Preventing RSI?

conJunk asks: "How do you protect against RSI? I try to practice good typing habits, but without the aid of wrist splints, I tend to get cold wrists. The splints are great, but they slow down my typing by a fair bit. What do you all do?"

Comments

Workrave

[tka]

I have workrave running on my computer. It's great!

Re:Workrave

[Bromskloss]

I have workrave running on my computer. It's great!

I tend to be sceptical when people recommend some program enthusiastically. I followed your advice, however, and it really is great! I immediately feel better!

Rest and exercise

[Unipuma]

I have made it a habit to take my hands of the keyboard and mouse whenever I am in a conversation with someone, or whenever I'm not actively typing or using the mouse. Have a pen or pencil to play around with also helps to keep your fingers moving around at that time.
I'm also a (not very accomplished :) freeclimber, so I tend to exercise the muscles in my arms once a week, and because you can quickly cramp up while climbing, this has taught me to relax my lower arm muscles whenever I'm not actively using them.

I've been using computers intesively for over 15 years and haven't had any symptoms during all this time.

Outsourcing

[Inverted Intellect]

I used to outsource all my typing to India.

When my boss complained about my spelling and vocabulary, I told him I'd gotten dyslexic.

atm, I'm an RSI-free full time couch potato. Too bad I can't outsource channel switching...

Change your habits, change anything.

[dekaysion]

I was lucky to never really develop major RSI related injuries, but I got very close, and I am still very alert when it comes to feeling pain in my hands. Generally I guess you could characterize the means for prevention into hardware and software (which mostly includes changing habits i.e. brainware as well).

Hardware:

• Mouse alternatives (like a tablet, trackball or, better, a combination of as many input devices as necessary)
• Ergonomic keyboards
• Ergonomic anything, desk, chair, office. There ARE many ways to get hurt or at least work on your chronic situations, not just RSI but back pain etc.
• Medicine: In my case whenever I am in a phase where I need to work on a computer exclusively I start developing pain in my right hand, some kind of inflammation - which can be taken care of 3 days with ibuprofen or diclofenac. And which also keeps the thing under control for about another 9 months or so. Talk to your doctor!

Software:

• Break Scheduler: Software that enforces breaks, micro breaks; shows stretching tips etc.
• Habits: change your habits, change your posture, change your input devices - do anything that keeps you from burning into one repetitive posture/gesture/.... (As with all things in life - change is good)
• Macros, Automation: get a good spell checker, get a good macro software, program your editors to do things for you thereby reducing the repetitive work.

Some links/Linklists: ;)

thread at 43folders

google RSI prevention

btw: where is markdown formatting in slashdot's comment form?

Go by what you feel

[baryon351]

Go by what you feel when you're using a computer. If you feel something hurting, stop. right away. Then look at what you're doing and what could cause it, and try something different.

12 years ago I worked in a department that insisted on bucketloads of ergonomic tricks to make things easier for people. If we were just using mouse and plain keyboard, we were pushed to try trackballs, wristrests for mouse & keyboard, split keyboards, ergo chairs etc. That made for a culture of workers feeling free to say "this isn't working for me, let me try something different" and most people found their niche setup, using components they didn't know were available to them, or didn't know were an option in the workplace.

As it turns out I tried trackballs and found them cripplingly painful, and ergo chairs were comfy while I sat on them but locked my knees painfully into place. I'm most comfortable with plain old keyboard and mouse, and have been RSI free with that setup for 22 years. It's the best solution for me, and if that works for you too, don't be in too much hurry to change.

Re:Go by what you feel

[The Fun Guy]

If you feel something hurting, stop. right away. Then look at what you're doing and what could cause it, and try something different.

The same advice could be given to undergraduates taking CompSci courses.

Things that work for me...

[zenmojodaddy]

Wrist rests may work for some, but I find that they place pressure on the wrists and forearms right where I don't want it. My recommendations:

1) Posture is important. Have a look on Google for guidance on arranging your workspace on ergonomic guidelines. Also, consider seeing a chiropractor - a competent chiropractor will be able to track down areas of weakness and suggest exercises to strengthen muscle groups which are causing problems. Which leads to:

2) I find that regular light workouts with a set of dumbells help - make sure your arms can support themselves!

3) If I find my forearms are getting a little sore, contrast bathing is helpful. Bathe your arms for a minute at a time in cold water, then hot water, then cold again, alternating back and forth and always finishing on cold. Do that once a night for a week or so.

Usual caveats - I'm a geek, not a doctor, dammit; your mileage may vary; if you're really having problems, see a doctor rather than asking Slashdot...

Don't take medical advice from me...

