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This Boring Headline is Written for Google

prostoalex writes "The New York Times is running an article on how newspapers around the country find their Web sites more dependent on search engines than before. The unexpected effect? Witty double entendres, allusions and sarcastic remarks are rewritten into boring straight-to-the-point headlines that rank higher on search engines and news-specific search engines. From the article: 'About a year ago, The Sacramento Bee changed online section titles. "Real Estate" became "Homes," "Scene" turned into "Lifestyle," and dining information found in newsprint under "Taste," is online under "Taste/Food."'"

90 of 317 comments (clear)

  1. Completely WRONG direction to take. by tinkertim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Used to be to start a fire you took two sticks of about the same size and .....

    We don't do that anymore. Just like companies that hope to market their news agencies have got to stop depending on search engines to reel in traffic. The sites that attract visitors through searches and make revenue by serving ads are established and have consumed the available market share.

    To be successful doing what they do, one of them has to go under right around the time you have something similar already seeding in search engines. Its quite a long waiting list folks.

    If you want to reach a niche news market you need to hit people during rush hour in their cars with radio advertisements, or find another way of luring them to your site and when they arrive your titles had better not be crafted for Google.

    Look at the explosion of over a million .eu domains, many of which are going to be those article-wiki type affiliate marketing sites and search engines are already crawling them. Sorry guys, but the days of putting up hundreds of pages of content and waiting for Google to do your marketing are gone.

    Don't re-write the titles, take the hint that what you're doing just isn't working. Either change your marketing strategy or re-evaluate the fiscal sanity of continuing to publish.

    Insanity is doing the same thing over, and over and over again yet expecting different results. The market is flooded - get creative in your advertising and MORE creative with your content and you may enjoy some success. Otherwise the sad fact is .. nobody is going to find you.

    Go take a look at shitlance and search for "need articles, need articles re-written, SEO content author". Trying to succeed doing what they're doing is like punching yourself in the nuts until you pass out.

    Completely *wrong* direction, imho.

    1. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by nacturation · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It used to be that to get modded up you could read the article leisurely, understand what it's talking about, and then post your comment at any time... letting the merit of what you wrote stand on its own.

      We don't do that anymore. These days, users become subscribers so that they can get first post and fool the moderators into thinking that what they wrote was insightful. Rather than discuss, as mentioned in the article, how a witty title that perhaps employs humor or puns is rewritten to something mundane so that a search engine can pick up on common keywords, people these days are engaging in what Linus Torvalds calls little more than a public wanking session trying to post comments more insightful than the rest.

      Don't try for first post. Instead, take the hint that your posts just aren't really all that informative nor insightful and re-evaluate the sanity of continuing to post such drivel. Go take a look at comments like this and realize that trying to succeed with content like that is like punching moderators in the nuts trying to get excellent karma.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    2. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by kfg · · Score: 5, Funny

      Used to be to start a fire you took two sticks of about the same size and .....

      then went looking for someone who actually knew how to start a fire, with two appropriately different sized sticks.

      KFG

    3. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by Dun+Malg · · Score: 3, Funny
      Used to be to start a fire you took two sticks of about the same size and .....

      then went looking for someone who actually knew how to start a fire, with two appropriately different sized sticks.

      Surely the second part of his unfinished sentence was: "...and bang them together while shouting 'someone give me matches!'"

      --
      If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
    4. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by tbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It used to be that to get modded up you could read the article leisurely, understand what it's talking about, and then post your comment at any time... letting the merit of what you wrote stand on its own.

      We don't do that anymore


      Why the hell was this modded as a troll? Granted, nacturation hasn't been around that long (hah! I mock your six-digit user ID), but he does seem to have hit the nail on the head with the extra big hammer.

      I know I've been guilty of replying to the first highly-modded comment, even though my reply had nothing to do with that comment, simply because that increased my visibility to moderators. I know I've been lazy as a moderator on occasion, and blown my mod points on the first half-decent posts I found when browsing "Oldest first". I have sinned myself, and so I know there is truth in what nacturation says.

      I hit the karma cap many years ago, and they now no longer even display its numeric value, so I can hardly see the point in continuing with such foolishness. Still, the way slashdot is set up encourages such things. What's the point in posting a comment if nobody will read it? Since the number of readers depends on the comment's score, which depends on how appealing it is to moderators and how early it was posted, we get these types of abuses.

      We'd probably be better off with a system where moderators were forced to browse at -1, newest first, and where early posts received a karma penalty unless they achieved a sufficiently high score in moderation. I don't see it happening, though.

    5. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by From+A+Far+Away+Land · · Score: 2, Informative

      On the Internet, my blog can be read as quickly or as widely as any newspaper, all it takes is a few good links on well read websites. This is why it's relavent to the discussion. Without proper tagging or headlining, it's entirely possible for a professional organization to end up with next to no readerhip.

    6. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by Guppy06 · · Score: 2, Funny

      "people these days are engaging in what Linus Torvalds calls little more than a public wanking session trying to post comments more insightful than the rest."

      Moderation: +1 Mentions Linus

    7. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by rolfwind · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think we'd be better off with a digg type system - anybody can upgrade or downgrade a comment. Comments have bigger or lower threshholds - -25 to +100 or something. Not every post downgraded should be consider crap, make browsing -4 and above default.

      I like digg style moderation better, it's more spur of the moment - I can sit there and say "wow, that was a good comment" or "that was really stupid" and assign a plus or minus point without hassle and spontaneously, when I feel like it.

      With /.'s system, everytime I have mod points, alway assigned to me when there are no decent article I like or don't feel like grading shit, I feel like a $8 an hour data entry clerk monkey or a middle school teach, trying to assign grades to the first f-ing posts I read to get it out of the way and not to "lose" my points.

    8. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by Ru55el · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Alas I work for a company that SWEARS by Google. GoogleAds get twice my annual salary every month from us and it amounts to... lots of dead leads. A veteran journalist / PRO-writer I am employed to make sure I write all my articles and website pages according to the Google-friendly template drawn up for me by a manager whose home language isn't English. I get crapped on if I deviate from the Holy Template. Any suggestions we try and break the mold and develop relations with the press to obtain credible editorial are laughed at. Of course I am looking for something else but you know what? Every company I try out for asks me the same question: "You can do Google Ads?" It's like the pre-windoze days when all a secretary had to do to get a job was know WordPerfect 5.1 yeesh In closing I recall a discussion I had with a former editor of the Jerusalem Post. He told me that all his jouralists use Google to find leads and implied I was a fool for suggsting otherwise. Investigative reporters have become librarians.

