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Using Electricity to Heal
ganjadude writes to tell us that while the idea of using electricity to heal wounds was first reported 150 years ago by Emil Du Bois-Reymond, modern scientists may have found a way to practically apply this idea. From the article: "The researchers grew layers of mouse cells and larger tissues, such as corneas, in the lab. After 'wounding' these tissues, they applied varying electric fields to them, and found they could accelerate or completely halt the healing process depending on the orientation and strength of the field."
After 'wounding' these tissues, they applied varying electric fields to them, and found they could accelerate or
completely halt the healing process depending on the orientation and strength of the field.
"Hey Marty, lets start out with 1.21 gigawatts right about... Here."
"Interesting. It looks like that stopped the healing process."
"Hello... McFly?"
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Shocked, I tell you!
... watch this!
*sticks finger in socket*
NO CARRIER
Maybe those people (idots) who kept strapping magnets to themselves knew something after all. Although given the findings it seems equally likely that they were impairing the healing process. (yes, I know the article is about electricity, electro-magnetism people)
Philosophy.
Now when we cut our fingers building computers, we can just electocute ourselfs with the power cables!
Does this mean that Magnet therapy has a grain of truth in it?
Once doctors are using guided electric fields to assist healing, how will corporations which spill uncontrolled electric fields among people deny that their fields affect human tissue? Or will they just claim credit for the healing "they've already been offering free for generations", and start tacking a medical charge on our bills?
--
make install -not war
more gadgets!
Doolittle :
Bomb no.20 : To explode of course.
this is what we might call a "shocking" discovery. but seriously, try the veal...
Err, wrong game.
A lot of the "New Age" folks say they can see a person's aura. A lot of these "New Age" folks are really hot girls! So, this is what you do: you grab this article and tell them that you believe, now. Let her just start talking about this stuff. Then, complain about some ailment that requires her "healing" touch. Lastly, ask to try it on her.
Let things progress: touching , kissing, clothes off, etc...
Enjoy!
I know NOTHING, I know NOTHING
The advantages of this far outweigh the potential for abuse: deliberatly preventing a wound from healing...
The only problem with this is that now we need to put surgeries on the top floor of hospitals. Then there's the problem of having to wait for a lightning storm. Let's not even get into the extra staff you need to turn the big wheel and lift the operating table through the roof.
I suppose we'll also see extra insurance needed for the wear and tear on the surgeon's voicebox when he yells, "Liiiiiife! Liiiiiiife DO YOU HEAR ME!? GIVE MY CREATION ........... LIIIIIIIIIIFE!!"
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
while the idea of using electricity to heal wounds was first reported 150 years ago by Emil Du Bois-Reymond, modern scientists may have found a way to practically apply this idea.
I hope this new method obviates the need for bolts in the neck.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Forget about 150 years, down in Texas they use electric chairs to fix up some really sick people.
And psychiatric wards have been using it to fix up people who were sick in the head in the early half of the century.
Even the police and mean old ladies use it to fix other people and pets. Them doctors are a little behind.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
On second thought, there are probably minors reading this, so I won't give the URL of the B&D web site I stumbled across last week.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
A friend of mine (now deceased, rest his soul, he couldn't beat the cancer) had a treatment along these lines about a year ago to help heal some sort of lesions on his skin (may have been bed sores, I don't recall). It was a device that he'd put over the affected area and it applied voltage to the skin, adjustable by him. I'm not sure if it was for healing or pain control, but it worked. He showed it to me a couple times, when I put it on my hand it felt like a mild version of a 9-volt battery on the tongue.
This guy discovered immortality with magnets.
0 6/07/1421238&mode=nocomment
http://www.alexchiu.com/
Damn, they even interviewed him on slashdot.
http://interviews.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/
I don't believe in that electricity to heal crap! Now, the layin of hands, there's a healin' remedy!
Nurse Chapel, the anabolic protoplaser, please.
.. you have been to a physical therapist. My physical therapist used electricity on my shoulder to help it heal up some. I think she said it was supposed to stimulate something.. actually it just tingled and felt weird, but now I no longer have shoulder problems....
