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Google Bundles Toolbar With Adobe Apps
grammar fascist writes "Sci-Tech Today reports that Google is paying a 'significant amount' to bundle Google Toolbar with certain Adobe downloads. From the article: 'The initial venue for the Google mini-app will be downloads of the popular and free Shockwave multimedia player. The move is seen by some observers as an effort to outflank Microsoft, especially as Internet Explorer 7 nears its formal launch this summer [...] Interestingly, Google's search toolbar will be available only when Shockwave is downloaded for use with Internet Explorer on Windows.'"
Next step will be start advertising in pdf files !
As long as it works on Linux, with Firefox and will give me flash 8.
If the alternative is bundling the MSN search bar, I'm completely in favor of this.
$x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
$x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
Of course it targets only IE. If somebody is smart enough to not use IE, then surely he is smart enough to not use msn search or any other crap. He might even conciously choose to not use google, but others!
as an example my search toolbar includes:
http://www.google.com/search?s
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=s&meta=site3Dgr
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=s
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&c2
http://packages.debian.org/
http://ask.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?searc
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/search/index.cgi?q=s
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=s
http://freshmeat.net/search?q=s
#
#\ @ ? Colonize Mars
#
We install Shockwave and Adobe Reader on all of the computer at work. Right now, Shockwave wants to install Yahoo toolbar and Adobe wants to install Google toolbar and desktop. I guess Yahoo's about to be out of luck?
-jls
Techno-pagan
This reminds me of the Yahoo-Toolbar in Acrobat7, this brings nothing for Adobe - but a slight decline in reputation as a manufacturer of high-end software tools.
I hate bundled software - I find it annoying, and everynow and then I forget to unclick the box when I am quickly installing something. I know a lot of freeware and toolbar companies do it, but I always thought (hoped?) Google was above that.
The WWW was initially all about information: it is a way so people can publish data, people can get the data and they can follow the right hyperlinks that lead to other related data. It is a distributed, cooperative, data sharing thing.
.NET, perl and python scripts, etc. The difference is that everybody has one of those two browsers, so the user does not have to download anything and that there is no need to install the application since it is downloaded and executed by visiting the URL. Some programmers have convinced some stupid venture capitalists, that this is the next big thing, and the news about AJAX circulates to attract more venture capitalists to spend more money to buy AJAX. Not a bad idea.
Now we have a new kind of WWW applications. It's applications that use the web browser as their GUI platform and run in the web browser. Such applications are, advanced word processors, spreadsheets, e-mail readers and eventually the Browser In The Browser secret project google's been working on. These applications have NOTHING to do with the concept of the WEB.
It is "scripts" for the IE/Mozilla program, like java programs for the JVM, C# programs for
But for the users, the IE/Mozilla platform is the most insecure way to run their applications. Their application is constantly connected to the internet. Both browsers have numerous vunerabilities and new ones are discovered every day. The application downloads and "runs" new data, very often without the user knowing about it (through hidden javascript links and the flash player). The user cannot trace, debug or even study the AJAX code that runs on their IE/Mozilla platform. Through asynchronous javascript and flash, binary proprietary code runs on their PC with full priviledges. And to all these add that javascript is a terrible programming language and that the GUI in the browser was designed for forms and was never good for things like an interactive text shell. \paragraph
The result is that you get poor applications, that are slow, very insecure, do things without the user's control and it's a Mozilla/IE lockin.
That is Web -1.0
They could sell ads that take the place of redacted text. But then the original text still is there though, and what would you advertise on an NSA memo?
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Although it's nice of them to helpfully include carefully selected sotware from premier partners (where the careful selection process is making sure it's the highest bidder), even if they promise to be really, really, good and not create a bloated installer, perhaps they could get the message that if I'd wanted to install X, I would have. If I'm installing a player so you can make massive profits selling people the encoder, I shouldn't have to look at ads as well. The fact that they've had to create a FAQ telling people why they shouldn't be annoyed suggests they know this.
I'm scared of numbers that can't be written as a fraction. It's an irrational fear.
It an extension for IE that adds stuff like a search field, a pagerank display and a popup blocker. Probably only necessary because the current versions of IE suck.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
... until Google helps Mozilla further develop the SVG implementation for Firefox 3, and switches Google Maps over to SVG, as well. Imagine being able to show and hide selected layers -- roads, highways, burger joints, bicycle paths, etc. dynamically, while zooming smoothly? The satellite imagery could just be another layer onto which the others could be placed. GMap-powered bike rides, anyone?
