layout now?). The alternative,of course, is the stylus...and although I recognize the versatility of a stylus, I was still more than happy to retire mine when I switched from Palm to Sidekick.

Is this thing supposed to be a phone as well? The teaser site touts Origami as the "go-everywhere, do-everything mobile device", but in the screen shots I couldn't find any phone software, and I can't imagine holding this thing up to my ear (until Sidekicks became popular, everyone looked at me funny when I answered a call, and the Sidekick is about a quarter of the Origami's size).

Does it run Linux?
No...seriously. Does it? Or will it in the future? The device looks great, but I'd be happier running Linux on it than Windows. Unfortunately, I don't think Bill will buy back your Windows CE license if you do decide to switch. ^_^

Re:A few questions:

[pimpimpim]

look at the pictures on this dutch news site:

http://www.nu.nl/news.jsp?n=689884&c=134

Apparently, it has a rotatable back, revealing a small size keyboard. This would make it interesting for me. And I'm also interested in the hardware issues, might be a nice thing to run linux on, I'd buy it instead of a laptop. What also would be nice is a USB port to connect a real keyboard to it.

Re:A few questions:

[1000101]

"Unfortunately, I don't think Bill will buy back your Windows CE license if you do decide to switch.

I doubt he would too since this thing runs Windows XP

Re:A few questions:

[shmlco]

One of the prototypes does have a thumb keyboard if needed, with the screen rotating on the base to reveal it (sort of a "plus" shape).

Personally, they indicated that it will slot in between cell-phones and notebooks, and be easier to pop into a purse or backpack. The real question is: Does that slot exist?

In additon to the obvious music and movie applicatons, I also wonder how many companies will port their games to it. Could this also be MS's entry into the "Game Boy" market?

Re:A few questions:

[Total_Wimp]

-No keyboard at a time with mobile computing is moving to keyboards: check

-It's basically a big PDA at a time when the PDA market is on it's death bead: check

-It's not a phone at a time when the smartphone market is growing rapidly: check

Either Microsoft knows something nobody else does, they're just playing a niche for incrimental revenue, or, well, I don't know. I don't get it.

TW

Re:A few questions:

[Total_Wimp]

The only differences between a Windows Mobile PDA and a PDA-sized computer that runs Windows XP are software and hardware support. Since most Windows software and PC hardware assume you're not using a PDA formfactor, even this is less usefull than you would immediately assume.

For example, I've heard this thing might run Halo. Great. How do you control it? Once you add a controller, how portable is it? Yes, you can probably think up some stuff that would be usefull, but along the way I'll bet you reject a whole lot of hardware and software that just don't seem to fit. By contrast, almost everything written for the Windows Mobile platform works great on a mobile device.

TW

Re:A few questions:

[Jearil]

speaking of pictures..

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/umpc/howtobuy.m spx

anyone notice how horrid Microsoft seems to be with photoshop? The screen isn't even on the device! Or maybe that's a new feature... able to move the screen around off of the device.

Someone's gonna get in trouble over that ;p

Re:A few questions:

[Ucklak]

Microsoft use Photoshop? No, that Acrylic!!
http://www.microsoft.com/products/expression/en/gr aphic_designer/default.aspx

Re:A few questions:

[tchuladdiass]

You know, the same counter arguments seem to apply to Linux-based devices. Most people who want one think of the idea that you can easily port desktop Linux software to them, but when you do the usability goes way down (even on my Sharp Zaurus, which gives a 640x480 display and keyboard, it is still uncomfortable using software that is designed for a desktop environment on it).
Of course, for me the advantage of Linux-based devices is that I don't have to shell out $$$ for software, as I can port / adapt / write my own where necessary.

Re:A few questions:

[CreatureComfort]

As an owner of a Windows Mobile PDA (Dell Axim x50v) I can say authoratatively that Windows Mobile software sucks in so many ways it's hard to count. The OS is buggy, slow, an so severly crippled in areas that desktop users take for granted that it is physically painful to use. The software selection for add-on programs is so diminuative that when I switched from PalmOS, I honestly thought that I had to be missing some secret community of developers. I couldn't believe that 1) there were no Windows versions of so many of the Palm apps that I had found essential, and 2) there was no active community of programmers and hobbiests trading code and writing scripts to do all the little things that hadn't been included in the OS.

The Windows Mobile world is dominated by a very few developers who write commercial software for profit. The wonderful selection of little free/share-ware apps that exist in the desktop and Palm world is totally non-existent in the WinMobile world. In addition, MS makes it exremely difficult for the hobbiest to "play around" with the devices and this keeps many who might be interested from even bothering.

Some examples:
There is one, and only one, program that can be used to completely backup your Windows Mobile device, and it is not included with the OS. This program must be bought, from a third party, and the WM 5.0 version took 4 months to be released after WM 5.0 was released.

To "Active Sync" your WM 5.0 device you MUST have Outlook or Outlook Express, not only installed on your windows desktop, but it MUST be the default email client.

There are only two usable alternatives to the internal contact/calender management programs, both commercial software, and almost no external script abilitiy to customize these apps beyond the limited choices offered by the developers.

I left Palm because the hardware offereings have fallen so far behind state-of-the-art it is pathetic. My Dell has built-in Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, SD card slot, CF Card slot, and a true VGA screen. There is no comparable Palm offering, even the rediculously overpriced LifeDrive. I find myself using my Dell much less than I used to use my Palm, with the exception of GPS navigation, which the Palm couldn't do at all. I am using my laptop much more, but carrying that bulk around is tiresome, in more ways than one.

I will definately be keeping my eyes on these new devices. If I could get a $600-$800 device in a paperback size form factor, with a full OS, good battery life and a thumb keyboard, I would jump at the chance.

Re:A few questions:

[akac]

Well the first issue is you bought a Dell Axim. Those things have great specs, but the implementation of WM5 is awful, slow, and buggy. Second, there is a huge group of developers giving free software, code, and so on. Look at 4winmobile.com, http://www.pocketpcdn.com/ CodeGuru has a section, and there are many many others. Most people share code on the newsgroups too.

Look, I know that WinMobile isn't perfect, but most of what you are writing is out of ignorance and not fact.

Re:A few questions:

[IflyRC]

Actually Microsoft contracts out most of the brochure type web development to companies around Seattle. Some companies have specific contracts for parts of the Microsoft web site. So no, it was not a Microsoft employee who screwed up.

Re:A few questions:

[SeeMyNuts!]

That's the new BSOD feature. The screen physically slides off and melts into a pile of goo on the floor. The box comes with five BSOD replacement kits, with the BSODs timed to have the kits run out right after the warranty expires.

Re:A few questions:

[EraserMouseMan]

Some people amaze me. First of all these OEM devices are running XP Tablet Edition. The devices are being made by other companies. MS is not making hardware here. Other companies have determined there is a demand and they are making the product. Microsoft is merely working with them.

Secondly an Origami device extends the functionality of the products that are hot (bluetooth cellphones with internet capability). Who the hell wants to surf the internet on a phone? Who the hell thinks it is ideal to show their friends their digital photo album on a tiny iPod screen? Who wants to lug around a big laptop bag with them everywhere they go?

