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Google/Earthlink Wins San Francisco WiFi Deal

maximander wrote to mention coverage in the San Francisco Chronicle of that city's final decision on their city-wide WiFi system. They've chosen to go with Google and EarthLink. From the article: "In choosing to negotiate with the Google-EarthLink team, the city is going with two Internet giants with marque names. Both firms have deep pockets and proven track records online, but only limited experience building a large wireless network. The project, championed by Mayor Gavin Newsom, is intended to boost the city's technology credentials and help bridge the digital divide between the Internet haves and have-nots. It has also generated intense interest from other cities looking to build similar networks. "

149 comments

  1. I'd love to try it by Tezkah · · Score: 4, Funny

    Anyone know when it will be out of beta?

    *ducks*

    1. Re:I'd love to try it by Thud457 · · Score: 1

      Whatever happened to the plan to drive trucks with GPS & digital cameras around and map things at street-level? (That was google, wasn't it?)

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    2. Re:I'd love to try it by adamjudson · · Score: 1

      You might be thinking of A9.

      Or if you want to DIY try photomap.mozdev.org

      Adam

    3. Re:I'd love to try it by Eric+Giguere · · Score: 1

      When they're done testing their new AdSense for WiFi program.

  2. Not surprised... by PenguinBoyDave · · Score: 4, Informative

    This isn't much of a surprise. Google is a Bay area fixture, and Earthlink has a major focus on providing urban Broadband. The partnership of the two is a natural and will make SF a key example of what more metro areas need to be.

    --
    I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
    1. Re:Not surprised... by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, there is some opposition to Google's ad-supported free aspect of this service. You can't please everybody...

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    2. Re:Not surprised... by PapayaSF · · Score: 1

      ...will make SF a key example of what more metro areas need to be.

      Well, maybe. But isn't anyone worried about turning cities into ISPs? Will they be faster and better at fixing net problems than potholes? What happens when the city supervisors decide some websites and newsgroups represent "hate" and must be banned? What happens when spammers bring their laptops to SF and spew out millions of spams? It seems to me there's a lot starry-eyed optimism about wireless access that's "free" (really taxpayer-financed) and not much thought given to possible downsides.

      --
      Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
    3. Re:Not surprised... by PenguinBoyDave · · Score: 1

      Oh...sure...ruin a good idea. (end of sarcasm). Seriously though, that is a very good point.

      --
      I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
    4. Re:Not surprised... by catprog · · Score: 1

      Gogole and Earthlink are running it. It is not taxpayer-financed, but instead financed by Google and Earthlink.

      --
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    5. Re:Not surprised... by kimo123 · · Score: 1

      No the san francisco solution is not tax payer financed nor is it run by the city.

  3. so... by joe+155 · · Score: 0

    This will cost about $20 a month (based on there other pricing settings) so I don't really see this doing anything to address the "have and have nots" viz-a-viz the internet and Wifi. It probably won't be good enough to replace your home net connection and for $20 I would think you could get an ok net connection and a cheap rooter so how does it address the problem?

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    1. Re:so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if you have neither cable or phone? I refuse to pay AT&T or Comcast extra money for services that I don't want.

    2. Re:so... by ibi · · Score: 1

      The $20 figure is only if you get the "premium" earthlink version. The Google version is free.

    3. Re:so... by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      Google is going to provide an ad-based "free" option, with bandwidth constraints. So it does help address the "digital divide".

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    4. Re:so... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "This will cost about $20 a month (based on there other pricing settings) so I don't really see this doing anything to address the "have and have nots" viz-a-viz the internet and Wifi."

      Chances are, if you can't spring a measly $20/mo....you probably can't afford to have a computer in the first place. It might be best suggested for those in this category, to go hit the public library, and use the connections and equipment there free of charge....possibly helping them to attain more education, and skills to get a better job to afford their own computers and connectivity.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  4. WiFi, not Cash by mypalmike · · Score: 5, Funny

    The project, championed by Mayor Gavin Newsom, is intended to boost the city's technology credentials and help bridge the digital divide between the Internet haves and have-nots.

    The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!

    --
    There are 0x40000000 types of people: those who understand 32-bit IEEE 754 floating point, and those who don't.
    1. Re:WiFi, not Cash by teledyne · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You make a good point... sure free Wifi will "bridge the digital divide between the Internet haves and have-nots" but will it bridge the divide between the computer haves and have-nots?

      Unfortunately this agreement between Google-Earthlink and the City of SF is only helping those many unemployed people get wifi access whose local coffee shop are to cheap to provide wifi access for their customers.

      Is this agreement going to increase computer accessibility to the poor? Are there going to be more computers at the public library branches located throughout the city? Don't push your luck.

    2. Re:WiFi, not Cash by Jamil+Karim · · Score: 0, Troll

      Haven't you heard of trickle-down economics? There are millions of middle class people that will no longer have to pay $40 a month ($480 a year) on Wi-Fi access. With this additional "income", these middle class people will give more money, goods and services to the poor people.

      Oh - What do you mean it doesn't work?

    3. Re:WiFi, not Cash by ThinSkin · · Score: 1
      The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!

      Good God lad....LMFAO!

    4. Re:WiFi, not Cash by UnanimousCoward · · Score: 1

      Well, T'loin folks just need to be tight with da Mayor like Larry and Sergey are...

      --
      Twelve-and-three-quarter inches. Unyielding. This wand belonged to Bellatrix Lestrange.
    5. Re:WiFi, not Cash by Matt+Perry · · Score: 1
      The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!
      Nice attempt at a troll. If you had bothered to read the article you would have seen the following:
      Both companies would share the cost of installing the necessary equipment, estimated at up to $12 million. San Francisco will pay nothing and actually reap some fees by leasing city property as perches for Wi-Fi antennas.
      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    6. Re:WiFi, not Cash by bertramwooster · · Score: 1

      The folks sleeping on the streets of the Tenderloin want their WiFi!

      Maybe the have-nots can charge tourists for wireless connectivity...

    7. Re:WiFi, not Cash by smooth+wombat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      whose local coffee shop are to cheap to provide wifi access for their customers.

      You say that as if it's a bad thing. There is nothing that says anyone must provide WiFi to anyone. Certainly nothing compelling a business to do so. Unless you mean a bunch of slackers using the shops electricity to power their laptops and occupying tables all the while ordering one cup of coffee.

      Don't confuse cheap with being sensible. Maybe the shops don't want to deal with the expense and hassle of setting up WiFi. Sure, you could always offer to do it (you did offer your services to those cheapies, right? Right?) but they're the ones who will still be stuck with maintaining the system.

      Just because you think a coffeeshop should be providing WiFi for your use doesn't mean they agree. You want access in a coffeeshop, go to someplace which offers it or start your own shop and offer WiFi.