    9. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by tinkertim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >> These days, users become subscribers so that they can get first post and fool the moderators into thinking that what they wrote was insightful.

      I don't post to earn brownie points, I post because I like participating here. You read articles, and post your thoughts regarding them. I bought a subscription because I got sick of the ads (I thinK I complained about ads in my post .. ).

      You're welcome to challenge anything I have to say, but .. challenge it in a friendly way and I'm happy to banter. A blanket proclamation of suckage is the easy way out ;) If you're gonna rip into someone, *do it* .. get dirty and get specific and the recipient may give it merit.

      Otherwise you just sound like a rather un-happy person that for whatever reason spends way tooo much time in front of the computer.

      Hope you have a better day.

    10. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by tinkertim · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well it started off as a 4, now its a -1 .. so looks like someone called all of their buddies "HEY, you got mod points? Go mod this down .. " , thats just .. pathetic.

      It pisses me off because I spent time contributing, and now most people won't see it. I don't post just for the sake of doing it, I work in the business of helping people make sites successful and had some things to share. I don't care what people reply about it, the kick in the ass is because someone's ego got a boner nobody is going to even see the post.

      Last time I ever post when there are none. Apparently if you luck into the first post .. welp nobody will read it because the nazi regs don't agree with what you have to say. /. really needs to work on their mod system. I have 5's that should be 1's and -1's that should be 4's - and its consistently botched.

    11. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by larry+bagina · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I agree. Digg is not entirely unique, either. kuro5hin/scoop allow anyone to rate a comment (though they show the average rating, and ratings aren't as meaningful as digg or /.).

      I've heard that a new rating system is in the pipelines. Good. A Javascript/AJAX implementation shouldn't suffer from "scalability" problems that the /. programmers are always complaining about.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    12. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by joe+155 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'll agree with you to some exent, there is a problem with the system that /. uses, but perhaps it is the best of the bad systems we have to choose from. The things I like about it include that it is harder to get mod points, meaning by the time people get them they should "get" how things should be and achieve a level of maturity within the system. One thing that I really dislike though is what I will call the "mod flame war", I've had comments modded up to 5 by people who agreed with me and then down to 0 by people who disagreed. What should matter should be the quality of the arguement (regardless of if you agree/disagree). The this though is a problem with anything though, we will never have a system of objectivity and I don't think the digg system comes anywhere close to addressing that problem. Maybe if people had more of an opportunity to talk about how they think the system could be made better, perchance a suggestions box system and the editors pick out the best ideas and arrange something resembling a referendum? Further I think a problem far worse is the people who post anonomously just so they can say something idiotic or racist, they post at 0 and then a moderator rightly mods them down to -1, which wastes a point, would getting rid of anonamous posting (or making them always post at -1) and then make modding pretty much only a possitive thing (aside from an option for things that are openly offensive in the extreme with no merit as a logical arguement) and introducting a system of karma as a number that will disapate on its own after not being modded up for a while (to a point of equalibria at about 1) be a better system?

      Anyway, thats just my considered response to you...

      --
      *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
    13. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by pla · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Any suggestions we try and break the mold and develop relations with the press to obtain credible editorial are laughed at.

      Of course they laugh at you for such suggestions!

      I really don't see the problem here... If the topic involved writers of fiction, writers of poetry, some form of "artistic" endeavor, I would say that writing-to-Google could destroy it.

      But the topic does NOT involve "art", it involves NEWS. Writers (supposedly) of "fact".

      If Google forces every journalist on the planet to stop thinking themselves "cute", if it finally and fully destroys the abomination of filler they call "human interest", if it means I can read a story about a dead cat and not mistake it for a physics pun (or vice-versa), I applaud the change Google has forced on journalists!


      My advice - Don't fight a positive change for your profession. Embrace it. Google has made it possible for anyone with an interest in your story, whether you write for the NYT or the East Nowhere Gazette, to find and read your words. It has also, as a POSITIVE side effect, forced you to stick to the point and not assume airs that you create some form of art. It even makes basic fact-checking a 30-second (rather than all day) task.

      You can either use all of that to your benefit, or complain that it forces you to do your job better. But whichever you choose, keep in mind that Google has also lowered the bar for entry - Any of a million bloggers could (though you can take comfort that very few do) decide to post about something more interesting than what Sam said Hunter did to Crystal and how much it pissed off Joey.

    14. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by nutshell42 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Absolutely not.

      If I look at digg, the percentage of idiotic, flamebait and stupid-but-common-misconception posts that are modded up and of witty, insightful and thought-provoking posts that are modded down is disheartening.

      Yes there are stupid mods on /.; a number of my posts have been modded down because the mod simply didn't know what he was doing or because he had an ax to grind (or modded up for the same reasons =). But overall the situation's much better here especially when the discussion's about things that tend to end in flamewars (Apple, Linux DEs etc =)

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
    15. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by Ru55el · · Score: 3, Interesting

      As a search engine Google is great. The one beef I have about Google-driven news is in terms of me obtaining credible editorial for my company. I would much rather it was solicited by journo's genuinely interested in what we have to say, and offer, rather than print our PR verbatim. When Joe Bloggs reads a press release in PC Mag he can see it for what it is, just another advertorial. Why should he believe it? Nor do I believe it's an 100% positive change for the profession I am in in as it forces publications to pick up on wire service releases to please the advertisers; not the man in the street. While that may bring home the bacon for one and all it certainly stifles investigative journalism, which means the man in the street - while happy to be fed kittypoo all day long - is left in the dark as to what is going on under his nose.

    16. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by pla · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nor do I believe it's an 100% positive change for the profession I am in in as it forces publications to pick up on wire service releases to please the advertisers; not the man in the street. While that may bring home the bacon for one and all it certainly stifles investigative journalism

      Ah, then I owe you an apology. On that point, we agree - Entirely too much news has turned into cookie-cutter ripoffs on what the Big Boys decide to cover.

      I had taken your earlier post as more of a stylistic complaint than content-based. My error, sorry.

    17. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by Scrameustache · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think that disagreeing with someone is a perfectly good reason to mod someone down. In fact, when it comes down to it, that's the only criterion you can really have.

      Really not! You can find the information to be unrealiable, you undo an 'informative' moderation. Or you notice a redundent post, you cull the posts. Stuff like that.
      Trying to silence the voices of those you don't agree with isn't a perfectly good way to use moderation points.

      Being modded down is criticism, not censorship.

      No, THIS is criticism.
      Modding down someone into the noise of the crowd IS censorship. You're trying to make it as hard as possible for people to get to the comment you disagree with by hiding it in a bunch of idiotic trolls, flameguerillas and spams..

