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Boot Camp For Suckers?

DigitalDame2 writes "PC Magazine's Editor-in-Chief says the whole Mac/Windows dual-boot thing is really nothing to get excited about. He writes that Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X." From the article: "Once you've laid out a few kilobucks on your BC system and been frustrated a few times with Windows limitations, what are you going to do? Jobs's bet: You'll start spending more and more time in OS X, until you--too--become one of the pod people. It's sad to see so many of my compatriots being turned into lemmings. Perhaps they'll wake up and smell the Apple pie in the sky--and realize they've been taken for a ride. But I doubt it."

105 of 610 comments (clear)

  1. Message for Captain Obvious by MoxCamel · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X.

    Well...duh! Did anyone think Apple was doing it as a public service?

    Next up: Publishers put nice pictures on their book covers so you will buy them. Bastards!!

    Mox

    1. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by jcr · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did anyone think Apple was doing it as a public service?

      The main purposes of boot camp are: 1) keep people from destroying their Macs by trying to follow the directions they found on the web for hacking the boot sequence, and 2) allow Mac users to forego having an extra PC around to run that one windows-only app that they have to use for work.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    2. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by FooAtWFU · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X.
      Well...duh! Did anyone think Apple was doing it as a public service?
      Converting Windows users to OS X is a public service. Converting Windows users to anything is a public service.

      And, for the record, the only thing Apple makes that I own is the Mighty Mouse (it works surprisingly well with my IBM ThinkPad).

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    3. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by fm6 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      It's a pretty effective ploy. For my next machine, I'd been looking at a Shuttle, and didn't even consider a Mac — I am thoroughly not a Mac person. Then BootCamp appeared, and I can't help but notice that a Mac Mini is not that much more expensive than a Shuttle...

      I know one person who definitely bought a Mac because of Boot Camp. This is a colleague who works at home, and had good reason to prefer a Mac — mainly because tech support is an issue, and having a Mac allows her to turn to her Mac-centric kids and ex-husband. But she also had to be able to take Windows screenshots for some of our products, so she wasn't even considering buying a Mac until I mentioned Boot Camp to her.

      Still, I don't think Boot Camp is so much a ploy as a "Wouldn't that be kewl" hack.

    4. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Once&FutureRocketman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why do so many Mac users insist on this fantasy that Windows users really hate Windows and would switch to the Mac OS in a flash if only they had a chance to touch it's brushed chrome goodness?

      In fact, I am a long, long-time Windows user. Many would consider me a power user. And I hate Windows. I have sunk more hours than I even care to begin contemplating into making my Windows machine behave. As far as I'm concerned, Gates owes me several extra years of life, for the time I've wasted using his software which is so godawful and yet dominates the market.

      So, no, this isn't just a Mac user fantasy. It's a reality for many of us. Of course, maybe you have a point. Because I am now a Mac user. Thanks, Steve!

      --

      "Research is what I am doing when I don't know what I am doing." -- Wernher von Braun

    5. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by buysse · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Huh. I can't use the mighty mouse. It doesn't work for me. I'm a traditional unix user, who's seen the light of OS X (as long as X11.app and Darwinports are installed). I am used to three-button mice. Not two button with some pansy wheel, though those work as three button mice, but a three-button mouse. Because I am used to three-button mice, I leave three fingers on the top of the mouse at all times. Index on button 1, ring on button 2, and middle finger on button 3/4/5 (wheel). The not-so-Mighty mouse detects that my finger is touching button 1 (through heat) and every frickin' click is interpreted as button 1. Not usable for a real programmer.

      --
      -30-
    6. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Insightful
      One word: GAMES

      --This has nothing to do with the office environment, and everything to do with shoring up the gaming system on Macs. One OS for games, and one OS for everything else... you don't generally need to have both running at the same time.

    7. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by KillerDeathRobot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most Windows users actually like their OS and would not want to switch.

      Congratulations! You've just won the Made Up Fact of the Hour Award!

      There's no way whatsoever to prove that. You completely just made it up, probably from your own experience. Which is exactly what you're decrying (though the post you quoted doesn't really seem to have anything to do with that).

      --
      Thinkin' Lincoln - a web comic of presidential proportions
    8. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by paanta · · Score: 5, Funny

      Step 1: Write about how Mac users are lemmings and get it posted to Slashdot Step 2: ????? Step 3: Profit!

    9. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Flyboy+Connor · · Score: 2, Insightful
      However, I think most mundanes are indifferent to what operating system they use.

      Absolutely true. They do not care as long as it works right. And judging from the support "mundanes" ask from me to solve problems in their Windows setup, they seem to be of the opinion that Windows doesn't work right. Yes, they usually do not blame Windows. They just say "my computer doesn't work right anymore, please fix it for me." But give 'm a machine that runs both Windows and OSX, and soon they'll realise that one part of their machine is breaking down, while the other part runs fine. Guess what, as soon as they cannot really work in Windows anymore (which will happen soon enough without proper maintenance), they will just switch to working with OSX. And they will not phone me anymore, because that is way more difficult than just turning on the part that works and does everything they need.

    10. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by KDan · · Score: 5, Funny

      The fact that Macs can now run windows is one of the main reasons that I'm considering buying a Mac. Oh no! I've been had...?

      Dear me, I better get back onto my Mac-lemming-hating high-horse before it's too late!...

      Daniel

      --
      Carpe Diem
    11. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by daviddennis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most Windows(tm) users don't even know what an OS is and have no basis for selecting one.

      If we look at the subset of Windows users who actually know alternatives exist - and I'd say that's 1 in 5 or even less - most of them are either used to Windows or would rather use an alternative but need to use software they're famliar with.

      But remember, Apple is starting from a small base. If Apple's market share changed from 3% to 6% - which I think is definitely possible - that would be a huge story.

      D

    12. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Probably more accurate to say that most users don't care about Windows. They like the available software choices on Windows and the ability to buy hardware from different manufacturers (now including Apple).

      Apple differentiates at a point most people simply don't care about (Operating System).

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    13. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by cortana · · Score: 5, Funny
      Most Windows users actually like their OS and would not want to switch.
      Stockholm Syndome, perhaps?
    14. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Brett+Buck · · Score: 2, Funny

      Of course, getting some to dump Windoze and use MacOS *IS* a public service...

    15. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by NineNine · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If so many Windows users hate Windows, then why aren't they switching? I know exactly where my local Mac store is. I've even played with them. I've heard that there are Apple ads on TV every few minutes these days. If masses of people wanted to switch, they would. Nobody is holding a gun to the back of my head forcing me to use Windows.

    16. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by squidfood · · Score: 2, Funny
      I use windows and have used macs, I prefer windows...

      I've hated macs since I saw that little smiley face come up in 1984.

      Then, I didn't want to pry my fingers away from my Apple II. Now, it's from windows. I never minded windows or Xwindows, because I always got the feeling they were kludges built on top of that (DOS | *nix) command prompt. That command prompt was my friend. It was my comfort food. It was behind everything when I needed it. With cygwin, it's even useable in Microsoft.