      --
      We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    8. Re:WiFi, not Cash by K-Man · · Score: 1


      It's true, nothing much is different for these folks, except that now the voices are saying "Buy and Sell Spare Change on EBay".

      --
      ---- "If we have to go on with these damned quantum jumps, then I'm sorry that I ever got involved" - Erwin Schrodinger
    9. Re:WiFi, not Cash by Popcorn+Dave · · Score: 2, Funny

      Haven't you seen the latest issue of Make? There's an article on turning your shopping cart in to a WiFi antenna...

  5. how long before lawsuits by hansoloaf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    or political maneuvering from telecos in the California Legislature to put an end to this? I bet they will wait until Google/Earthlink nears completion - then they will try to pull the rug and take over themselves.

  6. Let's just get this out of the way now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative
    For those of you who can't be bothered to read TFA:


    San Francisco will pay nothing and actually reap some fees by leasing city property as perches for Wi-Fi antennas.

    1. Re:Let's just get this out of the way now by fury88 · · Score: 1

      I was wondering who was paying to maintain these hotspots? I mean at some point they are going to weather, etc.

  7. 2-Tier Pricing Can Be Profitable ... by rewinn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Google, in Mountain View, intends to provide the free, so-called Wi-Fi access. The service it proposes would be faster than dial-up but slower than a typical broadband connection. In its joint bid, Earthlink plans to offer speedier access, but for a fee.

    It looks like the entire scheme is a classic "the first dose is free but the good stuff'll cost ya" scheme. That's not necessarily a bad way to go, to implement a public good while preserving competitive incentives.

  8. Bridging the gap? by generic-man · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've never seen a bum sitting out on the street with his laptop asking, "Wi-Fi connection? Spare a kilobit? Sir? Sir?" to passersby. Unless Mayor Newsom is handing out $100 laptops to vagrants on the street, I don't know how this bridges the gap between tech haves and have-nots. Any word on plans to provide more than radio waves to the have-nots?

    --
    For more information, click here.
    1. Re:Bridging the gap? by Buzz_Litebeer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think he is talking about the poor not the homeless. The poor are even getting to the point were they are purchasing machines, even second hand ones that you or I wouldnt pay for, but they are willing to pay a 100 bucks for and they then have a computer.

      A homeless man is another problem entirely. But for a poor person, all the sudden being able to use a cheap wifi connector and some knowhow to get internet for free instead of 45 a month will be a great boon.

      --
      If you don't vote, you don't matter, so don't waste your time telling me your opinion
    2. Re:Bridging the gap? by generic-man · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Don't libraries already offer free (filtered) Internet access to patrons with no equipment purchase necessary? I really have a hard time understanding the justification* for littering the city with wireless transmitters and claiming it will bridge any sort of gap, even if the city incurs no expense in doing so.

      * Other than "A Vote For Mayor Newsom is a Vote For Free Wifi!" posters at the local coffeehouse

      --
      For more information, click here.
    3. Re:Bridging the gap? by KFury · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Don't libraries already offer free (filtered) Internet access to patrons with no equipment purchase necessary? I really have a hard time understanding the justification* for littering the city with wireless transmitters and claiming it will bridge any sort of gap"

      Going to the library twice a week to check your email isn't the same thing as having a broadband 24/7 connection in your home. It's people who don't realize that who are holding the digital divide wide open, pushing with both arms.

    4. Re:Bridging the gap? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, as I understand it, the $100 laptop guys are going to flatly refuse to sell their $100 laptop here in the US, even to the poor.

    5. Re:Bridging the gap? by generic-man · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I know people my age who are perfectly capable of paying for DSL who don't feel a 24/7 broadband connection is a vital expense. Dial-up providers still cater to people for whom $10 a month is an acceptable cost for Internet access. This service is going to be speed-limited and ad-supported -- how do you even know it's going to be "broadband" for free?

      Tomorrow on Slashdot: some people claim not to own televisions, have landline phones, or read newspapers! How can we let this injustice stand?!

      --
      For more information, click here.
    6. Re:Bridging the gap? by goldspider · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "But for a poor person, all the sudden being able to use a cheap wifi connector and some knowhow to get internet for free instead of 45 a month will be a great boon.

      If only the poor's problems stemmed from not having Internet access.

      This is California. Initiatives like this are more about gaining status among the entitlement demographic than any genuine desire to address poverty.

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    7. Re:Bridging the gap? by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's drop this crap now, please.

      This service wasn't available before. Now it will be.

      Some people will take advantage - poor and non-poor alike. Those who are less poor will take more advantage, as usual.

      Some people won't take advantage. Many will be poor, some will not.

      So how does this make the whole project somehow a Bad Thing?

      In other words, if you don't have utopia, don't do anything at all? Is that your argument?

      As a guy who's been out sick for three weeks and can't make my current rent payment, while still making my $33 DSL/phone bill, I say this service will come in handy for some poor people. Considering that SBC DSL goes for $14/month now, most people will desktops won't bother with the $20 Wi-Fi, although some who only do email may go for the 300Kbps free ad version. But anybody with a laptop will find $20/month for city-wide access appealing and even more will find the free ad version appealing since most of the time external laptop use is just for email checking anyway.

      There's nothing wrong with this service. It will help some people and not help others. Nobody said it was going to solve all urban problems.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    8. Re:Bridging the gap? by KFury · · Score: 1

      "I know people my age who are perfectly capable of paying for DSL who don't feel a 24/7 broadband connection is a vital expense."

      Who said 'vital expense'? I know people who think that $0/month is less of a financial hardship than $10/month.

      "This service is going to be speed-limited and ad-supported -- how do you even know it's going to be "broadband" for free?"

      Because I can RTFA, specifically the part that says the free access will operate at 300kbps, which is 6 times faster than dialup, doesn't tie up your phone line, and can even let you get rid of your phone line by paying Vonage or Skype $10/mo instead of AT&T $30/mo.

      "Tomorrow on Slashdot: some people claim not to own televisions, have landline phones, or read newspapers! How can we let this injustice stand?!"

      Oh now you're just trolling. Nobody is saying that the pre-wifi world is unjust. I'm only saying that it's stupid to assert that giving free wifi is somehow a bad thing because they could get free (filtered) net access at the library. I can read free books at the library but I'm not going to picket Barnes and Noble because of it, and I certainly wouldn't if Barnes and Noble started giving away their books for free.

  9. Hopefully, quicker than Philadelphia by jellings · · Score: 2, Informative

    It would be good to see one of these city wireless plans finally come to fruition;
    Philadelphia has been having a tough time finally getting its own initiative off the ground . . .
    http://www.wirelessphiladelphia.org/

    I also look forward to seeing evidence that these initiatives are bridging the 'digital divide' in these cities.

