Slashdot Mirror


Tiny Biodiesel Reactors

Lee_in_KC writes "A professor of chemical engineering at Oregon State University developed a small reactor to directly convert vegetable oil to biodiesel. Goran Jovanovic reports his invention is approximately the size of a credit card. It pumps vegetable oil and alcohol through parallel channels to convert the oil into biodiesel almost instantly. Current mainstream methods to produce biodiesel take more than a day and also produces other byproducts which must be neutralized before disposal or use in other manufacturing processes."

369 comments

  1. Two Words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Mr. Fusion.

  2. better article by Quixote · · Score: 5, Informative
    You can find a much better article here.

    I'm not sure how feasible this is. Also, as per the longer article (above), it does not eliminate the need for NaOH; unless I'm reading it wrong.

    1. Re:better article by NitsujTPU · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is discussed in the article.

      NaOH is the catalyst used in the reaction.

      The microreactor under development by the university and the Oregon Nanoscience and Microtechnologies Institute eliminates the mixing, the standing time and maybe even the need for a catalyst.

    2. Re:better article by NitsujTPU · · Score: 1

      Oh, I see. Yeah, you're right. I'm a dork.

    3. Re:better article by Alex+Black · · Score: 1

      Someone correct my understanding if i am wrong.. but i think if somehow the base NaOH is used as a catalyst, catalyst are not used in the overall reaction. You get them back, so only a bit would be needed to start each reaction and when you get them back they can be reused to start each following reaction mechanism.

    4. Re:better article by Baddas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not only that, but the point of catalysts is to increase the rate of reaction (in some cases with equilibrium reactions it results in shifting the balance to the other side)

      With microchannels like he's using, the surface area is so high you've got a naturally higher rate of reaction, so you may not need the catalyst at all.

    5. Re:better article by Hal_Porter · · Score: 5, Informative

      You can run diesel engines on unrefined rapeseed oil if you tweak them a bit

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straight_vegetable_oi l
      In the UK drivers using SVO have been prosecuted for failure to pay duty to Customs and Excise.

      Biodiesel just means that you can run an umodified engine -

      from
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
      Sometimes even unrefined vegetable oil is incorrectly called "biodiesel". Unlike unrefined vegetable oil, biodiesel does not require fuel pre-heating and filtration due to issues with coagulation, and also require no or minimal modification to the fuel system.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    6. Re:better article by Gordonjcp · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've run a few cars on straight waste veg oil. You *do* have to pay fuel duty on it, but at a much lower rate than mineral diesel. You can run straight veg oil in pretty much all the PSA diesels (Peugeot / Renault / Citroën / some Volvo) if they have a Bosch fuel pump - the Lucas ones are more efficient but have tighter running clearances and the increased viscosity will damage them. I've had best results with the 2.5 turbodiesel as fitted to the Citroën CX and various trucks. The XUD-series engines work fairly well too.

      In general running pure veg oil is a pain in the arse because it's very hard to get the engine started. If you weren't going to switch off for more than a few minutes it would be just fine (which might be practical for generators).

    7. Re:better article by bloobloo · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not quite. Catalysts can't affect the position of equilibrium as the forward and reverse reactions are catalysed equally. If you have multiple reactions occuring in parallel and one of them is the reaction you want to occur, then catalysis increases the yield of the desired product at the expense of byproducts.

    8. Re:better article by feyhunde · · Score: 4, Informative

      Goran runs his truck on SVO, but biodiesel is more viable as it can use any long chain hydrocarbon to make a fuel. I'm an ex-student of his, and work on several projects with him and the group. Actually a good deal of ground work was done by some students of him last year for their senior engineering project.

      One of the most common things for biodiesel is A. It produces a large amount of Glycerol that might be economically used (I help test that concept last year) and B. it can be mixed with existing diesel to increase overall engine efficiency and reduce smog.

      Since biodiesel is taking pretty much nothing but long chain HCs and using NaOH as a catalyst to reduce em down, and then cleaned (NaOH mostly goes to glycerol if i remember) once the sodium is cleaned out there is nothing but fuel. As a result it's sulfur content is nada. Adding it to regular diesel lets it run hotter and cleaner. The only issue is that biodiesel lacks normal fuel additives used to promote all climate use. Many places have a 20 or 50% mix if they offer it commercially. If you are interested in your self switching I'd suggest looking around for a locale fuel coop. I know the one in C-town has 1.50 a gallon for SVO, and 2.00 or so for Biodiesel.

      The only changes you really need to make for SVO is a few hoses changed around. Not recommended always for colder climates with out adding an engine block heater.

      --
      I'd say more, but my guild is raiding.
    9. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something that i dont get as a chemist, if NaOH is the catalyst, it shouldnt react with the alcool but help the reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalyst).
      I dont see how OH- will not react with R-OH. NaOH is a strong base and alcools are weak acids.
      Saponification under normal condition is a reversible reaction...

    10. Re:better article by donaldm · · Score: 1

      There are many articles on this concept (see below):

      http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html

      With modern diesel cars and trucks it is actually possible to mix 50/50 petroleum diesel and vegetable oil. With the right equipment you can even run a diesel off used frying oil (alright you need to clean it) but it is basically free.

      The only issue you may have is when the Government insists on you paying the diesel tax:

      http://www.sovereignty.org.uk/features/eco/biofuel .html

      In fact just do a Google search on "diesel cars" (refine if you wish) since there is a huge amount of reading on the subject of diesel and bio-diesel. In fact diesel cars are starting to become very popular in many countries, although the US and Australia are lagging behind but even there, slow and steady shifts are being made towards diesel cars. What slows down the purchase of diesel cars it the false perception that they are dirty, underpowered and more expensive. this is not true anymore, although before you rush out and get rid of your petrol driven car you should do a bit of homework.

      http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1951524,00.as p
      http://www.kirotv.com/consumer/8834497/detail.html

      I have a feeling that things are going to get very interesting, when petroleum companies start to wake up to the potential loss of revenue if too many people purchase machines that can use cheap bio-fuel.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    11. Re:better article by salec · · Score: 1
      biodiesel is more viable as it can use any long chain hydrocarbon to make a fuel

      You ment lipids (oils and grease), of course, but it just occured to me that celulose has (very) long C-chains. If we could make a chemical or nano "chopper" that would cut them in pieces of certain capped length, we could turn dried plant residues, paper garbage (the paper that already had been recycled for too many times to be still useful) or even wood sawdust into fuel in a snap! Perhaps even any sinthetic polymer fibers could be used.

      OTOH, such an substance would be unpreceded bio-killer in environment, literally "cutting all strings" that hold each living being together.
    12. Re:better article by mmkkbb · · Score: 2, Interesting

      my father-in-law modified two old mercedes so that they have dual fuel tanks. he starts up the car on regular diesel to avoid the clogging nature of veggie oil.

      he drives across the US pretty much for free, grabbing waste oil along the way. except in texas. apprently the oil there is too gross to use for fuel :)

      --
      -mkb
    13. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That already exists. It is called fungus/molds.

      I think the Swedes are aready using a fungus from elephant poo to produce alcohol from wood.

    14. Re:better article by Smidge204 · · Score: 1

      ...we could turn dried plant residues, paper garbage (the paper that already had been recycled for too many times to be still useful) or even wood sawdust into fuel in a snap! Perhaps even any sinthetic polymer fibers could be used.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerizat ion

      =Smidge=

    15. Re:better article by salec · · Score: 1

      Massive acquiring of methanol or ethanol thru fermentation of biomass is not uncommon at all, of course, but it is not quite what I ment, or what would suite our energy needs.

      Therefore I'll rephrase in hope of clarification: "cut long C-chains from fatty acid groups or from long, predominantely linear polymers chains such as celulose, some proteins, or other polymer fibers into big enaugh chunks, in size matching or comparable to that of carbohydrates usually used as internal combustion engine fuel".

    16. Re:better article by God'sDuck · · Score: 1

      so what you need is a *hybrid* diesel, so the electric side can heat and otherwise prep the incoming fuel when the car is first turned on, allowing the diesel to only operate at its optimum performance level...

    17. Re:better article by malverian · · Score: 1

      I'm considering purchasing a diesel car for my next new ride, but there was one thing I was curious about:

      What kind of gas mileage do you get with vegitable oil versus mineral diesel?

      --
      You're just mad because the voices in your head talk to me.
    18. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean... have some kind of power generating device in a car? It'll never catch on. Hand crank starters 4 evar!

    19. Re:better article by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "I've had best results with the 2.5 turbodiesel..."

      Just curious, with a turbodiesel...how is the performance? What would the 0-60mph times be like? How is torque, etc?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    20. Re:better article by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Interesting articles. This one line from the PC article:

      "California, Maine, Massachusetts, New York, and Vermont effectively outlaw diesels, and some automakers say they won't introduce diesel cars until they're allowed in every state."

      Made me think...why do these states ban diesel cars?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    21. Re:better article by th1nk · · Score: 1

      Made me think...why do these states ban diesel cars?

      These states ban sales of new cars that don't pass the California emissions standards. Here in Maine you can still buy a used diesel car, or buy one out of state and register it here. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense...

    22. Re:better article by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Wow. Sure makes me glad I live in states where they don't have these restrictions. Hell, I've never even had to have an exhaust test or anything, and last state I lived in, didn't have inspections at all.

      Nice when you want to 'soup' up your car...

      :-)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    23. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you run straight biodiesel (b100) you will see about a 5% hit in mileage. There is a good forum on http://www.tdiclub.com/ about running volkswagen diesels on biodiesel. Aside from VW and Mercedes, there aren't any other small passenger cars available in diesel in North America currently.

    24. Re:better article by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      I found veg oil to be about the same, or maybe slightly better. The engine was quieter and there was less visible smoke at full chat too.

    25. Re:better article by Gordonjcp · · Score: 1

      Pretty much the same as mineral diesel. I can't remember the exact performance figures, but then my engine was somewhat "breathed on" and turned in about 220ft/lb at 1800rpm, making acceleration fairly, uhm, brisk.

    26. Re:better article by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Can you get Corvette or Porsche type performance numbers out of a turbo diesel available for the masses? I saw that Audi had won a race (an endurance one?) but, wondering if that level of performance only exists at pro level....I'd be interested in a street rod diesel if the numbers could be made...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    27. Re:better article by Ricdude · · Score: 1

      They don't ban diesel vehicles. What they do is set emissions requirements that cannot be met with high sulfur (~300ppm) diesel fuel. In a year or so, ULSD (ultra low sulfur diesel, 30 ppm) will be the standard for the US, and all the cool emissions treatments that are in use in Europe today can also be used here. These emissions treatments are adversely affected by the high sulfur content in today's diesel fuel.

      I'll leave the discussion on solubility of rubber (i.e. fuel lines) in biodiesel and ULSD for another post...

      --
      How's my programming? Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
    28. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The V10 TDI in the VW Touareg (similar tech to the R10 LeMans car) produces 553lb/ft of torquey goodness. That thing weighs over 5000 lbs and gets moving PDQ.

    29. Re:better article by salec · · Score: 1

      Well, that's great! Combine that with recent article on high-temp geothermal facilities http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/03/2 7/1149253 (we need up to 500 degrees Celsius for TDP, and from this TFA: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4846574. stm it seems there as well may be so) and we are getting to broken down and recreated natural oil-generating process, using "free" energy from begining to the end and ridding off the garbage in the process.

      This gives me hope we are saved from energy (and waste...and perhaps even CO2 emission - we will be reusing it on large scale) crisis in the medium-to-long run (one hundred years timeframe, top), provided the opportunity is well spotted and quickly exploited. And we might not even be needing to handle large quantities of (cryogenic, leaky, quickly leaving atmosphere if released - leading to planetary water loss) liquid hydrogen.

      Now, somewhere (i.e. on Iceland, obviously) geothermal energy is certainly cheaper then elsewhere, but in the end it comes down to the limits of the drilling technology, which, like any other technology, will meet breakthroughs over time and we know for certain that anywhere on Earth, deep enaugh beneath our feet, there is abundance of magma, therefore it is energy source accessible (at least in theory) to any nation, unlike any other we used so far. Admitted, some places solar-thermal energy is much cheaper (some focusing needed, though) and reliable enaugh (desert climate) but these places usually tend to have lack of raw material to process.

      Are we to see "yuck tankers" and pipelines transporting organic waste from first world to huge solar processors located in previous mineral oil exporters for conversion in the future, thereby closing the circle, creating "solar energy conveyer belt"?

      Or, it may pay well to turn deserts into irrigated (using desalinized sea water, of course) farms to produce, among other things, raw biomass for TDP input?

    30. Re:better article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to unpimp ze auto!

  3. Just what America needs... by brian0918 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Aren't we fat enough without our cars putting on extra pounds as well?!?! Vegetable oil has like 20 grams of fat per serving.. I wonder how many miles-per-gallon my Hummer will get after its intake is clogged with cholesterol..

    1. Re:Just what America needs... by LoRdTAW · · Score: 1

      The H2 does not have a diesel option. Some people have swapped in GM duramax diesels into them but thats an expensive route. The Duramax diesel is standard on the H1 which starts at $130,000.

    2. Re:Just what America needs... by daniel_newton · · Score: 1

      vegetable matter does not contain any cholesterol you ninny

    3. Re:Just what America needs... by Saven+Marek · · Score: 2

      vegetable matter does not contain any cholesterol you ninny

      Just because plant lipids contain less cholesterol than animal ones does not mean they don't contain any.

      less != none

    4. Re:Just what America needs... by PapayaSF · · Score: 5, Funny

      No, you're looking at it backwards: think of all the excess fat we have available for automobile fuel! Every liposuction could be like a little oil well....

      --
      Q: What does the "B." in Benoit B. Mandelbrot stand for? A: Benoit B. Mandelbrot
    5. Re:Just what America needs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Huh, yeah! Duramaxes are coole engines. This company in Wheatridge, CO, ATS Performance Diesel... Holy shit, they make diesel trucks go batshit crazy fast. When you see an 8000lb truck do a low 12sec. quater mile, well, it's a pretty amazing thing. I imagine similar performance could come from an H1

    6. Re:Just what America needs... by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      Bizzare thought, but why not? Surely all types of fats and oils could (in theory) be pooled together then refined into the most useful substance.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    7. Re:Just what America needs... by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Sounds like it is time to trademark the name SoylentFuel. ;)

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    8. Re:Just what America needs... by somersault · · Score: 2, Insightful

      soap?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    9. Re:Just what America needs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first rule is don't talk about....

    10. Re:Just what America needs... by AnalystX · · Score: 1

      Keeping in spirit with the post about a vehicle's intake "clogged" with cholesterol, it's a pretty safe bet that won't happen with generally less than 2 mg of cholesterol per 1 kg of vegetable oil. Contaminants found in refined vegetable oil such as NaOH probably make up a larger percentage. It's also debatable whether plant sterols would actually "clog" even a human arterial system.

    11. Re:Just what America needs... by VolciMaster · · Score: 1

      but the H1 is Diesel.

    12. Re:Just what America needs... by gstoddart · · Score: 1
      Aren't we fat enough without our cars putting on extra pounds as well?!?! Vegetable oil has like 20 grams of fat per serving.. I wonder how many miles-per-gallon my Hummer will get after its intake is clogged with cholesterol..

      Yeah, but it's low in saturated fats instead of all of those nasty saturated ones which DO clog your arteries. These are the ones which help fight cholesterol, not increase it.

      Your body still needs fats to operate. Your Hummer, it's on its own. :-P
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    13. Re:Just what America needs... by abb3w · · Score: 1
      No, you're looking at it backwards: think of all the excess fat we have available for automobile fuel! Every liposuction could be like a little oil well....

      Variant on the old Argon Fuels joke, dating back to the 1970's fuel crunch....

      --
      //Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
  4. Did I miss something, or..? by AWhiteFlame · · Score: 3, Informative

    > Conventional production involves dissolving a catalyst, such as sodium hydroxide, in alcohol, then stirring it into vegetable oil in large vats for about two hours. The mixture then has to sit for 12 to 24 hours while a slow chemical reaction forms biodiesel along with glycerin, a byproduct.

    It mentions a byproduct in the conventional method. Am I missing something, or does it not clarify whether or not this new method produces a byproduct?

    --
    "Everything worth innovating today will go to court tomorrow."
    1. Re:Did I miss something, or..? by Doytch · · Score: 5, Informative

      Glycerin is not a problem in and of itself, it's the catalyst properties that are mixed in from the NaOH that end up creating useless glycerin that must be purified to be of use. Since this may eliminate the need for the catalyst, the glycerin can be used immediately without purification.

    2. Re:Did I miss something, or..? by pclminion · · Score: 1
      It mentions a byproduct in the conventional method. Am I missing something, or does it not clarify whether or not this new method produces a byproduct?

      ANY method of producing biodiesel must leave glycerin as a byproduct. The conversion to biodiesel takes place when the fatty acid chains break off the glycerol and combine with methanol to form a methyl ester. The glycerin is what is left over.

      The problem with conventional methods is that the glycerin is contaminated with sodium hydroxide, so it is not directly usable for certain purposes without processing it. The microreactor produces glycerin without NaOH contamination.

      (I made 85 gallons of biodiesel over the weekend.)

  5. Great news... by Easy2RememberNick · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd applaude but the sodium methoxide disolved the flesh of my hands.

    1. Re:Great news... by xenn · · Score: 1

      what has CH3NaO got to do with anything?

  6. Can I get Tiny Reflective Mudflap Women... by Nova+Express · · Score: 3, Funny
    ...to put on my tiny biodiesel engine? That way all the other miniature tiny biodiesel trucks will know to blow their tiny horns as I pass...

    --
    Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)

    http://www.lawrenceperson.com/

    1. Re:Can I get Tiny Reflective Mudflap Women... by OldManAndTheC++ · · Score: 1

      Yes, but you run the risk of tiny menopausal gun-toting women shooting your tiny fuel tanks and destroying your tiny biodiesel truck in a tiny fireball.

      --
      Soylent Green is peoplicious!
  7. I'm waiting. by ScaryMonkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'll be interested to see how much the oil companies pay for his patent so they can bury it for the next fifty years.

    1. Re:I'm waiting. by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      Why would the oil companies do that?

    2. Re:I'm waiting. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      you must be new to this country.
      .
      .
      .
      .
      I's OK you'll either adjust or go insane.
      -nB

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    3. Re:I'm waiting. by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Let's set you snide comment aside for a moment.

      Do you think the 'oil companies' would really buy this patent for the sole purpose of burying it?

    4. Re:I'm waiting. by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Historically, companies have bought emerging patents for the primary reason of defending their existing business model.

      Oil companies are no exception. There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on. Dozens of batteries patents are sat on by automotives, oil and petrochemical industries.

      Microsoft is buying patent as a defensive mechanism against open-source software encroachments.

      Proctor and Gamble has bought out some organic companies and then dissolved them overnite to protect their non-organic trade secrets.

      Too many to mention...

      A perfect reason for abolishing the patent system (I am a patent holder) so that the level playing field is attained (no more money wasted on litigation, lawyers, arbitration, licensing deals, cross-licensing deals). Think of the lower cost the product will become!!!!

    5. Re:I'm waiting. by ScaryMonkey · · Score: 3, Informative

      Because energy companies have all the infrastructure in place to continue profiting off of petroleum. Switching over to alternative fuels would require massive restructuring of their operations and investment in new infrastructure. Oil companies are not necessarily averse to alternative fuels per se, but at the moment their cost-benefit analyses will tell them that its easier and more profitable to continue focusing on petroleum. When there is little enough oil left that it becomes unprofitable to keep extracting and selling it, the move to alternative technologies will make more sense (at least, that's the business perspective).

      And, as another poster pointed out correctly, I shoould have said "the next twenty years."

    6. Re:I'm waiting. by icepick72 · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Let's set you snide comment aside for a moment. Do you think the 'oil companies' would really buy this patent for the sole purpose of burying it?

      Maybe you're not staying but while you're here you must see NYC. Or if you're in Canada visit ... oh never mind.

    7. Re:I'm waiting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on.
      This is true. I also have a bridge I would like to sell you.
    8. Re:I'm waiting. by David+Hume · · Score: 1
      There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on. Dozens of batteries patents are sat on by automotives, oil and petrochemical industries.
      Great! I'd really like to learn more, so please identify them in the U.S. Patent Office patent database
    9. Re:I'm waiting. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "Do you think the 'oil companies' would really buy this patent for the sole purpose of burying it?"

