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Help for an MMORPG Addict?
A worried comrade asks: "A friend of mine has had what many of us (his peers) are starting to consider a serious problem that we are becoming very worried about. He is addicted to World of Warcraft, and not in the same way the rest of us are. While most of us are able to disconnect from the game to take care of our own affairs, he plays to the exclusion of his friends, his job (he calls in sick a lot, it is starting to get noticed) and his life. How do you help someone who is actively throwing their whole life away to play a game?"
I was addicted to a MUD my freshman year of college. My parents were the ones who rescued me. And I do mean rescued. This is a heartbreaking situation. You cannot help those who are not willing to help themselves, and that is the first step: getting your friend to realize he needs to help himself. Next step: getting him to realize you can help him, too.
Think traditional addiction programs - interventions, counseling. Contact a drug addiction counselor or psychologist who specializes in addiction in your area; many of the techniques involved in breaking addiction are universal. Avoid AA-type pseudoreligious programs. They have been proven not to work (no flames, please, go google the study yourself).
Keep in mind that this is not an easy process. It took me two solid years to bring my social life back to where it once was; now, another four years later, I'm "addicted" to wow in that playfully, not clinically, addicted way. But stand by your friend. Understand that your friendship means less to him than the game does. Addiction is powerful, and ugly, and hard to understand and overcome. But he's got guys (girls maybe?) like you to help him. He's better off than many.
Good luck.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
You buy 'em a better video card, another stick of RAM, you order a pizza, and you say "yes" whenever he asks if you wanna go on a raid.
Or did you mean to help him do something else? :)
Seriously.
Get him a Girlfriend!
Ok... sorry, sorry... couldn't resist. =)
If I clone myself, can I call it a thread?
If a girl winks to us, can I call it a race condition?
Do *not* try to hook him up with a girl. Friends of friends tried this tact on an addicted co-worker and his failure to relate to the poor girl just drove him back to the game. My personal preference is to convince him to ask the game masters for a temporary ban. Then take care of him for the withdrawl period.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Don't just make them quit - find something to replace the MMORPG with. Doesn't have to be a girlfriend, doesn't have to be an offline game that you only play for an hour at a time, maybe it could be a previous hobby or forcing them out of the house every night to visit with friends. Just something that'll keep their mind off of the game.
He won't. Part of the addiction to a MMORPG is relating to your character(s), being your characters. The "real" life is so unimportant because your alter-ego in the game does the living for you, why would you need a "real" life out of the game when you already have such an interresting one inside of it?
Addicted people don't sell their chars, not their main characters anyway. Sold characters come either from chain-builders (who spend their times creating characters for them to sell), or by ex-addicts who suddenly realize how much they wasted in their characters and in the game and want some of it back.
And he probably knows the value of his character already, maybe with a margin of error under a dozen of cents.
"The way we can tell it's C# instead of Haskell is because it's nine lines instead of two." -- wadler
I also see people who are online in games constantly and I don't understand how anyone could possibly put up with the game for extended periods of time without taking any real breaks. (Going to the bathroom doesn't count.)
Whatever you do, do something. Don't just stand by and watch. MMORPG addiction can be every bit as destructive as other types of addiction, like alcoholism. Unfortunately, since it's "just a game" too many people turn a blind eye and believe that this merely anti-social behavior will work it self out. I know, because I've been there. I did the same things when EverQuest first hit the market... I played 60+ hours a week, and I often called in sick to work just to keep playing, which was how I lost my job. Luckily I wasn't married at the time, or I probably would have lost that too. In my case, it actually wasn't the MMORPG that was the problem though. Like any addiction, it was a method to fill a void in my life. I was suffering from depression due to some undesirable situations in my personal life, and I turned to the game as a substitute for real life. It became addicting because I had much more power over my life in the game than I did in my real life. You may want to make sure your friend is doing okay in other arenas; there may be a secondary reason why he spends so much time in the game.
step 1, like other posters have mentioned, is to get him to understand that he has a problem (ideally before he gets fired). this involves some sort of intervention. you'll want to plan it before hand for two reasons. firstly, you want to make sure that you've got the right mix of people talking to him; secondly, you as the interveners are going to need some practice. expect that you might get any reaction from "shit, you're right." to "you're just jealous" to overt hostility.
there are several tactics you can use to get your point across. if your friend doesn't let challenges go unanswered, challenge him to put himself in a situation where he can't play the game for a month or two. tell your friend how his addiction is affecting your relations with him (this is particularly relevant if his family or significant other is at the intervention). you need to be careful that when you do this, you're making "i" statements --- "i feel like _____ when you ditch me" rather than "you ditched me, jackass". you know your friend a lot better than i do, so you've got a better feel for what may or may not work well for him. while you're having the intervention, it's really important that you all make it clear that a) you're there for him, b) you're not judging him, c) you're going to help him pull through when he asks for your help, d) this is not something that will be discussed outside of the people in the room. your goal is to make the room a safe space (much easier said than done).
good luck -- you're about to go through a really rough patch.
