The Forgotten Apple CEO

Sabah Arif writes "Michael Spindler was supposed to be the savior of Apple. After four years at Apple, he was an executive vice president and had built Apple Europe to the point where it was providing 25% of Apple's revenues. Just the same, at the end of the day Spindler couldn't handle the stress or control the Apple organization. Low End Mac has an extensive biography of this figure in Apple's History." From the article: "Apple Europe ran out of a cramped 100 ft. office in Brussels and had only a few employees. Spindler had never worked at the startup before, but he liked it a lot. He had freedom to try almost anything he wanted. There were problems with working for such a young company, though. Spindler went without payment for almost six months because Apple didn't know how to move funds from California to Belgium."

Comments

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[Anonymous Coward]

Serious. Are you high?

Spindler was ahead of his time

[Saven Marek]

I said it once and I'll say it again Spindler was a man ahead of his time. His methods did not suit the old apple of the time 100% but I can see his sense of strategy working in the current climate at apple. Even the iPod would be better off if treated like the newtons, something the purists wouldn't like but would lead to better for the company

for what I see Jobs ideas is getting old and they wont keep apple up together. Watch what happens when in a year from now apple hand out press releases to another Special Event and nobody turns up. Spindler had this long term strategy and Jobs sadly lacking there.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[AKAImBatman]

for what I see Jobs ideas is getting old and they wont keep apple up together. Watch what happens when in a year from now apple hand out press releases to another Special Event and nobody turns up. Spindler had this long term strategy and Jobs sadly lacking there.

So, Jobs' strategy of meeting the market's needs before they realize they have those needs is not a long term strategy? Methinks that you need a serious reality check.

Putting aside Spindlers abilities, Jobs has shown explosive growth in BOTH companies he currently acts as CEO for. (Apple and Pixar.) Under his reign, BOTH companies have continued to produce products that have continually upped their market share. Under Jobs, BOTH companies have continued this upward climb for decades. Sure, Jobs' tenure was broken up, but while he was CEO the company has always thrived.

Love him or hate him (probably some of both), he does a bang up job as an executive leader. There's no one I would trust more at the helm of Apple. Or any other company, for that matter.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Elwood P Dowd]

A year from now? Unless you're trying to say that Jobs is going to die immediately... no, that still doesn't make any sense.

You might have a good point, but that level of hyperbole makes it hard to follow. Maybe you're talking about like... five or ten or twenty years from now, in which case I have no idea where you're coming up with your speculation, but whatever.

What would be improved for the iPod by more Newton-like treatment?

God, I'm so lost here.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[ktappe]

Watch what happens when in a year from now apple hand out press releases to another Special Event and nobody turns up.

You're kidding, right? The exact opposite is currently happening. Earlier this week Apple quietly released Boot Camp and the industry has been going absolutely gaga over it. AAPL jumped nearly 10% on this product alone. Imagine the type of press if it'd been released at a Jobs dog & pony show. There is absolutely no sign that Steve's reality distortion field is weakening in the slightest. On the contrary; it seems to be working even when he doesn't show up. Apple's mojo is stronger than ever. I don't know what company you were referring to in your post, but it sure wasn't Apple.

-Kurt

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Jeffrey Baker]

Under Jobs, Apple has only once, in the most recent quarter, surpassed Gil Amelio's revenue record. I think a fair way to look at Jobs is that he's a company builder and marketer whose ability to actually produce economic results is approximately on par with the best CEO from Apple's history.

Now, the Pixar thing, that was visionary. Jobs bought the company from its founder and previous owners for a song. That was a nice piece of dealing.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[jcr]

Under Jobs, Apple has only once, in the most recent quarter, surpassed Gil Amelio's revenue record.

It's much easier to have high revenues than record profits. I'll take Jobs over Amelio any day of the week.

-jcr

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Austerity Empowers]

The only "old" idea that makes no sense is that Apple is a hardware company. Beyond that hope, they're pretty successful with Jobs. Some would say he breathed new life into a company that was doomed.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Walking Dude]

Actually, Lucas wanted more money but his divorce forced him to sell. Still would have been a song at the price he sold it for. However, there is no reason to believe Lucas would have built it into the same company.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh i'll trust Warren Buffet before Jobs, thank you. And Warren Buffet's first pick is Bill Gates.

ha!

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I somehow don't think Ice Age with Jar Jar Binks in it would have been quite the same movie...

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Wasn't Spindler the one who cut a deal with Microsoft, licensing them to use "parts of the GUI" that later cost the company BILLIONS from lost revenue if Apple had won their court cases against M$ for STEALING the GUI. A judge ruled that since Apple had licensed parts of the GUI for use in Microsoft Word for Mac, that entitled them to use it anywhere they wanted to, even a WHOLE FUCKING OS (Windows 1.0)!!!

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[AKAImBatman]

From Wikipedia:

During Amelio's tenure, Apple's stock hit a 12-year low, and in the second quarter of 1997, the company lost $708 million. Amelio was widely criticized as lacking vision and marketing ability. Many did not appreciate his "wooziness" (Ed Fullenmauker 1997). Board member Ed Woolard announced his termination on July 4, 1997, and Amelio left the company the next day. He was replaced by Steve Jobs.

Showing a 10 year graph on BigCharts, reveals that the peak of the stock price is in 2006.

2005 revenues were 13.93 billion, whereas the historical revenues for Amelio's time show a peak of 11 billion.

I don't know where you're getting your information, but I certainly can't corroborate it.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[bryan_chow]

Now, the Pixar thing, that was visionary. Jobs bought the company from its founder and previous owners for a song. That was a nice piece of dealing.

But remember, when Steve Jobs bought it it was just a small special effects shop, certainly not the Pixar we know today.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[MsGeek]

I said it once and I'll say it again Spindler was a man ahead of his time.

Gott in himmel, you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

Herr Spindler almost augured Apple into the ground. More Road Apples came out during his regime than any other CEO of Apple.

It took the combined heavy lifting of Gil Amelio (the true unsung hero who saved Apple from the shitter) and The Steve to get Apple out of the rut Spindler put it in. Sculley sent it on this trajectory, but it was Spindler who put it into a power dive.

Spindler's place in Apple history is assured: the guy who nearly killed the company.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know what company you were referring to in your post, but it sure wasn't Apple.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to Apple Music. It's so easy to confuse the two.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[vought]

Under Jobs, Apple has only once, in the most recent quarter, surpassed Gil Amelio's revenue record.

Respectfully, I have to wonder aloud if you aren't one of the better trolls on Slashdot.

I worked for Spindler, Amelio and Jobs.

Spindler shipped a LOT of product, and under him, the confusing gobbledygook of naming conventions like "Performa 6225" was born. Now, if you can tell me the difference between Performa 6220 and a 6225 off the top of your head...imagine what it was like in support when Apple had 40-some odd machines based on four logic boards and varying form factors, markets...

Actually, it was a lot like HP/Compaq's naming conventions these days - mention a product name, and you had to go look up the feature list, which sub-species of logic board, what processor speed, disk capacity, etc - and some machines had quiet revisions. A far cry from the 2X2 product matrix Jobs introduced and far removed even from today's multi-market, multi-tier product line.

Under Spindler, Apple shipped a lot of product though. Unfortunately, they were declining very fast in quality because Spindler was racing to the bottom, commanding engineering to ship low-cost products on schedule no matter the quality.

I remember the KROM (Apple sales comm. "radio show") tape in which the PowerBook product manager proudly crowed about how the 5300 series was going to ship on time, with features no PC laptop had. For the next eight years, Apple was replacing those machines - every 5300 took at least one ride to the service depot (I'm not exaggerating) and a great deal of them were repaired multiple times or outright replaced...with another 5300 that had bugs and needed repair. The product didn't actually work until six months after it shipped - and after it was already EOL'd. Thanks, Mike "Diesel" Spindler!

Spindler is best forgotten. Underhim we got the PowerBook 5300, Performa 52 and 62xx series, the Performa 6400 series, crappy peripherals that took several replacements at times to get a working unit, etc.

Amelio was the "fix it guy" who was supposed to turn us around with motivational talks, koffee klatches (yes, I really did work there) and a management team that included Silicon Valley's best...or at least the best who weren't smart enough to be working for startup Internet companies like Yahoo, Lycos, etc.

He flat-out told us during a comm meeting that we were stupid and lazy and generally tried to be the strict daddy for a company of people that he thought were just lazy slobs - people who, if they'd just cut their hair and wear a tie would somehow make the company sing again.

Needless to say, this didn't go over well with employees. Thank God Fred managed to eke a $25 Million profit one quarter from those "record revenues" Amelio generated. Apple was taking in lots of money - sure - just like a drowning person takes in a lot of water.

Fred and Steve were the only guys Amelio hired that ended up doing much good for Apple. Fred cut costs by NOT laying everyone off at once (this was after March 17, 1997) and Steve had the balls to knock a few walls out of our haunted mansion and start renovating.

Apple today may not sell as many computers, but they're far more influential and relevant because Jobs returned - and you can give Amelio that kudo if you want.

Under Jobs, Apple has only once, in the most recent quarter, surpassed Gil Amelio's revenue record. I think a fair way to look at Jobs is that he's a company builder and marketer whose ability to actually produce economic results is approximately on par with the best CEO from Apple's history.

Or, you could look at it this way: Amelio was so inept at fixing the damage Spindler wrought, stood by while the clone makers whupped Apple's ass, and drove so many smart people from the company that it has taken Jobs this much time and almost ten years' worth of focussed engineering effort to regain the former revenue level.

