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Linspire CEO dispels Linspire Linux Myths
An anonymous reader writes "Chances are that you think Linspire lets you run Windows applications, that you have to run it as root, and that it's really not quite a proper Linux. Wrong, wrong, and wrong. At LinuxWorld in Boston this week, CEO Kevin Carmony explained what Linspire Linux is, and isn't all about. Carmony said that people are still getting these things wrong. Yes, in the beginning, Linspire had the goal of letting Linux users run Windows applications with WINE, but it dropped that theme years ago. As for requiring you to run as root, that was, Carmony said, only the case with an early alpha release that was never put in the public's hands. As for not being a real Linux, that's nonsense, too."
...By default. When you install Linspire, it sets you up as root by default. I know this because I supported it from Lindows 4 to Linspire Five-Oh. You have to go and manually add a user account, should you want one. That said, it is actually a lot more secure than people make out. There _is_ a lot of FUD about Linspire. For grannies and people who can't be bothered with technical things (including me, sometimes - I just want things that work) it's great.
I don't think anybody ever thought it wasn't linux, just that it was a CRAPPY version of linux. I also don't think too many people thought about linspire in terms of OS, more in terms of questionable politics.
Aren't they getting a bit ahead of themselves trying to dispel 'common myths' about Linspire when the vast majority of people have no idea what it is, let alone whether its main goal is to run Windows applications?
But here's the important thing. There's, like, ninety-six linux distributions. I already know that Ubuntu is friendly when you don't want to spend a lot of time configuring things, and Redhat is friendly to people in suits. But why the heck should I care about this one, Linspire? What, if anything, differentiates it from the other ninety-four linux distributions I don't personally have a use for at the present time? Because if there isn't a good answer to that question, it needs to go get back at the end of the line.
It strikes me as somewhat... odd. Especially coming from a CEO.
Maybe someone can put my vague feeling into words.
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
Many complaints I hear about moving over to unix like systems is the filesystem hierarchy. I think for a really easy-for-noobs and for grabbing windows users, I'd like to see a patched distro where /dev, /proc, /sys etc are moved to (for example) /system. Put them all together and move them where the users knows they're not gonna need to go into.
Could even have a chrooted dir with mount --binds to make a seperate namespace for unpatched/closed source apps.
We really could do with tidying the root. Yes it breaks compatibility with unpatched software, but as it is breaks compatibility with users.
(let the flaming commense)
The revolution will not be televised... but it will have a page on Wikipedia
My impression is that Lindows/Linspire has always been viewed as outside the world of "real Linux" because:
... off.
1) None of the ultra-user-friendly commercial distros have ever really caught on with the Linux enthusiast community.
2) Linspire's business plan has alwasy been based on charging users for installing sofware, something that is free everywhere else in the Linux world.
3) As #2 illustrates, there's always been something sleazy about Linspire. They appeared, making ludicrous claims about Windows compatability, stepping on Microsoft's trademark while prominently advertising rebadged KDE apps as their own, and they've been like that ever since. They may not do anything wrong but it's always
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I have read in the past some of this guy posts at Ubuntu forums (yes he sometimes open/reply threads there) and let me say he raises some good questions in several areas, in general i would say he manages to perfectly justify making a distro for dumb/proprietary human beings and recognizing Linspire is not a perfect distro ,neither one
destined to every single person out there.
Kudos for him at least for being modest and realistic.
Off course i will never use Linspire , Ubuntu plus a extra repos to the sources.list works fine for me.
def greetings(x): return {'friend': 'Howdy', 'enemy': 'Dye [sic]'}.get(x, 'g0 4w4y, l4m0r')
"Some people seem to think that Linux is a secret club, where you have to pay your dues before you can learn the secret handshake and run it."
Dude, dont even mention the Secret Shake! It's supposed to be a secret.
didn't like lindows at all... they reviewed the Walmart Lindows pcs. If you have a CR subscription (or know someone who does) it's a good article to read from the standpoint of understanding what still stands in the way of mainstream acceptance of these distros.
Seriously, Carmony really seems like a decent guy. Listen to him, you'll see what I mean. The Slashdot smart asses usually crap all over Linspire's quality, security, morality, business model, and so on and so on, but give the guy a chance, he's not all bad.
After reading TFA and reading about CNR, all I can say is... great. I had written off Linspire when I first read about it - the wine stuff that I knew was impossible and buggy... etc. But the philosophy is a good one: bring Linnux under the hood on a polished, housewife/housewide audience - not just the hackers.
I wish him all the best. Now I'll get back to trying to my dkpg-reconfigure and apt-get'ing the latest Ruby Gem from unstable while not upgrading my Standord C libs.
In reality, no OS has achieved the status of so simple yet so useful that grandma/sister/computer-novice can use without assistance.
