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Time With The Revolution

IGN managed to get their hands on a Revolution Developer's Kit, and have put up a tantalizing hands-on impressions article. Folks who are very much looking forward to Nintendo's entrance into the next-gen war may find things of interest here. From the article: "One thing is crystal clear from the controller-based development kits, though: Revolution will definitely operate as an extension of the GameCube hardware. These preliminary kits include only a wired Revolution controller, a wired nunchuck attachment and a wired motion bar, which some studios have labeled the 'wand.' So the obvious question is, how can developers possibly hope to test any of this gear out? The answer is simple: the controller and its attachments plug into existing GameCube development hardware."

32 of 86 comments (clear)

  1. Drawing specious conclusions... by Quarters · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just because Nintendo made a low-cost controller dev kit by interfacing their new controller technology to their existing hardware doesn't mean that you can infer that the Revolution will be built on Gamecube hardware. All you can infer is that Nintendo has possibly made their prototype Revolution controller a derivative so that current Gamecube developers can explore the new controller paradigm without having to either buy, or wait, for the new Revolution dev kits.

    1. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 4, Informative

      First, they're saying that developers can use the Revolution controller devkit with the GameCube devkit. Also, it's been mentioned several times in the past (no links handy) that the Revolution will in essence be an evolution of the GameCube hardware.

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      This guy's the limit!
    2. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by TeamSPAM · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a bit of a nintendo fanboy and look forward to the Revolution coming out. The article may be jumping to conclusions, but they may not be that far off. Does it really matter if the Revolutions is just an updated GC? Other than the new controllers, Nintendo is just intergrating alot of existing technology.

      • Wireless controllers rock. I think this technology is mature and cheap enough to build it in.
      • Ethernet adapters. When the GC came out, I don't think the market was ready for online consoles. The Xbox changed that, just throw the ethernet chipset in and be done.
      • Cell Processor. The GC was already using a PowerPC chip, it'll just have one that is going to be about 5x faster.
      • Same thing with the video chipset. They market has moved forward, take something off the shelf and keep moving. While no HD resolutions may be a drawback. Nintendo isn't about pushing more polygons on your screen, they are about making fun games.

      I think if they can keep the core of the Revolution similar to the GC, then Nintendo might get third party developers on board a bit easier. They're keeping the learning curve low.

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    3. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lurker4hire · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually not really, since the GC CPU is already PowerPC, and IBM is making a new, presumably multicore, powerpc cpu for revolution.

      MS needed to emulate intel on powerpc, which is a much harder proposition.

      l4h

    4. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by chrismcdirty · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I would assume that since [presumably] it's a multicore, PPC CPU, it would be capable of running, in hardware, instructions designed for a PPC CPU on the same evolutionary line.

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    5. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "While no HD resolutions may be a drawback. Nintendo isn't about pushing more polygons on your screen, they are about making fun games."

      While I'm not saying Nintendo is all about the graphics, the fact that they don't support/require HD means the Revolution can output significantly more polygons per frame - it's not going to be spending all its power creating higher resolutions that won't even be used by most setups.

    6. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by lion2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah but the Xbox 360 also has the difficult task of emulating a different graphics chipset. If Nintendo wants to keep costs down and compatibility up then the Revolution graphics chip must be based on the gamecube's. Microsoft had no choice but to use a software solution since they did not own the rights to the Xbox graphics chip. Adding the xbox graphics hardware to the 360 would make the system even more expensive. Nintendo is still working with ATI so they wont have the legal issues that Microsoft had with Nvidia.

    7. Re:Drawing specious conclusions... by Jacius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      the Revolution will in essence be an evolution of the GameCube hardware.

      For the armchair developers out there, this is a good thing. The more similarity between the Gamecube and the Revolution in terms of architecture, the more quickly development studios can get the hang of it and start putting out some really interesting games.

      Every time a new console with a different architecture comes out, the studios have to start back at square one, and learn the intricacies of the new hardware. After a couple years of working with the system, the studio has built up their own custom library/engine to handle the basics, and they have learned several tricks for squeezing that extra "oomph" out of the hardware. This is why games that come out several years after the console often look, sound, and feel much better than lauch titles, even though they are using the exact same hardware. Compare, for example, Ocarina of Time with Majora's Mask on the N64: They both use the same hardware, and MM is obviously based on OoT's engine. But because MM didn't have to reinvent the wheel, the developers were freed to create an intriguing, even beautiful, experience.

      So if the Revolution's architecture is mostly a beefed-up Gamecube, studios should be able to quickly adapt their libraries to work on the Revolution, so they can spend less time worrying about memory management and polygon-pushing, and more time creating interesting ways to use the new controller. Nintendo, by using the Gamecube architecture as a base, has essentially given studios 5 retroactive years of experience with the Revolution devkits, and the launch titles should be must more interesting as a result.

  2. Game formats by DumbWhiteGuy777 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Isn't the Revolution going to be backwards compatible with GC games?