    1. Re:Hopefully, quicker than Philadelphia by unjedai · · Score: 1

      What digital divide? Read this NY Times story about the lack of one: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/31/us/31divide.html ?_r=1&oref=login (Registration required, or get credentials here: http://www.bugmenot.com/view.php?url=www.nytimes.c om)

  10. Replacement? by fusto99 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    From the article... "It remains to be seen whether residents will use the Wi-Fi system as a replacement for their existing wire-based Internet connections. Early fears by the mayor that the telecommunications industry would fight against the project by filing lawsuits have yet to materialize." As we've seen with people willing to pay extra for the faster speeds of Cable over DSL, I doubt many people will use it as a replacement for broadband. You can also think about how many people use NetZero's free dialup server instead of paying for another dialup provider such as Earthlink. I guess time will tell though on what affect it has on competitors.

    1. Re:Replacement? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "...people use NetZero's free dialup server instead of paying for another dialup provider such as Earthlink."

      Just out of curiosity, I went to NetZero's site...to see about 'free' dial up, in case I'm travelling somewhere and that would be only alternative.

      I can't find on their site where the FREE accounts can be had....any ideas?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:Replacement? by fusto99 · · Score: 0

      If you choose to sign up, it is in fine print at the bottom for free dialup. Here is a link: http://account.netzero.net/s/landing?action=viewPr oduct&productId=free

    3. Re:Replacement? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Just on the link you sent, and I don't see any fine print at bottom of page, nor a free option. The only ones I see offered are unlimited internet access for $9.95 or a megamail acct. for $9.95 (says first month of this one is free).

      Strange.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Replacement? by generic-man · · Score: 1

      You need to use Windows to get Netzero's free access. I visited their site with Camino and Safari on Mac OS X and saw only paid access. I visited their site with Windows, clicked "Join Now" in the upper right corner, scrolled way to the bottom, and saw a "FREE!" link.

      According to the fine print, the NetZero free service is limited to 10 hours per household per month. Telephone tech support costs $2 per minute.

      --
      For more information, click here.
    5. Re:Replacement? by fusto99 · · Score: 0

      http://www.netzero.net/
      Click Join Now at the top right
      Go to the bottom and click on the Free Internet

    6. Re:Replacement? by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      For $20/month, with SBC DSL going for $14/month (for new customers only, I still have to pay $26.95), I doubt existing customers will switch. But some will switch to the 300Kbps free ad version.

      I wouldn't switch to the $20/month for my desktop because I get a full 1.5Mbps on my DSL, and the $20 only offers 1Mbps. However, once I get a laptop, I definitely would use the 300Kbps free service for email checking and surfing, and maybe the $20/month service for my PC tech support business - it will be nice being able to download software fixes from the Net when the customer's Net connection is down.

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
    7. Re:Replacement? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Ah..that was it...I'm on Linux with Firefox. Wonder why they don't want to offer free dial up for non-windows?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Replacement? by generic-man · · Score: 1

      My guess is that you have to install some kind of adbar that tracks your Internet usage, and the adbar embeds an Internet Explorer control. That's how the first wave of free ISPs worked and that's also how AllAdvantage and related services served you ads for money.

      --
      For more information, click here.
  11. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I agree, but with some thoughts.

    I'm anarcho-capitalist, so I firmly believe that no government is the best form of government that can exist. That being said, I am more against Federal and State governments taking charge for providing services for people, since it is much harder to vote with my feet and exit the bad services (and their costs).

    Yet I also believe that individuals do have a right to select a government within small groups. San Fran is a large city, but I wouldn't live there myself. I think that if the citizens of a town really want to finance this boondoggle (it isn't being provided freely by Earthlink and Google right?), let them do it.

    I wouldn't live in a town with free WiFi. I live in a TINY village 1 hour from Milwaukee and Chicago each. We have 3 cheap WiFi providers in the area (very cheap), we have DSL and we have Cable, and now we have 2 more wired providers who are testing the waters. I see no reason to give free access on the taxpayer's backs.

    I do share my WiFi access point with my neighbors (only one would be considered "not middle class.") as long as they give me their MAC address to filter in. I see no reason why San Fran should be any different -- if you want the poor to have access, pay for your own access and give them access to your router or AP.

  12. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From TFA this deal will cost SF $0. Google and Earthlink will build the network and recoup costs through advertising (Google) and fees (Earthlink). In fact the city will make money by leasing city property for hardware to perch on. I agree in general that "we the parents demand 10% of the state budget go to education under all circumstances" type ballot measures are largely responsible for the fiscal mess in CA. In this case, however, it would appear to be a win-win-lose type situation (for Google/Earthlink - The People - The crappy cable companies)

  13. RTFA please by BobPaul · · Score: 1
    This will cost about $20 a month (based on there other pricing settings)

    From the first sentence:
    San Francisco on Wednesday chose the high-tech team of Google and EarthLink to bring free, wireless Internet access to virtually everyone in the city, possibly by the end of the year.
    (emphasis mine).

    Further down in the article:
    For its part, Google, in Mountain View, intends to provide the free, so-called Wi-Fi access. The service it proposes would be faster than dial-up but slower than a typical broadband connection.

    In its joint bid, Earthlink plans to offer speedier access, but for a fee. No price has been set, but EarthLink plans to charge around $20 a month in other cities where it is negotiating Wi-Fi contracts, including in Philadelphia and Anaheim.


    Google gives free wifi, or you can upgrade the service by paying Earthlink $20/month or so (hasn't been set) if you want a faster connection.

    There's no excuse for not even reading the first sentence of an article that isn't slashdotted. That includes moderators.
    1. Re:RTFA please by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Funny

      You know, there are some cultures in which they don't measure how intelligent you are by what you know or how clear your arguement is, but by how good you are at getting out of looking stupid when you've made a mistake... so here goes... although I was completely wrong and you are completely right, you might be inclined to read what i wrote in such a way that I was saying that the Wifi wouldn't be fast enough for a full time connection unless you bought the upgrade, in which case it does very little to address the ballence... second thoughts... that's what I meant all along

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    2. Re:RTFA please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, no. Nice try though!

    3. Re:RTFA please by uniqueUser · · Score: 1
      You know, there are some cultures in which they don't measure how intelligent you are by what you...
      Speaking of intelligence, may I be the first one to note that this discussion does not contain a debate of ID. Wi-Fi does require some science. Thus, either this is a 10%er or "Martorana's Law" has just been disproven!
      --
      GENERATION 25: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social exper
    4. Re:RTFA please by SumoRoach · · Score: 1

      Nope. you still look stupid.

  14. Wifi for the poor... by Xichekolas · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Chances are that no one will read this because I am languishing in Bad Karma Hell, but just wondering... why provide this great free WiFi in the name of the poor? Did someone miss the fact that you need a computer to get on the net? City wide WiFi is a great idea and all... but it helps the middle class more than anyone. Unless you bundle it with some kind of computer giveaway or those fabled $100 laptops, it's not going to be the 'great internet equalizer' or lead to any kind of social equity...