... sort of like dealing with Windows sometimes.
I have some experience being the family IT support guy and got so sick of cleaning our viruses, spyware and other junk from my sister's computer that I bough her a computer with Linspire 4 on it thinking that it was the easiest Linux for her to adapt to. In the end, I can't say that it was any better or worse than any other distro. The Click-N-Run concept is a good one but it is was very poorly executed. It certainly *did* encourage users to run as root and was a PITA to set up as a multi-user system.
However, when things went wrong (as they do with any OS/Distro/computerized thing), I found that Linspire did things differently enough that it was very difficult to troubleshoot the problem, find help online and you ended up fighting with a system that tried to second guess you with automated scripts
In the end I switched her to another distro (Ubuntu) and now have just as many problems but I don't have to pay a subscription fee and, if I don't know the answer myself, I can find answers online extremely quickly since it doesn't deviate too far from upstream.
So all the power to Linspire in achieving that "easy enough for a novice to use" status but since we're not there yet, I would stick with a more maintainable distro like Ubuntu or Fedora Core.
People on Slashdot often speak of Linux as if it's a finite resource: that if Linspire takes off, it must mean distributions like Slackware or Debian or Gentoo are losing users. That's not true at all. Linspire's target market is a niche previously untapped (not even by Ubuntu or short-lived Caldera) of people who just want a workstation with a web browser, a word processor, a calculator and maybe solitaire. All the power to to Linspire for doing this. There's room in the Linux world for this. I think they're doing a useful thing, and if they come up with some good, non-crippling ideas that improve usability, perhaps other distros will benefit from their innovation one day too.
It was only a short time ago that Michael Robertson, CEO of Linspire said "I defy anybody to tell me why is it more secure to not run as root. Nobody really has a good answer. They say 'oh, yeah, it is!', but it really isn't."
I installed it on my wife's computer and my best friends,(both windows zealots), because they were constantly asking me to clean their computers. They would not use the tools they were given to work safely so... Linspire, and no more issues. I used wine to install IE for the wife because her job requires her to use IE only sites, other than that, it's all linux. they uses firefox at work, and the differences between OOO2 and ms office threw them at first but after a few, we do that this way...(kind of like going from office 95 too office 2k), they were both fine. Linspire pays it's mp3 tax and has a dvd player built into the distro so you have all the stuff they need. Plug in an HP multi-funct printer and scan, file, fax away . I don't use it because it is "behind", stable yes, but behind the bleeding/edge curve I like to stay on... :)
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
It's brain-dead morons like this guy spreading bald-faced lies that makes it hard for any commercial linux distribution to succeed...
The part where it REALLY is easy is software installation. They have a system called CNR (Click and Run) which costs $20/year, but it is well worth it. You get a icon on your desktop that you can click, then browse software categories. When you find something you like, just click the install button and voila, CNR downloads it, puts an entry in the Start menus and puts an icon on the desktop. No other distro that I know of does this with such ease.
Meh.
There are a few factors at play here ... and none of them are retardation :]
... just like the good ol' days! Some people manage to keep a nimble brain as they age but it takes mental exercise to do so and the vast majority of people let their brain get flabby. I don't blame them as the work environment is structured to flabbify your brain as you advance through it. Less precarious due to more power, less challenging, more specialization and leaning on previous experience, etc. Your kids' brain is still a knowledge sponge. :]
1) scope of usage:
If your 2 yr old is writing letters, emailing, printing, transferring pictures from their camera, burning music CDs, balancing their bank account, tracking their stocks, etc. then I will be impressed by your superior genes. However, many people have no problems doing the simple things like finding a game and playing it. Yet with complexity comes difficulty.
2) familiarity
If someone has learned a particular way of doing things, they have a tough time switching gears into a new paradigm/UI/menu structure. Your kid benefits from having a clean slate and will probably be hesitant to switch to anything else later on.
3) inflexibility
The older you get, the more inflexible you brain seems to get. You want things *your* way
So, sorry, you are not super-human.
The very first sneak preview of Linspire didn't have ANY way to add users, but we never released that commercially. That first sneak preview didn't have a lot of things in it! Not sure it even printed. =)
What Linspire does is during the install it has you first set up your Admin Password (root) and THEN takes you to a screen where you can add users, right during the install's install Wizard.
Kevin Carmony
CEO & President, Linspire, Inc.
