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The Hybrid Scooter
anthemaniac writes "Hybrid cars are all the rage. Now comes a hybrid scooter. It gets beyond ethanol and lots of batteries, though, running on a hydrogen fuel cell that charges a battery. During braking, energy is also harnessed. All this and speedy too, says inventor Crijn Bouman of Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands. For now, however, the prototype lacks one crucial component: the hydrogen fuel cell! It's coming, Bouman says. Yes, just like $5/gal gas..."
I don't think we should kid ourselves. $5/gal gasoline is coming. Sooner than most probably hope.
Personally, I think the sooner it arrives, the sooner my fellow Americans will quit buying SUVs.
Take off every sig. For great justice.
It seems to me that this is not actually a hybrid, since it has only one method of propulsion, an electric motor. Perhaps the designer got a little buzzword-happy
eclecti.cc
> It's coming, Bouman says. Yes, just like $5/gal gas..."
Anyone want to bet that California will see $5/gal gas within 12 months?
I'll see your hummer and raise you my Corola...
-michael
It use the latest in bio-energy too. Arguably one of the most efficent machines on the planet, it's called a bike.
My best guess is that the Li battery shouldnt need to be all that big (capacity wise), if your running a fuel cell then you already have a very efficient way of making electricity on demand, so there is less need to store the energy in the Li batteries. It could allow for quick bursts of speed, and a reasonable choice for regenerative braking.
Storm
Remember all of those pictures of millions of Chinese riding their bikes to work? Now they are buying cars instead. Soon, many Americans will be wishing they could ride their bikes to work.
I'll really start worrying when I can't afford gas for my moped.
Here in Shanghai and everywhere in China, you can buy for an electric bicycle or scooter for less than $200 US dollars after some bargaining.
Electric bikes are spreading quickly since they do not require driver license and speed up the commuting. Their price make them affordable for a wide range of Chinese (and expats).
You get between 10 to 20 miles of autonomy depending of the brand/model which is good enough for most of the daily commuters and you still have the pedals in case of shortage of power.
What happens when a vehicle with a drunk driver collides with your vehicle?
.went off the road, turned upside down and died and shit.
Took my friend George three days to die. I got away with a broken collarbone, because I didn't get hit head on at 90 mph. Maybe 'cause the driver wasn't drunk, just an asshole.
On the other hand my next door neighbor went for a drive and didn't make it home alive. There was no other car even involved in the accident. No one knows why it happened. Wasn't drunk, doesn't appear to have been speeding. No skidmarks. Not a heart attack. Just. .
I've been hit three times in about as many hundred thousand miles. I'm still alive. Same number of arms, legs and heads that I used to have. Neat little dimple in my collarbone though. Fiddle nestles right into it so I don't need a shoulder pad for comfort. Every dark cloud I guess.
Life is uncertain, except for the fact that sooner or later it's going to end, even if you buckle up and refuse to shower. Maybe it means I'll have my geek card revoked, but I like to shower once a month or so, whether I need it or not. I'm willing to take the risk.
KFG
I'd say yes. Barring all emissions and fuel arguements, SUVs and trucks still aren't all that great vehicles. Right now I'm in the bush outside of Teslin, Yukon Territory, Canada, and were dependant on heavy duty or lifted trucks to move geological and drilling supplies around and these trucks (Silverado 2500HDs and such) are just getting at what they should be used for. In town (Whitehorse) they're horrible to drive, have huge blind spots, take forever to slow down, have very poor weight distribution, handle like complete junk and still manage to carry less than my dad's work van. A SUV or full size truck shouldn't be on the top of the list for people who aren't in desparate need to carry a few drums of diesel or require large amounts of ground clearence or an insane amount of towing capacity.
Moo!
Then is it still "wrong" to drive an SUV instead of an Accord? (*waits for chorus of "yes" for all kinds of ridiculous reasons* - please, bring out the safety and bumper height arguments too!
Do you consider these ridiculous:
1/ Weight.
2/ Drag.
Regardless of how efficient your propulsion system, or how friendly the fuel and byproducts of making and running it are, the added weight and drag of an SUV means that more energy is required to run it.
Unless of course your energy source is charged from nothing but the likes of solar or wind power?
