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RIAA Recommends Students Drop out of College
boarder8925 writes "An MIT student accused of copyright infringement has been documenting her struggles with the RIAA. Upon trying to negotiate her settlement, a representative told her that "the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements.""
Drop out of school so you can afford the settlement offer, which will severely hinder your earning potential, causing you to pirate more material because you can't afford it... lather, rinse, repeat.
I haven't ever really understood what the RIAA hopes to achieve from all their lawsuits and extortion rackets, I mean all they are doing is alienating their core market the way they have been going recently I can't wait for someone to make a stand against them in court.
I download music from the internet quite frequently, if I like the song I have downloaded I will usually buy the album if I don't like it I delete it, does this mean I am commiting a crime? In my case p2p has caused my to buy more cds than I usually would have if I hadn't of been exposed to certain artists and songs. Is this common I really don't know perhaps other people don't purchase cds by artists they like personally I like to support musicians I like.
One great example my favorite group collective soul release an album entirely self financed, the day it was released I was able to find tracks on p2p which I downloaded and listened to constantly, until my next paycheck came through at which point I went out and purchased 5 copies of the album 2 for me 3 for various family members, I did the same with two of their previous albums, I own every single album they have release in some cases more than one copy of the album, it gets interesting when you consider I discovered this group through p2p in the first place.
GeekServ Unix Consulting Services (http://www.geekserv.com)
Are any of you still buying RIAA label cd's? If you are, you are supporting this crap.
This has to stop.
clearly, if the person is no longer a college student, he/she will be less likely to pirate music. Brillant.
The RIAA is suggesting she may want to drop out of college to pay the settlement IF she agrees to it, because she was complaining that she couldn't afford it. It seems like they're doing what most bill collectors do, which is suggesting you get rid of pretty much every unnecessary expense you have in order to pay them. Of course, what they consider unnecessary may not be the same as what you consider unnecessary.
To agree to the settlement is basically to agree that you wronged them in some way, and should pay them. Once you've agreed to that, how you actually pay the settlement isn't their problem. They may make suggestions, some of which you might find distasteful or even absurd, but the bottom line is they don't care how you pay a settlement you agreed to, so long as you pay it.
She might have to drop out of school just to pay for the webhosting bill...
I can't believe that the RIAA would stoop to such a level. The scariest part is that perfectly intelligent people believe that everyone who is sued by the RIAA deserves it and is guilty. I wish that there was some simple way to explain to a lay-person how knowing the IP address of someone downloading music doesn't mean much in linking to an actual person. People assume that an IP address is like a social security number, that always links to a single person and always to the same person. This fallacy is one of our biggest problems in infroming lay-people about what the RIAA is doing. Maybe this bit of info will help people to see how evil the RIAA actually is.
Run Over by the RIAA Don't Tap the Glass
By Cassi Hunt
Either since the day I visited my first aquarium or the day Goldie came into my family's life, our parents have told us not to tap the glass of the fish tank. It's cruel to Goldie -- I understand and respect that. I mean, heck, I am a vegetarian. But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point. And in that spirit, I decided to call up my new friend at the RIAA negotiation hotline again. (Hereafter I'll refer to her as Bowie, which means "yellow haired," as I'm pretty sure that's the case.)
Last time I spoke with Bowie, the conversation was pretty much over after she named $3750 as the settlement amount. (I haven't actually agreed to settle yet.) So when I called her again, I asked -- again -- about how to negotiate that amount. I counted on the fact that self-important types wouldn't be inclined to remember a lowly pirate like me. Bowie didn't disappoint. She launched into her spiel about how the RIAA doesn't negotiate settlements. I told her that it was too much to ask for thousands of dollars from a college student who only makes just enough from term and summer employment to still come out a couple thousand in debt.
Bowie replied that the RIAA was oh-so-kind enough to offer a six month repayment plan. At this point, I was beginning to speculate on Bowie's hair color, and decided to switch tactics. I concisely and calmly explained how the situation was ridiculous: they weren't offering a settlement, they were issuing an ultimatum! Let us screw you over gently now, or with chains and whips in court. Surely there must be some flexibility for individual cases.
Well, she replied, they do make allowances if something like a medical emergency comes up. Now we're getting somewhere. "And who would I talk to about a situation like that, because I'd like to talk to them now."
"Me," she replied. Ever feel like your nose has just been flattened by something large and solid? I mean, besides the doors at 77 Mass. Ave. "But you're not in a situation like that."
Oh, but I am. The Institvte has left me with severe bouts of p-set-induced insomnia and a case of stuck-to-desk-itis that recurs two to three times in a semester, then again just before break. And my wallet certainly takes a hit for it.