      What's so hard to believe about it? Oil's a cash cow. Buy the patent, maintain your margins. From a business perspective, it would be dumb for them not to do this.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    10. Re:I'm waiting. by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      "There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on. Dozens of batteries patents are sat on by automotives, oil and petrochemical industries."

      If that is true, then everyone in government and industry who KNEW and didn't FORCE that technology onto the street should be shot, hung, or emasuculated (if male)... Assholes...

      THAT kind of technology could have prevented wars in the Middle East!

      THIS is EXACTLY the kind of shit that makes me say that if a UFO crashed in my presence and I were the first to be able to do something about it, NOOOOO **one** government would get it first. I don't care WHERE I would be when it crashed. That, is, assuming SAC/NORAD didn't know of or track it. I mean, jeez... technology that can clean the environment, take power BACK from people who play games with their ability to control cartels, and the very assholes who'd try to decapitate those same cartel leaders... ALL of them are in bed, costing the average citizen...

      I hope China finds a way to duplicate this patent and just uses it without regard for the holders of it. THAT kind of patent will enable China to put more roads and cars in WITHOUT the US bitching about "China's gonna suck down the world's oil reserves..."

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    11. Re:I'm waiting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't it be more likley that a company will buy the patent, use it to sell generators and gain total monopoly over the energy industry for 20 some odd years.

      What is the incentive to bury it?

    12. Re:I'm waiting. by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

      Umm ok except that works for 20 years tops. That's how long a patent lasts, they aren't perpetual. Also you can't hide a patent, they are public record.

      Basically, in the US you have two ways of protecting an innovative process: a patent or a trade secret.

      A trade secret is just what it sounds like, a secret. You develop something and don't tell anyone. So let's say I invent a way to turn lead in to gold at my company. I decide to keep it a secret. I release the plans to nobody and make all my employees sign an NDA. Thus I'm the only one who can do it. Fair enough, but there's no special legal protection. If a rival happens to discover how I do it, they are free to use it, it's not a secret anymore.

      So the other route I can take is a patent. Here I publish my method for lead to gold for the world to see in the form of a patent. However, in doing so, I recieve a legal gaurentee that it's mine. You can read all about it, but you can't use it without my permission. I'm free to set the terms on that. But I only have 20 years to do that in. After 20 years, it's assumed I should have made my money, and it's now free for the world.

      Now, while I can decide to patent a trade secret, I can't take something I've patented and make it a secret. Trade secrets are things you have to enforce actively. They don't have any special legal standing, they are just a defacto sort of thing. The government recognises your right to keep a secret if you want, but offers it no special protection. One it's no longer a secret, too bad for you, should have gotten a patent before hand.

      So if the oil companies bought a patent to sit on it, they are just buying themselves 20 years. Ok maybe that's the point, but you can't keep claiming that they are "sitting on a patent" that they allegedly got 50 years ago, because it's been public domain for 30 years already.

    13. Re:I'm waiting. by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      "What is the incentive to bury it?"

      They control the supply of the fuels we use now. Not so easy with alternatives.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    14. Re:I'm waiting. by c_woolley · · Score: 1

      True. Just curious how long our oil reserves last. Might need to reconsider that whole 20 year thing a little. We've hit over $72 per barrel today....

    15. Re:I'm waiting. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you just said makes sense. The problem is, this is Slashdot, where the FUD runs wild. Especially if it has to do with an "evil" corporation. I take it that the vast majority of Slashdotters are still in school living of student loans, mom and dads money, or both. In the real world these "evil" corporations pay the bills. Are the "evil" oil companies taking everyone for a ride? OK, fuck them, outlaw all of them now. Oops, now were all fucked we don't have any gas. Well, let's make the goverment do it. Yeah, because every other goverment agency does things so well. OK, let's legalize them but limit their profits. Oh wait, we tried that in the 70's and that didn't work so well. It's called capatilism you stupid idiots. Don't like the "high" price of gas? Buy a smaller car. Move closer to work. Drive less. These yahoo's who bitch and moan about the price of gas as the same idiots who scream "Not in my back yard" when an oil company wants to build a new refinery or drill off shore for oil. Complete and utter tools.

    16. Re:I'm waiting. by Cygnusx12 · · Score: 1

      So if the oil companies bought a patent to sit on it, they are just buying themselves 20 years. Ok maybe that's the point, but you can't keep claiming that they are "sitting on a patent" that they allegedly got 50 years ago, because it's been public domain for 30 years already.

      While I agree with you in principle, Isnt what you're describing exactly what the pharamceutical companies are doing?

      Don't the drug companies artificially "extend" their patents on drugs by changing the color/packaging/shape of their product? Wouldn't the equally deep pockets of big oil be able to game the system in the same way?

    17. Re:I'm waiting. by xmedar · · Score: 1

      Moreover the oil companies are valued on their reserves, when you go from having reserves to making oil as required the valuations of the oil companies will take a huge hit, but don't worry, I'm sure their US/UK government puppets will have nuked the whole planet before ther oil Emperers are shown to have no clothes.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced man is indistinguishable from God
    18. Re:I'm waiting. by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      Theoretically true. However, patents are all public records. Show us the '50 year' patents that the oil companies are sitting on. We can launch a progressive movement that boycotts the individual patent sitting oil companies until they relent and license the magic patent at an affordable price.

    19. Re:I'm waiting. by radtea · · Score: 1

      Basically, in the US you have two ways of protecting an innovative process: a patent or a trade secret.

      But there are also a few ways of protecting yourself against an innovative process, if you're an established player with a lot on the line.

      These include, "Buying legislators to change the law in favour of your outdated business model" (that would be the RIAA way) and, "Obliterating the competition by monopolistic business practices, FUD and various forms of technological and license-based customer lock-in" (the Microsoft way), and so on.

      Big oil has a large investment in centralized production facilities and distribution networks. That existing infrastructure poses a substantial barrier to entry to any new players, which is just the way big oil wants it. Who wouldn't welcome limited competition and a familiar playing field where all your opponents are known quantities? A technological shift to decentralized production would be a major economic threat to big oil for this reason, because it will create many opportunities for new players with no costs from old tech to enter the fuels market.

      There are two responses to this: buy in to the new technology, or fight it with every legal and most illegal means at your command.

      History tells us with a high degree of certainty that some companies will take the first road, and a few of them will succeed, but most will take the second, and all of them will fail.

      Companies have many of the characteristics of individuals: attitudes, aptitudes, outlooks. Changing the way a company does business is like an individual changing careers. Some people can manage it, others just don't have the flexibility to succeed, and most are simply too timid to try and would rather fight tooth and nail to maintain the safe and familiar status quo.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    20. Re:I'm waiting. by Dan+Ost · · Score: 1

      Pharm companies do what you suggest and it generally gets them a one-time 3 year extension
      making the effective patent duration 23 years.

      --

      *sigh* back to work...
    21. Re:I'm waiting. by Xeth · · Score: 2, Informative
      A trade secret is just what it sounds like, a secret. You develop something and don't tell anyone. So let's say I invent a way to turn lead in to gold at my company. I decide to keep it a secret. I release the plans to nobody and make all my employees sign an NDA. Thus I'm the only one who can do it. Fair enough, but there's no special legal protection. If a rival happens to discover how I do it, they are free to use it, it's not a secret anymore.
      That's ever so wrong
      --
      If your theory is different from practice, then your theory is wrong.
    22. Re:I'm waiting. by DavidShor · · Score: 1

      Nope, they do release "control release" drugs that last longer or a slightly modified but "modern" molecule, and then patent that. The old drug is promptly snatched by a generic firm and sells it for a fraction of the price. the only foul play is that drug reps stop promoting it, so brainwashed doctors usually prescribe the newer(usually equally effective, if slightly more inconvenient) drug for a much higher price to scared inept patients(whose insurance usually happily picks up most of the bill).

      That describes essentially all anti-depressants after Prozac, most ADD meds after Ritalin, cholesterol lowering drugs after Lipitor(just went generic), all of those acid reflux meds, etc.

    23. Re:I'm waiting. by Medievalist · · Score: 1
      Because energy companies have all the infrastructure in place to continue profiting off of petroleum. Switching over to alternative fuels would require massive restructuring of their operations and investment in new infrastructure.
      Unless the alternative fuel is hydrogen, a'la hydrogen fuel cell.

      Fool Cell Cars will use the existing infrastructure, because the hydrogen will be cracked from petrochemicals delivered by the existing tanker fleet to the existing gas station.

      That's what it's all about, friends. You're being sold a bill of goods that is intended to keep the current economic and political power structures intact. If the geeks and boffins (uh, that would be us) can be sent chasing after hydrogen, then we won't be spending our time actually solving the petroleum dependency problem with destabilizing new technologies.

      From "The Hydrogen Report, Executive Summary, An Examination of the Role of Hydrogen In Achieving U.S. Energy Independence":

      "Though it is not our intention to politicize the issue of the hydrogen economy, we take strong exception to the five principal foundations of the proposed Bush Hydrogen Fuel Plan:

      1. Fuel cells are a proven technology

      False. Fuel cells are proven to work, but the technology to reduce manufacturing cost by an order of magnitude has not been developed, nor has the reliability or durability of low-cost fuel cells been demonstrated. In addition, we do not support the prevailing view that hydrogen is the best fuel for fuel cells.

      2. The (Hydrogen Fuel Plan) initiatives will overcome key technical and cost barriers for fuel cells

      False. Even if fuel cell technology advances dramatically, the major cost barriers are associated with the manufacturing and distribution of hydrogen fuel itself. These issues are inexorably linked to the laws of physics and thermodynamics.

      3. Hydrogen fuel will help ensure America's energy independence

      False. America will consume substantially more non-renewable energy in a hydrogen economy that it consumes today. Unless our huge reserves of coal (or nuclear power) are tapped, we will be increasingly dependent on foreign energy supplies (of oil and natural gas) with each passing year

      4. Fuel cells will improve air quality and dramatically reduce greenhouse gas emissions

      False. Again, America will consume substantially more fossil energy in a hydrogen economy that it consumes today and therefore create more emissions. The public needs a much more fundamental understanding of these critical issues - as do politicians.

      5. Hydrogen is the key to a clean energy future

      False. As we have seen, hydrogen is quite a dirty fuel as currently manufactured. In our view, the only viable, clean, and scalable methods for producing enough energy to manufacture the huge quantities of hydrogen required are nuclear and Zero Emissions Coal. Neither of these technologies are the focus of the Bush plan.

    24. Re:I'm waiting. by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      Umm ok except that works for 20 years tops. That's how long a patent lasts, they aren't perpetual.

      You mean you really don't see the value of extending the oil oligopoly for 22 years, and getting two decades to purchase the outfits that would become the irresistable competition?

      That's why big oil invested in and half-took-over car companies: because otherwise, the car companies would have gotten into a feature war over dropping fuel use. The important thing isn't getting it buried forever. The important thing is getting 20 years with their superdeep pockets to take over the next market segment.

      Never make the mistake of thinking Big Oil is anything other than agile. They've made their way through three fundamental energy sector changes already. This is their mechanic: postpone it long enough to maneuver into owning it, so that when the inevitable change comes, it's still them who ends up winning.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    25. Re:I'm waiting. by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you are the one who is wrong, based on the link _you_ provided.


      "Improper means" includes theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means;

      Proper means include:

      1. Discovery by independent invention;
      2. Discovery by "reverse engineering", that is, by starting with the known product and working backward to find the method by which it was developed. The acquisition of the known product must, of course, also be by a fair and honest means, such as purchase of the item on the open market for reverse engineering to be lawful;

      3. Discovery under a license from the owner of the trade secret;
      4. Observation of the item in public use or on public display;
      5. Obtaining the trade secret from published literature.


      So the parent poster is correct, in that someone who "happens to discover" the process has just as much right to use the process as anyone else if the only protection is "trade secrets".

      You are correct if someone TAKES the secret from you without your knowledge or permission ("theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means"), but completely wrong if someone DISCOVERS the secret - 'independent invention','reverse engineering','license from the owner','Observation of the item in public use or on public display',or from published literature.

      From your link, the parent poster is correct that there is "no special legal protection" for trade secrets but there is special legal protection against improper taking of trade secrets.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
    26. Re:I'm waiting. by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      DNC, dude, DNC.

      There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on.

      1) I don't find it in the patent database,
      2) if there was such a thing, the government could appropriate it as 'vital to national security' and use it on government vehicles - not happening
      3) 'big oil' would be able to SET THE LICENSE FEE high enough to recoup the cost of any oil saved by the hardware. They would not care if it existed or not, they would only care that it did not reduce their (currently obscene) profits.

      If I invented such a carburetor, the oil companies would not care about the hardware, they would care that their profits were going to me instead of to them. Buying the patent would get the profits going back to them, and they would be back at the status quo ante.

      Proctor and Gamble has bought out some organic companies and then dissolved them overnite to protect their non-organic trade secrets

      Name names if you can, I can't find any examples that fit your claim. And, again, there would not be any need to 'disolve' the companies to protect trade secrets, just a NDA and keep on trucking. If the company makes widgets at a profit and also knows how to make thingamies, and I don't want them making thingamies, I would not buy them out and make them quit producing (at a profit) the widgets just so that they could not (potentially, at some future time) start making thingamies.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
  8. Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by WillAffleck · · Score: 4, Funny

    I find it interesting that the biodiesel reactor is - literally - the size of a credit card.

    Biodiesel car upgrade $50
    New fuel lines $80
    Energy independence ... Priceless!

    For a free fuel life, there's GTA
    For everything else, there's BiodieselCard.

    --
    Will in Seattle
    1. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 2, Informative

      Energy independence ... Priceless!

      So it's really going to suck that we have to buy the corn from Mongolia.

      KFG

    2. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it would. They would have to pump in water to turn the corn into cream corn to ship it back out again. At least the environmentalists won't have a cow if the pipeline has a leak since cream corn is very biodegradeable.

    3. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      So it's really going to suck that we have to buy the corn from Mongolia.

      No, not really. Remember: there's a LOT of ariable land in this country. As the price of oil keeps going up, we're getting closer and closer to the point where an acre of corn-for-fuel looks like a better and better deal.

      In less than 200 years, expect the United States to be back as a net exporter of "oil", due both to the loss of fossil fuels and our high tech return to our agrarian roots.

    4. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Just like all my other credit card sized items, no doubt this too will burst into flames from over extend use.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 0, Troll

      . . .there's a LOT of ariable land in this country.

      Too bad they scraped all the topsoil off of it in order to build housing developments for people who now have to drive 20 miles each way to get to work and back.

      KFG

    6. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what's your better idea?

    7. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by davidsyes · · Score: 1

      Gives a whoooole new meaning to ....

      "Charge Carred"

      And, if it acts as your ignition key, then it could be...

      "Plug-in-Drive"

      --
      Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
    8. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by CrazyDuke · · Score: 1

      Considering the United States is by far the largest exporter of corn in the world, I find this unlikely. We even export corn to Mexico. If I remember correctly, right now, the price of corn is so cheap the industry has to be heavily tax subsidized to survive. If we import anyone elses corn in significant quanitities, someone's screwed up.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced influence is indistinguishable from control.
    9. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by MrSnivvel · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I generally agree, and welcome with open arms, with your point, but have just one thing to point out:

      Screw corn. There are crops that are much better suited for oil production. My personal bias is for Hemp. These are not for the NORML reasons people think of. Here is a chart that illustrates the gal./acre of various crops http://www.journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.ht ml. From that chart, Hemp produces over twice as much oil in a single growing as does corn. Coupled with that and the fact that Hemp in most parts of the continental US, multiple plantings per year can be achieved. The South can get at least 3, maybe 4 plantings. Hell, it's a weed, not like it has the genetic capacity to survive.

      Of course, there is that minor technicality of the Porky Pigs of the DEA being unenlightened; but with the price of Oil at ~$73 a barrel and climbing, the chances for change increase with the continued upward movement.

      We can only hope.

    10. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      So what's your better idea?

      Get used to using less fuel, and using it more wisely.

      KFG

    11. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      This post was not a troll. I'd just come back from one of my now former favorite bike rides in the country.

      The post was the voice of despair.

      It is also factual. Go take a bike ride in the country and see for yourself.

      KFG

    12. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      Locally produced hemp oil was actually Henry Ford's national fuel of choice.

      He fought a huge war against J.D. over it. He lost. Hence the banning of "marijuana" as one of the tools of the war.

      KFG

    13. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      If we import anyone elses corn in significant quantities, someone's screwed up.

      Yeah, like relying on it as a major fuel source.

      KFG

    14. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by cduffy · · Score: 1

      So what's your better idea that's actually going to happen?

    15. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by leon.gandalf · · Score: 0

      Actually if the US government wasn't paying farmers NOT to grow crops there would be PLANTY of cheap corn and soy for alternate fuels.

    16. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      So what's your better idea that's actually going to happen?

      You're going to get used to using less fuel, and using it more wisely, like it or not. With gas prices triple what they were only a few years ago it's possible that this process has already begun. You may well joyfully paticipate in the utter rape of the Earth before succumbing to the inevitable though, leaving you with far fewer resources at the end of things than you could have arranged.

      If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. Your desire for cheap, pleantiful energy will not be sufficient to make so.

      KFG

    17. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      A comforting illusion, until you've actually tried selfsufficient farming for energy yourself.

      You'll find that there will only be plenty of cheap corn and soy so long as you have cheap and plentiful petroleum products to run the farm on.

      KFG

    18. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by cduffy · · Score: 1

      You may well joyfully paticipate in the utter rape of the Earth before succumbing to the inevitable though, leaving you with far fewer resources at the end of things than you could have arranged.

      Yup, that's what's going to happen. I thought you had a proposal which would lessen the blow. If you don't, what's the point of talking about it?

    19. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      what's the point of talking about it?

      Haven't a clue, so why are you?

      KFG

    20. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by Blackknight · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You don't need new fuel lines if your engine is made within the last 20 years or so. Also, there's no need to upgrade anything, just fill your car and go.

      I've been making biodiesel for a few years now and it still gets me just how uninformed everybody is on it.

      You can see pics of my reactor at http://www.watters.ws/gallery/biodiesel. I just uploaded some newer pictures last week.

    21. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

      We don't need corn, we can use Algae and the pollution from the salton sea .

      http://blog.myspace.com/ex_misltech

                      * Soybean: 40 to 50 US gal/acre (40 to 50 m/km)
                      * Rapeseed: 110 to 145 US gal/acre (100 to 140 m/km)
                      * Mustard: 140 US gal/acre (130 m/km)
                      * Jatropha: 175 US gal/acre (160 m/km)
                      * Palm oil: 650 US gal/acre (610 m/km) [2]
                      * Algae: 10,000 to 20,000 US gal/acre (10,000 to 20,000 m/km)

      Ex-MislTech

      --
      google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
    22. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by cduffy · · Score: 1

      I'm not talking about any proposal on my part (which will lesson the blow and actually get implemented), because I have none and don't claim to have one either. You were suggesting (by responding to a post asking what your solution was) that you might have a proposed course of action -- but all I understand you to have provided in this thread is mere fantasy (read: corrections which require massive-scale actions which are economically suboptimal in the short term) or the same reality that's going to happen anyhow (an economically-forced adjustment occuring after it's too late to avoid the negative consequences associated with the same).

      What's the point of yelling to the world that the sky is falling unless there's something you or I can do to stop it?

    23. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So whats to stop the farm diesel equipment from running on biodiesel?

    24. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      Absolutely nothing, it's a dandy way to farm, if you have the acreage, labor and time to devote to it. It still leaves you a ways from petroleum independence though . . .

      And doesn't really do too much to help you commute to work.

      The magic of petroleum occurs because it is found energy. Sure, you have to pump and refine it, but you don't really have to "make" it, it's just there.

      The corn/hemp/soy you're going to have to grow. It's expensive in land (and land cost money to purchase, interest on financing and the annual tithe) labor, energy and land usage (soil depletion, etc). The cost is high. The yield after extracting the energy you need to produce it is low.

      Biodiesel is only at the price it is now because it is produced using large amounts of petroleum. If demand becomes high the price will skyrocket, and burn ever more petroleum in the process, until that's all gone.