[mwvdlee]

...but I have typed/moused daily for the past 12 years of my life and have never had any RSI problems. I'm a fulltime programmer and program as a hobby too, so you can imagine the amount of time I spend behind a keyboard.

My secret; don't use wristsupport of ANY kind. The majority of RSI problems stem from straining your wrists, so don't strain them. My wrists are usually floating because I support my arms at my elbows if needed; the area of motion allowed just by skin flexibility (not even adding flexibility in clothing layers) around the elbows alone is enough to reach the entire keyboard and mouse physical space.

At home I have a custom-built desk which lowers the keyboard and mouse to a comfortable position (just above my lap) where I don't even need to support anything; now I'm able to use all the muscles in my arms for the required motion; which is far easier.

Often I see colleagues using wrist supports for their keyboards, where they quite literally push their wrists into the support and produce all motion from flexing the wrists; a sure way of getting RSI.

Just try keeping the wrist afloat and everything will go much smoother. Perhaps even try raising the keyboard from your desk a bit if that makes it easier.

Re:Don't take medical advice from me...

[The Cydonian]

In old days when people used typewriters there was never any RSI

Then again, people in the old days didn't slack off in front of typewriters, trying to be funny in responding to strangers across the world... ;-)

Re:Don't take medical advice from me...

[Aceticon]

I use the same trick.

When i was a teenager i actually got into the early stages of RSI (i had loss of feeling in the palm of my hands) due to programing at home while supporting my wrists in the border of the table (ie the keyboard was next to the border of the table).

Nowadays, 15+ years later, after working as a professional softwared developer for several years, i have no RSI symptoms whatsoever. No special keyboards, plain-ol-style mouse, no wrist support or any other support watsoever other than a table.

The big secret:
- Position your keyboard on the table far from you (typically next to the monitor). Your elbows should be supported by the table. When your arms are parallel, with your elbows supported by the table your fingers should reach the second top row of a common QWERTY keyboard (ie not the function keys row, the one below it).

Typing is a question of moving your hands from side to side (and your fingers up and down :) ) with your elbows fixed in place or just slightly moving. Only pressing function keys ( a comparativelly rare operation) will require your to lift your arms from the table. Most of the time the whole arm (almost up to the wrists) will be supported by the table. With the mouse next to the keyboard, picking the mouse and moving it is also a question of rotating your arm on your elbows and (posssibly) sliding it around a bit when moving the mouse.

A couple more usefull tip i've picked up:
- You chair should be to such a height that with your legs bended at an 90 degrees angle, the whole sole of your shoes is on the floor.
- Your screen should be in such a positions that your chest (and face) are facing the screen. If your position relative to the screen is such that your head is turned you're strining your neck
- Your back should be fully in contact with the back of your chair and at a 90 degree angle to your legs (thus ||_ ). If your ass is forward (towards the front of the chair, like |\_ ) then your are straining your chest muscules (if you have chest pain it's probably this or a heart problem ;) )

Re:Gel wrist rest attached to mouse mat

[Xtifr]

I've never understood those gel pads. What good does a pad positioned an inch or so below your wrist do? :)

The most important thing, in my opinion, is a chair with arms. If your elbows are properly supported, your wrists don't need to be, because they'll be in mid-air. If your wrists are resting on anything, you're doing something wrong.

I suspect the split-style keyboards are good, but I've never bothered with them. But I can see the attraction.

Sue?

[HaydnH]

1) Move to America
2) Get RSI
3) Sue
4) PROFIT!!!

Wrist exercises?

[lisaparratt]

I know I'll probably get the piss taken out of me for this, but I tend to do a lot of glowsticking - often up to an hour a day, in the privacy of my home. It's fun and fairly good exercise, plus it means gonig out clubbing all night doesn't leave me a smouldering wreck the morning after.

It mostly involves fluidly moving the hands via the wrists faster than the eye can see, along with a fairly hefty dose of arm waving, continuously, for anywhere from an hour to ten hours.

I've never been able to tell if it's good or bad for me. I don't have RSI, but then I didn't have it before I took up glowsticking, either.

Anyone know? Us ravers need to know! :D

Sitting properly!

[MaestroSartori]

I know, sounds daft. But setting up your chair for *real* comfort as opposed to slouching, with a view to helping your wrists stay in the proper position.

Your chair should be high enough so that your feet naturally lay flat on the ground, and your thighs are perpendicular to your shins. If you have one of those annoying spring-backed chairs which let you lean way back, lock it all the way forward for support. Some chairs have adjustable back supports too, move them to the correct place (which I think is supporting the lower back).