This device is a perfect addition to somebody who doesn't need to do much more than surf the Internet and check email. But it is also perfect for anybody who already has a main computer but needs something that is the size of a small tablet and has full XP functionality that they can easily and comfortably take with them to a coffee shop, meetings or on an airplane.

I've been wanting a device in exactly this form factor for years. I can't wait till they hit the stores!!!

Re:A few questions:

[Anonymous Coward]

Even on the desktop there are device drivers that just plain suck. Most likely the issues you're seeing are due to sucky device drivers.

Also, if you look on MSDN the whole Windows Mobile SDK is available for download, all you have to do is some reserach to learn how to write WM applications. It's almost identical to writing desktop applications but not all of the desktop features are supported. Seriously, think about it, if Windows CE/Windows Mobile supported all of the same desktop features, wouldn't it be Windows XP? These devices have 200-300mhz processors, 32-64meg of ram, and no hard disk, there's only so much space to work with.

Origami looks cool, it would be nice to have a full desktop system readily available. But, i still can't imagine myself carrying around a paperback book all the time, it's still too big for me. My Windows Mobile Pocket PC Phone Edition is actually a little bigger than i honestly like becuase it doesn't quite fit in my pocket comfortably. I had a Windows Mobile smartphone and with it syncing over the air to my exchange box i found i couldn't live without it, and it was still small enough to fit in my pocket comfortably.

Re:A few questions:

[im_thatoneguy]

http://www.oaktreeent.com/web_photos/Telephones/US -West_Old-School_Cell_Phone_Horiz_Tan_web.jpg

"Why would anybody want that thing?"
"It's such a terrible size! It's too big to fit in your pocket, and if I really wanted to make a call, I could just go to one of a billion phone booths."
"Once again, they've created a product that looks like ass."
"Please... change my life? It's just a phone, talk about over hyped."
"The quality is so much worse than a land line."
"The battery life is terrible!"
"Maybe it if it was a lot cheaper, but at that price range, come on."
"The interface is terrible."
"Looks like it'll only really appeal to a niche market."
"Anyone who has used buttons will know that you'll be constantly breaking that keypad."
"Just another example of a company trying to jump in and create a need that doesn't exist."

  This is still front lines, cutting edge gadgetry here, which is going to create a whole new market, not just exploit an existing one. PDAs failed because they were a whole new paradigm
"I can't use my normal applications? What applications can I use?"
This is, your normal computer, that sits on your desk, now sitting in your hand. Everything you do day in and day out is possible on this thing. But not just, anything is possible, everything you already do on your pc is possible on this thing. Only now it's finally a size that can be whipped out and put away quickly. Something that even tablet PCs are fighting, they're still trouble to take out and put away. Imagine your desktop, in your hand, on the street, available at a moments notice. Sign me up... for version 2.0

Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[Wardini]

Or I'll just wait for that $100 PC. When is that coming out?

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[Anonymous Coward]

Use your imagination... a $100 laptop is a ONE HUNDRED dollar laptop. In electronics you usually DO get what you pay for.

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[Mr. Underbridge]

Or I'll just wait for that $100 PC. When is that coming out?

Unless you live in Sudan or somewhere else fun like that, for you the answer is "never."

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[PFI_Optix]

Unless you live in Sudan or somewhere else fun like that, for you the answer is "never."

This is something I just can't wrap my head around. The more they sell, the cheaper they are to make. There are thousands of rural/poor school districts in the U.S. that would LOVE to get their hands on semi-rugged, simple, cheap laptops and give one to each student. I guess because we don't live in Africa the fact that we don't have the money to provide technology to our students doesn't matter.

They could sell tens of millions of those in the U.S. and make the units even more affordable in places like Sudan (mark them up to $150 here if you want, then it only costs $50 to put on in the hands of an African student).

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[molarmass192]

BTW, I'm not ragging on you, just the whole "sell 'em to the 3rd world" movement. The problem is that the per capita income in Sudan is $460 per year, as compared to $40,100 per year in the US. $150 is an impulse level 0.3% of income over here but a whopping 10.9% of income there. To equate the economic impact, that's like selling them for a bargain $4,370.90 here. To make matters worse, Sudanese are a bit more preoccupied with buying food and shelter with that $460 than we are here. You need to visit one of these 3rd world countries to really understand that they have far more pressing issues than getting a wireless tablet. I've never been to Africa, but I've been to Honduras and Haiti and let me tell you, at $2,900 and $1,600 per capita income, the shanty towns in those countries would be Beverly Hills to most Africans. Besides, you need electricity to recharge these things, there is virtually no power grid in most of these poor countries.

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[demachina]

"The more they sell, the cheaper they are to make."

To an extent, since volume does drive down price but there is a hard wall at which prices are not going to go below on things like display, battery, CPU and RAM. I imagine the touchscreen costs quite a bit more than a simple LCD and keyboard.

What you are looking for is really Negorponte's $100 laptop. If it survives and gets rolling, which is still a big if, I'm sure they can sell it to low income American's not just Africans and Asians. They aren't targeting Americans because even poor rural American's are less in need than the extremely poor, isolated and at risk children in Africa and parts of Asia.

Negroponte designed their machine from the ground up to achieve the lowest cost possible. Microsoft and its partners did not on this. This device is designed for road warriors with a lot of money to burn. I wish them luck, well not really, but has been already belabored here, this thing is hitting an already known bad bad market niche, its too big, too little and too expensive all at the same time. I really hope they hardened the screen so it doesn't get scratched trashed by carrying it around without a cover.

Uncle Bill also wants his cut out of this and that alone pushes the price out of the range you are looking for, which is why Negroponte didn't use Windows on his $100 laptop.

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[Mr. Underbridge]

The more they sell, the cheaper the laptops are to make. They could be sold in the first world at a 100% markup and still come out VERY cheap, allowing a second laptop to be provided to the third world at the cost of shipping.

Actually, I'd heard they were going to do just that - sell them to anyone for $200, using the proceeds presumably to help fund the program.

Re:Sell if for $100 and I'm in

[Mr. Flibble]

This is something I just can't wrap my head around. The more they sell, the cheaper they are to make. There are thousands of rural/poor school districts in the U.S. that would LOVE to get their hands on semi-rugged, simple, cheap laptops and give one to each student. I guess because we don't live in Africa the fact that we don't have the money to provide technology to our students doesn't matter.

They could sell tens of millions of those in the U.S. and make the units even more affordable in places like Sudan (mark them up to $150 here if you want, then it only costs $50 to put on in the hands of an African student).


When I was in Kenya in the summer of 1990 building a medical clinic in the town of Shiru (2-3 hrs East on the Kinshaha Hwy from Kisumu) I had the opportunity to meet many of the people in the area naturally.

They were all smart, and as well educated as you might expect people in that area to be, in fact, I was quite impressed with their level of education. However, in the area where I was, power was not common. There was a grand total of 3 light fixtures in the two medical clinic buildings. Everything else was done with dirty kerosene home made lamps (made out of garbage, very impressive improvisation).

The children there generally owned one set of clothes (often their Scouting uniform - which had no badges or any other "bling" of any kind). They had no pens, no pencils, and certanly no paper. In fact, I understand that being able to give most third world children pens or pencils is often a wonderful gift.