    Now that I think of it, what format are Revolution games going to be in? Certainly they won't use the mini-discs again.

    1. Re:Game formats by NekoXP · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Nintendo GC disk format is basically MiniDVD with a few tweaks and a larger inner circle (so it starts a little further in and ordinary drives can't find start of disc). The Revolution format is going to be DVD sized, exactly the same format.

  3. Nunchuck, Wand, and Controller by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yup, it's going to be a sweet gaming system to play

    Dance Dance Revolution Ultima

    Star Wars: Jedi Academy Training

    any interactive FPS (especially if they shoot back and you have a blink target vest)

    and Katamari: We Meant It, You Must Roll!

    [game names all examples, yes I own Konami stock and they have plans to do fun things for the Revolution, it's called disclosure]

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  4. get it right by MorderVonAllem · · Score: 5, Informative

    "IGN managed to get their hands on a Revolution Developer's Kit, and have put up a tantalizing hands-on impressions article."

    no...they go their hands on a Controller Kit, not a Developer's Kit. This kit was basically just to let developers know what kind of controller they'd be using when developing for the Revolution. That way they can start brainstorming now about possible titles that can utilize the controller while working with hardware they're already familiar with...

  5. that's ridiculous by egomaniac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nintendo made the controller available to game studios so they could start thinking about how to use it to develop games. Given that the controller is (by far) the most important change in Revolution, it's also the most important thing for studios to come to grips with.

    "Oh, and it's also five times as powerful as the GameCube" is also important, but not necessarily something that studios need to experience firsthand at this particular stage of the game. That will come when the hardware is ready. At this point Nintendo is (quite sensibly) concentrating on getting the controller right, because if that doesn't fly, the whole concept is shot.

    --
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    1. Re:that's ridiculous by C0rinthian · · Score: 2, Funny
      Given that the controller is (by far) the most important change in Revolution, it's also the most important thing for studios to come to grips with.
      *Rimshot*
    2. Re:that's ridiculous by interiot · · Score: 3, Funny

      In Soviet Russia, Revolution controller strokes ... no, that's not right. Lord, I apologize, and save all the starving pigmies in New Guinea.

  6. Sensor bar? by RyoShin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I was under the impression that the spacial recognition sensors were two distinct items placed at certain paces from the TV. However, one stationary bar (with the sensors on either end) makes a lot more sense, as you don't have to worry as much about calibration. It would then be a question of where it is in relation to the TV. (On the floor in front of, on top of the TV, right below the TV, etc.)

    Where are our pictures? All we have is a promotional side-by-side and an 'artists rendition'. If they went hands on, why not snap a few pictures, even if the tools aren't the final versions? I suppose they could have gotten some developer's janitor to let them in late at night to play with these (and didn't want to blow his cover), but the article is kind of worthless without pictures. "We got some prototypes. They don't plug into the actual hardware, we couldn't do anything with them, and we have no pictures." The only useful piece of information, IMO, was the size in relation to the GCN controller. (And even then, didn't they get a chance to go hands on with it back at E3 '05? Unless major changes happened, they should already know the relative sizes then, right?)

    1. Re:Sensor bar? by interiot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      We have pictures of the LCD TopGun third-party controller (see the bottom third of the page), which gives you a quick idea of how it might look, at least. Though Nintendo has said it will only be a single sensor bar, with two (three?) sensors on it, so hopefully it will be moderately less intrusive than the LCD TopGun.

    2. Re:Sensor bar? by kaiser423 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, technically yes, but practically no.

      Accelerometers drift. They are not perfect devices. They produce integration error, and that would become very large over the course of a gaming session. The controllers would become unusable after an hour or so and need to be re-calibrated. You can buy some amazingly accurate accelerometers, but they're expensive, very finicky and you have to do your design 100% perfectly, and you can't tolerate a single error. It is a serious PITA to design a system to do this, and probably nearly impossible to do it cheaply, and do it such that mass manufacturing in China with only ok quality control won't produce flaky units.

      Put in a couple of sensors on a bar to re-zero the accelerometers integration error transparently every now and then, and now you have a very robust system that's easy to design, cheap, simple and pretty fail-safe.

      Which would you choose?

  7. I don't care... by MaestroSartori · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...until I see it actually being used in games. Until then, it's a cool idea with absolutely no proof of how well or badly it works, and everything else anyone says is just uninformed speculation (from people who haven't played a game with it) or hype (from people who are developing a game with it).

  8. Old by vitaflo · · Score: 4, Informative

    The dev kits they saw were old. According to Reggie Fils-Aime (Nintendo VP of Sales) there have been 3 different revisions of the Rev dev kit so far. They are:

    1) A GameCube console with a wired Revolution controller attached
    2) Similar to the above, but with a few minor tweaks, and boosted CPU power
    3) Wireless controllers, more complete hardware

    A fourth dev kit is expected soon that will be 90-95% of the finished product. So whatever they saw, if it had wired controllers, it's already out of date.