    --

    Self-referential Sigs are cool on /. these days...

    54

    1. Re:Wifi for the poor... by cinnamoninja · · Score: 1

      Unless you bundle it with some kind of computer giveaway or those fabled $100 laptops, it's not going to be the 'great internet equalizer' or lead to any kind of social equity...

      It's not hard to buy a $100 computer. It's not going to be particular new or (in my opinion) particularly useable, but you can get one.

      Just check craigslist or your local flea market or swap meet. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if computer donation charities get a growth spurt
      because of this wifi program. Check out some links like these for information on donating your own old machines:

      http://www.crc.org/
      http://www.techsoup.org/recycle/donate
      http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Technology/Computers_fo r_Learning_pro.html

      -Cinnamon

    2. Re:Wifi for the poor... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I recently got a 1GHz Athlon with a 256MB of RAM and a 20GB disk. Where did it come from? The local tip. This machine is more than adequate for getting on the Internet. I have been unable to give away machines about half that speed. Desktop machines are practically free these days, unless you want something that is overpowered for 95% of users.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Wifi for the poor... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      why provide this great free WiFi in the name of the poor? Did someone miss the fact that you need a computer to get on the net?

      Well, a dirt cheap computer is under $500 with everything they'd need. Dial-up ranges from $120 to $300 per year, and broadband starts at about $500 (at least around here). With free Internet access, someone could buy a computer and get on the Internet for about the cost of a year of broadband. Sounds like a good deal to me. The lower middle class and upper lower class will be able to put their computers on the Internet, increasing the value of the $400 wal-mart special to $800 because of the free $400 of Internet available.

      Of course it isn't going to cure world hunger. But it will help out people that need it, even if it helps out people that are more well off as well.

    4. Re:Wifi for the poor... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no middle class in San Francisco.

    5. Re:Wifi for the poor... by david_venturi · · Score: 1

      I think that computers are so cheap now the challenge is convincing poor people to buy them instead of other things. Educating people on how a computer can improve your life or potentially help you get a better job will do more then lowering the cost.

    6. Re:Wifi for the poor... by mgblst · · Score: 1

      I call BS. I just went to the local tip, and there wasn't any athlons around. Only these crappy Pentium 1s. Us poor have our pride, you know!

  15. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, if you really belived that you'd be off some place practicing what you're preachin', not hanging out in a country with an actual government. Guess you're not as firm a believer as you think you are.

  16. Re:Lucky! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just think of the poor inner-city youth! How else are they going to be able to jack-off to pr0n? Damn this digital divide!

  17. Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! by wuzzle_wuzzle · · Score: 2, Funny
    --
    "Research is like sex: sometimes something useful is produced, but that's not why we do it." -- Richard Feynman
    1. Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gasp! More reasons to call Google evil!!!!!

    2. Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! by Xochil · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Our mayor in SF, Gavin Newsom, coincidentally enough...is dating a scientologist.

      --Mike

    3. Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! by Dorceon · · Score: 1

      L. Ron already invaded SF. Scientology has a huge building near the TransAmerica pyramid.

      --
      What sound do people on rollercoasters make? Hint: it's not Xbox 360.
    4. Re:Earthlink, a front for $cientology?! by freakmn · · Score: 1

      I think it's better than N. Ron. Then you might have a case for calling Google evil.

      --
      warning: This post is likely to contain gobs of dripping sarcasm. Consume at your own risk.
  18. Just a thought by farker+haiku · · Score: 5, Funny

    I wonder if this will cause a decrease in the number of people who are interested in learning how to hack someone's wireless simply because they want to be able to use a network where ever they go. It'd be interesting if the simple act of making a blanket wifi network for a city caused a distinct lack of interest in hacking wireless.

    disclaimer:
    Yes, by hacking I mean using someone elses tools to break someones WEP or WPA-PSK encrypted network. Is there a word for script kiddying? skidding?

    --
    Your sig(k) has been stolen. There is a puff of smoke!
  19. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    I live a fairly anarcho-capitalist lifestyle. I don't use American dollars for the majority of my income and purchases, I don't have credit cards, bank accounts, mortgages or federally funded income. I attempt to perform as much of my "welfare" through my church and a few charities that I directly volunteer with.

    For the taxes I pay (more out of legal necessity), I find as many loopholes as possible for making sure I'm paying as little as possible.

    The main road in my village is private and funded entirely by the residents through recommended donations rather than taxation. I am investigating buying land to open up a co-op village rather than an incorporated one, but the State works against me every time I bring up the idea. In the long run I'll still do it if I find enough people interested in a property-tax and public-school free village, no matter the Federal law.

    I won't move out of the U.S., but I will make life more difficult for those who love the State. Rather than working to decrease the size of government in your household, you should fully support every program that you want: the best fall of the State is when it has made too many promises to too many people and collapses on its own.

  20. as if! by Thud457 · · Score: 1

    Is that why the baby Bells are fighting for two-tier internet servercice? They're going to give away basic service for free? SWEEET!

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    1. Re:as if! by rewinn · · Score: 1

      Probably not. But that's a different set of facts. RTFA and you'll see.

  21. cheap rooter? by sisina · · Score: 1

    for $20 I would think you could get an ok net connection and a cheap rooter

    Used to be you could get a cheap rooter for $20, but I think Sony quit selling them.

    1. Re:cheap rooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i think he means rooster, i dont think sony sells them either

    2. Re:cheap rooter? by Master+of+Transhuman · · Score: 1

      Check with Roto, they still have them...

      --
      Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
  22. Re:If the public wants Wifi... by vertinox · · Score: 1

    Then by god they should be able to allow to vote for politicians that enact such policies. If the public wishes to not have fiscal responsibility and even vote in socialism into their government, then it is their god given right to do so.

    I'm not saying free WiFi is socialism, but to say the public can't be allowed to have a referendum to pay for public works or elect representatives that cannot do what it wants is not a democracy (plain and simple).

    --
    "I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
    -Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
  23. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You rode the short bus to school, didn't you?

  24. Great, more bad security. by Kenja · · Score: 3, Informative
    Am I the only one that sees the proliferation of WiFi as a major network security problem? Seems you cant go anyplace without being able to find an open wireless network. Someplace around my office has not just an open network, but an open intercontinental network. If I dont turn off the 802.11 function on my laptop I'll see computer systems in tokyo.

    So the problem is thus, people in my office, connected to our LAN are also connected to this wide open network where all sorts of bad things could be roaming free. Windows and MacOS both seem to automaticly connect to these rogue networks and thus bypass any local network security I can enforce.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:Great, more bad security. by lucifuge31337 · · Score: 1

      MacOS both seem to automaticly connect to these rogue networks and thus bypass any local network security I can enforce.