      Yeah, when I mod down a troll, I act as censor (2nd def.). I'm fine with that, not everythng that is said deserves to be heard... unless you want to.

      --

      You can't take the sky from me...

    18. Re:Completely WRONG direction to take. by mcguyver · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >The sites that attract visitors through searches and make revenue by serving ads are established and have consumed the available market share.
      This is wrong or at best, misleading. Online advertising continues to grow. New publishers succeed. New niches are discovered. Competition increases but online advertising continues to florish.

      >Sorry guys, but the days of putting up hundreds of pages of content and waiting for Google to do your marketing are gone.
      Welcome to yesterdays news. Doorway pages do not work. Pumping out content is over. Quality content however is still king.

      >Don't re-write the titles, take the hint that what you're doing just isn't working. Either change your marketing strategy or re-evaluate the fiscal sanity of continuing to publish.
      So what you're saying is if your site is not SEO friendly then don't bother improving it? Or are you saying change your keyword titles? I'm confused.

      >The market is flooded - get creative in your advertising and MORE creative with your content and you may enjoy some success. Otherwise the sad fact is .. nobody is going to find you.
      This I agree with. SEO as your only form of marketing has been dead for a while. Search engines are too smart. Quality, creative content is necessary. The Sacramento Bee updating their keyword titles is just a response to the industry. It's the right thing to do. Better synonym matching and semantic improvements could help this situation so maybe we should blame this on inferior search engines?

  2. Maybe I should apply to be a journalist by jpopper · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm boring, straight to the point, and can't be creative even if my life was on the line. Hire me!

  3. Maybe this ain't so bad by TopShelf · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Personally, I can think of nothing that would improve newspapers more than getting rid of those idiotic puns often seen in headlines...

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    1. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Breakfast+Pants · · Score: 2, Funny

      But Slashdot isn't a newspaper, is it?

      --

      --

      WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
    2. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Shimdaddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Idiotic puns? The English language is a beautiful one and not everything is about efficiency, speed and clarity. If it were, we'd all read dictionaries for fun and teach our children Lojban. I, for one, celebrate the wordplay practiced by newspapers and think it's intriguing.

    3. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by goldfita · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree. It becomes irritating. I just find it amusing that the content on the web is being written for machines instead of the people make the content worth billions of dollars. Content should be made for human consumption, not HAL. Hopefully the bots will get better to the point that it doesn't really matter.

    4. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by tuxedobob · · Score: 4, Insightful

      90% of puns are bad.

      100% of newspaper puns are bad.

      I'd rather read Variances and Zoning Volume XIV.

    5. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by onebecoming · · Score: 3, Informative

      I find the Economist's headlines, subheads, and captions often to be laugh-out-loud funny. The editors there seem to be fond of dry wit and black humo(u)r. I can't be alone in appreciating their work.

    6. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by onebecoming · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Happily, in the past couple decades, I think we've seen the pendulum start swinging back towards the acceptance, even celebration, of literary style in journalism (no, you cheapshooting Slashbots, I'm not talking about Jayson Blair). For too long--if a relatively brief anomaly in the long history of news publication--readability and human interest were sacrificed to a false god of objectivity, while dryness of content, not wit, was considered the sole criterion of journalistic merit. You had your occasional Hunter Thompson, sure, but only on the fringe. Now, you see the Observer (while still bleeding money) and even frontpage stories in the Times adopting a more conversational, personal tone, and Anderson Cooper sobbing into the camera on live TV. All this perhaps in response to the mass popularity of blogs and other firsthand sources of information. It'll be interesting to see where this leads. Pardon my bloviation.

    7. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by D+H+NG · · Score: 2, Funny
    8. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by onebecoming · · Score: 2, Funny
      Oh, c'mon, lighten up! Who among us could resist headlines like:
      SOMOZA SLAIN BY BAZOOKA
      (News, 1980)

      HEADLESS BODY IN TOPLESS BAR
      (New York Post, 1982)

      CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR
      (Senate fails to convict Clinton; News, 1999)
      ...and my most recent favorite:
      COPS MAKE BUTT-ER KNIFE CON SPREAD 'EM
      (Post, natch)
      On second thought, maybe you're right.
    9. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Scott+Swezey · · Score: 2

      I know what you mean. I saw this on a popular news site earlier... Blue Ring Around Uranus I can only imagine where things went with that!

      --
      Scott Swezey
    10. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by raoul666 · · Score: 3, Funny

      This just reminded me of a story a teacher of mine passed along, which he heard from someone on the staff at a respected big-city newspaper.

      Brezhnev, leader of the USSR, had just died, and so the staff of the paper was gathered to write up an article about his life, politics, death, etc. etc. Obviously, this would be front page news. The article was written quickly and easily enough, but the editorial staff argued for over 6 hours straight over whether or not to run it with the headline "HEAD RED DEAD."

      Sadly, they decided against it.

      --
      When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl
    11. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by MartinB · · Score: 4, Funny

      A journalist friend of a friend once made up an entire story about a library in Essex having its book budget cut just so he could use the headline (altogether now...):

      BOOK LACK IN ONGAR

      While a student, working on the campus newspaper, some anarchists invaded the stage at the student theatre, the Bedlam. This let me write the priceless (to my 20 yo ears) headline:

      BEDLAM ANARCHY CHAOS

      --

      The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's

    12. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Varitek · · Score: 5, Funny

      Oh, come on. "Headless body found in topless bar" is a work of genius. "Sick Gloria in transit Monday", also.

    13. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Tim+Browse · · Score: 5, Funny

      I once worked for a Flight Simulator company, who came up with a rather innovative solution to the problem of displaying lights, especially at simulated night-time. The simulators cockpits are basically surrounded by a big curved mirror, onto which the final rasterised image is projected, to give a wraparound view. The projectors were called SPX projectors.

      They found that if they just put the lights into the rasterised image that was displayed on the mirror, it looked a bit rubbish - pixelated, aliased etc. So someone came up with the idea of plotting point lights during the flyback period - they could control the beam on the way back to show up to N points of light (by flicking the beam on momentarily). I forget what N was. It looked significantly better, which is important when you're training to fly at night, as pretty much all you can see are landing lights, so you notice if it looks bad.

      Anyway, they came up with the term 'calligraphic' to describe this technique - something to with it the beam being used in a more analogue, continuous way, I guess.

      The real reason was, of course, so they could give the product this name:

      Super Calligraphic Raster SPX Projectors

      I apologise on their behalf.

