Slashdot Mirror
The End of Naked PCs in China?
fishter writes "The Chinese Government is calling on PC manufacturers to ensure that a properly licensed operating system is installed on their products before they leave the factory. One manufacturer has already signed a deal with Microsoft to install its operating systems on all its personal PC products. The edict would also apply to foreign manufacturers supplying PCs to Chinese companies and residents."
Well, I haven't had the chance to read the exact Chinese wording but if I were a vendor looking to sell naked PCs, I'd simply use a superior OS.
... because it doesn't change anything. It just makes manufacturing boxes a bit more cumbersome.
That's right, simply burn 17MB CDLinux ISO (with Chinese language support) to a CD and "install" the disc into the CD-ROM drive. When the computer boots up, it will have a properly licensed operating system running. Should the consumer choose to install some other operating system *cough* *cough* they won't even need to format the hard drive or write over the partition tables!
Seriously, I think this is just a laughable edict that the Chinese Government has done to bolster trade with United States software firms. The factories in China are just going to distribute Linux or some other free operating system and even have instructions on how to install windows over it. The government knows this also and that's why it's happy to comply with something the US companies are asking it to do
Who knows, if the manufacturers use a nice enough version of Linux, they might cause quite a few people to convert?
My work here is dung.
I don't see anything in this that precludes pre-loading of OS's other than Windows. They just need to be properly licenced. A copy of RedFlag Linux for example should be perfectly acceptable.
I hate the way this whole 'naked PC' thing is painted as purely a piracy issue. We just bought 10 Workstations from HP that come with WinXP Pro and no way to buy them without despite the fact that they are intended as Linux machines and HP advertises them as fully Linux compatible.
"I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
Well, of course, a "properly licensed operating system" doesn't have to cost money. I'm guessing they will just install linux, probably Red Flag Linux.
Some could even see this as an attempt by the Chinese government to increase Red Flag usage over pirated (American) Windows.
"A week in the lab saves an hour in the library"
I've had coworkers from China. They say that the piracy over there is just ignored. For example, just like you can go and buy a hotdog or a newspaper in a 7/11 here, you can buy a "copy" of whatever you want software-wise over there. It's so bad that requiring an O/S is like holding back the ocean with a broom, it will make absolutely no difference. I'm not just talking about making copies of some existing software, I'm talking about full-scale organized piracy as an industry. It goes far enough that you can even buy DVD's of movies there before the movie is released in theaters over here (not camcorder-made either) !
stuff |
What's the selling point for this when it comes to Joe User? How does Microsoft or China or whoever justify to the consumer that forcing OEM's to bundle an OS with each product is a good thing? Btw, I'm throwing out any anti-piracy argument because I think that sells to corporations, not users.
I'm asking because I don't think there is one. And if there's not one, then this plan of attack is succeeding for other reasons. My guesses are:
1) Joe User doesn't know/care what's going on
10) China isn't a democracy (to put it plainly)
11) Microsoft can bully OEM's
Am I right? Are any of these ever going to change?
Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me. - John 14:6 NLT
Will the Chinese still be able to buy parts and slap them together, or will they be forced into buying a hard drive with an OS already installed? What if you have everything but the hard drive, and plan to simply run it off a CD? How about a dummy terminal? There has to be a line drawn somewhere.
Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
In Beijing, where bootleg software is the norm, now PCs come with a surplus, legal (possibly) version of MS DOS 6 installed. It just measn that for a while the bootlegs will be under the counter instead of in the shop window.
Will governments decide that all cars must be sold with properly licensed tires on them? Maybe DVD players should be sold with properly licensed DVDs to play in them.
.... no lobby money needed per se, no court costs needed for fighting pirates, no money needed to influence governments... wow, when you think about it, I wish F/OSS groups were given the equivelent of what MS has spent lobbying courts, governments, and other groups and entities. That should give us all a very nice OS.
Yeah, I get the point, and I can see how this 'should' help MS and others fight piracy... one day, these people will wake up and see that pirates simply don't care and are going to use illegal copies of things anyway. This is why F/OSS has a strong advantage over MS
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
So, will this mean that the Chinese government will officially let MS spy on them? This would certainly help. I can't imagine the chinese government being at all comfortable with that prospect. You'd think they'd develope their own distro with wine already set up to run those windows apps they'd think there to be a need for.