      Huh?
      MacOS can not find the preferred wireless network. Would you like to connect to "linksys"?

      How is that automatically connecting to a rogue AP?

      --
      Do not fold, spindle or mutilate.
    2. Re:Great, more bad security. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My older version of OSX on my iBook just connects. My newer copy that came with my Intel Mini asks. So they seem to have addressed it at least in part. But trying to get my users to not connect their notebooks to the open wifi spots is an unwinnable fight.

    3. Re:Great, more bad security. by Surt · · Score: 1

      Windows XP:
      go to your wireless icon (there are other ways to get where i'm going, this is the one i know): select view available wireless networks.
      in 'related tasks' choose 'change advanced settings' (another way to get to this point, go to network connections, select your wireless network, right click and select properties).

      Go to the wireless networks tab.

      Click advanced.

      Uncheck the box that says 'automatically connect to non-preferred networks'.

      And be sure to remove any networks you don't want to connect to from the existing list.

      --
      "Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
    4. Re:Great, more bad security. by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 1

      Am I the only one that sees the proliferation of WiFi as a major network security problem?

      No. People who fear EM radiation causes cancer are also worried.

      Someplace around my office has not just an open network, but an open intercontinental network. If I dont turn off the 802.11 function on my laptop I'll see computer systems in tokyo.

      You automatically connect to wireless networks with your default setup? You have bigger problems than a city wi-fi program.

      So the problem is thus, people in my office, connected to our LAN are also connected to this wide open network where all sorts of bad things could be roaming free.

      So take control of the machines on your LAN already. If they are desktops you should have them locked down. If they are laptops, you should require authentication before you let them randomly join your network anyway and at that point you can enforce routing all internet through your servers. Have you ever heard of a VPN?

      Windows and MacOS both seem to automaticly connect to these rogue networks and thus bypass any local network security I can enforce.

      Some versions of Windows do, OS X does not in their default configurations. Nothing stops a user with full access to their own machine from using an external network so you should enforce policy. If people are breaking it, set up a wireless honey net and fire anyone who connects. Or just set up your own wireless and LAN and require all access to go through a VPN. Use wireless blocking paint if you have to. It is not like this is an unsolvable problem.

    5. Re:Great, more bad security. by dgrati · · Score: 1

      Interesting thought. $100Laptop+Wifi+Homeless_Living_on_the_street = ? Possible data entry jobs? Possible way to bring out the homeless?

    6. Re:Great, more bad security. by Amouth · · Score: 1

      jsut an fyi.. one of the screwy ways you can help protect your stuff is when you send out DHCP packets including a custom routing table that forces everything to run through your network..

      then on your router block access to the networks that are rogue (if they are routable) and then watch to see who is trying to send to them and go shut them down.

      if you have a computer (windows and mac) with two interfaces and one is dhcp and gets a static routing table for all subnets to it's gateway then when something trys to connect on the rogue interface it will ack back on your interface..

      so unless someone can exploite a UDP hole on the computers rogue interface they can not establish a connection.

      i do this in our small office just so that i can asure people are going out the right router when they go some where but it has the nice sideeffct of screwing the other interfaces while they are on the network.

      --
      '...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
    7. Re:Great, more bad security. by Elwood+P+Dowd · · Score: 1

      > Windows and MacOS both seem to automaticly connect to these rogue networks and thus bypass any local network security I can enforce.

      Put machines that might have wifi on the far end of a DMZ. Wifi isn't magical. There's no hacking with wifi that you couldn't do with an ethernet cable.

      --

      There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
  25. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess that would be an interesting post if it wasn't for the fact that the SF taxpayers aren't paying a dime for this.

  26. Telcos will fight this tooth and nail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Good try! but I'm sure as past posts have mentioned as soon as this thing comes close to being real (ie. the first AP comes online), the Telcos will put pressure on the powers that be to stall , or otherwise get a cut of the action for themselves.. Look at New Orleans and all their strife.. too much entrenched interest are at stake. But its nice to see some cities having the fortitude to try it.. Out of curiosity what is the largest metro wifi in place today?

    1. Re:Telcos will fight this tooth and nail by Day_Is_Never_Finishe · · Score: 1

      I was going to make the same point about New Orleans. The hogs at the trough are not going to let this happen easily. On a side note: Kudos to Greg Meffert, the CIO of New Orleans, for fighting the good fight for free wireless access...even if it is only 512Kb.

    2. Re:Telcos will fight this tooth and nail by angelasmark · · Score: 1

      hmmmm... I'm sensing a theme here... Guess who New Orleans approached to take over their wifi network....so sayeth the official EarthLink blog... the telcos can't really complain much if the private company runs the network for profit... http://blogs.earthlink.net/2006/03/saving_wifi_in_ new_orleans.php

  27. Not good news by drwho · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The Google/Earthlink deal is not good for consumers: The use of proprietary technologies and hand-picked 'competitors' promise nothing more than another tightly controlled network. So now there will be Cable, DSL, and Googlink. Whoop-de-doo - the illusion of freedom.

    It would have been better to implement something like RoofNet, which is fully open source and runs on off-the-shelf components. It's high performance, well tested, and in use here in Cambridge. There will be some add-ons to it made by my company, XA Networks, but compatibility with the open-source software is guaranteed.

  28. Re:Grilled Deviled Chickens with Sauce by Soporific · · Score: 1

    Might be off topic but it sounds good and I think I'm going to try it.

    ~S

  29. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    If you had read the article you'd realize that the city is not paying a dime, but actually making money from the project. Google and Earthlink are footing the bill to get a foothold, actually paying money to the city to rent space for the towers. Google wants to pump out more ads and Earthlink wants subscribers.

    Win, win and win situation.

  30. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by nelsonal · · Score: 1

    Does your village use barter or do you print your own currency or use something with more intrinsic value like gold/silver? Do you have banking? That's interesting, I'm not quite to anarcho-capitalism, but closer to what I like than most systems of organization.

    --
    Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
  31. But what happened to "do no evil"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from the article:

    Google executives have said that they consider the project an experiment for testing online advertising based on where a user is located.

    So people wig out because rfid's in products threaten to expose your whereabouts and to make it easier for companies to spam you everywhere you go, but then Google proposes to do exactly the same thing (though in a more limited context) and everyone says "it's a natural"? Google is in it for the bucks, and if they can leverage our tax dollars to provide themselves with a "free" advertising channel, they are going for it. How is this not evil? Can the cities proposal be changed to not allow advertisements from the vendors, after all, once they chose, they're locked in right (which means that WE, the taxpayer is now locked in).

    1. Re:But what happened to "do no evil"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Google is in it for the bucks, and if they can leverage our tax dollars to provide themselves with a "free" advertising channel, they are going for it. How is this not evil?