    14. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by jdcook · · Score: 2, Funny

      My all time favorite magazine cover is the Spetember 10-16, 1994 Economist which bears the headline "The Trouble with Mergers" which features two camels humping and the female looks decidedly unhappy. And yes, I used humping deliberately.

      --
      Q:How many libertarians does it take to stop a Panzer division? A:None. Obviously market forces will take care of it.
    15. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by Jeremi · · Score: 2, Insightful
      For too long [...] readability and human interest were sacrificed to a false god of objectivity


      Yes, and now the only thing sacrificed to the false god of objectivity is basic reason and logic. "NASA scientists say that the sky is blue and the Earth orbits around the sun, but not all agree: here is an opposing view from Mr. P. Gumby about how the sun is actually a piece of brightly colored yellow paper taped to a giant eggshell that surrounds the Earth. Which is correct? We'll report both sides and leave it to our viewers to decide."

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    16. Re:Maybe this ain't so bad by mykdavies · · Score: 3, Funny

      On a similar vein, when Inverness Caledonian Thistle Football Club managed the unlikely feat of beating Celtic 3-1 in February 2000, the Sun headline was:

      Super Caley go ballistic, Celtic are atrocious

      --
      The world has changed and we all have become metal men.
  4. This is a good thing by matt21811 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Witty or sensational headlines don't just deceive search engines.
    Human readers can get fooled just as easily. Heres an example:

    I was doing research to show that Kryder's Law (a kind of super Moore's Law for hard disks that says bit densities have increased factor of 1000 in 10.5 years meaning a doubling every 13 months) is no longer being achieved by hard drive manufacturers. Instead I discovered that Kryders Law was just a creation of Wikipedia's overenthusiastic editors that misinterpreted a single Scientific American headline. Wikipedia editors accidentally invented the "law", and it isn't even correct.

    You can read about it at my site here: http://www.mattscomputertrends.com/Kryder's.html

    The search engines are dong us all a favor getting rid of this problem.

    1. Re:This is a good thing by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but did you change the wikipedia entry to reflect that? :-) Thanks for pointing it out, I'm headed there now. Mind if I link you on the talk page?

    2. Re:This is a good thing by dsci · · Score: 2, Funny

      search engines are dong us all

      Truer words were never spoken.

      --
      Computational Chemistry products and services.
    3. Re:This is a good thing by David+Hume · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There may be two other factors involved such that the trend to write headlines in this way would remain even if there was no "Google / crawler" bias.

      First, I think newspapers on the web have a far broader, and less knoweldgeable (or at least less "locally" knowledgeable) audience than their paper brethren. I know before the web I would read the LA Times (I'm in LA), the NY Times, and *maybe* the Washington Post. Now, I read newspapers from all over the U.S. and the U.S. and the world. In that setting puns, allusions, double entendres, sarcastic remarks, etc. don't work for me. I'm supposed to understand puns in headlines from the Pakistan Times? Sophisticated allusions from the Soweto Daily? I don't think so. Even headlines from Birmingham, Alabama that require I'm knowledgeable about "obvious" local knowledge? No. Just give me a "boring" headline that might catch my interest and that I can understand.

      Second, I recently read that English is, or soon will be, the first language in the history of the world where more people speak it as a second language than speak it as their first language. This is expected to have an impact on the evolution of English. I think it will have an effect of "dumbing down" the language on the Net. The New York Times and Chicago Tribune headline writer is now thinking of his audience in Japan, Korea, etc.

    4. Re:This is a good thing by Echnin · · Score: 2, Informative

      I doubt more people speak Latin as a first language than as a second language. In addition, you have constructed languages like Esperanto and ancient languages like Coptic, which have no native speakers at all (there are children brought up whose parents speak Esperanto who can arguably be said to speak it as their native language but this number must be quite small). It sounds like a dubious statistic. Looking up on Wikipedia, there are 182 million speakers of French, of whom 87 are native. Of course, the significance of English as a second language is great at this point in time, and I am certainly a contributor to the number of English speakers who have it as their second language. It will be interesting to see if Mandarin will overtake it during this century.

      --
      Lalala
    5. Re:This is a good thing by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I completely agree.

      English is my third language. I'm capable of talking to people online without problems, and can read technical manuals and books just fine. However, I wouldn't get even half of the witty headlines.

      To put a few examples from the comments here:

      "Super Calligraphic Raster SPX Projectors": This would take a while to sink in, but I'd eventually get it, having seen part of the movie. Have in mind though that not all movies are translated so literally that you can tell a reference to something in English when you've only seen the Spanish dub.

      "Foot Heads Arms Body": This would be completely puzzling, as I've never heard of Michael Foot. Just that stops me from getting at all what is it about, even though I have heard about the IRA. Changing it to "Michael Foot Heads Arms Body" would give me a clue, but still require thinking about what arms body they're talking about, as the IRA isn't in the news often here.

      "Headless body found in topless bar": Easy.

      "Sick Gloria in transit Monday": Don't get it.

      "Schizophrenic man rapes woman and flees.": Interpreted literally, I assume there's more there than I can see.

      "CLOSE BUT NO CIGAR": Don't get it. Heard the expression but never found the meaning.

      "COPS MAKE BUTT-ER KNIFE CON SPREAD 'EM": Don't get it.

      Despite any atrocious grammar mistakes that could be above, my knowledge of English is very good by local standards. Most people coming out of school here wouldn't be able to finish even the Harry Potter books, as it'd take them months to read one of the large ones, with constant use of a dictionary.

    6. Re:This is a good thing by sconeu · · Score: 2, Funny

      ooking up on Wikipedia, there are 182 million speakers of French, of whom 87 are native.

      And all 87 of those people live in Quebec.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    7. Re:This is a good thing by Fnkmaster · · Score: 3, Informative


      "Sick Gloria in transit Monday": Don't get it.

      This has nothing to do with your knowledge of English and everything to do with your knowledge of Latin. "Sic transit gloria mundi" means "thus passes the glory of the world". It's apparently recited as part of the papal coronation ceremony. Anyway, 98% of Americans would not get this either. But that's not the point - for those who do, it's funny. :)


      "Close but no cigar"

      Not a pun at all. There's nothing to get here - it's just a saying that means "close, but you missed the target". Either you know what the saying means or not, there's no way to figure it out. Apparently a reference to the mid-1900s practice of giving out cigars as prizes at local fairs for winning contests.

      "Foot Heads Arms Body"
      This would mean nothing to an American either (well, an American would get the pun value, but not know who Foot was or what Arms Body they were talking about).

