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RFID Passports Raise Safety Concerns

CurtMonash writes "CNNMoney.com features a skeptical article about the US State Department's plans to soon issue RFID passports (currently being tested on State Department employees). One fear is that they can be hacked for information about you. And even if they can't, carrying around a little transmitter saying 'I'm an American! I'm an American!' isn't a fun and safe thing to do in all parts of the world." From the article: "Basically, you've given everybody a little radio-frequency doodad that silently declares 'Hey, I'm a foreigner,' says author and futurist Bruce Sterling, who lectures on the future of RFID technology. 'If nobody bothers to listen, great. If people figure out they can listen to passport IDs, there will be a lot of strange and inventive ways to exploit that for criminal purposes.'"

68 of 459 comments (clear)

  1. yeah by dolson · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah, that is important because I know when Americans visit say, China or India, they can blend right in with everyone else if they don't have that transmitter.

    1. Re:yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Americans aren't the only caucasians out there. RFID nicely allows somebody to identify the hated Americans from the nice Canadians (and most Europeans).

    2. Re:yeah by kickedfortrolling · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I suppose the worrying side of that is that weapons such as mines or explosives or even rockets could be RFID seeking, not just americans in general, but specific people/groups

      --
      --AlexC
      Just because I dont agree with climate change doesnt make me a troll
    3. Re:yeah by Potor · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about Chinese Americans visiting their homeland?

    4. Re:yeah by MrShaggy · · Score: 5, Funny

      And being said Canadian, I am all for making it much easier to spot the difference. GO BUSH GO!

      --
      I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
    5. Re:yeah by Goth+Biker+Babe · · Score: 2, Informative

      No it doesn't. Passports issued to Brits in the last few weeks have RFID chips. The excuse being given is that the US demanded it!

    6. Re:yeah by SCHecklerX · · Score: 2, Funny

      ok, how about an unattended claymore that is configured to go off when it sees the RFID? Didn't think of that, did ya!

    7. Re:yeah by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 2, Interesting

      And while I hate to be a bring-down, how long until we start seeing discrete RFID readers attached to personnel-sized IEDs in Iraq/Afghanistan/wherever the US invades/liberates next?

      You can have a thousand native citizens walk down a busy street, and the bomb doesn't go off until an American (or possibly, even a native with US embassy employee-ID) walks right past it.

      I know it's an essential part of the whole "keep 'em fat, stupid, scared and easily-trackable" agenda the US/UK governments have going, but I find it hard to believe the USA (especially!) is actually making it easier to identify its tourists and overseas personnel.

      --
      Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
    8. Re:yeah by xtracto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yah, I would welcome this, I remember a lot of times when I was in Mexico that, it was just after me and some friends knew that the people were from Canada or Europe that we wanted to be real friends.

      Of course, this was not difficult were I lived as, usually people from USA get stuck in Cancun or Los Cabos were they find all their beloved touristic heaven. It is only European (and sometimes Canadian) tourism the one we (in Mexico) call "tourism with culture" that gets a bit away from Cancun to see the Mayan ruins or Campeche fortresses/history and all the incredible historical and natural wonders that are the real marvels of Mexico.

      Of course the Estadounidenses dont know that because they are happy drinking Tequila and dancing until they fall in their expensive (not a lot for them of course) hotels and "Planet Hollywod" and "Hard Rock Cafe" (I have always wondered *why* do they bother to travel to Cancun if they are going to get into the same places they have in the USA).

      And, as I lived in Campeche, the blonds that arrived there were usually Europeans or Canadians (although CAnadians were more often found in La Paz which is close to Los Cabos, but without all the "touristic" commercialization)

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    9. Re:yeah by Otter · · Score: 5, Insightful
      As cherished as this notion is among Canadians in particular (after all traveling the world with an enormous maple leaf on your pack and every article of clothing is just the epitome of class and good taste), I've been to four continents in the last year and a half, and have never encountered a shred of anti-Americanism. This whole issue is nonsense driven by 1) idiot Americans who have never left the country, 2) idiot Americans projecting their own disdain for their neighbors onto foreigners and 3) Canadians. Anyway, even if you're concerned about this stuff, why not travel, make a good impression and improve the US's image.