      Now my wife bought OS X. I tried it. I hoped for the best ("smooth interface and the *nix command prompt. yay."). But you know, it feels like the command prompt is the kludge, and the apps are so slick as to be invulnerable to tinkering, that little smiling computer still mocks me.

      I hate macs.

    17. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In my experience, *most* PC and Mac users are exactly alike -- the Mac guys don't know how to work a PC and don't want to learn; and they PC guys don't know how to work a Mac and don't want to learn. The only difference is the Mac guys are snooty enough to believe that a slight differences in the UI can be justified with reams of mumbo-jumbo pop-psycology bullshit.

      Present company on slashdot excepted.

      --
      Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
    18. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by eikonos · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe they aren't switching because they have to buy all new hardware and then learn a new OS and applications. This is exactly why Bootcamp is useful -- users who are considering buying new hardware, but aren't sure about switching OS's can dual-boot and try out OS X.

    19. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by stunt_penguin · · Score: 5, Funny

      A funny post, but you've got a serious point. How the fuck did this article get itself posted to /. in the first place. Is someone on crack?

      This is the worst written drivel I've ever had the displeasure of reading through /. ........... hang on a minute i'm going to the toilet to take a dump. I'll be back in 10 minutes with a piece of paper that makes more sense than this shit. I'll make the front page no problem.

      --
      When the posters fear their moderators, there is tyranny; when the moderators fears the posters, there is liberty.
    20. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Phrogman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do so many Mac users insist on this fantasy that Windows users really hate Windows and would switch to the Mac OS in a flash if only they had a chance to touch it's brushed chrome goodness? The fact is, your dislike of Windows has little bearing on wether others like it. Heck, you can even hate Windows with passion usually reserved for suicide bombers and it still would have very little influance on whether the general population would like it. Need, coersion and ignorance are not the only reasons people use Windows. Most Windows users actually like their OS and would not want to switch. This could, in fact, be a good chunk of the reason why the vast majority of Windows users, even the ones who've seen that really cool "Dock," have not switched.

      Well, I have to disagree. I have used Windows for years - mostly because I play games. I would switch to the Mac OS or any other OS in a milisecond if I could play my games on it. I can't say there is a single feature of Windows that would keep me using it. I have spent countless hours just fixing buggered up installations, reinstalling Windows because its been too long and its filled up with bloated crap I can't identify to remove, reinstalling because it just suddenly stopped working for no apparent reason, fixing other people's installations because they were screwing around and accidentally hit the "fuck up this installation" button somehow etc. You shouldn't have to fight your Operating System just to continue using it. You shouldn't have a shitty browser shoved up your ass by the Marketing Department at Microsoft. You shouldn't have them continuing their monopolistic practices (I guess the DOJ had the best judge that money could buy or something). Any loyalty MS might ever have gotten from me they have lost through their own shoddy software and business practices.

      I use Windows because I play PC games and thats the only reason. Its the tie to gaming that has made Windows so successful in my case and in the case of most of my friends. I can do almost any other thing I care to under Linux or OS/X but I can't play games when the developers of those games can't be bothered to develop them for any other platform. Sure there are emulation means I could use, some run under Wine etc, but my system isn't beefy enough to do that adequately and I don't have the cash to afford it. Hell I can't even afford a 40Gb drive at the moment.

      Windows sucks, but I have little or no choice in running it as long as the game developers are willing to continue to be Microsoft's bitch and only develop for Windows.

      --
      "The first time I got drunk, I got married. The second time I bought a chimpanzee, after that I stayed sober" Arian Seid
    21. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > (probably, I don't code)

      That small detail slightly undermines the credibility of your argument. As a programmer, I can offer some insight into your argument which is trotted out everytime an OSX/Windows BBQ hits slashdot. The truth of the matter is that while Windows itself does support a wide range of hardware, its less than Linux (which is free, and comparatively stable, if not more stable) and only sort-of more than OSX since most hardware specific code is abstracted from the OS in the form of common APIs.

      People can debate whether Windows is stable, not stable, better, not better than OSX until th cows come home, but the wide array of hardware argument is a tired old cliche that while somewhat relevant, pales on comparison to more important factors that contribute to code stability: the business approach, time to market policies, varying strategies in deploying product updates, level of integration with 2nd or 3rd party applications, internal organizational consistancy, etc, etc, etc. Most importantly, most everybody in the know agrees that it isn't supporting 'millions and millions' of configs that causes Windows to be such a huge codebase ... its MS trying to remain backwards compatible to itself .. so millions and millions of programs might be more accurate. MS bends over backwards to keep your old applications runnable on newer versions of the OS. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing (bad, IMHO) is an exercise left to the buyer, who pays for this backwards compatibility in lack of feature advancement and stability with each new revision of Windows.

      Most of the 'hardware' support is driven by the hardware (or OEM) vendors themselves; all OSes have sufficient hardware abstraction layers that make supporting 'millions and millions' of configs simply a matter of resources and market support, not technical hurdles.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    22. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by dloose · · Score: 5, Funny

      For everyone who thinks the parent is too long, here's the executive summary: "I've never used a Mac. Ever."

    23. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Jeremi · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Again: What is the problem?


      The Mighty Mouse is advertised as being able to work as a two-button mouse. With a two-button mouse, I can click the right mouse button while my finger is resting on the left mouse button, and the computer receives a right-click event. With the Mighty Mouse, that doesn't work: the computer receives a left-click event, even though I "clicked" the right side of the mouse.


      I call that a hardware bug. "Caveat emptor" is all well and good to say, but pretending the bug is actually a feature is only deluding yourself.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    24. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Babbster · · Score: 2, Informative

      Um, no. The "you don't have to have a Mighty Mouse with a Mac" theory doesn't always work. For example, the desktop systems (iMac, Power Mac and, presumably, the eventual Intel-based Power Mac replacement) come with the Mighty Mouse by default and the only other selectable option is upgrading to Mac's bluetooth KB/M combo which adds to the cost and is a step backwards to a one-button mouse with no scroll wheel - yuck.

      That said, I agree with the fundamental premise that if you don't like the MM then get something else. Mouse choices (and KB choices, for that matter) for heavy computer users are very personal choices and there's just no way to please everyone when you're trying to provide a standardized PC (which is the Apple way). I used to tote my MS split-hand keyboard back and forth between home and work because I found that I couldn't tolerate regular keyboards after using it...and because I was too cheap to buy one for my workspace and too timid to ask my boss to buy me one (which she would have done in a heartbeat). :)

    25. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by PasteEater · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "If so many Windows users hate Windows, then why aren't they switching?"

      a) The hardware is more expensive
      b) Gotta buy all new software
      c) Not wanting to devote hours re-learning how to use their computer
      d) The usual FUD (nothing's compatible, etc.)

      I'm a Mac user, but there are plenty of reasons not to switch even if you don't like Windows. To put it another way, "hating" Windows may not be compelling enough to scrap everything and start over.

      --
      There are two kinds of people in the world: those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
    26. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Kadin2048 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why do so many Mac users insist on this fantasy that Windows users really hate Windows and would switch to the Mac OS in a flash if only they had a chance to touch it's brushed chrome goodness?

      Well I'm not going to answer for anyone else here, but I think a lot of people hate Windows because I hear a lot of people talking about how much they hate Windows.

