Linspire Makes Click and Run Free

An anonymous reader writes "After five years of charging an annual fee for their CNR (click and run) service, Linspire has dropped the annual fee, making the CNR service free. This combined with their previous announcement of open sourcing the CNR client, and the Freespire project, is all very big news. This means Freespire users can now have a free distro, using a free CNR service."

Comments

One question

[LWATCDR]

How are they going to make money?

Re:One question

[AKAImBatman]

How are they going to make money?

1. OEM installations
2. Commission from commercial software sold on CNR

Re:One question

[cerelib]

Linspire's goal seems to be a preload alternative to Windows. If they can score a few more contracts with consumer PC makers then they stand to make some good money.

Re:One question

[gEvil (beta)]

How are they going to make money?

Duh, the same way everyone else does:
2) ???

Re:One question

[mordors9]

Another question, how much were they making before, especially this aspect of their business.

Re:One question

[gdog05]

1. Give away free software 2. 3. Profit! Why do gnomes get it when no one else does? The world needs fewer IQ's under 60 and more gnomes.

Re:One question

[Duds]

And to be quite frank, as a windows only computer user, Freespire is EASILY the most impressive Linux I've ever seen. Everything I wanted to work did and it highly likely to go on my next laptop.

CNR free might have clinched that.

Re:One question

[DoofusOfDeath]

How are they going to make money?

Volume!

Re:One question

[NineNine]

Oh sure, this will happen. PC makers can offer a PC that's maybe $50 cheaper (if at all cheaper), and it'll come with bundled with hundreds of dollars of extra support costs (ie: "Where's the Start button"?).

Re:One question

[speculatrix]

as a windows only computer user

sorry to be rude, but if you are a real n00b to linux, are you qualified to judge lindows, er, linspire, er, freespire beyond the install and first impressions phase?

sadly, I think computer OS and apps are still polarised into two models:
1/ trivial to get started, difficult to do non-standard tasks
and
2/ hard to understand, easy to do your own thing".

As a simple example, consider the humble Palm.. trivial to use out of the box, doing anything complex with wifi or bluetooth is difficult or impossible. Then take a Zaurus, it quickly becomes non-trivial to use, but immensely rewarding with the full linux tcp/ip stack.

Many have tried and failed to bridge the gap, and it seems only Apple have really had much success.

Re:One question

[JoloK]

You said it all with "Windows only computer user" ;)

Re:One question

[GreyPoopon]

sorry to be rude, but if you are a real n00b to linux, are you qualified to judge lindows, er, linspire, er, freespire beyond the install and first impressions phase?

Absolutely! It's one clear data point about how well Linspire / Freespire handles the transition of a Windows user to Linux. It's EXACTLY the kind of assessment needed if you want to know whether or not your product stands a chance of stealing market share from your biggest competitor. It's also important to understand that opinions of experienced Linux users are important too, but they answer a completely different set of questions about the product.

Re:One question

[Kadin2048]

I think, as a Windows user, he's perfectly qualified to judge Linspire as a replacement for Windows. In fact, I'd say he's probably more qualified than someone who has a lot of previous Linux experience, or who isn't coming from a full-time, Windows-only background.

Honestly, it's that "hard to understand" part that is a major problem to getting non-geeks, or even geeks who don't like spending a lot of time twiddling with their computer's software, to be interested in Linux. I'd say that trading #2 for #1 (in your post) is not always a bad thing, depending on your ultimate goals for the system.

Re:One question

[liliafan]

Actually I would say the parent is perfect to judge linspire, their main demographic is windows users, he admits to being a windows user and says he likes linspire since it is so easy to use.

I have been using linux for about 10 years, my main OS is gentoo, I am a Unix systems administrator, I would never consider introducing a windows user to linux through gentoo, or debian they need a gateway distribution, I don't feel fedora fits this bill well enough the same applies to SuSE, however linspire(freespire) are ideal, they get the users used to working in an environment that is similar enough to windows for them to find their way around, when these users want to move onto something more powerful they can change distributions.

As for:

1/ trivial to get started, difficult to do non-standard tasks
and
2/ hard to understand, easy to do your own thing".