      Meanwhile I see some guy here (you'll never guess from what country!) spinning a story of Americans pretending to be Canadian ON A CARIBBEAN FREAKING CRUISE! I'm sorry, if you're that stupid, don't leave home.

    10. Re:yeah by kerry-buckley · · Score: 2, Funny
      I know it's an essential part of the whole "keep 'em fat, stupid, scared and easily-trackable" agenda the US/UK governments have going, but I find it hard to believe the USA (especially!) is actually making it easier to identify its tourists and overseas personnel.

      Presumably it's part of this "war on tourism" that I keep hearing Bush talking about.
    11. Re:yeah by xtracto · · Score: 2, Informative

      Oh and by the way, the city of campeche has a history of fighting against Pirates. I just tought this comment would go with current poll (and who does not likes pirates :))

      Oh, and nobody is paying me for posting all this, haha.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    12. Re:yeah by TRS80NT · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And there are Asian-Americans, some of whom visit Asia.


      --
      Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.
    13. Re:yeah by smittyoneeach · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But how hard is it to put the passport in an absorbent sleeve?

      And, for added juice, an additional transmitter in the absorbent sleeve announcing that you're CowboyNeal! Who says the era of Cowboy Diplomacy is over?

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    14. Re:yeah by AcidLacedPenguiN · · Score: 3, Funny

      that works out fine until someone asks them what city they're from. . .
      "erm, Upper Canada city. yeah that's it."

      --
      disclaimer: I've been known to store numbers in my ass for which to dig out when quantities are required.
    15. Re:yeah by MaxInBxl · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I've lived in 6 countries (in 3 continents) including the US. I'm now currently in Europe where I'd say that there is a general disdain (not hatred) of Americans. I'd venture that this is due mainly to political issues.

      From what I can tell, american tourists are not always well regarded by the locals because they are loud-mouthed and arrongant. Now yes, I will agree that there are some VERY loud american tourists, but for everyone one of them how many are there that go un-noticed?

      Personnaly although I'm not very fond of your politics, your president and some of your louder country-men I go by the mantra that if an american has taken the steps to actually leave his country, if only brielfy, to see what else there is in the world then I should treat them with a minimum of respect and try and give a good impression of Europeans. For those fo you that enjoy that kind of thing: I'm French, feel free to flame on :)

    16. Re:yeah by Moofie · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because the solution to our problems is MORE racism and bigotry. Yeah.

      --
      Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
    17. Re:yeah by aclark · · Score: 5, Insightful
      In that case you either didn't go to Europe, or else you did and walked around with your eyes, ears and mouth shut.

      I'd have to say that walking around with your mouth shut, or at least under control, is a pretty good way to avoid looking like an idiot anywhere you go. It saves you from making yourself (and the country you represent) look like an ass.

      Having just come back from Europe (Rome, Nice, Paris & London), as an American (from Texas no less), I had nothing but good experiences with everyone I met. I can't say the same about the other idiot Americans who also happened to be staying at my hotel. In typical movie fashion they got louder and louder as the unfortunate hotel clerk tried to help them find a restaurant to eat at late at night. The more she had trouble understanding them they just got more irritated, annoying and bigoted. Standing there at the counter I felt so ashamed.

      This isn't to say that Americans don't have a negative image in the world, but overall, people are smart and realize that not everyone conforms to the stereotype. My advice is to remember that you're not at home when you travel. Things don't go according to plan. Understand that you will have a hard time making yourself understood, but be polite. Don't leave the country if you're a rude, pompous, arrogant asshole (or leave and don't come back).

      --
      Ashley Clark
    18. Re:yeah by Lurker187 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Damn, you beat me to it, but I do have a refinement: put foil inside the covers of the passport, so you can only read it when it's open. Then it really only does what it's supposed to, verify the printed contents. If someone's already got your passport open, your chances of hiding anything from them aren't very good anyway.

      --
      [command INSERTWITTYQUIP failed: insufficient wit]
    19. Re:yeah by call+-151 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Two things:

      1) Most people in Europe, Austalia, NZ and Asia that I have met realize that the Americans that they are likely to meet are not the ones who voted for Bush. The coasts have a much higher density of passport holders than the "Heartland," for example. (Active passport holders favored Kerry to Bush 58% to 35%.)