      Actually I don't really know anyone who'd be willing to go out in public and tell everyone how much they like Windows and how wonderful they think it is, and otherwise extoll its virtues, who isn't drawing a paycheck from Microsoft. To most people, Windows is right up there with beige carpet and Steelcase office furniture and #2 pencils. It's just there; you use it because its what you were given and because it's what's standard and because its what everyone else uses. You might hate it and know on some dim level that there's a better way, but it's not so spectacularly bad to drive you out of your rut.

      I think the great majority of people are apathetic about Windows, when you get right down to it.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    27. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Ryan+Amos · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah. Because the Windows users, who make up 95% of the computing market, aren't lemmings.

    28. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by squidfood · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Since XP (2000, really), DOS has been a kludge on top of the Win2K kernel.

      uh...yeah, I know...but Windows still feels like a kludge. It's kinda like preferring the Millenium Falcon to the Next Generation Enterprise (all those slick seamless touch sreens, I just bet that was Jobs' doing. Holodeck probably all DRMs and everything).

    29. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by colmore · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Funny, my only Microsoft product is a mouse...

      --
      In Capitalist America, bank robs you!
    30. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by NoodleSlayer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm a student and I worked for Apple for a year (software tester intern)

      All-in-all it cost be $1300 for my 12" Powerbook (Employee discount, yay!) and then another $500 to get all my apps legally with various student discounts and what not (Adobe CS, MS Office, iWork, etc.). Legal was very important because I was working at Apple and they don't take software piracy lightly. For a PC it would of been half that. Not to mention I already have licenses for most of that stuff on the PC side.

      I guess for a user that only uses Office, Email and a Web Browser the transition wouldn't be as bad, but its still painful on the bank acocunt, and I'd anticipate a number of "switchers" sticking on the PC side because they haven't gotten all their apps on Mac OS yet. At which point, what is the point?

      For Apple to really be successful with this I think there needs to be more emphasis on getting third-party vendors, especially Adobe, and Microsoft too for Office if they could swing it, but I doubt Microsoft would be willing, to package the Mac and Windows versions of a app in the same box. Then at least they could say "Well you already have the Mac versions of the Apps, so why don't you switch?"

    31. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by ArizonaJer · · Score: 2, Interesting
      And on the flip side, where the "OS for everything else" is Windows, not OSX (as Em Adespoton implies), the "one word" could be the phrase "Final Cut Pro."

      I'm seriously considering buying a dual-boot Mac for the sole purpose of shoring up the non-linear editing on Windows.

      Even though lately I've been happy to edit video in Adobe Premiere or even Premiere Elements on WinXP, all of my DV pals use FCP. I'd love to be able to profit from their expertise by switching to FCP myself.

      --
      Jeremy Butler
      www.ScreenSite.org
      www.TVCrit.com
    32. Re:Message for Captain Obvious by Chode2235 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Worked for me. I have been a windows user all my life, and have admired apple since I became reintroduced to them through my 2nd gen iPod.

      I wanted to try OS X out, downloaded it off a torrent installed it on my inspiron notebook, fell in love, realized the crap windows is, and bought an iMac a month later.

      I think it is true, I hate windows, and I really hate having to fix other people I know's windows boxes. I have told them all that I now have a mac, and that their 'support contracts' now require them to make a platform migration.

      Apple wins.

  2. So what you're telling me is... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...the editor of PC Magazine reads Slashdot? What a shocker. And he even ads* in the requisite amount of Jobs hating because he knows his readers are Windows fans.

    All I have to say is: Where's my royalty check?

    * Whoops, freudian slip

    P.S. What does everyone think of the new comment system?

    P.P.S. Yes, I really typed ads. I figured it was more insightful to point it out rather than correct it.


    1. Re:So what you're telling me is... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Oh, lighten up. Get out of the house, visit the beach, work on your sense of humor a bit, and find me the other 99998 comments as proof.

      (I kid, I kid!)

      (Also, I've noticed that linking to one of your own posts is Never-Fail Karma Whore tactics.)

      Which explains why I'm currently modded +4 rather than my usual +5. *finger-snap* I knew I did something wrong.

      Seriously, relax. Sit back and chill out a bit. I'll be working on a list of "Times I've been right when everyone told me I was wrong" very soon now. Top on the list will be Goobuntu isn't for consumers! Wait, did I just link to my own post again? Damn. I guess I'll have to live with the +5^W^W +4 score. Sorry about that. I won't do it again. Really. (Oops.)

    2. Re:So what you're telling me is... by AKAImBatman · · Score: 3, Funny

      How did Jim Louderback get the Editor-in-Chief position, anyway?

      I don't understand your surprise. This is the same magazine that gainfully employs John C. Dvorak! =)

  3. Apple's Confidence by RunFatBoy.net · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In economics, the most efficient markets are those that can be directly competed against one another. It's a definite statement of confidence by Apple that they will *support* the means to run a competing OS on their system. This may be the first time (myself included) that users will see the two OS's, side by side. BC is the only economic way of doing this comparison.

    While there may be drivers lacking initially, I have full confidence that the open source community will fill this void. And with both OS's available and with XP trying my patience, maybe I'll finally take the dive full-time into OSX and BC will be a non-issue. :-)

    Jim http://www.runfatboy.net/ -- A workout plan that doesn't feel like homework.

    1. Re:Apple's Confidence by ect5150 · · Score: 5, Informative

      In economics, the most efficient markets are those that can be directly competed against one another.

      I'm just nitpicking here, but that's not what defines efficient markets in economics. A discriminating monopolist market is also efficient. Efficiency is defined by Pareto efficiency ...
      Here is a link
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficient

      Although, its true a perfectly competitive situation results in an efficient market. Most of the time, people like perfect competition mainly because its the market with the lowest prices, not because of its efficiency to allocate resources.

      By the way, neither Apple nor Microsoft exist in a highly competitve market (as defined by those terms in economics).

      --
      I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
    2. Re:Apple's Confidence by spun · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pareto efficiency seems to be a method for defending the status quo, i.e. we can't make any changes that would make anyone less happy. I mean, I see it's a usefull concept, but it seems to ignore the possiblity that maybe some greedy fuckers deserve to be made a little less happy so the rest of us can be a little more happy.

      But I'm just a mutant commie traitor, what do I know?

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  4. Mom and Apple Pie by yancey · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'd rather have Apple pie than Windows pie. Ewww.. gross!

    --
    Ouch! The truth hurts!
  5. Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime... by Sierran · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...those of us who have a reason to use it will reap the benefits. Yes, Virginia, there are some. Battlefield 2, for example. Annoyingly-single-platform hardware updaters, like cell phone flashers and the like. Those little one-off tasks that I used to have to go find a windows PC for? Not so much anymore. Whee! When I need to do real work? Yep, you're right, I turn back into a pod person.

    Seriously, why does this guy care so much?