With all the cheating going on (scrappers, link farms, google bombing, etc...), maybe they push the bar so much because Google needs some extra information apart from links to build their pagerank results, and they get it from statistics gathered from googlebar users.
When his defense asked, "Which computer has Jon Johansen trespassed upon?" the answer was: "His own."
First quote I see in the article is from Laura DiDio, second is from Jeffrey Mann who is identified as a Gartner "analyst". Nowhere in this article do I see a quote from Google, Adobe or Macromedia. Anyone have a better source then this article?
Is it time for an Open Source Search Engine?
:)
We already have a *pretty* good free OS in the form of Linux, we already have *pretty* good apps for it. Why settle for Google or MSN Search or Yahoo search or whatever? I should think that a massively distributed OS search engine should do pretty well.
Forgive the semantics, focus on the idea.
Use a bit torrent style method of sharing bandwidth. Say one lonely PC can store 100mb of data, 15mb of which can be shared on the internet per day to save end-user costs x the number of Linux installs, prolly not a bad use for distributed computing and bandwidth sharing if I have ever heard of one.
Open Source Search Engine.
The time is now.
Agencies of many governments already use pdf and academica widely uses pdfs. The push for an Open Document Format could help Adobe advance pdfs as an alternative amenable to all.
If Google is going to move from it's base as a search engine cum advertiser it could do well to look at Adobe as a buyout candidate. IIRC Adobe just recently nixed a deal with Microsoft to have Word docs be able to generate pdfs. Google may be partnering up with Adobe with the intention of investing heavily in the company while positioning itself against Microsoft.
Maybe MS will embrace F/OSS by underwritting and developing LaTeX:)
"Academicians are more likely to share each other's toothbrush than each other's nomenclature."
Cohen
It stands to be completely unusable for ordinary users. It can't even save downloads to the desktop anymore.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Its one more program you have to keep an eye out for when installing otherwise "free" software from adobe and etc. I put it in the adware/spyware category because if you dont actively pay attention to your next/next/next clicking during install you will get a shitty google toolbar slapped onto your browser which is really annoying...
No company adds stupid toolbars I'll never use to my machine.
After all the trouble Microsoft got in for bundling IE and Media Player with Windows, I would expect the people at Google (or Yahoo) to be a little smarter. Just how many million dollars do they actually want to get fined? I don't know about the USA, but the EU competition authorities do regard product bundling as an anti-competitive practice and illegal.
And frankly, Microsoft had at least a decent case that integrating a web browser and a media player in an OS makes sense, but bundling a search engine with a media player or a document viewer does not make any sense at all. Next they bundle them with the cornflakes.
...but was this not in the news already last week?
firefox bundles google search and defaults to google (..and makes millions) and no one on ./ says anything
I don't need or want google on my machine. Since I never use IE I'll have the option of what's loaded on my computer. I recently subscribed to ATT's DSL. The only way I could set up my user name and password was to use their setup CD. Fortunately I had an old hard drive lying around that I used for the set up. ATT's setup CD installed IE6 and a bunch of other unneeded crap-ware. I discarded the hard drive after the setup and am now using the configuration that I choose rather than what ATT thinks I should have.
Scene: Adobe Acrobat comes home after a hard day of making side-deals with other companies and binging on smaller applications. Once, Acrobat would have leapt up the stairs to reach his 2nd-floor apartment. Once upon a time this valued member of the community helped countless others read and share documents. But now, after years of bloat, Acrobat reaches his second floor apartment sweating and turning purple in the face. He wipes the sweat from his eyes and unlocks the door to his apartment to find all his friends there...
...and here's some reading material on how to curb your bloat [drops large pile of documents in Acrobat's lap]
Acrobat: Wha... what are all you guyes doing here?
Photoshop: Acrobat, first we'd like to say the-- WE LOVE YOU... Everybody in this room loves you... And we're worried... about YOU.
Acrobat: What's going on?
Photshop: Acrobat, you have to stop this.
Acrobat: Stop what? What do you mean "stop"? Stop what?
Photoshop: Here, read this...
Acrobat: Humm... RrrRRrrrrRrr... Humm... Would you mind if I just call the office and make sure there's no updates before I read you this document? No? Ok, but there' could be a security issue.... Hummm... RrRrrRRrr... Hummm...
Foxit: Give me that! [Snatches document from Acrobat's hands] You know what this says, Adobe? It says you've put on weight... AGAIN. No one can remember the last time you were under 10Mb! And at this rate, you'll be pushing 30Mb by the end of the year!
Acrobat: Hey! Today's document rendering world is COMPLEX, I've just be putting on a little extra CODE to get the job done!