      2) The "obnoxious American" stereotype is partly a result of biased sampling. If there are two Americans somewhere, and one is a fat, obnoxious, non-local-language speaking lout with a Hawaiian shirt and a camcorder and the other is a quiet, sensible, local-language speaker, the locals may not even notice that the second is an American, let alone remember the encounter. I am an American, and when I am in Europe, I am frequently mistaken as being Dutch, perhaps because I have a beard, a bicycle and can communicate passibly in any one of about five standard European languages, even if I don't happen to speak the local language. I also usually do not go out of my way to correct this misconception...

      --
      It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
    20. Re:yeah by afidel · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to Schneier the State Department already plans (and has since sometime last year) to include a RF shield so the chip can only be read while the passport is open and they are encrypting the data on the RFID.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    21. Re:yeah by HermanAB · · Score: 2, Funny

      Hmm, the difference between a Canadian and an American is about 3dB, so it not too difficult to detect them...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
    22. Re:yeah by jacksonj04 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Which leads to the question, why not just make them a smart chip with contacts? Slot the passport into a reader and it does the same as the RFID does.

      RFID only has the edge if the data has to be read at high speed or where putting something in actual contact with a reader is awkward (Packages etc). There are a couple of exceptions (Such as 'hidden' door locks like at my school, to stop idiots filling card readers with chewing gum) but for the vast majority of cases it's just "Ooh new technology, lets use!"

      I'm all in favour of digital passports, but RFID?

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    23. Re:yeah by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or else you did and walked around with your eyes, ears and mouth shut.

      Well, I find that mouth shut and ears open does tend to improve one's chances of making a positive impression.

      Unfortunately, there is a small minority of my fellow Americans who seem to get this backwards. And what comes out of their mouths tends to be stupid and ugly.

      Remember the run up to the war, the big stink about France? France's crime: disagreeing with us about strategy (all the while cooperating with us on the parts of the strategy they agreed on). It's impact on us: nil. We went ahead and did what we pleased, and at least the part of the war that was within our planning horizon went as perfectly as it was possible to have it go. So our reason for acting like France was some kind of bully that pushing us around was pretty lame.

      This was hardly America's worst hour, but it may well be our most embarassing.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    24. Re:yeah by Conare · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is actually a very good question. The answer is twofold:

      1) Most contact chips don't last past 5 years, and they wanted a longer validity (10 years in the US case)
      2) The chip specification was for the 28 (?) Visa-waiver countries and each of them can have a different passport form factor, so it would be very difficult/expensive to implement a single contact based reader or set of readers for them all. Contactless solves this issue and allows each country to keep whatever form factor they want.

      The specifications for this were acutally developed by the International Civil Aviation Organization. Anti-Skimming is not a part of any of those specifications, however data encryption schemes are.

      OK OK here you go, but you will have to buy them:

      http://www.icao.int/

      --
      Stop Continental Drift! Reunite Gondwanaland!
    25. Re:yeah by feepness · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Of course the Estadounidenses dont know that because they are happy drinking Tequila and dancing until they fall in their expensive (not a lot for them of course) hotels and "Planet Hollywod" and "Hard Rock Cafe" (I have always wondered *why* do they bother to travel to Cancun if they are going to get into the same places they have in the USA).

      Plus I hear they constantly stereotype people from other countries! Stupid Americans!

      Sorry, but you don't sound like someone it's particularly worthwhile being "real" friends with. Tell me, how do you treat your "fake" friends? What if I'm one of them and don't know it? Guess I don't need to worry about either, being born in the wrong country and all.

    26. Re:yeah by pianophile · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm French, feel free to flame on :)

      How about an anti-flame? I'm an American that loves France. On behalf of my country I would like to apologize for all that anti-French, "surrender monkey", "freedom fries", etc. stuff. All of that was/is shameful. Yes, we helped France a lot in WW1 and WW2, but we wouldn't have survived our Revolution without your help, and thanks for staying out of our Civil War, too, by the way. I hope that one day our countries are once again the great friends and allies we once were. I love your wine, your food, your films, your women :-)

      Vive la France!