Nobody owned shoes, although running is a popular pastime. The kids played soccer, and since they could not even afford a soccer ball (I really wish we had brought some, if you go to Kenya, bring some balls *AND* a pump for the children, they will love you for it) they made their soccer balls out of woven strands of some kind of grass or reeds. Very well done, I know I could not do it.

There was no source of clean water, in fact, we did not have filtration for ourselves and had to boil everything, even then we did get some contaminated water, and nearly every North American in the group fell sick for over a week. These people drink water that is contaminated with human waste and many parasites because they have no other options.

The nearest phone was in Kisumu. (That may have changed now...)

And this tea plantation/village was right on the Kinsasha highway.

If these children got laptops/pdas/newtons for "education" they would sell them (or more likely have them stolen) and buy their families things - like better food, medicine for diseases, clothes, improvements on their houses, or even pens pencils and paper for schoolwork.

People have been getting along without laptops in school for a very long time, they are not required for education. In fact, they are not really required for any NEED that I know of. People in third world countries have needs that need to be met before they can begin to rely on "Toys" like laptops.

They could use more pens and paper first, and clean water, better homes, clothes and medical care first IMO.

Nokia 770

[LiquidCoooled]

Isn't this similar to the Nokia 770?

Only more expensive...

Re:Nokia 770

[Mr Europe]

There's at least one MAJOR difference Origami is running some Windows version and Nokia 770 is running (Debian based) Maemo! Open source.

Re:Nokia 770

[Vengeance]

Not entirely:

THIS will have a battery life of about 2 hours, maybe 3 on the outside.

Re:Nokia 770

[Feneric]

You can almost say the same thing about it and the Newton. In many ways it's like a more expensive Newton with a very similar form-factor and even the built-in stand.

It has some plusses and minuses though.

On the plus side, it's color (the Newton is grayscale) with somewhat better resolution, and its wireless stuff is all built-in (the Newton has pretty much the same wireless capabilities but only via PCMCIA cards). It's probably got a faster processor (not clear at first blush from the specs) but I'm sure that difference will be absorbed by software.

On the minus side, the built-in stand doesn't double as a screen cover like it does on the Newton. It's heavier than the Newton. I'm guessing that with its color display its battery life will be nowhere near the battery life of the Newton. It's not clear from the specs, but unless they made some big changes its OS is unlikely to be as stylus-optimized as the Newton's, and since the stylus is its main form of input that's a big drawback.

Re:Nokia 770

[JFlex]

Yes it does.. but this one is gonna run Windows.. so its gotta be better!

Re:Nokia 770

[lazarus]

Yep. Strangely neither of these devices comes with a calendar. Something *I* would expect in a portable communications device. Clearly as these large powerful companies full of smart poeple don't think this is something I should have, I must be wrong...

Re:Nokia 770

[Deinhard]

Remember...it's running Windows XP. I think MS expects people to run Outlook for their calendar.

Re:Nokia 770

[BladeRider]

If you check out the Maemo software for the Nokia 770, they have Calendar software, todo, etc. It's the open source way to allow the user to decide what they want to install.

Re:Nokia 770

[at_slashdot]

Isn't this similar to the Nokia 770?

Only more expensive...

It's also uglier, on the flip side it probably can run all the viruses that are available for Windows.

Re:Nokia 770

[outZider]

Hey, fanboy. I love Newtons too, but get real.

  * It runs a real operating system
  * It has a processor that is faster by at least five times
  * It has a real display
  * It has a lot of software freely available

This, as a portable computer, is far more capable than a Newton. As a PDA, the Newton wins. By a hair.

Re:Nokia 770

[Frankie70]

There's at least one MAJOR difference Origami is running some Windows version and Nokia 770 is running (Debian based) Maemo! Open source


Yup.

In other words, the average chap wouldn't have to learn a new UI with Origami.
Also more existing software would work on it.

Re:Nokia 770

[LDoggg_]

In other words, the average chap wouldn't have to learn a new UI with Origami.

That is barely relevant.
You can pretty much expect that you'll get different UI with a handheld than you would with a desktop. Doesn't seem to be a problem when people get a new cell phone with a million options.

The major difference is in the toolkits developers will be using to produce software for the thing.

Re:Nokia 770

[Anonymous Slacker]

Correct.
From all the specs I can find on the Origami, it's just a small-form-factor TabletPC.
Uses Intel Pentium/Centrino M processor, up to 60GB HD, minimum 256MB ram, minimum 800x480 touchscreen.
And of course, full WinXP TabletPC edition.
- this means it does everything a desktop WinXP box will do and more, except high-end graphics hungry apps (no WoW, I presume).

I assume Microsoft is aiming at the potential consumers out there who like the idea of TabletPC but don't want to spend the typical $1400-2500 it costs for a full-sized one.

If I didn't already switch from a smallish-form-factor TabletPC (8.4" screen) to the smallest-form-factor WinXP Oqo Model 01 a year ago, I'd seriously be looking to get one of these when they hit the market.

I've seen the Nokia 770 in stores. The user interface isn't intuitive enough for my tastes (I'm a long-time windows user) and I was surprised at how small the screen is.
Granted, it didn't heat up as much as most Win boxes I've seen, and has impressive battery life, but that's mostly hardware as the 770 doesn't use a full x86 processor.
(for comparison, the Oqo uses a Transmeta Crusoe, and I get about 1 3/4 hours battery-life before having to swap batteries or recharge. They now have a double-sized battery available which should help on this end, but that adds to the bulk of the unit)

Tablet PC

[Eightyford]

I read the article, but I just want to be clear. Are these nothing more than smaller tablet PCs? I just assumed Origami was a bigger deal than that, considering all the hype.

Re:Tablet PC

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that Microsoft feel the Tablet PC concept didn't fail badly enough the last time they tried it, so in true Microsoft fashion they've reworked it, rebranded it and relaunched it as a NEW! EXCITING! same old thing. Except now they look like Sega GameGears and have a cheap plastic stand that fold out. Woo.

Re:Tablet PC

[e2d2]

I read the article, but I just want to be clear. Are these nothing more than smaller tablet PCs? I just assumed Origami was a bigger deal than that, considering all the hype.

Why is it, after every product release, someone says "is this it? I thought it would be more considering the hype".

What, do you actually fall for the corporate hype?

No product lives up to the hype, hence the word HYPE.

I'm not sure exactly what product you are waiting for but I have bad news - it's never coming. Except for the beer fetching robot, that really is coming.

Re:Tablet PC

[stinkwinkerton]

The tablet PC FAILED? Holy crap, someone better call all those businesses that are buying them for their employees!

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Sure, they didn't take over the laptop world, but the product is still out there and a lot of people are still buying them and using them. That's a far cry from failure.

Re:Tablet PC

[revscat]

Why is it, after every product release, someone says "is this it? I thought it would be more considering the hype". What, do you actually fall for the corporate hype? No product lives up to the hype, hence the word HYPE.Why is it, after every product release, someone says "is this it? I thought it would be more considering the hype". What, do you actually fall for the corporate hype? No product lives up to the hype, hence the word HYPE.