Are you serious?? Linux is linux, yes there is differences between distributions, yes perhaps fedora provides a nice GUI to set up wireless networking and perhaps linspire provides a nice installation method but once the user becomes experienced enough with using Linux they are usually going to learn to bypass the pretty tools anyway and get themselves into the guts of the system, in which case the distribution itself is really just a matter of personal preference.

Once you get to an operating system that attempts to give the user the power to do advanced things in a simple way you find other difficulties and complications. There is no such thing as the perfect operating system for everybody.

Re:One question

[krmt]

It does go up to 11, after all. It'll be that huge.

Re:One question

[speculatrix]

As for:
1/ trivial to get started, difficult to do non-standard tasks and 2/ hard to understand, easy to do your own thing".
Are you serious??

I was talking in general about using computers, whether word process or the bundle of apps that people think is the operating system.

But speaking of linux, in my experience, as soon as you start to manipulate system config files directly instead of using the GUI tools, you can break the gui tools such that they can't understand your changes, and you're then forced to use the command line forever (or restore config files from backup if that's possible). Of course, in Windows, you can hack the registry, and that can lead to the same world of pain!

Re:One question

[Duds]

Given that's the whole point then yes.

But thanks for being patronising. It's not that I don't use Linux because I "don't understand it". I've used it more than enough in home and business.

I don't use it because it's an utter pig to get running, an utter pig to install things and an utter pig to manage. And that goes for Debian, Mandriva, Red Hat, Suse and even Fedora. Freespire worked.

And actually I think Microsoft has had pefect success in that area. I've never had the slightest hint of a virus, security or crashing problem with XP behind a router. Of course I don't use IE.

Re:One question

[Anonymous Coward]

That's great, but I've always thought of Linux as more of a 'simple things in an advanced way' type of system.

Re:One question

[zaphod_es]

2) Profit

Re:One question

[Eil]

Indeed. I was putting together a computer for my mostly computer illiterate father-in-law and tried the two most newbie-friendly Linux distributions I could find: Kubuntu and Linspire. Kubuntu was still in its early stages and not really suitable for daily use. Linspire was great, though. Tons of hand-holding and everything just seemed to work.

Linspire would have ended up on the box too, if Click and Run didn't require a subscription. I would have easily shelled for a version of Linspire that allowed full and free access to CNR if it meant keeping Windows off the box. But there's no way I can stomach the very idea of having to pay a subscription fee just to download and install open source software that's free everywhere else. Kinda goes against my principles. Plus, I don't know how I would have explained it to the in-laws. "Sure, you can get that version of solitaire, but first you have to pay a monthly subscription to this one company..."

Re:One question

[westlake]

but once the user becomes experienced enough with using Linux they are usually going to learn to bypass the pretty tools anyway and get themselves into the guts of the system

the one certainty is that end users are never going to take more than a passing interest in the internals of an operating system.

Re:One question

[3choTh1s]

The real question is, are you qualified to judge a person for their opinions mostly about a system that they are very qualified for? Linspire/Freespire strain and strain to be the Easy To Use Linux.

And yes as a windows user he/she is very qualified to know whether or not a system is comfortable enough for the average joe(being one) to use. On the other hand being "rude" is another reason Linux gets a bad rep. Sure it's powerful, lightweight, and really cool to use, but the people out there that can help get passed some of the sore spots are awful jackasses. hmmm something to think about.

Re:One question

[liliafan]

But speaking of linux, in my experience, as soon as you start to manipulate system config files directly instead of using the GUI tools, you can break the gui tools such that they can't understand your changes

If this is the case the GUI is broken in the first place or you haven't used valid syntax when making your changes!

Re:One question

[schmiddy]

Easy! They're going to change their name to LinOSX, and wait. Another, oh, $25M should tide them over for a while~

Re:One question

[Anonymous Coward]

"So far Linspire hasn't made a profit, but the company is "very close," said Larry Kettler, vice president of worldwide sales and marketing. "We lost around $10 million per year in previous years, and now we're just about at break-even.""

A little bird told me they aren't losing as much money now because 60% of their staff from levels a year and a half ago have quit. Half of that remaining amount were allegedly laid off not too long ago.