    --
    A hero is someone who knows when to run away. I am a hero. -Trent the Uncatchable
  6. Confused? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, users are going to try OS X, find it works better for them, keep using it, and this makes them lemmings and pod people? I would have thought that this term applied better to people who used a system that didn't work as well for them as the alternatives. By starting the argument assuming that OS X is less frustrating than Windows pretty much destroys any change the author had of making a coherent argument that people should now switch.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    1. Re:Confused? by HrothgarReborn · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Anyone who does not jump off the cliff is a lemmming. You don't want to be a lemming...DO YOU?!! It's time to start challenging the status quo, just because everyone is rethinking the whole operating system thing doesn't mean you need to do it too. We shouldn't mindlessly march off with something just because its the best system.

      I have actually had people use this same logic and almost these exact words when I suggested we should apply security patches to our systems. They were serious. Scary.

  7. Strange definition of "lemming" by vanyel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So let me understand this: people compare two os's side by side on the same hardware. When they find that the one they're not familiar with is much better than the one they're used to, and they switch, they're lemmings? I always thought a lemming would be doing what everyone else does just because everyone else does it, which sounds a lot more like your typical Windoze user to me...

    Unfortunately, I don't think anyone's going to buy a relatively expensive mac just so they can try osx on a machine that will still run windoze. Boot Camp's primary utility is saving mac users from having to buy a pc to run applications that they need to run, but which only work in windoze. If/when a native mode virtual pc comes out, boot camp will be even less relevant. To that end, I can agree that boot camp is nothing to get excited about, but that doesn't mean it's without merit.

    1. Re:Strange definition of "lemming" by AnimusF6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Though I hate to prove you wrong, I, a long time Windows advocate, bought a MacBook Pro solely because of Boot Camp. Yes, Boot Camp convinced me to switch. I found myself in a position that required that I buy a laptop, and intead of going with a boring old Windows box I was able to experiment. I still get the Windows access that my position requires, but I can play around with an entirely new (to me) toy.

  8. What's the problem again? by Cl1mh4224rd · · Score: 2, Insightful
    "Jobs's bet: You'll start spending more and more time in OS X, until you--too--become one of the pod people. It's sad to see so many of my compatriots being turned into lemmings. Perhaps they'll wake up and smell the Apple pie in the sky--and realize they've been taken for a ride. But I doubt it."
    If you have two products side-by-side, and one is clearly better in your mind, how the hell does that make you a lemming?

    I don't his compatriots are the ones who need to wake up.
    --
    People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
    1. Re:What's the problem again? by Bogtha · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If you have two products side-by-side, and one is clearly better in your mind, how the hell does that make you a lemming?

      If people find OS X to be clearly better, then that conflicts with his belief that Windows is clearly better. He can resolve this conflict in two ways:

      1. Admitting he might be wrong in his unquestioning belief in Windows and reexamining his practices.
      2. Finding some way of explaining the behaviour of people who switch that doesn't bring him to the conclusion Windows is inferior in some way.

      Which do you think makes him uncomfortable? Which do you think makes him feel superior?

      --
      Bogtha Bogtha Bogtha
  9. How did this guy even get a job? by scrondle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I knew there was a reason I haven't looked at PC Magazine since 1998. That's not an article, it's a rant. How about some technical details/reasons why he doesn't like boot camp? What a tool.

    1. Re:How did this guy even get a job? by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I stopped reading dead-tree computer magazines a while ago for a few reasons. I used to subscribe to Computer Shopper, but I stopped about 6-8 years ago.
      1. I originally liked it because a lot of suppliers published their entire catalogue in the adverts section. It was nice to be able to compare prices. Then then Internet happened to them all. They would have updated their prices by the time the dead-tree edition arrived, and so it became worthless. Since this was a good 60-80% of the magazine by page count, it was a big drop in value.
      2. The news started getting really old. Stuff I'd read about online a month ago would be being presented as news.
      3. The editorials were really dull. If you've got an entire month to prepare something, you could at least try to make it interesting...
      4. They canned most of the non-PC sections. They used to have Acorn, Atari, Amiga, and a few other sections. While I didn't use these platforms, it was nice to keep up to date with what was going on with them.
      I eventually realised that the only column I was reading was the Mac column. That was always entertaining because it was some old guy complaining about how much his Mac sucked (or a neighbour's PC, or kids today, or something completely irrelevant). A sort of artsy BOFH, if you will. Anyway, I decided it wasn't worth paying for 900 pages when I only wanted to read 2.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  10. Idiot... by Glock27 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Once you've laid out a few kilobucks on your BC system and been frustrated a few times with Windows limitations, what are you going to do? Jobs's bet: You'll start spending more and more time in OS X, until you--too--become one of the pod people.

    Um, fool, the "pod people" are the 90%+ who are Windows lemmings, putting up with the myriad faults of that OS. I guess that's what I'd expect from a "PC Magazine" editor...mindless Apple bashing, whether it makes sense or not.

    --
    Galileo: "The Earth revolves around the Sun!"
    Score: -1 100% Flamebait
  11. And your point is? by n2art2 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I mean really. . . . . We all aready knew this. It wasn't some big shocker.

    What is a big shocker is that this guy doesn't get the fact that that is exactly the reason that many people are thinking about buying a mac, because they can try out a mac and still have windoz to fall back on (ouch that would have to hurt).

    He touts this as if people are jumping into it blindly, and being swindeled. Come on, get with it. Pleople realize this, and are looking forward to it. It's a benefit, not some underhanded sucker punch.

    --
    Self proclaimed wannabe geek. You know how it is. Most of us who read this stuff probably fit in that category.
  12. Consider the source: Louderbeck by sakusha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Remember that screed was written by Jim Louderbeck, one of the more notorious anti-Mac PeeCee trolls. I still remember him doing the commentary on a Stevenote carried on ZDTV a few years back, he nitpicked on everything, for no good reasons. Note that his employer, Ziff-Davis, has a major investment from Vulcan Ventures (Paul Allen). Loudermouth knows he has to cater to his owner's financial interests. Nice little doggie, sit up and beg, little Loudermouth!

    1. Re:Consider the source: Louderbeck by ickoonite · · Score: 4, Informative

      The whole article is supposed to be mildly sarcastic. I am British, so I can detect these things. It's not very well done, but it's the reason he links to himself calling himself "some idiot", and specifically namedrops Mac-compatible hardware (M-Audio and KONA) when wondering whether the stuff will be compatible or not.

      Trouble is, it has rather gone over the average Slashdotter's head. He'll be laughing his arse off now.

      iqu :P

    2. Re:Consider the source: Louderbeck by Daedala · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well... I'm not British, but I've been declared an Honorary Brit for my grasp of irony. I'm also a professional editor and writer.

      And this was just really poorly done. He has no control of tone at all. The "effete" crack in particular was icky (that's the technical term). Only an editor-in-chief could have published it, because anyone else would have been edited by someone who wasn't quite so in love with the thing. Just because it was intended to be satire, doesn't mean it was.

      This is why most Americans are not allowed to have Sarcasm Licenses.