I'm happy to see a hybrid SUV, but only in the hands of people who actually need them.
because when it comes right down to it, they're safer. Sadly, the reason they're safer is they destroy anyone or anything not in an equivalent vehicle. So, you're a professional earning $40k+/year, why not spend the extra $200/month so that when your lousy driving causes and accident you walk away with a scratch and the other (poorer) guy bites it? Wish I could say I was trolling, but about once or twice a year I read a story on fark or rotten or even my local paper about some drunk SUV driver killing a family because he ran a red, and he doesn't even see a chiropracter. I'm one of the have-nots, and I'm driving an old station wagon, so I'm more than a little concerned.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
If before the war in Iraq the US would have taken even a small part of the money spent on it, the entire economy would have been well on its way to becoming hydrogen based. According to the US government itself, by 2010 $570 billion will have been spent on the "war on terror" (http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/051006/w100670.html). If one hydrogen refueling station were to cost $10 million each, each city on the continent could have at least one built by the government itself. Even adding the need for new electricity generation, it would still cost less than the "war on terror"
Then the dependence on foreign oil and its associated conflicts would have decreased significantly. And since the US is still the world's largest economy, this would have had a domino effect throughout the rest of the world, if only because of the economies of scale would be taken care of.
I know this is a naive way of looking at the issue, but it was still a missed opportunity. And it will keep happening untill there are no other alternatives. The oil companies are generating HUGE proffits due to high oil prices and our dependence on it. The domestic car manufacturers cannot afford the R&D costs associated to switching over to fuel cells. And the consumers themselves do not want change, and will continue driving V8 monsters for as long as they can afford it.
You can disagree with the site, but the sources are another matter entirely. It's something to think about next time you see a jacked-up SUV with a super reenforced "brush guard" steel bar running across the front grille blowing through another STOP sign.
link
10. Traffic Safety Facts 1996: A Compilation of Motor Vehicle Crash Data from the Fatality Analysis Reporting System and the General Estimates System. DOT HS 808 649, Washington, DC: U.S. Department of Transportation; National Highway Traffic Safety Administration; National Center for Statistics and Analysis, December, 1997. Chapter 3. page 64. table 37.
11. The Insurance Institute For Highway Safety - Feb.98 study and Nauss , Donald. April 5 1998. "Detroit Circles the Trucks; The big three defend sport-utilities and other hot sellers against an assault by regulators and environmentalists." Los Angeles Times. SectionD: Page 1.
>Sweden already have it.
So does Finland and many other nations around the world.
I always found it rather amusing the way people in the US bitched about "high" fuel prices.
BOO HOO.
This morning here in Tampere,Finland the price was 1.42 EUR/l for 95 octane (6.843 USD/gal for SI-unit impaired).
This about average for the whole of Finland.
Combine this with the fact that due to idiotic taxation Finland has the oldest cars in EU. (Not counting former soviet bloc).
And cold winters. And large distances. Then you will have some understanding of how much it sucks to have these fuel prices.
Stop complaining until your gasoline prices are as high as this.
Although when the US has $6 gas we will probably have to pay 12.
What is the price of fuel ethanol again?
Within the next year fuel ethanol will be cheaper than gasoline almost everywhere. If current trends continue.
They probably will not continue due to increased use of ethanol.
But within 5 years ethanol will the fuel of choice.
And until they can manufacture hydrogen fuel cells and hydrogen in sufficient quantities for sufficient prices I don't imagine that this will change. Maybe in the next 20 years. Maybe by then we will have fusion reactors. (Yeah right!!)
The current price is over $7.50 per gallon in most of Europe.
When will the price get down to $5.00 again ? I believe this will be after the hydrogen fuel cell, when demand for petroleum based products fall.
The US should add $2 per gallon in tax, and send that to research in better energy sources. Right now US is the western country that does the least to protect environment, and it completely ignores global warming.
My Vespa LX-150 gets around 60MPG. It's a city bike, and only 150cc, but plenty enough power for city traffic (cruises up to 55-60mph). I spend less than $5/month in gas.
Piaggio, makers of the Vespa, are actually working on two hybrid models, but the rumor is the under-seat storage will be reduced or eliminated for batteries, so I have no interest in upgrading.
Yes, because the problem with your argument is that it STILL uses more fuel. If those systems were in lighter, more aerodynamic vehicles we'd be talking 40, 50, or even 60 MPG. So it's still burning twice as much fuel as a more efficient vehicle, and driving up demand in the process, which translates into less fuel and higher prices for everyone else.
And that's not even getting into the additional CO2 emissions and energy-independence arguments.
Being responsible is being responsible. Period.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
What happens when the bus stops on a railway track and gets broadsided?
:)
No really, this happened to my mom when she was younger. She just broke her leg, but lots of other people on that bus died.