Well my roommate is seriously addicted to World of Warcraft (I refuse to call it "WOW") He does had a girlfriend...which he justified his obsession by getting her addicted. My friend recommended whipping my genitalia out and pissing on something he loves. Not wanting a direct conflict, I obviously refrained from that course. After he caught some computer virus, he reformatted his hard drive. I happened to..."hide" his lovely installation CD's. To cope with the void...we play AA (America's Army) and frisbee golf. It's nice because both of those have some form of an end. Don't know if that was entirely helpful, but hiding things seems to help.
I know, it's harsh, cliche, and flamebait, but honestly, it worked for me.
I played Asheron's Vall obsessively for 4 years. I spent one entire summer doing nothing but. By the time I quit, I'd accumulated well over 6 months of online time. I dropped out of all my college classes... Two quarters in a row.
My parents did me a huge favor and kicked me out of their home on my 21st birthday. I found an appartment, got a job I enjoyed, and got engaged. Between the job and the fiance, I didn't have _time_ to play for months. By the time I had time again, I'd lost interest. I played about a total of 40 hours of WoW over the course of a month and a half this year, but rapidly got bored, and haven't logged in a single time in months.
Actually should work, anyone busy doing the first three will be incapable of playing any computer game, a week or two should be enough. Those online games are made to hook people and fill a void in their life, just fill that void with something else, drag them out, hit the nitespots, get friends and family to visit i.e. actively disrupt their gaming oppurtunities. of course being an introvert nethead my opinion my be worthless in this regard ;).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
The problem is not that the game is too fun or addicting, it's that RL isn't fun enough/meaningful enough/engaging enough.
MMOs provide an easy path, with clear rewards and punishments. RL doesn't usually provide any clear feedback on how you're doing in it.
Oh, and hallucinogens can be good for treating addiction.
-------
Incite and flee.
Do something, especially if you can think of something constructive that may help. But please, do NOT tie yourself into this so much that it takes you down as well. Many times I have seen people fighting addictions - drugs, alcohol, compulsive gambling, and yes religious cults and video games. I've also seen many cases where the people who care about the addict go through a hell almost as bad as the addict themselves, running on a combination of guilt and disappointment and a lot of other factors when the "treatments" don't work immediately or at all. Yes, he has a problem. Make sure it stays as HIS problem, and doesn't become your crusade.
I wish there was a choice that said "Factually Wrong -1" when I mod.
You forgot an important step in the death ritual: emailing all your gold to my character.
Finding God in a Dog
I was majorly addicted not just to mmorpg but to games as a whole. This period lasted for several years of my life during which I ignored my school responsibilities (I was in college). I also managed to lose a decent job at this time. Thankfully my girlfriend helped me. We started dating before the addiction started. During the addiction nothing mattered and finally she told me that if I didn't straighten up she was gone. I loved her enough that I managed to control my addiction and while I still play a good bit I still leave time for school, gf, friends, etc. I have also recovered in school and after this semester will be 12 hours from graduating with a dual major in both Finance and Economics.
It takes different things for different people. Lots of things were tried on me but the feelings I had for my girlfriend (now fiance we are getting married this summer) are what won the day for me.
if this friend lives in Canada i suggest investing in some marijuana, a backpack, a canoe, and outdoor cookware. if this friend lives in the States i suggest tequila, a couple friends, and a pickup truck.
Wait, wait, don't tell me .... back to the RPG?
Finding God in a Dog
YMMV
It is a simple question of economics. The person can spend 8 hours grinding levels for alts at World of Warcraft to get 2% better stats. Or they can spend 8 hours with their primary character grinding date quests, with a 20% chance of success and a 5% chance of critical hit.
At the end of a week, player 1 has just 15% higher stats. But player 2 has a pretty good chance of getting (or becoming) an ultra rare pet, with only a base level 18 requirement. Depending on which server and region you are in, group quests are also a possibility.
There can be complications with item drops, but anything you don't want can be sold at the auction house.
The ______ Agenda
Pulmonary thrombosis (aka pulmonary thrombo-embolism) is when you sit still for too long, blood settles in veins in your legs and starts to clot, and then after you get up, one or more of the clots breaks loose and gets stuck in your lungs.
Intensely painful, fairly dangerous, sometimes fatal.
Has nothing to do with the cortex or seizures.
