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UK Government Passes ID Card Bill
cowbutt writes "The two houses of the UK government, the elected House of Commons and the House of Lords have agreed a compromise on Labour's ID cards bill, after Conservative peers accepted a Labour amendment. Under the new amendment, anyone renewing a designated document (e.g. passport) will be able to opt-out of getting a card until 2010, but will still have their details put on the National ID Register immediately."
Get stuffed number 6.
Great Britain, meet Totalitarian State.
The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
How, exactly, is any of that supposed to help against crime / terrorism / illegal immigration / whatever?
This is going to cost the government some money. That money comes from taxes and fees. What is the British citizen getting for that expense?
I am who I am, I have my eyes, face, fingerprints, voice, etc etc etc. If my details are kept on record somewhere, WHY the HELL do I need carry ID card? It defeats the whole point of any such system.
Grrrrrrr
Britons never, never, never will be slaves!
Except to their own government!
You get waht you pay (or vote) for.
Born on a mountain, Raised in a cave!
Living in Northern Ireland, with dual nationality I'll be going for an Irish passport, instead of a British one. If a British Driving license is a "designated document", I might just have to shenanigan enough to be able to get an Irish Driving license too, come renewal time.
"Never 'clear the air'. Instead, investigate all the subtle nuances of the word 'fester'." - R. Candappa
But do the cards have RFID? I believe they will but can't find anything to confirm it.
spoonerize "magic trackpad"
We are no longer free.
At least I get to vote against labour from here on in.
rgds
When I'm at the airport, I want to have the following T-shirt:
FRONT TEXT: I'm carrying a picture of myself.
BACK TEXT: Do you feel safer yet?
"Proper" ID (that is, rigorously checked, hard to fake, and accurate), for all of the good civil liberty arguments against it, might actually prevent certain types of crime. Them's the breaks.
Would it deter people who don't mind dying in order to obtain a religo-political goal? Well, it didn't deter the September 11 hijackers, at least not all of them.
The only way to travel free of possible terrorism is if everyone agrees to be schlepped around nude, drugged, and packed in Jello. Including the terrorists.
timothy
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I can't believe they got it that far. However, it's not going to have any lasting effect, it's just another document to fill in. Life's full of those anyway.
I won't have to worry about this until after 2015, when my passport runs out. They have my DNA though, so I guess I'm already part of the system.
followed by BushCo: 1-800-ALQ-AEDA.
Cheers,
K. Trout, M.C.
P.S. Be Patriotic: Deport The White House
More than you know. The only reason for biometric being tied to passports is the U.S. government's demands for that data. Not only will the UK government collect this data, they will hand it over to their U.S. puppet masters.
What data will ID cards store?
Fears have been raised by opponents of identity cards about the amount of information which could be stored on the database. Here is the full list of the 49 types of information which the Identity Cards Bill says should be on the register.
Personal information
* full name
* other names by which person is or has been known
* date of birth
* place of birth
* gender
* address of principal place of residence in the United Kingdom
* the address of every other place in the United Kingdom where person has a place of residence.
Identifying information
* a photograph of head and shoulders
* signature
* fingerprints
* other biometric information
Residential status
* nationality
* entitlement to remain in the United Kingdom where that entitlement derives from a grant of leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom, the terms and conditions of that leave
Personal reference numbers
* National Identity Registration Number
* the number of any ID card issued
* allocated national insurance number
* the number of any relevant immigration document
* the number of their United Kingdom passport
* the number of any passport issued to the individual by or on behalf of the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom or by or on behalf of an international organisation
* the number of any document that can be used by them (in some or all circumstances) instead of a passport;
* the number of any identity card issued to him/her by the authorities of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom
* any reference number allocated to him/her by the secretary of state in connection with an application made by him for permission to enter or to remain in the United Kingdom
* the number of any work permit relating to him/her;
* any driver number given to him/her by a driving licence;
* the number of any designated document which is held by him/her and is a document the number of which does not fall within any of the preceding sub-paragraphs
* the date of expiry or period of validity of a document the number of which is recorded by virtue of this paragraph.