      --
      What I say does not represent the views of my employers, my friends, my cats, or myself.
    3. Re:Consider the source: Louderbeck by sakusha · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You know, I was thinking about the general practice of PC magazines trolling Mac users for hits. It occurs to me that the PC magazines' advertisers are getting the shaft. Mac users aren't the target market for PC-specific ads, but the PC advertisers pay for those page views by Mac users anyway. I suspect that on an extreme troll, the proportion of Mac users might be as high as 90%, with tens, maybe even hundreds of thousands of page views. And the PC advertisers are paying for all those hits, and it's all for nothing, Mac users aren't interested in buying PC products.
      It is time for the PC advertisers to send a clear message to the Dvoraks, Louderbecks, and other trolls, to stop wasting their advertising dollars by trolling Mac users.

  13. Re:If Jobs really wanted people to switch... by jmelloy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Enh, I think Jobs would rather have more money than more market share.

    I'll wait until you figure out the difference between $3,000 and $130.

  14. Let me get this straight by Tx · · Score: 2, Funny

    A feature to encourage people to buy a Mac is really a cunning plan to get them to switch to Mac? Wow, he must be a genius to have figured that one out...

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
  15. Holy crap! by Ambiguous+Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X.


    Holy crap! Revelation of the year! I can't imagine this being true!


    Seriously, how is this possibly a new idea? Of course that's what it's for. And switching because of "limitations" in the other OS makes you a lemming? No, I'm afraid not. That makes you "smart." See, when people decide to stop hitting themselves in the head with a hammer, and instead opt for hitting themselves in the head with, say, a a soft piece of fruit, or an old ham, we call that "learning one's lesson."


    The author here needs to get over his own case of being a lemming, and try something new. Pod-people? The whole article stinks of the exact same thralldom the author envisions anyone who switches being caught in.


    Yes, I own a mac. Oh, but guess what, I also own a Windows box, and a Linux box! I'm not going to say which one I prefer, because doing so would, at least according to this article, make me a lemming.

    --
    Their may be a grammatical error, misspeling, or evn a typo in this post.
  16. i wrote this guy an email by signore+pablo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    before i saw it here on slashdot. The article is a big troll. I told him he should title it "I don't like Macs and Here's Why:" Seriously he compares a lot more than boot camp here. He compares macs to windows as a whole and doesn't say all that much about boot camp in itself. Besides, its still in beta so wait for Leapard before a review like this. He mentions hardware that might not run and upgradability being a problem, but come on the hardware he mentions is the kind of stuff that people that would be using it would know whether or not it would be beneficial to use a mac or not with. The kind of people Boot Camp is for ain't what he thinks it is. Either that or again, he's trolling. Boot camps good for gamers, period. (in my opinion) Everyone else that uses a mac and needs to run Windows software can use virtualization software. OR, boot into windows... but i still see it as mostly for gamers and/or people with some lingering other high powered windows software that doesnt run in mac osx. but again, why would you buy a mac if you do professional editing or some other thing in windows? as he mentioned professional sound cards and such, whatever... this guy is a deuschebag

  17. Seems to be working.... by Sergeant+Beavis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It seems to be working because I have every intention of buying a MacPro laptop and dual booting OSX. Apple finally took away my last excuse to give them a shot.

    Now I just need to give up an arm and leg to get the money to buy one.

    --
    There is nothing inherently safe about liberty. That's why so many people died protecting it.
  18. Apple isn't out to steal Windows users by Shazow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My understanding is that BootCamp allows current Mac users to run Windows on their Mac. The article seems to argue that this will encourage Windows users to get Macs and stick with OSX instead of BootCamping in Windows. That may apply to a few people, but for the most part I disagree.

    As others have pointed out, it seems that the primary strategy behind BootCamp is: Give people the option to use whatever operating system they like. Apple has allowed their consumers to install Linux on their machines since forever, and now they're allowing Windows, too.

    What does Apple have to gain? Profits from hardware sales, of course. Plus, whenever you're buying a Mac, you're also buying OSX, so they're not losing much software profits either. Who else has to gain? Possibly Microsoft in the short run (all those Mac kiddies giving Windows a shot without having to buy a PC).

    And then there is the whole other market of people who aren't concerned about software expandability so much as hardware. Macs aren't great for upgrading their hardware. Windows or no windows.

    - shazow

  19. The More Effete Among Us by American+AC+in+Paris · · Score: 5, Insightful
    From TFA:

    The more effete among us have embraced BC because now they can run all their favorite Windows apps on a saucy, sexy Mac.

    Wow. Nothing says "class" like a thinly-veiled "Macs are for fags" joke.

    You'd exect this sort of thing from a random blogger or Slashdotter, not the freakin' editor-in-chief of PC Magazine.

    --

    Obliteracy: Words with explosions

  20. Suckers? Yesss! by MobyDisk · · Score: 5, Funny

    Did anyone else read the headline "Boot Camp For Suckers?" and imagine that this was a camp run by Dogbert? I was ready to sign-up some coworkers.

  21. Missing the point? by abes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I suspect that the majority of people are not buying macs to run windows as their primary OS. If so, I'm going to agree with him. If I wanted to spend the same amount of money and run windows, I'd get a tablet. If only Apple made one...

    The fact is, the majority of people buying the MacTel, are buying it because it runs OSX AND Windows. No other laptop can really claim that -- at least legally (and easily). This is a really important distinction. I love OSX. I'm a linuxhead, but just having things work, and work together seamlessly. Priceless. (though my desktop is still a linux box)

    For my laptop, I have no desire to run windows. I'm through with that agony in my life. I want to enjoy my computing experience. However, I am realistic. There are some applications, unfortunately, that still require windows. Bootcamp gives me the perfect compromise.

    So, this editor is way off base. It's true, Apple isn't performing a public service. But they are taking down one more barrier that would normally stop people from buying their computers. And it's true. Once you start using OS X, you find yourself much less likely to go back to Windows. But not because of some strange Apple conspiracy. Because it kicks M$'s ass (comparing apples to lemons?). And this is from someone who wouldn't touch a Mac a couple years ago.

  22. Praising with Faint D@mns ... by rewinn · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Once you've .... been frustrated a few times with Windows limitations, what are you going to do? .... start spending more and more time in OS X

    I don't know whether the article is confused or trying to be clever, but I don't think Apple minds 'criticism' such as that.

    1. Re:Praising with Faint D@mns ... by Threepio · · Score: 2, Funny

      But the majority of the hardware most people plug into a Mac is USB or Firewire... which is usually Mac Compatible. Kinda mootificates your argument a bit.

  23. Re:frustrated a few times with Windows limitations by goMac2500 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm sure you know some great programmers, but honestly, they don't know what they're talking about. First, I like OS X because frequently when I have trouble, I can go pull up the source code to Core Foundation and look at the source of the API I'm using. You can't do that with Windows. while Mac OS X's Core Foundation is open source, Windows has no equivalent Open Source code from the OS. Secondly, the Security API allows me to obtain authorization from the user for my application to do anything it. If I wanted, I could use the Security API to get authorization from the user, and then set about destroying the entire operating system. Yes, there are bounds given so that the user can't accidently delete the system folder, but as soon as a Mac OS X application obtains user authorization via the Security API (by the user inputting his/her name and password), the operating system assumes that program is trusted by the user, and at that point, the program can do anything they want.

    For your Windows programming friends to say OS X closes off systems, they must have had very little or no Mac programming experience. Apple restricts applications for security reasons, but as soon as an application obtains authorization, all bets are off.