You can be disappointed without being gullible. I saw the initial "commercial" for the Origami back a few weeks ago, and what THAT showed was actually pretty cool. This, however, is very different from what was shown there but also pretty uninteresting.

I like technology, so even though I have next to no respect for Microsoft I nonetheless was interested. I'm also disappointed that this thing has turned out to be so banal. It has nothing to do with gullibility.

Re:Tablet PC

[e2d2]

Yeah true. I just found out about Origami from CNN yesterday and what is the first thing I do? I start wondering what the hype is all about. Dig a little deeper and find it's a tablet. Dig further and find it's another type of tablet and I'm a bit disappointed. I know that CNN has to draw eyeballs, but they totally spun it as if this secret product meant a whole new direction for MS, ala Apple with it's IPod.

Pretty much another let down.

Not this again

[timeOday]

I feel there's a void of uselessness in sizes between the PDA and the laptop. If I can't put it in my pants pocket, then I have to carry/backpack it, so it might as well be a laptop with a real keyboard.

Re:Not this again

[guacamolefoo]

I think that there is room for a device between laptop size and pda size. I remember the old HP Omnibooks and the Jornada-type devices.

MSFT's info says that this thing is the size of a paperback. Maybe a trade paperback. I'd like something in a clamshell design with a screen that is maybe the size of my HP17BII calculator, or just under 6" by about 3". A little keyboard below and a screen on top. Maybe use a Thinkpad nub for a pointing device. Allow PCMCIA and USB, and really that's all I want. I could add wifi via pcmcia if I really need it, or a Verizon wireless card that way.

I'd need maybe a couple of gigs on the drive, like 2 or 4. They can get that in an iPod, why not a small palmtop?

I wouldn't look for a really snappy processor, as battery life (and size/heat) would obviously be issues.

It would just be nice to have something small and thin to work with from time to time if I'm waiting in court or travelling or sitting at home with the kids. PLus, lugging around a laptop is a pain in the ass.

Re:Not this again

[guacamolefoo]

I think that I may have found something in the ballpark of what I want:

http://www.mobileplanet.com/product.asp?code=12897 7

(not pimping the site, just found it)

Anyone with OQO experiences, please feel free to share.

Re:Not this again

[shaka999]

Hmmm, personally I find a PDA near useless. Too small for anything but a calendar and my phone now takes care of that.

I think the new size could be perfect for many applications. I haven't heard media center mentioned but if this has XP media edition I think it could be a hit. Use this for a front-end on a box with a tuner and you can have a portable TV anywhere in your house. Not bad. Sony has been selling these for a while and ridiculous prices. The price points listed are cheaper then the Sony TVs and come with a bonus computer :).

Hype

[shamowfski]

I'd like to thank the Microsoft Hype Machine for providing me yet another huge let down. The fact that microsoft doesn't have an actual product to market I guess shouldn't surprise me, but for a few weeks, I did have hope...

The Reactions To Oragami Around The Net

[Anonymous Coward]

The reactions to Oragami remind me of on of my favorite bits from HitchHikers Guide:

"One of Zaphod's heads looked away. The other one looked round to see what the first was looking at, but it wasn't looking at anything very much."

This is new? Remember QQO?

[Winterblink]

Linky

I remember seeing this thing on a CNet video a year ago, it was extremely impressive back then running a full version of XP with all the inputs and outputs you could want.

more pics etc.

[DrSkwid]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/08/origami_um pc_clunker/

another MS hardware failure, to be sure

Re:more pics etc.

[pimpimpim]

_another_ MS hardware failure? MS hardware itself has a pretty good reputation actually, I know a lot of linux-only people that use a microsoft mouse for this reason. The OS can be another thing, as the register article mentions the daily reboot necessary for the previous tablet pc os.

Re:more pics etc.

[Overly Critical Guy]

Tablet PCs are regarded as a failure in the market, and the X-Box and XBox 360 haven't been as stellar as hoped, and that is what people are talking about when referring to Microsoft electronic devices. Mice and keyboards are a bit more trivial as electronics devices and don't really count. When it comes to real consumer gadgets, Microsoft has yet to sell a success.

This new Tablet PC device is uncomfortably sized between a small PDA and a small laptop, so it will be compared with both. If I want portable computing, I'll take a MacBook Pro. If I want ultramobile computing, I'll get a Blackberry. There's not much here to make Origami devices stand out from those two extremes.

not Microsoft hardware?

[acvh]

Ok, I didn't really read much on the subject, but it sounds like all Origami is is a spec for this small form factor ultra-tablet PC. That lets Microsoft talk like they've invented something cool, but require the hardware vendors to make the investment in product development. When it fails they can just blame the hardware guys, and roll the features into the next generation of Windows.

My version of this story was passed up for this?

[Kasracer]

I had several more sites with loads of information for my version of this article. I event had a link for umpc.com which is a website created by Intel for the UMPC community and even has a web forum with development information.

I feel cheated =/

Operating system : Windows XP....

[inmortal]

And how much is the cost of the operating system?

Ironic: Will they sell a version "empty" (without OS)?

Maybe you can install linux to it and then sell the windows OS and then have it for 100$ "less"?

cya

Re:Operating system : Windows XP....

[CastrTroy]

No, if Dell has taught us anything, it's that the Linux/ No OS version will cost $100 more than the windows version.

Origami with

[ikejam]

no particular identity
no particular use
no particular target client
no particular chance of success

origami (ôr'-gä'm) pronunciation
n., pl. -mis.

      2. A decorative object made by folding paper.

a decorative object...ohhh..i get it now..

comparable...

[Corf]

Active browsing time via Wi-Fi or Bluetooth is up to 3 hours. Stand-by time of the Nokia 770 Internet Tablet is up to 7 days. from Nokia.

You want intelligent design here, not evolution

[rogerborn]

There is a difinitive difference between the design paradigms of Apple Computers and Microsoft Window devices, and it affects everything you do with computers. The development of ORIGAMI proves this.

"Microsoft hopes the computer makers will make great UMPCs for the market." - B. Gates

"Let the market drive the design of these devices" - B. Gates

Do you see the evolution here? Let the market drive the improvements. Hands off the suppliers of these devices. Let them follow whatever pattern works. (Maybe they will get lucky...)

But it is the customer who suffers, right? People buy the newest things running Windows. What do they get? Beta devices. Buggy. Feature poor. Scant battery life. Rotten interface. Such a great way to build a world-class device that everyone desires, isn't it?

Now look at Intelligent Design in consumer computing. Look at anything made by Apple.

Most likely, you will find that any product made by Apple is of excellent design right out of the box. There is no throwing of the standards out to the market and hoping something intelligent immerges. Apple takes control of the hardware design themselves, and it is not released to the consumer until it is perfect, and with an intuitive human interface that work flawlessly. And what the consumer gets are jewel-like Nanos, glittering iPods, and awesome, elegant iMacs, MacBook Pros and Towers. Things anyone would be pleased to carry or place in their homes of offices.

Besides this, there is no hopeful evolution of Apple's software either. Instead, the software adds real value to the excellent hardware, and most of it is absolutely free. And if it is not free, it is well worth investing in, for the small amount that it costs. Nobody has software like Apple's software - Tiger OS X, iLife, .Mac, iPhoto, iDVD, iTunes, GarageBand, iWeb, iDisk, etc., etc.