So, considering the only route that is making them money, they just need to fire a couple more people and they are good to go!

Then again, little birds are known to be wrong once in a while

Re:One question

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep. The GUIs are broken. They are always partially broken because configuration file syntax is always so damned complicated.

For an example of this, use the Redhat GUI tools (especially the BIND one) or the Ubuntu GUI tools (especially the Samba one). They are pitiful and only work properly in the simplest of circumstances.

So how do we fix this? I'm not really sure, but using some sort of standard configuration file format might help. Are there any other solutions out there?

Re:One question

[StormReaver]

"How are they going to make money?"

Only the basic CNR service is free. Linspire has a Gold service level with extra entitlements (discounts on commercial software, operating system upgrades, etc.).

Re:One question

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux is not hard to understand. It is different from what Windows users are used to.

Re:One question

[thephydes]

Your original post is exactly on the point I've tried to make a number of times. Joe blogs wont use linux unless it looks and feels like windows, because he has no need to. And if it wont run the things he wants to run then he wont give it a second glance. This is not saying I like windows - I dont, but for gods sake, some of you self important nerds need to get into the real world of what the CONSUMER wants, not what you believe they should want. So, linux fanboys, read the original post again. Duds is right ..... he sees Linspire as an acceptable alternative to windows, so it is - end of story. He doesn't see other ditros as acceptable alternatives, so they arent - end of story.

Re:One question

[xtracto]

You hit the nail!

I have always thought when I read comments here on slashdot on all the "Linux is ready for the desktop" flamewars that, it is not us geeks the ones that have to answer the question "is Linux ready for Joe Sixpack and Grandma?", it is THEY the ones that have to answer and so far they have answered NO (it is the overall answer relfexed by the Linux adoption.

I like doing the analogy with what happened to Nintendo. I believe it was Shigeru Miyamoto or the CEO of the company who put it this way: "If you ask the current players about, what is wrong with the consoles, or what would be better, they always said that nothing is wrong, and they would only want some minor improvements. We had to ask the people that was NOT using the games what was wrong with them and WHY were they not playing".
The quote was something like that. But the point is there, if the "linux community" keep asking the "linunx community" why are other people not using Linux, or why can be improved then nothing will change (specifically, nothing that attracts people that is NOT using it).

Re:One question

[Library Spoff]

>>are you qualified to judge lindows

lets see shall we:
Duds (100634)
speculatrix (678524)

yip - Duds has a lower id number therefore is more qualified to judge.
I love science...

Re:One question

[webhed123]

User Interface
Freespire polished the kde interface a bit. Its still kde though and has 9 million options. You have to dig through 500 menus, pulldowns, and other random configuration items to do the simplest thing. When you right-click on the desktop there has to be at least 12-15 options on there. Ubuntu's Gnome UI is much more streamlined and polished.
          Score +1 for Ubuntu.

Graphics
Freespire doesn't realize my graphics card and or monitor is capable of greater than 1024x768 resolution. I can't change it to anything higher via the gui whereas Ubuntu did automatically.
          Score +1 for Ubuntu.

Click-n-Run
Freespires much vaunted Click-n-run interface just plain blows, or at least for me it does. The interface is clunky, has too many options, menus, and whats-its going on, and half the things I tried to click-n-run were more like click-n-crash. - Ubuntu has Synaptic (and plain Apt-Get and yes I know you can get it in Freespire too, but its not there by default).
          Score +1 for Ubuntu

Firefox
Freespire renamed Firefox 'lBrowser'. Please. Please stop with the lWords. Even the Freespire Firefox theme sucks. They even have a .mozilla folder in your home dir, but thats not where the profile etc is, no, thats in the .lbrowser folder. eek. Ubuntu just gives you Firefox and doesn't mess too much with it (other than a decent theme I think).
          Score +1 for Ubuntu.