      --

      'Your brain is God.' -- Dr. Timothy Leary
    27. Re:yeah by jonin · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How exactly does that work? If the coasts have higher rates of passports (one would assume that means they travel more) and they tend to be blue states, wouldn't that suggest most travelers including the large, obnoxious ones are more likely be liberal?

  2. Save tinfoil hat for passport by f0dder · · Score: 5, Funny

    So if I wrap my RFID laden passport in tinfoil I am safe right? right?

    1. Re:Save tinfoil hat for passport by alanxyzzy · · Score: 4, Informative
      Bruce Schneier thinks that it will be OK

      ...

      The new design also includes a thin radio shield in the cover, protecting the chip when the passport is closed. More good security.

      Assuming that the RFID passport works as advertised (a big "if," I grant you), then I am no longer opposed to the idea.

      ...

  3. Even if it can be hacked? by blindbug · · Score: 5, Insightful
    One fear is that they can be hacked for information about you. And even if they can't...
    It can... and it will be... period.
  4. RFID security by joe+155 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I know that having your personal data stolen isn't any fun, it'll be worse if they put biometric data in there as well (I don't know what data the US passports currently have, in the UK we'll be having that put in soon). but for me a bigger concern is that they can be infected with a virus, which could quite easily be used to cause havok with the computers at airports and possibly bring the whole system down... the register reported on the proof of concept here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/03/15/rfid_tags_ infected_by_virus/

    --
    *''I can't believe it's not a hyperlink.''
  5. Just one more justification... by ralf1 · · Score: 3, Funny

    For my new lead lined briefcase. Who cares if it weighs 125 pounds.

    --
    "Would you, could you, with a goat?" Dr Seuss
  6. What's the range? by gasmonso · · Score: 2, Informative

    How far are you broadcasting in the first place? If its like 10 feet who cares? Now in good practice, whenever I travel I leave my passport in the safe at the hotel. Not really a good idea to walk around with it ;)

    http://religiousfreaks.com/
    1. Re:What's the range? by Sloppy · · Score: 2, Insightful
      How far are you broadcasting in the first place? If its like 10 feet who cares?

      What a convenient tool for implementing an application named "proximity fuse."

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    2. Re:What's the range? by Phillup · · Score: 2, Interesting

      What a convenient tool for implementing an application named "proximity fuse."

      Better yet "minimum target count".

      Place a bomb at desired location... have it count the number of 'mericans in the vicinity... when the number exceeds a certain threshold... detonate.

      Cool new way to make sure you don't waste explosive!

      Other variations abound.

      Place bomb inside but trigger at doorway. Count number of individuals that pass through door. Detonate when target amount reached. Of course this method can't account for persons leaving vs. entering... but you get the idea.

      Hey... you could even have it wait for a specific passport! Great for those times when you need to knock off someone and collect insurance while making it look like random violence.

      Gotta remember to thank the state department for such a convenient tool...

      --

      --Phillip

      Can you say BIRTH TAX
  7. I am a free man by LiquidCoooled · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Barring the bloody obvious target painted on you, they say in the article:

    They'll have radio frequency identification (RFID) tags and are meant to cut down on human error of immigration officials, speed the processing of visitors and safeguard against counterfeit passports.

    Human error will still occur in whichever system a human is involved in.

    Couldn't they get all the same benefits with a simple barcode?
    Does the RFID hold just your ID number for lookup on the database or is the RFID part now full identification?

    I hope this doesn't go ahead (like the UK now isn't going ahead with its ID scheme) because whilst RFID might make tracking warehouse stock easy, its not great for humans.
    Just because the technology exists doesn't mean we should use it for everything.

    --
    liqbase :: faster than paper
  8. Is This Madness? by blueZhift · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Surely they cannot be unaware of how this could be exploited by those wishing to do harm to Americans, therefore I can only reach the conclusion that rfid passports are being pushed as a way for the government to ultimately track people in general. It would begin with being able to track foreigners and later as rfid makes its way into things like driver's licenses and auto plates, it could be used to track citizens. This is probably a goal of governments everywhere these days. First they'll tell you it's to stop terrorists, but with a flick of the switch, tracking citizens will be a breeze. I know the effective range is pretty short, but I can imagine that it would not be too hard for the government to build out an effective network, certainly in the most densely populated cities. It might even be able to piggy back on cell phone tower locations, so ordinary people wouldn't even know it was there. Ironically, true terrorists will be able to easily defeat this kind of tracking.