Regards,
Ross
I've dealt with this myself. I started playing while I was working in order to pass the evening, and because some of the people in the office played. When layoffs hit, I (and several other players) were canned - lower productivity - we stood around and talked about where to get good loot. Spent 15 months unemployed, collecting insurance for being subject to layoffs, playing 14 hours a day. One day I stopped dreaming of people and only dreamed of avatars. I woke up, logged in, and gave away my account, cancelling the future payments. Then the depression hit, I was totally alone with nothing in my life. I'd lost touch with all of my friends, hadn't spoken to any of my family in 6 months. My insurance was running out and I'd be evicted if I didn't find a source of income. More than a year of my life had just gone. I eventually got evicted in my last month of the lease, coming home from a restaurant (alone) to find the locks changed. I'd managed to pack up one vehicle load of possessions before the rest was seized. I realize now that my friends had at first tried to invite me out, but I would decline more and more in favour of the raids, and eventually, I'd just decline and wouldn't even raid. They stopped calling after a while and it was my fault alone that I'd lost them. Sometimes I get the old feeling that I got when I was playing that game and shudder mildly at the thought of returning. Then it passes as I go give my girlfriend a hug and we go see a movie or something. Never again. This person needs help, and the worst thing you can do is stop trying.
It always irks me when I read about poor real life friends being abandoned in favour of an online game, but not for the reasons you might expect. See, I've abandoned plenty of real life "friends" and made friends online too, but although I met plenty of my online friends via various games (especially MUDs), the games were not the reason why my real life friendships began to suffer. If anything, it was because the people who I had previously hung out with just didn't click with me anymore, and playing a game was a way to distance myself from them. If any of them had attempted an "intervention," I would have been pretty damn pissed -- meeting me in real life does NOT give anyone the right to try and pry me away from my chosen form of entertainment. It's my life, and I get to choose who I want to be friends with and what I want to do in my spare time.
Incidentally, my life has never particularly suffered as a result of the small amount of game addiction that I have experienced. Maybe my marks would have been a bit higher (I usually get low to mid A's and high B's, with the odd A+ for flavour) if I'd spent less time gaming and more time doing homework, but realistically, if I hadn't been gaming or wasting time doing other hardcore nerd stuff, I would have been out dancing, getting drunk, and having random unprotected sex like the average university student -- not exactly my cup of tea.
Quite honestly, having a chance to play a game, interact with people all over the world, roleplay, and gank the hell out of a bunch of noobs is a LOT more important to me than getting laid or frying a bunch of brain cells, even though the latter activities might be more "normal" or even "healthy." If gaming makes me happy and sex/drinking doesn't, my former friends don't need to intervene... if they truly care, they need to let me be happy on my own terms.
There are certainly people who do need help breaking a game addiction, specifically the ones who are actually depressed by the prospect of losing aspects of their real lives, but the point I'm trying to make is that not all game addicts either want or need help. I'd rather let people be happy doing what they love than force them to take part in more socially-accepted activities that I know they're going to hate. Maybe they will lose their jobs, marriages, and friends, but if they're still happy, why does it matter? Isn't it better to be unemployed, alone and happy than rich, married, and depressed?
(Sorry for being so incoherent, but I hope you'll get the idea -- I'm at work, and I'm sleepy from skating during my lunch break and spending the rest of the day coding, so my brain isn't exactly working at full capacity.)
I really can't relate to your friend's problem. Why would anybody prioritize some stupid online hobby over real life??
On a more serious note, for the love of God, mod me up! I've been posting and posting trying to gain karma, and it's starting to effect my work ethic!!
if you think that drunk driving is the only way to hurt yourself or die with alcohol addiction.
You're also kidding yourself if you think the repetitive but spontaneous release of dopamine and endorphine isn't a chemical addiction. These games are designed to create that kind of response, and the symptoms of withdrawal show up in these cases on a very regular basis.
One week with the NGE is enough to drive even the most hardcore MMO player to quit for good....
...just let the Sirens kick you out.
My friend had a better approach than deleting his stuff. He download a out-of-date version of WOWglider (a blatant hack), knowing that blizzards hack detection system would catch it immediately, and left it running overnight. Came back in the morning to find his account permanantly banned by blizzard.
Why strap yourself to the pole when you can get the
Having been an addict level Everquest player twice, who eventually lost interest twice when I realized it was taking me away from other things I enjoy in life, I have one point to make..
Especially now that most MMORPG'ing is accompanied by Teamspeak etc, chances are your friend has quite good friends in the game, that he chats with, spends a lot of time with (more time probably than with any real life friend). Don't short the importance of these friendships, if he were to stop playing the game, he might feel like he was betraying friends, or walking away from people who counted on him. I know I definitely felt like that, possibly because I played an enchanter, and the guilds I was in often couldn't run certain raids unless I was on.
If you're going to get him to quit the game, you have to make sure he feels like he's not walking out on the people he's spent literally weeks or months of his time interacting with. I know I still keep in touch with a fair number of my EQ friends, and have since met several of them IRL and turned game friendships into more tangible ones. Giving him support in that process, not belittling the time he spends with his online friends, and making sure he doesn't feel like he's leaving them in a lurch is probably the most important support you can give him.