  24. Apple attract a lot of suckers by kentrel · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Apple do what they do very well, but they also market extremely well, and a lot of suckers are attracted to their products because they think they're "cool", such as this nonsensical obsession with iPods.. I listen to music while I'm running, walking to work etc all the time (for several hours a day) - I'm the kind of person that would get a huge amount of use out of such a product, yet I still don't feel I need one. My 256MB flash player does the job superbly, is lighter and the single AA battery lasts longer. I'm not saying iPod isn't a great product, all of these Hard Disc music players are great.. but i don't think the majority of people who bought them bought them out of necessity, or even just want but simply because it was cool, it was fashionable.

    There are a lot of suckers out there, and many slaves to the marketing machine that is Apple, and I bet even most geeks blindly believe "tech specs" and out of context benchmarks if it gives them a good excuse to be fashionable, have the latesty trendy useless gimmick, and for bonus points, send Microsoft a Fuck You.

    Also, what's with macs and Hollywood? Pretty much everyone I know who works in the film industry owns a mac. Is it because of the product placement Apple likes to do? They swear they're better without knowing much about them, or even knowing what Linux is.

  25. Truly sad! by Jerry+Coffin · · Score: 4, Funny
    ...Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X.

    You sir, have a mediocre grasp of the blindingly obvious!

    I'm tempted to go into a lot more detail, but it would just weaken the message...

    --
    The universe is a figment of its own imagination.
  26. Jim Louderback by jayhawk88 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Making John Dvorak look sane and reasonable since 1988.

  27. Re:frustrated a few times with Windows limitations by FeloniousPunk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    whereas mac closes off its systems so normal users cant screw it up.

    How did this get modded "interesting?"

    Care to elaborate how Mac OS X "closes off its systems so normal users can't screw it up?"

    --
    I know this because Tyler knows this.
  28. Windows = MacMame by Yergle143 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I run two curious little game emulators. The first is called Mame and it permits me run a bunch of antique games once written for public coin-fed consoles. The second is called Boot camp and it permits me to run games on a kooky antique dollar-fed operating system. 537

  29. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by Lewisham · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Seriously, why does this guy care so much?"

    Apparently he's noticed that John C. Dvorak's trolling puts the hit count through the roof. Only makes sense to start using the rest of the magazine's brand to start trolling as well.

    He's obviously got some sort of logic malfunction, his arguments are both bizarre and full of emotive language. It's professional trolling.

  30. Re:If Jobs really wanted people to switch... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why would Steve care what switches you used with your Media Access Controller?

  31. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by Lewisham · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I forgot to mention, that of particular note, is the last paragraph:

    "In fact, I'm blaming the AAF for a wide-range of habits espoused by supposedly "creative people." I'll bet it's responsible for tattoos, piercings, and the wide-spread adoption of the phrase "no worries." In fact, I believe that most of today's societal ills can be either indirectly or directly attributed to Apple. Widespread hearing loss? Blame the iPod. Carpal tunnel? Blame the Newton."

    This is so insane that it seems he's trying to hint that the rest of the article was just a troll as well. He also links to a piece he wrote where he thought Boot Camp was pretty sweet. I don't know what he's trying to pull, but I'm sure his advertisers are happy.

  32. Warning: Humour Alert by ickoonite · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Guys, guys, guys! Calm down, calm down!

    I think he's trying to be funny.

    I am English. I know sarcasm. It's what we do. And I think that's what he's trying to do here. It's not very well done, but there are little hints. It's why he links to himself and calls himself "some idiot". It's why he specifically mentions the M-Audio and Kona kit (the latter is Mac only). Of course it works with the Mac.

    So all those who are praising him for his insight, for debunking the Mac myth - stop now. Same goes for the Mac fanbois who are trying to find fault with his article.

    It's subtle, I'll allow that, but remember: always consult the nearest Brit before responding to something that sounds a little bit too stupid to be true. It probably is.

    iqu :P

    1. Re:Warning: Humour Alert by A+Nun+Must+Cow+Herd · · Score: 2, Insightful
      "It's not very well done"
      Now that's an understatement ;o) Poorly done sarcasm can be as idiotic as the idiotic thing said unsarcastically.
    2. Re:Warning: Humour Alert by idsofmarch · · Score: 2, Insightful
      That's always the danger with this kind of satire, unless it's very well delivered it can make the author seem utterly insane. I didn't figure it out until after I'd read the article, gotten pissed, and then clicked on the 'some idiot' link and just had to say WTF?

      Apparently, Dvorak has been doing satire for years.

      --
      Anyone who whines about being modded down should be.
  33. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Seriously, why does this guy care so much?

    Just a guess? Job security. Or if not that in particular (if you can train a monkey to write about Windows, you can retrain it to write about Macs), then perhaps he is feeling the relevance of his "core competence" slowly inexorably slipping away.

    He does seem quite bitter about his friends and associates adopting Apple hardware. If some of them find that OS X is a better OS for their daily needs, why would he begrudge them that, calling them lemmings? He even claims that their IQs are going to slip downwards. It might be that the various insults are an attempt at humor, but if so, it doesn't really work.

    No, I think this excuse for an article is just a sign of the author's insecurity. You can pretty much smell his fear. I don't know what he has to be afraid of in reality, but this guy is shaking in his boots just the same.

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  34. WIndows users aren't Lemmings? Huh? by Viewsonic · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Yeah, really, I don't understand that. OSX users are a rare breed compared to Windows users. Perhaps he's just a disgruntled Linux user who was hoping his OS of choice would sit in the spotlight OSX is currently getting. No such luck.

    Jealously is a pretty funny thing.

  35. Re:Might work the OTHER way around by Senzei · · Score: 2, Insightful
    And what happens when Joe Machead tries out Windows for the first time and realizes "Hey, you mean you can play GAMES on this thing?!?" OS X might suddenly not look so attractive and his next purchase be a lower-priced PC.

    Have you ever met a mac user that you could imagine doing this? Most of the ones I met think that sitting them in front of windows is pretty close to asking them to do differential calculus in their head while juggling. For 99% of mac users booting into windows will be a distateful task that is required to play games, and nothing more.

    --
    Slashdot: Where anecdotes and generalizations can be freely substituted for facts, logic, or intelligence
  36. Re:Nice spin by phozz+bare · · Score: 5, Interesting
    It's refreshing to finally see such a non-biased article about Apple.

    Let me see...

    "...once you start using a Mac, your IQ begins to creep downwards..."

    "It's sad to see so many of my compatriots being turned into lemmings."

    "...smell the Apple pie in the sky..."

    "...I'll be smart, fit, and enjoying my real Windows computers..."

    Right.. A sensible, balanced, well written, thought provoking piece! That's it, time to ditch the old Mac, cause everyone knows that only a Windows machine is a real computer!

    phozz

  37. Yeah... And you know what? ... by John+Betonschaar · · Score: 2, Interesting

    He writes that Boot Camp is really just a plan to get Windows users to convert to OS X."

    It worked for me... I bought a core duo iMac, though I was used to Windows and Linux as a primary home and work OS, respectively. But i really liked the design and the level of hardware integration of the iMac, so I went for it anyway.