      Then the skyrocketed price of biodiesel will skyrocket. There is no magic bullet. Move to the city and learn to walk . . .in the dark.

      KFG

    25. Re:Will that be cash - or biodiesel? by kfg · · Score: 1

      What's the point of yelling to the world that the sky is falling unless there's something you or I can do to stop it?

      We can't stop it as individuals, but individuals can still learn to live without complete dependence on the sky, and maybe get under the table until the fall is over.

      There are any number of practical steps one can take, but they all boil down to getting used to using less energy, not finding new, magical sources.

      We were gifted capital. We squandered it. Time to tighten the belt and get on with life without it. That's what happens when you blow the family fortune and the dot.com bubble bursts.

      Oh, and I'm not at all predicting doom and gloom, simply a return to "normal." To history the past century will just be a spike on the graph. Life will go on, and there isn't any particular reason it shouldn't be good.

      Although a lot of people might have to die first. A lot of people.

      Why not just get used to living with less energy? For instance, don't move 20 more miles away from work.

      KFG

  9. Soon to be assassinated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or to disappear.
      I'm sure the oil companies and the Bush family would like to invite him over for a sphagetti dinner.
      To bad he won't make it home.

  10. How much juice is this going to produce? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Given that the pipes are smaller than a human hair, it's funny that the article says nothing about how many devices would you need to pump out commercially viable quantities.

    From the article:
    The device - about the size of a credit card - pumps vegetable oil and alcohol through tiny parallel channels, each smaller than a human hair, to convert the oil into biodiesel almost instantly...The device is small, but it can be stacked in banks to increase production levels to the volume required for commercial use.

    1. Re:How much juice is this going to produce? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Think like a catalytic converter on your car. each cell in the honeycombe is small but in parallel(each device having multiple channels) you get a large flowrate. Each device produces only a miniscule amount but its more than the flow of a single hair sized pipe. "Arranged this way, a unit about the size of a computer printer and costing $1,000 to $5,000 could produce as much as 50,000 to 100,000 gallons of biodiesel a year." -the other article on the device.

      On a side note the device still does use NaOH but its just the catalyst and says on the pipe linings. Think a cars Catalytic converter agian.

    2. Re:How much juice is this going to produce? by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 1

      My head is covered with devices the size of a human hair. There are thousands of them, enough to keep my head warm(er) in the winter.

      There are lots of things that use zillions of tiny particles to do massive work. Think of the transitors in the CPU that's running your web browser.

      --
      All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
  11. Well now that's just silly. by ScrewMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    I mean, my car already runs on a credit-card-sized device. It's called a credit card.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
    1. Re:Well now that's just silly. by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 1
      I mean, my car already runs on a credit-card-sized device. It's called a credit card.

      Following that line of reasoning, I can argue that my car is essentially human-powered, and an employer is a catalyst and lots of greenbacks are a more refined form of human. Unfortunately, it appears rather obvious that I need to work on the efficiency of this means of transportation, since I seem to be working awful damn hard and using more and more energy per mile as time goes on.

      --
      This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
    2. Re:Well now that's just silly. by edwardpickman · · Score: 0
      I mean, my car already runs on a credit-card-sized device. It's called a credit card.

      Funny my wife runs on a credit as well.

  12. Cellular Reactions. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Essentially, the reactors, which can range in size from less than a square inch to several square inches, use tiny, parallel channels no larger in diameter than a human hair, to bring the alcohol and vegetable oil into contact with each other in the presence of a sodium hydroxide catalyst.

    What results is not only a tiny stream of 100 percent biodiesel fuel, but also glycerin, the latter having uses in making soaps and even fossil fuel-free plastics.

    The microreactors, each of which produces only a minute amount of biodiesel, are designed to be used with thousands of others of the same size in a single, integrated system."

    Sounds like the mechanical equivalent of an organ.

    1. Re:Cellular Reactions. by MachDelta · · Score: 1
      Sounds like the mechanical equivalent of an organ.
      I believe that's spelled "Beowulf Cluster" around here.
    2. Re:Cellular Reactions. by Half+a+dent · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "What results is not only a tiny stream of 100 percent biodiesel fuel, but also glycerin, the latter having uses in making soaps and even fossil fuel-free plastics."

      Now just add the glycerin to a couple of acids in the correct quantities and BOOM! (Actual details not supplied for pretty obvious reasons!)

    3. Re:Cellular Reactions. by nhavar · · Score: 1

      So what you are saying is that this is a device that can be easily used by terrorists for bomb making. It's a good thing our president is ever vigillant. This terrorist loving scientist and his invention will be picked up soon so that America remains safe and secure.

      --
      "Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
    4. Re:Cellular Reactions. by Half+a+dent · · Score: 1

      Go in to any home depot, drug store or school chemistry lab and you can get chemicals that do nasty things when they react together. When in their seperate forms it is not a question of possession that is illegal but one of intent (much harder to prove of course).

      Virtually any technology can be used for an undesirable purpose. The government would more likely prevent the public use of this technology to stop people getting cheap diesel and evading fuel taxes.

      Terrorists are resourceful and will find a method of causing destruction (hijacking planes did not require explosives). We always need to think seriously before restricting liberties to avoid "terror" because those liberties will be much harder to restore once the danger has passed.

    5. Re:Cellular Reactions. by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      The details are spelled out in most encyclopedias. The World Book Encyclopedia also includes the instruction "stir carefully."

    6. Re:Cellular Reactions. by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Your post makes me wonder if we could make a car that ran on nitroglycerin. Just as a theoretical thing - I'd never want to drive something that could explode at the slightest jolt. I'd assume each cylinder would have to have one hell of a minute amount of nitroglycerin injected for detonation, though, since that's some powerful stuff.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    7. Re:Cellular Reactions. by willCode4Beer.com · · Score: 1

      Because those details are a strongly guarded secret
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitroglycerin#Prepara tion
      http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Nitroglycerin
      And of course the government tries to keep this information
      http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/9704a/04wtc97.htm
      a secret so nobody can figure out how to make it.

      Sorry to give you a hard time there. Its just that your comment was funny.

      --
      ----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
  13. Really? by LoRdTAW · · Score: 3, Funny

    "a unit about the size of a computer printer and costing $1,000 to $5,000 could produce as much as 50,000 to 100,000 gallons of biodiesel a year."
    "Jovanovic compared it to Hewlett-Packard when that company invented the inkjet printer cartridge."


    Looks at printer sized bio diesel generator: ...REPLACE CYAN BIO DIESEL CARTRIDGE...

    This guy must really like printers.

    1. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PC LOAD DIESEL. What the fuck does that mean!?

    2. Re:Really? by WilliamTS99 · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of another article that I had read on here about printing skin using ink jet tech. I believe there will be many great innovations derived from the principles behind it. From printing skin cells and creating solar cells for energy production. The possibilities are endless. Though I think that oil will be a lot harder to push through those tiny holes. http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/01/2 0/2257252 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2002/04/02040 2080207.htm http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3079001/

    3. Re:Really? by feyhunde · · Score: 1

      More like HP has a massive compound in the same town. And several of his partners work/worked for HP. I know one of the prototypes was built under another prof who also spends 1 day a week at the printer cartridge factory in town on his way to retirement. Essentially when you talk with someone who spent the last 30 years working on printers, it rubs off and makes you talk about em.

      Not to mention that HP has sometimes been good with funding and he might be trolling for some.

      --
      I'd say more, but my guild is raiding.
    4. Re:Really? by stud9920 · · Score: 1

      Than analogy makes sense: soon gas will be at 40$ per 10 ml too.

  14. I think we should use animal fat by dteichman2 · · Score: 2, Funny

    It's more concentrated in terms of caloric value (energy).

    Plus, PETA's reaction would be hysterical.

    --


    Silence is golden... and duct tape is silver.
    1. Re:I think we should use animal fat by WillAffleck · · Score: 1

      It's more concentrated in terms of caloric value (energy).

      Plus, PETA's reaction would be hysterical.


      Well, first of all, the biodiesel reactor is the size of a credit card.

      For animal fat, well, I always use a frying pan - that's a bit bigger.

      And the global warming gas used in growing animals is a lot more than that in growing plants, so ...

      --
      Will in Seattle
    2. Re:I think we should use animal fat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop saying it's the size of a credit card. The entire array necessary to produce fuel isn't the size of a credit card. One element of the array is as thin as a credit car.

    3. Re:I think we should use animal fat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then our girl friends can eat all the cake and chocolate they want and we can give them a regular liposuction to run our cars!

  15. Re:We're saved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    you can take the tinfoil hat off.

    x-ray machines generate the x-rays by using that voltage to accelerate electrons which slam into targets, causing x-rays to be emitted.

    sparks don't emit x-rays.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray

  16. NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by MonkeyBoyo · · Score: 1, Informative
    Fing ignorant science writers.
    The main article says:
    Conventional production involves dissolving a catalyst, such as sodium hydroxide, in alcohol, then stirring it into vegetable oil in large vats for about two hours. The mixture then has to sit for 12 to 24 hours while a slow chemical reaction forms biodiesel along with glycerin, a byproduct.

    The glycerin is separated and can be used to make other products, such as soaps, but it still contains the chemical catalyst, which must be neutralized and removed using hydrochloric acid, a long and costly process.
    NaOH + glycerin = soap.
    1. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by WillAffleck · · Score: 1

      doesn't it depend on the actual charge and resultant biochemical structure?

      for example, it could have a double positive charge ++ or even a negative ionized charge.

      --
      Will in Seattle
    2. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by WhoDatBe · · Score: 1

      Don't dismiss technology like this so quickly. This country's dependance upon fossil fuels is (one of) our biggest problems politically. Ideas like this would allow us to greatly, if not totally, rid ourselves of this burden. If the technology is feasible, and can be created cheaply and efficiently enough that I can buy a tank of gas without having to sign away my mortgage, I would gladly trade in my car. I am not even talking about running the device at my house either, I would fill up at a gas station just so I could appease the SOB's who are charging me almost three dollars a gallon as is!

    3. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      NaOH + fatty acid ---> soap

      glycerin makes soap more runny. it doesn't react as an acid.

    4. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by compro01 · · Score: 1

      well, this is pretty much a solution to 1/3 of the problem.

      one of the parts is getting the raw materials (the vegetable oil or whatever they want to use) as there simply isn't really enough available land (land that isn't being used for growing food) to be able to supply anything near the current demand. even if they use waste oil (which is already used in other industries such as soap and cosmetics) and waste animal fats, that still won't come close. but even just 10% of total consumption would make a good difference in things.

      another is getting oil companies to adopt it, as I'm pretty sure that its still presently more profitable to pump oil outta the ground and refine and sell it, especially at the current prices of oil and gas, which as far as anything I've seen, is way out of wack of the costs of production.

      and there might also be a 4th third in the whole fact that most people in the US (and pretty much the entire continent, for that matter) still don't seem to like diesel engines, and think that they're still the messy, smelly, smokey engines of 30 years ago.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    5. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "and there might also be a 4th third in the whole fact that most people in the US (and pretty much the entire continent, for that matter) still don't seem to like diesel engines, and think that they're still the messy, smelly, smokey engines of 30 years ago."

      Cars like the Audi R10 will hopefully be changing this misconception. Powerful, Efficient, and Quiet. But yes, all the Ford Powerstrokes and the likes are disgusting.

    6. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by WhoDatBe · · Score: 1

      one of the parts is getting the raw materials Agreed, but if the demand for biodeisel spiked, the market would respond. I hear this argument a lot, and simply can't accept it as a long term problem that would require some kind of major effort to overcome. Also, as you said, 10% would be a big help. That would be something like half a million barrels of oil A DAY just for the US (or maybe I have the number wrong in my head and that would be world wide [500 million barrels/day is the number I remember]). Either way, holy cow!

      another is getting oil companies to adopt it I really couldn't care less, and neither should you. The oil companies are dinoaurs (pardon the pun), and they know it. They have known it for years, we have just (foolishly?) allowed them their delusions because there wasn't anything 'better'. If we as consumers demand biodeisel, some smart entrepeneur will sell it and will make billions if sold properly. The popularity of hybrid cars is proof positive that people are sick of OPEC and their ilk. Furthermore, consider the trucking industry. Have you seen what they are paying for normal diesel right now? A single semi truck uses hundreds of gallons a day...

      most people .... don't seem to like diesel engines I don't agree with this, but you are correct on the surface. If people can be made to watch (and enjoy) shows like "American Idol" or "Who Wants To Be A Millionaire", then they can also be made to understand that diesel cars are far better, faster, and shinier now than even five years ago. I would like to think people are smarter than that, but sadly most are not, so run a bunch of commercials during American Idiot showing Audi's diesel powered concept race car that will be running LeMans this year zooming past a gas pump and I bet my next paycheck the phones would be ringing off the hook. Diesel has gotten a bad rap over the years, but its starting to come into its own, and the average family in this country is desperate for an (economic) alterantive to gasoline.

      The simple fact of the matter is, it all comes down to cost. If this guy can produce biodiesel on the cheap, and no one adopts it, I will lose the last shred of hope I have in humanity.

    7. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by Lord+Aurora · · Score: 1
      Actually, you're absolutely wrong. NaOH is a catalyst.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel_production can it explain it in simple terms.

      I'd explain it myself, but it's late and I'm tired. Rest assured, though, NaOH is the catalyst.

      Fing ignorant science writers usually know their stuff.

      Which is why they became Fing science writers, as opposed to Fing pulp fiction writers.

      --
      The heavens do not fall for such a trifle.
    8. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by bloobloo · · Score: 1

      One of the problems with diesel in the states is that it's still higher in sulphur than in the EU. California is improving the regulations and it will likely be copied across the US. Hopefully this will change matters.

    9. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by 0xC2 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You are half correct. The intended process is transesterification, which is direct (stepwise) substitution of the glycerol in fat with three molecules of alcohol (say for example ethanol). So one large triglyceride (a molecule of fat) is broken down to 3 fatty acid ethyl esters and one molecule of glycerin. This process is catalytic, and can be catalyzed by acid or base.

      (BTW, oil = liquid fat).

      The problematic side reaction is hydrolysis of the oil to fatty acids (i.e. saponification to soap), due to the presence of water in the crude oil. This side reaction is compounded by the difficulty of mixing the fat and alcohol during reaction (fat and alcohol not completely miscible), which reduces the efficiency of the catalytic transesterification, thereby increasing the extent of the unwanted side reaction (saponification to soap). Also crude oils contain fatty acids which could quickly neutralize a catalytic amount of sodium hydroxide (stopping the process).

      Therefore the conventional (batchwise) process is to treat the fat with excess sodium hydroxide in a non-catalytic initial step; whatever water is present is consumed in a conventional, non-catalytic saponification to sodium salts of fatty acids, glycerin, and excess sodium hydroxide. Any fatty acid is converted to its sodium salt. All of which are easily removed from the fat (oil). The resulting purified fat is suitable for the catalytic transesterification process to biodiesel.

      I'm a chemist, but haven't worked with these microreactors, so the following is guessing:

      A microprocessor can increase the efficiency of the desired transesterification by allowing intimate mixing of the alcohol and the fat, which is half the battle in this case. Also, a continuous processor can have advantages over batch processing in that the reaction conditions (pH, temp, etc.) can be dynamically controlled.

      My guess is that the fat (oil) would still require pre-treatment to remove water, fatty acids, and fine particles before entering the fuel cell.

      --
      Be heard || Be herd
    10. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      The other way to combat the free fatty acid (FFA) problem in the base oil is the use acid esterification before the base catalyzed transesterification. That way less soap is created, and less excess base catalyst is needed. The lower quality the oil input (the more it has been used for frying, etc or animal fats, etc) the more FFA's there are and the more it tips the balance towards the acid esterification step making sense. I'm not sure what most biodiesel plants actually do though, as it may be more industrially efficient to just deal with the extra soap rather than bothering with the acid step that needs neutralizing before the base step. It would depend on the quality of the oil comin in. I do know commercial plants wouldn't use a batch method, the continuous methods are more efficient for producing large quantities. But you're right, these new reactors would still probably require filtering and drying of the oil to make it work well. I'd assume dirt particles would clog up the micro channels and make them worthless.

    11. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by 0xC2 · · Score: 1

      I considered the acid esterification also. My guess is that the extra energy (heating) required to effect the acid-catalyzed esterification of the residual fatty acid would be more than energy gained by recovering that oil.

      For that matter, acid can also catalyze the transesterification. Why base is used I don't know, but I suspect that the base catalysed reaction runs smoothly at low temperatures, which saves energy and reduces side products (sulfuric acid + fats + heat = black tar?).

      --
      Be heard || Be herd
    12. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by compro01 · · Score: 1

      One of the problems with diesel in the states is that it's still higher in sulphur than in the EU. California is improving the regulations and it will likely be copied across the US. Hopefully this will change matters.

      i belive that biodiesel solves that problem, as AFAIK, biodiesel is naturally low sulfer.

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
    13. Re:NaOH is a reactant not a catalyst by compro01 · · Score: 1

      i certainly hope you are right. most people seem to be unaware of the massive advancement of diesel engine tech that has been happening over the past couple decades other in Europe.

      about the only diesel powered things most people see are either farm machinery or semi trucks, with the occasional Jetta TDI, which most people don't even know is a diesel (i did a little random quiz among people i know and only 2 out of 10 knew it was a diesel!)

      --
      upon the advice of my lawyer, i have no sig at this time
  17. Re:We're saved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it isn't like biodiseil would need spark plugs or anything.

    Oh, and you're a crazy loon.

  18. Re:We're saved! by daniel_newton · · Score: 1

    correct me if im wrong but...

    diesel engines use glowplugs not sparkplugs you ninny

  19. Not a good way to become oil-independent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    The energy returned on energy invested for biofuel is about 1/10th what it is for petroleum, and the current method of food production is completely dependent on fossil fuels, and INSUSTAINABLE.
    http://www.energybulletin.net/5045.html

    The ONLY answer is to switch to nuclear power, ASAP.

    1. Re:Not a good way to become oil-independent by kfg · · Score: 1

      the current method of food production is completely dependent on fossil fuels, and INSUSTAINABLE.

      You didn't RTFA. They're talking about local production of fuel by the farmers themselves from their own crops.

      So I'll be able to fuel my farm machines, to grow my crops, to fuel my farm machines, to grow my crops, to. . .

      And all I'll need is this reactor. . .oh, yeah, and an oil press. . .and a still to make the alcohol, from my crops. . .and some sort of fuel for the still. . .

      But at least I can do all of this in my copious free time when I'm not actually tending to or harvesting the crops.

      KFG

    2. Re:Not a good way to become oil-independent by Randall_Jones · · Score: 1

      I don't think farmers are too averse to operating stills. It'd be cool to see vintage prohibition-era moonshine operations repurposed, too.

    3. Re:Not a good way to become oil-independent by Zobeid · · Score: 1

      The current methods of doing a lot of things are unsustainable, but so what? We'll adapt. Today's farming techniques are adapted to use lots of gasoline, fertilizer and pesticides because those things have been cheap and readily available. When they aren't anymore, then farming will adapt again.

      Another point, the crops that are currently used to produce vegetable oil (particularly soybeans in the USA) are not the most efficient for that. In the long run, algae seem promising. They can grow and produce oil much faster and more efficiently than any vascular plants. Plus, they don't require arable farmland that might otherwise be used for growing food.

      As for nuclear power. . . I think nuclear plants will be critical for meeting our electricity needs. I'm a bit more skeptical about powering vehicles with them, we haven't yet seen which technology will be most practical for replacing gasoline engines. Maybe it will be electric cars powered from supercapacitors or flywheels. Maybe it will be hydrogen fuel cells. Maybe it will be biodiesel. There's lots of horses in that race. The big advantage of biodiesel is that millions of vehicles on the road today can run off it, and the whole distribution system we already have can be used.

  20. Patents only last 20 years... by moosehooey · · Score: 1

    yup

  21. Yeah, Yeah...come back when it works by SpeedBump0619 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    From TFA:

    "If we're successful with this, nobody will ever make biodiesel any other way,"

    So, what you are trying to say is that you haven't ever done it, but in *theory* it should be a phenomenal improvement over exiting methods of biodeisel production...

    I'll be over here holding my breath.

  22. Yeah, but... by Skidge · · Score: 1

    Does it still smell like fried chicken and french fries when you drive down the road?