You're right that destroying your account doesnt prevent a new one, but it so throughly and irrevocably destroys your progress that is presents a very serious obstacle to resuming play, wheras your drinking example doesnt. If you burn all my booze, i can go buy more thats exactly the same. If you destroy my 60 priest with Tier 2 epics, thats months and months setback that i cant buy. ...except on ebay, i guess. For a #$%^ton of money.
So yeah, its not perfect, but its a hell of a big obstacle. Worked for my friend, anyway.
Playing WOW costs money. I don't know if there is a fee to actually /play/ WOW, but certainly you have to have pay to have a place to stay, pay for electricity, and pay for internet access.
If WOW becomes a problem so that you lose your job, and income, eventually you will lose the means to play WOW. Self-solving problem.
Harsh way to solve an addiction, but in the end, it will solve itself. Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before you can start back up.
Steve
A work that expires before its copyright never enters the public domain and thus enjoys eternal copyright protection.
You can beat this. Stop playing. Get a WizBan, or something similar, for at *least* a month. So you have no way to get back on, cuz you're going to try. Then, get out of your house. Distractions abound outside your computer room.
If you have the option, and you have to use a computer, get a low-powered one that can't play the game. If yer a MUD addict, then get rid of your client. You'd be surprised how much more tedious playing MUDs can be without a client. If that still doesn't work, maybe an abacus is more your speed for the time being...
When I say get out of your house, I don't mean exercise, or any of that crap, (unless you wanna, then go for it), but just leave your house. Go hang out with friends. They should be supportive. Go to the bar, take in a movie, whatever, but leave the computer alone, entirely. You need to find new distractions to replace the game, and no single distraction will do the job, if it did, you'd just be transferring your addiction onto another, possibly worse, activity.
When I played EQ, my hard and fast rule was simple. I played the game, ruthlessly, for dozens of hours at a time. But, if someone called, or came over, or just generally wanted to do something, I quit the group, or raid, or whatever and went out. No ifs ands or buts. If there was *anything* else to do (involving contact with other humans), the game got shut off. I suggest the same rule for anyone who is worried that they are heading down the ol' addiction road. Sometimes I'd just go out with friends, just to talk about EQ for 5 or 6 hours. But we weren't playing the game, and we were out of the house.
You play the game because it relieves boredom. Get bored again, and you'll figure out things to do.
http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-effectiveness
http://www.baldwinresearch.com/alcoholism.cfm
That took me a total of 1 minute to find. Top 3 results on google for ["alcoholic anonymous" success rate]. You are absolutely right. And all of the legitimate ones support the conclusion that AA does not work. And its even more stupid and dangerous to make health care or mental health decisions on the basis of no studies whatsoever (which is exactly what is done everyday with AA). If you are going to bash someone for not citing research, then bash yourself. At least the previous poster did research before posting (whether he cited it or not). All three pages have extremely convincing evidence that AA does not work.
Ah, I never get enough of the drug-scare where anything that's a chemical -- even normal brain mediators -- is suddenly scary and to be avoided.
Get this: dopamine is just a non-specific "I'm happy" signal in your brain. No more, no less. It's not some dope hit as a reward, or whatever bullshit you may have heard from ignorant scare mongers. It's _the_ natural "I'm happy" signal that the brain uses. (Some drugs immitate its effects, yes, which is why they also make one happy. But that's the correct relationship: drugs are a substitute for the brain's normal chemicals, not the other way around.)
It's also non-specific. It doesn't fire just for MMOs, it fires every time you're glad about something. When the village gossip-monger found a good listener, or when the amateur photograph finds a cool thing to photograph, or when the Slashdot karma-whore sees that he's been moderated +5 Insightful... guess what? The exact same kind of dopamine response is involved. And not just in humans. When your cat is glad that she found a nice comfy place to sleep in, or when your dog is glad that the pack leader (i.e., you) gives him attention, yep, it's dopamine again.
And yes, you're sorta pre-addicted to it from even before you were born. Everyone seeks to do the things they find pleasant, as opposed to the things they dislike. And yes, the dopamine levels immediately start to decay so you'll have to find the next fun thing to do, instead of being happy for your whole life that you once played a game. Go figure.
Natural selection used that kind of stimulus to keep one doing the "good" things, as opposed to randomly doing dumb things. E.g., wolves have to feel glad about getting back near the pack, so they don't get spread.
So the only way to not feed that scary dopamine addiction would be to avoid having any fun in your life.
There is no such thing as being "addicted to MMOs" strictly, as is the case with other drugs. When you're addicted to, say, Alcohol or cigarettes, there is only one substance that can satisfy the addiction. In the "dopamine addiction" anything fun will work just as well.
