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Pact Not to Use Image Constraint Token Until 2010?
Devlin C. writes "Ars Technica reports that many major movie studios and several consumer electronics companies have an unofficial pact not to use the controversial Image Constraint Token in movies until at least 2010, presumably in an effort to spur early adoption. As the article at Ars notes, this would explain why both
the low-end PS3 and the Xbox360 lack HDMI. The companies think it's not necessary to have right now, and they would rather shave costs than sell future-proof hardware."
This is why it's important to not buy DRM-crippled hardware NOW, even if there is presently a workaround available.
At first blush this may seem a happy development, and it will have been if it contributes to the ulimate demise of any future Image Constraint Token or consideration thereof in the future.
I predict one of two things:
Of course, we'll all be on point and have been handed yet one more piece of a puzzle to understand (I read the article, I'm not totally sure it makes sense to me) and be able to guide friends and family to informed decisions about what equipment to buy and how to make it work. (To friends and family: "You'll have to make sure the TV and player you buy has HDMI so you'll get to see the pretty pictures. No, wait!, You might not need HDMI afterall. Of course, you'll have to have it by the year 2010.") I'm pretty close to recommending people who have working equipment to stay with what they have. (Of course, that recommendation has the pitfall of putting them in harm's way when suddenly new transmissions and DVDs they've been persuaded to buy don't work with what they have.)
The entertainment industry has successfully lobbied to enact laws to satisfy their need to control this technology, and now they're showing they can't even manage that!
Seems like I'm ending most of my posts the same way these recent days...:
Sigh.
Well, I don't see how this is a security feature if we can still copy what we're watching with just a lower quality 960x540(which is 540p btw). I think 960x540 is decent quality and nothing to cry about.
http://www.secondact.biz/product.aspx?productid=HL -R5078W
This is just an example that future-proof technology exists today, and can be had for cheap. I'm saddened to see both the cheap version of the PS3 and the 360 crippled without HDMI, but now the tag won't get used until 2010, and perhaps never. I feel a lot more comfortable about the $500 PS3 now honestly, and in 2010 if I need to buy another PS3, they should be in the $200 range or less by then.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
I don't trust this "agreement" at all, I think it only lasts until they think they have the dominant format so if they feel enough people have already moved to the new format by 2008 then they'll pull the plug on the pact at that time. It's just a manipulative tool to get consumers to be comfortable before they can pull the rug out from under them and implement their DRM. I swear I don't "steal" music or movies online but the way they treat me as if I'm a criminal, I might as well. At least then there'd be some justification for the way I get treated as a consumer.
"Plans are for fools! Oglethorpe, the plutonian (Aqua Teen Hunger Force)
"This is why it's important to not buy DRM-crippled hardware NOW, even if there is presently a workaround available."
Not purchasing or downloading in the first place and letting the content producer know why would have prevented this train from even leaving the station. Now we have all that and more just because some people couldn't control themselves. I hope you all are happy? Spoiled it for everyone else.
plain and simple: they are waiting for the next big thing to spur the sales (read this as: MATRIX)
having this not enabled means a shitload of sales when a hit hits the market... plus, the advantage of having nobody even tried to hack it, due the simple fact that it didn't have been activated....
uargh
Anyway, this is anti-piracy crap and the problem with anti-piracy is that it only hurts the non-pirates. It has already been shown that the next generation copy-protections for movies can be broken. There are some mighty clever people out there who get a thrill out of doing this and not all of them live in countries that could give a shit if some hollywood studio claimes it looses billions.
Back to silly console business. The Wii is not HD and that is defended because not enough people will have HD tv's for this console generations lifespan. The low end PS3 does not have HD and is slammed for not being future proof?
This is one reason I stopped reading game reviews, because I started to notice that reviewers never heard of consistency. They would slam game A for being X and then slam game B for not being X.
Is the computer industry that immature that we can't at least attempt to judge all things equally?
Either HDMI is important or it isn't. Make up your mind. No I don't get the low end PS3 move either. Yes I am familiar with the way fastfood places offer small medium and large so that the medium looks like the better deal. However the PS3 ain't being pushed as a McD coke. At its price it is supposed to be a fine cuisine served at a top restaurant. One way to tell a good restaurant from a fast food place is the lack of supersizing.
Oh well, lets continue the endless console debate. Were we slam the console we don't like for not having the features the console we like doesn't have either.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
..how is anyone supposed to COPY and pirate HD video in the first place through non-HDCP DVI interfaces?
In other words, what problem is ICT supposed to solve? Are there pirates out there right now stealing from DVI signals?
Also, can't will just convert everything to unencrypted analog and digitize the output. D-A and A-D conversion these days should be no different from a direct digital connection on short-length Component video cables. And, when ICT is finally introduced, they'll just digitize the monitor output by placing a camera in front of it, or digitizing the signals going to the framebuffer or display.
Eventually there's going to be a leak of the device keys, like what happened to CSS, and encrypytion of all previous AACS discs are defeated. Although future AACS discs can ban these leaked device keys, a new set of device keys will be leaked. Especially in software decrypters. This is because the AACS doesn't actually define a PHYSICAL secret device key spec, and so these new device keys are going to be continuously leaked as they disassemble software decoders or read EPROMs. I suspect there's going to be a lot of banned devices in the MKB of AACS.
It's always going to be this cat-and-mouse game...
I can imagine it being controversial indeed.
+1 Giggletypo
What exactly is the correleation between lack of HDMI and ICT usage?
HDMI according to Wikipedia is an interface, and ICT is one of the AACS guidelines that limits resolution depending on the carrier used (if it is not capable of secure transmission).
Also, XBOX has a high-definition output, so I don't see your point. What is missing is the HDCP (High Definition Content Protection) which is a DRM for HDMI developed by Intel.
As far as the PS3 goes, I'm not sure, but according to this it will also have an HDMI interface.
"the entertainment, as hinted in the article, will get cold feet an renege on what turns out to be a gentleman's agreement only, and goes ahead with the ICT anyway."
Sony has already said they won't use it, and they have plenty of reason to follow up on that, given that they will be selling HDMI-less players.
If some or most movies play just fine over component, but some don't, the publisher of those that don't will take it in the butt in the marketplace. People just won't buy their discs, because they suspect they won't be able to play them.
So I figured that the agreement will hold for a while at least.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
I have not purchased any hardware or any content nor downloaded any which I am unable to make copies of.
... you were saying? What, are you new here or something? Have you somehow missed the 100 thousand freaking Slashdot posts criticizing DRM?
If copy-ability is not provided, as it has always been provided with content in the past, then I don't want that content or hardware with such reduced-functionality, period.
Oh, and I have let the companies know very well how I feel, by spouting off regularly in fora such as Slashdot or in the companies' own blogs, and through emails to those companies, along the lines of, "Hey, I was all set to purchase your ____________, but you crippled it with DRM and therefore I chose not to." They have lost tens of thousands of dollars of sales just to me, much less the millions or more in sales they have lost to others who take this same path.
In fact, I have seen hundreds of other folks declaring their choices, too. So
That's how the drug dealers round here work, and they're making good money. Should work for the movie industry too.
They'll be hoping that, by 2010, there won't be any of the old non-DRM hardware still in use.
This is exaclty the tactics drug dealers use to hook addicts. First you let the idiots have the stuff at near to no cost, and try yo make sure they won't find out what the real cost is until they are well and truly hooked. Then you can do what you like with them, make them pay any price you like, make as much profit from them as you like.
They know you won't go for this if you see up front what the final cost will be. They are dishonest, dishonorouble and decietful. And in my opinion illegal, as they seek to remove your fair rights. I don't advocate copyright violation, but I do oppose the draconian restrictions that these overlords are trying to impose by stealth.
Realistically, if few players are going to support this interface anytime soon, agreement or no agreement, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot to release videos that downgrade video that doesn't go over the interface.
My guess is that people buying videos won't know anything about he technologies involved just like now, but they *will* notice if some of their DVDs look like crap. A studio that puts out crappy looking videos is going to hurt their bottom line. People will figure, hey, why not just get the DVD cheaper instead of the HDDVD since it doesn't seem to be much better quality?
All this noise that the studios make about implementing these technologies with end to end encryption is pretty rediculous. The market at large is not concerned one way or the other with their anti piracy initiatives, but they do notice when the their equipment isn't compatible. There's already so little incentive to buy some new expensive DVD player that only makes a difference on HDTVs that no one has anyway that the industry fiddling with the standard at the last minute like this might kill HDDVD and HDTV altogether.
The public at large could easily forget about upgrading to the next generation. The current tv format has lasted a long time and could last much longer. That really doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world to me... I'm really pretty iffy on how dropping a couple of grand on the new equipment would improve my life in any measurable way.
this DRM debate brings up soe legal issues. The companies like sony and MS are framing digital files as property, and saying that copies of files infringe on their "rights" to the files. here is the fundamental problem. law defined property as a bundle of rights that the law will enforce. if you think about it, property is nothing more then the things you can or cannot do with what you own. For example you can own a gun, but you cant use it to shoot people 9except in self defense), or you can own a home, but you cant set up a gas station on it if the area is zoned for residential. The same principle generally applies to all electronic files. What bundle of rights belong to the companies that produce content and waht rights belong to users is defined by LAW, not by some mystical or anchient system. Because electronic media as we know it today is so new, most courts have not really defined what rights property owners hold (users and content owners alike). So we are really in a crucial time right now, with the media companies trying to corner the courts into giving them more rights then the end user. DRM is a part of this, and people should be aware that whether DRM or any control system is legal or not is still up in the air since the courts have not yet determined what property rights users actually have in this new age of content. just my 2 cents -I'm an L2
Fool me once...shame on you, fool me twice...won't be fooled again (our president)
...they would rather shave costs than sell future-proof hardware.
Isn't this an implicit admission that piracy isn't as big a deal as they've been screaming at us?
I got my Linux laptop at System76.
like this....
http://www2.foxsearchlight.com/theringer/
in non crippled HD.....
YAY!!!!!! no really.....
the should worry less about image tokens and more about not making crappy movies
on the other hand they are making it easier for me to say no to DRM since there is almost nothing i wanna listen to or watch right about now.
actually I am happy to see you, however that is in fact a banana in my pocket.
Okay, off with the funky glasses. Since when do they want to sell you future-proof hardware when they can sell you a whole new unit then?? I'm surprised they aren't made to break more!
The past few weeks have been fun to watch for those of us who have known about this for some time.
:)
$499 PS3
1080p BluRay movies out of the box
1080p games out of the box - about 1/3 to 1/4 of the current crop of PS3 games are running at 1080p
There's a reason why Sony has sold over 200 million console and destroyed everyone else in the market...
The main objectives for movie companies with the new digital distribution formats and HDMI are:
1) Get consumers to re-buy their whole movie collection again in a new format
2) Move all or at least the vast majority of their movie sales for home use to a beter protected format so as to defend themselfs from what they currently percieve as their main competition - sharing of movies via the Internet.
3) Monitize or increase their profits in existing markets (for example: video/DVD rentals) and open new markets (internet distribution) while maintaining or extending their ability to control prices.
4) Increase their share of movie publishing.
DRM is the chosen mechanism by which movie publishers aim to remotelly control, enforce and even change (if an internet connection is available) any rules of their choice on the allowed uses of the movies contained on the media that consumers aquire.
Businesses being businesses, they will naturally use those remote control abilities (pun not intended) to maximize their profits - given their behaviour up to now, this will most likelly include maximizing the amount that consumers pay, up to and including pay-per-single-view.
At the same time, the bigguest part of the movie industry (as measured by sales and also, quite likelly, by lobbying power) consists of old-style, long existing, entrenched businesses - they are aiming to remain dominant beyond the next 5 years and certainly have long term strategies in place to ensure that it will be so.
It is clear to all that, before they can achieve their objectives, massive user adoption of DRM supporting hardware is necessary. Assuming that the main players in the movie industry are indeed engaged in a plan which is only expected to give fruit in a medium to long (5+ years) term, it's hardly surprising that they will start by visibly refraining from exercising the remote control that the newest DRM hardware allows them, if they believe that this will accelerate the transition from the current generation of hardware to the new (strong DRM enabled) generation of hardware.
It should also be pretty obvious, that since they haven't actually signed any contract with any consumers by which they [movie publishers] are obliged to not enable their DRM, this announcement of theirs still leaves open to them the possibility to, at any time and with no penalty to them, change their minds if they believe that the market penetration of the newest DRM enable hardware has passed the point beyond which said hardware has become the de facto standard.
In other words, their promises are as worthless as the paper they are written in.
If they don't plan on phasing the tech in until 2010 then it doesn't really matter if the new consoles support it. Given the 5-year product cycle that consoles run on, when they start using the flag, it'll be just about time to get the next generation of consoles.
my sig's at the bottom of the page.
If you're looking for a broad approach to video game (and movie and music) reviews, check out: www.metacritic.com
They take reviews from many sites, "equalize" them (puts them on a 100point scale), then produces a weighted average (based on biases which the editors feel the reviewers make that need to be compensated for-ie if a reviewer generally gives favorable reviews to most games his/her score will be adjusted).
I tend to find that this produces fairly good results. Your mileage may vary but its worth checking out.
Nintendo isn't pricing their system as anything other than a cheap gaming system.
Sony has full support for 1080p TVs for both gaming and movie playback. And the 499 PS3 clearly was created with the knowledge that the HD/HDMI requirement was not going to see the light of day this decade.
But Microsoft is now sitting there with an expensive console that has no HD format support out of the box and can't handle 1080p regardless. It is hard to see how Microsoft and the 360 aren't completely fucked.
Who the hell would be crazy enough to spend 399 on a 360 outside of the most diehard Xbox fans?
Once software HD-DVD players come out won't this whole thing become moot. I mean are they really going to get the software to check whether your monitor is connected through an HDCP compatible link just to play a dvd.
I am sure that five years from now most of the people who are interested enough in HD-DVD will just get an inexpensive 1080p or higher LCD with a decent computer and not have to bother with B.S. And even if there are software HDCP issues, I am sure it won't be hard to break by going on the net.
It's very simple - they learned that people don't want DRM, won't buy DRM. So, sell them something without DRM. Don't mention DRM. Then, years down the road when the tech is intrenched, when it's the standard, flip your little secret DRM switch.
This is literally an industry that has decided to screw its customers. Fuck them.
This space available.
The original xbox could push 1080i (although very few games used it because the power just wasn't there). However there are plenty of 720p games.
The Wii should be at least twice as fast as the original xbox, I see no reason why games shouldn't be able to push 720p.
Just because Nintendo's not getting into the HD wars, doesn't mean their console won't be HD capable.
I read a very good blog post doing a simple license disection showing how much power the studios with the Image Constraint Token and the Analog Sunset. This means educating consumers now regarding this ticking timebomb.
From the entry:
The provisions of Section 1.7.1 stipulate that any AACS licensed machine such as a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player providing any analog, hence digitally unprotected, interface to be updated via a download after December 31, 2010 to degrade the signal from one-quarter 540p signal down to 480i. Even today's DVD players output higher quality 480p signal to capable video displays. The consumer is being asked to willingly pay these companies for a model of planned obsolescence where we will have to come back to purchase another player in the future even if our current player isn't broken. In other words, consumers are expected to pay for a set of features today that will be eliminated in short order to guarantee a revenue stream. For example, how many people would purchase a car at full sticker price from a manufacturer stipulating an artificial limit on how many miles it could be driven per day in two years without informing the customer? Not many. To call this an abomination would be an understatement.
For all the Sony hate on /. it should be noted that Sony has said they won't do region encoding with Blu-Ray.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
OTOH, most (non-fanboi) people buy hardware for what they can do with it, not for what it is. If you just want to play games, Wii or 360 or is better value than something that makes you pay for HD movie hardware too. If you want HD games and movies, the low-end PS3 is a good option - but only so long as the studios stick to their "gentleman's agreement" - if it even exists - and leave off the ICT flag.
Fact is, unless you get a high-end PS3, then at the whim of the MPAA you could suddenly find your "value" games+HD-movies PS3 becomes good for games+DVDs only, and not such good value as you thought.
Personally I'd rather wait a while, and buy a standalone player in whatever HD format eventually wins. Prices will be cheaper then anyway, so I'll save money, there'll be more movies available and I'll feel a lot more secure about my purchase too. Putting oneself at the mercy of the MPAA is just begging for trouble.
BTW, buying a PS3 as a cheap Linux homebrew media box I can understand - but not until when/if those homebrew media apps actually exist. Until then, it's just a box of spare parts.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
If any company started selling "future proof" hardware, they would put themselves out of business.
00010111 always try everything twice
There are something like 7,000 HD-DVD players on the market total. Not models, that is total units. Sony said they will have a million PS3's out each month when they launch.
I'd bet the cost of a PS3 that inclusion in the PS3 alone will make it the forwat winner. Does a studio want to release on a platform with 10,000 players, or 3 million players?
And given that Sony is a major movie studio in their own right with some decent clout, I don't see them shooting themselves in the foot. Maybe I am naive, but I believe they will hold to the agreement and implement the tag in 2010 (at the soonest). It makes for a good selling point in the near future. Retail stores will have time to push all new consumers to TVs with HDMI. I expect market penetration of HDTV to be pretty solid by then.
As far as games go, each generation is different. Sega was a giant, and then gone the next minute. All that being said, while I used to have very fond memories of Nintendo, I was greatly disappointed by both the N64 and Cube. Both had piss-poor third party support, and very few games in general. Multiplatform games often looked the worst on the Cube (save for RE4 and Soul Caliber 2).
I'm sure Nintendo will put out some solid first-party games for the Wii. Will third-party developers properly take advantage of the controller? Will they bother developing many titles in the first place?
The reality is that since the days of the NES, Nintendo has lost market share with each new generation (SNES, N64 and Cube). Furthermore, their business model for years has been to rehash sequels to the same properties, and rerelease games. Their big selling point on the Wii is that I can purchase old games YET AGAIN!
No thanks. I'll go the emulation route on my hacked XBox and PC. I bought NES games rereleased on the SNES, and then again on the GBA. At the moment, the Wii has one must-own title that I can see (Super Mario Galaxy). I will not buy a console for one title. I made that mistake with the Cube and Zelda. I am also a little bitter that the Cube never once got a proper Mario title in the entire life of the console.
Meanwhile, both Microsoft and Sony have arguably 5-10 must-own titles a piece that we've seen. I think Nintendo will regain some market share on price-point alone, but I don't know that I will buy one unless I see games that truly warrant it.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
In the article, ATI says they will introduce products supporting DisplayPort in 2007. Note that DisplayPort, like HDMI, is supposedly backwards-compatible with DVI. It better be easy to hook up an DisplayPort video player to an HDMI television without losing the ability to play HDCP content.
TO START
PRESS ANY KEY
Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...
From TFA In the meantime, it appears as though Hollywood is playing it safe, hoping to keep the boogeyman of HDMI at bay while consumers weigh their options. Whether or not the strategy is ultimately about keeping users happy or lulling them into a false sense of security remains to be seen, but we're fairly certain that ICT was designed to be used, and used it will be.
It seems to me that the issue isn't any of those stated, its about sales. First most 'consumers' don't know the differences between the standards, and any improvement seems good enough, so they are buying the cheapest improvement they can - that only makes sense. The standards are not in play enough to enforce a change across the buying public. The US government is still working to force all users to switch to digital television. Until that happens, joe public won't give a damn. There is only a small portion of the unwashed masses that even cares. Many of them think big screen == high definition still.
My experience is that if it says HD on it, joe public thinks its the shiznitz, they really don't care, and don't want to earn a EE degree to figure it out. Sony et al are cutting their own throats until they can convince the FCC and joe public that the 'thing they want' is 1080p and BR or whatever they decide on, as if they will ever be able to decide on something.
That may well be a cynical view, but it is the impression I get from various encounters. I have a SideKick phone, and the number of people that don't even know what it is (is that one of them blueberry's?) or what it can do is totally amazing. Trying to get even the technically savvy to understand that buying HD is difficult decision is crazy. One friend told me of spending 2500 on an HD setup (and he's happy with it) and I asked him what resolution it was.... he wasn't sure. What most people know about the technical details of what they buy is what they learned from the 18 year old salesman... who makes a commission on the sale... ya, that's working out well.
Any gentlemen's agreement is about setting the marketplace up so they can make money on the formats, and not kill their bottom line with product that isn't selling because of misinformation on the part of joe public. There is no technical reason, its all about the money. If HD products were selling, LALAwood and DVD/TV makers would very quickly work out any details in a short but sharp format war. This is all about sales, and no content provider is getting on board until the hardware makers "show 'em the money". 14 million copies of a DRM'ed movie are a liability if there is nobody to buy them. Hell, 14 million copies of a movie is a liability if there is nobody buying them even if they don't have DRM.
How may people here (raise your hands) have the capability to do more than 5.1 surround? There are better/improved sound systems... but what's the point, if your ears can't tell the difference in the money you spent? Its going to take some real education to get joe public to understand what the difference is, and then to get him to appreciate it enough to spend the extra money. Its all about the money.
Support NYCountryLawyer RIAA vs People
The whole purpose of the tag is to force people to buy new hardware, plain and simple.
exactly.
if someone wants a hi-def dvd player now, they'll buy one "sans-chip" -- then in three years time (give or take), if they want to watch new hi-def dvd releases, they'll need to buy *another* hi-def dvd player (with the "chip").
it's all about forced obsolescence. this should not be a new concept to anyone, the pc industry has been subject to it since day one.
does the gamecube vga lead use the "digital" port?
note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
This is all about control of the medium - NOT PIRACY!!!! The laws simply do NOT address piracy. Laws are already on the books that deal with piracy. The new laws do not change this. Most piracy comes from _within_ the entertainment industry anyway. Every new 'leaked' CD that comes out never came from a store bought and ripped CD.
Wake up folks. This is about preventing independant content makers from having access to a high quality cheap distribution mechanism (i.e., The Internet). Todays production equipment costs are plummeting. Any independant content maker has no excuse not to be able to create his masterpiece.
So today an independant content provider could make a high quality movie, produce it and distribute it for next to nothing (compared to the "old" way of using 35mm film). His costs are hiring actors and his blood, sweat, and tears in shooting, mixing, producing, etc.
**AA is shitting themselves over THIS! NOT PIRACY. They are slimey little devils. They will do _anything_ and use _any_ excuse to prevent any new production and distribution model that doesn't 'deal' them in.
-- Mean People Suck
"The Wii is not HD and that is defended because not enough people will have HD tv's for this console generations lifespan. The low end PS3 does not have HD and is slammed for not being future proof?"
Dude, the Wii will be $200-250, the PS3 will be $500-600. Nobody is slamming the PS3 because of a lack of hard drive, the criticism is that the PS3 has a Blue-Ray drive, but it may not be able to use it in a meaningful way because it lacks the magic port required to encrypt the data stream on the way to the monitor. So why bother with a blu-ray drive to begin with if it can't be used? Sit back, close your eyes and visualize what I'm typing here.
I don't mean to talk to you like you're an idiot, but do the math on the price. No really. Do the f*cking math and then ask the question again. Then you'll hit "CANCEL" because you'll realize what's going on here.
Sheesh. You're like the guy driving 50 MPH in the LH lane and then say everybody is crazy because they're passing on the right.
It sounds like this is a very obvious attempt to sneak DRM-laced units into 80% of consumers' living rooms, then they "throw the switch" and suddenly almost everyone's hardware is crippled. There ought to be a law that the manufacturer can't cripple your product after you've purchased it... they should get sued for destruction of private property.
But then that's getting back to the completely retarded idea of how manufacturers want to sell you something, and still be the one in control over and owner of it. That's how we got this thing called "licensing". The most ideal situation might be getting licensing declared illegal, that'd be a nice trick but would help the consumer on so many fronts.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
"This is all about control of the medium - NOT PIRACY!!!! The laws simply do NOT address piracy. Laws are already on the books that deal with piracy. The new laws do not change this. Most piracy comes from _within_ the entertainment industry anyway. Every new 'leaked' CD that comes out never came from a store bought and ripped CD."
Well see now, piracy and spam have one thing in common. There wouldn't be a problem if there weren't users. There can be all the spam (piracy) produced "leaked". But as long as there are consume-rs, there will be a problem. Of course the slash-irony is that in the case of spam, we blame the ones buying the products, while in the case of piracy, we blame someone "leaking" the content. The only ones that don't "get it", are the ones that will never admit that humanity is weak, and will always blame others for their weaknesses.
I say that DRM is the studio's plan to have perpetual copyright. Think of it this way: it is, now and until the law is removed, a violation of the DMCA to unscramble CSS. So, when the copyright on Steamboat Willie (or any other DVD-released movie) expires, the studios will have a (potential) hook by which they can prevent transformative reuse of that footage: unlawful decryption of the video.
Now, this isn't to downplay the other, equally nasty, anti-consumer aspects of Rights Manglement, but I do fear that our children and children's children will have no right to read!Do you like Japanese imports?
I predict the next-gen console wars to start in 2010.
I think you woefully overestimate the intelligence and market sway of the average consumer.
What the whole ICT issue is going to do is create an extra upgrade cycle: everybody will get on the HD bandwagon now, and in a few years they'll roll out HDCP, and in order to watch new content, people will get new televisions.
This works well for the electronics manufacturers, because they get another shot at replacing a good chunk of the public's equipment in a few years, and although it slows the studios getting total content control by a few years, they'll still get what they want in the end.
Particularly because I don't expect the MPAA et al. to be idle in the meantime before the ICT rollout. On the contrary: I suspect they'll be watching the non-HDCP HD rollout very closely, and tallying up ridiculous numbers of dollars lost to "piracy" and "home copying", so that when HDCP comes, it won't just come from the studios, it'll have the full weight of Congress behind it.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
DRM has NEVER been about protecting the consumers rights under copyright law. DRM has all been about limiting what a consumer can do with a purchacsed media.
The **AA groups don't care about consumers, they only care about money, and any way to make people buy multiple copies is a good thing, from their prospective.
If I have nothing to hide, don't search me
I'm not getting into either new format because of the hubris of the media industry to think they can artificially cripple the hardware. I have a nice HDTV, but it doesn't have the precious HDMI input, so I will be affected by this ICT flag. Am I just supposed to trust the media companies who "promise" not to use this for a while? I don't think so.
--- witty signature
It stands for Restrictions IMHO.
A blatant bait and switch maneuver. Customers will upgrade pre-2010 because they can still do everything they can with their current units. Then, by 2010, the old units will be off the market and we'll have no use to keep using the crippled units as they lock down all the content.
Imagine the average Joe buys and HD player now that doesn't have HDMI. He's not going to notice the difference. He's going to buy HD DVDs and watch them like normal until 2010. When he goes and buys yet another HD-DVD from Wal-Mart, pops it in his player and it either a doesn't work or b looks like crap. He's not going to know what the problem is so he's going to return it for another one which will also not work. Now imagine this happening at all Rental Stores and Retail stores. They are going to lose a LOT of oney just replacing disks with DRM on it. Then once they find out how they've been screwed we may finally have our mass public outcry against DRM.
This is a really interesting situation. If they use the flag now, they will hinder early adoption and not be able to use the installed base of non-HDMI TV-s.
But here's the deal: the average consumer doesn't know or care what the hell that flag is, and does it exist on this disk or the other, or whether his player is supporting it. He goes to the shop and buys a HD DVD player and has a HDTV. That's it.
People will buy non-HDMI players and tv sets now since they'll work *NOW*. And this pretty much sets up post-2010 disks for a failure. Imagine a crowd returning their disks and players since they are blurred or not working. Why they don't work? People don't care.
Not to mention the whole "protection" has zero value. I live in a small Eastern European country. I have a good income, so when I want to see a movie I happily rent the DVD and enjoy crisp quality and the extra features. If I really want to see the movie I also go to the cinema or buy the DVD.
Thing is, most of the movies (even the bigger movies) don't reach smaller countries, even if they are in some cases blockbusters. I'm pretty much left in the dark unable to legally purchase the movie locally or online (all online movie stores "USA only"). At the same time I'm a frequent Internet user and follow what movies come out, and watch their trailers on apple.com .
So what do I do? I get a crappy camcorder 320x240 copy off bittorent or P2P, just so I know what's up. The quality is crappy the sound is full of noise and there's some Chinese subtitles on it or something.
But that's still working for me since it's better than nothing. So when non-HDMI devices downsample the picture to regular NTSC signal, does it matter for pirating?
Hell no, we're happy to get 1/2 of the NTSC, let alone downloading 30GB HD copy. It's all non-sense.
Maybe the MPAA will screw up like the RIAA did and sign a deal with some small distributor, allowing unlimited production of copies, in some country (like Russia), to promote sales of this new format, who will turn around and make them available online in any format you choose for the price of bandwidth + small admin fee... ala: www.allofmp3.com
A fool throws a stone into a well and a thousand sages can not remove it.
I remember when someone that worked at Circuit City was telling me all about Divix. No not the cool video codec but these new DVDs that only played for like two days. I flat out told them that no one would buy them because it was stupid. Where was the last time you saw one?
Then you had Laser Disks. They where cool, and they had a much better picture than VHS. The problem was that they where expensive and there where multiple incompatible formats.
The we had HDTV... How many people ran out and bought them? Even now the vast majority of TVs are not HDTVs. They are just now getting some traction in the marketplace but 99% of what I watch on TV isn't going to benefit from HDTV.
How you have HD-DVD and Blue Ray. Yawn.....
I really don't know a single person that is going to rush out and buy an HD-DVD anytime soon.
How your telling me that if I go out and spend big bucks on a PS/3 because it is a cheap Blue-Ray DVD player that movies I buy in 2010 probably will not work on it!
Cool sign me up!
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I hope you all are happy?
Why ask us? Only you can answer that question.
2006: authorize/deauthorize computers to access your own files.
2009: get rid of all those pesky control panels and just have users edit c:/config.sys
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I will never buy anything with the thread of Digital Rights reMoval hanging over it.
Why would I let a bunch or greedy capitalists with an outdated business model control the content that I have paid for?
We must all make sure that we do our part in educating the even more stupid masses of the dangers of DRM, and the loss of control over your own content to such greedy faceless scum.
1. Purchase a Blu-Ray DVD
2. Purchase a Sony VAIO with Blu-Ray laptop
3. Create DeICT
4. Rip the movie
5. Burn a movie without the token
There is no passwordless-based encryption method that will be secure forever.
In 5 years, Apex, Daytek and 100 other Chinese electronics manufactures will be selling BluRay/HDDVD/DVD combo players that will ignore ICT/MACROVISION/WHATEVER for $50 at bestbuy. And they'll play any other media format under the sun to boot..
When do I get to file our class action lawsuite against the DRM Cartel?
0) Profit!