Record history
* information falling within the preceding paragraphs that has previously been recorded about him/her in the Register
* particulars of changes affecting that information and of changes made to his/her entry in the Register
* date of death.
Registration and ID card history
* the date of every application for registration made by him/her
* the date of every application by him/her for a modification of the contents of his entry
* the date of every application by him/her confirming the contents of his entry (with or without changes)
* the reason for any omission from the information recorded in his/her entry
* particulars (in addition to its number) of every ID card issued to him/her
* whether each such card is in force and, if not, why not
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I pray that there is a major change in the order of Congress this election year, or this kind of thing may not be far behind here in America.
Yes, we'll still have Bush, but if we can a Democrat majority in Congress, especially a democrat majority with a fucking spine, Bush and them will spend the next two years fighting until we can hopefully replace all of them in '08 and start the long path of recovery...
You know it's bad when pleas like this are coming from a Republican.
To fight terrorism effectively, what the UK needs is mandatory RFID implants in all existing residents and newborn babies, where the RFID chip sends back a key into a central database containing fingerprints, nuclear and mitochondrial DNA sequences, 3-D facial image and iris scans. RFID scanners monitoring movements of all people would need to be installed on every street, in every shop, home and workplace.
Next, mandatory RFID chips in all banknotes, and a law that cash cannot be handed from one person to another without registering the transfer (which can be done conveniently at government-installed ATM-like or EFTPOS-like machines on every street and in every shop) which scan the cash and the ID cards of giver and receiver and register the transfer.
Yep, that'll stop the terrorists. Sure.
-- In the beginning was the WORD, and the WORD was UNSIGNED, and the main(){} was without form and void...
Queue the inevatible post about how, 'if you have nothing to hide, you should just ...' and ignore any dissent about how this won't catch terrorists, etc, but just enables Big Brother. Also insinuate that anyone opposing this is paranoid, a terrorist, etc as well.
Papers please.
(Not to be confused with the East German version)
Shh.
People keep suggesting; abolish the house of lords or make it entirely elected, the problem being when you've got a large majority (much reduced now) parliament like new labour they would be able to get anything through without much deliberation.
The house of lords acts as a buffer and even though use of the parliament act is always available, enough media noise is usually generated to alert the public on controversial bills.
In this case they have only managed to compromise and delay the inevitable.
Thanks Tony, your long lasting legacy will certainly be felt for decades to come, as noone ever restores civil liberties or removes draconian legislation (or emergency legislation as they like to call it) unless theres a definative sunset clause.
Oh and I nearly forgot; Thanks Osama.
i honestly couldn't give less of a toss about it if i tried. i'm mildly irate that there's still talk of them charging us for the pleasure of these little bits of plastic (yet another item to lose, i'm guessing), but it's not really going to change my life. if, of course, they start to integrate other things into them, such as driving license, bank details, tax details and so forth, thus making them into a multiple-purpose item, then that'd be... useful, at most. it's not enough to make me reach for the tinfoil hat yet. i live in a borough of london that is one of the most highly supervised (by cctv), and i don't really care about it, either. everyone's getting so worked up about this 'big brother state', but what are you *honestly* doing that's gonna cause any serious concern/suspicion on the part of the ruling authorities? you torrent music? you pirate software? so what. you're not the source of these issues, and people will continue to find a way of doing these things. as far as i'm concerned, this could be used as a brilliant way of tracking the motions/actions/interactions of *real* criminals, and making sure that their illicit deeds don't continue to be a factor in their daily lives. as such, institute the cards. see if i care. they can track me all they like. it's not gonna change me on any fundamental level.
http://xkcd.com/313/
So I have to pay £90 for one of these things next time my passport runs out? And not forgetting the family, for what exactly? I have a new style driving licence with the photo of me on it, just like the Euro one, the only difference is that if I need to use the licence as ID I have to bring the paper part WITHOUT my photo. So, my driving licence isn't good enough ID, my passport isn't good enough (so why do the US accept it) and I have to have a new form of ID; which I have to pay for. I for one hope that I will be working on a gov. contract when my passport expires and I have to have a new passport (and so ID card) and I can flat refuse until somebody else parts with their hard earned cash. An absolute waste of time and money. And while I am at it, £90 covers the setup, design, production and other admin/gov costs - I am almost sure they will be simple to copy...