Multimedia.
Ubuntu and Freespire both seemed to support mp3 playback out of the box so thats a draw. However, Freespire did support most win32 video codecs right out of the box. It takes some configuring to get Ubuntu to support them (not much but some).
          Score +1 for Freespire.

lSongs
lSongs lSucks. The interface is crappy and it seems like a crappy rip-off of iTunes. A really crappy rip-off at that.
          Score +1 for Ubuntu.

lPictures
lPictures lBlows. Give me Fspot or Picasa please. Same UI issues as lSongs. And if I have to tell my wife to launch lSongs to listen to her jazz music she's gonna lPunch me in the lNose.
          Score +1 for Ubuntu.

Install
Freespires installer was pretty smooth other than the partitioning part. Its a lot faster than Ubuntu's installation but the partioning part is worse.
          Score +1 for Ubuntu due to ease.
          Score +1 for Freespire due to speed.

I'm only on my 2nd day of reviewing Freespire so maybe I'll find some more things I like, but as it is right now I'm thinking I'll be reinstalling Ubuntu tonight.

Re:One question

[Duds]

I should explain that by "Acceptable alternative", I mean "good enough to avoid paying £90 for windows on my next laptop". No way can it do everything I need windows to do on my actual desktop.

And I have GOT to find a way to get KDE to give me a wide multi-line taskbar, it's got room for about a program and a half in default config.

The Reason Why It can be Free

[neonprimetime]

according to CEO Kevin Carmony, Linspire is doing well enough from selling its higher-end products and services that it can afford to offer its basic CNR service free of charge

Good for him, and good for us! I guess that's what happens when you become innovative and create multiple products / services!

Re:The Reason Why It can be Free

[gid13]

It's perhaps worth mentioning that this is what I was waiting for to try it out. And if it's good, then I'll tell people. As long as they have SOME means of making money, increased adoption is usually a good thing. :)

Well Duh

[MindStalker]

They are charging for most of the software you download via CNR. I never understood why they charged for the service in the first place, as any charges reduce your potential software sales customer base.

Re:Well Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

They only charge for the commercial software (StarOffice, Codeweavers, etc.). They NEVER charged for FOSS, they only charged for the "service" to install it. You could always use apt-get, etc. with Linspire and Freespire.

Re:Well Duh

[AnotherCaptainTux]

Actually, CNB (Click n Buy) is a vast minority of the software offerings in the CNR warehouse.

Quite cool

[TommyBear]

I was a tester in the early days of Lindo... Linspire :) It was a good system then and it is still now. It's a good thing(tm) that it has been made free. They can still sell their commercial products through that chain.

Re:Quite cool

[garcia]

They can still sell their commercial products through that chain.

I want to know how many users they actually have and how many of those users would buy commercial software via CNR. I just can't see them having that many total users, nevermind total users that will actually buy this stuff.

Re:Quite cool

[TommyBear]

Back in the day, these guys had something like 3000+ paid up users for CNR/Linspire. I know I bought marble madness from CNR, which is a commercial product.

I can only assume this has grown to a point where the company is now happy with it's income to make CNR free.

More important de free...

[Beuno]

I think that even more important then the service being free is this:
(from TFA)

Linspire will release a new open-source CNR client in December as part of Freespire 1.1, the next release of the company's free Linux distribution. This distribution also includes, at the user's option, proprietary software such as Adobe Acrobat and ATI Graphic drivers.

Re:More important de free...

[pnutjam]

What would really be great would be a way to have your own branded CNR site internally with all the software your user's need. User's could then install anything they needed (the privilages should be such that only things from your CNR site will install for users).

Re:More important de free...

[sgage]

"Dear old people,
Help save Social Security, work longer or die sooner.
Concerned taxpayer"

Working longer, dying sooner.

You've just summed up my retirement plan perfectly!

- sgage (only a boyish 51 years old!)

The Answer

[neonprimetime]

How are they going to make money?

I answered this for you! You were just too fast or I was too slow!

Well what do you know

[Provocateur]

/. actually showed what the acronym stands for in the summary. The Decline and Fall of Western Civilization is now complete. Dogs and Cats can now live together.

Re:Well what do you know

[Kamineko]

It's alright. They told you what the acronym stood for, but not what it does or why it was charged for in the first place.

Re:Well what do you know

[Anonymous Coward]

Western Civilization

Yes, that would be a good idea!

Answer:

[SkyMunky]

Volume! (just like The Change Bank)

Great!...but too late...