      "COPS MAKE BUTT-ER KNIFE CON SPREAD 'EM"

      This one I didn't get until I looked at the story either, it doesn't really parse even to a well-educated native English speaker. Basically, this pun is only funny even to a native speaker if you know the story behind it (that the con was hiding the butter knife in his butt and the cops had to umm... search his orifices for the knife).

      So... give yourself more credit. Most of what you didn't get was pretty much impossible to get, or has nothing to do with the English language. :)

    8. Re:This is a good thing by vadim_t · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Certainly not, I'm taking about the specific case here: Headlines for google.

      This stuff makes perfect sense for local newspapers, where 90% of the audience can be assumed to be native, and to know what's going on in that specific area. But online is a different world, where content is equally available to everybody.

      Also, things like RSS allow very quick scanning of headlines without seeing pictures or text, which almost guarantees that many people will ignore something they don't get at first glance. Reducing your audience in this way seems counterproductive.

      They're, IMO, just different worlds. In a newspaper you try to get some extra audience by getting people interested, trying to get a reaction of "that's clever", or "wonder what is it about". Online you have vast amounts of people that are actively searching and filtering information, looking for something specific. You'll get them by being direct and to the point.

  5. Content by Dante+Shamest · · Score: 5, Funny

    If a site's content is good, people come regardless.

    Slashdot's popularity is an anomaly though...

    1. Re:Content by T-Ranger · · Score: 2, Funny

      I always liken it to Saturday Night Live. Every time you come/watch you say to yourself "damm, I remember back in the day when this was good". And then you realized that it always sucked.

  6. i think its the journalists by caffeinemessiah · · Score: 2, Interesting

    why on earth would you write an article about the style of headlines in Google's news aggregation? it really isn't like Google is creating its own summary by mashing all the aggregated news articles together. some reporter somewhere wrote that dry headline.

    --
    An old-timer with old-timey ideas.
  7. Re:Kryder's Law by hackwrench · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Some formulation of the hard disk law has been around long before the SciAm article. It seems to me that some Wikipedia author remembered such a variation, went looking for "verifiability" found the SciAm article, slapped Kryder's name onto the "Law" and voila! Kryder's Law was born!

  8. Re:Kryder's Law by matt21811 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Some formulation of the hard disk law has been around long before the SciAm article"

    Yes, and that law was called Moore's Law. I think the role of an encyclopedia is to document, not invent.

  9. Revert the Pyramids by n8k99 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe now the articles will be written in a manner which actually resemble a story rather than having a fistful of facts crammed down your throat in burst of staccato like phrases. It would be quite an innovation for the newspapers to tell stories that make you want to read them rather than wrap your fish. Might even include some room for style to enter into the picture.

    --
    For some reason my fountain pen doesn't work here.
  10. Two headlines? by laughingcoyote · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Would it be that hard to develop a standard (perhaps much like meta-tagging), giving one set of data easily digestible by the bots (and not displayed to the human reader), while retaining an entertaining writing style for human consumption? Computers don't always have an easy time digesting data a human would find simple to understand, and vice-versa. Shouldn't that generally be acknowledged by design? (Disclaimer: I don't do much work with web design. If you do and you know why this hasn't been done or won't work, please let me know.)

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    1. Re:Two headlines? by Anthony+Boyd · · Score: 5, Informative
      Would it be that hard to develop a standard (perhaps much like meta-tagging), giving one set of data easily digestible by the bots (and not displayed to the human reader), while retaining an entertaining writing style for human consumption?

      That won't ever happen (or more precisely, if it ever happens, it will fail). The problem is that we've done that before with the meta tags you mentioned. See what the SEO world has to say about them (summary: they're nearly useless now). Here's the deal. Any time you create a system for someone to deliver one thing to search engines and another thing to humans, what happens is a small group of opportunists will create massively spammy porn pages for human viewing, while making the search-engine content about every popular topic under the sun. You'll see a headline-made-for-Google which reads, "Britney Spears on Will and Grace" but when you click it, the headline-for-humans reads, "3 lesbian midgets have a pee party!"

    2. Re:Two headlines? by tbo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Would it be that hard to develop a standard (perhaps much like meta-tagging), giving one set of data easily digestible by the bots (and not displayed to the human reader), while retaining an entertaining writing style for human consumption?

      As another poster pointed out, something like this is already possible, via CSS and/or meta tags. The problem is that the system gets abused. Scammers will feed "NATALIE PORTMAN NAKED AND PETRIFIED" or some other high-demand content as the headline to Google, while hapless human users get to see Cialis ads and penis enlargement spam. Naturally, search engine designers know about this and use countermeasures to punish sites that send different content to webcrawlers and users, on the assumption that such tricks are usually employed for malicious purposes. The collateral damage is any site that actually has a legitimate reason to serve different content to webcrawlers than to users.

      I know from personal experience that designing for Google has had a negative impact on the aesthetics of my wife's website. Some might argue that designing for Google usually results in a "slimmer" design with more text and less unnecessary images, but when your website is about something visual (say, art), that can be counterproductive. Also, making a (visual) art site have better support for screenreaders seems kind of pointless, and maybe even cruel. What would the ALT tags say? "A really nice painting--too bad you can't see it".

    3. Re:Two headlines? by Turakamu · · Score: 2, Informative

      Would it be that hard to develop a standard (perhaps much like meta-tagging), giving one set of data easily digestible by the bots (and not displayed to the human reader), while retaining an entertaining writing style for human consumption?

      Like the keyword meta? It was a tag designed specifically so content authors could assist the search engines to classify the information easily, without poluting the readable canvas. Very useful in theory.

      Search engines stopped using the keyword data as search engine optimisers (vile opportunistic scum that they are) abused the mechanism with words that weren't relevant to the page. Selfish human behaviour destroys another opportunity to make life better for everybody else. Personally I'd like to see them tacked on the anti-spam legislation.

  11. Ugh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    The Sacramento Bee changed online section titles. "Real Estate" became "Homes," "Scene" turned into "Lifestyle," and dining information found in newsprint under "Taste," is online under "Taste/Food."'"

    "Sex" turned into "Scatting on a midget who's being busy with a horse"

  12. Writing for Alta Vista, maybe. by scaryjohn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I thought the boring, machine-readable stuff (i.e., not just headlines) was supposed to be in metadata. No need to do a hatchet job on a descriptive or witty title. Of course, I just may be an old codger in Internet time.