      I'm Fidel Castro's left nut, and I approve of this message.
    2. Re:But what happened to "do no evil"? by catprog · · Score: 1

      RTFA Google and Earthlink are paying the govement so that they can install equipment that they brought by themselves. Total cost to tax payers $0

      --
      My Transformation Website
      Kindle Books http://www.catprog.org/rev
      Interactive CYOA http://www.catprog.org/st
  32. Score another for L. Ron Hubbard by Kittyglitter · · Score: 1
    As a former Earthlink employee (I know, who isn't these days) I can tell you first hand that there is no Scientology propaganda in the break rooms, despite the President being a strong beliver in its, um...benefits.

    However...

    Half of Hollywood already follows his UFO religion displayed by poster boy Tom Cruise. His Austrian convert is worming his way into more and more govenment workings. Now his followers are taking over the wireless waves. We really should have seen this coming.

    I can't help but wonder what plans for California are being devised in a well lit, non-smoking, board room before heading out to a safe night spot for an all night not-drinking binge.

  33. Big names deep pockets etc. by Baldrson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It is really funny seeing Google playing the "big name with deep pockets" game so soon after their IPO. So much for "great technology with insightful capital".

    I put together the technical end of the first municiple mesh in the US using LocustWorld meshboxes. It happened only because I moved out of silicon valley to a small town with no municiple bureaucracy to schmooze up. There were just some folks who wanted wireless for tourists coming through their town and we even got it set up so the local ISP didn't get put out of business by the tax subsidy. They took some bids from guys that had no "pockets" or "marquee" at all, and got a solution. I look around at the solemn rhetoric about the wireless mesh in New Orleans subsequent to Katrina, and the rhetoric about rich and poor in San Francisco's wireless access and just thank my lucky stars I'm out here with a bunch of "inbred hicks who don't know what leading edge technology is."

  34. holy crap, what's the fat content on this?!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Nasty troll, isn't it bad enough that most slashdotters are fat and sedentary as it is? Do you really have to be giving out such heart-unhealthy recipes?!! Why not just suggest they mainline the butter right into an artery?!!!

    Some heart-healthy recipe trolls, please.

  35. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by drwho · · Score: 1
    If you are an anarcho-capitalist, that sounds almost like a Libertarian. In which case, you may want to check out The Free State Project - and move to New Hampshire.

    Back on the topic at hand: I too am wary of government money being spent in this way. But if the money is going to be spent, I'd rather it be spent to build the network that is the least offensive to my libertarian sensibilities as possible.

    What we're calling, alternately, 'User-Driven Infrastructure Development' or 'Bring Your Own Router', is a minimal city backbone mesh network, with the majority of the coverage being provided by users buying and installing their own equipment. Want to extend the mesh down your street? Go buy a $100 mesh router, put it in your window, and plug it in. Your neighbor can get onto the mesh using your router, but maybe in her house the signal is only available in one room...so she goes out and buys a mesh router, places it in that one room, and extends the signal throughout her house and to the next street over, where the other guy has a week signal, so he goes out to the store....

    You get the idea. There's a lot of refinements that can be made to make it work faster, have better coverage, etc. I am not going to go over them here. This is all built on the high-quality, open-source mesh networking technology RoofNet, which can run on commodity hardware. I am doing some improvements to it and building mesh routers for rooftops, etc. You can do the same. Excuse me while I tout my business, but you may be interested, and it is relevant: XA Networks.

    As I mentioned in another post on article, we are building this for the City of Cambridge (of which Boston is a suburb). I've also sold equipment to other places in the US, Africa, and India. It's good, cheap technology...and it's NOT PROPRIETARY!

  36. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Mr.+Underbridge · · Score: 1

    I think that if the citizens of a town really want to finance this boondoggle (it isn't being provided freely by Earthlink and Google right?), let them do it. R.T.F.A.

  37. Re:Lucky! by TheDreadSlashdotterD · · Score: 1

    So the basic tally on our rights comes to: WiFi Pr0n trash Okay, I can live with that.

    --
    I have nothing to say.
  38. Come to Berkeley! by eudean · · Score: 1

    We students are getting reamed by Comcast. Give us some free WiFi over here!

    1. Re:Come to Berkeley! by goldspider · · Score: 2, Funny

      Imagine that; someone from Berkely calling a tax-funded government service "free".

      --
      "Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
    2. Re:Come to Berkeley! by walt-sjc · · Score: 1

      Nice troll, but the truth is that this project is not tax-funded. In fact, google / earthlink will be leasing antenna location space from the city, generating revenue for SF. Google / Earthlink intend to pay for the whole thing from ad revenue.

  39. Missing The Point by totalbasscase · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nobody's saying every resident of San Francisco needs to cancel their broadband and use Googlink. It's just convenient. I can't wait for the day if/when a similar project comes to fruition in NYC, and I can just open my laptop wherever I want and be online. It's a freedom students enjoy on college campuses that we start to take for granted... until we get home for the summer. And it's a bummer.

    People can keep their Comcast or Verizon or whoever does their high-speed at home... but now your local municipality provides access to the sum total of the world's information wherever you want it. About damn time.

    --
    Fragging my father since 2004
    1. Re:Missing The Point by wuffalicious · · Score: 1

      Ahh, dormatory networks. If this wifi network is anything like mine, I'll have to go around replacing people's background images with:

      "This is a test. This is only a test. If you are reading this message, you should probably change your network sharing permissions. You know... so amateur weirdos like me aren't able to have our way with your machine. Had this not been a test, you'd probably be looking at gay porn right now."

  40. Addresing the balance by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    This is free and apparently better than dial-up. I know a few low-income people on dial-up, so this might address the balance, but my experience is in New Castle, IN and not San Francisco, CA.

  41. big shock by macsox · · Score: 1

    Not a huge surprise -- San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsome is good friends with Larry and Sergei.

  42. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    I convert all my paper money into gold and silver immediately upon receiving it. I use gold and silver to purchase almost 30% of my goods right now, and I hope to make it 50% by year's end. You'd be amazed at the amount of local business owners who will take gold and silver at a HUGE discount over retail, I even found 2 gas station owners who will let me buy unleaded with gold and silver (at spot price).

    For banking, I don't. I DO have a paypal account, and I also have a green dot debit card that I only fill with dollars if I need to buy something online. I am currently looking into investing in a bank that performs ALL transactions in grains of gold that the depositor owns -- converting to and from dollars on the fly at the current buy price of gold or silver.

    It is not easy living this way, but it is VERY profitable. Because I transfer all my dollars into hard money right away (except for paying the basic utilities), I am very controlled in spending. I cut my salary almost 50% over 5 years but I am wealthier today than I have ever been in terms of security and ability to do what I want to do rather than what I have to do. I posted about it at my gold investment forum.

    I still have employees who expect dollars, but they get their share before I pay my dividend. I've found some possible tax loopholes that help getting paid directly in gold or silver, but I am still in the process of verifying it with the IRS, so I am paying full tax on the true value rather than the US Mint value.