Apple computers and iPods reflect intelligence in their design of both the hardware and software.

Let's just say, that in comparison to all the Windows devices out there, it is like the difference between a man and a monkey.

So, why choose chancy evolution in your computing over intelligent design?

Don't monkey around. Get a Mac. It is the intelligent choice.

Regards,
Roger Born
"Sorry. No Refunds"

Re:You want intelligent design here, not evolution

[PFI_Optix]

Most likely, you will find that any product made by Apple is of excellent design right out of the box.

You've obviously never used OS 8.

Don't monkey around. Get a Mac. It is the intelligent choice.

No, thanks. Don't like the things myself. Ever since the first iMac and Apple's abomination called iPod, I just have no use for their products. I can get the same (actually, better) level of functionality with a lot less money by going elsewhere.

But kudos on a well-written propa...err...post :D

Re:You want intelligent design here, not evolution

[vykor]

functionality != usability

One of the main lessons you learn in industrial design. It really doesn't matter how much functionality you can pack into a widget, or even how cheap (for some reasonable value of cheap) you can make the widget, if your target user base can't make proper use of it.

Many in the technology industry just don't "get it". Apple is starting down the right track, but even some of their stuff is mind-bogglingly unintuitive. And attitudes like yours is so very prevalent among the engineering divisions. "We have 2x the feature set they do at 80 percent of their price! Why isn't our product selling?"

It is really time that human interface design gets a bit more attention.

Re:You want intelligent design here, not evolution

[Billly Gates]

THe 1984 mac was brilliant and Apple made some pretty innovative things in teh past. I think the 1984 mac was one of the greatest revolutions since the www came into existance and brought computers to the mass and created windows, fonts, and UI's to the whole market.

The apple powerbook was the second. Apple came out wiht multimedia systems yeras before pc's did and its laptops came up with innovative things like touchpads and trackballs first.

Apple computers are designed for people and not high end users. Today I feel they are real artsy and designed to look cool but its all show. THe Ipod was a great idea too but mp3 players were on the market before. They just never really took off.

I purchased my ipod mini mainly because of Itunes. It had the largest collection of music around. MusicMatch and others are catching up with the amount of titles carried so its kind of mute today.

WIndows no longer is the piece of crap it was. Its expensive and proprietary but so is apple now.

I think Apple deserves credit for its past acomplishments but I would liek to see something innovative and new again. Not something artistic and nice to look at.

Re:You want intelligent design here, not evolution

[rogerborn]

Hey Billy!

Great analysis here.

Actually, I wish Apple would come out with the ITEM all of us seem to want - something to surf with, answer emails, and watch our media.

My idea is something between the iPod and the iBook - 9" IMOS wide screen (16x9), super thin clamshell, with a 55 key full sized keyboard. It won't need drives if it has enough flash memory, thereby giving it excellent battery life. let it download via USB2 and/or Bluetooth, with WiFi on board, and I think you have the device we all wish ORIGAMI was (and isn't).

Such a device would be so popular that clothing manufacturers would invent clothes and jackets to carry this thing in, IMO.

Regards,
Roger Born
"Always drink upstream from the herd"

UK:R had it right

[Rydia]

"Microsoft Is Putting a PC in a Different Kind of Box"

Re:Video?

[ikejam]

a wm5 dell axim when theres a discount on with The Core Media player could do.

plus its a pda with wifi as well....

ofcourse its hardly cool, but still.

or you could try creative zen vision, though im not a big fan of the build quality of theur mp3 players.

My prediction re: Origami

[Mille Mots]

My prediction is that the various manufacturers will fold early in the game. The design is just not cut out for success.

--
This sig left intentionally blank

What will Apple do?

[XxtraLarGe]

Apple hasn't come up with a tablet PC, does anybody here suppose they will try to come up with a competitor for this market? I'd envision them doing something along the lines of the eMate, obviously in color and much less garrish this time.

Agree 100%

[brunes69]

I had high hopes for this "Origami", I thought it would finally be the integration device we'vbe bene waiting for (cell phone, PDA, MP3 player, games machine, digital camera, all in an easy to use functional package), but I am very disappointed by this "brick" machine.

Sure, this may serve a neiche of people who want something smalelr and cheaper than a laptop but more powerful than a PDA, but how large is that neiche? PDAs and smartphones are getting better all the time, and like the parent said, if it is bigger than a PDA it might as well be a small laptop.

Competition for RadioShack TRS-80 Pocket Computer

[AppleTwoGuru]

"This new TRS-80 Computer is another "first" from the company which brought you the best-selling, world renowned TRS-80. A truly pocket-sized Computer (not a programmable calculator). Of course it is an ultra-powerful calculator too... And it "speaks" BASIC - - the most common computer language, and the easiest to learn. You'll soon be impressed by the phenomenal computing power of this hand-held TRS-80 - - ideal for mathematics, engineering and business application."

http://oldcomputers.net/trs80pc1.html

Re:Video?

[CPUGuy]

If the pictures of the as yet unreleased video ipods are real, then I'd hold off and get one of those.

Isn't this just an Oqo?

[sottitron]

How is this new, other than MSFT stepping in to screw it up? Check out www.oqo.com. I have been looking at them for going on 2 years now. Oh, and they DO have a keyboard...

Watch me be a hypocrite

[hey!]

OK, I'm going engage in something that I usually detest: predictive punditry.

Here goes: This thing is going to flop.

Here are the reasons why:

(1) It fits into the space between laptops and phones, the same place PDAs are struggling in. They will have to to steal market share from a declining market segment.
(2) Portable => form factor is critical && the form factor == Newton && Newton == marketing flop.
(3) The lowest conceivable selling price is equal to the highest conceivable buying price.
(4) Challenge the iPod? With something this big? Are they nuts?

I am a well known non-believer in convergence as a user concept, but as a marketing concept it's a winner. We'll probably end up with converged devices and laptops pincering any product category in between to death.

What this means is that if there are markets for intermediate form factors such as PDAs and small tablets, they will have to be cheap and as non-converged as can be -- they'll have to be built around a "killer app" for a some market segment. That probably means shirt pocket organizers in the sub $50 range, hand held gaming in the sub $100 range. These may accrete certain PDA like functions as a kind of "freebie", the way even rudimentary non-converged phones have calendars and alarms, but they aren't going to be the deal closers for the buyers.

MS license fee

[bombadillo]

The new PCs are expected to sell for between $599 to $999, but Microsoft said it is possible to sell one for $500 if the manufacturer selects components carefully.'"

The Microsoft spokesman added. Yeah you could definitely get a $500 dollar price point if you installed linu..... I mean less ram....

The nokia 770 runs linux though!

[porkThreeWays]

The nokia 770 runs linux and is more practical. 3rd party bluetooth headset support is available and an officially supported VoIP phone is going to be out in the next couple of months. And if for nothing else, it's fun to hack ;) 350 dollars retail.

Re:The nokia 770 runs linux though!

[ztirffritz]

You can actually install Asterisk on the 770 and make it into a PBX!http://www.cayennegraphics.com/asterisk770/

Re:The nokia 770 runs linux though!