[cb_abq]

...I have already switched to Ubuntu.

Re:Great!...but too late...

[n9mdh]

How much space left on your hard drive? If you've got 20 gig to spare, the installer utility will let you resize your Ubuntu partition a little smaller, and you'll have plenty of room to give Linspire a try. Your box will also get a +1 in geek attraction for being able to boot more than one distro. :)

Re:Great!...but too late...

[Anonymous Coward]

And a -10 for using linspire / freespire as one of them.... go for open solaris!

Here comes the targeted scripts

[fastgood]

sudo with no password needed for the default user.

I'd call it Lindows if that hadn't already been tried. FreeDows?

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[jrmcferren]

Ubuntu in livecd mode is the same way simply type

sudo su

and you are the root user.

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[scharkalvin]

Even when you install Ubuntu on your hard disk there is no
superuser. The very first user you add during install IS
the superuser, and he gets access via su or sudo and his
password.

If I install Ubuntu, I would just make the first user
'Admin' and then add myself as the second user.

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[ylikone]

When you install Linspire on harddrive, it creates a regular default user for you. Yes, you do have the option of running it as root only, but that's just stupid.

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[horati0]

sudo with no password needed for the default user.

Read some of the comments posted in that thread. Seems like running as root is No Big Deal, almost a badge of honor. These dipshits deserve whatever they get. And they will get it.

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

that is frightening

Re:Here comes the targeted scripts

[gsn]

Dear god one of them actually posted "what is user" with a frickin smiley - some of them have been running as root for 3 years and trust their firewalls and routers (I suppose atleast he does that)! Wait all this sounds familiar... oh yeah windows users who run as administrator. Hmm I wonder who Lindspire's primary target audience is - oh right windows users. This surprises you why? Why again do people want more Windows users to start using linux?

disclaimer - debian at work, xp at home (gamez) but adequately protected and not fricking running as admin

Community-driven Freespire

[intnsred]

For those interested in this, the community-driven Freespire project will likely be of interest. From their web site:

Freespire is a community-driven, Linux-based operating system that combines the best that free, open source software has to offer (community driven, freely distributed, open source code, etc.), but also provides users the choice of including proprietary codecs, drivers and applications as they see fit. With Freespire, the choice is yours as to what software is installed on your computer, with no limitations or restrictions placed on that choice. How you choose to maximize the performance of your computer is entirely up to you.

What is Linspire's Value Added?

[SlashdotOgre]

An older (60's) friend of the family is wanting her first computer for basic functions like email, etc. I have an older machines that is just collecting dust and was planning to throw Linux on it (it originally came with ME), but I have been debating what distro -- obviously I'm looking for the simplest, most straight forward one I can find. I primarily use Gentoo and Fedora/RHEL personally, and I have a little experience with Ubuntu, but I'm not sure how suited they would be for total beginners (Gentoo is definitely out). Is there any advantages over Fedora or Ubuntu in going with *spire? I doubt she'll be adding any software, and it seems like it would be a lot easier to keep her updated with a yum/apt-get cron job. Also I've heard MEPIS is geared toward beginners, but haven't given it a shot. Any other distros (including *BSD) I should consider? More than likely I'll set up a Gnome desktop with an icons labelled Internet, Emai, Word, etc. and keep the rest of the machine as locked down as a cyber cafe terminal; I'm just concerned about maintenance/updates.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Omicron32]

Being a Gentoo user myself, I have found Ubuntu to be an extremely nice distro and I'd highly recommend it. My Mother's PC currently uses it and (using Automatix) she's had no problems with it. Updates are presented to the user in a very simple fashion so my Mother does all her own updates and such.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[poliopteragriseoapte]

I was in exactly the same situation, and here's what I did.

I installed Debian Stable, plus Firefox, and Thunderbird. I wrote a few custom scripts to handle downloading photos from her digital camera, and storing them in folders named after the photo's month. A couple of scripts do similar stuff.

I installed a RAID 1 system, figuring that she would never take the time to do backups - and remote backups through her slow ADSL connection (with limited uplink speed) would be a hassle.