    1. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't know if you're trying to be cute, or if you're serious.

      I've run B100 for thousands of miles, much of it with the windows down. It has a subtle but distinctive smell, but it doesn't smell like fried food. Either that's a myth, or it's somebody running straight vegetable oil. It's not true for biodiesel.

  23. Two Word (again) by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 1

    Desktop Fusion.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  24. Or is it a good way to become oil-independent? by WillAffleck · · Score: 3, Informative

    The energy returned on energy invested for biofuel is about 1/10th what it is for petroleum

    According to scientific papers searchable in ScienceDirect (if you have university access), the Netherlands is acheiving around 40 percent energy - and since it's derived from solar radiation (sun on plants), this is a lot more efficient than our current 30 percent usage of Canadian Tar Oil Sands, which uses barrels of oil to release more oil from the sands.

    So, from that perspective, it's more efficient.

    Now, it's true that the energy density is not as high, so long-distance movement of such fuels is not as useful as local power plant usage, or local heating. That's a function of caloric mass content and BTU/m2 - but we're only beginning to develop this source, so one can easily expect higher yields as we manipulate the plant genomes and conversion processes.

    --
    Will in Seattle
    1. Re:Or is it a good way to become oil-independent? by eluusive · · Score: 1

      Silliness, Photovoltaics give a much higher efficiency than that. Fuel cells are a great way to store that energy. Biodiesel is a great way to use leftover french fry grease, but large scale production is dumb.

      While you might be inclined to confuse your efficiency ratings, photovoltaics efficiency is measured with respect to the energy input, not the production energy. Since we only care about how much energy it took to produce the thing, it's a lot better than it looks initially. We're talking about net returns of MULTIPLES of the input energy, versus .4 or .3

      I don't know about you, but I'd rather see solar panels everywhere before I'd like to see genetically altered "Power Corn." Especially since the returns are better.

    2. Re:Or is it a good way to become oil-independent? by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      Convetional PV will never return the energy required to produce it, let alone make a profit. The dye PV work might change the cost equation, but it isn't quite ready yet.

      Plants are quite cost and energy efficient solar to portable high-density-energy converters, despite the GP post's claim, and they work today. Nuclear is much better environmentally, but public opinion does not turn on a dime.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    3. Re:Or is it a good way to become oil-independent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Convetional PV will never return the energy required to produce it, let alone make a profit.
      I'm sorry, but you're terribly wrong. Photovoltaics already give much more power than it takes to produce them.
    4. Re:Or is it a good way to become oil-independent? by WillAffleck · · Score: 1

      Silliness, Photovoltaics give a much higher efficiency than that. Fuel cells are a great way to store that energy. Biodiesel is a great way to use leftover french fry grease, but large scale production is dumb.

      Good point, modern photovoltaics in fact do have higher net efficiencies at converting sunlight to electric power, than most biofuels currently available.

      However, the process of creating photovoltaic cells, especially the flexible film solar cells, does create a lot of pollution at the time of creation, which is minimal if viewed over the effective 20+ year lifetime, whereas biofuels created with agricultural products bioengineered for such use and grown in organic conditions without excess inorganic fertilizer have a lower pollution yield per KWhr created.

      However, if we look at using biofuel crops as a method of effective organic crop rotation, with low water usage crops, then it creates a net positive yield compared to photovoltaic cells.

      --
      Will in Seattle
  25. Re:We're saved! by FooAtWFU · · Score: 3, Informative
    Your theory is cutely paranoid, but I believe your understanding of X-ray production is flawed or incomplete. X-rays will not be produced merely because something operates "at the same voltage as" medical X-ray equipment. There is nothing specially magical about having electricity at that voltage. Rather, there are two ways to generate electrons: in the first, you use a synchrotron (a circular type of particle accelerator) and in the second, more traditional manner, you simply run high-energy electrons through a vacuum tube and into a special metallic target: the high-energy electron then knocks loose an electron in the metal and an electron from a higher orbital falls down to take its place (emitting an X-ray photon as it does so - that's flourescence for you). The physics in an internal combustion engine aren't really conducive to this: the electrons are not accelerated in a vacuum, but rather they are conducted along through the gasoline/air mixture (which experiences electrical breakdown and rapidly becomes ionized in the gap between the two electrodes). Even then, consider that undirected X-ray radiation would end up diminishing in intensity with the square of distance (and you've got several feet). And finally, there is also a nontrivial amount of shielding between You and the Engine, in the forms of the engine block (remember, these supposed X-rays are INSIDE the cylinders), the car body, and whatever else is in between.

    If thousands of cancers a year are being blamed on ultraviolet, well, there's a lot more ultraviolet streaming down from the Sun then you could theoretically come up with as coming out of your car engine. Now, secondhand smoke is another matter, and I suspect a highly overrated cancer threat, but that's another story. Don't hold your breath for an "amazing blessing".

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
  26. Re:Really? or why Universities Love Printers by WillAffleck · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Looks at printer sized bio diesel generator: ...REPLACE CYAN BIO DIESEL CARTRIDGE...

    This guy must really like printers.


    Actually, many scientific labs at state universities use printers and printer heads a lot - for example, a new sealed plastic crystal suspension device created at the University of Washington uses HP inkjets (cheap to get, and colored Husky Purple) to deliver reagants in controlled amounts into plastic tubes which are then sealed by laser.

    Every university has a section that recycles computers and printers - so it's easy to divert some of them for use in development of new technologies.

    Thus, using printer technology to create a biodiesel converter is not that unusual.

    --
    Will in Seattle
  27. What I really want to know... by thatseattleguy · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...is whether it can run in reverse: pump in biodiesel and veggie oil, and get pure alcohol out the other end. Then we'll really have something! :}

    1. Re:What I really want to know... by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Suddenly, I have an urge to visit my uncle Earl & check out his moonshine equipment.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
  28. Re:I'm waiting by Cid+Highwind · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on.

    This story has been floating around since the 1950s, far longer than any patent term. Either EvilOilCo has a hundred-year patent to go with their hundren-mile-per-gallon car, or there never was such a device...

    --
    0 1 - just my two bits
  29. biodiesel++ by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Japanese researchers announced several months ago that they've eliminated the need for expensive acids in biodiesel reactors.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  30. Re:We're saved! by Luckster7 · · Score: 1

    You're wrong, but you're close. Diesels ignite via compression only. Glow plugs only heat up the air when the engine is cold; they exist solely to make starting easier. Some diesels don't even have glow plugs, they use grid heaters instead.

    --
    Deuteronomy 13:06-9
  31. They haven't developed anything yet... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 2, Informative

    Basically the concept is on paper only. Why else would he be stating things like "If it works...", or "...could reduce...", "...might not need a catalyst..." etc.? It is because they havn't gotten a working prototype yet. They basically believe that their design could work, as they have done the chemical reaction analysis as well as a design analysis on how to cause the chemical reaction to occur quickly and efficently. But again, this is all on paper still. We don't even know yet if their results from the chemical reaction simulation are correct yet!

    --
    We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    1. Re:They haven't developed anything yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thay've, aparently, gotten proof-of-concept, lab scale device[s] (e.g. one "card", lab purified input, &c.)working. They're looking - as far as I can tell - for funding to get a pilot scale project running (e.g. a small stack of these micro-channel card-reactors, consumer-grade input). If that proves to be feasable, then the next step would be to move on to production scale (e.g. a large stack of these card-reactors, industrial-grade input) at which point, the process, if everything still looks good, would go commercial.

  32. What about the university... by SuperBanana · · Score: 2, Insightful
    I'll be interested to see how much the oil companies pay for his patent so they can bury it for the next fifty years.

    Or how much the university demands in licensing fees.

    Far too much good technology goes unused for years until patents expire because their creators overestimate how much they're worth (or simply get greedy.)

    Dolby had it right. He licensed Dolby technology at a price so cheap (a few cents per tape player) that manufacturers were happy to pay it. So- every tape player ended up with Dolby licensed technology, and he made millions.

    1. Re:What about the university... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the current habit of hanging onto your patent waiting for someone to sue.

      One of the best ways to kill a promising technology seems to be to patent it. Unless you're REALLY reasonable with the licensing (and almost nobody is).

  33. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 1, Interesting

    For all of your wordiness, your answer is nonsensical. X-ray tubes generate X-rays by "accelerating" electrons using the potential gap between an anode and a cathode. This is exactly , precisely, identically how a spark plug acclerates electrons to jump its gap. The energy of the electrons when they reach their destination is determined by ...the voltage potential between the electrodes. Which is exactly, precisely the same in a spark plug as it is in an X-ray tube. Your description of orbital shells is, well, mistaken. Flourescent lights may work that way. Xrays are ionizing radiation. Producing them requires an electron to be knocked free of its atom, and then return, emitting X-ray photons when returning to the orbital shell. While a few of the electrons in a spark plug may be absorbed by the gas an air mixture that is ignited in turn, most of them pass through to the anode. If they didn't the spark plug wouldn't fire at all because of the resistance (Like what happens when your spark plug is fouled with carbon build-up) As for the distance squared factor - there is also several feet between you and the Xray tube at the hospital - there has to be in order to allow the X-rays to spread sufficiently so that their angle of incidence with the film produces a reasonable image instead of a fish-eye view.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  34. Yep - Quite cool by MikeCapone · · Score: 1

    I'm sure there are many more way to improve this technology and make it more efficient and cost-effective.

    After all, it's not like is has had the kind of push that other technologies have had for much longer..

  35. Re:We're saved! by tylernt · · Score: 1

    This is all very interesting, but wouldn't the steel firewall block or reflect any theoretical X-rays away from the driver and passengers anyway? Could be a hazard for pedestrians near fiberglass cars, I suppose...

    --
    DRM 'manages access' in the same way that a prison 'manages freedom'
  36. Ostriches. by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 0, Troll
    As usual, the americans have their heads in the sand, hoping that magic technology will enable them to keep going in their plush trucks.

    Well, no.

    First, the amount of energy needed will stay the same, whether you run your truck on gasoline, diesel, alcohol, natural gas, wood, coal, electricity, hydrogen or gooseshit.

    Second, the result of combustion will always be CO2 (except for Hydrogen and electricity), so forget about cancelling global warming.

    Third, where are you going to grow all the plants needed to make all that vegetable oil and alcohol??? Where are you going to take the energy needed to transform all those plants into biodiesel? How many people will starve so the americans can still move their arses in their plush trucks???

    There is no miracle solution, except to stop relying on cars en masse.

    1. Re:Ostriches. by Kristoph · · Score: 0

      I confess I am not a chemist but does the process of actually growing the biomass to turn into biodiesel not take out at least as much CO2 out of the atmosphere as you put out of the tailpipe. If so, that would be good, right?

      ]{

    2. Re:Ostriches. by TheLink · · Score: 1

      Good yes.

      But not as good at taking CO2 out of the atmosphere as planting lots of trees or other plants and using them to make paper, and then burying the used paper (not recycling it).

      --
    3. Re:Ostriches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not comparing like with like.

      In terms of CO2, anything which takes net CO2 out of the atmosphere is currently good; anything which adds it is bad, and anything which has no effect on that balance is at least Not Part Of The Problem.

      Biofuel, grown sensibly, is close to neutral. There is no current fuel technology that actually takes net CO2 out of the air.

      Carbon sequestration for its own sake is a whole other debate with a whole other raft of competing technologies.

    4. Re:Ostriches. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does the paper help? You'll be wasting energy to produce it, and then it'll decompose once buried, releasing the CO2 again. Planting the trees and leaving them there would be a much better bet, or to remove the CO2 from the system entirely you'd have to shoot the trees into space or something. Wooden spaceships, anyone?

    5. Re:Ostriches. by Alioth · · Score: 1

      CO2 is in a cycle. Plants take CO2 from the atmosphere to create their biomass, which is then turned into biodiesel. So the CO2 released by burning the biodiesel was actually extracted from the atmosphere in the first place. The upshot: no increase in CO2 because now it's a closed cycle.

    6. Re:Ostriches. by Alioth · · Score: 1

      This is unlikely. The decomposition of the paper is likely to release lots of methane, which as a greenhouse gas is four times stronger than CO2.

    7. Re:Ostriches. by SEE · · Score: 4, Interesting

      First, the amount of energy needed will stay the same, whether you run your truck on gasoline, diesel, alcohol, natural gas, wood, coal, electricity, hydrogen or gooseshit.

      Well, yes, but biodiesel's energy comes from the Sun, via photosynthesis. And while solar will eventually run out, when it does the Earth will be uninhabitable anyway.

      Second, the result of combustion will always be CO2 (except for Hydrogen and electricity), so forget about cancelling global warming.

      Except, of course, all the CO2 put out by burning by biodisel is CO2 that the plants took out of the air in the first place, so there's no increase in atmospheric CO2.

      Third, where are you going to grow all the plants needed to make all that vegetable oil and alcohol???

      Ah, now you've struck a useful note. Even if all the Earth's arable land surface were farmed at American productivity levels with maximum-production oil crops, we still couldn't displace ordinary diesel use.

      However, there is an alternative; oily algae. While the infrastructure to start producing it in necessary qantities would be expensive, it has high-enough oil output per acre to be a practical alternative. And the land for it can be vast tracts of desert, the pools filled with seawater.

      Where are you going to take the energy needed to transform all those plants into biodiesel?

      The energy content of biodiesel exceeds the energy necessary to process high-oil algae; the primary energy source for the creation of the long oil chains is the plant's photosynthesis. The result is that biodiesel-powered generators could be used to generate the power for the pressing and conversion process.

      How many people will starve so the americans can still move their arses in their plush trucks???

      None, just like today. Some will continue to starve because of deliberately chosen policies of thier national governments, like every recorded famine of the last thirty years. But changing that is a matter of willingness to violently violate the soverignty of the famine-causing governments, not economics or resource distribution.

      There is no miracle solution,

      Right, just solutions that require difficult and expensive -- but achievable -- engineering.

    8. Re:Ostriches. by lintocs · · Score: 1

      Ahem:

      If the CO2 you're worried about is coming from plants, those plants grow by consuming CO2, and the net change in atmospheric carbon dioxide is (virtually) zero. The problem is when we liberate sequestered carbon dioxide from fossil fuels and change the net atmospheric content.

      QED

  37. $ Cost and Energy Cost of methanol? by Barbarian · · Score: 1

    The article, in typical mass-media fashion, does not name the alcohol, but I assume this is methyl alcohol. That, and the cost of NaOH, makes this a non-cheap process.

    1. Re:$ Cost and Energy Cost of methanol? by Blackknight · · Score: 1

      WRONG. Methanol is about $200 per 55 gallon drum, which is enough to make 255 gallons of biodiesel. NaOH and KOH are available in 50 lb bags or you can buy 2 lbs of Roebic crystal drain cleaner at Lowes for $7.66. The total cost per gallon of biodiesel is around $.50 - $.60 per gallon depending on where you get your supplies from.

    2. Re:$ Cost and Energy Cost of methanol? by pclminion · · Score: 1
      The article, in typical mass-media fashion, does not name the alcohol, but I assume this is methyl alcohol. That, and the cost of NaOH, makes this a non-cheap process.

      You need to actually do the math before making a claim like that.

      At our 330 gallon processing facility (a.k.a., The Barn) it costs us $1.00 per gallon for used oil and another $1.30 per gallon to turn it into biodiesel. The $1.30 includes electricity and other operating costs as well as consumable materials (sulfuric acid, sodium hydroxide, methanol). I don't have the complete cost breakdown handy, but that is what it costs.

      $2.30 per gallon of biodiesel is cheaper than I can buy petro diesel around here.

    3. Re:$ Cost and Energy Cost of methanol? by Savantissimo · · Score: 1

      $200/255gal = $0.78/gal for the methanol alone, so your $0.50-0.60/gal figure sounds a little suspicious. For non-waste oil, it's hard to find anything below $1.50, and then you need to figure labor and equipment plus road tax, so in the end it'll be close to $3.00/gal.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
    4. Re:$ Cost and Energy Cost of methanol? by Blackknight · · Score: 1

      Ok, let me demonstrate. This is based on using 20% methanol by volume and 7 grams per liter of lye.

      $200.00 / 55 = $3.63/gallon methanol cost.

      $7.66 / 907 grams = $0.008511111 per gram lye cost.

      Now, here's the figures for one batch.

      3 * $3.65 + [(15 gallons * 3.78 * 7)($0.0085)] = $14.35 per batch, which is still less that $1.00 per gallon.

      You don't get a 100% conversion so for every 15 gallon batch I only end up with about 13 gallons of useable fuel. I'm also not including my electricity cost but that is almost too small to even measure. I'd still say that the money saved is worth the time spent.

  38. He's safe in Oregon by baomike · · Score: 1

    Few people on the east coast know we're here.
    Sort of the same reason New Mexico license plates have USA on them.

  39. What is the "+1" reply I see nowadays? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On every forum I've seen it's now the fashion to type "+1" on replys. What the hell does this mean? Where I come from this is AD&D talk. I cannot find any info on this new meme.

  40. The diesel engine was designed to run on coal by baomike · · Score: 1

    I seem to remember the first diesels were designed to run on powdered coal mixed with oil. Didn't work too well, cinders, needed special coal etc...
    Actually a "true" diesel likely would run on veg oil or lots of other flameable substances. You need a substance that when blasted onto the cylinder (by an high pressure air blast) that wont burn to quickly. It needs to burn not explode.

    1. Re:The diesel engine was designed to run on coal by tinrobot · · Score: 1

      Coal dust was an early fuel, but the very first diesel engine ran on peanut oil.

      http://www.cyberlipid.org/glycer/biodiesel.htm

  41. Before anyone complains about lack of Oil supply by Pfhor · · Score: 3, Informative

    Combine these reactors with these http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/1 1/1718256 algae who eat CO2 and can be pressed for a vegetable oil, and your coil burning power plant is now more eco friendly. You can also just grow large amounts of other algae and use them to produce the veggie oil also.

  42. I hear ya... by Belial6 · · Score: 1

    I think there are plenty of non-violent protesters that would not only make these black market, but plaster the fact that they are useing it all over the car.

  43. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 2, Informative

    For those of you who were born stupid, the emission of radiation by spark gaps was first discovered by Heinrich Rudolf Hertz - the same one that the Hertz in megahertz is named after - back in 1887. It was Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen who discovered that this phenomenon could be used to produce X-rays in 1895 Here is a paper on building an Xray tube USING SPARK PLUGS. http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServ let?prog=normal&id=RSINAK000072000010003983000001& idtype=cvips&gifs=yes Here are several scientific papers on the production of X-rays by spark gaps in various gaseous media. http://www.slac.stanford.edu/pubs/icfa/fall97/pape r2/paper2.pdf http://www.webcom.com/sknkwrks/xray.htm http://www.electrotherapymuseum.com/_PatentLibrary /_FischerXRaySparkGap/index.htm Morons.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  44. Re:I'm waiting by GodLogiK · · Score: 0

    "There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on."

    "This story has been floating around since the 1950s, far longer than any patent term. Either EvilOilCo has a hundred-year patent to go with their hundren-mile-per-gallon car, or there never was such a device..."

    I remember when I was a kid, maybe in my early teens (so late 80's early 90's) Popular Science or Popular Mechanics had a little feature on the 100mpg engine, i think it even made their front cover. I remember thinking how cool that was because I was pretty into the environment. I almost thought it was only a dream for a while, but now that you brought it up I know it was real.
    those bastards... the conspiracy is real, everyone just thinks they're going insane

  45. Precisely nothing by Ogemaniac · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Didn't your Econ 101 prof erase this myth for you long ago? Simply put, if big oil or anyone else has a useful patent, they could make more money by using it than hiding it.

    IF Big Oil is greedy, and IF Big Oil owns a useful patent, they Will use it.

    1. Re:Precisely nothing by evilviper · · Score: 1
      Simply put, if big oil or anyone else has a useful patent, they could make more money by using it than hiding it.

      You act like this is some inherent law of the universe. It's not.

      There can be many situations in which the profits generated by a fuel-saving device would be miniscule next to the loss of profits for the oil companies.

      In fact I recall a specific case where Honda simply refused to license a specific patent it had on battery technologies, opting to keep it locked-up instead. Due to the overwhelming numbers of search results being purely press-releases about their hybrids, I can't find any more info at the moment.
      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    2. Re:Precisely nothing by Dis*abstraction · · Score: 1

      Dude, not that I disagree with you, but the subject matter of Econ 1101 is why everything you learned in 101 was wrong. Oh and your professor hates you.