    The way I like to call Anarcho-capitalism is "Life a la carte." I'm always surprised that people here want Cable TV channels a la carte and they want software a la carte, too, but they're happy accepting pre-packaged government services.

  43. Re:If the public wants Wifi... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then by god they should be able to allow to vote for politicians that enact such policies. If the public wishes to not have fiscal responsibility and even vote in socialism into their government, then it is their god given right to do so.

    Many towns, cities and municipalities have publicly owned and operated electricity, telephone or cable-TV systems, not to mention publicly owned and operated water, sewage and public-works departments, but I've never heard anyone say that any of those are "a basic human right."

    If San Francisco wants city-wide. "affordable" Wi-Fi service, hey, more power to them; but calling it "a basic human right" elevates it from a luxury to a necessity and even implies that if San Francisco can't pay for it, then the state or federal government should pay for it.

    On the other hand, The Register is a notorious rumour mill.

  44. AOL by na641 · · Score: 1

    Damn... i was hoping AOL would win that deal. *shakes fist

  45. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by darjen · · Score: 1
    I think the State already has more promises than it can ever hope to fulfill. The people living on the handouts just haven't realized it yet. It's only a matter of time until the credit bubble bursts and it falls under its own weight.

    I also don't want to move out of the US. I think when people say you should move if you don't like it are totally missing the point. This is my home and it's much better to stay and try to make things better.

    So, I guess we should actually vote for every single tax increase and restraint on freedom that gets proposed...

  46. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by planetmn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think that if the citizens of a town really want to finance this boondoggle (it isn't being provided freely by Earthlink and Google right?), let them do it.

    And from the article:
    Both companies would share the cost of installing the necessary equipment, estimated at up to $12 million. San Francisco will pay nothing and actually reap some fees by leasing city property as perches for Wi-Fi antennas.

    We have 3 cheap WiFi providers in the area (very cheap), we have DSL and we have Cable, and now we have 2 more wired providers who are testing the waters. I see no reason to give free access on the taxpayer's backs.

    See above. Also, most people don't have those options. Most people, have the access to cable modem, some have access to DSL or other methods. But in most of the country, many choices don't exist. Also, most of these services are available because the companies were allowed right-of-way access to install the infrastructure. Access mandated by, you guessed it, the government.

    Since you are an "anarcho-capitalist" (does this mean that if your house is on fire you don't call and use the services of the fire department? If it snows, do you make sure not to drive on the roads that the gov't plows?) You should love this idea. It is capitalism at it's best, companies competing to provide a service to consumers, at no cost to the government, nor the user.

    -dave

    --
    /., where "Apple and Google provide Iran with nukes" will be refuted with "But Microsoft is a convicted monopolist"
  47. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    If you are an anarcho-capitalist, that sounds almost like a Libertarian. In which case, you may want to check out The Free State Project - and move to New Hampshire.

    I used to consider myself Libertarian but the Libertarian Party proved to me that they're all about power in politics and libertarians in office are easily corrupted. Now I vote very differently and for different reasons.

    I believe the right actions for someone are not to vote or change government but to make real changes in their own lives -- be a beacon. In my church, I don't throw money around (although I do tithe between 20-50% of my income) but I spend time with people. I believe church is helping a guy fix his car or helping an old lady shovel her drive or helping a neighbor kid learn math. That is how I make a difference, not by voting or paying a charity to do work I should do.

    I'm a big fan of the mesh networking idea, and I believe fully that the biggest problem with getting more bandwidth out there is the FCC. I wish they would vacate the airwaves and let the free market use the airwaves for moving more information as it is needed (a la carte style).

  48. so much for "Do no Evil." by slashpot · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    If Google is teaming w/ Earthlink on anything - then their do no evil maxim is shot.

    Earhlink sucks - they are one of the most evil ISPs on the planet. I can't even count the number of friends and family I know who got screwed in Atlanta when Earthlink swallowed Mindspring, and then over the course of a few years fired everybody worth a shit and outsourced all the support, most of the networking, and the majority of the well paid unix and developer jobs to shitty incompetent counterparts in India. They PR'd it as becoming a globably supporting company while at the same time everyone even in upper management (what was left of it) was cussing Sprint's greedy ass exec teams for killing everything Mindspring had worked to build.

    Earthlink is Evil - Google doing Earthlink is the same as Google doing Evil.

    1. Re:so much for "Do no Evil." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This situation reminds me of an episode of transformers. In it, the mad chaos-bringer Unicron awakes, and in doing so threatens the existance of all.
      Optimus Prime realises the extent of the threat, and surrenders his Autobots to the Decepticons, his sworn enemy and a thoroughly bad set of blokes. In doing so he shows maturity and leadship in putting aside his differences for the sake of the greater good.

      I guess what I'm saying is that you can't brand someone evil for siding with an "evil" company. Whatever Earthlink did wrong, and whatever profit they're doing it for, doesn't matter. If the project is an honest one, surely Google have every right to be a part of it.

    2. Re:so much for "Do no Evil." by slashpot · · Score: 1

      Yeah - I kinda see your point - I think the nazi's using forced slave jew labour to build Volkswagens was evil - but I still own and love a VW.

  49. don't they already have it? by squison · · Score: 2, Funny

    Doesn't San Fran already have WiFi everywhere? I mean.. there's 108 Starbucks within a 10-mile radius..

  50. Did he actually say that? by leoxx · · Score: 1

    The Register is not exactly known for accuracy in reporting and yet again it sounds like they sexed up what he actually said, which was "No San Franciscan should be without a computer and a broadband connection.". That hardly sounds like he is calling it a "human right".

  51. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    So, I guess we should actually vote for every single tax increase and restraint on freedom that gets proposed...

    That's what I've been pondering. I won't vote or support any increase or decrease, any addition or subtraction, just for the simple fact that Congress doesn't read the bills it votes for, and often times the bills contain more pork barrel spending than "fixing" of problems. I just find ways to extricate myself from the dollar and government services, and I support lawsuits against government as often as possible. I figured if 1 million freedom lovers would each spend US$1000 a year and hire our own law firm permanently, we could continuously file lawsuits against every government agency for the slightest constitution (State or National) violation. Keep THEM bottled up in lawsuits and they will leave us alone. Or go bankrupt fighting them.

  52. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    You're right, I didn't realize it was provided for by private companies, in which case I thin there is merit if it wasn't for the fact that the city of San Francisco had to protect the monopoly of service. Just because taxpayers don't pay for it doesn't mean that it is best for the taxpayers if only one company (or partnership in this case) provides a service.

    Nothing is free. If the city will be making money leasing to these two, why don't they lease to anyone who wants entry? Why does the city have to lease anything, how about letting coffee shops and copy stores and private citizens offer it freely at no cost to anyone, not even Google and Earthlink?