[pNutz]

You can actually install Asterisk on the 770 and make it into a PBX!http://www.cayennegraphics.com/asterisk770/

Soon Nokia will make it even easier

From their website:

The Nokia 770 Internet Tablet's software is upgradeable and currently runs on the Linux-based Internet Tablet 2005 software edition. There is a planned launch next year of an operating system upgrade - the Internet Tablet 2006 software edition - that will support additional services, including Internet telephony (VoIP) and Instant Messaging.

Asterisk and Gaim pre-installed, coming soon.

Now if only it used CF instead of RS-MMC (why use reduced size cards in something this big??)

Re:The nokia 770 runs linux though!

[wanorris]

The Nokia 770 looks great -- the only thing I really wish it had was more memory. It has 64MB of RAM, 128MB of FLASH, and a tiny flash slot (RS-MMC) that doesn't come in very large sizes.

On the plus side, it's a USB host, so you can get a thumb drive or a battery powered USB hub and a 1.8" USB hard drive, but it's a little less portable with all that random stuff handing off it.

Re:The nokia 770 runs linux though!

[TheRaven64]

The 770 is nice (I have one), but is somewhat crippled by Nokia's decision to only put 64MB of RAM in it (just about enough for the kernel, X and one or two Opera windows). You can mount a swap partition on flash card, which helps a lot, but reduces the life of your flash card. It's also somewhat limited by the fact that you can't install applications on a flash card (just on the internal flash). Oh, and the fact that it has Nokia's 'so near, and yet so far' approach to usability. And the fact that that it doesn't support bluetooth file transfer or OBEX natively to anything other than a telephone so you have to remove the memory card (either physically or unmount it by plugging in the cable) in order to transfer files between it and a desktop.

Apart from that, it's great, especially at the price I paid for it (free).

I feel the opposite

[bradleyland]

I've been crying for something just a little larger for a long time. PDAs are great for IT professionals, but they're too small to be practical in many situations. I have a small form factor laptop, but it's just too big and cumbersome to use on the go, like at a client when they're walking around their office explaining what they want done.

Currently I use a pencil and paper, but I like to archive any documents related to customer service and change requests, so I end up either A) typing up my notes, or B) scanning in pencil drawings. Neither is much fun. I've toyed with OneNote, but it's an application looking for a home. I think this device will be it.

I could buy a tablet PC, but they're all large-ish, expensive, and get pretty hot. I need something smaller, with instant on, and decent battery life. I have a DC/AC inverter in my car that's always plugged in, so charging on the go isn't really a problem. I just need a device that fits these criteria.

Anyone else out there in my position?

PS - I'm also hoping that this has the option to run in portrait mode, as well as landscape. Any word on that?

Re:This is new? Remember QQO?

[JavaLord]

Yup, the OQO is sweet, and it looks smaller than the origami. The only problem with the OQO is the price, which is around $2000. I really want one, and have wanted one since before they came out but I doubt I'll pick one up until it's under $1000.

Ah yes another dismal failure.

[Anonymous Coward]

An employee of a certain company hated on $lashdot, I see the push of laptop owners to miniaturize systems and increase battery life while PDA owners wanting more functionality. The problem is that the UI needs to redesigned for each type of input desired: pen-based or keyboard/mouse-based. Software needs to be designed with each type of input in mind. Unless this can happen then we're looking at another flop. My greatest concern here is that the companies invested in miniaturization and a public that doesn't have the patience for another failure could mean this sort of concept being put on the back burner for a long time. As it stands, there must be a viable solution allowing consumers to have the ability to access and work on their data in the same familiar applications as they do on their home laptop/desktop systems. The only way to bridge this gap is to work with application developers. Quite frankly, without software being designed with a pen-based interface in mind, we've had UMPC functionality in the OQO for ages. And at least the OQO offers a keyboard. Why would anyone want to fork money over for the latest rehashed tablet-pc concept sans keyboard?

My advice to the backers of this concept is to focus companies into putting research dollars in more efficient processors and longer lasting batteries on the hardware side. On the software side, APPLICATION developers must be provided with UI standards to reflect pen-based input. I just wished people inside the company listened.

It's a Newton!

[aussersterne]

- Form factor is Newton 2100
- Wireless, etc. (just like Newton 2100 these days)
- Does everything a PC does (Newton surfed web, did email, ran webserver, word processing, spreadsheets, databases)

The device looks almost like a Newton sitting in the lady's hands, if you take a step back. Folks, this is the 2006 version of the 1996 Newton 2100 that everyone makes fun of Apple for. Of course, it won't be as good, because part of what made the Newton amazing was Newton OS, which is still one of the best OSes I've ever had the pleasure of using.

Replacing embedded systems USB will be the Key

[HighOrbit]

Over-hyped yes, but this will still have a niche of practical applications. First, it runs standard XP, which means you can now have your standard business applications in a smaller form factor.

Secondly, it is about the size as the Day-Runner that I used to carry around with me in the early-90s. OK, so now imagine a leather book-style case (like the day runner) that will hold a fold-up USB keyboard and mouse. You basically have an ultra light laptop.

I think the real niche for this is to replace traditionally embedded one-application devices like inventory systems. You can now have a much more full feature general computer. So now you can put a shoulder strap on this, plug in a USB device (like a bar-code or RFID reader) do your inventory, look up items on the locally cached database, and run custom designed perl-scripts on the data right there in the field. You will also be able to get away from highly proprietary systems and instead have lots of competing software and USB devide vendors and much better integration into your networks (since it is just a pc).



The bottom line is that you can now squeeze a standard PC into a smaller form factor. This will displace some embedded devices in places that we haven't even thought of yet. At this point, I see very little need for XP-embedded or CE, if I can have the full featured version running standard software. And remember, this is generation one. Future generations will probably have even a smaller form-factor with more powerful hardware.

Yep--hardware is the one thing they get right

[blueZ3]

I have three MS keyboards and two MS mice. The ergonomic "split-key" keyboards are great, with excellent "feel," a good layout, and they are quite durable. I know there are folks who take issue with the extra buttons (above the F keys) but they don't bother me (since I don't use them). The wireless mouse/keyboard combo that I use on my XP game machine at home is really nice, and the battery life has been decent. Since I spend my days typing (I'm a tech writer) a good keyboard is a must, and despite looking around quite a bit, I really haven't found anything as good as the MS keyboards.

On the other hand, I'm doing my best to switch away from MS's software. But that's another story.

Re:Yep--hardware is the one thing they get right

[jmorris42]

> Since I spend my days typing (I'm a tech writer) a good keyboard is a must, and despite looking around quite a bit,
> I really haven't found anything as good as the MS keyboards.

Get thee to eBay and buy yourself an IBM Model M or a Northgate Omnikey. They are both still available if you are patient. There is even a company that has bought the rights to the Model M's design and making new ones, can't recall the name right now. A couple of years ago I lucked up on a pair of Model M keyboards with a 1994 manufacture date still in the original sealed boxes. Put one at home and at work and have been happy as a pig in poop since.