Thanks God. Have less card to carry. Too many cards in my life, too many trouble for me already!
Megite: What's Happening Right Now
>
>Yes, we'll still have Bush, but if we can a Democrat majority in Congress, especially a democrat majority with a fucking spine, Bush and them will spend the next two years fighting until we can hopefully replace all of them in '08 and start the long path of recovery...
Pop Quiz: On January 20, 2009, the leader of Democratic wing of the party, having retaken the House and Senate in '06, and the Presidency in 2008, will take a look at the powers available to it, and say:
a) "Look at all this power we just had dropped into our laps! Just in case we're ever tempted to use it, we'd better pass laws to prevent us from using it."
b) "Thank you very much, Republicans! It's just what we always wanted. Let us know what additional powers you'd like in place for 2016 when it's your turn."
It doesn't matter whether you work for the Democratic wing or the Republican wing. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake.
"V for Vendetta" is making millions at the box office, what a cute little coincidence.
Ex nihilo nihil fit.
Here's a Guardian link with every article and editorial they have on the issue. Lots of good stuff here.
t ml
http://www.guardian.co.uk/idcards/0,,1373591,00.h
Since your UID is smaller than mine, I can only conclude that you're trolling. -s20451 (410424)
I have come to the view - and I'm quite serious - that EVERY piece of legislation which is passed "in the public good" does the exact opposite.
It harms the public good, but greatly benefits a very small number of individuals.
vote out the incumbants and any grey haired career politicians, we need new ideas by new people who represent us
...the gunpowder treason and plot. I know of now reason why the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot.
Next time I'm sure will be much more successful.
Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
"everyone's getting so worked up about this 'big brother state', but what are you *honestly* doing that's gonna cause any serious concern/suspicion on the part of the ruling authorities?"
And that my friend is exactly why so many jews ended up in crematoriums.
1. "Okay the don't like us but we can still work, this is as far as they'll go"
2. "Okay we have to register and wear these stars, be we can still own our business. this is as far as they'll go"
3. "Okay, our property has been siezed, and we cant get a permit to leave. but they'd be crazy to go any farther...."
Right now it's a nebulous group. Next it becomes people who don't have "acceptable" viewpoints. Here in the US both the FBI and pentagon have been caught spying on quakers for gods sake.
Every time any government tries to increase its power, the citizens should always ask themselves "would I want (insert your least favorite politician or political group here) to have this power?"
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
With the In the Skull chip, they can put a miniature radio controlled explosive device,
triggerable by any officer of the law, or bill collector, or meter maid, or the Lords of the Manor.
That ought to keep the peasants in line.
BLOODY PEASANTS!
Do you see that?
The violence inherent in the system.
Somebody help them, they are being repressed!
Seriously, the Totalitarian Fascists gaining control in the USA are just Dreaming about the
"National Driver License" ID Card.
What purpose, but the subjection of the common man can this serve?
Security comes from good fair government that people can tolerate.
Dictators hell bent on making war with the other 1/2 of the planet,
against the will of their own population, well - it is only natural they
want to turn the whole citizenship into criminals.
UK - Under Kontrol.
Amerika is next.
Please insert all Mark-of-the-Beast rants here...
We want, information, information, information
Who are you?
The new number 2
Who is number 1
You are number 6
I am not a number I am a free man
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha
No2ID is the main opposition to the ID Cards scheme. These guys are truly wonderful people though currently somewhat gutted that the Tories sold them out & didn't even have the decency to warn them.
Tracking criminals, come on. Its just a sure way to end up with information overload. Besides, don't criminals wear balaclava's and steal cars to do crimes? You say "highly supervised" by CCTV. In Auckland city we have cameras set up all over the place. Unfortunately, after a murder occurred, we all found out that the cameras weren't being watched as there wasn't enough funding for it at the time. Great to think, as you are being dragged down an alley to be beaten to death, that you can wave goodbye.