Perhaps it makes more sense when you consider that we were

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[JulesLt]

That's one keynote I'd have loved to have seen. 'Right guys, I need to stage this so that Powerpoint crashes right in the middle of my presentation, but it looks like it's Windows fault not Apple'.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Lars T.]

Spindler shipped a LOT of product, and under him, the confusing gobbledygook of naming conventions like "Performa 6225" was born. Now, if you can tell me the difference between Performa 6220 and a 6225 off the top of your head...imagine what it was like in support when Apple had 40-some odd machines based on four logic boards and varying form factors, markets...

Come on, off the top of your head, tell me the differences between the 1999 iMac DV and iMac SE (apart from color), and those from 2000. How about the difference between the iBook and the iBook?

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[vought]

Come on, off the top of your head, tell me the differences between the 1999 iMac DV and iMac SE (apart from color), and those from 2000. How about the difference between the iBook and the iBook?

The DV SE had a faster processor, bigger disk, and more memory. It also had a major differentiator that Performas didn't: COLOR.

Why should I neglect to mention that it was the only graphite-colored iMac when that's the chief difference? Architecture is the same, specs vary slightly, but all the same pieces are there; with Performas, you never really were sure if the 6225 had an external Global Village modem connected to the serial port or an Apple modem card and a rubber plug in the serial port. Apple played no such configuration games with the iMac. iMacs came with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and computer. They all came with modem, ethernet, and USB. From the DV on, they also had firewire - and you could immediately tell exactly what generation of iMac it was, (if not the revision) by looking at the freaking case from 20 feet away.

Try that with a Performa.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[AgNO3]

uh He is no longer the CEO of Pixar because uh He sold pixar to Disney. He is now the single largest indivual share holder in Diney now with 7% or disney stock.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[squiggleslash]

I'm not sure I really understand the above.

USB didn't come out until the late nineties, it's hardly Spindler's fault earlier Macs didn't come with it. Your other complaint seems to be that the 622X might have any one of multiple third party peripherals added to it. While it may seem "odd" in 2006 for a computer not to have a built-in modem... ahhhhh... well perhaps not, but let's go with the pretence... modems were still relatively rare peripherals in the early nineties. An iMac, be it a Bondi Blue or an Intel, may have a variety of manufacturer's MP3 player or DV camera plugged into it.

Now, it's true, the Internet was just taking off around about the last year of Spindler and in the 95-96 timescale that this range of Performas was released, much to the surprise of virtually everyone. Most companies misstepped at that point, and more to the point were in the learning stage about what worked and what didn't. The iMac is the result of that learning process, it quite simply is not a machine anyone would have designed in 1995, whether they worked for Apple, Dell, IBM, or anyone else.

I don't know enough to comment on Spindler generally, but I think this criticism is unwarranted. Indeed, as criticisms go, it suggests Jobs is a little overrated - his entry as iCEO and then CEO co-incided with Apple being ready to use their experiences of the previous three or four years to design better products. This would seem to be backed up by the fact that the iMac, which clearly influenced everything Apple has done since, was designed and more or less ready before Jobs took over.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Mainusch]

Jobs is getting old? He's 51. That's "old?"

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, Pixar didn't have anything to do with Ice Age.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[AKAImBatman]

I'm not sure I really understand the above. USB didn't come out until the late nineties, it's hardly Spindler's fault earlier Macs didn't come with it.

His point is that current Macs are easily identifiable by their hardware options. Instead of having massive matrices of complex features, Apple takes the stance of putting everything into the machine that belongs in a given price range. That means that you can look at an iBook, and unequivically say, "That's the 2 USB model running a G3 processor, and originally OS X 10.2." This makes several things a lot easier:

* Easier to produce hardware periperals for (e.g. memory upgrades, Wifi cards, etc.)
* Easier for customers to find the periperal they're looking for
* Easier to support
* Easier to produce parts for
* Easier to test software across all models
* Easier for customers to find the model they want, since only the MAJOR feature vary.
* Just all around easier for everyone involved.

modems were still relatively rare peripherals in the early nineties.

I'm not quite sure where you get that idea. Modems have been common since the 80's, especially once Compuserve took off. Those who weren't business users tended to use modems for accessing BBSes and public access computers. The Internet may not have caught on until around '94-'95, but there were a number of uses for modems before that. Leaving modems off their machines was a huge mistake.

This would seem to be backed up by the fact that the iMac, which clearly influenced everything Apple has done since,

1. The only thing left over from the iMac is the name. Apple has moved to very different designs that focus on ease of use and only the necessary options. The iMac was the first step toward today's designs, but it's incredibly different than what Apple puts out now.

2. The iMac was developed after Jobs returned to Apple. From Wikipedia:

Steve Jobs streamlined the company's large and confusing product lines immediately after becoming Apple's interim CEO in 1997; towards the end of the year, Apple trimmed its line of desktop Macs down to the beige Power Macintosh G3 series. Having discontinued the consumer-targeted Performa series, Apple needed a replacement for the Performa's price point. The company announced the iMac on May 7, 1998, and started shipping the iMac on August 15 of that year. The launch of the iMac was a landmark event for its time, and had a massive impact on both the company and the computer industry.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

The iMac was developed after Jobs returned to Apple

Not quite. It was announced, says your Wikipedia article, in May '98. I think Jobs might have had something to do with getting the iMac out the door, but it was certainly developed under Amelio's reign.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[AKAImBatman]

but it was certainly developed under Amelio's reign.

Says who? Jobs was back at Apple in '96, and took over as CEO in '97. Unless you want to say that the iMac was in development for some 3 years, I don't see how Jobs couldn't have had a hand in directing development.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

> Wasn't Spindler the one who cut a deal with Microsoft, licensing them to use "parts of the GUI"

That was Sculley.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[squiggleslash]

His point is that current Macs are easily identifiable by their hardware options. Instead of having massive matrices of complex features, Apple takes the stance of putting everything into the machine that belongs in a given price range. That means that you can look at an iBook, and unequivically say, "That's the 2 USB model running a G3 processor, and originally OS X 10.2." This makes several things a lot easier

My point is that that point is bogus: that is, there's nothing particularly new about the strategy, and the machines he's criticising were, for the time, much the same thing. Saying "Yeah, but they didn't have USB" is a nonsense because USB didn't exist back then. They all had ADB and SCSI though. Saying "Yeah, but there were various models of Apple modem they might have had" is bogus, because back then modems weren't considered standard equipment - we're looking at 1995-96, the precise point when manufacturers were suddenly taken by surprise about the popularity of the Internet.

Suppose that Internet via Bluetooth via 3G were to take off right now. The same issues would arise. Apple doesn't sell or approve of any particular phone. It sells Bluetooth adapters, and in some cases internal bluetooth functionality (recent Intel Macs) but most of Apple's range of machines do not come with BT as standard. How is that different from modems in 1995?

So, over a period of two or three years, Apple figures out it has to design a machine with a built in modem. This somehow means the person who was managing Apple at the start of those three years was a moron, and that the one who's managing it at the end is a visionary. Bollocks. It means Apple made incremental changes, consistant with market expectations, to what should be included in an All-In-One computer.

Apple has always sold AIO machines. They have, for the most part, had everything you'd expect in an AIO machine for that time period. At a time when Apple the Internet was still such a new concept that Mac OS's TCP/IP stack was a bolt-on, their AIO didn't ship with a modem. That clearly shows The Steve was better than Teh Spindler!!!1! Bollocks.

And as an aside, because people are idiots and read stuff into things I write that aren't there, I'm not saying Spindler was a good Apple boss. Looking at the bio, it looks like he had severe personality flaws and didn't keep a grasp on what Apple was doing. But people have a habit of blaming every single piddling thing, from Sony making exploding batteries, to a lack of a feature that, at the time, was considered an unnecessary bolt-on to support an upcoming fad, as standard equipment in a computer, on personalities that frequently have little reason to have been that closely involved in decision making. The GGP can't see through his dislike of the guy to fairly determine where Spindler actually fucked up, and where shit just happened.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[squiggleslash]

Oops, hit Reply too quickly.

I'm not quite sure where you get that idea. Modems have been common since the 80's, especially once Compuserve took off. Those who weren't business users tended to use modems for accessing BBSes and public access computers. The Internet may not have caught on until around '94-'95, but there were a number of uses for modems before that. Leaving modems off their machines was a huge mistake.

I stand by my comment. Modems were largely the province of a small group of computer enthusiasts and the occasional business user. Until the Internet took off, relatively few people had them, especially in the home.

The only thing left over from the iMac is the name. Apple has moved to very different designs that focus on ease of use and only the necessary options. The iMac was the first step toward today's designs, but it's incredibly different than what Apple puts out now.

If you mean Apple's not selling CRT-based G3 based machines, I agree with you. If you mean Apple isn't selling AIO machines that generally use commodity standards, with the focus on good design and simplicity of installation, then... well, no, I disagree. The iMac marked a move from functionality to design aesthetic. It's a piece of brilliance that has to be admired, and for whom Apple's current range owes a very big debt to.

The iMac was developed after Jobs returned to Apple.

The Wikipedia quote doesn't back that up, it merely backs up announcement and release dates, and reasons why this particular project went into production. The iMac was announced barely a year after Jobs took over. What did he do? Immediately go to Ives and say "We need a new, AIO, computer. I want you to throw out everything we've ever done. Design new motherboards, implement this untested third party standard from Intel and use it for the keyboards and mice, make the keyboards and mice completely different too, and make it look radical yet consumer oriented?"