If you're that worried about safety, take the train!
There's no reason gas has to reach $5/gal. If America (and yes, it pretty much HAS to be America that leads here, no one else has that rare combination of extensive agricultural, vast industrial power, and a free market that's willing to work with the government on super-projects) were to get really serious about producing biopetrol and biodiesel, as well as radically scaling up its ethanol production capacity, this could be averted. America is a fantastic chunk of land for producing absolutely INCREDIBLE yeilds of a wide variety of crops. Grow the right crops and process the right parts of them, process all the sewage and other organic waste, augment it with wind and solar to power the agricultural industry and anything else that doesn't require portable fuel, and America might actually be able to get back into the position of having cheap fuels that are abundant enough to be exported to countries that weren't so progressive. Wouldn't that be nice? Exporting vast quantities of carbon-neutral gasohol and biodiesel fuels to China and India and getting rich(er) in the process? The technology already exists, the demand is there -- the market just needs some of the regulatory hurdles removed, some leadership, and a jolt to get the process underway.
A bit offtopic, but: SUVs get a bad rap in all of this, but if they were to run on biodiesel, ethanol, or even plain old natural gas, their contribution to global pollution would become neglible, and no one would ever have to settle for a vehicle that doesn't rollover during gentle turns ever again. SUVs are only a problem if
If you're that worried about safety, take the train! :)
I live in Japan, so I do. I've never even bothered to have my licence converted into a Japanese one; trains, subways and bicycles take me wherever I need to go.
Of course, a Japanese train is always at risk of being attacked by Godzilla; I guess the only safe choice is to build my own MechaZilla which should widthstand the ravages of even the most determined bad actor in a rubber suit. ^_^
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Yes, over here gas does cost $5/gallon. Well, used to. When it was cheap. Now it's more like $6.5/gal (1.3-1.4 EUR/l). (DISCLAIMER: if my math is correct.)
--js/fi--
Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
Okay, I know next to nothing about fuel cells, but charging them involves electrolysis or some other non-trivial process, yes? So you need a battery if you're going to take advantage of the energy to be gained back from stopping and such.
$5/gal gas? Wow that's cheap!
Here in the UK, it's already the equivalent of $7 per US gallon (97p/litre) or more. You guys don't know how good you've got it.
Mind you, the average "yank tank" probably uses more than double the fuel of the average European car. I think our average engine size is still under 1.6 litres in the UK.
Perhaps you should check out some european or japanese diesel cars which can regularly top 50mpg and even the petrol cars can do 40+. Sorry my friend, but 30mpg in 2006 is a joke and it highlights just how bad a design SUVs really are for normal road transport. Sure , use them if you're a farmer or someone else who needs 4x4 everyday , but buying them purely as a one upmanship on other people or because you've got some sort of insecurity issues in the trouser department is just wrong.
Well since we live in the land of needing to just get a bigger SUV than the neighbors have for this exact reason, it hardly matters. Teach people how to drive and the problem goes away, not make sure you're driving the biggest car out there. Given the choice, I'd much rather have a small car that isn't going to flip over if I try and dodge an oncoming idiot, Sure, it won't stop drunk drivers being on the roads, but I figure my best defenses are paying attention, knowing my driving abilities, and having a car that can get out of the way rather than having a car that's sure to do more damage to whatever hit it than it takes itself. Given how few people rely on their driving abilities now, I think they might be a bit annoyed if they end up upside-down after instinctually dodging the moron, rather than just bracing for the crash and knowing they'll come out better because they've got the bigger car.
It's called defensive driving. Worked fine for me since I got my license a few years ago, and being a male between the ages of 18-25, I definitely fall into the high-risk category. I absolutely hate driving our SUV when it's my only option - I'm sure I haven't put over 100 miles on it in total, but I don't like so much as backing out of our driveway due to how bad the handling is compared to our cars that are less than half the size. I always feel far less safe driving that thing than an actual car, because I know its design and handling impairs my driving abilities.
So long story short - sure, if someone t-bones me while I'm in a car and they're in an SUV, I'm probably screwed. But I present a much larger and much less manouvreable target when I too am driving an SUV. All in all, my odds are probably about the same, so I might as well save the gas money.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
I'm sure most of you are aware of the many different types of Hydrogen Fuel Cell scooters out there on the market, or are about to make their debut.. Some time in 2006, the ENV Scooter is supposed to be released.. I really hope it pulls through, because the bike goes about 50mph and is super quiet.. supposedly you don't even scare the birds near the road away.. I read in a couple places that you can get a kit from this ENV company that will allow you to produce your own hydrogen, and when you have all your equipment paid for, it'll probably cost you about $2-4 for every 100 miles you drive.. thats not bad.. here's a link and some pictures
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
Hybrid scooters are nice, but what the US really needs is better, more available mass transit.