Foxit: Oh that is such bullshit Acrobat! I do nearly everything you do, and I'm still under 3Mb!
Photoshop: Acrobat, it's time you admitted you have a problem. For starters, you're going to have to stop haning around with those Google and Yahoo kids, they're TROUBLE.
Foxit:
Photoshop: Foxit, oh god no! Acrobat hasn't been able to manage documents of that size for years, he's so out-of-shape! What have you done? Call 9-1-1!
End scene
Height: 38U, Weight: 0 Newtons, Eyes: #0000FF, OS: Gray Matter 1.0 (Alpha)
with all the damn tool bars trying to install themselves we're going to have to change our pages to be best viewed at 600 pixels in height.
google, msn, yahoo, viewport?, and others. Whats left for the webpage itself?
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
Google doesn't need to bundle the Google Toolbar for other browsers as well, because users of alternative browsers already know that Google is better than Yahoo or MSN, so they use Google. The computer illiterate, who use Internet Explorer because they don't even know that other browsers exist, are the target audience.
Install NoScript to prevent Google from tracking which sites you visit and use Gimp.
Look for Google alternative. Say NO to Google Spyware.
P.S. Don't think it's important? Just wait until Google gets really squeezed on earnings. Then you'll see what evil means.
Reduce, reuse, cycle
....we DO NOT WANT bundled shit with the applications we intend to download. This is like someone giving you a side order of sh1t sandwich with your order at dinner. Complete asshattery that drives me nuts. I don't care how 'useful' it may be...let me decide if I want to install another app.
Hmmmm, This is either simply Google bidding the most for their tool bar to be bundled with some very widely used software, or the battle lines within the IT sector are getting a little more defined.
Personally I would prefer to be able to download and install an application that does whatever the job is I want doing; without installing any other "useful" application's - regardless of which "well selected" partner it comes from. However from a non technical perspective this may well become interesting.
Now to me it is starting to look as though Microsoft are feeling less in control of their ability to "lock" users to their software. This appears to be the reason for the plethora of new proprietary file formats that they can force into the main stream with Vista. It will be interesting to see if there is any fight against the formats or if the rest of the software industry will carry out its own embrace and extend exercise... After all this time round they are not providing "new" functionality but rather revamping existing standards and encroaching on other companies areas of expertise.
Google should add a decent dedicated document search feature that is purely an index of ODF, PDF, Rich/Plain Text etc.. and exclude XPS until it sees mainstream use at least, and offer links to - the original document - html version - adobe acrobat / open office. Im not certain if Adobe will or even should, but I would also like to see adobe and open office support the XPS standard for reading, if not necessarily for export.
Bundling Google Toolbar with other products is evil in my book. I don't want Google's toolbar. I don't want Yahoo's toolbar. I don't want their crap on my machine.
I find bundling software to be acceptible on one condition. The default state for the check box should be off so that I don't accidentally install it.
Believe it or not, not everyone knows all of the software available to them at any given time. As such, advertising like this (which is essentially what bundling software is, advertising for the bundled program) does have a useful purpose. If someone offers me a program, I like the look of it and I install it and enjoy it, then I am thankful for whoever offered it to me. It's only onerous when they use people's natural inattention to force it on them.
It only says it will come bundles with Shockwave, not flash. Yet as I look at their site now, the Flash download page includes an option for the Yahoo toolbar, while the Shockwave download does not. I'm not sure if it asks you to download it later along, though. Please, news writers, do some reasearch about what you're talking about. The Flash and Shockwave players are two different things. The later, last time I checked, not available on Linux, and likely never will be.
When an organization reaches a certain market share or amount of power, it reaches a sort of tipping point into arrogance, hubris and control-freakery, manifested in increasing its efforts to exploit all the other parties it deals with to the maximum degree. Microsoft and the **AA are long since way on the far side of that point; similarly on a larger scale the USA in the international arena; and now on a small scale, Adobe.
Last weekend I was collecting installers in preparation to reinstall Windows and wanted the latest Acrobat Reader. v.7 has the notorious behavior that if you turn off Javascript it nags you to turn it on every time you close the app. (Bug or anti-feature? It's exactly the kind of dual-purpose-with-plausible-deniability that is a favorite dirty trick of Micrsoft [WGA Notification, GUIDs, etc.].)
The v.7 reader also contained the Yahoo "feature" even if you specifically opted out of the toolbar. On Windows 2000 you can defeat the Javascript trick by replacing the Javascripts folder with a dummy file. So I expected to do the same on XP, and found that it runs an installer on every startup, and if the Javascripts folder is not as expected refuses to start the app. If I deleted the installer, the reader wouldn't start at all.
