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AjaxWrite to "Compete" with MS Word
prostoalex writes "Michael Robertson (of MP3.com, Linspire, SIPPhone, GizmoProject and MP3Tunes.com fame) is launching a Web-only competitor to Microsoft Office by creating a suite of applications replicating Microsoft Office look and feel. From the posting: "But ajaxWrite is just the start. We have a library of applications we have been working on to replace most of the standard PC software titles. Every week we will launch a new sophisticated program on Wednesday at 12:00 PST on ajaxlaunch.com. These programs will push the boundaries of what people believe is possible today with web-delivered software. These programs look and operate much like their traditional software cousins, but are cross-platform, loaded dynamically, and are available to users at no charge. I'm convinced if you try a few of these products you will understand how the software business will fundamentally change." ajaxWrite is the first launched product."
AjaxWrite to "Compete" with MS Word
Not if he doesn't learn a lot more about the DOM, and fast.
I was all ready to complement the AjaxWrite team on having finally delivered the first online wordprocessor with full font-sizing abilities. Then I realized something: There are only 7 font sizes. The same 7 that are supported by every rich text editor in existance. Why only seven? Because those seven are built into the rich text editing component that's included with Mozilla and IE. If you want to allow arbitray font sizes, you have to delve down into the DOM and start some complex tweaking.
All AjaxWrite has done is hide these facts by assigning standard font sizes. Anyone with the right info could replicate this "feat" pretty easily.
Sorry, nothing to see here.
The bright side is that his app supports the Microsoft DOC format. How well it supports it is an open question, but he probably is using a library like POI to do the heavy lifting. Nothing wrong with that, but also nothing ground-breaking. I imagine that many users will drop this tool as soon as they realize they can't properly match font sizes.
Let's check back next week and see if his next attempt is more interesting.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Well, this guy may think he's replaced WORD(tm) but I was unable to:
Until they get at least some of these features write, I'm forking over my $499.
Oh wait, did I just say that out loud?
All seriousness aside, one feature this really doesn't have (at least I couldn't find it) I absolutely must have is spell check. I'm kind of surprised, cuz it seems everyone is introducing some form of spell check instantiated in their latest ajax offerings (including other web word processors... e.g.,
- Writely
(not currently taking new registrations, but soon!)
- Zohowriter
)People, in my experience, don't necessarily want to be on the web to use a word processor/similar application. Takes the whole portability factor out of laptops as well. I don't see this being a popular option in the home market. Business market, possibly..
{} ------ When I think of a good sig, I'll put it here
My web browsers crash all the time and I'm always closing the windows by accident. And I'm supposed to use this as a host for my *word processor*? Is this really a good idea? Unless all storage is on the server and it has a VERY smart autosaving strategy, I don't really see this as being the tiniest bit useful.
"Click on the ajaxWrite icon to launch an MS Word-compatible word processor in seconds".
Many seconds. Many, many seconds.
"Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 207.67.194.7."
I want a web-based word processor so that my letter to Mom can get slashdotted?
Quick review... Problems: ...making it useless /. very well, it's really slowing down.
1. spellchecker isn't working yet (there, but grayed out)
2. I will let you close the window and loose you work without a warning. That's a big minus in my books.
3. And it's not handling the load from
Other that that it looks okay. Like most of the web mail apps from Yahoo and Google. Expect that I like the drop down menus, very intuitive and easy to navigate if you use regular word possessors. They will need to add online storage to make it really useful.
I just don't see how a web app using AJAX is going to compare to MS Word. Let's be honest AJAX techniques hardly compete with traditional development languages and MS have a 15 (or so) year advantage. I'm sure you can make something nice, maybe even something useful, but not something to rival Microsoft's dominance. Oh and it's not like this is the first web app to try this...
is raising VC money because it has "ajax" in the name.
Without rehashing everything that's been said so far abotu the comparison to MS Word, let's just say, it has a long, long way to go before it's gogin to put any serious dent in the MS Office revenu stream.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
I'm not sure that a full-fledged word processor "begs" to be an online app. Do I really want to risk having to have a net connection if I am going to get shit done?
I've been in hotels with crappy net connections. It's 4am, and I can't reach my word processor, now what?
Jim http://www.runfatboy.net/ -- Exercise, web 2.0 style.
Apparently it lets you save to your HDD, and I need to know how to do that for annother application. I'm checking it out now...
Yet the web has always been lacking in the interface. This application is an amazing glimpse of things to come.
Sorry dada, but you need to get out more.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
I just tried it and it crashed!
:-
:-
That's a great first start to compete with Word.
Now all we need is an animated paper clip which says
"You seem to be writing a letter, would you like to
a. Punch your monitor
b. Scream
c. Smile a crazy smile and run around the office, naked and screaming"
A slashdotting - you get the stick first and then the carrot !