At this point, sit up straight and reach your hands out in front of you to a comfortable position. Put the keyboard under them, with the mouse mat next to the keyboard. This should be a decent position for you to work from without straining anything.

A tip I've had from people who get back pains at work is to buy a really big exercise ball, and sit on that instead of a chair. You'll look stupid and people will mock you, but it really helps build up the lower back with all the unconscious movements you use to keep balanced on it. Of course, if your balance sucks you'll fall off and get mocked even more ;)

There's no magic bullet

[hcdejong]

i.e. no single item can prevent you from getting RSI. You'll have to combine healthy work habits, regular exercise, and good equipment.
- Work habits: Set up your work area correctly. Desk height, chair height, monitor placement, etc. You should be able to find a relaxed position. Take regular breaks, and do some exercises during those breaks.
- When you're at home, don't spend the entire evening sitting at your home computer.
- Exercise: Couch potatoes are more susceptible to RSI (and a host of other problems).
- equipment: Use a good mouse (optical, low-friction worked for me, YMMV) or trackball, etc. Consider getting an ergonomic keyboard. Lighting, and a good monitor are important too.

One cause of many RSI complaints is 'static tension': the muscles in your arm and hand are contracting but not moving. The muscles need movement, so every 10 minutes spend 20 seconds to stretch your arms, relax your hands etc.

RSI - stop it or you'll go blind!

[Half a dent]

Since I stopped visiting "adult" web pages my wrist RSI has greatly improved!

Re:RSI - stop it or you'll go blind!

[cerberusss]

Since I stopped visiting "adult" web pages my wrist RSI has greatly improved!

This is slashdot. Of course this gets modded informative...

Re:Cold wrists?

[hcdejong]

Why can't I mod you -1 Moronic?
IANADoctor, but it seems to me that cold wrists can be a sign of the blood flow being cut off, or nerves being pinched, both real, and possibly dangerous problems. Even if not, cold extremities are annoying and do make typing harder than it needs to be.

eyes?

[Chimera512]

this doesn't exactly relate to RSI, but recently I find myself with sore eyes after using either my computer or reading for more then an hour or so at a time; i assume this is just eye strain? will going to an optomitrist or getting glasses help me? My vision is fine, if not good otehrwise, eyedrops don't seem to help so it isn't just dryness.

May sound daft but..

[Gaewyn L Knight]

This may sound stupid... but recent studies are showing that most people that get RSI actually get most of the damage from sleeping on their hands at night.

So...
#1 No hands under the pillow/head
#2 No hands between the legs to keep them warm
#3 If you ever have numb hands from cuddling your S.O. that's a no-no also

I changed my sleeping habits just that little bit and now no matter how much I abuse my wrists at work programming or playing Enemy Territory I have no more pain.

Re:May sound daft but..

[superpenguin]

This is quite important. I don't know about the claims of "most people" getting their RSI this way, but it is a factor.

I am a musician, and musicians, especially string players (I play cello) are notorious for wrist problems. Our problems tend to be more in the line of tendonitis than carpal tunnel (that's what the pianists get), but a lot of the general preventative measures are pretty much the same.

I've had wrist problems on and off for the past several years, and one of the string faculty at my college mentioned this sort of thing when I asked him about my wrist problems. He suggested wearing a brace at night, and it really does help. I actually use two different braces on a fairly regular basis. One is just a wide elastic band that wraps around the wrist. It provides a little support, and keeps me from extending my wrist too far (which is what gives me a lot of problems), but still provides a pretty good range of motion (enough that I can play with it). This one I wear quite frequently. Always when I play and frequently just for a little extra support. The other is more heavy duty and fits more like a fingerless glove with a wrist extension. This one has a metal insert that runs along the underside of the wrist and the palm. I use it whenever my wrist is really bothering me and I need to keep it relatively immobilized and also whenever I'm lifting weights or doing any other kind of heavy lifting. It's okay for mousing, but it limits the range of my thumbs, so it's no good for typing.

So I often wear one or the other when I sleep, and I have changed my sleeping habits a bit. I actually sleep with my hand under the pillow, but that's because my main concern is keeping that wrist straight, as my problem is tendonitis, not carpal tunnel.