So I went to the Adobe site hoping to get a more recent version with this problem fixed. And discovered that (a) they don't even acknowledge the problem on their site (b) they no longer offer a standalone installer - only a stub that expects internet access. Well that's contrary to my security policy (I know, call me tin foil, I don't do plugins either). And no reading PDF documentation prior to networking on an OS install, as far as Adobe cares. With about five points against Adobe, I went for the alternative.
In the same day I was very disappionted to find that the latest version of the heretofore redoubtable Irfanview now bundles the Google (desktop? toolbar? whatever).
You have to get good products on the way up, while the companies are still trying to please, and abandon them when they sell out.
Isn't that summary just a bit of anti-Microsoft bias? I see this as a move to outflank Yahoo, who bundles their toolbar with a wide variety of apps, not Microsoft, who only bundles with their own products. I'm sure the #1 search engine sees the #2 search engine as more of a threat than #3.
If you dont want the crapware in Adobe reader and shock wave, there is usually a "dial;up users" button on the download page, click that, and Reader is suddenly ~5MB...
I don't know why, but I get the standalone installer by default
7 x/7.0.8/enu/AdbeRdr708_en_US.exe
as opposed to the download manager one.
*does a little test*
Aha! Javascript is the culprit.
If you enter adobe's site with javascript disabled enabled,
they give you access to the standalone installer.
I used NoScript in Firefox 1.5.
current link in case you cannot replicate this:
http://ardownload.adobe.com/pub/adobe/reader/win/
Since I already had this version installed I had to
uninstall acrobat reader to test whether or not it
is really standalone (without toolbar/extras).
After re-installing using this file (no dialog boxes
existed for toolbars/extras) I did not notice any
extras installed without permission.
In regards to the JavaScript issue in acrobat reader
itself: I renamed the directory as a test, and the
directory came back next run (empty).
Then I tried explicitly denying 'execute file/traverse folder'
permissions on the JavaScripts folder under the reader directory.
It can no longer access anything in there and it doesn't seem
to complain. I might simply be using the wrong pdf files, but
perhaps this will work for you.
I ran into a video the other day that was some obscure divx format, so I decided to install the "official" divx software. I didn't read the installer super-closely, but on the 'select components' step, I unchecked everything I didn't want.
But wait! Lo and behold, Google Toolbar for Firefox was installed. And Google Desktop Search. Yeah, just start indexing my entire drive without asking, thanks! I should've known something was up with a download size of 14 megs.
And yes, I know about ffdshow and all those super-mega-happy "codec packs". I can never get them set up to just play the damn videos.
What (else) does Google Toolbar actually do? What might it do?
I'm serious. I've been an avid user of Google since early 1999 or so, and Gmail since a few months after it came out. Like many technologists, I am somewhat of a Google evangelist.
What worries me is that Google records one's clickstream as one searchs and I can only presume that Google Toolbar could easily be modified to "phone home" about anything of interest to Google (or the NSA), particularly about what it finds on your local hard drives if you use Google Desktop.
From the Google Toolbar Features Page:
[....]
Auto Update
There's no need to check for new versions of Google Toolbar; updates are installed automatically, so you'll always have the latest and greatest version.
Your Privacy Google respects and protects our users' privacy. Periodically, the Google Toolbar's auto-update feature will contact our servers to see if you're running the most current version. In addition, Google may collect information about web pages that you view when you use advanced features such as PageRank, SpellCheck, AutoLink, and WordTranslator. However, these advanced features can be easily disabled or re-enabled at any time by selecting "Privacy Information" under "Help" in the Toolbar's "Google" menu. To learn more, please read the Toolbar privacy policy
From the Google Toolbar Privacy Statement:
Your copy of Google Toolbar includes a unique application number. When you install Google Toolbar, this number and a message indicating whether the installation succeeded are sent back to Google. Also, when Google Toolbar automatically checks to see if a new version is available, the current version number and the unique application number are sent to Google. The unique application number is required for Google Toolbar to work and cannot be disabled.
(emphasis added)
How likely is it that some "new version" that users casually allow to be installed might become increasingly snoopy?
Given that I already trust Google to handle my email, I might just be being paranoid. If that is the case, then my thought is, "It's a tough, thankless job, but somebody's gotta do it!"
I worry that the vast majority of people will cheerfully ignore invasions of their privacy and monitoring of their activities if you offer them something helpful, convenient, and very shiny.