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
The genes may have been identified, but there are patents out on the pulsing of DC across wounds by placing electrodes both laterally and diametrically on opposite side of the wounds and by holding one electrode steady while moving the other around.
I analysed a patent recently that dealt with this as part of a question in a preliminary round of interviews.
I can't remember the patent number, but basically, if they try to patent the actual therapy, they are going to have problems because the patent I am describing is something like 15 years old already.
I'm gonna need a spec.
That's actually quite an awesome paper. It seems that when a wound is made, it makes a low resistance shunt across skin, which normally has a voltage difference across it. This stimulates wound healing activity. The current peaks at 10 microA cm-2 and persisted at 4-8 microA cm-2, with all the current vector pointing towards the wound center. This paper shows not only that that effect is easily demonstrated in vitro, but what are the molecular mediators of it, see the original article here.
-BilZ0r www.ilikethings.net
... from history? If you read about Dr. Frankenstein, you will find that this medling in the unknown will lead to nothing but misery. I hope Bush veto's any work in this area.
----- There are two kinds of people in this world, my friend; those with loaded guns, and those who dig.
Dr. Becker was crucified for expressing these "views"
Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
While I am fascinated by genuine scientific research into such effects, and interested by the insights into cellular and genetic mechanics described in the article, I shiver to think of how news like this might reverberate across the large communities of pseudo-science loons and snake-oil salesmen that lurk in the dark corners of the Internet.
" Electr1city curez, as seen |n New Scienti5t m4gazine. G3t electr|cal d3vice, cur3s all d1sease including ere
Zap.
There's already a company that's commercializing this - http://www.biofisica.com/. They have some pretty interesting information on their site for anyone interested in more detail. I'm not associated with them in anyway, just happened to see them present at an event once.
No doubt this report will be hyped by the new-age weirdos that are always looking for miracles cures or reasons for paranoia. Why do these articles never EVER tell anything meaningful - like for example the strenght and orientation of the field they used with some simple data tables and statistics? Who has access to some weird specialist journal with a 1000USD subscrition to get the raw data? New Scientist no.1 Science Magazine, yeah right! - science isn't about wild speculation and hype - its about rigorous examination and critical thinking. I wouldn't be suprised ones other labs try to reproduce the effect it gets debunked.
www.tribalnetworks.org - helping tribal people around the world to own their own means of high-tech communications
how will this help John Bobbit?
'God-Damn-it Jim, I am a doctor not a generator'
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them.
I've heard stories about how the medical profession was so enamored with radioactive tools for healing. Xrays to look inside the body. The way radiation exposure could kill unwanted bacteria. The cool soothing greenish glow of radioactive clocks and other tools. They came up with implementations of using radiation before understanding what it was doing. Today, looking back at the lack of understanding seems crazy; we'd never do something like that again. Would we?
Are we in fact going to do the same thing with electricity here? Are we really understanding why these mice are being cured or are we just satisfied to have a technique that appears to work? I don't mean to be cynical. Curing the impossible seems like a great thing. But will we be reading about how a quick emag arthritis treatment today resulted in the creation of Alzheimer's v2.0 tomorrow?
IMHO, a workable implementation is great, but full understanding would be better.
They should have titled their report, The Reanimation of Dead Tissue just for a laugh.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0688001238/
He was widely derided as a wacko. What has changed that makes this so new and wonderful now?
About 30 minutes ago I looked myself up in the mathematics genealogy project and discovered I was a 'descendant' of Paul Du Bois-Reymond. I'd never heard of this guy before. And now suddenly I'm reading about his brother on Slashdot. Weird!
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
"(idots) who kept strapping magnets to themselves"
I am interested in this new Apple product you have mentioned, the iDot, and how it is affected by having magnets strapped to it. Where can I read more about it?