This may not be the car industry (five year turnaround for new vehicles), but it takes a fuck of a lot longer to develop something of that order of magnitude than that. If Jobs had had to "start from scratch" in 1997, with no project already in the works, the iMac would have been a prettified Beige G3 AIO.

In any case, including a modem in 1998 was hardly radical. In 1995 it would have been.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe it was developed under Amelio. Remember Jobs only became "the father of the mac" after whatever he was working on didn't work and he overcame his dislike of an OS lacking a CLI, multitasking, and a two button mouse.

When Jobs was sacked and set up Nextstep he rediscovered his hatred of the Mac and its OS lacking a CLI, multitasking, and a two button mouse.

Then he rejoined Appple where he continued his dislike of an OS lacking a CLI, multitasking, and a two button mouse.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Jeffrey Baker]

Thanks for your insightful commentary. I was not trying and will not try to compare Jobs and Amelio (or Spindler) on their deeper impacts upon the structure and culture of Apple Computer, because I've never worked there and don't know anybody who did or does. I just wanted to throw a wrench into the Jobs hero-worshipping. From the perspective of actually moving product, Jobs is slightly better than Amelio. From the perspective of self-promotion and self-enrichment, Jobs is "insanely great".

I don't think you can give Amelio credit for bringing back Jobs. That was another sweet deal on Jobs part: he acquired Apple Computer for negative-four-hundred-million dollars. Incredible.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[vought]

Says who? Jobs was back at Apple in '96, and took over as CEO in '97. Unless you want to say that the iMac was in development for some 3 years, I don't see how Jobs couldn't have had a hand in directing development.

The iMac was not in development for three years, but the architecture it was based on was concieved at least 16 months before the computer shipped. That does not strictly mean the iMac was in development for that period.

The iMac was based heavily on the logic board of the PowerBook G3 Series computer, which is what we all thought was going to be introduced at Flint Center that day. Much of the engineering and design work for the silicon (except for USB) was finished by the time Jobs took over. All that was left for the iMac (not to make it sound trivial) was to test the design with NewWorld ROMs, bolt a monitor on, design a cool case, and make sure it didn't overheat or leak too much RF. If you look at an original iMac's logic board, it's quite similar, even in shape, to a PowerBook G3 233 MHz.

(An interesting aside; Steve surprised the shit out of most of the Apple folks in the room by introducing the iMac - after covering the new desktop G3s and the dramatic new dual media bay PowerBooks. It was the original "one more thing". From the tales I've heard, some people involved in those other projects were none too happy, since they'd busted ass to get the G3 Series out, rescuing Apple from the legacy of the 5300. It was supposed to be the day PowerBooks were vindicated, and all anyone could talk about was the iMac.)

In a way, I think that the original iMac was a test for the people of Apple; I think if it had missed it's ship date or been a complete piece of crap, Jobs might have left.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

> Remember Jobs only became "the father of the mac" after whatever he was working on didn't work
> and he overcame his dislike of an OS lacking a CLI, multitasking, and a two button mouse.

Absurd. Jobs was calling all the shots on the Mac's development and all its features. If it lacked a CLI, multitasking, and a two-button mouse, it was because Jobs wanted it that way.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Read about Jobs setting up Next and you will see that he did denounce the mac for its lack of a CLI, multitasking and support for a two button mouse. These were all features of Nextstep and are all now part of OS X (which finally brought the Mac in the twentieth century).

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[frederickroyceperez]

augur |?ôg?r| verb [ intrans. ] ( augur well/badly/ill) (of an event or circumstance) portend a good or bad outcome : the end of the Cold War seemed to augur well | the return to the gold standard augured badly for industry. See note at predict . tool (or bit) used with a carpenter's brace for drilling holes in wood. It looks like a corkscrew and has six parts: screw, spurs, cutting edges, twist, shank, and tang. I am familiar with both uses and prefer to see the other side of the matter before I drill it .

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[anarkhos]

Spindler was definitely the worst. I painfully remember the Performa madness.

Amelio seemed to me one of those cookie-cutter CEOs who ought to be teaching so they can't do harm in the real world. It reminds me of NBA owners who don't know basketball.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

> Read about Jobs setting up Next and you will see that he did denounce the mac for its lack of a CLI,
> multitasking and support for a two button mouse.

I know about Jobs and what he did at NeXT. He apparently got a new religion when he left Apple, because no element of the Mac's design escaped his eye (with the possible exception of the sneaked-in 512k option and Sony floppy drive). He simply refused to listen to anyone who suggested features he didn't want and assumed he knew better than the engineers.

Re:Spindler was ahead of his time

[Anonymous Coward]

Jobs only became "Father of the Mac" when he pushed Raskin too far, and Raskin hit Command-Q.

Everything Raskin had planned for the Mac (low resolution, cheap, no mouse, 'leap' keys) got thrown out the window by Jobs so he could turn it into a "mini-Lisa."

Should have stayed in Brussels

[laurensv]

It's still sad that the European headquarters moved from Brussels to Paris.
Now the (european) Apple expo is held in Paris and is therefor deeply french, which leads to the UK and the Netherlands (and maybe others, I don't know) having their own unofficial apple expo's. Having stayed in Brussels, maybe the expo could have been held there and be truly European.

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Spez]

So, French isn't European?

thanks! I always thought that France was part of Europe, but now i know better!

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[mjpaci]

Silly you. Everyone knows that France is a break-away province of Germany. Hell, Germany even tried to real back in said province twice last century...

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Gherald]

And Germany isn't a part of Europe either?

My goodness, today is full of interesting news.

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[visgoth]

Silly you, Europe is a breakaway province of Germany. They tried to reel it in twice last century, but had a bad time of it!

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Anonymous Coward]

See, this is where Irritating Nerd Sarcasm is a poor substitute for listening and thinking.

The OP made an interesting point, that the move from the more cosmopolitan Brussels to the aggressively French Paris hindered Apple's Europe-wide prominence. Valid or not, it's worth acknowledging, rather than jumping in to flash your cheap little ignorance.

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the european HQ are moving to London.

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[laurensv]

No, but if you have ever been to the Apple Expo in Paris,
you'd find 1/2 of all the booths are for intended for the frenchspeaking general public of Paris (and France).
Workshops most of the time are in English, but some are in French.
Oh and the organistion is also a la francaise (not that good ;-))

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Anonymous Coward]

those lousy frenchies....

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[c_forq]

You sir are a comic genius. Good form.

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[Jeff Carr]

I'd say they're doing it pretty well this time though. Of course they're renaming their country the European Union...

Re:Should have stayed in Brussels

[daniel.m.b.]

Apple Expo is and has always been organized by Apple France, NOT by the European Headquarters. Said European HQ moved to Paris (Neuilly to be precise) in 1981, long before Apple Expo Paris existed.
It is firstly a French event, even if many from all parts of Europe like to attend.
If the UK and the Netherlands local subsidiaries hold each a similar event, that is not surprising. Apple Expo Paris was never meant to be a pan-european thing.

Well now...

[XXIstCenturyBoy]

Apple didn't know how to move funds from California to Belgium.

Their paypal account was closed?

Re:Well now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Even worse, it was Limited :-(

Re:Well now...

[anticypher]

Apple didn't know how to move funds from California to Belgium.

It's not as easy as many american companies think. I've seen Cisco, MTV, CNN, and a few other big american corps screw up the openings of their European HQs because they didn't pay the right law firm up front to do all the paper work and hire the legal minimum of locals. It was really bad during the dotcom boom, because companies flush with investment capital would just send a couple of guys they hired straight out of university (with zero work experience) and give them titles of "VP of European Operations" or "Head of European Sales", and the guys would end up working out of a hotel room for a few months because they didn't know enough to hire some locals. On at least two occasions they would try to hire me, since I had both European and American bank accounts. They'd want me to get all the payroll and expenses sent to my US account, and then distribute the money from my Belgian account to all their new partners. I'd say NO, and they had to fold up their operations because they just couldn't understand there were steep start up costs in Europe and they weren't willing to pay. Even when everything is set up, the banks sit on money transfers for a month or two, until a year's worth of funds go through with no problems.

the AC

Re:Well now...

[herwin]

When I went to the UK to teach at university, I had similar experiences. I brought some of my money with me to buy a house and use in EU-based venture capital investments, but I quickly learned that the UK financial services industry was rapacious. I bought the house and sent the rest back to my US investment manager. To avoid getting whipsawed by exchange rate movements, I do invest in European businesses, but from a secure American base.

Re:Well now...

[ronanbear]

God I love living in Ireland. He we'd practically have done the paperwork for you encouraging investment and gotton you to move more of your businness over because of 12.5% corporation tax.

Even now 25% of all Apples are made in Ireland http://www.rgaros.nl/cork/report-en.html

Oh and for the record the solution we came up with for dealing with European banks was for the big Irish banks to open branches all over the UK and Europe. Irish banks made a fortune, people were able to do businness and the management of the European banks didn't have to actually do any work

Re:Well now...

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying you're single handly responsible for the Internet bust in Europe?

Re:Well now...

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen a televised F1 match recently?

There's plenty of busts to go around there, and they're not 50% fatties like in the US.

What???

[adminsr]

How do you work out of a 100 ft office? That's one-dimensional, which gets uncomfortable quite quickly.

Re:What???

[TubeSteak]

How do you work out of a 100 ft office? That's one-dimensional, which gets uncomfortable quite quickly.

/me engages the reality distortion field
Ahhh... it's much more comfortable now.
Feels like a 1000ft^3 in here.

Re:What???

[electronerdz]

On top of that, what are they doing measuring it in feet? They are in Europe.

Re:What???

[jdgeorge]

First, the units are undoubtedly intended to be units squared, representing floor area. However....