  46. Didn't your Econ101 prof dispel this myth for you? by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    It is never profitable to hide a good technology to protect your older inferior technology. Assuming oil companies are greedy, they would USE this patent, not ignore it (assuming it was profitable in the first place).

  47. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 2

    No, simpleton, diesels do in fact not use spark plugs. They use a much higher compression ratio to cause the compressed fuel and air to reach a temperature where the fuel ignites spontaneously. They are assisted by *glow* plugs - which are wires heated by electrical resistance that use no spark whatsoever.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  48. Bigger picture of CO2 by fintux · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's not about whether it creates CO2 when burned or not. It's about where the coal for it comes. In vegetable oil, it comes from the plants, which get it from air, from - yes, CO2.

    And that CO2 would be released after the plant dies anyway, because of all microbic activity etc. So why not to use the released energy tp move a car instead of as food for microbes. So it's kind of recycling the CO2.

    But when you burn fossile oils, then you are creating CO2 from coal that would have staid under ground for a looooong time, so in that case you woud release CO2 into air without getting any CO2 away.

    So there IS a difference. A very significant one.

    1. Re:Bigger picture of CO2 by rjstanford · · Score: 1

      Also, a lot of the energy input is simply sunlight which, especially if we started pulling back some of the Ag subsidies in this countries, would be hitting the fields and not doing anything in particular other than warming dirt. So, yes, growing algae does take more energy in absolute terms than mining coal, but it may well take less non-free energy.

      Also, it has the added benefit that you can do a C02+sunlight -> algae -> C02+motion cycle which is a (relatively) closed loop. After you extract a specific unit oil or coal from the ground, you can't do it again for many, many, many years. Tread lightly, and all that, eh?

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    2. Re:Bigger picture of CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But aren't you missing the fact that, due to the apparent large amount of fuels based on long-dead life forms, there should be a net reduction of C in the environment to match the historic progression of climate we've seen? Using and re-releasing all the CO2 would then be out of balance with history! By burying all that C in landfills, we are offsetting the C we add to the environment by burning fossil fules!

      See, I knew King George was right all along.

    3. Re:Bigger picture of CO2 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense! Where do you think the coal and oil deposits came from in the first place? Clearly not all the carbon is released back into the atmosphere by "microbic activity etc."

  49. Anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can make biodiesel, in the future we'll probably see rich people using these stupid little things, and poor farmers producing biodiesel the "normal" way... it's pretty simple at the moment, i'm not sure if it could get any easier.

  50. Re:We're saved! by johnny+cashed · · Score: 1

    And some don't even use grid heaters or glow plugs. My father had a Ford 4000 tractor that didn't have them. It would even start right up when there was snow on the ground. I was suprised at the time, as up until then, I thought all diesels had glow plugs. The Kubota sure did, and it didn't like to start if you didn't use them (you could start it without them, but it took a while and was hard on the starter). The Ford would crank right up. My car sure won't start without them, unless it is still warm.

  51. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 1

    Some, but not all. Steel is only a fair-to middlin Xray sheild.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  52. If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by Ogemaniac · · Score: 4, Insightful

    they would immediately jump into the car business and make far more money that way than they could selling oil. Variations of this are demonstrated in every basic economics book. Quit spewing this ludicrious, repeatedly-refuted myth.

    For example, let us assume this is the status quo:

    1: Big Oil owns a patent for a 100 mpg car that can be produced at the same cost with the same features as a regular car

    2: A "regular" car costs $20,000, gets 25 mpg, and is driven 100,000 miles (4000 gallons, lifetime) at $3/gallon

    3: Big Oil has a 10% profit margin on gasoline, and Detroit/Japan have a 10% margin on regular cars

    Now, here is the first question. How much would YOU, the average consumer, be willing to pay for a new BigOil brand car? Well, the total cost of car + gas of a regular car is $32000. So as long as a BigOil car costs less in total, you would buy it. Since it will have a gasoline cost of $3000, it stands to reason that you will choose a Big Oil car for any price up to $29000.

    Now, where does Big Oil make more profits? The status quo or by selling BigOil cars? Well, in the status quo, they sell you $12000 worth of gas and keep $1200 after costs. Not bad! But what if they instead sell you a BigOil car? Well, the cost of producing a BigOil or regular car is $18,000. Yet they can sell it to you for $29000, an $11000 profit. They can then snatch $300 more on profits from the remaining gas they sell you, for a total of $11,300.

    Now assuming Big Oil is greedy (a safe assumption), which do you think they would rather have? $1200 or $11300?

    Myth refuted. Please move along.

    1. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they don't want to shell out all the money that it'll cost to build the factories to build the cars... so the huge set up costs eat into that 11300
      Also! even if they didn't have the 100mpg car, they could just build 25mpg cars and make EVEN MORE MONEY! Cutting out the middle man.

    2. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by WoTG · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The cost of an automobile factory is comparable to the cost of an ocean oil drilling platform or those freaky oil sands developments here in Canada. Big Oil is plenty used to billion dollar investments. Besides, they could always contract out manufacturing.

    3. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by Paul+03244 · · Score: 0

      thanks for the cogent argument--sincerely! as I print your post for future reference. mod parent up!

    4. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by ionpro · · Score: 2, Informative

      Except the highest corporate profits of any company EVER was Exxon's profits last year, totaling $44 BILLION (on $332 billion in revenues)[1]. That's not revenues, that's PROFITS. I think they're doing well enough in the oil business, thankyaverymuch.

      [1] http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=XOM

    5. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by bloobloo · · Score: 1

      High enough, but they're hardly going to turn down the opportunity to make MORE profit, are they? If anything, by moving their profits into car manufacture they're going to increase the life expectancy of their existing oil fields to allow longer term profits to continue.

    6. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      uh... exon just made 34 billion in one quarter...

    7. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by c_woolley · · Score: 1

      I agree with your mathematics. I do want to point out a quick thing that I haven't seen come up yet. Government taxes and tariffs. It works in favor of your argument and against it as well, it just depends on the scenario that would be played out.

      Governments tax oil imports and also tax consumers for fuel. There is a HUGE revenue of cash in this for governments. Why doesn't the US use more of their own oil reserves? Might be that they get to charge both OPEC and the US citizens. Might not, but I would guess that this idea isn't too far out there. I'm fully aware that we do not have the refineries out there to take advantage of our own reserves, but again, why haven't we bothered to build them until now? I am not a conspiracy theory type, but I am a realist. Wouldn't it be in a government's (not just the US) best interests to make as much money as possible from taxation and tariffs on something that they are not buying to begin with (since we, the consumer, pay for it).

      On the other hand...If OPEC countries were to begin producing vehicles (I can already hear the camel jokes starting up), they would have to beat out other nations in manufacturing. I strongly beleive that Japan, the US, and the EU would not have to much to worry about there. They do not have the infrastructure in place to begin with. Also, they would need to import steel and other materials in order to kick this process off...from the US or other resource rich countries (they have a lot of sand over there). That would cost them money. They would also be taxed on the export of the vehicles to other countries. And, they would have to guarantee that the quality of vehicle they produce is good enough to compete with others, or they just take another financial hit. So, they could either just pump oil out of the ground, refine it and sell it...or they could try the whole producing their own vehicles thing and attempt to cover costs with their oil profits. In my own opinion, I don't feel that they would be willing to even give manufacturing vehicles a single moment's thought. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there that would love to see OPEC countries attempt this, since it would provide a lot more money to foreign countries and foreign industries with all of the above mentioned costs. Not to mention the foreign governments that would be charging them for the imports and watching them flounder around trying to recover from the losses.

      Might be a good idea to pitch the whole manufacturing thing to them...

    8. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by graffix_jones · · Score: 1

      The one thing you forgot was that people are stupid.

      They buy huge gas guzzlers for $50,000, and spend $6,000 a year to keep them gassed up.

      There's far more profit in it for oil companies to bury technology that would increase fuel efficiency than there is for them to bring it to market. If you haven't noticed, oil is a variable market, whose prices are almost always on the increase, with very little downward pressure.

      Yet oil companies still manage to sell every bit of oil on the market.

      Name one other market in which this is the case? Oh, that's right, there is none. That's because oil is an inelastic product. Automobiles, on the other hand, are a very elastic market, where small price increases can severely curtail the demand for the product, especially in a weak economy.

      Your myth is far from refuted... playing games with math that only a Ph.D. would understand doesn't factor in the average consumer's stupidity when it comes to making long-term decisions, especially with 'status' purchases such as a vehicle.

    9. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

      Your assumption about the 'same cost' is flawed.

      If the car cost more (like the hybrid Prius), there will still be a market (mostly eco-friendly consumers). And the oil industry remains largely intact (in face of new and emerging market demands from India and China).

      The real threst to the existing petrochemical industry is when the cost of the hybrid falls below that of today's gasoline automobile.

      Which is what where we seems to be heading today.

      Basic market force interaction.

    10. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by Mr+Bubble · · Score: 1

      "they would immediately jump into the car business"

      I don't think Big Oil is sitting on any particular patents necessarily, but this is a ridiculous statement. You don't just switch business overnight. It would take decades to acquire knowledgeable employees, set up expensive factories, create supply chain and retail relationships, establish a credible brand name, etc. etc. - not to mention the years it would take, if it were even possible, to convince your shareholders to launch into an entirely new field the company knows nothing about all for the sake of the potential of possibly dominating a market for 20 years.

      In general, it is foolish to vilify groups of people, but, if you don't think the oil barons can't be exceedingly ruthless, than I would suggest that's a bit naive.

      --
      "The world is a construct of forceful imagination. Those who don't know walk around in the reailties of those who do"
    11. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      I wonder what would happen if somone were to infringe on the patent secret 100MPG big oil pattent if it existed. Could you imagine the noise when big oil filed a lawsuit for patent infringement?

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    12. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      "Why doesn't the US use more of their own oil reserves?"

      Simple....to use up all the other reserves first...before we have to do that last resort, use our own.

      C'mon, that actually makes a bit of sense...

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Now assuming Big Oil is greedy (a safe assumption), which do you think they would rather have? $1200 or $11300?

      Myth refuted. Please move along.


      The problem with that is you are assuming that people are smart and will act in their best interests. That they will do their research, and buy the best product after evaluating all the options. Some people certainly will, but most people tend to only pay attention to upfront costs, and ignore things like total cost of ownership. These people are going to see two simular cars in terms of size, performance, and options, and one of them is $9,000 cheaper - and they are going to buy the cheaper car. With that said though, gas prices and fuel economy have been getting a lot of press, and enough people would buy the BigOil car that it would easily be a huge hit.

      The only problem is I'm pretty certain that the famed 100MPG carburetor is just an urban legend.

    14. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by stonecypher · · Score: 1

      they would immediately jump into the car business and make far more money that way than they could selling oil.

      They've been in the car business for about fifteen years. And, no, they make much more money on the oil, for the same reason that Xerox undersells copiers and Gilette undersells razor bases: the ink and the blades may not have as large a flat cost as the things they're refilling, but the comparative margin is huge. Big Oil's getting almost seventy cents on the dollar profit to oil, compared to about nine cents on the dollar for GM. Take a sum of how much you spend on gasoline for a solid month, some time, then do the math. You'll find that oil is wildly more profitable, and that's before you consider the obscene prices at which oil goes in other parts of the world.

      Quit spewing this ludicrious, repeatedly-refuted myth.

      It's repeatedly refuted by people who need to be refuted themselves. Vapor carbuerators do exist and do get on the order of 70-80 MPG, but they can't start instantly, so they'd require essentially half of a complete second engine setup. You'd spend more adding to the machine and performing maintenance than you'd save on fuel, not to mention the safety implications and the fuel consumption implications of all that extra weight.

      Myth refuted. Please move along.

      You got two different statistics wrong by an order of magnitude, and your refutation is staggered by less than two orders of magnitude. Making up statistics then using them to prove things is absurdly fallacious.

      --
      StoneCypher is Full of BS
    15. Re:If Big Oil could make a 100 mpg car by SillySlashdotName · · Score: 1

      Agreed that that is a ridiculous statement.

      Big Oil would not start making cars, they would start LICENSING THE CARBURETOR to car makers.

      If a car has an effective lifetime of 200,000 miles and gets 30 MPG, the car would use 6,667 gallons in its' lifetime (plus for idleing, etc). Assuming Big Oil gets $1 profit (not revenue) per gallon, that is an expected $6,667 from that one car.

      That same car, with a 100 MPG carb would only require 2,000 gallons over its' lifetime, for a Big Oil profit of only $2000 - a difference of $4,667 over the lifetime of the car.

      If Big Oil licensed the patented carb for $5000 they would make MORE PROFIT by having the carb and making it available than by NOT having the carb, or having it and not making it available.

      Big Oil is ruthless and profit motivated, which, to me, shows that they DON'T have such a carb, or they would have marketed it heavily. I am sure they can see which is more, $55.56 per month over 10 years (total of $6,667.20), or $5000 lump sum now, PLUS $16.67 per month for the next 10 years (total of $2000 + $5000 = $7,000).

      In addition, when a car is driven there is a chance for accidents that might kill the vehicle before the expected lifetime - so the 200,000 miles might never be reached. With the $5000 up-front payment, the first 90 mothes are 'pre-paid' and if the vehicle dies before the 200,000 mile mark, Big Oil's profit from that car goes WAY up.

      --
      Acts of massive stupidity are almost never covered by warranty. --me.
  53. fuel from waste plastics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.techno-preneur.net/new-timeis/ScienceTe chMag/june04/india-fuel.htm

      "Both plastics and petro-products are hydrocarbons. The only difference is that in plastics the chain of molecules is longer. So, I wondered if it was possible to break the chain into small segments to convert it into value-added fuel.

    Zadgaonkar claims almost all plastic products -bags, polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) old raincoats and broken buckets can be converted into fuel through her processing method. There 1S also no problem with residue disposal or emission, as the solid residue is coke and the gaseous emission is pure LPG, she says.

  54. rapeseed by sentientbrendan · · Score: 2, Funny

    ah, I see. So with unrefined rapeseed oil, we can skip the step of moving to a hydrogen based economy, and move directly to a "rape" based economy. Where "rape" is the fancy new term for "unrefined rapeseed oil". I'm sure that "rape" will make all of our lives much better.

    1. Re:rapeseed by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2, Funny

      Rapeseed oil needs to be rebranded I admit.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed
      Canola or SupriseSex! perhaps.

      I think in the EU, the Common Agricultural Policy could be tweaked to encourage people to grow it, and you could remove all fuel tax on biodiesel and SVO for a five years or so.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    2. Re:rapeseed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wasn't that being reseached at Duke?

    3. Re:rapeseed by tigersha · · Score: 2, Funny

      Don't laugh. Branson was once complaining about Virgin Olive Oil with some company until the courts told him that he does not have copyright on the word Virgin.

      The Economist with their dry humour suggested that we reclassify olive oils as Normal and Deflowered.

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    4. Re:rapeseed by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 1


      Rapeseed oil needs to be rebranded I admit.


      Maybe we should call it high acid canola oil.

  55. Re:We're saved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It works fine for tractors, but you need one hell of a starter motor to crank to ignition from cold. That plus the size/weight of the battery to run the thing mean that it's not as feasible for cars.

  56. Re:We're saved! by locofungus · · Score: 3, Informative

    Nope. In order to generate X-rays you need to accelerate the electrons to >30kev before they hit the target. This requires a vacuum between the cathode and the anode target.

    In a gas the electrons will never reach more than a few tens ev. As they accelerate they strike another atom and their energy goes in ionizing the gas.

    Tim.

    --
    God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = -@B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.
  57. I don't even know where to begin... by sunbeam60 · · Score: 1

    ... and I'm sure saying this will burn some karma here on Slashdot, but you, Sir, are wrong.

    First of all, you supply no evidence for your hokey-pokey, companies-against-the-people attitude. 100 mpg, puhlese. Show me a patent filing and I'll start listening. Even if you did dig up a patent, that really provides no guarantee of the idea working in practice. People have been patenting perpetual motion machines for years (perhaps that is one of the patents you hold), and last I heard the laws of thermo-dynamics still applies.

    But whatever, I'm sure you've posted your ideas on Wikipedia so it must be true, of course. To be honest, that's not really what irks me with your post.

    What bothers me is your claim that "abolishing the patent system so that a level playing field is attained" would somehow benefit us all. Have you lost your mind?

    My brother works in molecular biology. At the moment he's working with RNA silencing in Barley plants to find cures for some of the diseases that affect third world country crop yields. At the end of the year, there's a chance he might work on cracking the Epsteing Barr virus, which causes Infectious Mononucleosis and have been associated with many types of cancer, but especially breast cancer, it seems.

    There is no chance in hell that research would even happen could the potential results not be patented. No chance, I say, because investors expect return. In your world, you might say this research should happen pro bono, and I'm sure my brother would like that, but he also likes to eat and pay rent. You know, fundamental stuff for living.

    I'd like to hear your suggestion on how money would funnel its way towards research like this without the chance of return. Who would invest in it, expect Bono and Dalai Lama?

    1. Re:I don't even know where to begin... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you heard of state funded research, at all?

    2. Re:I don't even know where to begin... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      Who would do it for free ?

      Id tell you but I'm off to the shops to buy some software.

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
  58. The urban myth is back by dbIII · · Score: 1
    Oil companies are no exception. There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on.
    If this was real one of the car manufacturing countries that are less encumbered by patents would be selling it to us and you would also be able to supply a link to the patent on the US patent office website.

    There are however reasons why people think it's real. Simply changing the distance the mixed fuel travels before it gets burnt reduces fuel consumption dramaticly - but that's on an engine that is idling on a test bed. Put it under load and that all changes. If you want an engine to do some work you have to burn more fuel than the ideal idling state.

  59. What room temp IQ modded this troll? by Flying+pig · · Score: 5, Informative
    This is a joke, and somebody who doesn't know organic chemistry from his ass thought it was a troll. Dear idiot, the sodium hydroxide combines with the added alcohol to form sodium methoxide, which then reacts with the oil. The NaOH is not in fact a catalyst, it is an intermediate reaction component. And yes, it is corrosive.

    Don't they teach kids ANY organic chemistry nowadays? How are we to produce the next generation of recreational drug designers and home-made explosives producers that made the West what it is today?

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by cyclopropene · · Score: 1

      The NaOH is not in fact a catalyst, it is an intermediate reaction component.

      The NaOH base most certainly is a catalyst. This is just a simple base-catalysed transesterification.

      The base is not consumed by the reaction, but regenerated at the end. Perhaps you are thinking about the manufacture of soap, where vegetable oil is reacted with NaOH and the hydroxide is consumed (resulting in the sodium salts of the fatty acids).

      How are we to produce the next generation of recreational drug designers

      Maybe we'll have to outsource to India...

      --
      Shouldn't you be doing something useful?
    2. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by kimvette · · Score: 1

      Well, see, ill effects from drugs deters more people than in the past, and explosives? No building explosives at home and you certainly won't be buying any chemicals at the druggist for experiments - they won't sell them to you. Just TRY buying saltpeter and black powder for making your own model rocket fuel. That's reserved for large corporations in which Cheney & co. own a large stake.

      Why? Because only terrorists actually find chemistry experimentation interesting. Isn't living in a paranoid society where we have exchanged many essential freedoms for temporary security a beautiful thing? ;)

      --
      The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    3. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

      Don't they teach kids ANY organic chemistry nowadays?

      I never learned any of that stuff, until I started dating a scientist.

      How are we to produce the next generation of recreational drug designers and home-made explosives producers that made the West what it is today?

      Hm, I guess they have the war on drugs pretty much figured out, but I wish I could have my money back. Sadly, I don't know how to make explosives or neat designer drugs.

      --
      Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
    4. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by pclminion · · Score: 1
      This is a joke, and somebody who doesn't know organic chemistry from his ass thought it was a troll. Dear idiot, the sodium hydroxide combines with the added alcohol to form sodium methoxide, which then reacts with the oil.

      This is a common mistake. Mixing methanol and sodium hydroxide does not produce sodium methoxide. This is because water is produced as the NaOH dissolves into the MeOH, and the water breaks down the methoxide.