For the record... I didn't set out to "set the record straight about Linspire myths." (That was just the fancy spin this reporter put on his story. =) I simply gave an address at LinuxWorld called "Desktop Linux Adoption by Mainstream Consumers." During my address I made mention to a few of the things that consumers DEMAND which Linspire provides, which then create problems for some in the Linux community. For example, we support DVD, MP3, Windows Media, Real Audio, QuickTime, Java, Flash, ATI drivers, nVidia drivers, etc. We do this because most consumers won't touch Linux without these things (heck, I wouldn't!) Most have iPods and other MP3 players and want their computer to work with them. They have DVD's and want their computer to play them. Linspire pleads guilty to supporting all of this out of the box, and for that, we're not always understood. If I really wanted to dispel myths about Linspire, I'd have started right here on Slashdot (I read more misinformation here than anywhere about all sorts of topics, not just Linspire =). Kevin Carmony CEO & President, Linspire, Inc.
I'm an IT geek by dayy, running a 200+ system Linux shop, and *I* am interested in Linspire at home. At home, I just want to install an OS and have everything work. I mkean *everything*. It sucks when my wife wants to do something basic, and I have to go download a bunch of stuff and try to make it work with my current version of Linux.
If you're not referring to the fact that they include some proprietary software, please explain. Otherwise just realize that Linux will never* get out of cult status in the home until it includes whatever is needed to make it Just Work.
A virus that infects the user account can destroy everything that matters. It can email my private data to anybody.
:-) It certainly couldn't make a wrapper for xterm or install itself as an X input method. :-)
I'll be generous, and say it can't change $PATH or define an alias for su or sudo.
What is protected? Oh, the OS itself. I got that from a CD-ROM. I don't even need a backup for that data. Heck, if it gets trashed, I'll use the opportunity to upgrade my OS.
We don't have real security until users get the ability to easily sub-divide their accounts using the full power of SE Linux. They also need "trusted path" (look it up) for controlling this.
Coming up next... a recipe for baked trolls :-)
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
I agree that there's a lot of unnecessary ill-will that's subconsciously and reflexively generated whenever we Linux geeks hear that some software costs money. Although Linux is predicated on software freedom ("free" software), we are too accustomed to zero-cost software ("free" software).
The quantity of quality zero-cost software is nothing short of astounding, for which I will always be grateful to the hacker community --but at the same time, it creates expectations that form a trap. We are used to leveraging our geek skills to gain certain "powers" (from a software Role-Playing-Game point of view) without having to pay, and it's almost like a return on our investment in being geeks. "You had to *buy* Photoshop?" you say to your roommate, your voice dripping with disdain. "*I* got GIMP for free!" (And then we get upset that Photoshop was pirated, of course. What's the use of being a geek if the non-geeks can get zero-cost software, too?)
But, for those of you who envision software freedom spreading throughout the world, let me ask you: where do you want the money to come from, in such a world, so that software businesses large and small can continue to flourish? Okay, I know the standard answers --payment for support, most software is within large companies, payment for reliable source of software, etc. etc.
The next question is: how do you think we should get there? After all, an "open world where there's no need for windows or gates" (tm) doesn't just pop into being; you have to make a transition. How do companies make money in a world where people will buy copies of copy-protected proprietary tax software for us$30, but not pay for zero-cost FOSS that can replace all of Microsoft Office (or even Microsoft Windows)?
In short, *should* we pay for software?
Linspire wants $20 to $50 to do C&R. Are they truly being sleazy? They're getting $$$ just to set up a server for distributing free Debian software! They're fooling people into paying money that users don't really have to pay!
And accounting company H&R Block charges for tax preparation services. How sleazy! They're getting $$$ for filling in forms you can get for free! They're fooling their customers into paying, when they can use a calculator for free!
We need to think before we bash Linspire's C&R service. They are being rewarded for filling a niche, or at least Linspire thinks so, and from our capitalist way of thinking, they should be admired. The fact that we geeks don't need C&R doesn't mean that Linspire is trying to pull a fast one, any more than we despise Barnes & Noble for trying to sell books like "Apache Security for Dummies" when *any* geek knows how easy it is to set up a chroot jail on a headless server --what a rip-off!
I'm not saying that the C&R service is perfect, and I have my own hesitations about having C&R. (I bought my own Lindows-preinstalled PC some years ago.) My main concerns are: 1) does it lock you into C&R, or will the standard Debian repositories be compatible? 2) Is the C&R software high quality (well-packaged)?
I think that Slashdot is a valuable place for discussing and criticising what's wrong with Linspire, and figuring out where we'd like Linspire to go (especially since Mr. Carmony himself seems to be participating in this discussion), but what I see instead is invalid and unnecessary bashing of C&R. I see a risk that this thread will terminate prematurely, before we can take advantage of our collective Slashdot intellect to analyze the actual situation.
Guys, the Linspire CEO is here. Wouldn't you like a chance to tell what you think to the leader of a company that might be poised to get Linux exposure in certain unique markets? If you do, there better be a bit more insight than "Linux good!" or "Linux for money bad!".
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]