(Worst. Typo nitpick. Ever.)
because selling life is not profitable.
death is much more profitable.
http://www.papimi.gr/early.htm
One strange thing about this is that it would not really heal cells, but the disease wouldn't be active anymore.
http://www.tv.com/the-simpsons/theres-no-disgrace- like-home/episode/1289/summary.html
If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people
For the curious, here's the research abstract from the publication in Nature:
Electrical signals control wound healing through phosphatidylinositol-3-OH kinase-big gamma and PTEN
Wound healing is essential for maintaining the integrity of multicellular organisms. In every species studied, disruption of an epithelial layer instantaneously generates endogenous electric fields, which have been proposed to be important in wound healing. The identity of signalling pathways that guide both cell migration to electric cues and electric-field-induced wound healing have not been elucidated at a genetic level. Here we show that electric fields, of a strength equal to those detected endogenously, direct cell migration during wound healing as a prime directional cue. Manipulation of endogenous wound electric fields affects wound healing in vivo. Electric stimulation triggers activation of Src and inositol-phospholipid signalling, which polarizes in the direction of cell migration. Notably, genetic disruption of phosphatidylinositol-3-OH kinase-gamma (PI(3)Kgamma) decreases electric-field-induced signalling and abolishes directed movements of healing epithelium in response to electric signals. Deletion of the tumour suppressor phosphatase and tensin homolog (PTEN) enhances signalling and electrotactic responses. These data identify genes essential for electrical-signal-induced wound healing and show that PI(3)Kgamma and PTEN control electrotaxis.
20 volts
ZZZZT
Are you healed?
I don't think so
100 volts
ZZZZZZT
Are you healed?
Hey that hurt's
200 volts
ZZZZZZT
Are you healed?
mooaaaannnn
300 volts
ZZZZZZZZT
Are you healed?
YES, YES, YES can I leave now?
The Bemer 3000 electromagnetic therapy has been around a while now and is used in a lot of therapies, particularly in sports where rapid healing from injury is needed. I've heard many good things about it and from the evidence I've seen it's not just some quack idea made into a product like many other things we're used to. Quite expensive for now, probably because of patents. Once they expire expect to see floods of cheap knock-offs come to the market.
He wrote "The Body Electric" decades ago. (still in print on Amazon, etc.) He did grounbreaking research at a Veterans Hospital demonstrating that very weak currents had profound practical effects on real patients. This book is fascinating... Everything from why our arms and legs develop to the same lengths (Ever wonder how?) to knitting bones that won't fuse and cancer. And the guy's not a crackpot... Real MD. Must read!
"Knowing everything doesn't help..."
It may be a little cliche, but... does this remind anyone else of the Dermal Regenerator of Start Trek fame
The phrase "snake-oil" comes to mind.
to reverse the healing process, aka cause major injury.
it's electric eal.
(*) at the time of writing.
Let me get this straight. Electric fields exist in the human body in the form of ions seperated by cellular membranes. The shunting of these miniature batteries due to tissue damage is "recongized" by cellular healing/repair mechanisms. The big deal here is that now we know of it and the said field can be altered by us to aid (or deter) cellular repair process. What kind of an idiot would say that electro-magenetic fields the human body is subjected to has no effect on this minute electric field? Forgive me if I'm wrong but basic physics dictate that it has!
To my understanding all studies on EM radiotaion and it's effects on human tissue was looking at the effects of the said radiation on the integrity of the genetic material within the cell and the integrity of the cell itself. They didn't consider the alteration of any electric fields and implications of this on the tissue overall. What if EM radiation interferes with the cellular repair mechanism that over time deteriorates the tissue resulting in damageed genetic components within cells?
Besides who knows what other mechanisms this electric field is a part of.
shock therapy....
hehhe slash word image: crotch...
just don't get shocked there (male OR female)...
Hmmm... now putting together Peter Gabriel's "Shock the Monkey", with an infinite number of chimpanzees, and an infinite number of typewriters, and a HUGE rheostat, you indeed MIGHT get "War and Peace", but you'll surely have some funky monkeys in the end...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
150 years ago, some guy said, "Oh, electricity can heal." 2000-4000 years ago, some guys in India and China said the same thing and--voila! Yoga and Qigong. Both of which move biolectric energy through the body and can be used for healing purposes. Oldest. News. Ever.