      As somebody who actually makes biodiesel, I assure you that the NaOH is very much intact at the end of the reaction. In fact, it contaminates the glycerin produced and makes it useless without purifying it first. Ask yourself, "where does the sodium go?" It sure as hell doesn't end up in the biodiesel. It remains as lye (or, if there is a great excess of lye, some of it binds to free fatty acids and produces water and soap, which are unwanted byproducts).

    5. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by cyclopropene · · Score: 1
      This is a common mistake. Mixing methanol and sodium hydroxide does not produce sodium methoxide. This is because water is produced as the NaOH dissolves into the MeOH, and the water breaks down the methoxide.


      This is incorrect, and that Wikipedia article you linked is horrible. If there was no methoxide, you would get no biodiesel, only soap. However, since the base is catalytic, methoxide is never present in high concentrations, and doesn't actually need to be. Methoxide and hydroxide are in equilibrium in this situation. They both exist and are interconverted rapidly:

      Na+ + OH- + MeOH \===\ Na+ + OMe- + HOH

      The concentration of each reflects the relative acid dissociation constants of water and methanol and the relative amounts of methanol and water in solution. In the presence of a lot of water, the equilibrium will be shifted to the left towards hydroxide resulting in a lower concentration methoxide. This will lower your yield of biodiesel and increase your yield of soap.
      --
      Shouldn't you be doing something useful?
    6. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by pclminion · · Score: 1
      This is incorrect, and that Wikipedia article you linked is horrible.

      Thanks for letting me know. The text of that article really baffled me when I first saw it, too. Stupidly I decided that it was probably correct, despite the fact that I didn't "get it." I'm still not qualified to update the article but I hope somebody does.

    7. Re:What room temp IQ modded this troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, nobody modded grandparent "Troll" (2 Funny, 1 Overrated, 1 Underrated, at the time of this posting) but parent was correctly modded "Flamebait" for being such a dick. Ha ha!

  60. Whereas this is a troll... by Flying+pig · · Score: 2, Insightful
    100 mpg carburettor? Rest assured, if there was indeed a carburettor which, just by bolting on, caused a heat engine to violate the laws of thermodynamics, the Government would have taken it over by now. And if it was a patent, the text would be in the public domain. As for batteries, if you knew any chemistry you would know that the problem with batteries is that their energy densities are already pushing the theoretical limits. It's just that, because we insist on travelling around at ridiculous speeds, the energy storage needed for our vehicles is enormous.

    However, it's clearly a demonstration of the problems of the patent system that someone as ignorant of basic physics and chemistry as this can get a patent.

    Yes, I am in a bad mood today. Totally ignorant postings and moderations on science and technology always have that effect on me.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
    1. Re:Whereas this is a troll... by ThosLives · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Thank you! Finally, someone who realizes that the only way to get a 100 mpg vehicle is to build one that does not move very fast, cannot go up a hill, and is also otherwise not very useful. For instance, if you have a 100% efficient gasoline engine, and it's running gasoline with 114,300 kJ/gal energy content, and you have a nice low drag coefficient (Cd*A = (.3 x 2 m2) = .6 m2), you could get 121 mpg at 40 miles per hour on a flat road with no wind and no rolling resistance. Now, if you've got a good engine (30% efficient), you'll get 40 mpg with the same engine. Wow, look. That's what we've got today. Now, if you only want to go 25 mph, you can get 100 mpg...

      --
      "There are a dozen opinions on a matter until you know the truth. Then there is only one." - CS Lewis (paraprhase)
    2. Re:Whereas this is a troll... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      umm, well, minus your useless blurb about the second law, you fail to take into account several things:

      The weight of the vehicle
      amount of weight the vehicle carries (passengers, cargo, etc)
      engine type
      cylinders
      transmission type/gear ratio (this is important for fuel consumption as well)
      aerodynamics
      Carburetor's efficiency in controlling fuel output
      engine's efficency in using the energy obtained from the combustion of the fuel

      AND THE ONE THING YOU DID NOT MENTION, which I do not even know the answer to - just how far can a gallon of gasoline REALLY go? Or, for that matter, which octane grade of gasoline you're using (93 does significantly better gas-mileage wise than 87, on average an extra 2-4 miles per gallon more.)

      I've got a two-cylinder, 170-pound junior dragster sitting in my backyard. Four gallon gas tank. The odometer tells me that I get an easy 300+ gallons per tank, so thats 75+ MPG. If that tiny thing can do it, why can't some other vehicle top my significantly useless achievment with some proper tuning, adjustments, and decent add-on parts? Hell, just adding a CHIP in your car can give you much better fuel mileage, or more horsepower, AND THAT'S JUST A PIECE OF SILICON.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  61. Size of a credit card! by suv4x4 · · Score: 1

    Goran Jovanovic reports his invention is approximately the size of a credit card.

    I'm wow-factor-shocked! Size of a credit card.

    Ok now that this has passed, the amount of fuel you can process with one of these a diesel butterfly, for more, you need a pretty large stack of those.

    Pretty impressive and futuristic nonetheless, even if the prospect of carrying a portable biodiesel reactor in your wallet is busted.

  62. What difference does that make? by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    They wouldn't remain the world's most profitable company for long if they were passing up the chance to make $11000 by trading in $1200 that they make now.

  63. Dear consparicy guy by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 4, Informative

    "There is a 100 mpg carburetor patent that an oil company is sitting on."

    Prove it.

    This story has been around forever and seems to have no merit to it. Snopes addesses it as false:

    http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.as p

    So unless you can show me some proof to the contrary, I'm going to to say it's just so much BS.

    There's been con artists that have claimed to have miracle devices. However there's always some common threads:

    1) They do something that seems to be impossible.
    2) They'll never let anyone mess with and test their devices.
    3) There's always some string of "unfortunate problems" that keep it form coming to market.

    Also please remember: Patents last only 20 years, and by definition they are public. So if an oil company bought a patent for a super efficent car, they could sit on it for only 20 years, and everyone who wanted to know how it worked would, since the patent is public record. It's not like they could cover it up.

    So, please, provide a link to the 100mpg patent if you think it's real.

    1. Re:Dear consparicy guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The patents are 1,938,497, 1,997,497, and 2,026,798. I have to go now, someone is knocking at my door..

    2. Re:Dear consparicy guy by Inda · · Score: 1

      Who cares if they have a 100mpg patent for a carburetor?

      1. No one in there right mind would use a carburetor these days.

      2. There are already superminis with diesel engines that do 100mpg (85mpg with petrol). The Citroen C1 springs to mind.

      End of pointless argument.

      --
      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
    3. Re:Dear consparicy guy by infosec_spaz · · Score: 1

      I have a friend who's Father created a fuel injection system which got around 75mpg. When he attempted to file for a patent, he was told he could not, and within 3 months of his attempted filing, and hiring a lawyer, for some strange reason, the IRS closed his machine shop, and branded him a "Bad Guy" After he ran out of money, and needed to drop the law suite, he suddenly was released by the IRS, and was a "Good Guy" again....This is not my imagination running wild, I was there, and seen this transpire over a period of about 4 years. Things like this happen all the time, and NO, I am not a conspiracy theorist.

      --
      ----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
    4. Re:Dear consparicy guy by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      If things like this 'happen all the time' then the free press in the USA would have a field day exposing it with glee.

      I have an idea, let's have the collection of smart and curious folks that read Slashdot act as a peer review community for this invention. Please post your friend's patent application here and we'll review the design on its merits.

    5. Re:Dear consparicy guy by infosec_spaz · · Score: 1

      You know....If I had it, I would gladly do it. Just to watch your smug ass shiver with stupid!!!

      --
      ----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
    6. Re:Dear consparicy guy by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      What's stopping you from getting it?

    7. Re:Dear consparicy guy by sonofagunn · · Score: 1

      Plus, if there were such a miracle device, some person who knows about it would have too much to gain by selling it to a car company to keep it secret. Whoever patented this and started selling these cars could become way richer than any oil executive.

    8. Re:Dear consparicy guy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't think so. the press love to report how our economy is going downhill, and it's all the right's fault too. why would they like to shed light on some good news?

    9. Re:Dear consparicy guy by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      Who cares if they have a 100mpg patent for a carburetor?

      1. No one in there right mind would use a carburetor these days.


      If it was true(it's not), people would be perfectly willing to have a caburetor if it tripled their gas milage. That's part of the reason for transitioning to fuel injection. It enabled better gas milage.

      2. There are already superminis with diesel engines that do 100mpg (85mpg with petrol). The Citroen C1 springs to mind.

      This is part of my thinking. A 100mpg carb? Hooked up to what? Cars vary from two seat minis to oldsmobile style landyachts. A more beneficial claim would be something like 3x the gas milage. Besides, it's easy to figure out the theoretical maximum efficiency of gasoline engines, and no carb is going to triple gas milage. I'd hold out more hope for something like a steam engine that gathers some more power out of the waste heat heading out the tailpipe.

      I mean, the six stroke engine I read about holds more promise. The idea there is that after the power cycle you inject some water, which flashes to steam, giving you another power stroke.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  64. Obligatory by Creidiki · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...

    1. Re:Obligatory by Phishcast · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Ugh...Enough with the Soviet Russian Beowulf Portman grits cluster already.

  65. Even better article. (With pictures! ;-) by LexMan · · Score: 1
    Some quotes from this article:

    "...a device the size of a small suitcase could produce enough biodiesel to power several farms..."
    "...biodiesel could be produced between 10 and 100 times faster..."
    "...coating the microchannels with a non-toxic metallic catalyst...would eliminate the need for the chemical catalyst..."

  66. It is not a law of the universe by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    but it is a law of any company that wants to make a profit. Whatever reason Honda chose to ignore this patent, it was not in order to protect some other weaker technology. See my numerical explanation above. It works no matter what numbers, plausible or otherwise, that you throw at it, and frankly, isn't even close.

  67. Pogue Patent #'s by Thai+++I · · Score: 2, Interesting
    http://www.rexresearch.com/pogue/1pogue.htm has three patent listings (#1,750,354 #1,997,497 #2,026,798), and some info about the much-debated carburetors.

    http://befreetech.com/suppressed_inventions.htm has more listings, including Canadian patents (Charles N. Pogue was Canadian).

    Pogue seems to have been bought out by the oil companies, and he did well for himself. Other inventors and tweakers have seen their offices/labs trashed and I have heard of disappearances and foul-play. Of course, you cannot believe everything you read, but considering what is at stake for the major movers-and-shakers, I wouldn't put it past them to do whatever it takes to keep what they have.

    1. Re:Pogue Patent #'s by somersault · · Score: 1

      funny that the first story you linked to was posted on March 31st, made me wonder if they were going for an April Fool's joke on an automatic submission form, but got their timing wrong :p Anyway, very interesting.. honestly though, you'd think some car companies would be developing technology like that if it were feasible.. especially since the patents will be null/whatever by now?

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re:Pogue Patent #'s by rew · · Score: 1

      FYI, I checked one of the patents and it is the same as claimed on the web page.

      The date is also correct: 1935. This means that the patent expired in or before 1955, and everybody is now free to use it.

    3. Re:Pogue Patent #'s by cryfreedomlove · · Score: 1

      Oh yes, the man is keeping us down. Or, the 200 MPG story is bullshit. Those patents would be in the public domain by now. Why don't you make one of the carbuerators and let your slashdot friends peer review it?

      Snopes as an interesting story about this. 5 minutes with Google is a good way to debunk urban legends. You should try it some time.

    4. Re:Pogue Patent #'s by Dark+Coder · · Score: 1

      Thank you very much, but it wasn't my intention to troll specifically on the oil industry and the 100 mpg carburetor, but goes to show that sitting on patent is a viable business decision.

      The U.S. Patent database has numerous entries for enhancements of fuel mixtures.

      Too many to list there but the earliest and the latest of patents shows that fuel-mixture enhancement patent being sat on is still alive and well.

      I do recall several Ph.D. economic papers from years back that sitting on patent HAS BEEN and CONTINUES to be an economic cost-effective business practice.

  68. I wouldn't say that by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Rather, I would say that Econ 101, even at its worst, is simply an approximation based on axiomatic assumptions that only hold to varying degrees in the real world. However, under most circumstances, the Econ 101 answer models reality accurately enough and provides tremendous insight into human behavior and their response to markets and political decisions, especially when considered in large numbers. Much like Einstein's laws replacing those of Newton, it is not a matter that Newton was wrong, per se, but rather that his model failed under unusual circumstances.

    However, virtually no human quirk that interupts the idealized Econ 101 model is going to cause any corporation to turn down a 10:1 trade.

    1. Re:I wouldn't say that by Dis*abstraction · · Score: 1

      This is true, but don't overestimate the predictive power of economics. Companies, like individuals, act against their own rational self-interest all the time. Nations do it too. The stuff you learn in Econ 101 wouldn't predict Japan provoking the U.S. in 1942--and any economic theory that would, is going to have a strong bent towards the anthropological and behavioral sciences, where all the equations in the world won't help you anymore.

      Large groups of people behave just as rationally or irrationally as any one of us individually. I can think of a dozen reasonable-sounding justifications off the top of my head for Exxon to suppress innovation in alternative fuels... though I agree it isn't likely; stupid companies do exist, but they tend not to survive.

  69. Lipodiesel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use human fat. Works for Fight Club. It'll work here too.

  70. unresolved technical concerns (FORD on biodiesel) by kmavro · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are still some unresolved technical concerns with the use of biodiesel at concentration greater than 5%. Some of the concerns are:
            Requires special care at low temperatures to avoid excessive rise in viscosity and loss of fluidity
            Storage is a problem due to higher then normal risk of microbial contamination due to water absorption as well as a higher rate of oxidation stability which creates insoluble gums and sediment deposits
            Being hygroscopic, the fuel tends to have increased water content, which increases the risk of corrosion
            Biodiesel tends to cause higher engine deposit formations
            The methyl esters in biodiesel fuel may attack the seals and composite materials used in vehicle fuel systems
            It may attack certain metals such as zinc, copper based alloys, cast iron, tin, lead, cobalt, and manganese
            It is an effective solvent, and can act as a paint stripper, whilst it will tend to loosen deposits in the bottom of fuel tanks of vehicles previously run on mineral diesel

    https://www.fleet.ford.com/showroom/environmental_ vehicles/BiodieselTechnology.asp

  71. I don't know much about chemestry, but... by Tempest451 · · Score: 1

    It seems a lot of /.ers do. So this beggers the question. Why hasn't someone here come up with a better idea? Could it be that a lot of folks "knowledge" comes from their "Google-Fu"?

    1. Re:I don't know much about chemestry, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. Ability to bullshit != actually knowing the stuff.

    2. Re:I don't know much about chemestry, but... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      But it can substitute in the short term! ;-)

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  72. Actually, Japan was quite rational by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    as we were going to choke off their oil supply, and Germany was looking like a pretty good bet at the moment. But that is a side point. We are talking about economics, not politics.

    As I pointed out, this trade is not even close. It is a 10-fold winner (ultimately, this comes from the fact that I set the margin at a realistic 10%). No bean-counter, let alone a dozen of them, is going to miss this due to one of the many well-documented quirks of human behavior. Especially because I would suspect all of the bean-counters took Econ 101 and unlearned this particular myth anyway. Any new technology discovered by a company is scrutinized repeatedly for any possible way to squeeze a penny out of it. Any company that did not do this would be out of business, not making record-setting profits.

    I would love to hear your reasoning for Exxon quashing an innovation that results in a product that replaces one of their current products at a better combination of price and performance. As I showed above, if the new innovation is really better than the status quo, THEY CAN MAKE MORE MONEY FROM IT.

  73. Re:unresolved technical concerns (FORD on biodiese by jnelson4765 · · Score: 2, Informative

    A lot of these problems can be solved using Teflon, Inconel, ceramic, and stainless for the fuel systems. You can also coat the interior passages of new engines to prevent a lot of that corrosion.

    High water content in biodiesel will, unfortunately, be a problem for the forseeable future. What it means, though, is that there will probably be the need for some kind of additive - viscosity index improvers, antifungals, and whatnot that are already added to regular diesel.

    --
    Why can't I mod "-1 Idiot"?
  74. people,think about lost jobs by LDSearch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I also think that oil companies will most probably just buy this patent (offer him an offer he cant refuse :). Big companies just care about profit. But look at it the othwer way - what if this invention would be success and not bought by some oil company - imagine how many jobs will be lost by declining profits of oil companies.Thousands of jobs will be cut, entire economies slidding etc. The oil business is such a big machine that if it falls then it will be probalby bigger disaster than them "buying out" the inventor. Sad but true.

    1. Re:people,think about lost jobs by toganet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      According to the US Economic Census, the Oil industry employs about 95,000 people inside the US. The US has lost 2.6 Million manufacturing jobs since 2001.

      Gas stations, etc., would still need to exist -- they would just sell a different fuel.

    2. Re:people,think about lost jobs by LDSearch · · Score: 1

      yes, but if "anyone" could buy this small reactor (farmers etc) they would not need to go to gas stations. If the producing cost and time is minimized then more people will be able to afford this. There are a lot of jobs that can be lost indirectly too. Oil companies have worldwide emloyes,not only in US. Also this could spell disaster for oil rich countries in middle east. (Which doesnt bother me BTW - they have too much power with oil anywaz )

    3. Re:people,think about lost jobs by Moridin42 · · Score: 1

      Of course the fact that they would be buying the reactors means that jobs lost to oil companies could be partially replaced by jobs manufacturing the reactors. Or in supplying the materials to build the reactors, if the process was that simple.

      And presumably the alcohol involved isn't going to just appear magically. Also presumably current levels of production of that alcohol aren't high enough to sustain biodisel production of sufficient magnitude to seriously impact the oil industry. So you'd have some more jobs there.

      Annnnd you'd have all this glycerin being produced in a non-centralized fashion. So you'd have to move that (+jobs in the transport sector) to industries that consume the glycerin. And those industries may grow or shrink.

      I gather you can make plastics from it, but I have no idea how glycerin would affect that industry. The industry could grow if the process is slightly more labor intensive, requiring more employees than they currently have, with the costs offset because of the cheaper glycerin replacing the petroleum.

      --
      I don't expect morality, equality, consistency, or justice from the law. I expect only legality.
    4. Re:people,think about lost jobs by SoulRider · · Score: 1

      Think of how many new jobs will be created by introducing a popular new tech to the market. Heck think of the entire industries that would be created.

    5. Re:people,think about lost jobs by Alioth · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't cause anything of the sort. Oil companies (actually, note how many oil companies have stopped calling themselves 'oil companies', but 'energy companies' instead) will just start making biodiesel instead. Nothing is tying them to mineral oil. Once it is economically feasable to make biofuels for less expense than oil, energy firms will start doing it to remain competitive. It's inevitable. If they buy the patent, they will be buying it to make use of the patent.

  75. a quick addition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a quick little point about companies being 'greedy' or 'evil';

    A company is legally bound to make as much profit for it's shareholders as possible. That is their legal 'raison d'etre', they exist for no other reason. They are therefore, by definition, amoral, so yes, all companies are mandated to be greedy. The good/evil debate is all about what they do to generate revenue and marketing spin.

    Put it this way, if you had a lot of Exxon shares, you'd be singing their praises for a job well done when you got your dividend!

    1. Re:a quick addition by modmans2ndcoming · · Score: 1

      except that they have to do it within the laws. No Racketeering, not ripping off customers, no oligarchical actions, no abusive monopolies... etc.

  76. It does exist! Honest! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had one on the moped I owned 20 years ago! ;)

    God bless Mikuni!

  77. Wrong analogy by sunbeam60 · · Score: 1
    You're not considering the cost of entry. You can develop software using a cheap personal computer, single handedly, with free software. Doing research requires:
    • Large machines to ensure humidity/temperature is kept and fluids are continually stirred
    • Physical materials (beakers, pressurized chambers to avoid a Level 4 threat escaping the labs, pressure suits, ventilators)
    • Samples (which may have a great cost to create and ship since few labs worldwide can do them)
    • Expensive training (there is no Visual Basic Biology edition, so you need years of training to understand the concepts)
    • Space (greenhouses, showers etc.)
    • Security clearances (if you work with dangerous materials, which most labs do in some form)
    • Waste disposal systems (you don't just pour a level 2 agent down the drain)
    • Since many of the above things can only be built cost effectively on a site, a support system (gardeners, cafeterias, toilets, cleaners, vending machines etc.)
    Many of those things come a great cost. A PC can be had for €500.
  78. Just one catch... by danratherfoe · · Score: 1

    ... Mr. Jovanovic's reactor requires that a pellet of Ununpentium be fired into gaseous hydrogen contained in a vaccum.