  9. Good Business Opportunity by Dr_LHA · · Score: 4, Funny

    This gives me a great idea for a new business opportunity! Sell RFID tags to American tourists that broadcast to the world "I AM A CANADIAN".

  10. What happens if the RFID doesnt work by ConsumerOfMany · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Lets say you burn out the RFID using something like This

    Will you still be allowed to travel with just the written portion of the passport. Hell, just go around burning up other peoples passports and the riots will soon begin in the security line....

    1. Re:What happens if the RFID doesnt work by jcupitt65 · · Score: 3, Informative
      The UK's ID card regulations include a £1,000 fine if you know your card to be defective but do not report it :-(

      You will be required to attend an enrolment centre with some form of identifying material - bank statements, credit cards, driving licence or birth certificate, who knows what. Then you will be fingerprinted, photographed and the iris in your eye will be measured. You will give the authorities 49 pieces of information about yourself. If you don't, you may be fined up to £2,500. Additional fines of up to £2,500 may be levied every time you fail to comply.

      If you fail to inform the police or Home Office when you lose your card, or if it becomes defective, you face a fine of up to £1,000. If you find someone else's card and do not immediately hand it in, you may have committed a criminal offence punishable by imprisonment for up to two years, or a fine, or both. And you will be fined £1,000 if you fail to inform the NIR of any change of address. You will also be expected to tell the authorities your previous addresses. Truly the government will be able to say with all the menace of the underworld enforcer: "We know where you live."

      If you don't inform the register of significant changes to your personal life, or any errors they have made, you will face a fine of up to £1,000. Astonishingly, you may also face a fine if you fail to submit to being reinterviewed, rephotographed, refingerprinted and rescanned.

      http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1817436,00.h tml
  11. Easy Way To Stop Skimming by Valthan · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why not just have the case lined with tin-foil or a thin metal sheet of some kind. Then when it is needed to be checked you have to open the case and/or take it out. These cases can be distributed with the Passports. In my experience with RFID wrapping it in tin-foil alone stops it from working (My work makes me use one to get into the office, yes I have tested this)

    --
    --Valthan
  12. Re:Confused? by Mayhem178 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As I understand it, RFID cards don't do anything until they're exposed to an electromagnetic field, which gives them just enough juice to fire off a message, usually an identity code. Unless I've been completely misinformed, you'd have to generate quite the field to even have a chance of reading one of these things at a distance. I know that my RFID card doesn't work until it's within a coupla inches of the appropriate reader.

    The whole "it's broadcasting all of your personal information!!!!" hype is a bunch of FUD. The only way it could really be a security risk is if the card itself was stolen, and then it's really no different than having your S.S. card or driver's license stolen.

    --

    "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

  13. With every technology advance by DarkDragonVKQ · · Score: 2, Insightful

    With every technology advance in security, there will be those who break it. And then another technology advance comes, that will be broken. We've been playing this cat and mouse game for nearly 5000 years. Nothing is going change.

    --
    "I thought what I'd do was I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes" ~ Laughing Man - GITS:SAC
  14. Get yours now! by Chris+Pimlott · · Score: 4, Insightful

    US passports are good for 10 years from the date of issue. Get or renew yours now, before RFID becomes required.

  15. Re:Hows about.. by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 2, Interesting
    legit people can use it to check against records, and illigit people are buggered
    For someone sitting around with the gear to query RFIDs for illicit puurposes, getting any response at all is a good thing. Even if it's a useless string, the fact that it's there paints you as an American national with your passport on you. There are very many ways to exploit that information.
  16. Enterprising RFID Entrepeneur by dbc001 · · Score: 2, Informative

    My guess is that some enterprising RFID Entrepeneur got into the Old Boys Network and landed some massive contract. Here in Missouri we have s imilar situation - Within just a few months of the state mandating increased ethanol in all gasoline, the governor's brother was found to have invested a substantial amount of money in ethanol (Matt Blunt is governor if your curious, see here for info on the ethanol scandal). Their orwellian response was simply to state that "there is no conflict of interest here."