/. bug #926803 - Why I can post.
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face -- for ever." -O'Brien (from George Orwell's 1984)
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
No, it's not a coincidence that the Proles love a movie whose script is a badly butchered rendition of a comic book - so badly butchered that the author of said comic book has distanced himself from the movie. Proles are not known for their cinematic taste. As long as things are blowing up they're happy.
On each landing, opposite the lift-shaft, the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall. It was one of those pictures which are so contrived that the eyes follow you about when you move. BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU, the caption beneath it ran.
Inside the flat a fruity voice was reading out a list of figures which had something to do with the production of pig-iron. The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled mirror which formed part of the surface of the right-hand wall. Winston turned a switch and the voice sank somewhat, though the words were still distinguishable. The instrument (the telescreen, it was called) could be dimmed, but there was no way of shutting it off completely...
Behind Winston's back the voice from the telescreen was still babbling away about pig-iron and the overfulfilment of the Ninth Three-Year Plan. The telescreen received and transmitted simultaneously. Any sound that Winston made, above the level of a very low whisper, would be picked up by it, moreover, so long as he remained within the field of vision which the metal plaque commanded, he could be seen as well as heard. There was of course no way of knowing whether you were being watched at any given moment. How often, or on what system, the Thought Police plugged in on any individual wire was guesswork. It was even conceivable that they watched everybody all the time. But at any rate they could plug in your wire whenever they wanted to. You had to live -- did live, from habit that became instinct -- in the assumption that every sound you made was overheard, and, except in darkness, every movement scrutinized.
1984 Chapter 1
Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
Maybe the MPs can get reelected by fooling the voters into thinking that somehow this plan doesn't harm their privacy nor move the UK ever closer to being a police state.
I expect that the US will follow suit. :-(
that requires ID cards for anything and everything.
Now where did I put my passport and social security card so I can cash a check to get change for a locker so I can store all the stuff I'm not allowed to take when I go flying?
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
Businesses will have access to ID database
Just wait for the first data breach, 60 million ID thefts in one go, assuming an average cost of £10K per incident that's a nice £600BN, a nice little earner and enough to sink the whole economy, talk about a terrorists wet dream.
Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
Did you hear that Tony.
It's amazing how useless a database becomes if you introduce a few 7yp0s, the 0dd ch4racter h3re or ther3.
A prison without bars is no less a prison
Welcome to the UK prison state!
England Prevails!!
Nah, the Civil Contingencies 2004 Act is the Enabling Bill. Pretty much the same one Hitler invoked by burning down the Reichstag.
Because we still have a Queen, it's debatable how far Herr Blair would push such emergency powers.
Blair's modus operandi is to sneak through totalitarianism without anyone noticing. Hence LRRB.
There are so many movements to remove rights or freedoms its almost treason.
God help you if you ever have to deal with the government.
Good examples, divorced men. If there ever is an argument for child support, states created private courts to deal with these issues.
IRS has powers to freeze assets or take assets without trial.
Then we have local police abuse and murder of innocent civilians. (Its a war right?)
Lies about the war, state tax fraud, kick backs, corrupt officals.
How can anyone take the US or the UK serriously when everything is so corrupt?
Why bother finding someone with the same biometrics as another person?
Just get ahold of the other person, take their fingers and eyes, and then disappear them. I thought that was rather obvious.
These new ID cards will be fantastic at catching one-off murderers and car thieves. They'll be even better at giving terrorists and other organised crime new ways of operating.
What is the British citizen getting for that expense?
First a correction: we're not citizens of our country, we're subjects of the Queen. In theory she can send us to the mines on a whim, although in practice our royalty are pretty nice folks that just want to be left alone.
Not being citizens is not the problem though. The real problem is that we're just slaves of our politicians, who are all total scum.
We didn't vote for any ID cards or biometrics on passports, since it wasn't put to the vote. The scum in power want more power though, so it was bound to come without a public vote.
No of course it doesn't help anyone, except Bush of course, who uses Blair as a policy support bitch all the time. In this case the War on Drugs was getting a bit flat, so the War on Terror had to be fed the blood of virgins, or of the innocent public in this case since these measures do nothing against terrorists.
It's a sad world, especially this corner of it. Britain will be the first totalitarian police state among the G8, no doubt about that. We're already tracked in our vehicles, monitored on CCTV, recorded at our phones, and spied on at our ISPs. And now we're going to be fingerprinted and retina-scanned.
It's clearly 1983. Not long for 1984 now.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
First they give up there guns (for public safety you know) then it's the EU and now ID's for all..how very French
Papers please.
(Not to be confused with the East German version)
Actually the East German Version and British versions would be quite different:
East German: "PAPERS NOW, DUMPKOFT!"
Bristish: "I say chap, but could I trouble you for your papers? Terribly sorry to intrude, but you see, ah, we're looking for these terribly unsporting chaps called terrorists, although I suppose they consider themselves freedom fighters. Miserable blighters, always blowing things up with out warning anyone first. Can't blame them for trying, I suppose. Anyway, I have to ask everybody who wants to pass my check point for their papers, and since you seem intent on going down this street, I shall have to ask you if I could see them. And, if itsn't too much trouble, I need some DNA samples taken rectally. Terribly sorry for the fuss. Oh, and don't WORRY! I'm sure that my computer here will give you a green flag, Rarely does it tell me to mow a bloke down on the spot with my submachine gun here."
(best read in a faux cleese voice for maximum balck comic effect)
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I realise that my views are not those of the majority, but:
I don't actually have any major objection to the idea of ID cards - however in this case it does seem like a major waste of time, effort and money. Let's examine a few facts:
1. If you live in the UK (as I do) you can be required to provide ID already, at any time, for practically any reason, by the boys (and girls) in blue. So, no change there.
2. Your records are already a case of "public" record - at least if you've got a driving license or a passport, or visited a hospital in the last few years, or have ever signed on, or if you have a bank account.
3. If you've set foot outside your house in the last 10 (ish) years your face is known - see all those cameras?
Does all this bother me? Only slightly - and this is not because I haven't thought about it; I have long and hard!
What does really cheese me off is the wasted opportunity. Even with this ID card I will still require my passport, my driving license, my birth certificate, my donor card, etc. This card will not contain useful medical information that can be used by doctors to save my life (or the life of someone else, should I prove 'unsavable'). This card will not benefit me in any way that I can see, though not having one will certainly be counted prejudicially against me; nor do I seriously think that it will significantly improve the security of the nation, or its inhabitants.
As I've already said: What a waste!
My passport says quite clearly "BRITISH CITIZEN".
I think the human rights act would stop the queen from sending people to the mines pretty quickly aswell (and yes, it's law) so no, the queen can't send people to the mines on a whim. Even royalty has to abide by the law (although the queen *can* step in to parliament business).
Silly rabbit
Yep, I renewed my passport recently for exactly this reason.
I'm hopeful, if not terribly optimistic, that by the time it's due to be renewed, the New Labour, nanny-state, authoritarian, draconian-law-passing regime will long since have been kicked out of office. Maybe some sanity will even have returned to our legal system - perhaps starting by repealing every law passed in recent years under the mantra of fighting terrorism that can't be shown, publicly and with clear evidence rather than based on trusting Tony, to have made an obvious and significant difference to the threat it's supposed to protect us against!
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Not any more, they're not.
The Labour Party used to be fairly left-wing, friend of the common man, strong links to the unions, more socialist than capitalist in direction, etc.
New Labour under Tony Blair have gone so right-wing they're no longer recognisable as the same party. They have all but severed their former union ties, often supported businesses over workers in their economic policy, and quite literally introduced the most draconian legislative framework for government in human history.
How they're even still in office is a mystery, explainable only by a series of quirks in our election system that basically let them fluke their way in with an absolute majority of seats in the Commons despite winning only 22% of the vote, and losing it outright if you consider England alone. They have no popular mandate, yet Home Secretary Charles Clarke likes to throw around phrases like "accepting the will of the people" when telling those who oppose government policy why they should just stop.
This administration knows they're playing on borrowed time - they've done too much damage now, and Brown is going to be nothing like the figurehead Blair was at the next election - so they're trying to write their place in the history books while they still can. Too bad they'll be remembered for all the wrong reasons as one of the worst governments anywhere in the world at any point in history, and an in 20 years this period will probably be presented as an object lesson in the importance of due process and defending civil liberties.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
That's what I thought about government when I was younger and more naive. You've nothing to fear with nothing to hide, they told me. That's fine, as long as no-one in government ever makes an honest mistake. Yeah, like that would ever happen, right?
One day, a low-level civil servant working in a tax office mistyped a National Insurance number, probably one of hundreds he entered into the system during that working day alone. Unfortunately for me, he fluked typing mine instead. My tax records instantly got tied to someone else's, I lost all my allowances without warning, and it took me countless hours ringing around countless tax offices over the next few months to get it put right.
In other words, for several months, my paycheque turned up hundreds of pounds short, without any notice, and with absolutely nothing I could do about it.
That was one number out of probably thousands typed by one government staffer out of thousands that week. Moreover, since the system now said things like I was working two full-time jobs on opposite sides of the country at the same time, it was pretty obviously screwed up when I finally did get the right person to check it. What happens when it's not just a tax allowance, but your entire life that's in the database, and the mistake isn't that your job changed, it's that you're no longer entitled to NHS medical care, or you lose state benefits you rely on to buy food, or you fail a CRB check and lose your job? And those are the nicer possibilities.
Tell that to Jean Charles de Menezes. Oh, wait, you can't, because he was shot dead by government agents after a tracking exercise went wrong and he was incorrectly identified as a terrorist.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
There are lots of ways of saying thank you to these nice scum who brought in all these totalitarian measures we didn't vote for.
And hopefully, the fingers in the till of Blair's ugly gormless wife will well and truly get caught too.
One curious thing. If you are a UK citizen but living outside the UK you will not be required to have an ID card when you renew your passport because of the lack of biometric readers in every town on the planet... you normally renew your passport by post with the embassy. So the whole scheme is a big waste of money, probably introduced because Tony Blair is getting backhanders from the American IT companies that will build the system.
Most people's main complaint about the ID card bill in the UK was the national database. At the moment, many of the databases (such as DVLA, Revenue, etc.) are not linked. This will allow them to build complete profiles.
The 'compromise' that has been reached missed the point entirely. The 'compromise' forces you onto the national database immediately.
Arse.
If you live in the UK and have ever received a fine (citation) from a speed camera (everywhere in the UK) or even from a minimum wage automaton (virtually all traffic wardens in the UK are minorities) you will know that no matter how well meaning a person you are, your professional reputation or that you were only 5 mph over the limit, or simply rushing around trying to find some lose change for the ticket machine while the parking fine was issues, when you attempt to challenge 'the system', it is time consuming, stressfull and of course, if you fail in your protest, expensive. Like the introduction of iD cards, all of this simply profits the government, local authorities and the manufacturers of the technology. This is all the realisation of the distopian nightmare of having freedom, the right to make mistakes and the right to revolt ('wither revolution?' taken away from us by a corporate sponsored government who keeps tabs on it's citizens using technology. I'm British and find this far more abhorant than any terrorist threat and prey the people of the freedom loving USA reject the lot of it. The best way to fight terrorism and other crime is for us all to keep a fair eye on suspicious activity. We have souls so can judge accordingly.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
...because under the "Glorification of Terrorism" bill, celebrating the 5th of November is now illegal.
The House of Lords are powerless to prevent the Government from introducing whatever they damn well please.
These so called compromises are meaningless, the threat to our freedom and civil liberties is the National Identity Register!
Delaying printing a piece of plastic from the database is almost irrelevent and delaying it by, wow! Two whole years is just complete and utter bollocks.
And now they want to put unmanned surveilance vehicles in our skies, what fucking planet are they on that we are their cattle?
And they want to give businesses access to my personal information without my permission! un-fucking believable.
We didn't vote for any ID cards or biometrics on passports, since it wasn't put to the vote. The scum in power want more power though, so it was bound to come without a public vote.
You or I might not have, bub, but it was in the Za-NuLabour party manifesto in the last election, so they do technically have a mandate to introduce it in whatever nefarious way they can.
The problem with this country is not just the government, it's the people who have been bought with taxpayers money who vote for them too.
1. Vaguely true in the UK. More accurately true in the US.
You know, I doubt many people outside the US remember that Bush stole TWO elections.
2. Definitely true in the US, the UK played along...
Much the same I think. One can understand paranoia better if 9/11 happens in your country. The UK has been fighting terrorists forever. Did you know Blair is refusing independent scrutiny of what happened on 7/7?
3. HAHAHAHA!
I can't believe they're both still there. Bush at least was a bit more honest than Blair. How's the plan to impeach Bush going?
4. Yes, true for the UK. Since when has Bush needed a mandate from the people for anything?
Now we're getting to why the US is better off than the UK: your constitution. We have lost pretty much every right that we had in the last 2 years.
5. At least the UK has some controls!!
No, it really doesn't. Even though we know Blair lied over the invasion, we can't impeach him. He is only accountable in the sense that Brown might one day grow a pair and challenge him.
6. and how many people are there in the US who DONT have a driving license?
True. Hope you guys don't get anything like we're getting. And at least you have your guns... ;)
Difference between British subject and British citizen
The Queen is not allowed to send you to the mines on a whim (even in theory). This is the difference between monarchy and dictatorship.
-- Ed Avis ed@membled.com
Just a thought, with so many people balking at renewing their passports so they can avoid an ID card, maybe this is a cunning govt plot to stop us all having passports, travelling the world, becoming well balanced open eyes individuals. That sort of thing.
We'd be much easier to handle if we were all insular and paranoid.
(paranoid mode off)
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
It's not the card I object to, lots of nations have them. It's the database that is the real menace. Guess their will now be a rush in 2007 and with any one with any real clue about the issue renewing their passport before the deadline.
I really do feel failed by the House of Lords by this shabby deal.
We didn't vote for any ID cards or biometrics on passports, since it wasn't put to the vote. The scum in power want more power though, so it was bound to come without a public vote.
Everyone knew that New Labour [tm] wanted to introduce ID cards way before the election last year, and yet, they still won it. I'm sorry, but we did vote for it.
What happens when gene sequencing gets better? Then this 'ID' will allow companies to change their policies towards you based on genetic likelihood in your biometric data. You want life insurance? Hmm, lets see.. looks like you have gene 432 expressed.. 80% of people with this gene die before they reach 40 ... sorry, no can do. Ditto health insurance, pension funds etc.. A brave new world indeed.
I guess the next revolution is one step closer.
It's instructive to watch history repeat itself, because it allows me to see just how Hitler and the Third Reich were able to achieve what they did without people stopping them. It's one thing to learn about it in school, when you seldom understand the full spectrum of what is being taught.
I can now safely say that it's not that people didn't know back then. Just as now, the people just DID NOT CARE enough to do something about it. So in sixty years we have learnt exactly.... nothing.
It's just sad that so many new people will have to die needlessly before we realise our error yet again. As an "intelligent" race we really don't deserve our place at the top of the food chain, because intelligence denotes reason and so far I don't see any.
I won't weep for our destruction, because we deserve it.
Visceral Psyche Films
Seeing as a passport lasts 10 years, I wonder how many will be falling into shreaders / spontaneously combusting before the ID database is set-up, requiring a replacement without regestering.
The problem is not the ID card it's the database, so the deadline to avoid registering has still not moved.
Then again knowing the history of government IT projects the database MIGHT be functional with valid data by 2050 (admittedly valid data for 2010 and only for people who were over 75 at the time, but at least it's 'valid') having only cost the country three times it's GNP. However the junk mail industry will be very happy with the full lists that were leaked to them, organised crime will have new earner and the anyone not working in those two sectors will be working for the civil service maintaining the data.
Or am I just being cynical?
but we did vote for it.
Really irritating use of the word 'we'. About 9.5 million people voted Labour in the 2005 general election. That's about 16% of the population. 16%. That means 84% didn't vote for them.