Again, it's just that humans (and all other animals) are pre-"addicted" to doing fun stuff, and to avoid non-fun stuff. _Any_ fun stuff will do. Sure, some get in a rut about how they get their fun, but then non-gamers find their own ruts too. (E.g., the village gossip-monger can get stuck on looking for the next listener, or the Slashdot karma whore can get stuck on refreshing the page.) But from the dopamine point of view, _anything_ fun will trigger it just the same anyway. That's all.
And saying that "These games are designed to create that kind of response" is just a pretentious way of saying: games are designed to be fun. That's all.
It's not just computer games, and it's not just humans. Most animals have their own games, tailored around what natural selection pre-programmed them to find fun.
E.g., cats are predators, so the natural selection advantage was to be pre-programmed along the lines of "go chase something that moves and, if needed, fight it." So that's what they get, surprise, a dopamine hit for. So they have their own games where they wrestle each other. (When it looks like your cats are beating the living snot out of each other, chances are good that that's their idea of a game, not actual fighting.) Or everyone has played with their cat by making her chase something, be it a piece of paper on a string or a spot of light or whatever. Yep, that's dopamine for your cat. Somewhere in her feline brain there'll be a "yay, I chased it and caught it! I'm happy!" response, which means dopamine.
E.g., rabbits are prey and their fun stuff is along the lines of "yay, I successfully ran away from some menace". So if you observe them, you'll see that they actually play games along those lines. They actually chase each other, effectively playing the role of a "menace" for each other.
Etc.
So, yes, humans are pre-addicted to fun (_all_ humans, including non-gamers), and games are designed to be great fun. It doesn't sound as pretentious and pseudo-scientiffic as the "addiction to dopamine" bullshit, but that's really all there is to it. Big whopping surprise there.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Well, it may sound crazy, but the most effective method I've come across for dealing with addiction is to remove the person from it. Talk to the guy, convince him that you need to take a trip to somewhere that his vice is not available. If you both have passports, I recommend a trip to somewhere that is less likely to have computers that can play WoW. As a good example, I would recommend either the Virgin Islands or maybe the Greek island of Samos. If you're American without a passport, then a trip to the Keys in south Florida is pretty good. The goal is to get him away from easily addictive things. For example, if you were to go to Amsterdam and sit at the coffee shops and enjoy the hash, it's counter productive. Hash itself is believed to be not addictive, but the environment and lifestyle of using it is addictive. Drinking girly drinks with little unbrellas in it in a tropic island is relaxing, not so addictive. Often with game addictions the player just needs to experience life without the game to see that it really isn't so bad. Alternatively, you can be a mean assed bastard, take taser gun and hit the telephone wires on the side of his house with it. (Hit the cable wire if he's using cable modem). It should do enough damage that he won't be able to access the net without the cable installation guy coming out and fixing it. Of course, the less destructive method would be just to take a minitorch and a shit load of solder and make the biggest solder ball you've ever seen on top of the connections, shorting it out. Lots of 2 part epoxy on top of that adds a nice effect. I personally prefer the taser approach just because it's really fun to listen to a person screaming their head off yelling "FFS" and such when their cablemodem/adsl modem goes up in smoke.
That aside, long as the guy eats, does his laundry etc why can't he sit on his ass playing his MMO 8+ hours every day?
Many have pointed out it's not the addiction to the game, it's how fucking boring real life can be. How tedious and monotonous it can be to get up every morning at the fucking crack of dawn before the sun is even up, to go to work where you'd more than likely be charged with doing some menial task. Often constricted with many rules such as no personal phone calls (you'll see what I mean in a moment) or radio or anything to take your mind off how fucking boring it is to slave away at whatever you are doing. And this is even assuming you have a nice deskjob. Think about the poor bastards doing the manual labor.
So you do your job for 8 hours every day, usually 5 maybe 6 days a week, year round. With no obligations to a personal family or children you are bound only to yourself. Why can't the guy sit at home and play his MMO? Sure, in some similarities, WoW (or other games) can be just as tedious as a real job. But in an MMO, you can chat with friends without being scolded by an employer, you can use any program you want such as Winamp or a voice comm to talk to people. Then there's the actual fun in the game, the tradeskilling/farming aside, I'm sure they find their real fun doing the PvP or end game PvE stuff with guildmates and friends to be the bread & butter of the game.
Let him play. Long as guy understands he needs to go to work, pay his bills, get a decent amount of sleep each day/night then he's good to go. Don't force him to "go out with friends" in real life. Ever consider some of us don't like fucking going out? I personally can't stand bars or bar hopping, or clubs etc And around here thats all there is for people in their mid 20's to do. Sure a girlfriend could benefit him but don't try to force him into something, thats something he and only he will choose to do at some point if he ever does.
Aw Frell this
Having addressed what dopamine really is, let's move on to the actual topic of addiction.