Also have an Omnikey, it is very nice also but a little different feel. If I had a matched pair of em I might use them instead. The omnikey will even comes with extra keycaps and stuff to allow you to put CTRL back where God intended it, but since I have to use too many other machines I couldn't get away with that.

What it should have been

[0xABADC0DA]

The killer product in this market is simply a wireless display. Ideally this would have a e-ink, some wireless adapter, a smallish keyboard, and a custom chip that does VNC really fast and efficiently. Then you can use the cell phone network to get your actual computer and all of its capabilities from anywhere over the cell network or get fast response over a house/hotel local wireless network. Or 'rent' a virtual computer from the phone company.

It would be light, disposable, rugged, protect against data loss, fast (if 'close' to your computer), have excellent batter life (10+ hours), etc.

This is great for aviation

[Quarters]

If a company makes a new instrument to be installed into the cockpit panel of an airplane the device must literally go through years of FAA testing before it is certified. This is because the device is interfacing with the aircraft's electrical system, possible it's vacuum system, etc... If the device doesn't install into the panel and use the aircraft's systems then it doesn't have to be certified. This stipulation, along with PDAs, has led to an explosion of useful aviation aid software being written. HSIs, moving maps w/GPS, weather maps, flight computers, etc.... The only downside really is the small size of the PDA screen. While it could all be done on laptops the size of an average laptop is too big for the cramped cockpit of a Cessna 152, 172, 182 or a Piper, etc..

These Origami class devices look like the perfect size to be useful in the small environs of a single-engine airplane cockpit.

this is not the device you are looking for

[dmoen]

from the parent: I need something smaller, with instant on, and decent battery life

from the article: the new devices, which will have battery life of about three hours

This is not your father's Palm Pilot (or Newton). It won't have "instant on", because it has a 3 hour battery life, and when you turn it on, you will have to wait for it to boot Windows.

In other news, "New" is not necessarily the same as "Improved".

Doug Moen

Two friggin' pounds?

[93 Escort Wagon]

I was listening to my local MS fanboy / coworker / friend talk last week about how this was going to kill the iPod, cell phones, and PDAs.

This thing weighs two pounds, is absolutely huge, and apparently doesn't have the day-long battery life people were hyping (nor, obviously, the ONE pound weight).

I bet this could make a dent in the retail sector, replacing tablet PCs (Woo woo! Cheaper devices, less profit!); but there's no way anyone but a few dedicated MS fans will be lugging these around. MS is totally targeting the wrong sector.

Still the best note-taker

[BenEnglishAtHome]

If you don't mind keeping your drawings on paper and if all you want otherwise is to take notes, it's hard to beat a mid-1980s Tandy 102. (Lots of good info and links on that page, btw.) I'm dead serious. Up until a few years ago, I regularly wrote for publication. The gig required extensive travel and *all* I needed was something with a good keyboard to record text. For that simple purpose, these things are still amazing. Instant-on, rugged, super-lightweight, 20 hours of battery life from 4 AA batteries, exactly the right size to actually throw on your lap and get *real* work done - these attributes are nothing to sneeze at.

Compare the typing experience on a 102 to that of a modern PDA with an accessory foldable keyboard. Compare it to one of those idiotic thumb-driven toys. There is no comparison. If you learned to type the old-fashioned way, via a manual typewriter or, at best, one of those brand-fangled new IBM Selectric things, then what passes for a "modern portable keyboard" is a joke. In my heyday, I could pour text into my 102 so fast that the sound of individual keystrokes begn to get lost in a sort of clackety hum.

Right now, I temporarily don't use it. In two years, when I retire from my day job and start writing on the road again, you better believe my 102 is coming out of storage and I'm putting it back to work.

Re:Still the best note-taker

[BenEnglishAtHome]

...how the hell do you get the text off of it?

There are several alternative methods.

Once someone gets Linux running on it...

[PowerMacDaddy]

... it will be the perfect platform for running the Einstein Project on. For those who haven't heard of it, the Einstein Project is the Newton OS running in emulation on Linux PDAs, so you can ditch that klunky designed-for-the-desktop Windows OS and replace it with something better. Photos and more info here.

Another thought

[simong]

Lots of people thought that this was going to play games, and so was aimed at the PSP market. If they do it right, with a decent graphics card, it probably will, but only PC games, so the Xbox is safe. Lots of people thought it was going to be a media device, and with Windows Media Player, and a decent bus, it probably will be, but it has no removable storage, just a big disk for its size, and dumping a DVD on that big disc is contrary to principles of DRM. It has potential as a portable communicator, but my PDA does that all ready. A built in camera would allow it to extend its messaging capabilities, and hey, why not a 3G or UTMS connection while you're at it, but they're probably not in the hardware spec. So what is it? I'm sure it will include Office or a UMPC version of it, so you will be able to capture those moments of inspiration on the train, but you can do that with laptop for not much difference in price. It will play music and movies but so does my (insert small format mp3 player here). It's got a nice big screen for reading ebooks, and it's stolen a march on the Sony Reader. But it's too big for that and has the same battery life as a laptop. The Sony Reader ain't all that either.
Microsoft find it difficult to think beyond the PC platform, and as the PC platform increasingly means the office they find it hard to think beyond office apps. Maybe we should leave them to their devices (heh), and grit our teeth at work (or persuade our bosses that Linux/OpenOffice is cheaper and more stable), while enjoying convergence in the comfort of our living rooms, and maybe expecting to see UMPCs for cheap in surplus stores in a couple of years time.

RS-MMC goes up to 2gb now...

[blorg]

...with larger sizes on the horizon. Although I agree I would prefer if they used SD, which is now the most common card format (having overtaken CF some time ago.) At least the RS-MMC cards can be used in SD devices, and they are actually quite cheap. The 770 takes all RS-MMCs, it doesn't need low voltage like most phones (although I presume there is a battery benefit to going with low voltage.)

The only real limitation is the RAM; it would indeed by nice if they doubled or quadrupled this as it tends to run low on memory if you have a lot of large pages open (or numerous applications.)

The 770 is still light-years ahead of any other mobile device I've ever used (Palm OS or Pocket PC.) There is simply no comparison. The screen real estate is good, but the greater issue IMHO is the fantastic browser that it uses - there is very little that can come close to Opera in the mobile arena.

the real problem is battery life

[theStorminMormon]

I was really excited by the possibility until I saw the three hour battery life. This cripples the entire project, in my opinion, because it dictates how you use it. Unless you can reliably use it whenever you feel like it during the day without having to monitor battery life continuously or worry about it pooping out on you it's effectively tied to outlets (car, office, etc). I know that's how I'd feel about it because even though I can get 3-4 hours out of my laptop on battery I rarely use it that way because I'm always worried that when I really need the batteries they won't be there.

Until they can get all-day battery life it's just not interesting to me. By "all day" I mean 8-hours with moderate use as a BARE minimum, and I'd really want something more like 12-16. It should be as portable battery-wise as cell phones were when they took off or portable players are when they took off. Otherwise it's just not genuinely portable.

-stormin

MS Newton?

[jpellino]

Yikes. The pic on this MS press page looks eerily like a Newton...