As far as general ergonomic guidelines, I've also learned a good bit about that due to hurting myself by playing my instrument (I had a lot of back trouble a couple years back, which is mostly gone at this point, thanks to some changes I made). One of the main things to keep in mind is that any tension, especially in your spine, will spread to the rest of your body. One of the most common places for tension to start is in your lower back. The reason for this is that the human hip is not designed for a 90 degree angle between your torso and your upper leg. If you actually have that angle, it's because the last couple degrees are coming from your lower spine. This sort of static loading will kill your back. Unfortunately, most chairs aren't designed with this in mind. Your best bet for a chair is something with a relatively straight back and either a flat seat or one that tilts slightly forward rather than back. My chair of preference is an old swivel chair that my mom pulled out of a dumpster with the intent of reuphostering the seat. I stole it and used it as my computer chair for several years before college, and I still use it. During my undergrad, it was the only chair on campus that I ever found that was truly comfortable. It has a flat seat and an adjustable back (which I keep low for lumbar support) and can be adjusted to be pretty tall (which is important since I have very long legs).

Static loading on the lower back basically means that even though you don't look like it, you're actually hunched over forward. Obviously then, that tension travels up to the shoulders and neck, and if your shoulders aren't relaxed, your arms and hands can't be. So reduce static loading on your lower back and you're already helping yourself.

The other component to my ergonomic computer setup is a desk I built for myself. I designed it with my ugly chair in mind, so that the keyboard tray is just above my lap (although for long typing sessions, I still prefer to just pull the keyboard off and put it on my lap). One thing that departs from conventional wisdom, but that works pretty well for me is the fact that my monitors are fairly high. I built the desk primarily because I needed something that I could have my computer and my

RSI overblown

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

I have been programming for over 10 years, 8 - 12 hours a day, 5 - 6 days a week, and have never suffered RSI. I am a touch typist and can type 50 - 80 wpm, never really bothered to measure it.

The problem I find with most people that have RSI caused by typing is that they tend to keep their wrists in a rigid locked position and they tend to pound on the keys with their fingers. This WILL cause RSI because you are constantly straining your tendons unnaturally. My brother-in-law types fast, but he does it in short bursts, his wrist and arms go rigid and he types blazingly fast, fingers pounding on the keyboard for about 30 seconds, then he has to stop and rub his wrists because they are sore. RSI is repetitive STRAIN injury, and by keeping your wrist rigid and tendons strained, this is how you cause the condition.

My typing style is relaxed, and I am not measuring or care how fast I type. By not keeping my wrist rigid and only applying enough pressure on the keys to depress them enough to register a press, I quite honestly that this prevents me from the kind of RSI problems most people suffer from. I find that relatively slow and steady will beat out the productivity and discomfort of trying to type blazingly fast for short bursts. I can maintain a consistent typing rate for hours that will exceed someone typing in quick short bursts and having to stop because the pain becomes unbearable.

Another thing I believe in is that your company or boss has to give you the right tools to do the job. I will refuse to program if I don't use Microsoft's Natural Keyboard. I have used one almost my entire programming career, and before it, in the early days of using those straight unnatural keyboards, I did feel I was starting to suffer some strain in my wrists. Since then I have found this keyboard layout to cause no undue strain on my wrists. If your boss is too cheap to buy you the right equipment then it will pay in the long run for you to invest in your own equipment. If your not allowed to bring your own keyboard and/or mouse into your office, then quit. You work to live, you don't live to work, and any company that doesn't recognize that they must cater to your personal comfort and safety at work is not a company you should work for. This goes too for the kind of desk and chair you sit in. A chair without adjustable height and adjustable arms so that you can position your arms appropriately to the height of the keyboard is essential to proper typing technique that does not involve RSI.

Another important factor is to simply take a break, at least 5 minutes every hour. Get up and walk around, get a drink from the water cooler or something, go to the washroom. I rarely spend more then an hour of solid typing without giving my body a break. Even if your boss ties you to your desk, just stop, drop your arms and take a rest for 5 minutes.

Most people assume that typing causes RSI, that there is no way to avoid it because the motions of striking fingers onto a keyboard is the fundamental definition of RSI. Bullsh*t! If you are suffering from RSI then you significantly underestimated the importance of ergonomics in your work environment. Change that keyboard and change your typing habits, pay attention to how your holding your wrists, if rigid learn to loosen them up, stop trying to go for speed records typing as many words per minute as possible (its not a competition) and realize you don't have to strike your keyboard with a lots of force in order to move those keys. If you can't touch type, then learn to, its more efficient the the 4 fingered speed hunt and peck that most people do when they don't know how to type. Your wrist splints are probably more of a hindrance then they benefit, and the fact you mentioned they slow down your typing suggests you feel quantity is better then quality.

There is no one single thing you can do to prevent RSI, its a collection of habits and the tools you are using that are causing it. But I can safely say with the right combination of both, you should experience no pain or RSI symptoms, period.