  79. This is an old joke with roots in reality by Flying+pig · · Score: 1

    Years ago at the U of Cambridge there was a woman researcher (I'm sorry, I have forgotten her name) who was working on improved strains of rape. She took great delight, when visiting dignitaries asked her what she was working on, in just replyng "Rape".

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  80. That's already being done by brokeninside · · Score: 1

    It's becoming more and more common to set up biodiesel plants next to meat rendering facilities.

    The last article I read about the process in Discover stated that the current cost to buy the animal wasted and turn it to biodiesel was about $100 per barrel. With oil hitting $70 per barrel, we're a good way towards making this technology economically viable.

  81. Re:I'm waiting by NormalVisual · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The devices do exist, but often aren't practical for everyday use. Many years ago, my dad built a vapor carburetor (basically an industrial strength fuel preheater) and installed it on his 1979 GMC Suburban, with the plumbing necessary to be able to switch it in and out of the fuel system. When in use and working well, the truck got around 40-45 mpg (I've seen it myself), but it was totally useless for anything except extended highway driving as it didn't deal with varying fuel demand very well and also took a bit of time to heat up enough to work. He eventually removed it as it mostly got in the way whenever he needed to do anything under the hood.

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  82. What Goran Jovanovic writes in his research site by tuomas_kaikkonen · · Score: 1

    According to Goran Jovanovic, it seems like production of Bio Diesel in more safe manner than now is just a minor side path of the main area of research. The main area seems to be development of devices that "monitor the environment for potentian human pathogens or toxins."

    Or does someone find better articles from the Web written by him or his team mates about building a new safer Biodiesel reactors?

  83. Dumb argument by porkThreeWays · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, biodiesel (diesel in general) is more efficient than current gasoline engines. It would behoove the world to have diesel engines.

    Second doesn't need to be repeated as other posts have explained it.

    Third, do you realize how many tens of thousands of pounds (maybe hundreds of thousands???) of food the US government buys from farmers and destroys each year to control food prices? The issue of the starving world isn't food. It's getting them the food. And much blood has been spilled trying to do it (remember Somalia?).

    Reliance on bio-diesel would possibly be one of the best possible outcomes in the oil war we could have. Almost anyone can produce vegtables. Oil is a fossil fuel that takes millions of years to produce. There are only a few places with fossil fuels. If there were a reliance upon biodiesel, we'd see entire farms just for the purpose of producing biodiesel vegtables. The wealth would be back in the hands of farmers rather than oil tycoons. If for nothing else, no more blood would be spilled over oil.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:Dumb argument by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
      Third, do you realize how many tens of thousands of pounds (maybe hundreds of thousands???) of food the US government buys from farmers and destroys each year to control food prices? The issue of the starving world isn't food. It's getting them the food. And much blood has been spilled trying to do it (remember Somalia?).
      The agricultural subsidies are nothing but pork-barrel politics that enable family farms to survive in order to get their votes. And everyone is guilty of it, to the detriment of the third-world who cannot sell it's produce (but at least, energy is not wasted to transport it, though).

      As of Somalia, well, I was just talking the other day with my neighbour who is from Somalia, and the reason the US tried to go there was simply to get a foothold in the region, not because it was giving a flying fuck about the starving kids there.

      Reliance on bio-diesel would possibly be one of the best possible outcomes in the oil war we could have. Almost anyone can produce vegtables. Oil is a fossil fuel that takes millions of years to produce. There are only a few places with fossil fuels. If there were a reliance upon biodiesel, we'd see entire farms just for the purpose of producing biodiesel vegtables. The wealth would be back in the hands of farmers rather than oil tycoons. If for nothing else, no more blood would be spilled over oil.
      Oil was produced by dead biomass accmumulated over several million years; it's like hoarding money for a few years and then spending it all in two minutes.

      In order to get the same energy output for a year from plants than you get from oil, it will need several hundred Earths to be cultivated.

    2. Re:Dumb argument by MtViewGuy · · Score: 1

      Actually, biodiesel directly from vegetable matter is not the most efficient way to produce it. Most scientists estimate you can get at most 90 gallons per acre of farmland growing plants designed to be processed to biodiesel fuel.

      The vastly superior solution is growing oil-laden algae in vertical tanks--an acre of them could yield 15,000 gallons of biodiesel fuel from one harvest operation, and given that oil-laden algae grows extremely fast, we could harvest the algae maybe 15-20 times per year! Put a 200-acre farm of algae tanks fed by the exhaust of a coal-fired powerplant and just that production facility alone could provide many millions of gallons of biodiesel fuel in one year. Put a 200-acre farm of algae tanks next to every large-scale coal or natural-gas fired powerplant and we could make enough biodiesel fuel for every tractor-trailer and diesel-electric railroad locomotive in the USA, plus a large amount of heating oil, too. This could substantially expand the amount of overall motor fuels available from petroleum sources since we can cut out most of the crude oil needed to be refined into diesel fuel and heating oil.

    3. Re:Dumb argument by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Oil was produced by dead biomass accmumulated over several million years; it's like hoarding money for a few years and then spending it all in two minutes.

      In order to get the same energy output for a year from plants than you get from oil, it will need several hundred Earths to be cultivated.


      Numbers, please.

      No, really. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but its nice to know the facts anyway (perhaps moreso as I don't take sides). The production of oil seems to be terribly inefficient, as are most natural processes (how long does it take to produce a pound of diamonds by the earth, on average, vs in an industrial facility?)

      Most farming operations are fairly energy intensive. Take ethonol as an example - it's is a lousy fuel. Expensive to produce (both in dollars and energy), and has horrible efficiency when compared to gasoline. E85 vehicles typically see a 30-35% reduction in mileage per gallon when running on E85, according to the EPA (no I don't have the link handy, but theres a PDF showing all the alt-fuel vehicles. A Ford pickup that gets 14/18 on gas gets 10/14 on E85).

      So, is biodeisel really that inefficient per acre planted? Could we use corn? Would this mean Americans might get Coke with real sugar once again? The world wants to know!

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    4. Re:Dumb argument by malex23 · · Score: 1
      The agricultural subsidies are nothing but pork-barrel politics that enable family farms to survive in order to get their votes. And everyone is guilty of it, to the detriment of the third-world who cannot sell it's produce (but at least, energy is not wasted to transport it, though).


      There. You just defeated your own argument. Rather than depleting the available food stocks, converting some of the world's agricultural operations to efficent bio-diesel crops can only be good for farmers in both North America and developing nations. And since the device described in the article is suitable for private use, farmers can produce their own fuel from waste and byproducts. Plus there the creation of new markets for agriculture where food crops were not produceable, like the algae tanks described elsewhere.


      Unless you were expecting the internal combustion engine to be phased out in the next year or two, there really is no downside to this.

    5. Re:Dumb argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can get Coke with sugar in it in the US. Just go looking for the "Kosher for passover" non-diet Coke.

      (Corn is one of the grains that is labeled kitinyot, and as such is forbidden as food during passover...)

    6. Re:Dumb argument by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 1

      In order to get the same energy output for a year from plants than you get from oil, it will need several hundred Earths to be cultivated.

      Numbers, please.


      The total world consumption of crude oil in 1996 was 71.7 million barrels per day.
      1 barrel = 42 gallons ~= 159 liters.
      With good conditions, Algae produces 50 grams of oil per square meter.
      With more typical conditions, 5 grams per m^2 per day.
      Avocado (typical) 0.6 grams.
      Rapeseed (typical) 0.27 grams.
      Hemp (typical) 0.08 grams.
      Corn (typical) 0.04 grams.

      Rapeseed is the usual choice for traditional farming methods because it grows well in such a wide variety of climates.
      (Canola is a "human safe" strain of Rapeseed.)

      Best estimates I've seen claim oil can be grown for $50 a barrel which sounds pretty good until you realize that oil can be pumped out of the ground for under $10.

      -- Should you believe authority without question?
  84. That simple model ignores many things by fireboy1919 · · Score: 1

    People aren't going to pay $29K for a tiny car. What they would do then is scream extortion and monopoly, and other such things until the car left the market or got cheaper. People play the lottery and generate deficits. We don't make wise decisions. Cheap now and expensive later will always extremely outsell expensive now and extremely cheap later.

    They would see it as the oil company (who just recently began to sell cars) is doing the same thing in cars that they do in oil: try to extort every penny that they can. And they'd be right.

    Further, there are a lot of parts in a car besides an engine. The oil company would have to go through an extremely extensive R&D to develop everything else, and they're already decades behind. They'd most likely end up with something that was technologically inferior in every way except one to current cars. The only way that they could ensure their dominance is if they just sold engines...which wouldn't give them nearly the profit you espouse, and probably wouldn't be enough to be worth it.

    Finally, the industry of selling cars is a lot more risky than that of selling oil. You know people are going to need oil. They all believe they have to drive/make plastic/etc. And you know they're going to buy it from you, because you're chummy with all your "competitors" and you've got your territory worked out. You don't know that people are going to need to buy a car from you even if you make the most advanced vehicle ever. They could decide that the flashy new Car X is the one for them because it has a flamingo hood ornament.

    So because of risk, risks of development, public perception, and the obvious one I didn't mention - the loss of oil sales - oil companies would never venture into the car industry, and it will continue to be in their best interest for gas-guzzlers to be produced, and for research into lower oil dependance to be supressed.

    --
    Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    1. Re:That simple model ignores many things by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

      People aren't going to pay $29K for a tiny car. What they would do then is scream extortion and monopoly, and other such things until the car left the market or got cheaper. People play the lottery and generate deficits. We don't make wise decisions. Cheap now and expensive later will always extremely outsell expensive now and extremely cheap later.

      I agree that people in general overly discount the future. However, this effect might change the $29000 to $28000 at most, nowhere near enough to offset the $10000 difference between the two choices. In any case, in this particular instance, I am not sure if discounting would actually be that powerful. For example, many people are buying Prius-style hybrids even though discounted for the future, it is a LOSING proposition to do so. Clearly, there are a number of people in this market who UNDER-discount the future.

      Further, there are a lot of parts in a car besides an engine. The oil company would have to go through an extremely extensive R&D to develop everything else, and they're already decades behind. They'd most likely end up with something that was technologically inferior in every way except one to current cars. The only way that they could ensure their dominance is if they just sold engines...which wouldn't give them nearly the profit you espouse, and probably wouldn't be enough to be worth it.

      In practice, they would simply license their technology to whatever car company/ies licked their balls. They would be able to extract virtually all of the $11000/car value.

      Finally, the industry of selling cars is a lot more risky than that of selling oil. You know people are going to need oil.

      Actually, I think most people would give up oil before they gave up cars. Alternative fuels may be pricey, but alternative transporation is simply non-existent in many places.

      And you know they're going to buy it from you, because you're chummy with all your "competitors" and you've got your territory worked out.

      Both of these markets are highly competitive, and to whatever extent they are not, I do not see why one would be worse than the other.

      So because of risk, risks of development, public perception, and the obvious one I didn't mention - the loss of oil sales - oil companies would never venture into the car industry, and it will continue to be in their best interest for gas-guzzlers to be produced, and for research into lower oil dependance to be supressed.

      As I pointed out, the loss of oil sales is trivial. If an oil company invents a doowhacky that saves you a gallon of gas, they can charge you three bucks for it. Yes, they lose the sale of one gallon, but (this is important) they make much LESS than three bucks selling one gallon of gas! Abstracting this from the present debate to the general case, you will see that this is always true. The reason that my numbers came out to approximately a 10/1 ratio in my original example was precisely because I hypothesized a profit margin on gasoline of 10%. If I had chosen 20% or 5% (the later being more realistic), the ratios would have been about 5/1 and 20/1 respectively.

  85. Re:Didn't your Econ101 prof dispel this myth for y by Jerom · · Score: 1

    Economy 101 huh?

    Ever heard of a thing called "core business". Or "capital investment". Barriers to market entry? Tacid knowledge within companies? Reluctance to change and closed mindedness of managers and workforce.

    J.

  86. Magic solution is hemp by Maximum+Prophet · · Score: 3, Informative

    There is a magic solution, it's called hemp. Hemp transforms solar energy into biomass more efficiently than just about any other plant, and can be processed into fibre, oil and feedstock. Hemp also grows about anywhere. If the US and Canada planted just the excess farmland and some of the land that can't currently be farmed with hemp, we could solve our energy problems.

    --
    All ideas^H^H^H^H^Hprocesses in this post are Patent Pending. (as well as the process of patenting all postings)
    1. Re:Magic solution is hemp by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1
      There is a magic solution, it's called hemp. Hemp transforms solar energy into biomass more efficiently than just about any other plant, and can be processed into fibre, oil and feedstock. Hemp also grows about anywhere. If the US and Canada planted just the excess farmland and some of the land that can't currently be farmed with hemp, we could solve our energy problems.
      Potheads to the rescue!!! :)

      You must be smoking real good shit... Who's your pusher???

  87. Re:We're saved! by sita · · Score: 1

    SO call me a paranoid nut, but I am convinved that thousands of cancers per year that are being blamed on second hand smoke or UV exposure are really due to spark plug radiation.

    No, no, no. It is from watching tv. The electrons from the cathod ray tube are absorbed in the screen emitting hard gamma. If you spent time sitting in front of a CRT computer screen it is a lot worse, of course, since you get sit a lot closer and you typically spend eight hours a day in front of the screen.

  88. Now explain this to me by corvenus · · Score: 1

    If the car business is so much more profitable than oil, how is it that a majority of the richest people on the planet are oil tycoon? Where are the rich automotive guys?

    As someone else pointed out, the biggest profit ever was registered by Exxon. Here are some other profits numbers for 2005 for comparison:
    GM: Loss of $10bn
    Chevron: $14bn
    Ford: $2bn.

    To make calculations for these 2 industries like they both make 10% in profits is ridiculous.

  89. Re:We're saved! by nblender · · Score: 1
    They are only assisted by 'glow plugs' in order to heat the intake air enough to start compression-ignition. Glow plugs are used primarily (only?) on indirect-injection diesels in which there is a small pre-chamber in the top of the cylinder. The injector blows fuel into that little chamber where coincidentally the glow-plug also lives. After ignition, the flame front leaves the chamber to push the piston down. Once the engine is started, the glow plugs typically remain on for a short time in order to facilitate further ignition until the engine is warm enough to burn the vast majority of fuel without the use of the glow plug. This is why old-style diesels smoke after startup on a cold day. Direct injection diesels don't benefit from the use of glow plugs and as such use a glow-screen plumbed inline of the intake air. If some of your glow plugs are dead, you can still generally start the engine but it gets more difficult as it gets colder. If your glow system is completely non-functional, and you're stuck, and freezing, a shot of ether into the intake can be used to cause very expensive damage to your engine with the occasional side-effect that no damage will be caused but the engine will start without glow plugs.

    My 1993 Toyota Diesel truck is indirect injection, and can get 27mpg (imperial, not colonial) on straight canola oil without modification. Pretty good for a 6000lb un-aerodynamic SUV. If only americans weren't so afraid of diesels....

  90. Re:We're saved! by necro81 · · Score: 1

    Aluminum is NOT transparent to X-Rays. In truth, nothing is completely transparent to X-Rays except for a vaccum. X-Ray transparency is largely a function of material density and the thickness of the object itself. The transparency of various materials used in X-Ray equipment is often compared relative to an aluminum standard, but that aluminum standard is a 1mm-thick plate. If you were to take a chest X-Ray with a 1mm aluminum plate in the beam path, it would show up nearly opaque compared to human tissues. In an automobile there is a whole lot more than 1 mm of aluminum between the cylinders and you. Your notion that most engine blocks are made of aluminum these days is also flawed - it is increasingly prevalent, but hasn't replaced steel.

    Unless you have more than a vaguely-worded theory, such as hard evidence or calculations based on scientific principals, please keep you paranoia to yourself. Out of curiosity, do you own an automobile?

    Finally, since this is a discussion about biodiesel, I'll remind you that, in a diesel engine, there are no sparkplugs. The combustion in a diesel engine happens spontaneously due to the compression in the cylinder.

  91. Yes it does.... But I keep the windows closed! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I keep the windows closed so no one can tell that I fart alot in my car!

  92. Patent Information by infosec_spaz · · Score: 1

    For those doubters....Here is a link to a patent for a "Fuel Economy system for an Internal combustion Engine" WHACK!!!! Take THAT!!! http://byronw.www1host.com/files/4177779%20Ogle.pd f

    --
    ----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
    1. Re:Patent Information by exegesis+clique · · Score: 1

      Neat... It was patented in 1979. It's in the public domain. Build it and you'll be one of the most wealthy people alive. Go on... try it...

    2. Re:Patent Information by infosec_spaz · · Score: 1

      Yeahhhh....I think I will take the Zero on that assignment.

      --
      ----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
  93. Using Biodiesel can't be too difficult by k2r · · Score: 1

    Since all Diesel-Cars made by Volkswagen from 1996 to 2003 have been capable of using Biodiesel and even the Motors produced after 2003 are available Biodiesel-ready on request it seems as if there was no really difficult problems in using pure Biodiesel.

    k2r

  94. Looks like your prof was lacking by Rhys · · Score: 1

    Sure, they can use this to make money. But will it make them more money than the opportunity cost of using it? (lost sales of petrolium-based fuels to biodiesel/more efficient vehicles)

    --
    Slashdot Patriotism: We Support our Dupes!
    1. Re:Looks like your prof was lacking by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

      Yes, it will. If they can build something that saves you a gallon of gas, they can charge you just under three bucks for it. Yes, they make a few cents for each gallon sold, but they would much rather be making three dollars.

      As long as the customer is better served with the gasoline-saving device, the oil company can extract more profit selling it than it can selling gasoline. This is generally true in any market - one can always make more money by selling the product that the customer desires most.

  95. Government Mandate On New Credit Cards by Dareth · · Score: 0

    The government should mandate that all new credit cards be made on these Biodesiel pumps...

    Most people have a "BIG STACK" of them anyway.

    Me, well no I use my debit card. I have $0 in credit card debt. Oh and my credit rating is damn good!

    --

    I only look human.
    My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
  96. wake me by capn_buzzcut · · Score: 1

    when they have a car that runs on uranium

    --
    "And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
  97. Bio diesel from Algae has this beat by a long ways by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 4, Informative

    http://blog.myspace.com/ex_misltech

    Nothing compares to the output from Algae as far as bio oil goes .

                    * Soybean: 40 to 50 US gal/acre (40 to 50 m/km)
                    * Rapeseed: 110 to 145 US gal/acre (100 to 140 m/km)
                    * Mustard: 140 US gal/acre (130 m/km)
                    * Jatropha: 175 US gal/acre (160 m/km)
                    * Palm oil: 650 US gal/acre (610 m/km) [2]
                    * Algae: 10,000 to 20,000 US gal/acre (10,000 to 20,000 m/km)

    Ex-MislTech

    --
    google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
  98. Current room temperature is 291 Degrees Kelvin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I used to work in a University chemical store I spilt some sodium methoxide on the back of my hand and it took off the outer layer of my skin. I saved a small vial of this corrosive shit for a rainy day. Next party I had, some twat found it in my room and ( thinking it was some drug ) snorted a big line of it ! I found him in the bathroom with the end of the tap up one nostril.

    Very nasty stuff !

  99. small enough to fit in a laptop? by Danathar · · Score: 1

    Hey! Diesel powered laptop?!

    Hmmm...don't know if the person next to me on the plane would appreciate the puffs of black smoke comming from my rig (hey! Punmonster strikes!). Plus there is the greasy film that would get on the LCD.

    1. Re:small enough to fit in a laptop? by rubberbando · · Score: 1

      That would be great! Then you could blame that rotten egg smell on your laptop instead of that burrito you ate earlier. :-P

      --
      DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
  100. And this doesn't even touch on the main problems.. by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    PSA as a fuel will also increase the odds of coking up your injectors.