"We are all geniuses when we dream"
- E.M. Cioran
you can even buy DVD's of movies there before the movie is released in theaters over here (not camcorder-made either) !
Geez, you would think that having the dvd presses in China and paying the workers peanuts would amount to a very tight supply chain.
At the end of TFA is the statement
Something tells me this is one of those Chinese Government edicts that will be largely ignored once Mr. Bush leaves China.
The Chinese President is certainly not in the mood to discuss Microsoft's Intellectual Property Rights when there are more pressing matters to be discussed with the US President. He'll just point to the edict and politely say that the Chinese Government is already taking steps to address problems of piracy. Then he'll quickly change to another topic as soon as he is able.
However, quite a few people will probably keep the default OS out of laziness, if nothing else, so Windows will loose market share. Until now, there are a fair number of Chinese internet sites (and software) that only work with Windows, but if enough people will use the default Linux system, those sites will have to adapt. This will make it even less attractive to install pirate Windows.
So, how will this hurt MS? They don't get any money worth talking about from the Chinese market today. Their problem is that if a large portion of the Chinese start using Linux, international web sites that sell to the Chinese, will also have to adapt to Linux. And that means that Linux will be a more viable alternative for the international public too.
This may be wishful thinking, but I think there is a fair chance that this scenario will take place.
That IS the reason. Same reason Hu is buying a fleet of Boeings. They've got a huge pile of US dollars and have to spend it somehow, and handing it over to high-profile US companies helps to keep the US trade protectionists off their back.
I remember hearing once that McDonald's marketing goal was to make your dinner decision be the question: "McDonalds: yes/no?" as opposed to "McDonalds / Burger King / Taco Bell /
So what Microsoft is trying for here is to convince everyone that the only alternatives are 'piracy' and 'purchasing Windows'. By denying that other choices even exist they push them down in the mindset of the audience, (conversely by adding say Linux in the mix, they legitimize it)
It's the old "Are you still drowning kittens?" question, either 'yes' or 'no' paints you as a monster, when in reality you've never done any such thing.
Formulating questions and answers that go together is what marketing is...
If you think imaginary property and real property are the same, when does your house become public domain?
Does nobody build their own PC in China?
I think this is why when Dell sells a computer without an operating system (their N series), they ship it with FreeDOS.
That's a legal operating system. It comes with a CD of FreeDos and a printed copy of the GPL.
I can't speak for China, as I've never been there, but in Thailand, you can go to the mall and find stores (actual stores, not booths) that have nothing but spindles upon spindles of CD-Rs with 'pirated' software. The disks go for the equivilant of $5 US and probably cheaper if you're Thai. It's quite an interesting thing to see.
I don't think "capitalism" and "communism" mean what you think they mean. The word you're looking for is "plutocracy". The US is a plutocracy.
Insightfull? I'm talking about full-scale organized piracy as an industry.
There is no piracy in China (since there is no copyright*).
This is just legal business.
*not the same copyright laws and no convention etc. I don't know the details.
Million Dollar Screenshot
Then it is privateering.
Now that IBM/Lenovo is a Chinese company, does this apply to them as well? How many computers/parts are actually made in China?
(( (CRAYON) )) >
Oh, the irony, the "People's Republic" bowing to capitalist pressure at the expense of it's people!
Imagine the officers of a Chinese computer company in a meeting where they are trying to decide on the best way to meet this edict. I am sure that it isn't much different than the meeting and decision making process here (in the United States).
****
Overview is given: Gentlemen, a new policy has come down from Bejing, we are going to be required to install an OS on all of the computers we build! This meeting is to decide what operating system we can install that will be the most profitable for our company. There are many OS'es to choose from; Microsoft has several different flavors of Windows, there is of course a number of flavors of Linux, and then we could also consider BSD or perhaps a commercial version of Unix.
Rep from MFG: Our perspective is that we would like to limit the number of options. It is expensive for us to have too many different options available in our generic boxes.