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/features/2006/m ar06/03-09Mobile.mspx

I love them, but they're neither fish nor fowl, they can't fit in a real pocket and aren't enough like a pad of paper. When it gets to 8.5 x 11 x .5 and 3lb, we'll treat it like a true book or notebook and use it for everything.

As long as they think they're breaking ground, when is someone with a "full" OS device going to give us if nothing else a piece of paper screen factor, because let's face it - we're still tied to pieces of paper for handling and output and the sad legacy of 24x80 CRT for display... seems easier to munge the screen than the paper or our brains.

Man, the press thought the Apple event was a non-starter, this looks like the headline of the day is "Yippee - Another Newton | Tablet | eBook"

Why Microsoft is doing this

[perfessor multigeek]

Don't get it? Seems pretty damn obvious to me.

Okay now, it should be pretty obvious to everybody that this is fundamentally a defensive move by Microsoft.
- They've got the anticipatory buzz from the $100 laptop project hemming them in on one side, with early adopters (including me) saying "I've got to get me one of those and I'll gladly pay twice or three times the hundred dollar price".
- On the other hand they've got existing smart phones and increasingly funtional "super"mp3players like the newest iPods that are becoming more multifunction by the year and are now, effectively, PDAs.
- And internet access all over the place now, including devices integrated into seatbacks of high end air carriers along with web-based storage and more and more enterprise apps running on web-based apps anyway.
- Not to mention the tripling or quadrupling of the percentage of hardcore coders and sysadmins who now carry Mac OS laptops. Used to be that maybe one in twenty true geeks at, say, a UNIX conference had Mac OS devices. Now it's what, twenty percent? Twenty-five?
- And, the eight hundred pound gorilla here, all the game platforms BUT MICROSOFT now have mobile devices that are kicking ass and taking names, not to mention companies like Zodiac doing explicitly multipurpose gaming/pda devices.
So what does this add up to for Microsoft? It means high end business users, teens, early adopters, and damn near every highly desirable market is full of people asking themselves the question: "why should I carry my windows box with me?"
And even harsher, some are asking "Do i need a Windows box at all?"
So MS needs an answer to that question. Of course they've been coming out with some mobile platform model every two years or so for almost twenty years, most of which are flat out vaporware or simply garbage. And if this were about effective mobile devices that professionals are demanding, well, hell, there were excellent solutions available for that in 1993.

Of course, history is full of people doing the right thing for the wrong reason and maybe it doesn't matter why MS has brought this about (and make no mistake, this is their baby) if the results are good.

Except that it doesn't work that way in the computer world. If the driver is going the wrong way it doesn't matter how admirable the bus is. MS has long since been shown to retain iron control over their projects and if this is simply yet another round of a semi-vaporware (notice the paucity of shipping devices) meant primarily to make people less certain that they should buy nonMS devices, then MS will, as always, run this as a cynical bit of theatre, with cool anouncements vastly overshadowing actual shipping devices and quiet sabotage of any project that threatans it.

Despite his statements to the contrary, Otto Burkes was chosen to run this project, at least in part, precisely because his credentials would assist in FUD. Mark my words, eventually internal MS documents will come out that reveal that MS higher-ups were very concerned about the viability of this device in reality and as perceived as a counter to the mobile game platforms.

In every sense, Microsoft is trying to game us. After thirty years of deception and documented sabotage, we should know better than to fall for it.

And lastly, is anybody but me noticing the absurd factor that the ONLY reason this device is so heavy/clunky/expensive/battery-hogging is because MS apps and OSes are such resource hogs? Psions and other such devices have done just fine at all of the business tasks needed with a batttery life measured in days, not hours. For that matter, in terms of the features actually used, MS Office itself, circa, say, 1995 should be able to work just fine on a low power ARM or equivalent. I love that the interviewer asks "can you run Photoshop?" I run Photoshop all the time on a 300MHz machine with 198 Mgs of RAM w

Re:size, battery, and everything (reformatting)

[tixie]

I think that it is mainly about two things: size and energy. Both determine when and where you will carry it. The rest of it is just about "everything". :)

It is bigger than a cell phone or a PDA. If you like to bring a book around all the time, which is about the same size, you will be comfortable with it. If not, you will still use PDA or smartphone. In this sense, UMPC is more fitting for office and business environment since most of the time you will be carrying a bag anyway. It's defintely not something when you are excercising.

Energy saving is also crucial. However, this is so crucial as the size. Most tasks requiring long term constant-on features are communication-oriented. You are not likely going to run a long computation task on UMPC. Of course, energy-saving also depends on how the hardware and software are designed. For example, can all the unneeded parts be turned off? I still have doubts that windows xp can be very aggressive on energy efficiency since it is a PC OS anyway. Although new battery techniques are under heavy researches, time is needed to prove their acceptance.

Also, I think that the point of UMPC is to promote PC culture. Now that various portable entertainment devices are on the market. Some of them get quite powerful hardwares. It is not a surprise that people will begin to use those devices for general tasks while general tasks belong to PC field. So essentially the point of UMPC is about its "everything" and "everywhere". But that does not mean that UMPC is targetting entertainment. I think that UMPC is still to target less graphics-intensive applications.

Now back to the battery problem. General applications are less energy-demanding than graphics-intensive applications. Most of the time, most parts of a UMPC can stay asleep. So given the same battery technique, UMPC should have advantages over entertainment oriented devices. However, windows xp is a full PC operating system. Whether it can provide very aggressive energy-saving techniques remains to be seen. This also depends on how the hardware is designed.

full versions of software?

[lucas teh geek]

From microsoft.com:

Full-size software
Use full versions of Microsoft Office system software, Internet Explorer, and other Windows-compatible applications.

and

Hardware Specifications
Windows XP Tablet PC Edition 2005 OS
Approximately 7" diagonal display (or smaller)
Minimum 800 x 480 resolution
Approximately 2 pounds
Integrated touch panel
WiFi- and Bluetooth-enabled

Oh, its gonna be fun using full versions of Word on that 7", 480px high screen! thats probably almost enough to see all the toolbars

I love Microsoft. :D

[JackAxe]

Actually in the past, most tablets were only touch screens, which kept me away from them.

http://www.tabletpctalk.com/faqs/hwcomparison2003. shtml

I've been doing research on the newer tablets that implement WACOM digitizers, since I'm an artist and came upon the above link when trying to find out their specs. The first tablet I tried out was only touch screen and the problem with that, is that if you wrest your hand on it for sketching, or writing, it screws everything up. A digitizer using WACOM's tech, even though it's dated with no "tilt" feature, and only 256 levels of pressure sensitivity, is vastly more accurate than any touch screen I've tried, and more importantly, you can wrest your hand any where on the screen.

IMO, these things are just too big and kind of fall into an awkward inbetween area, where a product really isn't needed. They're too big to be convient like a PDA and are too limited to replace a notebook. I just can't see that many peeps buying one, since a notebook can provide soo much more for not much more. Samsung's version is selling for $1100, which makes it way too expensive for what it can't do.

I personally would like one of these, since they're full fledge computers in a smaller package, but at $3k, I'll be investing in a Wacom 21UX instead;
http://www.motioncomputing.com/products/tablet_pc_ le1600.asp (These things can be upgraded to 180 viewing angles.)

<]=)