    When Boot Camp was released as a beta a few days later I was really excited, especially as it was a vendor-supported dual-boot solution, and I was still using a reasonable number of Windows-only applications and games on a daily basis.

    Now I have a native Windows XP install that runs great, just as if I was running normal x86 hardware, and it sucks ass compared to the OS X environment running on the same hardware ... I actually booted XP a few times just after I installed it, but now I'm considering removing it altogether, because it annoys me within 5 minutes of using it.

    Note that this is someone speaking who never used OS X before and used Linux as his primary home OS. Now I'd choose OS X over *any* OS for desktop usage...

  38. Re:If Jobs really wanted people to switch... by NutscrapeSucks · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The margins in the rest of the PC industry are around 5%, so I would imagine that Apple is in about the same place. 5% of $3,000 is $150.

    Apple's margins are usually cited to be around 25% -- a lot more than 5%-10% Dell takes in.

    Now it's true that Apple's higher-end machines are price-competitive, because they are competiting with the (very small) segment of the PC market that also has high margins.

    But average price of a PC is more like $500 than $3000 -- and that's the place where Apple brings in the cash that others don't. You can be sure that Apple is making very fat money with machines like the Mini and iMac.

    --
    Whenever I hear the word 'Innovation', I reach for my pistol.
  39. Logical Analysis by Kelson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The logic of the piece appears to be thus:

    1. I don't like Macs, Apple, or Steve Jobs.
    2. I don't like anything that can't be tinkered with.
    3. Boot Camp is an Apple Product.
    4. By #1 and #2, anyone who likes any of the above is an idiot and/or brainwashed.
    5. By #3 and #4, Boot Camp is for idiots.

    While #5 may proceed logically from #3 and #4, #4 does not proceed from #1 or #2.

    I'd say the author has a wonderful future ahead of him in either Slashdot trolling, talk radio, or writing about politics. Editing a computer magazine? Not so sure about that one.

  40. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by DurendalMac · · Score: 2, Informative

    And I'll bet that Inspiron is bulky and heavy. Apple is interested in making sleek laptops, not portables. They can't please everyone.

  41. he just replied to me! by signore+pablo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From : Louderback, Jim
    Sent : Thursday, May 4, 2006 8:33 PM
    To : "Paul *"
    Subject : RE: Boot Camp: Apple Bobs for Suckers

    It was meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek. Glad you liked it and saw
    it that way!

  42. I just got a MacBook Pro by ender-iii · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've been a Mac user for some time now, yet I still need to write Windows versions of our software. Before I had a PowerBook(15) and a Desktop, but got pissed because I was tied to my desk to do Windows programming. I searched for months to find a computer that measured up to my PowerBook. In the end I got an IBM Z60m. After hating that, I decided on a MacBook Pro to replace both my laptops. (Thank god for IBM's 30 day return policy)

    I don't feel like a sucker...
    IBM (Lenovo) is a sucker because demand for their product has gone down...
    MS is a sucker because I wasn't forced to buy another copy of XP with a new laptop...

    I win.

    --
    ender-iii
  43. The Article is Troll Bait, Don't Waste Your Time by sofla · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Subject says it all. I went over to read the linked article and I regretted it. The guy is so painfully clueless on this topic, its hard to know where to begin. His most blatant mis-statement:

    "Apple's not interested in a DIY Mac, nor is it concerned with the case-mod culture of the PC."

    True Apple isn't big on a DIY system. Neither are most Mac users. But saying that there isn't a case-mod culture among Mac users is completely asinine. MacAddict runs case mod articles - with photos - on a semi-regular basis, all you'd have to do is pick up a back issue or two to see how wrong this statement is. And if you don't know about MacAddict (as I suspect the author doesn't) you really have no business making commentary about Mac users or case-mod culture.

    "I don't know about you, but when I buy a computer I want everything to work right."

    This of course is one of the top reasons that people buy Macs. The tight integration between the OS and the hardware still beats Windows Plug-and-Pray 9 times out of 10. "Plug it in, and it just works" has been the Apple mantra for *years*. Its what the users expect. Compare to Windows XP, where plugging in a new monitor meant I had to re-install my wireless network driver, or adding memory forces me to register with Microsoft on my next reboot? I'm not sure what's worse, that these things happen or that it doesn't bother me anymore.

    There are other serious flaws with the article. It really has no redeeming value, and its just so loaded with flamebait it reflects poorly on the authors of PC Magazine that they even published it.

  44. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by frilledren · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Jealousy is painful, and it can cause people to lash out foolishly. In general, however, we can easily recognize such sad behavior, as the frailty of one's argument can be easily measured by the abusiveness of the language employed.
    Louderback makes numerous irrelevant assertions in his rant, but one that particularly bothers me is the contention that 'really creative computer users' are the ones doing all kinds of case modifications. I think a lot of these mods are really novel, but aside from 'overclocking' type mods, are largely unrelated to anything to with it being a computer, and in general, are designed to potray an illusion of futuristic utility.
    Do you judge the quality of your doctor by the number of different blinking LEDs he or she has afixed to his or her instruments, or do you concern yourself more with the work done with those instruments? In point, the work employing computers in research groups around the world, usually does not hinge upon blue neon lights or hamster tubes being included, and much of this work is indeed very creative.
    For me, computers are tools, and often necessary evil ones that can make some ridiculously simple needs seem impossible. Anything that lets me work more and jiggle cables/restart/reinstall/etc. less is a better tool.

  45. THANK YOU! by ShaneThePain · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Finally someone gets it. Bootcamp is for playing games on a mac. Bootcamp is the *only* reason I would ever buy a mac. Before bootcamp, no games means NO MACS.

    --
    Fascism is the greatest political ideology ever conceived. Sorry.
    1. Re:THANK YOU! by laffer1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not this damn no games for the mac rant. WoW and Quake 4 don't count as games? I'm not going to bother with the full list. Research it yourself. The only games you can't play are Steam games (valve sucks on this issue) and some crappy games that no one wanted to port. Hell there's even a beta of ventrilo now.

      Guess what OSX = lower ping for WoW. Microsoft needs to overhaul there IP stack again if you ask me. I love linux or OSX for gaming simply because my ping is always better.

      I think bootcamp is really for businesses. It allows them to migrate off windows only apps to something better. I've almost talked my boss into buying a MacBook Pro at work for the university newspaper advisor. The only thing he needs windows for now is a stupid university app for payroll that was custom written using jinitiator (oracle bs). The whole paper runs on macs and it would be easier for him to interoperate on a mac.

      I'm excited about the new macs overall. Bootcamp will allow me to buy one computer instead of two. I've got a dell workstation and an ibook now. When i upgrade next, I'll just buy a mac for my windows and mac needs. Maybe if i'm lucky, *BSD will run as well and i can get rid of my bsd box too. That would mean apple gets 3000 dollars toward a box, dell and newegg get zero.

    2. Re:THANK YOU! by Schraegstrichpunkt · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Guess what OSX = lower ping for WoW. Microsoft needs to overhaul there IP stack again if you ask me. I love linux or OSX for gaming simply because my ping is always better.