    1. Re:Old by rohlfinator · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Nintendo most likely has a tiered distribution plan for development hardware: Big studios like EA, Ubisoft, and Capcom probably received these "controller dev kits" a long time ago, when smaller studios had nothing. Once Nintendo revised the hardware, the big studios traded their models in for newer ones, and Nintendo passed the smaller dev kits out to slightly smaller developers, repeating the process several times over the course of the year.

      Currently, the biggest dev houses likely have the most complete hardware, while others have some lesser version of it, depending on their influence, importance to Nintendo, and level of commitment to the platform. At this point, the developers who still have "controller dev kits" are probably the smaller ones who have shown less interest in the Revolution, but are still curious about it. It's entirely possible that this was the newest hardware at the studio IGN visited.

  9. Skins for the Wand? by rewinn · · Score: 2, Funny

    Think of the possibilities. Nintendo may open a whole new genre of x-rated games.

  10. Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Should be interesting to play with but I think that Microsoft and Sony are going to put Nintendo out of biz with the next gen consules. "

    Considering how expensive the XBOX 360 is, I suppose in a weird Harry Potter'esque way I could see people running out of money before they could buy any Nintendo products.

    --

    "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

  11. DDRR? by Langfat · · Score: 3, Funny

    don't you mean dance dance revolution Revolution?

    1. Re:DDRR? by chrismcdirty · · Score: 3, Funny

      I prefer to call it Dance^2 Revolution^2

      --
      It's like sex, except I'm having it!
    2. Re:DDRR? by LoverOfJoy · · Score: 3, Funny

      R2D2?

  12. Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Headcase88 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "People seem to be in a fevor pitch about the Revolution and PS3, one has to wonder what is going to happen to the Xbox 360. Only a little more than a million have been sold and almost all of the big name games for the console have better pc versions of its games coming out."

    Replace "XBox 360" with "Nintendo DS", "Revolution and PS3" with "PSP", and "pc" with "console", and you're getting pretty close to the general feelings of the DS when it launched.

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  13. Re:Microsoft Odd Console Out? by Traiklin · · Score: 2, Interesting

    that is what microsofts problem is, they made a PC into a Console, what Microsoft needs to do is try and get games to be truely exclusive to the system, no more PC releases of a game (or atleast try to get a years worth of exclusivity that way people don't say "I'll get the PC version").

    Sony & Nintendo have games that would be alittle hard to play with a keyboard and mouse, Microsoft has to many games that could easily be played with a keyboard and mouse (and in some cases play BETTER with a keyboard and mouse).

    now I wouldn't count Microsoft out just yet but they did pick a bad time to release the 360 (no one was ready for it, not even microsoft), game publishers are losing money on it, microsoft is losing money on it and everyone who want's one is having a hard time getting one. If they had just waited to start making the system now and release it this winter they would of been in a much better standing (cause you know Sony is going to wait till the last possible minute to start manufacturing PS3's which will result in a massive shortage just like Miscrosoft with the 360) and it will give whomever decides to make a system EASY to make (aka Nintendo) a major advantage cause they can make them in no time cause it's not filled with tons of crap people propably could careless about.

    when the PS3 and Revolution comes out Microsoft will have a hard time if they are still having trouble making the 360, Nintendo though might have the advantage, you KNOW there is going to be a shortage of PS3's when it's released (that's a given, after the PS2 that is the trend they will go) and if Microsoft is in the same boat they are in now (problems making the 360) then Nintendo will be the only one there easily for parents to pick up during the holiday season.

  14. I'm skilled enough at wasting time w/o this trash by Headcase88 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Which is why this article is so worthless.

    "Uh, we agreed not to take pictues, but, like, it's 'surprisingly' smaller than we expected. So, you know, in case you didn't see all those pictures at E3 showing it being held by hands, this article might be worth a shit".

    But since it's about the Revo and they use the term "hands-on", every gaming blog in the Universe has to link to it and give IGN undeserved ad revenue.

    --
    "When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
  15. Re:Nintendo wont be around next gen! by MorderVonAllem · · Score: 2, Funny

    Just because an IPaq can't do these things doesn't mean the PSP not a PDA. It's just the PSP is a powerful PDA that just happens to play games.

    I take that back, the PSP is not a PDA, it's just an emulator for the SNES that happens to have PDA functionality. There are so few games for the PSP it's not even funny...and given the sales data from http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=6110... it's not doing too well against two of the same machine. (In Japan)

  16. Bring back the '80's by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 3, Funny
    Time With The Revolution

    Thats shows how old I am - I saw that headline and immediately thought that Morris Day was getting back together with Prince!.

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    Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  17. And you don't pay attention by aitikin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    IGN used it already, about 7 months ago. They found it to be quite responsive, although they were only working with tests and what seemed to be an alpha version of Metroid Prime 3, but they were quite impressed with it.

    http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651275p1.html

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