    What's more, I thought the whole point of Pagerank was to make your page associated with what others think your page is about... that if your obituary about Gene Pitney is entitled "Tulsa star: The life and career of much-loved 1960's singer." it'll show up in a search for Gene Pitney because (hopefully) that string will be indexed from the page body and that as other people associate your page with Pitney — irrespective of the <title> that obituary will float towards the top. And if they use your witty title, not only will you get more popular for "Gene Pitney", but also "Tulsa Star" as well.

    But there are unwashed masses that do use other search engines, but I thought the last people to rely absolutely on metadata were Alta Vista and WebCrawler.

    --
    One might ask the same about birds. What ARE birds? We just don't know.
  13. Re:Creativity in Journalism? by prockcore · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I thought most journalists were already "creative" enough without needing to put miserable puns in their headlines.

    Copy editors write the headlines, not journalists. That explains why you get those kitshy headlines in the first place, it's their only creative outlet.

  14. GOOOOD by tehwebguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the author didn't seem to consider the possibility that readers prefer this..

    i personally would rather actually know what articles are about based on their headlines, than be tricked into reading something by a misleading headline. most headlines aren't "creative", so much as they are "dishonest" in the newspaper.

    i skim through my university's paper every other week, and i usually am reminded why i don't read it more often.

    --
    -- lol pwned
    1. Re:GOOOOD by corblix · · Score: 2, Interesting
      the author didn't seem to consider the possibility that readers prefer this.

      Indeed. As I see it, this is obviously a good thing. Putting a negative spin on it is bizarre, from the reader's POV.

      On the other hand, I can see why journalists might not like it. And the author is a journalist.

  15. Google will blacklist you for that. by YesIAmAScript · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's in essence what happened to BMW.

    Google doesn't like you presenting different data to their search engine than the user would find if they visited. And I can easily see why. Sites would abuse the heck out of it.

    See this link amongst many.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4685750.stm

    --
    http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
  16. Direct, Content Relevant Headlines Are Good by Soong · · Score: 5, Informative

    (notice my to-the-point headline)

    Really, not only is it good for search engines, it's good for my brain's relevance filter for trying to see if I care about the story the headline points to.

    --
    Start Running Better Polls
  17. Re:Creativity in Journalism? by kfg · · Score: 2, Funny

    Copy editors write the headlines

    I've got a few of those among my family and friends.

    One of them lost his job over "32 Scoot to Shoot with Plane Aflame."

    I'm afraid I wasn't terribly sympathetic.

    KFG

  18. Re:Isn't there a way... by NetSettler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I can use CSS to give the tag an image, and shift the plain-text version of the content off to the side so it doesn't appear on graphical browsers

    I completely agree with the spirit of your remark insofar as you're suggesting that technology can trivially solve this problem.

    Not just for this, but for an international audience generally (many of whom read English but have trouble with idioms, sarcasm, and other advanced usages), it wouldn't hurt to have an XML or HTML markup that is, effectively, the ability to associate a plainer meaning to text for alternate use. A browser could be put in a mode to show the fancy use, show the basic use, or show the fancy use but with plain use pop-ups like tool tips (or plain-use explanation-on-demand-by-right-click). Doing it this way would allow search engines to offer a radio button saying "search idiomatic uses" which was, perhaps, defaultly off, but that could be re-enabled if the witty text was what stuck in your mind.

    Good headlines are like good subject lines in mail. One of the best subject lines I ever saw in email was the text "crowbar in head". No, it wasn't about crowbars, it was about a "brain-damaged program" someone was alleged to have written. It might be a bad search keyword if I was searching for info on crowbars literally, but it is very easy for me to find in old mail because it was unique and easy to remember. I would hate to see the net move away from the ability to make useful labels.

    I also worked at a company where the User Interface people got overzealous and started to rename all the editor commands from things like "View xxx" and "Show xxx" and "Print xxx" and so on to just "Show xxx" because they thought that was more regular. But at some point someone noticed that the emacs-style command keys like Control-V (formerly mnemonic for View) no longer made sense. Those UI people were soon pejoratively nicknamed the "View Police" because their entire focus seemed to be on stamping out flexible use of language. People started to rightly question whether eliminating all the synonyms in the language was good, because it meant every time you searched for "Show" you got a zillion hits and every time you searched for "View" you got zero. There are times when this is right and times when this is absolutely wrong, but the problem is not fixed by renaming commands. A better fix would be to have search commands that understand likely synoyms and then the option to turn that on and off. I think that lesson might apply here, too.

    So I think there's a lot you could do with, for example, an extended USAGE="sarcasm|wit|pun|joke|..." MEANING="this is a rewording" attribute in, for example, a SPAN element of HTML, for example.

    What I don't agree with is doing something like making an IMG tag that has sarcasm or wit or whatever in it and then having the ALT attribute for the IMG element use the plain text. The reasons are many, but include such issues as: eventually Google will search text found in images so it's a temporary solution, people on non-image-based browsers (including the sight-impaired) deserve access to wit, and, most fundamentally, the whole point of markup is that it allows a flexible ability to tag things with their true nature. The true nature is not "wit is graphical and plain meaning is text"; that's just a way to shoehorn a solution into existing frameworks.

    (If this is not what you meant, then I've misread you and would appreciate a more detailed explanation of what you're going after.)

    --

    Kent M Pitman
    Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  19. Not about search engines by JanneM · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is really only tangentially about search engines. It's really about people finding things by searching, rather than by browsing, today.

    It used to be a potential reader would be standing in front of a magazine stand, or leafing idly through a newspaper. To grab that reader, a witty, slightly hard-to-understand headline was great - it catches your attention and makes you at least look closer since you want to know what that mysterious piece is actually about. And thus you made the single-copy sale, and perhaps, in time, sold a subrscription.

    Today we increasingly don't start by picking up a paper and looking within for what we want; we find things by searching for what we want and end up on anyone of a large number of newspapers and magazine sites. The choice of paper isn't the start of the process - the search is. And when we search, that witty off-color headline is going to mislead us since it doesn't actually contain the key terms that would indicate relevance. Making headlines and summaries clear, straight and to the point isn't about pandering to search engines, but of adjusting to the changing behavior of the readership.

    It's the reader behavior that has changed. The search engine angle is just a smokescreen.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
  20. Why are so many people threatened by puns? by nugneant · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I personally like them. Give me some dry wit - or "32 Scoot to Shoot with Plane Aflame" (see comments above) - over a boring summary of the facts any day of the week. Personally, I'm apt to think this is symptomatic of the decay within our society - but then again, I'm apt to think that over the latest Steven Spielberg movie as well, so go figure. Really, it harkens back to a day when those who read the paper, read the entire newspaper, and thusly would know the entire news. The headlines were there more to prepare your mind for the inevitable than to attract the reader's eye. This USA Today trend of posting full color buzzwords on the front page, so Joe Schmoe can skim it and knows what names to drop around the water cooler today, has got to stop.