    It would be nice to know who got the contract, what city they live in and what relationships they have with government.

  17. Yeah well. Not good. by botzi · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And even if they can't, carrying around a little transmitter saying 'I'm an American! I'm an American!' isn't a fun and safe thing to do in all parts of the world."

    So, the issue, you consider is that the transmitter is giving away your nationality and NOT that it's a....I dunno. a BLOODY TRANSMITTER?( worst case scenaria, and I'm really going off the top of my head here, how about professional passport thieves:"Hey, there is a city building with 24 passports in there, let's see which suits are empty at the moment, and do some damage."(I'd think anybody smart enough to detect the signal would be smart enough to block it afterwards)). I'd be appalled if other countries follow suit, I fear that they will. Let's just hope that there is enough damage done the moment they try to use RFID's so the launch fails.

    --
    1. No sig. 2. ???? 3. Profit!!!
  18. Can you imagine the terrorism weapons? by KDN · · Score: 2

    A bomb in a cafe that only goes off when there are over a certain number of americans in range. Or, if you can tell, when a certain number of american military are within range. Or a diplomat.

  19. Why RFID and not smart cards? by BeBoxer · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I just do not understand the insistance/fascination with RFID in this case. Think about the situation when these RFID's are supposed to be used. You are entering a country via immigration, and you hand your passport to the immigration agent. There is no need and no benefit to involving a radio. The agent could just as easily slip your passport into a reader which uses actual metal contacts as wave it over the RFID scanner. It would probably cost less, and would have none of the security concerns (valid or not) that the RFID chips have.

    I can only think of two possibilities. One is just good old fashioned corruption. It's no secret that the GOP has pretty much put a 'For Sale' sign out front of the Capital, so it may just be a way to send a bunch of money to a valuable 'doner'. Or they have some requirement which needs RFID, but is being kept secret.

    I suppose they could almost completely automate letting US citizens back into the country. Will I be able to use my RFID passport to scan in to the country just like I do with my work badge to get into the machine room or co-lo? I can see benefits for having an express lane at immigration for citizens with RFID passports so we don't have to wait behind all the riff-raff :-) Just walk up to the gate, wave your passport at it, and 'beep', you're back in the country.

    1. Re:Why RFID and not smart cards? by Phillup · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I just do not understand the insistance/fascination with RFID in this case.
      Because smart cards were invented in the 70s and the patent has expired. Thus not putting money into the pocket of your "constituents*" as fast as a patented technology would.

      So... they aren't the ones that did the lobbying.

      When it comes to politics... "why" is always easy.

      Just follow the money.

      *constituent: the people that bribed you
      --

      --Phillip

      Can you say BIRTH TAX
  20. Re:Confused? by Mayhem178 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As I understand it, in order to read an RFID chip, you have to be close. We're talking a matter of inches. So, not only would the guy with the reader have to know exactly where your card is on your person, but he'd have to shove the reader practically right up against you. I think you'd probably notice if he started rubbing you with his suitcase.

    I'm not saying it's impossible, but I'm not losing any sleep at night over my RFID card.

    --

    "You will pay for your lack of vision..." - Emperor Palpatine to Ray Charles

  21. Re:Confused? by Bastian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You have it right. I used to go to a school which used RFID keycards to open doors. In that particular case, it wasn't even a matter of inches - the card had to be within about two centimeters of the reader.

    It would take a heck of a lot more juice than what those readers put out to make something that's actually useful for reading these passport chips remotely. Assuming the effective range on the readers I've used was exactly 2cm, the inverse square law tells us that doubling the power my chip out (and keepin the reader's receiver at the same power) would increase the range to 2.83cm, quadrupling it would get us to 4cm, octupling it would get us up to 5.66cm. . . and by the time you get to the point where a potential passport snooper isn't making himself *really* suspicious by running around an airport waving his briefcase next to everyone's baggage, you've got yourself quite an RFID reader. And then you throw on the shielding that's being put into these RFID passports and it's back to square one.

    Not saying it's impossible to make a device that effectively identifies Americans by their passports, just saying that everyone should probably put their tinfoil hats on now because a device like that would probably give you one heck of a headache.

  22. Re:Confused? by Shaper_pmp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's only passive until you bring it within range of a receiver.