Most people won't buy this scooter, but they will ride a train.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
...I think I prefer the hybrid scooter shown near the bottom of this page.
Editor Emeritus and Senior Writer, TeleRead.org
Nice, but I would never call this a hybrid, it's an electric scooter with a built in hydrogen fuelled fuel cell recharger, People over use trendy terms
Thankfully we live in a capitalist society, where only one type of person drives a SUV:
Those that both WANT to drive them and can pay for them.
Let gas prices change the equilibrium and reduce the number on the road...
I think the battery is being used because they haven't gotten around ordering a hydrogen fuel cell from Hydrocell yet :)
--js/fi--
Usage: km/h for speed (kilometers per hour); kph for very slow impulses (kilopond hours).
So long story short - sure, if someone t-bones me while I'm in a car and they're in an SUV, I'm probably screwed. But I present a much larger and much less manouvreable target when I too am driving an SUV. All in all, my odds are probably about the same, so I might as well save the gas money.
Americans have a kind of passive view of safety: you put massive defenses around you and you will be safe. It's the Maginot Line theory. The SUV is the perfect example of this. Statistically it does nothing for the safety of its occupants, and makes others who have to share the road considerably less safe. But it is reassuring to have all that steel around you. We've lost sight of the fact the best way to survive a crash is not to be in one.
My friends who drive my late model standard transmission Accord sedan usually remark on how much fun it is to drive. This happens to be a 4 banger (I'm an eco-nut), so it's not sports car by any means. It's just a competent handling sedan with good tires. People have forgotten the pleasure of driving a car that handles well. It's s shame that the SUV has supplanted the sports car as the American fantasy vehicle.
The other thing they remark on how comfortable it is -- as if they expect driving a sedan is the automotive equivalent of wearing a hair shirt. There's a reason that sedans were the dominant body style for so many years: they represent the best possible compromise between comfort, covenience, safety and performance.
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Seems that the problem with that is people tend to forego other things in order to keep their SUV, rather than get a vehicle with reasonable fuel consumption. My father was commuting out-of-state weekly, putting a good 40k+ miles on a car in a year. He did this for three years in a Durango. 14 miles per fucking gallon. He bought a Civic which gets around 40MPG, and in under a year it's nearly paid for itself. Certainly more driving than most people do, but at some point he finally realized that what he was doing was idiotic, and now he's got a good chunk of extra disposable income available.
I just don't see how Americans can be so ignorant as to think that $3/gal is expensive gas. Most of Europe is, what, $8-9/gal converted?
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Yeah, but, European gas has always been sky high. Isn't most of that $8-9/gal over there taxes?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Before it was officially launched, the Euro was called the ECU (European Currency Unit). The ECU was not a real currency, it was (oversimplification warning) a weighted average of the currencies of the members of the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. When the Euro was introduced, it was issued at a 1:1 exchange rate with the ECU (i.e. the initial exchange rate with any existing currency and the Euro was the same as that currency with the ECU; you couldn't actually trade in ECUs, since they were abstract). The Euro could not be called an Ecu, because that was the name of a pre-revolutionary French coin and it was a requirement of acceptance that the name not be that of an existing currency.
The correct term for a hundredth of a Euro is a Eurocent. For obvious reasons, no one actually calls them this.
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Not to be argumentative, but back in the day, most sports cars were 4-bangers. All of the original cheap British sports cars in the 50's and early 60's were 4-bangers, as were all early Porsches until the 911. Even now, many sports cars employ 4-cylinder motors (including the Mazda Miata, Toyota MR-Spyder, and Honda S2000). In fact, manufacturers trying to build more eco-friendly cars are embracing the philosophy of early sports cars (and the better current ones - e.g. Lotus Elise) -- make it lighter. The lighter a car, the more fuel efficient it can be. Further, the better it can stop, accelerate, and turn (see Newton's Laws of Motion). In any case, sports cars and eco-friendly are closer than you might think.
Oh, and to keep this on-topic to your post, I'm all about having a nimble vehicle that can avoid the collision in the first place. SUV's have their place, and I won't argue that they don't. However, like you, I prefer smaller cars.
-Turkey
Good old rock, wins everytime...
Poor Bart... always picks rock.