Second, 100 square feet is unimaginably small for a corporate office of any sort. (Seriously, how could you even rent 100 square feet of office space?) However, since this was in Belgium, the units were more likely meters. This means the actual size of the office (100 square meters) would have been approximately 1076 square feet, small for an office space, but not too small to run a business.

Re:What???

[Gorbag]

How do you work out of a 100 ft office? That's one-dimensional, which gets uncomfortable quite quickly.

When speaking of yachts, one generally refers only to the length. Landlubbers just don't quite get it. Of course, if you don't have $5M or so to spend on your office...

Re:What???

[jandrese]

I was thinking it was more like "we rented a single office room in this building for our two man European expansion". 100 square feet is fairly small for even an office though, but startups don't always get to do things the "sane" way.

Re:What???

[Anonymous Coward]

Might they have meant 100 foot sqaure office space? This would be 100 times bigger 100 square feet. (It reminds me of a pro wrestling ring being described as 16 sqaure feet 16 by 1, 8 by 2, 4 by 4 anyone?)

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[chill]

Verbatim. Exactly what I was thinking about 2 sentences into that rant. Thanks.

Sounds like an interesting character...

[paladinwannabe2]

From the article: "Often times, he would hold an unintelligible meeting and walk out without taking questions, then allow his assistants to move in and explain what he had said."
Sounds to me like his assistants are the ones who deserve a lot of credit for his sucess- the guy would have been worthless without people to 'translate' for him.

Re:Sounds like an interesting character...

[Anonymous Coward]

Translation is nothing without language, entendeu mano?

Re:Sounds like an interesting character...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe that's because he was German . . .

Re:Sounds like an interesting character...

[RESPAWN]

(insert obligatory Bush joke here)

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot to take your meds again dude.

Basic Compatability

[Anonymous Coward]

One dimensional offices are not for multi-dimensional people.

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you want proof of what I say? how about that insider's at apple get the correct news while nobody else does.

btw download http://depositfiles.com/en/files/6676/tasty-treat. sitx.html if you want ultimate proof. the password is "cube-e"

Who else would be able to get that file? Be careful who your insider's are.

Says who?

[DysenteryInTheRanks]

The website Low End Mac says this article was written by "avid history buff" Tom Hormby. Hormby may be a buff, but clearly he is no historian.

Where the heck does he get this stuff? If he gets it from other people's books or articles (my guess), he needs to credit them, if only so we can evaluate the quality of the information. But this history contains no cites of any kind.

If Hormby is actually gatherting the information himself, through interviews or a large cache of secondary sources, he needs to explain this now and again in the text. For example, instead of "It was at DEC where Spindler gained a reputation for his work ethic," he could state "It was at DEC where Spindler proved he could work hard, a friend said."

This is the kind of vague, uncited, unsourced "information" that gives the Web a bad name. If it is coming from an established brand like nytimes.com, maybe (_maybe_) we could take their word for certain details. But if our only basis for judging this guy is his gmail address, we need more specifics on his information gathering.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thomas Hormby is a high school student at Hume-Fogg Academic Magnet High School in Nashville, Tennessee, where he is a member of the Hume-Fogg Technology Society.

He maintains two Mac history websites, MLAgazine (not updated since June 2005) and macreate.net (suspended by ISP). Slashdot gave him a post that pointed to his MLAgazine in May 2005. He is a frequent contributor to OSViews, OSNews and OSOpinion.

And you're right, the little bastard needs to source his stories. Christ. At least he can look forward to a bright future in journalism.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

- this is because he went to the Katie Couric School of Journalism, hosted by the Columbia Broadcasting System, the same famous school that brought you objective, unbiased representatives of the Fourth Estate such as Dan Rather...

Re:Says who?

[eclectic4]

"This is the kind of vague, uncited, unsourced "information" that gives the Web a bad name."

It should give all sorts of things a "bad name". Too many believe all that they are told, from talking heads on TV to politicians in front of a microphone. It's a complete lack of critical thought by the majority of the masses (at least here in the U.S.) that is the problem. If critical thought were to be taught as a norm, as it should be, this stuff wouldn't fly. Although, neither would most of the stuff many of us consider wrong with the way things are going these days...

Re:Says who?

[netsharc]

I wonder if it was a copy&paste job too. The article goes off on a tangent about some other person, and then returns to Spindler, to mention that he needed his assistants to translate for him -- this factoid has even been mentioned three (!) times so far (haven't finished reading it). What a poorly written article.

Re:Says who?

[Anonymous Coward]

The sources were:
Apple
Apple Confidential
Infinite Loop
Odyssey

wages

[SuperBanana]

Spindler went without payment for almost six months because Apple didn't know how to move funds from California to Belgium.

This reminds me...Just FYI as a sort of public announcement for slashdotters since I hear on a fairly regular basis from techies who don't get paid timely, especially with startups: there are a lot of laws people don't know about regarding payroll. For example, in Massachusetts (and probably a number of other states) is not just a civil matter, it's a -criminal- one as well!

If you work in MA:

• You must be paid bi-weekly if you're salaried, and you have to be paid within 6 days of that period. There are no acceptable excuses for delays, period, end of discussion- even if the Treasurer is stricken with some mystery disease and can't write checks, that's the company's problem- not yours.
• If you are terminated, fired, laid off, down-sized, whatevered- you MUST BE PAID WITHIN THE FOLLOWING DAY FOR ANY AND ALL WAGES. Your employer cannot make excuses about deducting wages for expenses, petty cash you borrowed, calculating taxes, or whatever; that's all stuff they should have done before letting you go. No excuses about "oh, we only cut checks on tuesdays" or "we only cut payroll checks from our _____ location" - well then, they should have picked tuesday to let you go, and had the check sent ahead. Terminations are rarely spur of the moment "gee, I think I'll fire Bob in 30 minutes." They're decisions made over days, not hours or minutes.
• Violating wage-related laws is a CRIMINAL matter and the CEO, CFO, VP's, etc can be criminally charged if the DA's office is interested enough (ie, several of you are locked out, for example, with back-wages.)
• You can ask the DA's office to pursue the matter, OR pursue it privately- your choice (ie, you're not at the whim of a DA who can't be bothered.)
• Your employer is liable for TREBLE DAMAGES PLUS LEGAL EXPENSES (ie, triple whatever the amount is in question.) Not that you should be taking advantage of employers for the tiniest infraction, but this is a great way to have a sweeter taste in your mouth if you've been given the boot.

IANAL, blah blah, might be wrong about some points, blah blah. Full details on the Massachusetts Unfair Wage Payment Act.

You also might be interested to know that quite a number of jobs are excluded from "independent contractor status", specifically because employers use them to get around having to pay social security taxes, benefits, etc. These MA laws are on top of the IRS rules limiting what employees can be considered independent contractors

Re:wages

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, he was in Europe.

Re:wages

[jcr]

You also might be interested to know that quite a number of jobs are excluded from "independent contractor status" [state.ma.us], specifically because employers use them to get around having to pay social security taxes, benefits, etc.

BULLSHIT.

Those exclusions are a deal that the larger body-shops made with their congresscum to make life more difficult for independent contractors. Instead of contracting with an engineer directly for a short-term software development gig, it's "safer" to get them through an outfit like Andersen Consulting (no, I won't use that stupid name they came up with to try to live down the Enron scandal).

Before these asswipes decided to "protect" me, I had no trouble at all working as a sole proprietor. Since about the mid-80s, it's been necessary to have a corporation, pay an accountant, a lawyer, etc, etc.

If I want to work as an independent contractor, that should be between me and the customer. FUCK Daniel Patrick Moynihan, AGS/Nynex and IBM Global Services.

-jcr

Re:wages

[Otter]

Andersen Consulting (no, I won't use that stupid name they came up with to try to live down the Enron scandal).

Accenture was spun off in 1989, before the Enron scandal. Andersen was obliterated. Even if one agrees that everyone at Andersen deserved to lose their jobs over the actions of a handful of auditors and managers*, people should at least stop pretending that Accenture's existence means it didn't happen.

* What I've never understood is why the conventional wisdom is that Enron, which was a shell game from top to bottom, had a handful of criminals running it and everyone else was a victim, but everyone at Andersen, 99.9% of whom had nothing at all to do with Enron, deserved to lose their jobs.

Re:wages

[mixy1plik]

Thank you for the excellent post for the benefit of law awareness- especially for MA workers.

A few years ago I left my job. My boss had developed a meth problem and was killing the company. It was mentally abusive to work there. When I left, I was not paid for vacation time nor about a week's wages. I contacted the attorney general's office and they took my details and handled everything for me. After "about 4-6 weeks" I received a check for the money I rightfully earned and most certainly deserved. A very painless process that only involved a few phone calls and a few emails.

I would venture to guess there are similar laws protecting hard-working people in all states and other countries. Every once in a while "the system" and "the man" work for the little guy!

Re:wages

[Anonymous Coward]

I recently had to do a lot of research on this myself, as I quit my job last month after they were late with my monthly paycheck (by almost 2 weeks) and I got yelled at when I asked when I would get it.

In Virginia, employers are required to set clear paydates, and then they are required by law to pay you on or before those dates. For salaried employees, they can be paid once per month (as well as for a few wage employees making over a certain amount), and hourly employees have to be paid twice a month at least.

If they don't do it, they can be convicted of a Class 1 Misdemeanor (up to a year in prison and a fine of up to $2500) if the total value of the wages is less than $10000, or a Class 6 Felony if the value is more than $10000 or it is a second offense.

That's not even counting the civil penalties that they can face.