    That's secure in the same way as an object that's only invisible until you look at it, or a door that's only locked until you try the handle.

    Passive RFID chips are likely harder to detect at range than active ones (for obvious reasons), but no-one's answered the question yet: Why do we need ranged querying at all?

    Much, much safer would be a normal smart-card chip (like the one in your credit card) that requires physical contact to read anything. Frankly, once somone's got their hands on your passport it doesn't matter if it's a smart-card or normal paper one - they can easily find out things about you from it (or just nick it) at that point.

    Allowing ranged querying seems to offer no really compelling benefits, and opens up a whole can of worms on issues like personal security, remotely tracking/identifying people without their knowledge, you name it.

    --
    Everything in moderation, including moderation itself
  23. Not really a security concern. by MCraigW · · Score: 2, Informative
    Austrailia, New Zealand and Singapore already have RFID passports. The information that can be obtained from the chip is encrypted, and will only be readable using the public-key which is encoded in a machine readable format inside the passport http://www.dfat.gov.au/dept/passports/. Doesn't seem like there is a security vulnerability.

    People fear what they don't understand.

  24. Re:Confused? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The distance is more like 69 feet.

    See http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=191202&cid =15719109

  25. Re:The Department... by db32 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Valthan, you are a whiner. 1) That is a valid reference that people use to laugh about the way northerners speak. Its not even just Canadians though usually applied mostly to Canadians...almost EVERY northerner (specially north west) I have ever spoken to or hung out with has had the same accent. It was not started by southpark, it was started by northerners (including canadians) saying Aboot and Eh alot. In fact last time I had to deal with high level tech support it was a canadian guy...before the call was over I almost asked him to say "aboot" because he had said "eh" a dozen times already...but he said it without me asking and I about fell out of my chair (I hadn't slept in a few days fighting its problem so I was easily amused). Deal with it, many do say "aboot" and "eh" quite frequently. 2) You are right, with the exception of it makes Canada look like a terribly nice place to move to. So call it a real estate advertisement.

    --
    The only change I can believe in is what I find in my couch cushions.
  26. Re:Good Business Opportunity by dr_dank · · Score: 2, Funny

    It could be sold as part of the Canadian Disguise Kit, containing:

    $50 in Canadian Tire Money
    Milk in a bag
    Those Groucho glasses with the fake nose and moustache on them (trust me on this)
    Ticket stubs from a recent Gordon Lightfoot concert
    and a mini Canadian phrase book

    --
    Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
  27. Re:Could you... by tehcyder · · Score: 2, Funny
    Could you or I get one of these new Passports and get it home... and proceed to slam it with a hammer?
    I think when the Customs man noticed the sound of jangling little bits of metal and saw the hammer-shaped indentation on the passport, he might get suspicious.
    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  28. Re:I don't think it would be that much of a proble by RedShoeRider · · Score: 2, Informative
    Yes, they do.

    And from lots of experience, you have to be *right* on top of it for the reader to scan the tag. Usually they're either between the shoulders or by one of the hips. But if it's injected incorrectly or migrates, you literally have to rub the wand over the animal like you're combing it to find the damn thing. Take a beagle, for instance. If the chip is on its hip and you're scanning its ribs (all of 6" away), it won't pick it up.

    So while we can argue the need of having RFID tags in passports in the first place, picking them up at a distance? Not going to happen without enough wattage to cook a chicken.

    --

    Chris Knight is my hero.

  29. Re:real cause... Re:yeah by rawdot · · Score: 2, Insightful
    The real problem is not their identification but the reason they are not liked.

    Another problem is people who generalize about individuals based on their nationality.

    Knowing that someone is a United States' citizen should not be the basis for inferring that that individual supports the U.S. government's current administration or its policies, foreign or domestic.

    Should I assume any Italian supports Berlusconi? That any German is a member of the CDU? That Tony Blair is every Brit's personal spokesmodel? That any Chinese is a fervent Communist?

    I believe we all generalize and stereotype to help us maintain a tractably sized model of our environment. But to act on those stereotypes when interacting with individuals is unsophisticated and unfortunate.