Until, from the midst of this darkness, a sudden light broke in upon me -- a light so brilliant and wondrous, and yet so simple! Change the poles from plus to minus and from minus to plus! I alone succeeded in discovering the cause of generation of life. Nay, even more -- I, myself became capable of bestowing animation upon lifeless matter!
IT....COULD....WORK!!!!
Weaselmancer
rediculous.
So, basically, this is just a way to use magnetism to manipulate biochemistry? Seems like a fairly basic idea, and simple ideas are usually best because they work. Granted, the side effects of applying live current to a living system could be debatable. What if this current wounds the surroundign area of the injury while it is drawing more healing molecules to the site of the injury? Like I said, sounds simple, but I think there could be more to this.
I've been treating myself with my Violet Ray Machine "Violet Ray Machine" for a while now. I guess they figured out a new way to increase secretions.
Some notes of interest. . .
Acupuncture works. Nobody contests this. --The theory is that by inserting a metal needle and setting it to lightly rotate, the needle cuts through the Earth's magnetic field creating a micro-current which then affects the body in a variety of different ways.
Electromagnetic fields similarly are able to stimulate cells to react in similar ways; this is probably the basis of all concerns regarding Cell Phone radiation.
How can EM fields affect humans? --It is understood by some that EM fields can be used to affect emotions and states of awareness. With specific application to the primary visual cortex, they can even be used to cause temporary blindness. (Read article half-way down.)
The HAARP Array, supposedly used for research, is also suggested by some to be a means of mind-control; that is, beams of specific EM can be reflected from the sky onto terrestrial targets. The science is not contested, just the intent.
In a world where the U.S. secret services admit to having run extensive (and fairly gruesome) mind-control experiments, where secrecy and paranoia run rampant through the government, where Israel is allowed to commit genocide in the Middle East without the media blinking an eye, and where Bush is allowed to build a police state, all to the drums of Christian-Cult Apocalypse insanity, the idea of population control through manipulation of EM fields is not so very far fetched, now is it?
Disagree? Before responding, ask yourself in all honestly why you disagree and where the impulse stems from.
-FL
The surprise isn't that the effect exists (well, we haven't yet figured out how to control universal constants) but that we now have an understanding of 'how'. This generally leads into an understanding of 'why' and, when we understand that, exposure to 'what other nifty stuff can we do with it.'
So no; the effect may not be new - but our understanding of it is.
I was about to post something similar.
Its a good thing that western scientists are finally starting to achknowledge that this phenomena exists, but I wonder what it'll take for them to accept that there is a large body of highly-developed literature that has already studied this. It'll only be when the introspection-aquired eastern knowledge is combined with the external observation and experimentation techniques of western science that true progress will be made.
who, upon seeing the headline, thought that this was about using electricity to cauterize wounds?
Royal Raymond Rife was the first man to construct an electron microscope, and also was the first man to view a virus (using his electron microscope). In his studies, he found that everything at the aromic particle level, be it living or dead, had a harmonic/resonant frequency that could be manipulated by bombarding that particle with the same. Outside the above two claims, he was labeled a crackpot when he constructed that verry instrument that he claimed could "rupture" those certain foreign particles from your body. It was remeniscent of shock-therapy, but more accurate to the frequency of whatever particle it was tuned to rupture. The equipment appearance was a box with two electrodes, and was used to destroy virus matter using same-frequency sound in the same manner as a singer would rupture a glass cup with a high-pitch yell. There are some great documentaries on this process, and available schematics to construct the machine. In his life, Royal Raymond Rife was dominated with one nuisance-complaint from the Medical Association every day for most of his life; having to enter court every day to defend his use of the machine. The documentary shown that the event just to publicly use the machine aggrivated the Medical Association verry badly.
Anyways, I've read as much as I could on both Rife and Tesla, and would do it again if I had the time. I have just about everything, from schematics to documentaries, conspiracy facts and theories. Most of it liens on the various Institutions using their brute force to force someone out of business just because their remedy is dangerously inexpensive. You can even buy an alleged "Rife machine" and many claim it works. All it does is train the immune system, and the worse it could do is focus energy on a certain range of tissue and disrupt it (even though if corrected, should heal).
without prejudice
We may get to witness the birth of the great-great-great-great-grandfather of yet another common Star Trek tool.
Cool! }:-)
"how news like this might reverberate across the large communities of pseudo-science loons and snake-oil salesmen that lurk in the dark corners of the Internet"
/. readers at this moment have the proverbial light bulb over head.
30 million
Opinion:=TMyOpinion.Create(Me);
"What the h@ll's a Jiggawatt??!!??"
"IT'S ALIVE!", may be words emminating from hospitals around the world. 'Ol Marry may yet spin in her grave.
The classic example is Meserism- a combination of magnetism and suggestion. That was a fad in 19th century and got Freud started in his career. Surprisingly this technique has never faded. Magnetic healing abounds at new age health fairs today.
Other magical new physics includes electricity, radiation, X-rays, quantum microtubes, earth magnetism (feng shui), and so on. Well-homed radiation has been useful for fighting tumors.
And yet only now, in this year of our Lord 2006, do we realize that HE WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG!!!!
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I wonder if this could be the basis for a Star Trek-like "dermal regenerator".
I'm a science guy - I'm not particularly enamored of 'New Age' beliefs. But a few years ago, I had a huge repetitive-stress-induced ganglion cyst on my wrist, which my neurologist said could only be fixed with surgery. Since I had just recovered from a cubital tunnel operation, I reluctantly let myself be talked into trying acupuncture first. The acupuncturist not only applied long needles, he attached electrodes to them and applied a strong pulsating electric current. I was treated every two days for ten days. After a couple of treatments, the cyst began to recede. After ten days, it was gone. Let's face it, folks, we still don't know everything there is to know.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
Defibrilation, anyone ?
So where does this leave the power companies which say that people who live near power lines are perfectly safe from EMI/RFI? Is it feasible that EMI fields generated could relaly have some kind of negative impact on teh body as some claim? Hmmmmm......
Using popular phrases like, "I call BS", is indicative of somebody who falls prey to group-think, and since group-think is most often the product of media manipulation, I am not terribly surprised that your post is so contaminated with muddy logic and over-generalized rationalization.
--Now the above comment, you should note, might more reasonably be labeled a 'condescending remark', although it is not intended as such. --And what I wrote at the end of my original post was very much not. Seriously, it is important to question where one's knee jerk reactions come from.
1) "Nobody disagrees with this" -- Nobody, except the scientific community and the National Institute of Health. It does have some positive effects though, but nobody can consistently say what or why.
You are saying two conflicting things here. You are saying that the scientific community doesn't believe acupuncture works, but that acupuncture has some positive effects. So which is it? --The problem is that acupuncture does work. The National Institute of Health was quoted several times in the very article you linked to as saying that they recognize that acupuncture does indeed have a measurable effect. They certainly don't like having to admit it, but so what? --It's certainly enough to make my original point.
2) Pseudoscience: "...the needle cuts through the Earth's magnetic field creating a micro-current..."
This is not pseudoscience. It's basic high school science which every kid in North America is supposed to learn. Conductors when they pass through a magnetic field ALWAYS create an electrical current, whether it is the Earth's or the magnets in an electric generator. Much of human technology would stop cold if this basic principal of physics didn't function as described.
Now, let's click on your user name and see if you are a known troll... YUP! You post 20 times a day and never receive a score above a 2. Phew! It's not just me who thinks you are full of it.
This is simply not accurate; you should look through my posting history with your eyes open. Further, I find it telling that you find relief in believing that you are nestled up tightly with the herd thinking. Guess what? You are not a cow. You are an individual with your own powers of thought and observation. Who cares what everybody else thinks? Unfortunately, there are many, many people like you who have had their egos crushed and reformed to respond with fear and anxiety should they step outside the bounds of consensus thought patterns, and since those thought patterns are usually driven by the crap the TeeVee tells them is true, many, many people are hopelessly ignorant and easily manipulated into fearing their own capacity to learn and express themselves.
-FL
... then after six years in the US Navy as an Electrician's Mate, I am bulletproof.
I got bit by:
450V 60Hz
120V 60Hz
120V 400Hz (quite an interesting experience)
270V DC (that sucked)
One of those had to be the correct magnitude/orientation.
First of all, James Randi doesn't actually say that acupuncture doesn't work in the article you linked to. And he'd be a fool to, because even the National Institute of Health agrees that it does. --They don't know how, but that's hardly the issue. From the Wikipedia article on acupuncture. . .
It works. Simple as that. And that should be enough to raise questions. The problem is that the answers are very upsetting to the power structure of the West.
Penn & Teller did an episode on using magnets for healing. I bet you can get free shipping on the DVD...
Penn & Teller may have done an episode on using magnets for healing, but this is hardly relevant since I made no mention of using magnets for healing. Further, I find it curious that you quote performers as definitive sources on the state of reality. Penn & Teller, and James Randi, as clever as they are, are not scientists. They are stage magicians with tunnel vision and egos to protect.
-FL
Wait a sec? Are you saying that a practictioner of Yoga and self heal better or that a Yogi master can heal anyone? You make it sound like these great 'healers' have been running around curing cancer and closing bullet wounds. I guess we are just to western-biased and technology-oriented to see it?
Electromagetism & Life
Pretty interesting stuff.
But my point is: this is really, really old news. I didn't say it was unimportant that Western scientists finally found some information that might possibly perhaps allow them to give credence to a huge body of scientific work done under a different model that they usually reject as unscientific. And I did not say or imply anything about what can or cannot be done with bioelectric energy or energy from other sources. I posted because the context of the article and some of the discussion struck me as, "Wow, this is new!" In reality it is very old information.
I've been practicing Qigong for about 5 years and I can tell you for a fact that damage causes an energetic potential in the area of the wound because I can feel it. The area around the wound becomes "fuzzy" somewhat like the resistance you feel when passing your hand through an area charged with static electricity. Is that scientific? Well, I think it is. It is measurable and repeatable, and if I focus on moving energy through that area in a particular way, I can tell you that it heals faster. Over the years, I've had plenty of injuries from which to obtain experimental results. People have been doing that in Qigong (though the practices go by many names in different cultures) for thousands of years. I'm not saying anything new, which is why I don't spend much time saying it to people. And most people will disagree with you without even investing the time to experience it.
But there's a wealth of science out there about this topic already if you are interested.
At last count, I had just shy of 500 megabytes worth of saved websites and various documents scooped from the collective world news services since around the year 2000. I don't even know where to start. It's like asking me to find a source to prove that water is wet. Nobody says such a thing directly. You have to infer it through cross examination and through the use of your mental faculties. In this case, anybody with eyes, a brain and an hour of time each day to scan the news is capable of learning the nature of the world.
Define genocide, and cite your source.
Genocide: "Killing everybody who isn't a Jew who occupies the land Israel wants to take for its own."
Yeah, they're being slow and methodical about it, but "Bulldozing Houses" just doesn't inspire that Geneva Convention feeling.
My source, again, is the collective world news since around September 2001, when Israel stepped up its campaign against Palestine under the guise of 'combating terror'. If you honestly need sources from me to validate this, you need more help than I can personally provide.
If you have been following, you'll also note that Israel has expanded their war recently. Hundreds of dead in Lebanon, and about a half million refugees in just over a week. Nice job!
-FL
I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying. I have personal experience with using qi to heal myself as well, amoung other things. My comment was made mostly on the off chance that someone might be provoked into investigating the eastern energy arts. I was also talking about the progress of *western* science (although the eastern arts do benefit as well from the new perspective): my guess is that the mainstream (I know there are some who are forging ahead on their own) will continue fumbling around in the dark. Just look at how long it has taken acupuncture to get a measure of acceptance. Heck, there are still many who scoff at the concept, despite abundant evidence that it works.