But as much as I tried to argue that I was in as unique a situation as someone with medical expenses, there was no getting through. Bowie even had the audacity to say, "In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements."
Are. You. Shitting. Me.
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk. The Recording Industry of America would rather see America's youth deprived of higher education, forever marring their ability to contribute personally and financially to society -- including the arts -- so that they may crucify us as examples to our peers. To say nothing of wrecking our lives in the process. I finally understand what the RIAA meant when they told me "stealing music is not a victimless crime" -- the victims hang for all to see.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities. Please tell me you actually care about the futures of the age demographic that buys most of your music (http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/pdf/2004co nsumerprofile.pdf). Your evil pirates are people too, people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately. Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve consideration, if not for the sake of empathy for your f
Here's TFA (in case of an unlikely slashdotting):
Run Over by the RIAA Don...t Tap the Glass
By Cassi Hunt
Either since the day I visited my first aquarium or the day Goldie came into my family's life, our parents have told us not to tap the glass of the fish tank. It's cruel to Goldie -- I understand and respect that. I mean, heck, I am a vegetarian. But would we have many qualms over a little water perturbation if Goldie were, say, a bloodthirsty shark? I'd knock on that glass to the near-cracking point. And in that spirit, I decided to call up my new friend at the RIAA negotiation hotline again. (Hereafter I'll refer to her as Bowie, which means "yellow haired," as I'm pretty sure that's the case.)
Last time I spoke with Bowie, the conversation was pretty much over after she named $3750 as the settlement amount. (I haven't actually agreed to settle yet.) So when I called her again, I asked -- again -- about how to negotiate that amount. I counted on the fact that self-important types wouldn't be inclined to remember a lowly pirate like me. Bowie didn't disappoint. She launched into her spiel about how the RIAA doesn't negotiate settlements. I told her that it was too much to ask for thousands of dollars from a college student who only makes just enough from term and summer employment to still come out a couple thousand in debt.
Bowie replied that the RIAA was oh-so-kind enough to offer a six month repayment plan. At this point, I was beginning to speculate on Bowie's hair color, and decided to switch tactics. I concisely and calmly explained how the situation was ridiculous: they weren't offering a settlement, they were issuing an ultimatum! Let us screw you over gently now, or with chains and whips in court. Surely there must be some flexibility for individual cases.
Well, she replied, they do make allowances if something like a medical emergency comes up. Now we're getting somewhere. "And who would I talk to about a situation like that, because I'd like to talk to them now."
"Me," she replied. Ever feel like your nose has just been flattened by something large and solid? I mean, besides the doors at 77 Mass. Ave. "But you're not in a situation like that."
Oh, but I am. The Institvte has left me with severe bouts of p-set-induced insomnia and a case of stuck-to-desk-itis that recurs two to three times in a semester, then again just before break. And my wallet certainly takes a hit for it.
But as much as I tried to argue that I was in as unique a situation as someone with medical expenses, there was no getting through. Bowie even had the audacity to say, "In fact, the RIAA has been known to suggest that students drop out of college or go to community college in order to be able to afford settlements."
Are. You. Shitting. Me.
There you have it, fellow Techsters: proof of the fantastic levels of absurdity to which the RIAA attack has sunk. The Recording Industry of America would rather see America's youth deprived of higher education, forever marring their ability to contribute personally and financially to society -- including the arts -- so that they may crucify us as examples to our peers. To say nothing of wrecking our lives in the process. I finally understand what the RIAA meant when they told me "stealing music is not a victimless crime" -- the victims hang for all to see.
Please, RIAA -- if any competent representative happens to enjoy flipping through The Tech -- please tell me Bowie is a moronic tool who can't help what the Superior Gray Coverage Golden Blonde hair dye does to her mental facilities. Please tell me you actually care about the futures of the age demographic that buys most of your music (http://www.riaa.com/news/marketingdata/pdf/2004co nsumerprofile.pdf). Your evil pirates are people too, people who enjoy music and almost always still purchase it legitimately. Each has an individual life and circumstances that deserve c
I don't understand the problem. If you think they're evil, don't consume their products. Why the hell do people treat CDs like friggen crack? You DON'T NEED IT. Paid, free, physical media or downloaded, just stop. The artists are part of the beast as well, why respect them if they're willing participants as well? Don't even listen to it on the radio.
You can't simultaneously support something you find evil and retain a shred of credibility, so just stop. If you can't stop and are willing to break the law for your fix, I humbly suggest that you quite literally have a substance abuse problem and should seek professional help or a twelve-step program or something.