    Cheers,
    Richard

  30. Re:Confused? by katsiris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Since RFID tags use the transmitting signal to send a reply, the strength and therefore distance that it will transmit or echo is dependant largely on the signal of the detector. Obviously the tags themselves can't rebroadcast an infinitely large signal, but the fact that you needed to get close to the doors at your school is a design feature of the doors and not a limitation of the technology. After all, they don't want doors unlocking just because someone is walking by...

  31. Re:The most workable solution? by Ian+Peon · · Score: 2, Informative
    That's exactly what they're doing.

    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/rfid _passport_s_1.html


    The new design also includes a thin radio shield in the cover, protecting the chip when the passport is closed.
  32. come on,we're not all that stupid! by /dev/trash · · Score: 2, Funny

    Everyone knows it's Alaska.

  33. Re:Confused? by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    by the time you get to the point where a potential passport snooper isn't making himself *really* suspicious by running around an airport waving his briefcase next to everyone's baggage, you've got yourself quite an RFID reader.

    Of all the possible threat models, you've picked the least likely. If you are in an airport you can probably just look at the guy's luggage tags.

    No, the threat is out in the real world where there is plenty of opportunity to disguise super-huge equipment. Like a doorway where the entire frame is a field generator and detector and the target is still only a few inches away, or the entire trunk of the car parked along the roadside, or along the sidewalk where the wall of that warehouse you are strolling by is just a thin piece of wood and on the other side is a some big-ass (and relatively cheap since there is no need to miniaturize) detection equipment.

    Not saying it's impossible to make a device that effectively identifies Americans by their passports, just saying that everyone should probably put their tinfoil hats on now because a device like that would probably give you one heck of a headache.

    Yeah, because humans have that 6th sense - the one that lets us detect EM waves. If you are lucky, maybe your watch will stop working, or your cell phone will drop a call and crash. Neither of which are particularly obvious clues to the layman that he's been whacked with a ton of EM.

    BTW, here's a guy demonstrating a system to detect these RFIDs from at least 50 ft and who claims it goes a lot further. Note that whether or not he actually reads any of the data from the RFID is irrelevant, the fact that you've got one in the first place is plenty of information all on its own. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/000798 .html

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  34. Re:Confused? by natet · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You are basing your assumptions on the fact that there will be no advances in the technology involved with RFID readers. The fact that you had to be within a very short range for your school tag to be read doesn't mean that it will always be the case, or that your school didn't just go with cheap tech instead of a nicer reader. Further, the field to power the tag itself may be small, but what's the broadcast range of the tag? Could someone with a passive reader pick up the signal from your tag being read at a border? The research mentioned in the article seems to indicate this is possible.

    Now, I must point out, that this article is based on old assumptions. As someone else pointed out, Bruce Schneier has been talking about these passports for some time, and has provided a number of suggestions to the government about how it can handle many of the issues he has raised. The current implementation calls for shielding in the covers of the passport that would render it unreadable when closed. If that works as advertised, then many of the issues that Bruce has with the passports are nullified.

    --
    IANAL... But I play one on /.
  35. Re:Can already spot a foreigner a mile away by MCraigW · · Score: 2
    they are a head and shoulders taller than most people (except in Germany!), secondly they dress funny and thirdly they are loud mouthed

    Ahhh... racist stereotypes. I suppose you think that all the Polish are stupid, that all the British have bad teeth, that all Irish are drunken potato eaters, that all Germans are Nazis, etc. The US has more than 220,000,000 people of a variety of races living it, and they all have their own statures and personalities which vary greatly.

  36. Re:endangering civilians by MCraigW · · Score: 4, Informative
    Using RFID for passports is not only stupid but completely irresponsible. It would put anyone in danger, especially traveling abroad. It doesn't take alot of brains to imagine the worst how this can be exploited by terrorists and rogue forces. Hopefully our government will recognize and stop this crazy proposal in time.

    As I stated in an earlier post, Austrailia, New Zealand and Singapore already have RFID passports. The information that can be obtained from the chip is encrypted, and will only be readable using the public-key which is encoded in a machine readable format inside the passport http://www.dfat.gov.au/dept/passports/. The plan in the U.S. is the to do the same thing, as well as putting a metal lining in the cover of the passport so that the RFID cannot be read when the passport is closed. See http://www.aimglobal.org/members/news/anmviewer.as p?a=394&print=no