    The main part as to why PSA is rougher on an engine is that it's got glycerin bound to the oils (part and parcel
    of vegetable oils...) and unless your injectors are designed around this, the soot from the glycerin (Since it
    doesn't burn anywhere near as well as the other part of the oil...) may gum up your injectors.

    If you can convert it at the pump or similar, you'd be better off stripping that glycerin off- that way
    you can use it with less problems (All you'd need for B100 to rid yourself of most of the remaining problems
    is to use something like Power Service's DieselKleen which lowers the tendency of the fuel to gel at low
    temps- something that they do in lower quantities in the first place to the petro diesel anyhow for the
    same reasons...)

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  101. I call bullshit by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    The patent has expired, but we still don't have production level 100mpg cars. Of course, this technique might be used to get 100mpg on mopeds, but who want's to ride a moped on the 405?

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  102. Re:unresolved technical concerns (FORD on biodiese by dlapine · · Score: 2, Informative
    Biodiesel B20 (20% biodiesel/80% petroldiesel) already has 45 million road miles of testing with no side effects.

    ASTM already has standards for a 20% blend.

    Go to Biodiesel.org's Fact sheets and have look for yourself. If you were to use 100% biodiesel, some of your quoted concerns would need to be addressed. Not that big a deal- just need to replace pure rubber for fuel lines, check and replace fuel filters for diesels that have already been in service, and preheat/keep warm any diesel driven vehicles if it gets really cold outside.

    What's really spiffy is the possibility that small kits of these could be used right on the farm to make more self-sufficient farming possible for remote areas of the world. A tractor might run for 20 years, but bringing in diesel is a yearly event.

    --
    The Internet has no garbage collection
  103. How much juice? Probably NONE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With such tiny channels, and such viscous liquids, it's entirely possible it takes more energy to pump the stuff than can be released from the fuel.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of biodiesel. I guess that makes me a supercharger.

  104. Ah, but they're not tracking everything... by Svartalf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Explosives are merely combustables with their own in-built oxidizer so that they effectively have an unlimited
    source of oxidization (which could be any reactants, really, so long as it's a combustion type reaction...).

    1) You can make your own liquid oxygen- all you need is to machine the right gear and it doesn't red-flag as the resources to make the liquification machine are needed to make tools, cars, etc.

    2) Anything combustable that is LOX saturated will explode if ignited- it effectively has an unlimited amount of oxidizer at it's disposal to combust with.

    3) A carcoal briquette, such as out of a Kingsford bag will explode with about the force of a stick of dynamite if thoroughly soaked with LOX and ignited or hit with a primary detonator like a blasting squib. This is the basis of a lot of commercial mining explosives these days. Don't want to do a blast? Let the LOX out and it's no longer explosive.

    This is just ONE piece of chemistry that, you too, can play with without much notice. There's raftloads others.
    And before you get on to me about "revealing" this to the terrorists- it's common knowlege and they also know how
    to make comparable substances that don't need cryo containment to go with it. Contrary to popular belief to the
    otherwise, the leaders , while quite nuts themselves, aren't stupid. Many of them are very well
    educated- by the US educational system, even.

    (By the way, black powder rocketry's fun, but Zinc/Sulphur mix rocketry's even moreso and easier to get
    the stuff... :->

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  105. Win-win for oil importing countries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The great part of it is that many countries don't have any oil resources, however they have unused or not profitable lands available for agriculture.

    The problem with agriculture eg. in Europe is that technological advancement have improved efficiency so much that the market has to be regulated by production quotas.

    "Growing fuel" solves two problems for such countries: it is making them self-reliant on fuel, cutting down on substantial part of current import by using existing local resources, local labour in a profitable way.

    It's a win-win situation for any oil importing country with agricultural resources.

  106. VW already makes a 99mpg car... by MetaPhyzx · · Score: 1

    It can be done, has been done, but hasn't been sold here in the U.S. due to Diesel fuel regulations. I'm sure if VW were creative enough, they'd at least market a 75mpg version here in the states...

    --
    Blacker than my baby girl's stare. Black like the veil that the muslimina wear. Black like the planet that they fear...
  107. Re:people,think about CHANGING jobs - by erbmjw · · Score: 1

    The majority of the jobs would not be lost, but rather other jobs would be made available to support a different, expanding industry - these sort of events happen on a regular basis in times of change. Remember the news about the computer putting 1000's and 1,000,000's of people out of work ... because many of us now work in new industries because of those same computers.

  108. Re:We're saved! by johnny+cashed · · Score: 1

    It works fine for tractors, but you need one hell of a starter motor to crank to ignition from cold. That plus the size/weight of the battery to run the thing mean that it's not as feasible for cars.

    It may not be suitable for conventional cars, but what if you made a diesel hybrid car? They would have the large battery and if it were constructed like the Honda Insight, you could have a 20hp electric motor/generator as the starter.

  109. Re:unresolved technical concerns (FORD on biodiese by MagnusDredd · · Score: 1

    Biodiesel does have the tendency to make the seals on some engines expand. However on newer cars (except for Fords) this has been fixed.

    This is why I'm not going to be using a Powerstroke engine on a project vehicle I have. They are not suited to biodiesel or SVO.

    For some reason Chevy's Duramax, Dodge's Cummins, and the Volkwagon TDI engines do not have this problem.

  110. Re:I'm waiting by CrtxReavr · · Score: 1

    Yes there was! A car with just such a carburator was used to get all those people with rifles off that grassy knoll.

    --
    "So is the BSD licence even more 'free' (than GPLv2)? Yes. Unquestionably." --Linus Torvalds (TinyURL.com/2vugzl)
  111. Walmart is all you need by willCode4Beer.com · · Score: 1

    Walmart sells blackpowder at great prices, in every store I've been in, its right on the shelf, not locked up like the shotguns.
      In their swimming pool supplies you can find large quantities of sodium hypochlorite (cheap) and hydrochloric acid (usually labeled muriatic acid).
      On the cleaning supplies aisle, you can find sodium hydroxide.
      In the automotive section, you can find sulphic acid (bottle for the motorcycle batteries), and ether (starter fluid).
      Saltpeter can usually be found in the spice section, or in the luchmeat ;-)
    the list can go on and on.

    Walmart is "literally" the terrorist super-center.
    I don't understand your comment about these things being so hard to find. It seems they are harder to avoid.

    --
    ----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
  112. you are right, it would mean bigger faster cars by willCode4Beer.com · · Score: 1

    Just think, if a compact car could get 100mpg, then we could use the technology to build a Super Hummer that would get 15 instead of 5mpg.
    And of course people would buy it.
    The ol, my SUV is bigger than your SUV game would keep on playing out.

    --
    ----- If communism is a system where the government owns business, what do you call a system where business owns govern
  113. Pzzt wrong! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    In order to get the same energy output for a year from plants than you get from oil, it will need several hundred Earths to be cultivated.

    Sure, if they continue using Soybeans, yes this is correct. But when Algae kicks in, that won't be true any longer. From Wikipedia:

    More recent studies using a species of algae that has oil contents of as high as 50% have concluded that as little as 28,000 km or 0.3 % of the land area of the US could be utilized to produce enough biodiesel to replace all transportation fuel the country currently utilizes. Further encouragement comes from the fact that the land that could be most effective in growing the algae is desert land with high solar irradiation, but lower economic value for other uses and that the algae could utilize farm waste and excess CO2 from factories to help speed the growth of the algae.

  114. Re:Bio diesel from Algae has this beat by a long w by Taxman415a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Nice karma whoring. That's from your blog eh? I personally collated those statistics and added them to the Wikipedia biodiesel article with this diff. They were subsequently improved with additional unit conversions and I and maybe others added some additional ones later. And your units aren't even right, what's an m/km?. If you're going to take GFDL material, which I do agree you can use freely as long as you follow the license, at least get the fixes too.

  115. Visit the Original Web Site by fygment · · Score: 1
    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
  116. Re:And this doesn't even touch on the main problem by aembleton · · Score: 1

    Is PSA a fuel? I thought it was the company behind Peugeot and Citroen. Or were you talking about SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil)?

  117. FUD from FORD about biodiesel by Taxman415a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    My god, I was hoping you had made some of those errors copying it over, but there they are right on Ford's website. Sounds like Ford is just trying once again to explain why they are not helping to develop cleaner technology, but still want to say they are.
    *Requires special ... - Yes that's true biodiesel gels at higher temperatures
    *Storage is a problem due to higher then normal risk of microbial contamination due to water absorption as well as a higher rate of oxidation stability which creates insoluble gums and sediment deposits - Did they really just say higher rate of oxidative stability?? Biodiesel is more biodegradable, thus more degradable and doesn't store for as long. There's tradeoffs--less toxic if you spill it means it doesn't store as well.
    *Biodiesel tends to cause ... - There's not really any evidence of this as it contradicts the last point of biodiesel being a good solvent/detergent. It cleans engine parts. If there is evidence of this, I haven't seen it, and Ford certainly doesn't present any.
    *The methyl esters ... - People have already pointed out that everyone else just switched to seals and hoses that are more resistant to this type of thing. Marginal cost difference.
    *It is an effective solvent... - This is true, but the end of it is stupid sticking they're head in the sand. All you do it check your fuel filters more for a little while and once the crud is cleaned out you're better off.

    Engine's just need to be designed for biodiesel and this won't happen until the market matures more and there are greater economic incentives to do so.

  118. Re:Didn't your Econ101 prof dispel this myth by fbjon · · Score: 1

    This is true for the oil companies, they'd be stupid not to profit from superior tech. But what if they're not the only ones with a vested interest in oil? Someone could make sure that oil is more profitable for them for political reasons.

    --
    True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
  119. Clarification request on staggering numbers. by Valdrax · · Score: 1

    I was going to ask him, but if you're claiming to be the source, I guess I'll ask you instead:

    How are those number for algal biodiesel obtained? As we talking flat ponds or tower structures for exposing more water to sunlight? Is active pumping of CO2 into the system required, or is this taken from the air? Does the system require any fertilizers? How much water does this system require?

    (The last question is extremely important in light of possible global water shortages due to climate change in increased industrial and residential demand from cities in the next few decades.)

    --
    If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
    1. Re:Clarification request on staggering numbers. by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

      The source for the numbers is from Briggs paper, which draws heavily on the NREL research also cited in the article. It is listed as a reference and discussed in the article but not cited directly to that fact. When the NREL's research money dried up, it seems all research into algal biodiesel is by private enterprises, and is focused on commercializing it. The issues seem to be cost, how to keep the algal strains focused on those that produce the most oil. But GreenFuel technologies claims to have a working system and to have deployed it at MIT's cogen facility. There hasn't been much else out of them besides press releases that I've seen, so I'm assuming they haven't figured out how to make it cost effective. Proposed algae systems can work on either air CO2 or power plant emissions, and I don't know about water usage. Some claims have been that salt water can be used if the right strains are grown.

  120. Re:And this doesn't even touch on the main problem by xlv · · Score: 1
    Is PSA a fuel? I thought it was the company behind Peugeot and Citroen.


    That's right, in the context of this thread, PSA stands for "Peugeot Société Anonyme", or "anonymous company" Peugeot, i.e. the Peugeot Corporation and the PSA group owns the Peugeot and Citroën brands.

  121. Thanks by Flying+pig · · Score: 1

    ...anybody who trusts Wikipedia is asking for trouble. It's often like a vast collection of every urban myth known to man, with a geek slant. However, I still don't understand how the NaOH can be catalytic, at least on the definition I grew up with (something that pushes the reaction equilibrium in a particular direction but is not itself a reaction component). The O and H in the final NaOH are different atoms from the ones you started with (to the limits permitted by quantum mechanics, yada yada), unlike the platinum in catalytic converters, or the amino acids in enzymes. My chemistry teacher used to argue about whether the vanadium pentoxide in the SO2-SO3 process could properly be called a catalyst, and that's closer to that classical definition than the NaOH. Perhaps I'm being overly pedantic, but as industrial chemistry paid for my house and pension fund, perhaps I have a point.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  122. Re:Bio diesel from Algae has this beat by a long w by Ex-MislTech · · Score: 1

    If you read blog entry you see it links your article DIRECTLY.

    Sorry I got your panties in a wad, maybe you got mad
    before you bothered to read that I direct link your article .

    As for those stats you question, they are DIRECTLY CTRL+C, CTRL+V from
    the Wikipedia Article, drama not included(tm) .

    So if the "m/km" is off its just a carbon copy of your mistake .

    Ex-MislTech

    --
    google "32 trillion offshore needs IRS attention"
  123. Oblig. Simpsons Quote by Zerbs · · Score: 1

    Wait... there's a NEW Mexico???

    --
    "22 astronauts were born in Ohio. What is it about your state that makes people want to flee the Earth?" Stephen Colbert
  124. Not flawed at all by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Assuming it did cost more, we have one of two cases:

    1: It costs more, but less than $10100 more.

    2: It costs more than $10100 more.

    In the first case, the invention is a useful one, BigOil will still make more profit by selling the car than the extra oil, and the consumer will benefit.

    In the second case, the new technology costs more than it saves in fuel, in which case it is not a useful invention. BigOil will not make it, people will not want it, and no one should care.

  125. Uhh, are you 16? by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Or are you willfully ignorant of the repeated cycles of oil boom and bust? Oil was much less than $20/barrel not very long ago. Many people have lost their shirts in the oil busts, and in any case, it is a competitive market. If profits get too high for too long, new people enter and lower them. Thank God for the invisible hand.

  126. Linux=BioDiesel, Microsoft=Ethanol ??? by MountainLogic · · Score: 1

    Since Bill Gates just invested in ethanol does that mean all of slashdot is now for BioDiesel???? The truth be told, the energy return on alternate fuels is not yet as good as it needs to be.

  127. Re:We're saved! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a comment about the last point. I think I read several times here that diesel engines compress the air/fuel mix until it spontaneously combusts, and this is assisted by glow plugs. It's not really how they work. There is a wikipedia article which has a more accurate description of how diesel engines work http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine

  128. Re:I'm waiting..for the tool to shut up. by jonskerr · · Score: 1

    >I take it that the vast majority of Slashdotters are still in school living of student loans, mom and dads money, or both.
    An unfounded assumption you wish to be true. Any statistics you know of about the ages & incomes of slashdotters?

    >It's called capatilism you stupid idiots.
    No, it's called Capitalism. Your puerile arguments will hold slightly more water if you would just learn how to spell. But as an ignorant troll, how could you?

    >These yahoo's who bitch and moan about the price of gas as the same idiots who scream "Not in my back yard" when an oil company wants to build a new refinery or drill off shore for oil. Complete and utter tools.
    No, everyone bitches about the price of gas except the bicycle riding hippies your kind always bitch about. And no oil company wants to build refineries, they haven't in decades. It's part of their evil plan to keep prices high (by limiting supply, you know the concept?) and to maintain RECORD profits. I say we tax the fuckers into the stone age. It's our money after all, we might as well use it to pay off the national debt. Since half the taxes we pay just goes to pay the interest on the national debt, we'd just be moving our own money around and cutting the interest payments off.
    Too bad congress doesn't work for us any more.

    --
    O~ Him that studies revenge keeps his own wounds green. -- Francis Bacon
  129. Re:We're saved! by RockWolf · · Score: 1

    You're a paranoid nut.

    --
    February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
  130. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 1

    But as the saying goes, "Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're NOT all out to get you!"

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  131. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 1

    I rememebr a joke in the old National Lampoon- What's round and hairy and glows in the dark? Your b@lls when you sit too close to the color TV.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  132. Re:We're saved! by couch_warrior · · Score: 1

    Ahem - "Finally, since this is a discussion about biodiesel, I'll remind you that, in a diesel engine, there are no sparkplugs. The combustion in a diesel engine happens spontaneously due to the compression in the cylinder." THATS MY WHOLE POINT. I am *advocating* the use of biodiesel. Is everyone who reads this site incapable of following a logical argument??? Risk from spark plugs implies diesel is safer which in turn makes biodiesel more valuable. As for science - one chest Xray uses about 35Kv at 1amp (35KVA) to produce about 2 milirads of Xrays - about one of which penetrates the body, and the absorbtion of the rest forms the dark and light regions of the image. A spark plug fires at 35KV but about 2 miliamps (.002 amps) lets be generous and say that igniting the gas and air absorbs 3/4 the sparks energy. So the effective rediation from each firing of a spark plug would be .0005 x 2 milirads. That means each thousand firings of a spark plug produce a cummulative dose of about 1 milirad. With four spark plugs and an engine running at 3000 rpm on the highway, a typical engine will generate a raw 12 milirads of X-rays per minute. Now let us estimate that each mm of aluminum attentuates 90% of a given burst of X-rays. The Spark plug is located in the CYLINDER HEAD - which has walls about .8cm thick. So passing through the cylinder head would attentuate the Xrays to .00000001 of their original strength. SO you're going to get about 1.2 milirads of X-rays out every 10 ^7 minutes. Or something approximating a chest X-ray every 20 years of total driving time. Give or take a factor of two or three for variables like number of spark plugs. OK, OK so we're not all going to die. From this anyway. Crap.

    --
    "Sic Semper Path of Least Resistance"
  133. Yep, and with $44 billion in profits by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    last year Exxon could make just about anything it wants its "core business" as of tomorrow. There are few industries with significant barriers to entry. Neither the automobile or the oil business does, as plenty of companies have gotten in and out over the last few decades.

  134. You are thinking too short term by Ogemaniac · · Score: 1

    Typical margins for manufacturing are 5-8%. The lower the number, the stronger the my argument, actually.

    Now I am willing to bet if we compare Exxon's margins during the 80s bust vs the same period for GM, we would find the opposite trend as we do now.

  135. Re:We're saved! by RockWolf · · Score: 1

    True enough. *habitually checks over his shoulder, suspiciously watching the limping granny that just dropped her shopping*

    --
    February 9th, 2009 8:55pm: Slashdot becomes self-aware.
  136. Re:Bio diesel from Algae has this beat by a long w by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1
    (one of the links on your blog)
    http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html


    NREL's research showed that one quad (7.5 billion gallons) of biodiesel could be produced from 200,000 hectares of desert land (200,000 hectares is equivalent to 780 square miles, roughly 500,000 acres), if the remaining challenges are solved (as they will be, with several research groups and companies working towards it, including ours at UNH). In the previous section, we found that to replace all transportation fuels in the US, we would need 140.8 billion gallons of biodiesel, or roughly 19 quads (one quad is roughly 7.5 billion gallons of biodiesel). To produce that amount would require a land mass of almost 15,000 square miles. To put that in perspective, consider that the Sonora desert in the southwestern US comprises 120,000 square miles. Enough biodiesel to replace all petroleum transportation fuels could be grown in 15,000 square miles, or roughly 12.5 percent of the area of the Sonora desert (note for clarification - I am not advocating putting 15,000 square miles of algae ponds in the Sonora desert. This hypothetical example is used strictly for the purpose of showing the scale of land required). That 15,000 square miles works out to roughly 9.5 million acres - far less than the 450 million acres currently used for crop farming in the US, and the over 500 million acres used as grazing land for farm animals.


    This sort of thing has more than a hint of obsessive self sufficiency about it. But it does show that you could produce biodiesel without tying up all your agricultural land, which is pretty important. I think in practice you'd probably tune taxes/subsidies a bit to create a market, and allow market mechanisms to build the farms all over the planet, rather than requisitioning $300billion from Congress to basically build ponds in a desert.
    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  137. Re:Bio diesel from Algae has this beat by a long w by Taxman415a · · Score: 1

    That's kind of my point. You might as well link to where your numbers are coming from instead of your blog. Especially considering you did copy an error verbatim and it has been corrected on Wikipedia for quite some time now. I don't even think it existed for long at all in mistake form, and I wasn't the one the contributed the mistake.

  138. Biodiesel numbers are inflated... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The 10,000 gallons/acre number is based on pumping CO2 into the system. Basically it's the MIT system someone else referenced, which has to sit next to a coal power plant and has relatively high capital costs. That number is absolute crap as far as "renewable" biodiesel is concerned. And in the end you're still releasing the same amount of CO2 into the atmosphere. You might as well call it coal.

  139. Guys!!!!!! by BluedemonX · · Score: 1

    Butanol, people. Burns in a gasoline engine just fine, you can make it from cellulose. Has the same BTU/gln almost as gasoline. Doesn't corrode the lines. We can keep the same cars we have now, and emissions drop significantly when we burn it.

    --

    --- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix