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Student Faces Expulsion for Blog Post
ThPhox writes "A student in the Plainfield School District in New Jersey is facing expulsion from the school district for a post made on his personal blog during non school hours. From the article: "A 17-year-old student who posted on his blog site that he was being bullied and threatened by the Plainfield School District will face an expulsion hearing this week, a local attorney said.""
A 17-year-old student who posted on his blog site that he was being bullied and threatened by the Plainfield School District will face an expulsion hearing this week
Well, if he wasn't being bullied by the school district before, he sure is now. They just proved his argument for him!
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
...it's a good preparation for real life.
Hopefully the school board settles quickly and cans the people. Last thing they want to do is lose all that money they are going to in a clear-cut 1st amendment case....
Expel more people, I say. The pendulum needs to swing back the other way a little bit.
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we weren't using our rights anyways........ dot dot dot
yes and no.
Students have practically no rights when on the premises or using school resources. When off campus however is where the arguments are coming up these days- most would argue students are under normal law when not on school grounds or comitting crimes (making threats, etc) against the school, faculty or other students.
This is nothing new. Most schools, even in areas that are highly "liberal," try to control their students' thoughts and actions to the point of extreme.
Illinois state law says that schools are allowed to act in the best interest of a student, as a parent when the parent is not around (ie, during school days). It does not say schools can discipline students for their thoughts and actions outside of school and not during school time. However, schools are taking it upon themselves to do this regardless.
I find depriving a student of his 1st ammendment rights or his education not in his "best interest."
This must stop. The only way it will happen is having cases like this go to court, and schools finally exposed for what they are doing.
New Jersey doesn't have a monopoly on Plainfields. There are many other Plainfields like it, but this one is mine. ;)
Clue: it's in the CHICAGO Sun-Times.
Further clue: from TFA - "Joliet Police".
I live near there - Plainfield is where the big Tornado disaster occurred about 12-13 years ago.
-- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
We likely don't know all the facts to this story, things can sound very clear cut depending on how you synopsize them, however I think blogs will eventually have to be considered as something between public and private. Various organizations will have to be banned from acting based on any information obtained from them -- perhaps even banned from actively searching them out without legal cause.
Odd how these threats to basic rights seem to come from the Left and the Right equally. Nobody in the extreme can ever stand dissenting opinion.
Letter To Iran
[mother]:"I asked, 'If this is such a serious threat, did you call the FBI?' They said, 'No, we don't have time for this.' I asked, 'Did you call the Joliet police?' and they said, 'no.'"
Don't have time? Don't have time?!
So what you are saying basically is that, rather than going thru the annoying route of reporting to the police, you are just going to expel the kid? I guess the kid's 60 years worth of future is too unimportant compared to your job huh? I mean, we wouldn't want your daily wanking^h^h^h^h^h^h administration sessions be interrupted.
I can't believe this. We are entrusting our childen to these...educators?! No wonder Columbine happened you idiots.
Remember, to a school, there are thousand of students; To a student, however, there is only one school. So please, get it right.
Ironically, one of the books I had to read for high school was "All Quiet on the Western Front". The drill sergeant in the book was a postman prior to the war so he felt the need to abuse the recruits. He knew that outside of his position in the heirarchy, no one respected him as a person so he abused his powers as a drill sergeant to make himself feel better. Reminds me of some school administrators... Sad bastards.
EvilCON - Made Famous by
The kid posted from a non-school computer not on school time. Its his legal right to be able to say what he thinks of the school. Unless the school is being threatened with physical violence they have NO say in what a student does out of school.
I think the problem here is power. During school hours a student is of course a student has to be expected to obey school rules, conform to standards of behaviour, respect staff etc. Unfortunately, the teachers at this school appear to have got it into their heads that this includes complete control over the student's communications. I remember at my old highschool our headteacher once suspended a pupil for having a mohican haircut, despite the school's published unifrom code stating nothing about haircuts. When parents complained she didn't seem to understand why anyone objected to her making up and enforcing rules at will.
The student should be commended for what he did. If he is genuinely being "threatened" and "bullied" by his school then he not only had a right but something of a duty to inform others of that, and yes, he should be in court, but as a plaintiff, not a defendant.
This is legal. Schools are allowed to have dress codes. Schools are allowed to decide what constitutes "non-disruptive" activity to the learning environment.
...his statement (especially with a veiled threat in the name of the Columbine assholes) exudes attitude.
But schools CAN'T dictate what dress the students wear at home, and can't dictate what constitutes "non-disruptive" activity when they are sitting at their dinner tables with their families.
My reading is that the Columbine post was posted AFTER the school threatened expulsion, though the article is very unclear.
In my opinion (only) I think it's disruptive.
How so?
In what way does a post on a website that probably can't be visited on school property disrupt classroom activity?
I really wonder what the discussion was like at the school board meeting. It's like: Hey, we can't let this guy get away with calling us bullies. What should we do about it? Hmmm, lets threaten to expell him. That will teach him. The sad truth is I've seen similar things in the corporate world. Maybe this is a good lesson on how the world works (as a previous poster mentioned).
No Sigs!
When a student makes statements that are (1) outside school hours, (2) off school property, (3) not associated with any school activities, then yes, the student has a great deal of liberty as to what he can say and do. Correspondingly, the administrators have very little say in what he can do in such circumstances. The notion of avoiding "disruption" is unlikely to fly here either. If they can control criticisms of the school in an environment completely outside of school authority, then they can pretty much dictate anything that students do.
A threat must be direct and immediate for it to fall outside of first amendment restrictions. His "threats" are vague, indirect, and unlikely to result in any real consequences.
I'm all for schools teaching kids good behavior but there are a few things they do that are both wrong and just plain illegal. Things schools should keep in mind:
Schools are mandatory. School attendance is not optional in the US. Kids have to go. There are a few who have the means to attend alternatives but those who don't are forced to attend public schools no matter what.
Schools are part of the government. Like police and judges our schools are government bodies. You can not give schools the ability to force the removal of fundamental rights. Judges can't. Police can't. Schools *MUST* be bound by the bill of rights including the right to free speech. They don't have the right to take that away much like they don't have the right to take your life away (forget detention.. you're going to the gas chamber.) You could argue that schools should be allowed to control speech in school creating short periods of time when their rights are suspended, although it's probably a bad idea. To say they have the ability to remove fundamental rights from people altogether is completely ludicrous. No federal, state or local government body can have that power. Granted, the bill of rights only specifically mentions federal government, the trend lately seems to be ruling that the 14'th amendment extends the bill of rights to state and local government. This would include schools.
The other thing that it's important to note is that speech restriction is essentially creating thought crimes and the effects are usually precisely the opposite of what was intended. Discouraging open exchange only worsens the problem that we are trying to ignore or make invisible. The first amendment exists for this reason and it's for this reason we should defend it absolutely without question always. Everyone has a right to be heard.
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
Your response makes no sense and is full of non-sequitors.
"Schools impose all kinds of restrictions on students. Places of business impose all kinds of restrictions on employees. Owners of property impose restrictions on trespassers." RTFA before posting - this has absolutely ZERO to do with the schoo. He posts on his own time with his own equipment and has made no threatening comments (per the Joliet police chief quoted in the article.) None. Of. Their. Business.
"This is legal. Schools are allowed to have dress codes. Schools are allowed to decide what constitutes "non-disruptive" activity to the learning environment." Again, if you would think and read before typing, you would see that this has NOTHING to do with the learning environment. It was done outside of school on privately owned equipment and made no criminal threats to any student, faculty, staff, or facilities.
"The unanswered question in this article is, did the student cross any line violating the school policy? If you read the quote, in legal terms there is an implicit threat -- some attorneys will argue "assault". Other attorneys will argue "free speech." If this is the case, then you go to the authorities. The district found the comments so threatening that they have contacted NOBODY about it. Not the police (local police chief says no crime has been committed - a pretty bold statement with likely pending legal action so it must be pretty cut and dried to him), not the DA's office, not the FBI. Yeah, must've been pretty serious stuff.
Should a public school be able to mete out punishment for violation of its dress code for clothing worn outside of school premises and during non-school hours? Others could see the student and it could cause a disruption.
What about giving detentions for students swearing with friends while hanging out on a Saturday afternoon? Surely this is setting a bad example and influencing the friends that are present.
What if a student gets a speeding ticket? Not only is this a bad example, it is endangering lives. (Won't somebody thing of the children?!)
Face it, the kid (who does in fact sound like an idiot) posted some comments that even the local police chief says are in no way criminal (no threats, etc.) This public school district has absolutley no business interfering with what activities the student engages on his own time using his own resources. None. Zip.
It's pretty obvious what party is causing the greatest disruption here.
What the hell was a school official doing reading random a students xanga? Do these people have no lives at all?
What's wrong with this? Rich people are actually good for the economy, while poor people are a liability. It's only fair that society would favour rich people.
Everyone in this case is taking themselves way too seriously, including me, for making this dumb post.
Using a key to gouge expletives on another's vehicle is a sign of trust, and friendship.
Autonomous Retard -- Is your camp safe? UnsafeCamp.com
The difference is, schools have the right to filter what you view while in school. As long as they provide a complete education on mandated topics, they are not required to allow you to access irrelevant sites. If a school decides to block site with flash minigames, they can. If they block out pornagraphic sites, that's their (good) decision. They have that right. By circumventing their authority willfully, you have disobeyed the school, interfered with their rights, and encouraged others to do so also. They therefore had the right to expel you for violating policy.
In this case, on his own time, a student posted a concern about improper activites by the school in a media where others could view it. That's a right he has. For a school to even consider expelling him is rediculous. They should on the other hand be bringing him to a schoolboard meeting to use his complaints to fix their system.
What a dumbass. You intentionally bypassed the schools internet filter by setting up your own proxy server (dumb in and of itself). What's even stupider though is you told your fellow students about it. Lesson number one when you're doing something "wrong" is you don't tell anyone, especially kids. People will talk, and you'll get caught.
I suppose you feel like the Chinese dissident, smashing the opression of the schools internet filter (i.e. "combatting censorship on the internet). Of course unlike chinese dissidents you can go home to an unfiltered internet and read whatever you want. The only thing you accomplished was thumbing your nose at authority by jumping the little kiddie fence they erected. Filters are in general a bad idea, and will always be able to be bypassed by people with minimal knowledge. But bucking authority isn't going to get that policy changed one bit. More likely it will only strengthen the resolve of your enemies.
If you really wanted to change the policy you'd investigate what sites are blocked by the filter and started writing about it. Appeal to both sides. Does it filter out Planned Parenthood or the ACLU? How about Rush Limbaugh or the Christian Coalition? Many people hear filtering and only assume they're filtering out porn sites. A more stark comparison of the reality of filtering is far more convincing than hearing about some dumb kid who thinks he's smarter than the school administrators (even if that does happen to be true in the case of networking technology).
AccountKiller
For some reason, teachers here think that they are gods inside schools. They consider themselves to have total authority, despite the fact that they take zero responsilibity for anything that happens inside schools. Consider bullying -- if you tried that at your workplace, you'd be lucky if you just got fired. More likely, you'd end up being sued into destitution or thrown in jail. And yet teachers do nothing to stop it, and spend their time expelling students who dare to complain about conditions in schools.
What's wrong with this? Rich people are actually good for the economy, while poor people are a liability. It's only fair that society would favour rich people.
BZZZZZZZZZT - WRONG. It is all about distribution of wealth.
The rich have power to decide where the money of the poor must flow. They (banks, insurance companies etc) take money from the poor by raising high interest on loans etc, making the rich richer and the poor poorer- effectively *causing* poverty. This is a very desireable situation for them because more people will need loans.
If you're saying the poor are to blame for this, you're either happily ignorant middle-class or your rich daddy never told you where the money came from.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
Tell the world he didn't bring a date to the prom?
Freespeech always seems to be onsided.
Frankly in this case I don't know what to think. I myself have once done a school project where we had to make a brochure about something. I parodied the school brochure but highlighted stuff like the fact the computer room could not be used outside class hours and other lacking facilities.
Got called into the directors office but nothing major, he just wanted to ask wich of them were true, and they were corrected. Turned out that the stuff I found stupid were never intended to be that way but had just evolved over the years.
Granted this was holland and nobody had heard of school shootings. Then again I used humor and didn't insult anyone.
As always there is probably a fine line with the case of what people are allowed to say, I just wonder if all the people defending the right of students to insult teachers feel that teachers have the same right to insult their students. Cause I am pretty sure that if teachers were allowed they have some real cursing to get off their chest.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Abandoning compulsory education is not the answer. What is really needed is sensible schools with sensible policies and sensible administrators (if they can be found these days). When I was in school the kind of things I read about happening in schools today did not happen. Expulsions were extremely rare. Detentions and suspensions happened but only for things like brutal fights or direct malicious vandalism. And even then it was only for a day or so and never made the papers. These days I hear stories about first graders being handcuffed and arrested in schools, kids being expelled for carrying a boy scout knife, fopr what they think or say outside of school and for countless other things that were considered non-issues years ago. O think we need to take a long hard look at the mindset of some of these people in charge of schools these days. Perhaps they are taking things a bit more seriously than they really need to.
Most of the people here on slashdot couldn't do their job for a week without running home and crying into their huggy pillow. Most people, untrained for a job, would struggle to do it. So what. I think what you are trying to say is have sympathy for teachers - their job is tough. So is yours, so is mine. I also don't get summers off and a cush 7:45-3:30 work day with an incredible array of days off. My wife, a teacher, does. Come to think of it, when you factor days off into pay, teachers do OK there too. That said, most teachers are great human beings who achieve incredible results despite working in quite possible the worst environment ouside your local maximum secruity penitentary. Blame the curriculum, or blame the bad teachers, but please don't lump all teachers into that category. Seeing posts saying all teachers suck get moderated high makes those of us here who are mature just sorta shake our heads I'm not sure where you are getting the idea that the /. community thinks all teachers suck. I think people are highly critical of school administrators and the culture in most schools where kids can't use computers that other taxpayers pay for as the public resource that they are. People are also highly critical of the education system as every year costs go up, results go down. People are also critical when their taxes go up because some administrator got his panties in a knot over someone calling him a petty dictator on MySpace and drags the school into a lawsuit they lose. People get tired of seeing where kids get expelled for bringing cell phones, ipods, wifi detectors, toy guns and swiss army pocketknives to school. We also tire of seeing the student shoots up school story of the week. People are sick of educators behaving like power crazed, egotistical nit-wits. We're also sick of seeing our kids treated like inmates.
Well, it seems that nothing is mine. I guess that if I tell my parents that I don't like how someone is teaching a subject, and I'm overheard, they're going to kick me out because they're more worried about their jobs than any of us. They seem to think that if I'm a student and I do ANYTHING, they can take action. For example, let's say I am mean to my younger brother and get grounded. I tell a friend at school and a teacher overhears. They could expel me for being mean to my own brother. Nothing is sacred anymore!
I'm glad that decision was overturned, or think of the message it sends:
At home, you can call the president a Nazi. You can mock spiritual leaders all you want. But for Christ's sake, don't say your school principal wears a dumb looking suit.
If someone works for a company, then it's really no question that the person would not go unpunished if speaking derogatory or so about his company. Here we're talking about schools, schools' rights regarding controlling the children inside and outside of the school. Usually I wouldn't have anything against schools regulating children's behavior etc. when they are in school. Yet, I would not let any school or teacher interfere into my child's life outside of school, no matter what.
Children need to learn, and they need to learn that hard, that they _have_ the right to speak their minds about anything. I know of many cases (RL, not bedtime stories) when people just didn't dare to voice their opinion about something - even if they were right - in fear the commencing trouble wouldn't worth the fuss. Children need to be taught so that when they will become adults they will think about basic human rights as being so natural to use as breathing.
If a child learns that (s)he is not allowed to say anything bad about those in authority (and for a kid the teachers are such) that can become a real barrier later on in their lives.
I know I'm possibly going too far with this, still, if a child wants to tell anything (s)he wants about the school, the teachers, etc. at home, for us or on his/her personal web page, I really think nobody should stop him/her unless it conflicts with some (general, social, family, etc.) ethics, but then again, that should be the responsibility of the family and of the parents, not of the school or of the teacher.
I always thought that teachers should be "educators" and "guardians" and "signposts", and not some governesses, or self-appointed mind police officers.
If a school would sue me or my child because spoke his/her opinion about them, I just wouldn't want my kid in that school any longer, let alone fear of some expel.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
Hands down, across the board school systems have always empowered the bullies. And anyone who is bullied who tries to do something about it gets victimized twice over.
Schools, the press & the public are so concerned over issues like Columbine that they still just don't get it. These poor kids keep on getting abused over & over again. The teachers won't do anything, the principal won't do anything even when you bring it to their attention.
Being at the bottom of the pecking order at school, no one ever told me it was OK to fight back (except for one gym teacher & that was later in my school career when. I was afraid I would get in trouble. Which I would have, but the end result would have been better. Back then I didn't have the perspective that a detention here or there would not have been that big of a deal. It certainly doesn't faze the bullies.
If you are young & in school & being bullied. Here is what I suggest:
1. First stop go ahead & tell a teacher & your parents.
2. If that teacher does nothing, tell another teacher. Keep on telling all the teachers you have until one listens to you.
3. If that fails, tell the principal.
4. If that fails & you go to a religious school tell the pastor, rabbi, priest or whomever is in charge of the congregation. This is essentially going up the chain of command.
5. If you are being physically assaulted in any way off of school grounds & the school does nothing call the cops. The cops might try to blow you off, but insist on filing an assault complaint. Do the same if the assault occurs on school ground and the school refuses do anything about it.
6. Keep a log of the abuse. Who you told about it & what that person did about it if anything.
7. If you have run through all these options, start fighting back against physical abuse. Yes. You will get in trouble. But bullies prefer to go after the ones who don't fight back. You will probably get pummeled. Just make sure you get in a good right hook. Try not to be a spaze. Bullies love to get a reaction out of you.
8. Don't become the bully yourself. Fight back is defense, not offense.
9. Consider some self-defense classes (For defense, don't become the aggressor). Bullies will pass you over for easier targets.
10. Do something about your social awkwardness. Get involved with some clubs. Being social is a skill to learn. Bullies prefer victims who don't have friends. Boy scouts, soccer, gaming clubs, archery, swimming, find a way to interact with more people. You'll get better at it.
11. Keep in mind that you will grow out of this. As people get older, they tend to appreciate other's differences. What made you the bottom of the gene pool in grade school will probably be really cool in college.
Come on, this kid will be lucky if he's only been suspended rather than just being expelled altogether. The first amendment does not allow for people to make threats.
"In Chicago, Community High School District 128 voted unanimously on Monday to require that all students participating in extracurricular activities sign a pledge agreeing that evidence of "illegal or inappropriate" behavior posted on the Internet could be grounds for disciplinary action."
Such a "contract" would be as illegal as the paper that it was written on. No goverment entity (and public schools are government entities) can make you sign away your right to free speech, petition, etc on your own time on your own property. Also, without defining with specificity what "inappropriate" is, the thing would be too broad even if it were a contract between PRIVATE citizens.
That would be the same as if your state passed a law requiring you to, when you renewed your drivers license that you refrained from "inappropriate" behavior on the internet, with the intent to sue people who criticize the idiots at the DMV...
Corporatism != Free Market
if that was a private high school, they have every right to do so. public schools, however, do not.
please me, have no regrets.
You must have had one sad, empty childhood....
Nope. He just read the mission statement for the public school system in the USA.
You see, the schools aren't there to provide an education beyond minimal skills. They really are there to teach conformity.
The goal of the school system is to provide workers who will do what their bosses tell them, and voters who will blindly tow the party line. The fact that only 39% of Americans support President Bush is going to be seen not as a failure by Bush, but as a failure of the school system to educate the other 61% into obedience.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I recently made a post about first amendment rights, where it applies and where it does not.
This is where 1st amendment rights apply. The school is being a bully. They handeled this poorly, and it leads me to believe they actually have treated this kid bad previously.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
You know, that may not entirely be true. I come from a very poor family. My grandparents were sharecroppers (they worked other people's land for a share of the yeild) and my parents struggled to make ends meet. We were evicted from a half a dozen homes, and moved from a dozen or so before we could be evicted, because we could not pay the rent. I clearly remember wondering if we were going to eat on Christmas (much less get any presents,) one year.
Still, even with alcoholism, prescription drug addiction, infidelity and the inability to keep jobs, my family worked it's way out of poverty to a decent middle-class life.
My sister left home at 15, got pregnant by 17 by a resident-alien (here legally, but not a citizen,) and was married and divorced before the baby was a year old. That baby is now 16, is an honor student at a decent high school, dances classical ballet, tap, jazz, etc, and was awarded the "best student of her year" by her principal last week.
With a little hard work and some principles, anyone can work his way out of poverty and into a decent life. Children who are cared for and taught the right principles can excel, even in public schools.
I ended up joining the armed forces, then getting out and using the Montgomery GI bill to go to school. I'm now a professional with a Masters degree, earning a six figure income and have a bright future ahead of me. Don't say the poor are being univerisally exploited by the rich. They are being held back by their own habits.
America is the land of opportunity, where anyone can be rich. No one is going to hand it to you, it takes hard work and perseverance, and a clear understanding that one's choices define one's circumstances, not the other way around.
It's true that it's harder for someone with no resources to climb out of poverty. I'm not claiming that isn't. Also, I acknowlege that there are plenty of soft rich kids out there who will do just fine because they had every advantage given to them. Also, I will be a working stiff all of my life, where some people will get to dabble in whatever suits their fancy because Daddy gave them an huge inheritance.
All of that having been said, there is some truth in the statement, "The rich are getting richer because they are doing those things that made them rich, while the poor are getting poorer because they continue to do those things that made them poor."
There is a growing descrepancy between the rich and the poor in this country, but it is NOT because the poor are getting poorer. The poor are not any more poor than they were in the 1930's, the 1940's or the 1950's. In fact, when was the last time anyone has seen mass starvation in the US? People boiling their shoes for the leather? The biggest problems among the "poor" in America seem to be obesity and drug use.
The rich are getting richer, and it is primarily because they can invest their money in business, and the value of business is growing. Their investments grow, so EVERYONE who has invested in them gets richer. That includes people in the lower middle class who invest what little they can, and the "merchant class" who own small businesses or farms.
When someone comes to me and says, "the poor are only poor because the rich made them that way" they are also saying, "anyone who has achieved a comfortable life is evil, because they are repressing the poor." Does this mean that all of my hard work and sacrifice have been a sham, and I'm really part of a secret conspiracy to exploit the innocent poor? I beg to differ. We have to get away from cult of the repressed, and start encouraging "the poor" to do those things that will make them more productive and more comfortable.
In an ideal world, we would not have a "poor" class. We would have a baseline of people who live a simple, yet comfortable life and a rising level of families who strive for more. We would stop using the word "poor" to describe an economic status, because it would be recognized that the people in the lower income bracket (in our ideal world) are content with the level of income they make, or are just beginning their climb to higher incomes and a more expensive lifestyle.
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
Once again, we take a legitimate concern like bullying, and overreact such that anyone who feels the slightest bit offended by something someone else does screams "I'm being bullied!" Bullying is a real problem. To shout "Bully!" when someone in a position of authority exercises that authority, however, diminishes the real cases of bullying.
This kid made very public, albeit veiled threats of violence against the school administration simply because he "felt bullied." The threats were so veiled, I'm not really sure they cross the line. However, the administration has a responsibility to provide a safe environment for the staff and student body in order to facilitate the primary mission, which is to advance student learning. They must, in many cases, use their best judgment in discerning what constitutes a threat of violence against the staff and/or student body.
The principal knows this kid, and his history. We, the random readers of Slashdot, do not. The principal is in the thick of this situation, whereas all we know is what one reporter has written about it. The principal is charged with the responsibility of protecting the school. We are not.
If this kid took it further, and actually did something to which he had been alluding, the argument would now be that the administration is inept for not taking action when he had clearly made threats. To prevent action simply based on the notion that the principal is "bullying" the kid is grotesque.
Give the principal the slack his position deserves.
Joe Mainusch http://www.weber-amps.com
The deputy chief of police of Joliet said there wasn't a threat. The school was asked "If you thought there was a threat, did you call the police or FBI?". The school said they didn't contact FBI or Police. How threatened did the school admins really feel? apparently not much. Comparing your current situation to a past situation where something really bad happened is not threatening. It's a comparison.
Regardless of the kid's history, the school has *no*frickin*authority* to control the behavior of kids outside of school. NONE WHATEVER, even if the kids are talking about school or using school books to do homework, or whatever.
No level of government, from school teachers to the US president, has the authority to dictate to anyone what they put on their own website outside of school.
And yes, this constitutes governmental bullying of someone with a dissenting opinion.
Pavlov wouldn't be so famous if he'd used a can opener instead of a bell.
People need to stop saying this, because it makes them sound like idiots.
First of all, it doesn't matter what the Constitution says. The whole basis of constitutional law is how the Supreme Court interprets the Constitution.
Yes, the First Amendment originally applied only to Congress. However, more came after that. Specifically, I refer the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution.
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
This has been interpreted, on more than one occasion, to refer to the fact that the states must uphold many of the same rights as the federal government does. This has been referred to as the "Nationalization of the Constitution."
Read up a bit before you spout off nonsense.
The schools expel to protect their own financial interests. It is so easy to sue in the US that schools are constantly afraid of what action by a student might end them, the school, in court. When a student gets to the point of making them worry too much, the school expels them. Twenty years ago the student would have ended up in special education first, but with mainstreaming, that isn't as much of an option.
Uh, or it could be the kids clear concern thant the schools actions will drive someone less stable than he is into a shooting rampage. I think he's voicing his legitimate concern that the actions of the administration may cause some unstable individual to start shooting people and that he and his friends could get caught in the crossfire.
I mean, if I see someone poking an alligator with a stick and tell them, "Hey man, you keep doing that and you're gonna lose an arm." am I threatening to rip the guys arm off?
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Such a "contract" would be as illegal as the paper that it was written on.
1) That's not a contract, it's an agreement. They're very different things in the eyes of the law.
2) There is nothing illegal about such an agreement, and that agreement is binding. The only agreements and contracts which are invalid are those signed under duress, those signed by people unable to represent themselves such as unemancipated minors, and those contracts which require the signator to do something illegal.
Be very careful about the wording of #2. That doesn't say "those which require someone to do something that the law does not allow without an agreement." For example, I can happily sign an agreement with you such that neither of us wear green clothes which has a monetary penalty clause. Assuming the contract is signed by competant individuals outside of duress, then whichever of us first wears green clothes is liable for that penalty. It doesn't matter that a school can't expel us for wearing green clothes; we've entered into a binding agreement.
The thing that's actually actionable here is that the school requires the agreement for acceptance, and that the clause regards someone's fundamental rights. Mind you, this sort of clause is actually common in the real world; one place where Slashdot is quite used to the idea is in the communication clause of a noncompete contract. If you work for WidgetInc, you can't give any tech advice to CommonControlCorp for a year, that sort of thing. The courts uphold specific obligations to personal topical censorship all the time.
The problem is that the school district requires the students to sign the agreement. THAT is illegal. You cannot require someone who is already a member of a public service to sign an agreement to remain a member. (You can if it's a private service.) Furthermore, you can only require someone to sign an agreement to use a public service if there is another equivalent public service within reasonable availability to the person. That's how magnet schools add restrictions like dress code and behavior code to their system: if the kid doesn't want to sign the agreement, they're welcome to go to the normal public school.
The issue, in the eyes of the court, is simply whether a person dependant on a public service has the option to use a public service without entering into agreements which they don't want. As long as there's one public school available to a kid which doesn't have asinine agreements, the others can require things like that all they want. They cannot, however, require that of their existing students; only their new ones.
What the school is doing here isn't actually to curtail the student's rights at all. It's a misguided attempt at self protection. The school wants legal leeway so that if they see something they think but cannot legally prove is a threat, that they can act on it without getting bent over a crate. This is a common fear in current school systems, and principals ignorant of the law are frequently doing this believing they're acting in the best interest of the school's ability to keep itself safe. Were it not for the disasterous results of their misapplication, they'd actually be doing an admirable thing.
The principals, unfortunately, are not apparently aware that they are able to expel a kid simply because they believe the kid is a threat. (Go ask a lawyer - it's true.) Once someone knows that, then this agreement becomes a horrible after-effect of the glad-handed attempt to seal the school up from liability. This sort of behavior is common in leadership which is more interested in being safe from liability than being safe from legitimate liability. The latter stance is important, but requires clueful legal counsel - something most public schools don't have.
Be less angry at the school board. They're trying to do the right thing. They just don't know how. Instead of telling them how awful they are, gently and kindly explain why what they're doin
StoneCypher is Full of BS
It would be interesting to see if that changes if a national voucher system is ever put into play, and the federal money starts pouring in.
Proud member of the American Non Sequitur Society. We might not make much sense, but boy do we love pizza!
Privatization allows for choice. Choice allows for competition. Competition weeds out crap like this. Democratic/socialist systems only allow for crap like this to be weeded out at election time, and only if they become an election issue. In other words everyone has to hate it in order for it to get fixed in a socialist system. In a private/capitalist system, if you don't like it, you can fix it by exercising your options. It doesn't fix it for everyone. It fixes it only for those who really care about it. Which has the added benefit of making the solution cheaper since the scope of the fix is smaller.
I remain undeterred in my belief that privatization would do a better job of preventing crap like this.
Key to financial independence: Spend less than you earn. Save and invest the difference. Do it for a long time.
> Well, he did admit to drinking and he did ask to be suspended.
He also said that Miller Light was delicious ?!!
Not sure how this illness is called, but it damn sure has to be a brain disease.
3.243F6A8885A308D313
Don't you hate people who look back on high school as "the best years of their lives?" They are either forgetting what it was like, or they were the bastards who made life miserable for the rest of us. I'm never going to tell my kids to cherish those years. Tough it out and get through them, because it gets better, that's what I'll tell them. Even with some of the rough shit I've been through as an adult, pretty much everything after high school was better.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
I wholely disagree with your last part also. When in school there was this bully. I met him through school. He would not beat me up before during or after school. He would wait until he saw me at the bowling ally on saturday night and beat me up. It is the schools business to help protect me, and I am glad they did.
I wholely disagree with this. A school isn't there to protect me, from myself or others, when I am not engaged in school related activities. If the bully attacked me on school grounds, it would be their job to intervene and punish this kid before handing him over to the police. But since he attacked you at non-school functions off of school district property, they have no business being involved.
Responsibility for your safety rests squarely in your hands. If the bully was attacking you at the bowling alley, drive in, or McDonalds, you need to report it to the responsible authorities - the management of the establishment and the police. You also need to learn how to defend yourself by taking martial arts or some other form of self-defense.
My Sysadmin Blog
His goal wasn't to change people's minds.
Then he's simply a selfish fool. Anyone that truly believes that filtering is wrong in HS libraries will work to change the policy, not trying to circumvent the filtering. HS is a pretty small place for a short period of time. You can circumvent the filter by simply going home, or waiting up to 4 years to graduate.
How do you argue with unreasonable men?
Find the unreasonable mens' bosses, and convince them. We still live in a democracy, so ultimately the bosses of the school administrators are the people of the district. You don't even have to convince anyone, just a small but vocal minority.
His goal was to beat back censorship, which he accomplished.
For what, a couple days? All he accomplished was getting himself expelled.
Second of all your sig is: when you hear 'activist' you reach for a revolver
Thank you for your literalist interpretation. I'll give it all the respect it deserves.
AccountKiller