      My guess is that it's the scheduler. At least on Windows 2000, the thing was so broken (even in optimize-for-"Background Services"-mode) that I had to re-write a multi-process application to use a sigle process with multiple threads, because producer-consumer was just too much for the OS to handle. I think the last time Linux was so bad, it was considered a bug and fixed within a few releases.

      Cross-platform apps tend to be more affected, because they haven't been designed specifically to work around Microsoft's brain damage.

      JMHO

    3. Re:THANK YOU! by ultranova · · Score: 2, Funny

      Not this damn no games for the mac rant. WoW and Quake 4 don't count as games? I'm not going to bother with the full list.

      You already did.

      Sorry, couldn't resist ;). Mod me troll, I deserve it...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

  46. Re:Might work the OTHER way around by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Informative

    So what? Yeah, it *might* work the other way around in a few instances.... but I think most of the people with an interest in playing all the latest releases of games already know that Windows is the platform of choice for computer gaming. Every Mac user I've run across either does their gaming on a console (and heck, an XBox is practically a Windows PC without the keyboard and mouse anyway!), or else they also own a Windows PC they use for gaming.

    Most people who already use OS X and Macs do so because they've already tried Windows at some point or other, and decided it wasn't really the environment they wanted to be in all day, every day when using their computer. The new ability to boot into XP via Boot Camp isn't likely to open many existing Mac users' eyes to "the undiscovered world of Windows - the platform already used on 95% of the computers out there".

  47. Re:Jealousy is a terrible thing. In the meantime.. by Moofie · · Score: 4, Funny

    And the Dells come with a free forklift to carry them around! They're super-awesome!

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  48. Re:Word of the Day: Switcher by colinrichardday · · Score: 3, Funny

    real Mac user: someone true to who they are, the misfits, the rebels, the troublemakers, the round pegs in the square holes. The ones who see things differently. They're not fond of rules and they have no respect for the status quo. The ones who are crazy enough to think that they can change the world.

    So Stallman is a Mac user?

  49. "Limitations"? by toadlife · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Please describe the "limitations" Windows brings.

    Yes, security is a potential problem with Windows, but not what I would call a limitation. Hell, if you were a MS astroturfer, you could even tout is as a feature (look at all of the viruses the WIndows can run that Macs can't!*).

    But seriosuly, both platforms have limitations. Windows can not run some of the neato "i____" apps that Mac comes with and Mac's can't run most games and certain other apps. To describe WIndows and the only OS with "limitations" is a bit baised IMO.

    *That was a joke...sort of. ;)

    --
    I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
  50. Calling Mac OS X users Lemmings ? by Tripnotik · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What really got to me in the announce, and the reason why I didn't go as far as reading the entire article, is this guy dares calling OSX users lemmings, when 90% of people out there use Windows ... what a dumbass !

  51. Biased summary (biased article) by SilentJ_PDX · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Perhaps they'll wake up and smell the Apple pie in the sky--and realize they've been taken for a ride. But I doubt it.

    When you're given a fair chance to evaluate two alternatives, and decide on one of them... how is that 'being taken for a ride'?

    BC users can use either OS. The summary assumes that choosing Windows is the right alternative and choosing Mac is the sucker one.

    Poor.

  52. 3 Words: Vista June 2007 by DanTheLewis · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're going to get your wish. It's Mac OSX vs. Windows XP for the back to school season. Read Mini when the first Vista delay came down. It's not just Macnazis worried about Apple's next bite out of the market.

    Along with Wal-Mart getting into the computer building business, we might see some interesting things happening in the next six months.

    I don't hate Windows with the passion of a thousand fiery suns, but I know people who were waiting for Vista who will wander into the Apple Store now. My house has Linux, Windows, and OSX, but that situation is rare.

    I'd be happy to see your statistics about how much people love Windows.

    --

    Q: What did the comedian say to the crowd?
    A: If I knew, this joke would be funny.
  53. Lemming flag... by eltonito · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I have a hard time taking commentary on Apple seriously when the author invokes the lemming myth. Contrary to myth, they don't all follow each other to certain death.

    Seriously though, Boot Camp is nothing more than a marketing ploy to get more folks to check out Apple. From the recent purchases of my friends and co-workers, Boot Camp is doing a good job too.

  54. Pareto Efficiency probably not the best model by Gary+W.+Longsine · · Score: 2, Informative
    Efficiency is defined by Pareto efficiency ... Here is a link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_efficient [wikipedia.org]
    Pareto Efficiency is a special type of efficiency from the field of economics, but you have neglected to mention other efficiency models, several others of which are probably more relevant to consideration of Apple's Boot Camp strategy. Here are some better links:

    Economic Efficiency in a Nutshell (efficiency described in an abstract, mostly model-independent way)

    Economic Efficiency (links to descriptions of various models)

    Pereto Efficiency doesn't have much to say about efficiency in the global scope, and consequently doesn't have as much to say about things like this as would, say, some other allocative efficiency model. It's premise is interesting as an analytical tool, but also somewhat fantastic. In the local universe it assumes, allocations that transfer wealth or other valuable resources from you to me would not normally be regarded by you as a non-event, and I regard transfer of non-valuable items from you to me as a liability, so this model has limitations in real world application from the outset, even with limited scope.

    Furthermore, economists also understand that real world markets typically are not all that efficient. If they were, then the hundreds of billions of hours spent futzing with Windows PC systems would have led to the ascendancy of Mac OS X as the dominant computing platform back when it was called NeXTSTEP. In the real world, those futzing hours are not measured, and represent an identifiable inefficiency in the market.

    Most economists also understand that efficiency is inherently a value judgement, and even the criteria by which efficiency is measured and even modeled involves value judgments.

    Economic Efficiency (considered as the basis for society)

    Of course, I studied economics for four years at a university, and still regard the entire field of micro-economics with considerable skepticism, so take my observations with a grain of salt. Perhaps it is politicians rather than economists who are to blame for willful misuse of the tools. However, failure to understand the limitations of a given economic analysis tool allows voters to be snowed into supporting all manner of initiatives which are, on the whole, not in their individual nor collective self-interest.
    --
    If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
  55. Preaching to the choir by Saint+Fnordius · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know, I know, it's hard to resist, but the post you replied to wasn't stating those as reasons per se, but as reasons MSWindows users tell themselves why they haven't switched. It all really boils down to "I've invested all this time and money on Windows. If I get a Mac, then I'm admitting that I made a mistake."

    I think the main reason people still use Windows is that it's good enough. Sure, it's not as great as you'd like, but it's the devil you know. Besides, everybody else uses it, so it can't be that bad, can it?

    (disclaimer: I own and prefer Apple computers)

  56. Suckers? I don't think so. by DanCentury · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tricked sure, but I wouldn't call the trickees "suckers". "Suckers" implies the person is getting screwed over or taking a loss, which is not the case here. Being tricked into using Mac OS X is like being tricked into being a millionare or being tricked into being married to Jessica Alba, or something awesome like that.

    And Frozen Bubble is available for Mac OS X, so I don't know what all the fuss about games not being available for the Mac is all about.