I'm sorry, but speak for yourself. I never have voted for nor ever forsee myself voting for the Labour scumbags.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
Here is my conribution to the National Identity Register Database.
DELETE * FROM People
INSERT INTO People (FirstName, LastName, Description) VALUES ('Tony','Blair', 'Corrupt lying cryptofascist war criminal bastard.')
No, neither did I. But a sufficient amount of us did, and that's what counts :(
We did not vote for it.
We voted for a party with a number of policies listed in their manifesto, some of which we liked, and others which we didn't.
We were given no choice in the matter. That was intentional.
Voting for a party does not mean that you voted for each and every item in their manifesto, even if the party in power unfailingly claims as much. In so much as they do make that claim, they are liars.
"People should not be afraid of their governments... etc."
Revolution, anyone?
The trouble with we Brits, is this: We are too complacent.
Remember, Remember....
Everyone knew that New Labour [tm] wanted to introduce ID cards way before the election last year, and yet, they still won it. I'm sorry, but we did vote for it.
Leaving aside the fact that only a minority of people voted for Labour, and that few of those knew about the ID card scheme, there is also the point that their manifesto claimed that ID cards would be voluntary.
So, far from fulfilling a manifesto pledge, they are actually breaking it.
(And yes, yes, I know that Blair and Clarke like to use childish logic to twist things so that "compulsary" equals "voluntary", but this clearly isn't what any normal person with a basic grasp of logic and the English language would assume they mean.)
First a correction: we're not citizens of our country, we're subjects of the Queen. In theory she can send us to the mines on a whim, although in practice our royalty are pretty nice folks that just want to be left alone.
The Queen remains our monarch solely because the people, as a whole, believe that the benefits of this (tradition, tourism, and a ruler who did not choose the role out of a love for power) outweigh the disadvantages (tradition, tourism, and Prince Charles). She knows that her throne is a privilege, not a right. She knows that she is only Queen because the people have chosen to tolerate her.
And if she has ever studied history, she will know very well what happens when the monarch presumes to claim that s/he has any inherent right to rule. The Americans have a saying about using bullets when the ballots stop working... but over here, we rather prefer the axe.
"First a correction: we're not citizens of our country, we're subjects of the Queen. In theory she can send us to the mines on a whim, although in practice our royalty are pretty nice folks that just want to be left alone."
Hah! Tell that to my Grandparents, Great grandparents and countless other ancestors who were tortured, starved and run out of Ireland by her and her mom...
I'm Belgian, and here we've had mandatory id cards forever. We're supposed to carry it at all times, and show it to policemen if asked. This is just meant to allow the police to quickly and quite reliably check your name and adress. I honestly don't see how that's a problem, and I am certainly not under the impression of living in a fascist country.
"Anyway, if the government can track you by your ID card, then they don't need to resort to a bunch of illegal stuff to fight crime and terrorism, as it seems to be a habit lately."
So, why is it that you think giving your freedom up voluntarily is any better than having it snatched from you?
You've gotten used to your chains. I am truly sorry for you.
"The government grants you rights, not the other way around."-- beav007. Yes, these people really exist...
Have you heard of NANI and how it will be implemented? http://2010ukid.blogspot.com/2006/03/one-number-to -bring-them-all-and-in.html
It is not a compromise - it is a delayed defeat for those that are against the abuse of our civil rights.
BTW the carrying of card at all times is a 'Red Herring'.
You always carry your biometrics (finger and eye) with you.
You can be scanned with a remote device (with radio link to database) to get your unique ID number and details.
They will have effectively branded you - like Nazis did to Jews at Auschwitz.
Really irritating use of the word 'we'. About 9.5 million people voted Labour in the 2005 general election. That's about 16% of the population. 16%. That means 84% didn't vote for them.
84% not voting for id cards is not the same as 84% voting against them.
cpeterso
Here in Britain, we're a fairly calm lot. Recently, across the tunnel, our French friends have been rioting against being *fired* from their first job, why are we sat idly back, whilst the govt. watches our every move and becomes totalitarien!?
-- From the lovley land of Air Strip One. we love Tony Blair, T.B.T.B.T.B.T.B....