When I learn a new language or technology, I like to start out with a couple of small well defined projects in which I can do the entire thing by hand - no fancy code generators or other IDE help, so I can understand truly what goes on underneath. I find it really helps. I've done it for C. I've written code using raw Xlib rather than toolkits when learning about X. I've written code using the Win32 API when learning about Windows.
Of course I decided to do the same with AJAX - use no fancy tools and code something small but useful completely by hand to understand what goes on. I wrote an application monitoring web app for our distributed app at work to give a nice graphical display and enquiries. It works well enough.
However, I could never shake the feeling that AJAX was what the RAF calls 'graunching' - forcing several components together that don't really fit properly. Writing a GUI in a web browser just felt awkward and wrong. Also, you had to be very careful how you did things especially if you have 30-odd info panels on your browser window - otherwise it's breathtakingly slow. Of course, an AJAX framework would have these (very necessary) optimisations - but AJAX really does seem incredibly inelegant.
Additionally, the X in AJAX doesn't really belong - if you run a protocol analyzer, you'll find XMLHTTPRequest doesn't actually send XML at all unless you explicitly send some XML. In fact it sends any plain text you pass it, and receives plain text back quite happily. But I suppose if it was called AJA it wouldn't be very buzzword compliant.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
What do you think the J in "AJAX" is for?
I knew I was dealing with Microsoft-quality software when I tried to open the screenshot in a new tab, only to be told off for not enabling Javascript, despite having it switched on. You'd think people building a word processor in Javascript would know better.
For all you newbie web developers out there - assuming that somebody who follows a link without executing the onclick handler has Javascript disabled is wrong.
In my case, I right-clicked and hit 't' to open in a new tab. This resulted in a page opening in a new tab telling me to enable Javascript. This is not what I wanted. Then I tried holding down Ctrl and clicking the link. This resulted in a new window with the screenshot in and a new tab telling me to enable Javascript. This is not what I wanted twice over.
When I finally got what I wanted (open a blank tab, open the history sidebar, select the address of the popup window), I realised something. There was absolutely no need whatsoever to have this pop up in a new window. It's one of those annoying firms that likes popping things up for no good reason. In my experience, organisations that do things like that have incredibly annoying websites run by PHBs who don't have a clue what they are doing. If the rest of their code is like that, consider me underwhelmed.
Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
Strange that we on Slashdot go gaga for anything AJAX while deriding Java as a slow, bloated pig. Seriously, AJAX is great for making web pages more responsive but is ill-suited as an applet replacement. Give me ThinkFree anytime.
Flame shields up...
In contrast, Java was not designed to do server-side code, and is making less sense in that application as platforms that offer better time-to-market for server-side development become accepted.
Bruce
Bruce Perens.
Why not just build a word processor into a Firefox extension if you're going to require it? Why not just write the word processor using Java and remove the requirement to be online at all?
Last time I checked, MSWord doesn't get Slashdotted.
Why Ajax isn't always appropriate:
Portability across platforms is great, but we'll still need a local copy. Which would seem to bring us back to XUL...
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
Service Temporarily Unavailable
maybe they need an animated can of Ajax holding a Service Temporarily Unavailable sign when the service goes down.
Also I'd like to say that BSOD reads and sound much better then STU
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
When I want to do word processing online, I use PBWiki on a private page. You have a complete history of changes made to the page available to download as backup versions, etc. And the wiki is available to you from any computer with an internet connection.
These are the only possible advantages I can see to word processing online, outside of cost benefit. I'd much rather use MS Word or Open Office for most tasks.
Where Writely. I tried it out and it's pretty good. As far as web based word processors go. Seems to have a lot of features that AjaxWrite is missing.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Some people don't like Michael Robertson, but I do. He's not your typical open source hero, but in a way he is one of the pioneers.
Free and Open Source software needs all kinds of people. Besides programmers you need documentation writers, artists, interface designers, lawyers, activists, and marketeers. Michael Robertson is good at marketing. He is good at promoting software solutions. He uses a lot of open source software for that, including some rebranded and extended applications.
Some people claims he steals and abuses that software, without giving back. I do not agree with that, his companies play by the rules and release source when necessary.
But sourcecode is not his important contribution, marketing is. Allthough you might not like his products, the bottomline is that he is promoting free/open software, and people are using it who might not have done so otherwise.
I clicked, and I promptly discovered the grand flaw of Web-based apps: If you want to do something NOW, and the server is swamped, you are SOL.
I'm still waiting for the AjaxBrowser. Then I can dump Internet Explorer, and do all of my browsing, like my word processing, online.
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
Microsoft Office Student and Teacher Edition 2003 costs about $125, and can be run on three different computers.
Microsoft stresses that this version of their Office 2003 is only for non-commercial use. You qualify for this edition so long as you are 1) a full- or part-time student enrolled in a K-12 institution, 2) home-schooled, 3) taking at least 6 credits at an accredited college/university, or 4) a full- or part-time faculty member and work 20+ hours at a school.
When I bought my copy, I had a child in Kindergarten. A year later, and he still hasn't used Office -- but my wife and I did.
Sorry for that advertisement for M$ products.
Oh yeah, I frequently use Open Office -- which is free, does a great job most of the time, and runs on almost everything.
Where law ends, tyranny begins -- William Pitt
I don't see this being a popular option in the home market. Business market, possibly.
My first thought was "Maybe for the home, but not my business." There's no way in hell I'm composing a proposal for a competitive contract on an open-source, web-based tool.
Maybe, when they release their version of Quicken, I can throw my finances up there, too.
And pdf sucks anyway.
PDF does not suck. PDF rocks! The diabolical combination of MS Windows (The OS that can't multitask its way out of a wet paper bag), Adobe Acrobat Reader (the bloated and glacially slow reader), and your favorite flavor of browser sucks. People click on a link in their browser then scream as their system grinds to a halt while the reader launches and the PDF downloads, which can take significant time. The the reader itself is slow due to trying to multitask with the browser. That sucks.
PDFs on Linux or OS X are much nicer, especially when viewed by a separate program instead of a browser plug-in and especially when not using anything from Adobe. It is sad that the people who pretty much invented the standard now have such a popular and horrendous implementation of it.
Is it just me or does Michael Robertson have a knack for WAY over hyping everything he does. Lindows/Linspire was supposed to change the Linux desktop world - and frankly Ubuntu has done a better job. SIPPhone doesn't seem to stand up to Skype. And Mp3.com got sold and redone by Cnet. Now this 'ajaxWrite' doesn't seem to be any different than the many other WYSIWYG editors available today.
I think Mr. Robertson should wait until his products/ideas are actually able to do what he says. But then again who does that anymore anyways?
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It looks like I can't write that term paper. I can't connect to my word processor.
Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at 207.67.194.7.
*The site could be temporarily unavailable or too busy. Try again in a few moments.
*If you are unable to load any pages, check your computer's network connection.
*If your computer or network is protected by a firewall or proxy, make sure that Firefox is permitted to access the Web.
Microsoft Word 1. AjaxWrite 0
Wish I had mod points...
Very true. These new AJAX 'applications' are basically reinventing Java applets using the (unreliable) DOM. Applets were always derided because of abuses by developers (remember the 'lake' applet? or the applet rollover menues?) and because it was too slow for computers at the time. Sun's battle with MS didn't help its adoption either. Plus the Java runtime client was ginormous, relative to a Flash plugin. Applets were eventually replaced by Javascript and Flash.
ThinkFree's Office is very impressive, btw.
They are going to get in trouble, those toolbar icons are copyrighted. I researched once when I thought about using them in my project and Microsoft is quite strict with the usage of them
I dont want my software as a 'service' (unless I'M providing the service).
I dont want to store my data on someone else's server.
I'd like a copy of the Gmail interface, that I could run on my own server, and access my privately stored email.
There was a recent article on Writely, which is apparently similar to this. I went to the site, hoping to download it, and put it on my server, but it too is a 'we store your files on our server' scenario. This might cut it for meaninless drivel teens want to exchange, but not for anything important.
I opened an incredibly simple openoffice document and it removed the indentation from all my paragraphs...indentation isn't an "obscure" feature.
All complaints about the 'functionality' of this 'web app' aside, that is one UGLY looking website.
The biggest problem with Java applets is that they seem difficult to modularize so that one gets JIT client-side loading. Usually bunches of classes have to be loaded on the client before anything happens, perhaps the entire app. It would be nice if it only loaded what was used. A form-based approach, for example, would only have to load forms that the user actually goes to instead of all *potential* forms.
Perhaps Java applets *can* be partitioned such a way, I don't know, but almost no writer seems to do it. They are all a big ball of all-or-nothing.
Table-ized A.I.
Strange that we on Slashdot go gaga for anything AJAX while deriding Java as a slow, bloated pig.
I calls 'em like I sees 'em.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Just after opening AjaxWrite, OS X crashed. This has *never* happened to me before. Does anyone else have OS X crash on them too when they tried out AjaxWrite?
Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
If Java had a fast, totally cross-platform and bug-free GUI toolkit, with full accessibility support for the visually impaired, and it was embedded into all web browsers, then I'd agree, in many ways Java applets would be superior. But the fact is that Java applets have none of those things. Great idea, no execution.
AJAX is at its best when it takes a concept that fits very well into the web paradigm, and adds desktop-application-like interactivity. Google Maps is a perfect example of this. Unlike a Java applet, you get a nice resizable window, almost instantaneous startup, and working back/forward buttons.
A desktop application like Word is a bad match for either a Java applet or an AJAX application.
It doesn't even work on IE 6. How is that cross platform?
I have used Foxit reader for PDFs for some time now. It's < 1MB in size and doesn't require an install (or at least didn't if you downloaded the zip). I have found it to be pretty good, loads so fast it's unbelievable. There is also a pro version which you can pay for which gives you some limited editing capability. Here is a link
He who defends everything, defends nothing. -- Fredrick The Great