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Carmack Considers Cell Phone MMOG
fistfullast33l writes "John Carmack's new cell phone game Orcs and Elves, which debuted at E3 to some fanfare, has led the famous developer to think about expanding his mobile gaming presence. Carmack said in an interview with CNN that he is interested in a massively multiplayer sequel. 'I have absolutely no interest in going and competing with Blizzard in the high end of that market, but a cell phone version might be interesting,' Carmack is quoted as saying. Even more interesting is his comment in the interview that game engines really overlook security. The article indirectly quotes him as saying 'while id Software is especially careful to lock down its game engines, companies that license and make changes to those engines often aren't as focused, which could open the door to disaster.'"
A cell phone MMO is great and all but what about the cost of data?
Last time I checked it cost a small fortune per KB. I know you can get unlimited bandwith for a price, but that would be a price ontop of the monthly subscription price...Excellent Phoenix AZ Office Space - Thistle Landing
You know game design trends have gone bad when you have to develop for a limited platform in order to have an accepted excuse to create a low end game these days.
With the exceptions of SubSpace and Solar Wolf, all the "Small but Fun" games I've seen lately have been written in Flash, and run inside a web browser.
tasks(723) drafts(105) languages(484) examples(29106)
A PSP has a better graphic hardware, a wider screen, is easier to handle and has WiFi support.
If only WiFi was a little more widespread I'm pretty sure a MMOG for the PSP (or the Nintendo DS) would be a much better idea. I'd finally had something to do each time I have to spend 1 hour in the subway.
I know Carmack wasn't going after the WOWs of the world, but the possibility occurred to me that it might be cool to have a cell phone client for a PC virtual world - perhaps affecting the world in non-traditional ways.
Would you like to mash a few cell phone buttons to craft yourself something nifty for your return home?
How about an opportunity to influence factors that aren't controllable through the PC, like beasts or items? For example, play a beast vs. beast minigame against other cell phone users, and the winner will recieve more power or loot in the PC world or something like that.
As an alternative input device, the cell phone has some interesting possibilities. If you consider cell phones equipped with GPS, you could conceivably have a very interesting dynamic to the gameplay based on actual location. I see many possibilities for making this a fun gaming tool rather than the minesweeper handheld it is today.
I talked to the head of a mobile game company just yesterday about this very topic - since I think any well made persistent world game on a mobile platform would be a winner. His issue was that marketeers always think this kind of thing is possible because the gprs standard seems to show enough data transfer speed to support it. Unfortunately its never the case in real world situations. Unless he is planning to run it over the DoCoMo network or some other proper 3g network it aint gonna happen.
I see. We can run a MMORG over dialup, but we can't run one over the cellular network.
The DS would be a better platform of MMOGs. You'd still need a Wifi connection somewhere, but to play an MMOG on the cell phone would be kind of cumbersome.
Unless of course it was turn based...
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
Cellphone MMORPG:
Tibia Micro Edition
If I clone myself, can I call it a thread?
If a girl winks to us, can I call it a race condition?
This should inspire some great anti-social behavior on public transit systems when someone starts screaming "Die you !@#$% orc! Die! Die!" into their cell phone. I wonder how many people know that ORC != Terrorist and how many gamers will be beaten senseless enroute to the police station.
Leave it John Carmack. I think this could be huge if he does it right. Most phone providers offer an internet plan with unlimited transfers, now. Many of them have the high speed internet now, too (Sprint and Verizon's EVDO).
'while id Software is especially careful to lock down its game engines'
m l
http://www.insecure.org/sploits/quake.backdoor.ht
P.
Anyone try these games? Are they decent (well as far as cell games go.) I see I can download them on my Verizon cell phone, but only if I pony up $8. I hate it when they don't offer trials.
who the heck would spend hours playing on a tiny screen with a cramped up keyboard? A nice idea, an MMO you could play anywhere, but the reality is unless the play intervals are 5-15 min the best place to play will be at home...
LOG OFF AND DRIVE!
I expect it to be all the rage at mall kiosks and gun shows.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
just to set the record straight about "locking down security", the quake (1) engine had the one single most hacker friendly console of any game before or after period. you could execute almost any shell command on any of the remote machines. this didn't even require any cracks or exploits, it was just built like this - to be a winnuke. which is not to say that it was a bad thing. say, you think someone is hacking or griefs too much. well, you could ban him, but how about wiping half the files off his hard drive instead? so much more effective.
Jesus said to his disciples: "If you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one" - Luke 22:36
The biggest problem with multiplayer games on mobile platforms is communication. Being able to chat with other people is an important part of the experience. Otherwise, you're just being charged more to play a single-player game.
I own and operate the online game Meridian 59. The game was released nearly 10 years ago, and the original client used a raycaster type engine similar to the original DOOM games. (We have since upgraded the engine to use 3D hardware acceleration on the PC.) It's often been suggested that we put the game on the mobile platform since the system requirements are so low.