Most importantly, I wrote a cron job that every 5 mins or so, wget's a particular web page from my server. In this way, I can get the IP address at which the machine is running when on. I can then remote log-in, and do "apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade -u" whenever needed, as well as any other maintenance I need to do.

This arrangement has been working great. If I were to do it again, I would skip Thunderbird, which in my opinion is buggy, and just invite the person to gmail.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Shadyman]

Agreed. Ubuntu presents updates much like Windows does.

Ok, bad analogy. Ubuntu presents updates much like Windows *usually* does, if you tell it to prompt for updates.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Anonymous Coward]

I had a similar experience when setting up an old Gateway for an inexperienced computer user. Freespire was the first distro I tried, and I found it to be extremely sluggish (this was a 333 mhz Pentium 2), so I wouldn't recommend it on _really_ old computers.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[NineNine]

Just use Windows 2000, and set it to automatic updates. That's about as simple as you can get.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Anonymous Coward]

How old? If you don't have at least 384 MB of RAM you don't want to be using Ubuntu (especially with firefox). For newbies Debian stable with xfce is probably the way to go on older hardware, Ubuntu on a newer box.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Squarewav]

The main advantage of linspire/freespire is that it works very well out of the box nvidia/ati drivers, printer/network printer/ media codecs (divx/mpg/quicktime/wm/real/ect) all preinstalled wich makes it a good choice for small OEMS that want to install linux and not have to do a lot of tweeking to get the distro to work with the hardware

as far as maintenance/updates spire follows sorta debian stable aproach in that it takes them a long time to update software unless there is a security problem (spire is not for people who want the latest and greatest)

The major drawbacks I found with freespire/linspire
1) Its dog slow, takes a long time to bootup, apps take longer to start compared to other distros
2) doesnt setup the monitor corectly, requires setting the resolution and refresh rate in its controll panal, possible to set it outside the spects of the display (i.e 100 hz on a 75hz max monitor)
3) A lot of outdated software such as kde 3.3

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[burner]

Rather than mussing with the wget script, it's much easier to simply use dyndns.org's free dynamic dns server. Debian and Ubuntu have an ez-ipupdate package that configures using debconf that will update the name-ip mapping automatically.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[zaphod_es]

xubuntu will run nicely on any computer designed for Windows ME. Debian with or without xfce is not really very suitable for a newbie.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[GnuAge]

"Older machine" covers a lot of ground. ME-stake could have come on anything from about a 266 MHz machine with 64 MB of RAM to a 800 MHz or so with 256 MB. I'd have very different recommendations depending upon which end of the spectrum the machine fell. First of all, I'd suggest upgrading the memory to at least 128 MB to run a modern full-sized distro.

For a really lower end box I'd suggest a Slackware-based distribution with XFCE like Vectorlinux or Zenwalk. Slackware itself is remarkable fast on older hardware. I have a 400 MHz/128 MB machine on the back porch running KDE on 10.2 with no problem, and while it isn't exactly zippy, it works fine (and I won't lose any sleep if the neighborhood kids decide they need the machine more than I do). But Slack requires quite a bit of time and some experience with Linux to set up (when will the mouse wheel work out of the box without editing xorg.conf?) Though I haven't used it much, PC-BSD also seemed adequate running KDE on an older box (128 MB), as well, and isn't as fiddly as Slack.

For a machine with a little more pop I think Freespire would be fine. Xandros free addition is a little dated (2004), but would also work well for someone with Windows experience. It's version of KDE is ancient and doesn't have tabs, but I think it would be more intuitive for first time Linux users. PCLinuxOS is easy to set up and comes with MPlayer configured to play Windows formats without the need for win32-codecs.

A lot of the pain of setting up a desktop Linux box is to set it up to deal with proprietary formats that you are likely to encounter on the net, things like Flash, Realplayer, various codecs, Java, DVDs, etc. Many distros have been actually removing proprietary stuff from their default installs (for instance, libdvdcss is no longer part of PCLinuxOS). So any distro that has tools available to easily add that stuff might make your life easier. EasyUbuntu and Automatix automate all that stuff for Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu and Mepis (Automatix), so that makes those distros very appealing. There is something similar available for Debian Etch and I suspect other projects like them are in the works for other major distros. (Anyone know?)