Rep from Marketing: The lion's share of computers in homes and offices have Windows installed on them. It would be much more difficult for us to sell something that does not have Windows.
Rep from Support: My people could rise to the challenge of supporting anything, they are geeks and like to learn new things but let's face it, right now they already know Windows and it's idisyncracies.
Rep from Development: Every O/S has different drivers. Some companies only offer Windows drivers. We can not find an inexpensive modem that will work with anything besides Windows. If we offer multiple O/S'es, our development costs will skyrocket!
Rep from Shipping: We have not got enough warhouse space to stock more than a couple of different options. Each different configuration requires at least one storage bay! I barely have enough room already!
Moderator: So we can all agree that we have to limit options to one or two different Operating Systems then?
Everyone: Murmurs agreement.
Moderator: Linux is free, Windows XP costs us a lot of money and Windows XP Pro costs us even more.
Marketing: I can not agree to Linux, I do not know how many boxes we can sell like that. People who have to go out and buy retail copies of Windows would need to spend a lot more! They will mentally add that cost into the cost of the computer and I am just not sure we can overcome that!!! I will not sign off on anything other than Windows, it is as simple as that!
Moderator: Anyone else have an opinion?
Everyone:
Moderator: Everyone agrees then that we will offer Windows XP?
Everyone: Quietly mumrmer agreement.
Moderator: Should we offer XP Pro as an option?
Shipping: I think I can make space for it...
Moderator: Are we all agreed that XP Pro can be an option?
Everyone: Quietly mutter agreements
Moderator: OK, that settles it then.
*****
People, you know how this works. While the scenereo I have given is pure fiction, I have been in a thousand meetings just like this and in a nutshell this is what will happen.
I see this as something that makes society much more chocolate and vanilla. Other flavors aren't as favored so things like butterscotch fail to compete for shelf space in larger stores and are eventually discontinued by the manufacturer because he can't sell them to the Walmart's of the world. In the end, we all loose because the fringe flavors are simply no longer available and all we have left to choose from are chocolate and vanilla.
This is why naked PCs are important. They provide something that you can make any flavor you want without extra expense or hassle. Most manufaturers of naked PCs already make Windows boxes too. I suspect that the "copyright issue" is way over-blown. But this way, Microsoft wins because they are now sticking their software on every box made in China! For many naked PC buyers, this just significantly increased the cost of a computer.
I'll say it again: Oh, the irony, the "People's Republic" bowing to capitalist pressure at the expense of it's people!
The company I work for sells networking software. To prevent piracy of our software, I'm thinking of contacting Microsoft and telling them to add a copy of it to their Windows Server operating systems.
This way, Microsoft can buy the software from us, charge slightly more for a copy of Windows to compensate, and it should prevent piracy - not to mention make my company plenty of money!
Well, if Microsoft can do it, why can't I?
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
Can some lawyer-type please explain to me why/how this is not prima facie evidence of a massive violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act (other than that the victims are not in the US)?
Because U.S. law doesn't govern China is the most fundamental reason why this is not a violation.
fuck you.
Can some lawyer-type please explain to me why/how this is not prima facie evidence of a massive violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act (other than that the victims are not in the US)?
I've been reading about this on other sites this morning. Factories were sending out pirated copies of Windows with PC's. I'm not sure how that falls under anti-trust even tho it's a US act and you're comparing it to China. This is all about pirated software crackdowns in China. Somehow this story has twisted it around to mean they are being force fed Windows.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I - I took the one the bus load of girls just went down.
Look at this announcement, under the Intellectual Property Rights http://www.usda.gov/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_ 1OB?contentidonly=true&contentid=2006/04/0125.xml
I am sure Microsoft is behind this.
It's also considerably simpler to support.
Well, yes, it is easier to support a product that doesn't do anything.
"Of course being able to chose one's OS is sooo much more important than being able to chose one's government."
Can one person really choose their government? No, it takes the whole voting population (or at least, the part of the voting population that actually votes). Can one person choose their own OS? Yes.
If you can't convince them, convict them.
After she left, I walked over and asked (in Thai) for the price of the same thing and he started at half what she had paid after bargaining... I didn't buy it either.