Unfortunately, there are several problems. First, avatar customization is huge, and it takes a lot of resources to do that properly. Even modest Meridian 59 installs to about 100 MB. You'd have to do a lot of severe compression to get it to work right.
And, as stated above, you don't have good communication. Ironic, since you're usually using a phone. But, if you use voice you'll be taking up part of the bandwidth you need for sending data for the game. As someone else pointed out in comments, most phones won't support the data throughput and response you need for this type of game.
In the U.S., you also have the typical problems associated with mobile gaming. I have a fairly recent phone, but it still doesn't play most of the games out there. Most people can't afford the phones that keep them on the "cutting edge" and able to play these types of games. Why buy an expensive phone to play a crippled version of a game? Less users means that you'll have to increase the price in order to still make enough money to justify doing the phone version instead of a full-blown PC or console version.
So, there's a reason why you don't see these types of games on mobile. Perhaps eventually we'll get to the point where we have good networks and proper phones, but not anytime in the near future.
My thoughts,
Brian "Psychochild" Green
MMO developer's blog
I can play WoW On my cellphone now (well, play is a bit of an exaggeration, but it works and you can chat etc.) with a Treo650 + Mergic VPN + PalmVNC controlling my desktop PC.
But honestly if someone makes an addictive real-time multiuser type game for a phone then people are going to die as they try to play while driving.
G.
I disagree about chat being integral to multiplayer games, MarioKart DS doesn't have it at all and it's still very good fun. And it's not unusual to go through a duel in Unreal Tournament without exchanging more than a single "gg" when it's done, but it's still very exciting.
For traditional MMOs(/MUDs/etc) I suppose it is very important, but in games which are enjoyable singleplayer going multiplayer even without chat adds to the fun.
I've always enjoyed finding holes in games,
CounterStrike had a bug for a short while that could be used to crash everyone connected to a server, just by changing your name to a printf string.
another smaller (non commercial) game you could gamble for credits, 1 in 3 chance of doubling your bet amount. by betting negative numbers you would gain more than lost; by betting -1000000000000 I caused an overflow that dropped a user into a shell, from whence I could read the full password list.
I know I play my cell phone games while on the toilet...
So, I'm sitting on the airplanes toilet, 36,000 feet into the air playing CS Cell Phone Edition, yelling, "Die Terrorist Die!".
Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
Would like to see tie-ins for some online games.
Eve for example has alot of little things that ones does not need a graphical interface for.
While I belive there is some sort of cell phone work in progress I have not looked into it in awhile.
Check my characters ingame mail and reply to corperate/guild events in near realtime. (yes go ahead and declare war, no dont use my battleship!)
check character skills and change them if need be. (eve skills are learned in realtime-logged in or not)
check/change factory building orders
check/change buy/sell orders.
all of these should be able to do easily from a webby interface(the check skill is already but not change)
for WoW lessee... start your character in the login queue, so that hours later after you bus/train/carjam ride home,you might be able to log straight in?
- Gronk!
This is just going to expand. Already, kids view their phones as more necessary than any other form of personal technology (and that includes their ipods). They are almost obsessive with them - checking constantly for missed calls, text messages...they are loathe to even purchase a calculator for classes, arguing that their phones have builit-in calculator functions. It would be natural to extend their gaming desires to the one piece of equipment they would never be caught without. Guess I'd rather have that progress with Carmack putting his neurons into the works than without, but I am not looking forward to the increased number of phones I'm going to have to confiscate off of high schoolers...
I realize it's from an AC, but it should be given it's due.
I am glad that security has become an issue for id now, as the AC has pointed out, this wasn't always so. I still remember that night the RCON exploit was discovered. As I was playing Quake the server blipped for a second. I got back on, checked Gamespy, and found that the name of every Quake server on the Internet had been changed.
Oh the fur that flew then...
mr.nobody
--Don't you wanna go where nobody knows your name?
I've been exploring this idea quite a bit. The basic notion is one of asymmetrical representation of the game world. Each client, be it cell phone, DS, PSP, web-browser, next gen console or PC has it's own unique view of and interface with the game world. Each plays to the strengths of the particular platform.
It's a huge investment, but a large company that really wants to build a cohesive brand *cough - Blizzard* could pull this off.
AR Across Platforms
And in an even more heretical proposition, I also suggest that (MMOs being largely database apps) users be given an API to write their own clients, creating a MOD community for MMOs that largely surpasses what can be done today.
Open.World
And why stop there? Next we move onto cohesive universes, where not only are the clients different, but people are playing different but linked games. To use the Blizzard example, you play in the Star Craft universe. Some players are playing the RTS (at a tactical level), issuing troop orders to people playing the BF2-style FPS. Meanwhile, in areas that they have established control, other players are building cities, while others are living and trading in them.
Towards a Better World
Anybody want to play?
What were you expecting?
carmack was only \mildly\ pissed when the q2 engine was 'taken blatently' for HalF-LifE... he took the time to explain that in order to use the eingine, you have to change the engine ITSELF... hmmm... is he ASKING for that?
{If the world was as simple as a computer, we would think in rational databases.}