Bearing this in mind, I might suggest Xubuntu, the XFCE version of Ubuntu. It will run on 128 MB machines and the proprietary multimedia stuff is easy to add with those scripts. Plus, it has a very clean, simply interface that a new user would be less likely to find confusing. You can install from the liveCD "Desktop" edition if you have 192 MB of RAM or more or use the "Alternate CD" installation disc with 128 MB. I haven't tried it on a slow machine, but it is very snappy on my lappy.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[cyanid3]

Actually, once you get Gentoo setup properly, i.e. Installing the latest kernel, a Graphical Desktop Environment like KDE or Gnome plus the usual stuff, Gentoo is actually the best distro.

Installing stuff is peanuts. Heck, Portage and Emerge do all of the work for you, i.e. Managing scripts, config files and all.

How about you intall Gentoo with all the stuff and give it a try. That old woman will love it :P

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Daengbo]

I've been using Linux since 1997, so take the following statement as a true and honest feeling: I was always disappointed with the speed of the GUI until recently, but then I:

• Wiped and installed Xubuntu,
• Used EasyUbuntu to install all the codecs and etc. that I need to watch media,
• Ran FasterDapper, which does prelinking and some other minor stuff, and
• Enjoyed the speed of my laptop for the fist time in a long time.

I'm very happy with straight GTK without the Gnome libraries on top of it, though the file manager really needs a Samba share browser. It's coming up soon, though, so maybe I'll get one in Edgy.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[montyzooooma]

"Most importantly, I wrote a cron job that every 5 mins or so, wget's a particular web page from my server. In this way, I can get the IP address at which the machine is running when on. I can then remote log-in, and do "apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade -u" whenever needed, as well as any other maintenance I need to do."

I'm a Linux newb but Ubuntu Dapper tells you when there are updates and about 2 clicks later you're done. I think even a computer novice can be trained to click OK a few times. Your solution is elegant from a geek point of view but the OP was addressing a solution that doesn't require micro-management.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[Ma�djeurtam]

Or give her the very promising Gentoo-based Sabayon Linux, which is to Gentoo what Ubuntu is for Debian.

It comes preinstalled with everything you can imagine, is KDE-based (other DE's are available) and has XGL goodness. Still very young though, so YMMV.

Re:What is Linspire's Value Added?

[poliopteragriseoapte]

Right, but coming up with the wget script took me less time than reading the ipupdate man page, and as a plus, automatically tells me when the machine is up, so I can log in.

Somebody else commented that I could teach the users to do updates with Ubuntu. The problem is how newbies the users are. In my case, the problem is that they would feel they have ZERO motivation to do the updates, and just never do them.

Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[dpbsmith]

I'm sure it's of philosophical interest, but I can't believe that the elimination of a fee of $20 a year--$50 a year for the "gold" service--is going to have much effect on the Linspire software ecosystem.

Admittedly it may look different if you're actually developing software for Linspire, which I'm not, but still... I find it hard to believe $20 annuual fee is actually stopping anyone from making software available... unless it's The Principle Of The Thing.

Heck, it costs $20 to buy a spindle of CD-R's... to replace the ink cartridges in the printer... to buy the latest O'Reilly book from Amazon, with SuperSaver shipping... all stuff you need to do to develop software. I'd think even the most casual of developers could afford a $20/year fee.

Re:Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[dolson]

OK, great news for you! I am now renting you the air that you breathe. You have the option to breathe it for free, but if you prefer, I would gladly accept $15/year of your money. Oh yeah, I take PayPal and well-concealed cash.

Re:Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[benplaut]

No, but making CnR open source is big news.

Re:Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[Kadin2048]

I don't think that the fee was really stopping anyone who was Truly Interested from getting the service, but it certainly was keeping some people who were maybe peripherally interested, but not wholly convinced, from giving it a shot.

There is very little difference between $19 and $20. There is a huge, vast, gaping chasm between something that costs $1 and something that is free.

If you can now play with a service at no cost, I think more people are likely to try it out, who wouldn't have even considered it before just because it costs money. Now, it's a valid question whether these sorts of folks are really worth anything as customers, but that's a separate issue.