If someone ends up retreating into a game, or into any other kind of compulsively seeking one kind of fun instead of dealing with RL, blaming it on the dopamine is addressing the symptom instead of the cause. The real cause there is the sharp contrast in how much fun that is in contrast to their RL problems. The real problem there is that basically they find that the rest of their life sucks and doesn't give them much reason for joy.
Even if you want to stick to the "dopamine addiction" pseudo-scientific explanation to the bitter end, the fact still remains: you won't get someone stuck on games who gets plenty of dopamine in their life otherwise. You won't get someone to call in sick to play MMO if they find their job interesting and fun.
E.g., I remember days back in university when I had real fun, and months of it, coding new and interesting stuff, and believe me, no game could have pulled me away from that. In fact, it was in my free time, instead of games. There was a challenge, there was the discovering new stuff, and there was the reward or achievement, i.e., much the same elements that make games fun. (And thus trigger the dopamine response.) Some of it was "multiplayer" too, involving competition or bragging rights among fellow students and members of a local wannabe-"hacker" group. (Bearing in mind that "hacker" still mostly meant talent and hard-work, rather than "cracker" or "script-kiddie", or at least for some people.) Being the only student whose parser for a term assignment was a full BASIC-like language _including_ an IDE and debugger (yeah, I was that much of an over-achiever) was more reward and bragging rights than any game could possibly offer. I even skipped a boring christmas party to work on that IDE.
Basically you won't see any game, and least of all a MMO, pulling someone from a fun job like that.
On the other hand, it's easy to seek refuge somewhere else (be it games, karma-whoring on slashdot, whatever) if your job sucks more ass than the vaccuum toilets on the space shuttle, your "friends" are boring and in fact not much more than "acquaintances", your girlfriend is a pain in the ass, the neighbours are nosy gits that only get suddenly friendly when they need you to clean their computer of spyware, etc.
I.e., to have that kind of a sharp contrast you need _two_ halves. No matter how much fun games may be, the alternatives still need to be a lot less fun to create that kind of clear-cut avoidance response.
In which case seeking refuge in a game (or in anything else) is really just the lowest resistance path. It's easier to just jump into the one activity that's fun, than to deal with what makes the rest of your life non-fun. E.g., it's easier to just day-dream from 9 to 5 through a crap job, and then jump into WoW, than quit and find a better job. It's easier to put Azeroth as a separation layer between you and your friends, even if you're in the same guild, than to find yourself real friends you have some common topics with.
And IMHO any kind of "cure" should address that underlying topic, rather than the symptom. Depriving someone of their sole source of fun, no matter how you may rationalize it as protecting them from some bullshit dopamine addiction, isn't solving their problems, it's just pushing them towards depression if nothing else fills that void. As long as they don't start dealing with their RL problems, being stuck with them 24h a day isn't an improvement in any form or shape.
I.e., basically the way is to help them find dopamine somewhere else, rather than protect them from it. Because again, the only way you could possibly keep someone dopamine-free is making sure they never have any joy in their life.
Which, come to think of it, seems to be the goal of some of the busibodies and moralistic groups.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
The solution for this is simple. I had a friend of mine who was addicted to EQ (I was too) -- As I realized what an incredible timesink this was, I planned on quit playing. I knew my friend never would, however. What I did may be considered "evil" by some. Here is the story: Me and a friend both had level 60 characters on EQ. We always played together - officers in the same guild, we raided and quested together (and played alts together). I knew that when I quit, he never would. I had a girlfriend, and more interest in going to do stuff in the real world. My friend had no interest in anything at all except EQ. Here is what I did. 1. I installed a physical keylogging device on his keyboard at his house. 2. I got his EQ password. 3. I deleted all his characters. He called me up the next day and said all his characters were deleted. I feigned suprise: "No kidding? Wow. Well, I was thinking about quitting anyway." He responded with: "Don't quit man -- I'll get my characters back!" So I said ok. He spent about 3 days with the Verant tech support getting his characters reinstated. He changed his passwords and virus scanned his box (I think he even formatted it). He got his characters back, called me up, and we started playing again. (A side note: those three days he was more social than in the last 6 months) I felt bad, but I did it again. I had his new password (it was like 32 chars long, heh). I deleted all of his characters again. He called me up and said it happened again. I felt bad. I knew he was hurt. I knew it would help him, in the long run. What followed was a month of the same thing happening. Verant got pissed off because they thought he was messing with them. He got pissed off because he know he didn't delete his characters. In this time where he could not play, I decided to quit completely. He said it was his fault, that his account was messed up, but I said it was probably for the best anyway. Over this month we spent a lot of time out, went on a weekend hiking trip, ate dinner out, etc. He finally gave up his quest to play EQ again. I told him it was fate or something. To this day, he doesn't know it's me. We've drifted apart since then (We were stationed in the same place in the military) -- I'm sure he's playing WOW or whatever else now, but I am happy that I helped him at least a little bit. Maybe I'll call him someday and tell him the truth... ;)
I was addicted to Ultima Online for a 6 month period starting a couple weeks after it was released. For that period of time, I would spend a minimum of 8 hours a day playing the game. The rest of my waking hours were spent thinking and scheming about the game, and most of my time at work I spent reading and contributing to various UO related websites. I wouldn't even say it was a positive experience, with all the grief and the lag and the server crashes, I found myself frustrated 24/7. Well, maybe 20/7, since I did sleep a LITTLE bit.