  53. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by darjen · · Score: 1
    I figured if 1 million freedom lovers would each spend US$1000 a year and hire our own law firm permanently, we could continuously file lawsuits against every government agency for the slightest constitution (State or National) violation. Keep THEM bottled up in lawsuits and they will leave us alone. Or go bankrupt fighting them.

    They would probably send their security thugs after us and make our life generally difficult. Going bankrupt might be the most likely result. Even a billion dollars a year can't hope to match the resource of taxes stolen from 260 million people. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have a feeling that money would be better spent in assisting the poor and helpless living in streets and ghettos. We could probably gain a large following through charity. Basically, rather than fight the government, pour our resources into beating it at what it's supposed to do.

  54. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by dada21 · · Score: 1

    Which is actually how I love my life :) I spend about 20-40% of my monthly income on direct tithing support for people in my community, and almost 2 days a week doing the same. The best form of outreach is to truly help someone who is ready to be helped. My primary dislike of government is not helping people but teaching them to be needy. Those who go to government when they have needs are those who will never need my help.

  55. Google WiFi Beta by aplusjimages · · Score: 1

    How cool would it be to see the WiFi signs around town with the tiny Google Beta logo underneath.

    --
    Can I bum a sig?
  56. How the Bay Area works by heroine · · Score: 1

    These startup executives seem completely intent on raising publicity by announcing these grand wireless projects but have never made them happen and their location is so far away from the population that they're never used.

    San Francisco is a tourist attraction. No-one actually lives there or works there and no-one is going to use a wireless network there. Most of the population lives in the east bay and works in the south bay. That's where a wireless network would be most valuable, but saying you're installing a wireless network in San Ramon just doesn't have the appeal that saying it's in San Francisco has.

  57. Have-nots must have by natedubbya · · Score: 1
    The project, championed by Mayor Gavin Newsom, is intended to boost the city's technology credentials and help bridge the digital divide between the Internet haves and have-nots.

    Of course, the have-nots are going to need to *have* a computer to make use of this technology. Most of the have-nots do not-have a computer, let alone a wireless laptop that tends to be more expensive than a desktop. I love when mayors pretend to bridge the gap, but instead grow the gap.


    1. Re:Have-nots must have by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wireless desktops exist too...and for fairly cheap.

  58. internet access = infrastructure of infosociety by barutanseijin · · Score: 1

    It takes one hour to get to either Chicago or Milwaukee from your seignoral estate? On private roads? Or perhaps you're taking I-90 or 94, US12 or 14, state and/or county roads? And please refrain from using the courts and police to enforce your contracts. Finally, please don't hire anyone who isn't an auto-didact. Don't want any of your serfs tainted by state ideology.

    Seriously, though, what's the difference between the state providing basic infrastructure such as roads and informational infrastructure such as literacy and internet access?

  59. I Saw the Proposals... by Sarusa · · Score: 1

    I saw the proposals for this (they were all publically available on the website), and I must say the Google/Earthlink proposal was definitely the best looking proposal as far as being polished. They'd obviously put some serious work and time on it, while the other proposals mostly looked like some guy did them in Word one night. And a few were seriously ratty. If you were going for professionalism and thought that the proposal was a good indicator of what you might expect, then Google/Earthlink was the easy choice even if they weren't the big names they are.

    I realize this has nothing whatsoever to do with the merits of the actual deployment, but I bet it had quite a strong effect.

  60. Killer App: VoIP by LeDopore · · Score: 1

    If enough cities build free wireless networks, I wouldn't be surprised if people started tossing out their 20$/month landlines altogether. The next thing I want is a city-sponsored PBX system, so we wouldn't have to pay that much for SkypeOut in order to let people phone from a POTS system. (Actually I would be happy with the adoption of open standards for VoIP and PBX systems so Skype couldn't leverage a virtual monopoly over us. I'm telling you: I use Skype, but I hope that it will fall one of these days so we can have some open-standards competition goodness.)

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    Expected time to finish is 1 hour and 60 minutes.
  61. Mmmm....ideologically conflicted by Nemus · · Score: 1

    On the one hand, I'm a conservative. Small government, stay the hell out of my way. On the other hand, basic communications (internet, telephone, and dare I say it, cell) should be available to anyone cheap and fair. As a capitalist, I see the opportunities for a greater chance ofnew jobs in the sector, if privatived, yet on the other hand, if privatived, a problem with the whole "cheap and fair," part. The other part that worries me is that all of these ciies (New Orleans, Seattle, San Fran) are all doing this independant of any overarching standards, beyond those set by the technologies themselves. One would think that there would need to be some state/federal regulation on the matter, but then my conservative gene starts itching.....Oh well, hail, mighty conondrum!

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    Mod Points: Helping you keep your opinion to yourself.
  62. Feeva by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If anyone is interested - they will most likely (they used them with the Mountain View WiFi offering) use http://www.feeva.com/index.html Feeva to supply the localised content/advertising.

    I for one am interested to see how the model will work - and how many users they get in the first few months...

    Now if only Google would open up some of that dark fibre they keep buying up...

    Ele

  63. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course you wouldn't have realized that. That would have meant reading the article.

  64. yarr, mateys by rakerman · · Score: 1
    "with marque names"

    Does this mean they have been given Letters of Marque?

    Let the privateering begin!

  65. Are there poor living in San Francisco? by The+New+Stan+Price · · Score: 0

    Last I checked, it costs quite a bit to live even near San Francisco. I've noticed homeless people there, but are there really poor people living in San Francisco?

  66. Why WIFI when 1 meg ca be had with Cingular today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cingular has already rolled out Bay area wide HSDPA for $20 a month
    so who needs spotty Wifi?? A waste of time considering the 1 meg throughput with Cingular.

    Sineira

  67. Re:Free speech, freedom of religion, and... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nothing is free. If the city will be making money leasing to these two, why don't they lease to anyone who wants entry? Why does the city have to lease anything, how about letting coffee shops and copy stores and private citizens offer it freely at no cost to anyone, not even Google and Earthlink?

    Because, as you just said Nothing is free. You want the coffee shops and copy stores to offer it? Who pays for their routers? If not the coffee shops or the t axpayers, then who? Linksys gives it 'for free' (meaning they pay for it by losing profits)? Who pays for the ISP/Data transfer costs? If not the copy stores or the taxpayers, then the ISPs (meaning the lose money, clogging their pipes that they could be selling instead)?

    As you yourself admit, nothing is free. As an 'anarco-capitalist' you know this. The only reason those coffee shops and copy stores offer their free wifi is because it's a value to the customer, one they hope will lure more customers to their stores and thus make them more money.

    That's capitalism. Money. And ESPECIALLY in a government-less, pure capitalism run society, NOTHING is free.

  68. Jumped the shark by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google has jumped the shark.