Re:Gel wrist rest attached to mouse mat

[klui]

I have RSI and I can say definitively that when typing your palms, especially near your wrists, should not be touching anything. Your blood vessels and nerves are especially close to the skin in that area and if they are compressed for an extended period of time RSI will develop due to lack of proper blood flow.

The parent poster is absolutely correct. A chair with good arm rests (I have one with gliding armrests) will support your arms, wrists, and hands in the correct position. Blood vessels/nerves are not as close to the surface in your arms.

Bottom line: there is no need for palm rests. Used improperly, palm rests will do more harm than good--they should only be used if you're not typing/mousing.

Best keyboard is the no-longer-manufacturered IBM Options SelectEase, IMO. Keyboard is physically split far enough your wrists do not angle outwards when your fingers are on the home keys. This separation allows me to put a trackball in-between, enabling left- or right-handed use. I can no longer use mice without my hands hurting after 30 min.

Get rid of the lazy typing posture

[hubie]

Get your forearms and wrists off of the table and sit in a proper manner. This is certainly something that history can teach us. I don't think it is any accident that RSI is a relatively new thing.

A hundred years of typing pools, and several hundred years of piano playing tell you how to sit and work, and it is no accident that proper typing posture is the same as proper piano posture.

I just Googled up an interesting site that discusses both issues.

Agree:Take breaks.

[blueZ3]

I was getting RSI in my hands from too much mousing and typing. After a couple of months of ignoring it, things got bad enough that I was feeling some low-level discomfort all the time, not just when at the PC. It got to the point where my wife would ask me to open jars and I couldn't seem to grip them tight enough to get the lids off. Bad. (Sometimes I'm sure that's the only reason she married me :-> )

Anyway, I did some research and started taking breaks. I get out of my chair for at least 5-10 minutes every hour. I walk down to the break room and grab a bottle of water, wander over to visit the developers (I'm a writer), or walk around the outside of the building. This has helped immensely, and at this point the pain is pretty much completely gone.

If you use the mouse a lot and the pain is mostly in your right hand/wrist, you might think about trying to use the keyboard as much as possible. It seems that squeezing the mouse tightly (which is something that's easy to do unconsciously) and holding your arm out of line from your body (since the mouse is too far to the right because of the keyboard) are common causes of RSI in the right hand. Switching to keyboard shortcuts is a way to limit the amount of mousing you have to do.

YMMV, of course.

Re:Cold wrists?

[billcopc]

Well jiminy the man doesn't have RSI, he just hasn't paid his heating bill since the dot com bust!

Re:Mind Over Matter

[ianmh]

Sorry, but this is BS, I had very severe RSI for awhile. It got to the point where I could hardly hold a glass of water without shaking, and it was extremely painful. RSI will also cause depression for obvious reasons. I am a computer enthusiast, I love my job, and I love computers, design and and gaming. I really don't think anyone can understand RSI unless they have had it. It seems too trivial from a non-suffers point of view. I remember having a teacher warn me about it 10 years ago, and I laughed it off with others.

RSI will not effect everyone, just like many diseases and viruses do not effect everyone, but when it does it can become a very serious situation, and the problem is it is not taken serious by the general public. This is partly why you feel so helpless when you have a severe RSI. Usually you are in a repetitive job, like IT or Design. Your productivity slows down greatly, you are in constant pain, and day to day life becomes a chore. I know I am sounding dramatic, but it can be this bad, and I have total sympathy for anyone suffering from it. There are varying degrees and types or RSI's too.

The good news is most people can overcome it to a degree. I still get pain now and then, but no where near what I was suffering from two years ago. Stress can be a major factor and was partly to blame in my case, but it is not always the case, many other things, like a cold working environment, or bad posture. Its far easier to get it then get rid of it. I read a lot on RSI's, and most of the stories went like this. (Started feeling a bit of pain one week. Ignored it. Got worse the next week. Felt crippled the third week. Took over a year to get rid of it).

I used wrist braces which helped a lot, and bought a special keyboard, used a wacom tablet instead of a mouse and paid attention to posture. Now I can use a normal keyboard and mouse too without pain.

If you have RSI, there is a load of good information on the web, and you can get rid of it slowly but surely.

Ulnar Nerve At the Elbow

[unidyneVII]

I'm not a doctor, but do be careful about relying too much on armrests. Actually, even just leaning on your elbows too much. Theres a nerve that goes through your elbow called the ulnar nerve which gives feeling to the pinkie and ring fingers; if you compress it too often, then it can actually develop problems at the elbow (exascerbated by stuff like resting your arm on the window while you drive/depending heavily on armrests/leaning on elbow while sitting at tables). A new type of strain injury? It so happens that this is the same nerve that you hit when you slam your elbow into stuff -- the "funnybone."