DLP, tends to blur pixels and lower res plasma's have sharper images. It's just something I've noticed from all the models available in our store over time (Sam's Club). Most video enthusiasts seem to agree.
If I'm going to get hd i'd rather use a technology which will not only take advantage of the extra pixels but use them in the clearest manner possible.
I just pray that one day LCD's will affordably break the 40 inch barrier.
Hmmm... Pie...
It just doesn't send the signal digitally with HDMI. Games will be outputted in HD for sure although whether game developers decide on 720p or 1080p is a different matter (both are greater then wii's standard resolution of 480p).
Now if this article is correct and no movie makers will release image constrainted discs till 2010 then your movies will also display at full resolution. So you lose nothing at all except the very minor signal distortions that come from not using a digital signal (how many people really notice much of a difference between using a d-pin and dvi for monitors).
By 2010 blu-ray players will cost very little anyway so that doesn't matter.
Hmmm... Pie...
Here's the deal - the whole pact assumes that by 2010 most consumer equipment will support HDMI, thus allowed them to enable this flag...
But if that is not the case they WILL NOT enable the flag or risk loosing many sales. That's why it is important if you are going to buy the PS3 to buy only the $500 model, to send a signal that you have no interest in HDMI. The fewer people support HDMI the longer it will take to turn on this flag, and if the timeframe is long enough no-one will ever enable it because there will be no need.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you don't know about it, you should...
One of the *first* things I did with my new DVD drive (which was this nice, multi-format DVD-DL burning drive that Fry's had on special) was to search on Google for a firmware hack for it. Twenty minutes later, after having discovered the crack for my exact drive version, I had a friendly region zero drive to go with VLC :-)
...
So you're right, it does depend on the drive, but just because most of them are RPC2 does *not* mean that you're stuck with that stupid restriction.
Don't be a corporate tool! Flaunt their insipid restrictions and disable any digital chains they imprison you with!
Heh, my captcha is "honest"
Just a question regarding HDCP and HDMI..
My TV has a DVI input that supports HDCP...is it technically possible to create a HDMI -> DVI converter so that my HDTV does not become worthless junk when they finally turn on the ICT?
Does this mean that there will be HD format DVD players available in the North American market that support component video 1080i out?
Do these entertainment boxes support this?
If so, (and I really don't know), I'll buy. As long as there are also movie discs in HD as well.
Ratboy.
Just another "Cubible(sic) Joe" 2 17 3061
A valid point, but you're assuming that only 3,000 more HD-DVD players will sell by the time Sony sells 3 million PS3s, which they *may* be able to do by Christmas? Very unlikely, IMHO.
Blu-Ray might get larger installed numbers early on due to gamers buying PS3s, but that doesn't necessarily translate into movie sales, especially with the general uncertainty and limited releases about the new formats. And as the cost of standalone players declines, the PS3 will become less & less relevant - DVD players far outnumber PS2s these days.
given that Sony is a major movie studio in their own right with some decent clout, I don't see them shooting themselves in the foot.
Heh, you've forgotten the rootkit fiasco already, where their DRM sabotaged their customers? :-) Sony are capable of anything. And while you may be more trusting, I believe the ICT will be brought back as soon as the market has grown a little - every time the MPAA releases another "piracy cost us $99B" report, the executive pressure will grow. Unless I see real commitment in the form of a press release from all major studios promising no ICT until 2010, I'm not going to put my money on any HD movie-player without HDMI (I do have an HDMI TV).
I think Nintendo will regain some market share on price-point alone, but I don't know that I will buy one unless I see games that truly warrant it.
Fair enough, but I find myself (having never bought a Nintendo product) considering one myself, for the first time, as a second console. The price point looks better in comparison to the nextgens, but the Wiimote is the real distinguishing feature for me. Even my wife, a total non-gamer, is intrigued.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Here's the thing. Plenty of people who work for movie companies are probably pretty clueless when it comes to technology. Sony isn't. The ICT tag and HDMI outputs really don't stop piracy in the least bit. Plenty of companies will push for DRM, but Sony may have the smarts to see through ICT for what it really is. I'm willing to bet that the primary reason the movie companies are backing off ICT right now is because Sony pressured them.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
If the studios are smart, they'll only use ICT on media that isn't for mass consumption. Specifically, piracy happens on preview disks that the general public doesn't get. By only using ICT on these disks, (and not giving the general public an incentive to break it,) the studios make it very difficult to pirate "screener" disks.
No, I will not work for your startup
I think you're overestimating Sony. See "Rootkit fiasco", above.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?