And one day, I just decided to quit. I've been unable to find it, but I was writing an article somewhere about the life of a UO player and by the time I had finished it I realized what a mess my life had become as a result of that game and decided to end it. I quit and didn't look back. It seemed to be an addiction, but not a dependancy. I didn't miss it once I'd quit, but I don't think it was something I could have handled in moderation, and for that reason I refuse to touch any MMORPGS no matter how much fun someone tells me one might be.
Ultimately, the decision was entirely mine, and certainly not suggested or motivated by anyone else. In fact, most of my friends at the time played the game and tried to discourage me from quitting. I really wouldn't know how to get someone else to quit, other than to find an activity that is enjoyable enough that it draws them away from the game, but you have to get them away from the game in both body and mind long enough for a competing interest to take hold. It's quite possible he realizes there's a problem and is just unsure about how to deal with it. You might have a tough sell recommending quitting, but it can be done.
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
Maybe they will lose their jobs, marriages, and friends, but if they're still happy, why does it matter? Isn't it better to be unemployed, alone and happy than rich, married, and depressed?
It matters because that contentment is temporary. Ten years later, when they've failed out of college and can't get anything other than a dead end job due to no qualifications and a string of firings due to not showing up at work, their future is going to look incredibly miserable. I have little sympathy for people who ruined their lives by having only looked at their immediate happiness instead of their long-term happiness and success.
Money won't make you happy, but poverty will make you miserable. People who can be happy while alone and penniless are rare in this world, and they're never people who are so wrapped up in some material trapping (like a game or booze or drugs) that they can't function in the real world.
Interventions always make the people involved angry and upset, but it's worth it to keep someone you care about from ruining their lives.
Quite honestly, having a chance to play a game, interact with people all over the world, roleplay, and gank the hell out of a bunch of noobs is a LOT more important to me...
I already didn't like you for suggesting that people be left to rot for their short-term happiness, but you're also a griefer who gets off on making the game miserable for new players too? What a prick.
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
Take hammer. Smash his display device. Engage in discussion of why.
If smashing device does not yield any response (ie: subject continues to play game, perhaps by closing eyes and "visualizing" himself as his character), hit his head with same hammer. Take care to not do as much damage as you did to the display device. Then engage in physical discussion of why.
At least he'll be involved in a real struggle.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
My history is something like this: enter university, do great. Find out about MUDs. Stop studying. Mistake: lie to parents about study results. Play MUD for three years, while the RL problems and the lies pile up. Stop playing. Finally confess to parents a year later. Spend next three years in a bad depression. Find a good psychologist. Spend next three years rebuilding some self confidence. Eventually, actually find a job and actually finish study. End result: 10 years mostly lost to MUD.
Could anyone have helped, early on? No way, I ignored those people. Besides, all my friends played too, and we were having tremendous fun (really! and it's where I learned how to code well). When not thinking about real life, and the pile of two years worth of mail I didn't dare to open.
If he's like me, he's feeling guilty about missing work and escaping from the guilt by playing more WoW. It's a death spiral. Almost everybody eventually gets out, but it can take years.
But, there is still hope. Are you people (his RL friends) also friends with him in game, ie on Teamspeak together? Then step 1 is to stop playing. All of you. He won't stop to visit you and see you playing; nor can you send him back to a RL where his friends aren't available much because they're playing a game he can't play. And if you don't quit, you'll just be talking about the game when he's around... So stop playing yourself, first. It's only a game to you, right? So that shouldn't be a problem.
Second, be very blunt to him. He needs to quit. At this point, he may choose to ignore you and avoid you from here on. If so, it's out of your hands.
Third, give him a good alternative - fun in real life. I prefer getting board games, booze and a bunch of people around a table regularly. Some girls too (mostly to improve the atmosphere, mixed company is more fun). Or do some outdoors stuff, or whatever... I volunteered for a student bar. Just make it seem worthwhile for him to give up his in game social relations.
And hey, at least it's not heroin. It's slightly cheaper and usually doesn't leave him dead at the end of the ride. It could be worse...