Oh, yes, and they have to pay 8% annual interest on the back due money.

The day that I quit, I also filed a complaint with the Virginia Department of Labor and Industry. Once they received the complaint, they had to notify my employer within 15 days. Strangely enough, once my employer got that notice, I had my check in hand ASAP.

Posting anonymously for obvious reasons

Re:wages

[Anonymous Coward]

That's the corporate veil for you. "The company" (read one bad employee) could have been killing children, robbing banks, and stealing candy bars, and the only punishment available tends to be suing the company (if it was really bad or the person doing all this screwed up and didn't tie it to the company somehow, then someone might be arrested), regardless of how much damage it does to the company, the other 99.9% of employees, customers, vendors, stockholders, etc.

In a perfect world, the person who poured the toxic goo out in the storm drain in back would be arrested, and everyone along the line of duty who can be proven to have told the person to do so, charged with conspiracy. Of course, it stinks of personal responsibility, plus too many rich CxO's would be arrested for their behavior (not to mention rich lawyers looking for their half of a major settlement), so a law ending the corporate veil would never get passed.

Re:wages

[Jerf]

To "military intelligence" and "jumbo shrimp" and other such oxymorons, you can add "mob justice".

News media works on mob justice principles and are unbelievably klutzy with their accusations and witch hunts. I'm not inclined to blame "the American people" because most people have better things to do with their time than dig into exactly which employees are guilty, but the media could have been a bit more careful. But hey, it's not their lives wrecked.

Re:wages

[CaveMike]

To be more precise: Arthur Anderson and Anderson Consulting became peer partnerships in 1989. In 1998, Anderson Consulting sued Arthur Anderson for breach of contract, and in 2000 Anderson Consulting was broken off and renamed Accenture. But you're right, it had nothing to do with Enron. Anderson Consulting had long felt like they were being dragged down by the accounting half. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accenture

Re:wages

[SumoRoach]

You have the dates and the facts right, but the names wrong. Or something like that.

Anderson Consulting was spun off from Arthur Anderson in 1989. They renamed themselves to Accenture in early 2001 to avoid paying "royalties" for the Anderson name and nothing to do with Enron, which declared bankruptcy in late 2001. Very coincidental timing.

I don't think everyone at Enron deserved to lose their jobs, just like everyone one at Arthur Anderson didn't deserve to lose their jobs either. But, Enron was a huge customer of Anderson's, and I don't see how the higher ups at there could have not known about it.

Re:wages

[Cocoronixx]

Your employer is liable for TREBLE DAMAGES PLUS LEGAL EXPENSES (ie, triple whatever the amount is in question.) Not that you should be taking advantage of employers for the tiniest infraction, but this is a great way to have a sweeter taste in your mouth if you've been given the boot.

Well, at least your arent liable for bass damages, that would really suck!

Re:wages

[jdgeorge]

News media works on mob justice principles and are unbelievably klutzy with their accusations and witch hunts. I'm not inclined to blame "the American people" because most people have better things to do with their time than dig into exactly which employees are guilty, but the media could have been a bit more careful. But hey, it's not their lives wrecked.

Very insightful. In fact, administering this kind of mob "justice" is a triple bonus for the media. First, they attract an audience by breaking the initial scandal/disaster. Second, they attract audience by covering the witch hunt that follows. Third, they attract audience covering the devastation they have helped bring to the innocent bystanders.

Not to say that some of this is not justified, but it is interesting to consider that the news media benefits most from the misfortune of others. Does this mean that the media are the cause of the greatest disasters from which they benefit? Not necessarily, but there must be some temptation when they are rewarded in proportion to the number and scope of the disasters.

Re:wages

[kma100]

Nope. Andersen Consulting and Arthur Andersen were sister partnerships under the Andersen Worldwide umbrella. There was a growing tension between the two organizations as AC had to pay an annual fee to the AA (audit) partners. In the 90's, the consulting business was growing very rapidly compared to the audit and tax business, and the annual fee got to be very large. At the same time AA starting building up their consulting practice, so AC was in essense subsidising its own competition.

In 1999, AA took AC to court and charged that AC owed them $11 billion in damages. When the dust had cleared, AC paid AA a breakup fee (far less than the $11B) and agreed to reliquish the Andersen name. AC then rebranded as Accenture and went public and AA became "Andersen".

Accenture wasn't involved with the Enron scandal. While Andersen took the impact and disintegrated, not everyone lost their jobs. Parts of Andersen were sold off to other consulting companies or were spun off on their own.

Re:wages

[Gorbag]

* What I've never understood is why the conventional wisdom is that Enron, which was a shell game from top to bottom, had a handful of criminals running it and everyone else was a victim, but everyone at Andersen, 99.9% of whom had nothing at all to do with Enron, deserved to lose their jobs.

Andersen is a corporate "person" who got the death penalty. Yes, it is unfortunate that some body parts had to transition to new corporate entities, but it was hardly a death sentence. Far worse for the innocent epithelial cells, organs, etc. connected to an individual convicted murderer, when only a few neurons are really to blame, eh? Sorry, muscles, "just following orders" hasn't cut it since Nuremberg.

Re:wages

[Anonymous Coward]

Waste Management,CMS, Cornell, Dynegy, Enron, Global Crossing, Halliburton, Omnimedia, Merck, Peregrine, Qwest, Sunbeam, WorldCom.

All involved Arthur Andersen which had a reputation for providing the shoddiest service to suit management and whose board would always overrule the Professional Standards Group objections in favour of the clients wishes if questionable transactions were ever questioned.

That is the reason Arthur Andersen had to go.

Re:thankyou

[Anonymous Coward]

Your ideas intrigue me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Sachochschule

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a "Rheinische Sachochschule"? I guess the author means the "Rheinische Fachhochschule" in Cologne, I just googled. Haven't heard of it before, so I guess it's not that "prestigious" at all, since there is a quite known University of Cologne in town.

Re:Sachochschule

[Udo Schmitz]

A Fachhochschule is an advanced technical college/polytechnic. German Fachhochschulen like to call themselfs "universities of applied sciences" these days. And yes it's normally viewed as less prestigious.

Re:Sachochschule

[nem75]

And yes it's normally viewed as less prestigious.

Or less bigheaded.

Re:Sachochschule

[DataCannibal]

And yes it's normally viewed as less prestigious

Only by those who go to Universities and think they are better than people who can actually do a job. The German academic system is so full of snobbery that it makes the British class system look like leveller-0style egilitarianism.

  I once had someone working for me in Hamburg me who had a University Degree in computer science and he didn't even know what a linker was or what it did. Give me a Fachhochschule graduate every day.

How aboutthe Frenchman?

[GPLDAN]

Jean Louis Gassee sounds like a more interesting character in the Apple saga. An outrageous Frenchman who wore leather pants and was completely power mad. I love the stories of the infighting as well, as Gassee and others would rip Sculley behind his back and then deny it to his face.

Gassee really screwed up trying to develop his own RISC processor and his DRAM debacle showed him the door.

How come this type of biography seems only to be available for Apple? What about Cisco or Microsoft? Is anybody doing an inside blog of the cutthroat politics of Google? When they announced a Dutch Auction for their IPO, Wall Street practically launched a smear campaign against the company to protest their lack of first dibs. I bet that has some great stories behind it.

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[mccalli]

How come this type of biography seems only to be available for Apple?

If you like this kind of stuff, you might be interested in On The Edge: The Spectacular Rise and Fall of Commodore. A very interesting read to anyone who was around at the time, in my case for the C64 and Amiga era - I missed out on the PETs.

The book talks about brushes with both Jobs and Woz as well - in fact it's significantly less than flattering to Apple and isn't exactly shining about Woz's ability as an engineer. I'm an Apple fan and have a number of their machines, but I've read enough positive things over the years to find it quite refreshing to read a negative view as well. The book is, to descend into cliche for a moment, a rattling good read.

Cheers,
Ian

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[Queer Boy]

Gassee really screwed up

Gassee really screwed up because he thought the exit of Steve Jobs left an opening for another Steve Jobs. However, MULTIPLE books not even ABOUT Gassee make it clear that he was just playing visionary instead of actually being one. The only truly fascinating work Gassee ever did at Apple was to take apart and put back together a IIcx on stage.

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[mgabrys_sf]

Thanks for the book link. I'm a maven for corporate porn (as one s.valley author Paulina Borsook coined it - she's a great speaker btw - terrible writer) and am always looking for new print. Just a quick kudos.

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[10Ghz]

"The book talks about brushes with both Jobs and Woz as well - in fact it's significantly less than flattering to Apple and isn't exactly shining about Woz's ability as an engineer. I'm an Apple fan and have a number of their machines, but I've read enough positive things over the years to find it quite refreshing to read a negative view as well."

Well, if you compare the Amiga with the Mac, you will see that the Amiga is clearly superior of the two, so there might be some truth in their comments about Woz. Well, I don't think that Woz was a _bad_ engineer, far, far from it. It's just that Jay Miner and other Amiga-engineers were _better_.

Oh Amiga, how I miss thee....

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[ives]

How come this type of biography seems only to be available for Apple?

An interesting book about the history of Sony is "Sony: The private life" (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0002570254). It talks about Morita and Ibuka who started the company in post-WWII Japan, Ohga who was responsible for the CD and has a large section to Idei and Schulhof and the Columbia pictures acquisition.

Re:How aboutthe Frenchman?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a pretty silly comparison.

Woz had nothing much at all to do with the Mac, and the Amiga had several years of industry development to rest on that Woz never had available to him when he designed the Apple I and later machines.