Hell, spend your CD money on booze and then join AA so you can sit around and blame the RIAA for your alcoholism.
"Go and invest that $150,000 in your own business and you'll be much happier (and successful)."
Sure, because all businesses succeed (hint: less than 1 in 10 do). Or because it's easy to get financing for a business plan when you're 18 -- don't forget that student loans and other financial aid are pretty much guaranteed. Or because people at the age of 18 all have the skills to run a business.
That "education" you speak of so disparagingly is what gives us a workforce that innovates, that has the knowledge necessary for complex jobs... like in the fields medicine (practice or research, you pick), or engineering, etc.
"Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
She did the action in question. She is responsible for the penalties for undertaking that action.
/hill\ 55mph construction zone - cop at bottom of hill).
We all have to make hard choices every day.
The last time I broke a speeding law, it was pretty bogus. I still paid for the ticket and took the classes. IMHO- that particular speeding ticket set up was unfair (basically 70mph
She chose to download songs. She probably also foolishly didn't use programs like peer guardian. She also got unlucky.
Yes- Riaa are weasels. But by now, surely we ALL know that if you download copyrighted material you are risking a 3kish fine (or being ruined in court if you tried to fight it).
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I never used the term "evil" seriously before, because the concept of good and evil is pretty alien to me (I am a moderate Christian from Europe). But suggesting to drop out of college to pay a settlement for some p2p music stuff... (stealing would be if the company looses something, which is not the case with copying digital content).
I do think content producers (and software writers for that matter) need protection, but that?
Ask yourself, if you worked your butt off for some software and someone who is not willing to pay for it and would not use it if they had to but copied it and offered it for share, should they be made to drop out of college to pay for the settlement?
I have to agree.....
question 1. Did you download copyrighted material without monetary recompense inviolation of current civil law? (notice how I avoid the use of the words "steal" or "pirate", nor did I use the word illegal)
question 2. Are you not an adult, legally responsible for your actions?...
You see, I have many things in life that I need, like my house, which I need as much as this person needs his/her education. I could get a cheaper house, she/he could get a cheaper education. If I were to be hit with a lawsuit that would surely bankrupt me, I would be forced to sell my house (or give it up in other ways) As an adult, I am responsible for my actions, and if I take actions that endanger the stability of my life, and those things in my life that I consider important, I do so knowing that I may be called upon to live up to that obligation. College is not just a place to get the book knowledge, its a place to learn to be an adult. This is a big lesson.
You violated the law, you must make restitution. Either settle for what they want, or take your chance with the court, like an adult. No sympathy.
if I like the song I have downloaded I will usually buy the album [...] does this mean I am commiting a crime?
It's not a crime. It's perfectly legal to voluntarily give money to an illegal price-fixing cartel, although the morality is obviously questionable.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/
I suspect, when it comes right down to it, the RIAA's policy as far as lawsuits are concerned really have nothing to do with enforcing the law. When you look at the pattern of their lawsuits, it almost seems that they intentionally avoid sparing anyone - be they children, old women who have never used a computer before, or people who more than likely had someone sneak onto their unsecured wi-fi network. These are people who are either obviously innocent, or don't deserve to be subjected to lawsuits that could cost them tens of thousands of dollars. At their worst, most of these folks a being nailed for a few bucks worth of music. The punishment doesn't particularly fit the crime, in this case, and the RIAA likely knows this. Frankly, the penalty for downloading copyrighted material is rather terrifying. The lawsuits filed by the RIAA are an attempt to capitalize on this terror. They're not designed to stop dedicated pirates. As many people have pointed out in the past, dedicated pirates will get what they want regardless. However, by creating an atmosphere where you just don't know who's going to get sued next, they intimidate your 'average Joes' into sticking off the filesharing networks. The fact that these lawsuits pretty much pay for themselves is an added bonus.
What really gets my goat about this entire campaign is that it's done at great expense to many of its victims. These are people who are being subjected to lawsuits for no purpose other than to make an example to the rest of the country of just what happens when you mess with the music industry. They bear an unfair burden, under the law, to scare those the industry can't catch in the act into getting in line. I hope this madness comes to an end soon.
There's more you can do than just boycott RIAA labels. Here's some ideas:
1. Write your congressman - you can even do it via email. Follow this link for a really simple way to do that. Will they listen? If enough of you complain they will. (Don't be negative and say democracy doesn't work.)
2. When you talk to your friends, let them know this is going on. Believe it or not, a lot of people don't know about this issue. The more people you tell, the more this becomes an issue.