    -1 Flamebait out of the way, it's time to go for my weak attempt at +1 Insightful:

    Wouldn't it be relatively simple for Google to allow newspapers the use of "alt" or "meta" tags for their headlines? Considering there's a small, reasonably finite number of trusted news sources, couldn't some sort of whitelist be easily implemented?

  21. obvious solution by jdbartlett · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Obvious solution: use images to display the witty section names (scene) and alt text and hidden span text displaying the boring name (lifestyle). With a little work, the same could be applied to headlines.

  22. Re:Isn't there a way... by MikeFM · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why shift content off screen when you can just tell it to not display it with your CSS? that's one of those things people do that I can't really see the point of (shifting, not hiding). Is there a benefit to only shifting it?

    Be warned that you need to block your stylesheets from being crawled though if you try to hide text from users with CSS because search engines can mistake (or be correct in some cases) that as spamming and kill your search placement because of it.

    It's a handy way to put more keywords in pages that users might not want to see. So you can put "Scene [Lifestyle]" and only have the user see the word "Scene" so you are actually helping people find you. Something I do is include common differences in how to write part numbers in that kind of hidden text. On my site the users can search and find stuff by that hidden text but they won't see it because it'd be confussing to them. I go ahead and include it in the page source though so that people searching on Google, Yahoo, etc can also find those pages. Pretty much what the keywords meta tag probably should be used for but isn't since search engine spammers devalued those tags.

    --
    At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
  23. good by penguin-collective · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Newspapers should focus on the news. Unfortunately, ours are trying to provide entertainment, sensationalism, titillation, thrills, and witticisms. Lets hope that, after the gimmicky double-entendre headlines are gone, we can also get rid of these other misfeatures of journalism. And, yes, the NYT is one of the biggest offenders.

  24. Re:Isn't there a way... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is an even better method for keeping witty headlines *and* be ranked in top position with google : pr0n. Here are some sample headlines :

    - UN concerned about Iraq and free hentai
    - Pope Benedict XVI replaces John Paul II in bondage
    - France strikers and Natalie Portman arrested

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
  25. Search Engine Optimisation is a misconception by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Search Engine optimisation is a contradiction in term

    How come does anybody, not to speak of web designers, get the stupid idea that one has to optimise ones website for search engines anyway? Isn't that totally backwards? I should optimise my website for *users* and their expierience and the general webstandards. If the search engine is to stupid to find content on my site that is relative to a search, then it certainly isn't my job to optimise for them. That's the job of search engines themselves. That's where the name comes from.
    Guess why Altavista missed out when Google appeared. The had the more optimised search engine.

    I allways thought (and still think) that so-called webdesigners that offer their customers 'search engine optimisation' (whatever that's supposed to be) to be the used-car sales and multilevel marketing lot of IT field. Some shady semi-professionals offering some non-product. Whenever I'm finished building a Web CMS Site for customers I take the time to feed the URL into the searchbots so they do the first scan of the site more quickly, but that's it. If anyone comes to me bickering about the bad search results a searchengine comes up with I usually tell them that if the searchengine sucks, they should use a different one. It's that simple, really.

    Bottom line:
    If you're doing *anything* on the web, forget about search engines and just build a good site. If your site is good and the search engine is good, both will find each other fast. All else is just bogus.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  26. Re:Creativity in Journalism? by mashade · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I don't really mind drab headlines as long as the point is clear. What really gets my goat are authors that think they're being clever when they twist a headline's grammar simply to insert that lovely pause -- the comma -- thus saving a word or two.

    You've all seen it before, but for example:

    In house, wife murders husband

    By all, a good time had

    On spring break, not taking it Easy

    I couldn't think of many good examples, (the last is taken from washingtonpost.com) but I'm sure you see my point. Why bother? It sounds dumb. It looks dumb. And in the case of my silly examples above, doesn't even save a character.

    Stop twisting the headlines to make them sound like bad headlines.

    Wit is good; puns are fine. God dammit, make it readable!

    -- Shade

    --
    Technology tips and tricks.
  27. British Left Waffles on Falklands by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This is bad news... these puns are quite entertining at times. The subject of this post is an example of one of my favorites: British Left Waffles on Falklands.
    I find it hard to believe that posters don't see the value in this sort of word-play. For goodness sake, as a computer scientist, language and grammar are highly important and our wordplay sets us apart from the machine!

    -Starfishprime

  28. God forbid... by severoon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...anyone should be able to read a headline and quickly get an idea of what the story's about. Much better to have some snarky news editor misleading us to get us to read their stupid story.

    I, for one, welcome "boring, straightforward" news headlines. After all, it's news. Not commentary, not opinion. If I see a newspaper section marked "Scene" I'm not likely to know what it's about.

    --
    but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
    1. Re:God forbid... by Angostura · · Score: 4, Funny

      First off, someone is confusing "section headings" and "headlines". Second you are conflating misleading, confusing headlines with ones that use language imaginatively.

      I've written some headlines in my time; getting something to fit to the page, convey the meaning and (hopefully) be elegant is an art. The occasional pun is no bad thing.

      I remember the story of a UK national newspaper sub-seditor who had a headline all made up in hot metal which sat above his head for on a wall for years on the off-chance that the suitable event occurred. It never did.

      The event? He wanted Michael Foot (labour party leader) to be put in charge of the organisation monitoring IRA decommissioning.

      The headline?

      Foot Heads Arms Body.

      Ah well.

    2. Re:God forbid... by hotdiggitydawg · · Score: 3, Funny

      My personal favourite was the one about the psychic dwarf that escaped from a mental asylum. It read "Small Medium at Large"...

    3. Re:God forbid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While funny for whoever knows what the hell "Foot Heads Arms Body" means, the fact of the matter is I don't care who Michael Foot is, and there are many weapons related organizations on earth, and that headline wouldn't tell me what I needed to know like "Labour Party chief to head IRA decommissioning body." Then again, I also wouldn't care who was in charge, as long as the decommissioning was going on.

      News isn't supposed to be art. It's supposed to be information. If you want word art, go to a poetry site. If you want to know what is going on now, you shouldn't have to know the intricacies of Labour Party politics to guess whats going on.

  29. He Must Have Been A Jounalist by LowlyWorm · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Truthful words are not beautiful; beautiful words are not truthful. Good words are not persuasive; persuasive words are not good

    --Lau Tsu

    --
    Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
  30. The Guardian ... by Tim+Ward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... has the worst puns and is the best online newspaper ...