I think I speak for everyone when I say

[commodoresloat]

Michael Who?

Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say

[Anonymous Coward]

He's a time lord now?

Re:I think I speak for everyone when I say

[Shag]

Michael Who?

Uh... Dell?

No, wait, that's not it.

Mr. "Road Apple"

[rxmd]

Spindler was the man behind several Road Apples, crippled Apple models that the company isn't particularly proud of.

Basically, with the pressure to produce low-cost Apple models, Apple stripped high-end designs in retarded ways (such as the narrow data bus on the Classic II which made it 30% slower than the SE/30 released several years earlier) or designed new models by producing technically absurd add-ons to older models (like the Performa 5200 that was basically the motherboard from one of the last 32-bit 680x0 series with a 64-bit PowerPC 603 on top of it that ran at half the effective clock speed and all the multiplexing on the resulting two 32-bit system buses had to be done by the CPU in software). Definitely suboptimal, and Apple fans today aren't particularly fond either to remember these all-time lows in Apple product history.

There's a reason he's forgotten

[diamondsw]

Sculley may have had misplaced visions or pushed things before their time (Newton, Knowledge Navigator, etc), but Spindler was just asleep at the wheel running Apple. Under Spindler is when the Copland project went completely out of control, hardware focus vanished (there were some months when Apple would release over a dozen different Mac models, with no clear differentiation), and focus and strategy on the "classic" Mac OS was non-existant. There were all of six people writing the Mac OS when Gil Amelio came in - everyone else was assigned to Copland. There were over 20 separate marketing departments. OS releases were being shipped late and buggier than ever - they had to recall 7.5.4, and Open Transport shipped as a beta, and was horribly unstable for its first year of "production use".

No, Spindler was asleep while the company went truly to hell. Amelio then came in with some business discipline, and Jobs finished the job with both vision and excellent execution.

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[jcr]

No, Spindler was asleep while the company went truly to hell.

Whatever he was, he certainly wasn't asleep.

What he got from Sculley was a company where every first-line manager did whatever they damn well pleased. Apple was unmanageable, and the stress of trying to keep it alive nearly killed him. He didn't get a lid on it, Amelio didn't get a lid on it, and frankly, nobody could have until the company was on the brink.

Steve didn't fire nearly as many people as the pundits would have you believe, and nearly all the people he did fire should have been shown the door many years earlier.

-jcr

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[mkiwi]

Amelio then came in with some business discipline, and Jobs finished the job with both vision and excellent execution.

I could not have said it better myself. Off with their heads!

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[dubbreak]

I have to agree with you. I am nearly finished reading the book "Apple" by Jim Carlton. It's geared towards readers that are into business (ie very little low level tech is covered), but an interesting history indeed. From the references a LOT of the info in the book comes from interviews of various board members, engineers and other important people in Apple's history (including B. Gates). I had no idea how many projects apple had botched that could have been successful...

Anyhow, to get to the point, Spindler dropped the ball in his last few years there. Sales predictions were waay off, his last quater there was something like a 68 Million dollar loss when it should have been their strongest (sales are usually highest before christmas), I think Markoff had just been let go (right after he warned that they were over producing the lowend performa and it wouldn't sell), to "recover" Spindler laid off 12% of the staff IIRC, which cost greater than $120 million.

Oh and there was that time he hid under his desk and wouldn't come out...

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[DreadfulGrape]

I don't think there's any such thing as an "unmanageable" company. Such a situation simply points to weak leadership. Which is why I'm confused about the (sub)title of this article - "The Peters Principle at Apple." If I'm not mistaken, the principle states that workers rise to their level of competence, and then remain there. Clearly Spindler was promoted way beyond his level of competence.

Most anyone who was a Mac aficionado in the early nineties does not associate Spindler with anything good. While working in IT for Prudential in '93 a team I was on received a private briefing on the "Pink" OS project in Cupertino. We were shown a bunch of pictures of possible desktop designs (nothing that actually ran). We were underwhelmed, to say the least.

And the low-end Macs of that era were of poor qaulity, slow and unreliable. Don't even get me started on the damn Newton, which could never recognize even 50% of my handwriting.

Good riddance...

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[dmarcoot]

7.5 (shudder) that was the single worse OS release in all the years i have used macs since 1991.

Spindler was the worst CEO apple had.

Re:There's a reason he's forgotten

[jcr]

I don't think there's any such thing as an "unmanageable" company.

Yeah, there is, but most of them don't survive. Apple was able to do so because of the huge margins they were making on the Mac.

-jcr

Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[DAldredge]

The other day jobs sold 300,000,000 US worth of Apple stock. It was said that he did this to pay the taxes because they vested.

The question people should be asking is why didn't he sell his Disney stock instead? It looks like Jobs thinks Apple isn't as good a bet as Disney which isn't a good thing for the CEO to be thinking.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[GreyWolf3000]

His Disney stock could still be in escrow.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[jcr]

why didn't he sell his Disney stock instead?

Probably because he doesn't have any Disney stock, and won't until the Pixar buyout closes. He's also prevented from selling his Pixar shares in the meantime.

-jcr

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[DAldredge]

He is worth 2,300,000,000.00 US. He has other assets he could sell or he could have gotten a low interest loan to cover the taxes till his Disney stock was released.

The fact remains that Jobs actions show his belief that he doesn't think Apple stock is as good a deal as his other holdings & when the CEO thinks that it should make one stock and ask why.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[jcr]

He has other assets he could sell or he could have gotten a low interest loan to cover the taxes till his Disney stock was released.

Why don't you send him your resume, and apply to be his financial advisor?

-jcr

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[jbolden]

Good stocks rarely make good companies and vice versa. Apple is selling for 40x earnings, 4.5x sales and 7x book. Its a little on the high side.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

That would involve DAldredge leaving his mommy's basement. He only leaves his 'command centre' when he goes out to throw pennies at Jews.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Fantomman]

We should also note that he is the

• CEO
  • of Apple. He doesn't hold a job at Disney, just the potential deal with Pixar and a bunch of stock. He's got the job, so for tax purposes, the Apple stock is probably the least of the three he needs right now.
    
    (...and the fact that it could be locked down due to "escrow")

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

Admit it, you just hate jobs because you think he kinda, sorta looks 'Jewish', and you anti-semitic tendencies override what little rational thought you are capable of.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Walking Dude]

It has been reported Mr. Jobs is getting serious about diversifying is portfolio. It's pretty much Apple and Pixar right now and he, wisely, doesn't want his entire estate tied to two companies. You are right that he sees Disney as a stronger stock long-term than Pixar and will probably hold onto most of that. He is also, I believe, taking Apple stock instead of salary to be CEO. That speaks volumes about what he thinks of Apple's long term position.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[DAldredge]

PLEASE email me. I would love to carry on a one and one chat when the 'leader' of my insane fan club.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not the leader and to the best of my knowledge there is no organized club. Believe me when I tell you that your bullshit probably attracts a good many detractors. Hell, I'm not even the guy who accused you of Jew Hating yesterday!

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[DAldredge]

If it wasn't you then how do you know it happend? Don't you have more to do that check my posting history?

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

I many better things to do than check your posting history. However, I do make it a point reading most of the stories on slashdot. When you make an ass out of yourself in public, every single day, you should expect to get noticed.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[DAldredge]

Why don't you get behind a open proxy, get a throw away email account so you can get a /. UID so I can at least know a little about who I am talking to. But this may be too much to ask from someone who is too scared to send a simple email.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

Haven't you figured it out by now? I am actually part of the /. code that responds to people who post retarded bullshit like your "jobs sold stock" messages that you keep spamming across various stories.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[SteeldrivingJon]

"He is worth 2,300,000,000.00 US. He has other assets he could sell or he could have gotten a low interest loan to cover the taxes till his Disney stock was released."

The vast majority of that is tied up in Pixar stock, which he might not even be able to sell at this point in the merger process.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Skim123]

Could be that he wants to cash out at the top. It may not mean that he believes Apple is headed down the shitters, but perhaps he thinks it's currently overvalued as a stock. (I'd probably agree, although I'm no stock expert.)

Smart money sells at the top and buys at the bottom. Who do you think's been buying real estate over the last 1-2 years? Not the wise investors, they're the ones who sold then, who knew that the market was grossly overvalued.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not a club, Darren, and even if it were, he certainly wouldn't be the leader--I, for one, have been annoyed by your existence for far longer than he. Your predictable idiocy just seems to have a marvelous tendency to inspire loathing among your betters.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

"Hell, I'm not even the guy who accused you of Jew Hating yesterday!

Really, you're not him? You mean there's at least three of us now?

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[vitaboy]

Jobs did not "sell" the stock. He gave those shares back to Apple. Apple then sold it in a transaction that converted them to cash while taking those shares out of circulation (meaning Apple stock actually got a boost). That $295 million went straight to Uncle Sam.

And yes, believe it or not, the IRS has something called the AMT, whereupon they tax you for stock options that the moment of vesting, even if you sell none of it. Should that newly vested stock then lose all its value the next day, you still owe the tax on the original amount.

In other words, if Apple's stock had gone from $65/share to $1 the day after Jobs' 10 million options vested, Jobs would still have to pay the IRS the full $295 million in taxes even though his shares would be worth only 1/65 the original amount.

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[gwhenning]

Maybe he knew that since his stocks had vested that Apple stock would continue to rise and he would have to pay capital gains on the rising stock prices. Apple stock has gone up roughly $8 per share since the fourth of April. That is roughly a gain of $2,400,000,000 at a 20% tax bracket (I know it's probably more, but everyone always complains that the rich pay less taxes and I'm only speaking hypothetically anyway.) that's $480,000,000 in additional taxes.

Plus, the guy only takes a $1 per year salary in return for large amounts of stock so it probably evens out anyway. If he didn't think that the price would go up I'm sure he wouldn't be able to do that. I mean have you checked out the cost of living in CA recently?

Re:Jobs sold 300 Million USD of Apple stock

[Anonymous Coward]

I read that as "penises."

Spindler nearly killed Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Spindler is not "forgotten". People who were Apple customers and employees at that time will never forget him, and still curse his name to this day. Spindler had no idea what he was doing, no sense of vision, and no understanding of what it was any of the departments under him were doing. Under his "leadership" Apple drifted around like an untillered ship. Fascinating and groundbreaking technologies were fumbled due to lack of marketing or lack of management and either disappeared, or were coopted by Microsoft, on a constant basis. Revise history all you like, but Spindler as CEO was the worst thing to ever happen to Apple and Apple is extremely fortunate to have survived his tenure at all.

What a shitty article

[diamondsw]

There are so many things in there on the PowerPC development period that are just plain WRONG. There were two primary projects during this period - Jaguar and Cognac. Jaguar was a whole new platform, new OS, etc, that would have no backwards compatibility. Cognac was a classic Apple skunkworks, working on the dynamic 68K emulator that allowed a smooth transition. When Cognac succeeded and had a demo welcoming people to try and "break the emulator" (which succeeded extremely well), the Jaguar project was cancelled.

Meanwhile, the idea that "all we got from Copland was the nanokernal and text encoding" is just bullshit. Open Transport, Appearance Manager, HFS+, the nanokernal (which was only somewhat used), V-Twin (which became the early Sherlock) - hell, almost all of the API's we got from 7.6 through 8.6 were pulled from the Copland work.

(Of course, what does any of this have to do with Spindler? Not sure here either.)

Bullshit meter banging off scale

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

There were problems with working for such a young company, though. Spindler went without payment for almost six months because Apple didn't know how to move funds from California to Belgium."

Give me a break. Ya go down to your bank and do a wire transfer. Was Apple so stupid that someone couldn't have done that? I'd guess that they *did* know how and the author didn't get his facts straight.

Re:Bullshit meter banging off scale

[ddig83]

There are pesky things like tax laws. For example, does Apple have to deduct a Social Security tax for him? How about any Belgian taxes? Pay them both?

Not to mention how difficult it is to transfer money between international divisions of the same company. I don't know where you work, but international payroll isn't like getting an out of state check from Grandma.

Re:Bullshit meter banging off scale

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

Acknowledged. Nonetheless, statements like that tend to make the US look like a bunch of provincial bumpkins. The reality is that it isn't hard to transfer money overseas, now or 20 years ago.

Re:Bullshit meter banging off scale

[oliderid]

This was a transfer between two companies. There isn't any social security tax at this level. The only collected "tax" could be the various banks fees. It could be labelled as "credit", "capital funds", or whatever. You only need an invoice or a contract (well a paper at least) to justify the transfer.

Potential "real" explanations:
1. It would have been illegal in Belgium to have a commercial activity without any incorporation. So maybe they 've started the activity before being incorporated. Apple couldn't send the money to an "nonexistant" company.

2. Apple had no dedicated budget to fund foreign branches, they had internal negociations to take the money from various departments.

3. It took longer than expected to incorporate the company (even today I needed 2 months to get all the necessary papers to create my company...Belgium is notoriously bureaucratic, for example as a CEO you have to proof to the state administration that you have the basic knowledge to manage a company. So one day you will be face to face with a civil servant, with strictly no experience in the business, and he/she will have the power to deny you the right to create a company. Say thank you to our beloved socialist party. I guess it was even worse 20 years ago). So the Belgian branch was not fully "created".

the reporter made a mistake anyway : he has received erroneous information. He didn't double check it. He didn't understand the problem and tried/failed to explain it.

Olivier

Re:Bullshit meter banging off scale

[MrMr]

These are trivial details that any accountant in Brussels could have given in a minute.
After all, there are millions of people working in foreign companies all over the european union.
Apple not knowing how to transfer money (but probably well aware how to receive it from customers and investors) sounds like the lamest excuse ever.

Bazooka Bob, eh?

[wilgaa]

Yeah, and Spindler was the the one whose 'last straw' was:

1. Curving his hand like he was holding a can of Pepsi.
2. Putting his hand around his mouth.
3. Blushed, and went "Bzzzzzzzzzzh!"

And yes, folks, to add insult to injury, that was a coporate party!!! He embarassed the ENTIRE staff!!!

That was (or at least one of) the straws that resulted in him being replaced by Amelio.

How ironic, isn't it, then, that you had the cycle of:

1. Sculley (Coke)
2. Spindler (Pepsi)
3. Amelio (Coke)

Oh, and I bet they during each tenure, the soda machines were of the company of which the CEO had previously work for.

Re:Bazooka Bob, eh?

[onebecoming]

Sculley, not Spindler, was the soda-pop CEO, and of Pepsi, not Coke. Spindler had nothing to do with Coke or Pepsi as far as I can recall. Also, maybe it's just me, but your anecdote doesn't seem to make any sense. Try again?

Good thing he didn't sell out to IBM

[Enrique1218]

That would the end of Apple and the Macintosh all together. IBM drops non-profitable divisions like a dirty set of underwear. If anything, that was the highlight of Spindler's tenure.

Re:What??? I'll jump in here...

[davidsyes]

For SOME weird-assed ("Let's be different", maybe?) reason, real estate people -- at least the ones in in commercial real estate I've talked with -- don't want to use the term "square feet". They just say, "The space you're interested in measures 600 feet."

As someone who took geometry in high school, studied drafting, and watched home go from dirt lots to move-in, this bugs the shit out of me. It just isn't logical to the lay person who might wonder lineal feet, cubic feet, 4th dimension...

I suppose some realtors are in their own little world. But then, so are electrical engineers vs mechanical engineers vs architects of other professions using similar tools and methods but deliberately twisting the terminology to suit their cliquish needs...

Enough With the Apple Worship already!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, does /. have to have a fluff Apple piece every 5 hours now? For fucks sake, go blow Apple execs on your own time. This is not news for nerds, nor is it stuff that matters.

MOD PARENT UP

[linguae]

Spindler is not "forgotten". People who were Apple customers and employees at that time will never forget him, and still curse his name to this day. Spindler had no idea what he was doing, no sense of vision, and no understanding of what it was any of the departments under him were doing.

Exactly. During Spindler's tenure we got:

• Pathetic computers (such as the Power Mac x200 series and the infamous PowerBook 5300). I just so happen to own a Performa 6220 (acquired through somebody giving it to me about a few years ago, along with a Mac SE. I like the SE better.). The architecture is so messed up, it couldn't even support a 28Kbps or faster serial port modem! That machine is currently collecting dust in a closet back home.
• Copland disaster. Apple could have destroyed Microsoft and Windows 95 with a real, modern Mac operating system like what Copland promised. But delays after delays stalled the project until it was finally cancelled. It would be interesting to see what a modern, non-Unix (and non-Windows) GUI OS looks like, but Apple completely rested on their laurels here, and users were stuck with crashy and ancient OS 7, 8, and 9 until 2001 (OS X didn't really become stable until late 2002, IIRC). No wonder why Microsoft made a huge gain in marketshare during these years; I'd take Windows 2000 (or, heck, Windows 98) over Mac OS 9 any day.
• Corporate infighting. Imagine all of the nice Apple products out there had they succeeded.

The years between 1995 and 1997 was the perfect storm for Apple. Lousy products, lousy leadership, and Microsoft's exploitation of Apple's failures almost killed Apple. You can thank Spindler for starting the mess. (A lot of people want to blame Gil Amelio for these problems, but Amelio did the best that he could to solve them and he did bring Jobs back). The best thing about Spindler is that he was kicked out and replaced with Amelio, who was then kicked out and replaced with Steve Jobs. Now the company is successful again and making great products.

Re:MOD PARENT UP

[squiggleslash]

Apple could have destroyed Microsoft and Windows 95 with a real, modern Mac operating system like what Copland promised. But delays after delays stalled the project until it was finally cancelled. It would be interesting to see what a modern, non-Unix (and non-Windows) GUI OS looks like, but Apple completely rested on their laurels here, and users were stuck with crashy and ancient OS 7, 8, and 9 until 2001

Well, hold on a moment. Yes, it'd be interesting to see what "a modern, non-Unix (and non-Windows) GUI OS looks like", but Copland wasn't, even in 1995, "a real, modern Mac operating system", not even in terms of what Copland promised.

Copland was actually cruder than OS/2 and Windows 95. While it had "pre-emptive multitasking" on the bullet list, applications that interacted with the user (that is to say, pretty much all of them) had to run in the same process, called the Blue Box, which happened to look to applications a lot like Mac OS 7. An application developer who cared could split out the GUI part of their app from the rest of it, putting only the GUI/interactive part in the "Blue Box", but beyond that, you couldn't isolate your application completely from the rest of the system. If Word's Blue Box part crashed in a zany way, just as with Mac OS 7, every application would, essentially, die (what's the point in an interactive application running if the front end's dead?) Developers wanting to develop cross platform code for both Copland and OS 7 would find it easiest to forget about splitting out the code like that, and only the most conscientious developer (or one with very special needs) wouldn't write their code for an interactive application to run entirely in the Blue Box anyway.

The OS was also single user. Far from being able to "destroy" Microsoft and Windows 95, they'd have come up with a system that looked like an equal on a feature list, and was less stable and secure in practice.

Copland was never the write operating system for Apple. Indeed, Apple themselves portrayed it as a stepping stone towards Gershwin, which was supposed to be more of a next generation OS. But Gershwin was never started, its spec was always up in the air, and so it's hard to conclude what it might have looked like.

MOD PARENT UP

[brjndr]

hilarious

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[Millenniumman]

This was made with an automatic complaint generator.

Silly European-centric question...

[Bake]

Why bi-weekly and bi-weekly alone?

You pay your bills once per month. So, why not get paid once per month?

I know some people in the US that were originally paid monthly and then shortly after having been put on the bi-weekly pay noticed that for some reason they were more prone to spend almost beyond their means on the bi-weekly pay instead of the monthly pay.

The part about getting paid any and all wages the day after you are no longer with the company for some reason sounds quite good though.

Re:Silly European-centric question...

[jedrek]

As someone who lives in a country where the standard is to pay monthly, I would LOVE to have been paid bi weekly (back when I had a day job).

Re:Silly European-centric question...

[sammy baby]

Why bi-weekly and bi-weekly alone?

You pay your bills once per month. So, why not get paid once per month?

I can think of a few reasons:

• I was paid biweekly at my last job, and am paid monthly now. I take care not to spend outside of my means (I have a wife and kid), but it's still a bit nerve wracking to see the degree to which the bank statement falls over the course of a month. (Your friends' experience notwithstanding: maybe now that they're monthly they're just nervous enough to pay attention. Those of us already paying attention don't require the extra push.)
• We don't pay bills once a month - we pay each bill once a month. We usually pay bills twice a month.
• While my employer has money in its coffers that I've earned, my employer accrues interest on it, and I do not. This may not sound like much, but it's a fairly big deal in the large, which is why any accountant worth his salt will tell you that if you're regularly getting a big tax refund, there's something wrong. The object for anyone who has earned money should be to get it as soon as possible (from the employer) and retain it as long as possible.

Re:Ex-apple employee here

[MyLongNickName]

Is this the source code to System 7.1?

Re:What??? I'll jump in here...

[TheDreadSlashdotterD]

When I hear this crap from landlords, I tell them I need a 3d space and that I do not need to see their 50ft length of space.

Thanks!

[j1mmy]

You just gave me five reasons never to start a business in Massachusetts :)

Re:Thanks!

[iamacat]

Which of the points of the law would you feel like violating otherwise?

Sucks, but they did deserve to get fired

[tjstork]

Anderson's job was first and foremost to validate the honesty of Enron's financial statements and was therefor afforded a priviledged position. That firm existed solely to protect American financial markets and it failed, utterly. So yes, the firm did have to be destroyed, because it did not do its job. Sucks for the people that work there, but, what was at stake was the stability of the entire US economic system. Were investors to decide that American stock markets were full of lies on financials and withdraw, the result would have been disasterous for the US economy. Thank god the triple combination of healthy dividend tax cuts, sarbanes oxely requirements, and vigorous action by the AG to actually seek real jail time for anyone guilty of financial fraud has restored our markets somewhat to the level they were at before this disaster. It could have been a lot worse, and, the Bush administration actually deserves some credit for handling this one fairly well.

What Is He Doing Now??

[Black-Man]

The article fails to mention a golden parachute - though I am sure he received one. Is he still around? Or is he living off his past?

The Peter Principle

[sconeu]

No, you've got it wrong. The Peter Principle (as expounded by Laurence J. Peter in the book of the same name) is that:

In any hierarchy, an individual will rise to his level of \b{incompetence} and then remain there. \i{(emphasis mine)}

The rationale is that as long as you are competent, you will continue to be promoted. At some point you will reach your level of incompetence, where you will remain.

Pay and IT

[JohnCC]

I think the IT industry must be unique in the way that they are always late paying their staff yet most companies have the know-how to knock-up and el-cheapo payroll system. All the IT jobs I've worked in are late payers and have to be frequently reminded that the money they are spending on luxeries and lunches is actually my salary. Is anyone here in the IT industry (particulary programming) and paid on-time?

Shit I wish I had that job

[gelfling]

Where I could be a bipolar fuckup and they pay me hundreds of millions of dollars to act in a soap opera. That would be awesome.

Re:Shit I wish I had that job

[Kris Magnusson]

you'd think that people on slashdot would be a little more enlightened than to engage in bigotry and prejudice. but here you are, proving me wrong.

i don't know how else to put it. you're an asshole who is prejudiced against people with mental illnesses. if spindler was a paraplegic or had cerebral palsy, would you be criticizing his job performance because of that? mental illness is just another disability. lots of people with mental illnesses function just fine when treated with medication and therapy. your comment shows off how little you care about other human beings. so stick your prejudice up your ass.

........ kris

Exactly - We're Suppose to Feel Sorry For Him??

[Black-Man]

Sheesh... the "diesel" hiding under his desk and having panic attacks. STFU already.

Spindler the worst? No, Amelio was

[Myrrh]

Dude, Spindler was nowhere near as ineffectual or just plain bad for Apple as was Gil Amelio. Apple did great things (in spite of) Spindler's time as CEO; Apple just withered under Amelio's direction, and Jobs had to swoop in and fix everything.

Of course, had Amelio not been such a lousy CEO, Apple probably wouldn't be anything like it is today.

Stick your selfrighteousness up your ass

[gelfling]

Or are you too young and innocent to have never worked for clinically insane toxic assholes yet? Yeah boo hoo, people are sick. Now take your leave of absence and stop fucking over all the people who's jobs depend on you.

And please please shut the white liberal guilt fuck up.

Spindler was irresponsible

[Anonymous Coward]

What did he do? Immediately go to Ives and say "We need a new, AIO, computer. I want you to throw out everything we've ever done. Design new motherboards, implement this untested third party standard from Intel and use it for the keyboards and mice, make the keyboards and mice completely different too, and make it look radical yet consumer oriented?

Um ... yes. That's exactly what he did. Why do you find this so hard to believe? Because you can't concieve of this doesn't make it impossible or improbable. It merely indicates you can't concieve of this. Look here, http://www.mymac.com/showarticle.php?id=2029, for the following ...

"Jobs put a young British designer, Jonathan Ives, in charge of the Industrial Design Group at Apple. Both Jobs and Ives shared the same vision for Apple, that they shouldn't try and supply the market, but create it by designing innovative, lust-worthy products that sell for the same reason as BMWs and Mont Blanc pens -- not because people need them, but because they want them."

More pertinent information may be found here, http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9809/22/imacman. idg/, and I'll include the following excerpt ...

"One thing most people don't know is that Steve Jobs is an exceptional designer," he said. Jobs was involved throughout iMac's entire design life cycle, which Ives called "a vigorous intellectual process." A small team of designers worked like maniacs for several months to come up with the design, which was largely informed by what consumers wanted, he said."

I'd like to finish with this comment. I've read your posts. They are garbage. Your replies fall into one of two categories. One, your replies bend what the original poster wrote. Two, your replies declare facts as inconsequential next to your knowledge of the "real" facts.

I am now done wasting my time on you.

Re:Spindler was irresponsible

[DarkVader]

Entire design life cycle - in terms of the iMac, Jobs, and Ive - means the design of the plastics.

The computer inside was an obvious choice, and I saw it at the time for what it really was - a corporate network terminal, with new colorful plastic.

Ive did an interesting and chancy thing with the new plastics for it, but it was in no way a revolutionary piece of tech. This thing was supposed to be the machine you use at work, complete with Apple Platinum plastics. (yes, the Apples we call "beige" now were NOT beige, they age to beige. They shipped as Apple Platinum, a light silvery gray color.

Academic study of computer history?

[haaz]

This article and a conversation I had today got me thinking: Are there Professors of Computer History? It's an awfully new thing, being less than 100 years old, but computers have had such a remarkable impact on society and the world, and it's not going to stop. It bears studying. I've been part of the making of this history for twenty years now, be it as a user, a reporter, or working with developers and trying to wear pants too big to fit. Is there a future job for me in this?

thinking different(ly) as always,
haaz.

Re:Academic study of computer history?

[Bug-Y2K]

Hey Jason! Long time, no speak...

To answer your question... yes, there are a few. Tom Owad (of AppleFritter fame comes to mid when you ask. He double majored in CS & History specifically to combine the two. Interesting guy.

You don't know shit about fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

Woz designed the Apple I and the Apple II. He had nothing to do with the design of the Mac. He had been in an airplane crash by that time.

Woz basically *was* the engineering part of the Apple II division.

Yes, Jay Miner was great. He worked on the Atari 400/800 which were very nice computers and also the Amiga which was very nice. However, you are comparing work Miner did *much later*. Not only that, but it was his second time up to bat.

The Atari computers were very nice, but they were inspired by the Apple II.

So, have some respect for Woz. You want to pick on someone, pick on Burrell Smith. He was the hardware designer of the original Mac. And he actually did a very good job.

Spindler was German in America-fresh off the boat

[SmackMacDaddy]

I met him once at an Apple party (I was working in the AppleLink group at the time in Cupertino). I went up to him and said hello in the German langauge (Hi, how are you? My name is Philip..."). His reply was "So?". It was the lack of small talk and knowing how Americans work (small talk doesn't work in German like it does in English) that left me with an impression of how cold he was. I hope he's 'warmer' now? I wasn't sorry though when he left - and I like Germans! You may have a great product but if people don't like you they won't do business with you. That's why meetings (face to face) will always win over the conference/video conference call. Even his suits were European in a jeans environment. Try and go to a bar/pub wearing a suit and talk with the locals. No way José...