3. This stuff is making the mainstream news. When you see this issue come up in a newspaper, write a letter to the editor about it. More people read letters to the editor than articles in the paper. Tell people the ideas in this message to get them to not support RIAA.
4. Complain on artist websites and give artists bad press. Not planning on buying the latest Bruce Springsteen CD? Why don't you write him and tell him you're not doing it because he's on a RIAA label. Big artists are not "victims" of decisions by their labels.
5. Buy indie labels and let people know you're buying indie labels.
6. Buy a t-shirt about this. Here's some to choose from:
#1, #2, and #3
Your other alternative is to not give a fuck like everyone else. Everyone has to have their issue and maybe this one isn't yours. Hopefully I've given you some ideas for getting involved about something though.
----- obSig
What if he downloads it, likes it, doesn't delete it, and doesn't buy the CD?
"When the atomic bomb goes off there's devastation...but when the atomic bong goes off there's celebraaaaation!"
So the solution is simple: hold up a record store, pay the RIAA with the proceeds, and keep the rest to yourself.
When a person is sued they can either a) pay a lawyer to defend them or b) pay the plaintiff to settle the suit. The RIAA makes it clear that they will do whatever it takes to make sure a is greater than b.
This is extortion.
Why? Because it does not depend on whether the person has actually done anything wrong. Instead the RIAA wields a side-effect of our justice system (cost) as a weapon against whoever they please. Whether they can prove anything makes little difference, it is simply a matter of cost.
Consider this: although piracy can be prosecuted as a crime, the RIAA never follows that path. They always go civil. This way they can neatly avoid the solution of a court-appointed attorney, and they do not have to deal with the police and DA, who have a pesky habit of actually evaluating the merits of cases before going forward. By keeping it civil the RIAA is free to file against whoever the hell they want, no matter how slim the evidence.
By initiating lawsuits against those who willfully, without the consent of the copyright holders, infringe copyrights, it's hard to see how they're "alienating their core market".
How do you know that the defendants are in fact willfully infringing copyrights? They never have the cash to make their case and fight it out in court. From my perspective it's pretty alienating to know that I could be taken to the cleaners for thousands by an industry association, even if I did nothing wrong.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
If one cannot afford to pay to mount a legal defense, you either pay, or you PAY. Innocence does not mater.
Also, she's implying that she's a veggie because she's kind to animals, not the other way around.
The woman with the hair dye is not her accuser, as you state. The RIAA is her accuser (corporations = people in court). The woman is a representative of her accuser, and it is perfectly reasonable to consider the possibility that she is a moron. The specific sentence you quote is in fact an appeal to those components of the RIAA which are not moronic - the author is assuming they exist and hence admitting the likelihood that this particular representative does not represent the intelligence level of her actual accuser.
The point of this story, which parent ignores, was the absolutely bizzare quote about how people should drop out of college to pay their settlements. I find it bizzare for two reasons:
How parent got modded insightful is a mystery; the "insightful" poster seems to be reading at about a third grade level.
1. Dropping out of MIT is a great idea. I did it twice.
2. You will not go to jail for non-payment of a civil debt. However, they may find a way to withdraw the funds from your assets (bank account, car, etc.)
It's not funny because it's redundant.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
To put this into context for anyone who's thinking "huh?"
:)
Bad debtors were once jailed within 'Debtors Prison', being removed as functional members of society, until their debts were paid. Once this was proved to be ineffective, and as modern considerations on fair rights came to play, an effect coined as 'The Race of the Swiftest' occurred. Creditors would, upon learning of a company's misfortune, take legal action against a debtor and be granted a portion of the company's assets in compensation for their debts. While this was reasonably effective for such creditors, there was no remedy for those creditors who were not as 'swift' to learn of the insolvency soon enough.
As a result of this unfairness, various governments introduced Bankruptcy, such as Canada's 'Bankruptcy & Insolvency Act' and the US's 'Bankruptcy Act' (Chapter 11). The intention of these is to balance all interests, while being fair. They are all, in one form or another, intended to (a) give an honest but unfortunate debtor a 'fresh start' by relieving of them of the burden of most of their debts, and (b) to repay creditors in an orderly and fair manner using the resources of the debtor (read: liquidate assets and distribute to creditors based on a fair order of security and distributed evenly within each class).
Just in case debtors prison sounds confusing
-M
when you see the word 'Linux', drink!
Section 504(c) of the Copyright Act allows for statutory damages of between $750 and $30,000 per violation and up to $150,000 per violation if the infringement was willfull. If you figure each song is a separate violation, it doesn't take much to make up a huge number.