"You're young, you're drunk, you're in bed, you have knives; shit happens." -- Angelina Jolie
I already knew about the flash thing, because the other day I had to get the latest version to view some web art. I can't recall exactly what else tried to install Google toolbar, but I know I've seen others. I always say "NO" to Google's spyware. Yeah, yeah. Google is a bunch of intellectuals with high ideals and a philosophy. So was communism.
The only thing that pisses me off more is Quacktime installing iTunes. I've got Yahoo Music Unlimited, I was quite concerned that it would step on my player (fortunately it didn't). All I wanted to do was watch some video, and I had to download the whole stinkin' iTunes player I'm never going to use. Bite me! It was roughly 50 megs. Good thing I'm getting 4-6 Mbps with cable.
So. This isn't just a Google problem. It's an industry-wide problem. I'm not sure who to blame. Perhaps these people are putting download stats in quarterly reports, and I've just added one more iTunes download to that report. Well, Apple shareholders, not only is that report bogus, I am also that much more annoyed at Apple and that much less inclined ever to buy their over-priced overly-proprietary sweatshop labor crap. Put that in your quarterly report!
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Tried to download the Google Toolbar for FireFox yesterday and was presented with a message that they don't support Windows 9X. Funny thing is that the GTB for IE runs just fine on 9X. Leads me to wonder just how much Google really is trying to move into all available markets.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
In your rush to slam IE users, you've made a rather absurd argument. The computer illiterate don't use IE because they don't know how to use a computer. It's like saying that the illiterate read the Da Vinci Code instead of War and Peace. Perhaps you should have said "right-thinking computer experts" instead.
weapons of mass destruction
Buy It Cheap On eBay
Low Prices, New and Used
www.ebay.com
All that and you still use Windows!?
Oh, the irony...
I just installed Flash and Shockwave on someone else's computer and was very annoyed that Macromedia was pushing Yahoo Toolbar. The toolbar option was pre-checked. This lead to a discussion about how I started using Google in the first place. Google just gave me a search box on their website when everyone else was pushing "portals" at you. Google gave you what you wanted and nothing more. Now, they're pulling this shit. If I want a toolbar, I'll download a toolbar. It's time to shape up, Google.
If you spend monumental amounts of effort developing a web spider, search engine ranking system, and then a way to distribute the content over an arbitrary number of nodes on the Internet (in essence, replicating in opene source Google's entire reason for being), THEN add automated peer discovery to that, you'll have a pretty sweet search engine. For a week. Then some enterprising person is going to figure out that they can control your search engine results by taking your open source enginge, modifying it, and distributing it to a botnet -- redirecting X% of your search requests to Google AdSense or affiliate pages they control. And the best part -- what they are doing isn't even illegal!
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
I've been stoping updates to Acrobat Reader from installing Google's search bar for for months now.
zenray
It is rather easy to get around Google toolbar's popup blocker. Google it up!
Thanks for the information!
From a practical point of view it's good that these things are fixable. However, the obnoxious presumption of Adobe's settings remains offensive and lowers my opinion of the company.
I think the big picture here is that Adobe has about reached the point of diminishing returns when it comes to enticing people with better products - Photoshop for example, is about the best it can be, or at least improvements won't be as dramatic now, and similarly with other products. So the company tries to tighten its grip in other ways. Same thing with Microsoft and the new licensing severity. Commercial software is declining in the long run but in the meantime we're going to see more of this "squeeze more dollars" behavior.
I broke down and put the acroread application on my computer because the xpdf and stuff never seem to work right and it was great and all.. Well... I was over at a friends, an XP guy that didn't have the viewer on his XP box kind of in the fasion that I refuse to run the flash plugin. I was showing his kid (12 yrs old) a pdf, but I needed to install their reader and I says, "OK, check this out..." while it's installing. The goddamned thing installs and then starts hijacking the media/image viewing defaults on his maching and to impress me or something the installer opens these windows with all of his porn - thumbnail style. I don't even have a virtual desktop or console to flee to, & hafta frantically make her get the hell out while trying to close all this stuff with installer status indicators and porn everywhere. What in the....? That was totally lame.
I originally read that headline as "Google Blunders Toolbar With Adobe Apps". I'll just have wait and see if my mistake turns out prophetic or pathetic.
Yes, I am also annoyed that Apple has started forcing the bundle on everyone, but it isn't required. It's a bit hidden, but if you actually look over the downoload page for QuickTime, there is a nice link to the installer for just QuickTime. It is labeled "Quicktime Standalone Installer". To be extra nice, here is a direct link to that. http://www.apple.com/quicktime/download/standalone .html