  31. It's the headlines, stupid. by ubiquitin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As citizens of this democracy, workers in this nation, and technologist hobbyists, it's hard for all of us to find time to read anything from start to finish. So they're right on that point: the headline is often all you really get out of news. Funny thing is, I know lots of people who are more interested in Matt Drudge's headlines than the NYTimes headlines. He writes better headlines than the NYTimes. They're more timely, more revelent, and often more witty.

    Stick that in your Google and search it.

    --
    http://tinyurl.com/4ny52
  32. Its not just the headlines... by Silvrmane · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is part of a larger problem. The search engines, and the desire on the part of webmasters to rank highly on them, causes a distortion in the kind of language we are using on the internet. Its not about the quality of your content or your writing style and how those affect a human reader. Its now about "keyword density". In order to get their page to show up higher in search results, webmasters start to fluff out what they are saying, adding extra words, repeating things repetitiously, adding redundant redundancies, and repeating what they are saying a bunch of different ways. We end up writing for the search engine, not the human beings who have to wade through this crap to find the information they are looking for.

    Having said that, this boring headline business doesn't seem to have affected The Register. They usually have some clever ones.

  33. Too Bad by hotspotbloc · · Score: 2, Funny
    Back in the '70s I remember one of the many classic New York Post headlines:
    CANNABAL IN NEW YORK
    Human BBQ Bash in Bronx
    God bless the New York Post. (...sniff...)
    --
    "I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
  34. newspapers used to be really clueless about SEO by danny · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Six or seven years ago, I ranked #1 on a search for "book reviews" at most search engines. Eventually the print media cottoned onto sensible TITLEs and link anchors, and I was displaced by the NRYOB and NYT (and I think I'm now down to 10th on Google). There are still some really poorly thought-out major sites, but things are getting harder for small web sites.

    The Sydney Morning Herald has not only replaced its old-style "meaningless without context" headings with "boring" ones, but it's stuck them into its URLs - which is another SEO idea.

    Danny.

    --
    I have written over 900 book reviews
  35. The changing of section names... by Xserv · · Score: 2, Insightful
    'About a year ago, The Sacramento Bee changed online section titles. "Real Estate" became "Homes," "Scene" turned into "Lifestyle," and dining information found in newsprint under "Taste," is online under "Taste/Food."'
    This makes perfect sense to me. If someone is searching the web and needs to find an article about "things to do" in Sacremento they might not know that the people from Sacremento refer to what everyone else calls the "Lifestyle" section as "The Scene". I would see the changing of the sections as a way to reach out to a broader audience, not necessarily JUST to fit in with Goodle Adwords. I mean, if you can kill two birds with one stone, then fine, but I think there's more to it. It gets away from the cutesy bullcrap and makes it more relevant to the full audience which is what the web is about, right?

    Xserv
    --
    "I love lamp."
  36. All this tells us.... by GnomeChompsky · · Score: 2, Interesting

    is that computational linguistics still hasn't been able to make reasonable progress into Pragmatics; but then again, neither has plain-old-offline linguistics, so that's not unexpected.

    Is there nothing Bayesian/connectionist we can do? Some sort of probabilistic contextual indicator of meaning? With-what-certainty-do-I-as-a-machine-believe-this -to-be-sarcasm-or-wordplay?

    It's still basically a mystery how we understand metaphor and sarcasm as quickly as we do (despite the Gricean notion that they involve some kind of reanalysis, there's no processing delay: an argument, some say, for a presemantic pragmatics...)

    Something with a semantic web could probably determine what was going on in wordplay.... and might shed light onto how we as humans understand these "problematic" (from a generative/UG point of view) utterances. Maybe then we could get past issues like the following sentence:

    Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana.

    I'm needfully vague here, as I myself am not (currently) a CL...

    1. Re:All this tells us.... by NetSettler · · Score: 2, Interesting

      is that computational linguistics still hasn't been able to make reasonable progress into Pragmatics

      Two quick points, one regular, one meta...

      First, I wanted to say something more but didn't want to read all the posts to see if I was duplicating. So thank you for saying essentially the same thing as I was going to say. That is, that mostly this shows up the limitations of full text search and that I hope Google and others are investing in better forms of search. The whole point of full text search was to take un-marked-up text and just use it as is. Having to change your un-marked-up text to be "even less marked up" is the wrong way to go. Alta Vista and its successors were on the right track before by saying we must build tools that accomodate language as it is written and index it in spite of itself. This is no time to turn back.

      Second, in the meta level, I was happy not to have to search the entire text of everything people wrote to find this. I just read all the level 5 posts (not many) and then scanned the unattached posts for an interesting headline that would give me the hint of someone describing the limits of computational linguistics. Your post, here titled "All this tell us..." was perfect to allow me to select its content on first try, avoiding a bunch of posts probably on other topics. But this header would be terrible for full text searches as currently implemented. Anyway, I thought it was great that this message and its subject itself were an existence proof of the claim that was made within the post.

      Tools will continue to evolve, but the data we're searching is a static record. If we dumb down an entire culture to to accomodate our current tools, when we get better tools will one of them be something that un-dumbs-down the time period from 2005-2010 when we though dumbing things down was necessary? Or will it just look to people of the future like we had a sudden five year interval of being idiots?

      p.s. Mod parent up.

      --

      Kent M Pitman
      Philosopher, Technologist, Writer

  37. That's naive by p3d0 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    If the search engine is to stupid to find content on my site that is relative to a search, then it certainly isn't my job to optimise for them.
    It is your job, if optimizing for "them" increases your revenue tenfold.
    --
    Patrick Doyle
    I mod down every jackass who puts his moderation policy in his sig. Oh, wait a sec....
  38. This All Relates To How We Now Use Information by ctwxman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have read through the comments, and I haven't seen anyone mention (I could have missed it) the major change that's brought this about. Search engines are the outward evidence of a totally different way to use information. It used to be you would pick up a paper or turn on the TV news and see what someone else had planned for you. Now, it's information on demand. That's an immense change.

    Oh - the Times article's own headline will be ineffective to search engines.

    I've written more about this on my blog: http://www.geofffox.com/MT/archives/2006/04/09/its _not_smart_to_be_clever.php

  39. This is strange! by Intestineman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I keep reading and hearing that news agencies have issue with search engines such as Google, and are threatening legal action because of sites like Google News for getting a "free ride" on news items which they are merely linking to and not doing the "hard work" for uncovering the story. Now I read they try to make it easier for Google to index their stories??? Did I understanding this article correctly or am I missing something?