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
First off, if it impacts his physical health, then make him aware of that. Don't beat a dead horse, though. If he is healthy (like any geek really is, asthma, algeries etc) then let it alone for a while. Your concern for a friend is noble as all hell, but in the end, it's his choice. I have lost friends to all kinds of addictions--alcohol, drugs, gambling, sex/porn. Some made a comeback and came around and didn't let it win. Others are still on the path to destruction and can't stop. It will suck if they die, but who am I to dictate the quality of life to another? In the end people are always evolving, growing, or not... but I have found that friendships have a time and a place, in some cases time runs out... In the end you are a good person for caring.
Also, IMHO, no one should get any points for replying to this topic. I came with nothing, and will be happy to leave with it.
Sig Hansen?
I don't waste my time trolling through hundreds or even thousands of replies, especially dumb ones that seem to prevail, but here is a good link for On-line Gamers Anonymous if no one has posted it yet. I hope it helps!
http://www.olganon.org/
Some of these comments are making me sick! I can't begin to comprehend how someone can rationally justify a game becoming a core part of someones life.
A video game is a pastime or even simply entertainment. Neither of these validate the compulsion, the addiction.
Sure, your not addicted. Then try stopping for a few weeks. What's that, you can but you don't want to? Do it anyways. If you can't, your an addict, plain and simple.
Now the other aspect of socializing is part of human nature. I'll admit though, I'm personally very anti-social. But I try my best and press on. I was bed ridden for weeks because of panic and anxiety disorder, so I do know completely the pain of social situations. Sure, I still have problems, but the difference between my problems and yours? I admit they exist and I make people aware of them. When friends around me know about my problems, they're much more willing to help me battle my demons.
The sad thing is, the ball is already in your court. Many of you have friends and family already noticing things and are willing to help. It takes a strong person to accept that help.
I've seen friends have to give up on loved ones because of gaming addictions. A close friend right now is battling with his wifes addiction to WoW...
Needless to say, when the port was turned back on, the Evercrack addictions came back in full force.
Personally, from seeing where the Evercrack addicts ended up after they quit, I think the addiction is really a symptom of problems that only trained medical professionals can help.
Perhaps the best thing you can do for your friend is guide him to a professional. (And accidentally cut his cable connection an hour before each appointment!)
No, I will not work for your startup
I was addicted to WoW a few months ago and here's how I quit. I was picking up a few things at a store when I walked past Quake 4. Having played Quake1 religiously and enjoyed Quake3 casually, I picked Quake 4 up. One night when I was unable to log into WoW I fired up Quake 4 multiplayer. The next thing I knew it was last and I had to walk my dog before going to bed. Getting out of my computer chair I felt like fire was pumping through my veins. When I got outside I found myself running and jumping around like a wild man. For once I was actually able to keep up with my dog. Then I realized what had happened. Normally at this time I'd be finishing a very long WoW raid. My back and legs would ache and I'd feel tired. I realized the truth - WoW is boring as hell. I'd normally spend hours and hours in WoW, most of it waiting for something to happen. Waiting for the raid to fight the next group of mobs. Waiting for people to reconnect. Waiting for people to get back from being AFK. Waiting for my flight to land. Waiting for the zepplin to pick me up. Waiting for my horse to get somewhere. Waiting for a game of battlegrounds to start. In Quake 4 I wasn't waiting for anything. I didn't have time to wait for anything. It was...FUN!
I've been waiting to tell this story and this seems to be an appropriate venue.
I'm friends with a married couple. I'll call them Jack and Jill because one of them reads slashdot and I don't want to give the secret away.
Jack is a WoW addict. He works part time, plays 50+ hours per week. Is a member of a raiding guild and is always coveting that next purple, orange or whatever colored item.
Jill, his wife, is frustrated over his addiction. She bought an account just so she could spend a little more time with him. She leveled a character to 60 and occasionally raids but she enjoys RL more than the game and so resents having to play the game in order to spend time with her husband.
This is the part I thought was pretty cool.
Jill is the techie of the household and uses a linux based router/firewall/webserver/etc for local networking. As Jacks addiction grew worse she started checking out the ports used by WoW. Inititally she just started monitoring them in order to find out how much time he actually plays but later she realized she could throttle the connection (introduce lag) or block it completely (gee, the WoW servers are down again). The result is that when Jack has been playing WoW all day and Jill wants to go to dinner she either severely throttles the connection or cuts it completely. Jack thinks the blizzard servers are fscked up, wastes some time trying to log in and eventually gives up and joins Jill for dinner. Now Jill gets to occasionally go to dinner with Jack, to the movies, to a party. I kind of like it because I'm good friends with Jack and I get to see him occasionally now and then.
I'm not blind to the deception of this act. Yes it's kind of creepy, but so is not showering, playing wow for 20 hours straight with quick toilet breaks. While it doesn't get rid of the root problem of the addiction, it has prevented jack from completely losing all RL socialization.