Re:Eliminating a $20/year fee is BIG news?

[Anonymous Coward]

to buy the latest O'Reilly book from Amazon, with SuperSaver shipping

You need to buy $25+ at Amazon for super saver shipping. Good thing that "Learning Perl, Fourth Edition" and "Programming C#" are $25+.

Perhaps

[drpimp]

Perhaps now I can convince myself to actually see what is on the free Linspire disk I got from Linux Desktop Summit this year.

Soo....

[Creepy Crawler]

This is like crippled apt-get but NOW you dont have to pay for it?

Wow.

(goes back to bash shell under debian.)

Re:Soo....

[intnsred]

Actually, it's more like an apt-get for clueless users who can't open up a terminal/commandline, and with some non-free software woven in.

But if that scares you, Linspire, being Debian based, also includes apt-get. :-)

Re:Soo....

[S3Indiana]

Crippled apt??? pls. explain...

Re:Soo....

[TheRaven64]

Actually, it's more of a Synaptic clone, with a slightly nicer UI and the ability to buy proprietary software. And, to clarify, it has been made gratis, not libre. It would be nice if Slashdot would adopt the convention of specifying which is meant; it is one of the more irritating limitations to the information carrying capacity of the English language.

Re:Soo....

[Anonymous Coward]

You're obviously not the target market for this. No one cares what you think.

(I run debian as well, I'm just not a stuck up geek)

I took a while, but...

[IWorkForMorons]

I can finally see this being a good option for people I don't want to deal with helping them "fix" Windows. I knew this 5 years ago, I know this now.

The only reason I post this is in the hopes that the geek I met 5 years ago will read this and realise how much of a stuck-up geek he is. I was at the bus terminal waiting for my bus to go to work. I saw this guy holding a PDA, casually glanced at it, and he just got all excited that someone was checking it out because he had Linux on it and wanted to show it off. So on the bus ride he's prattling on about how great Linux is, how you can do everything in Linux that you can in Windows, how much better Linux is over Windows. So I ask him if he's checked out this new disto, seeing as I just found it and thought it was a cool idea. Nice, easy, user friendly, had this cool utility that downloaded and installed software for you in a single click. "It's called Lindows" I said. "Looks cool enough, and would be nice for the average person that doesn't want to rebuild their kernel." His face dropped...he looked so disgusted. It was like I just killed a puppy in front of him. He could barely even talk. He asked for my email address to "talk about Linux", but I never heard from him. Dumbass stuck-up geek...THIS IS FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T GEEKS! It's so that these people bother other people to help them, or don't need help at all because the damn thing just works! It's to free up the geek's time! But he just couldn't see the potential...too disgusted that it was "like Windows"...

Re:I took a while, but...

[Omicron32]

Dude, come on. You told me you were using Lindows, how did you want me to look... Pleased?

I was a Gentoo man then, and I'm a Gentoo man now! :)

Re:I took a while, but...

[IWorkForMorons]

Never said I USED it, just said I checked it out and thought it was a cool idea. My machine regularly has different OSes installed on it...this was just one of many that I tried at the time. It was removed and replaced with Red Hat soon after checking it out seeing as they wanted me to *pay* for software. Come on now...pay money...for software...please...

Re:I took a while, but...

[krmt]

Well, five years ago Lindows ran everything as root. This was, and is, a horrible idea that got them a lot of flack.

I understand the distro has come a long way though, and from what I've heard I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it to newbies today. Then again, I'm not the dude with the PDA.

Re:I took a while, but...

[Anonymous Coward]

That's great. Is it almost done compiling?

Does anyone actually use this?

[quag7]

I am curious how many people use this as their main distro, and how they got there. I have yet to run into a single person who has settled on this. Hell, I've barely even run into anyone interested in trying it.

So if anyone is reading this and does use this as their main distro, I'm curious why you use it, and what you tried before it.

Because I'm just not clear on the point of this distribution. Looking at free (as in beer) Linux distributions like OpenSuSE and *buntu, I just don't understand why anyone would pay for this.

Paying for home desktop Linux just strikes me as....bizarre. ...Unless there is some significant advantage to this distribution, but honestly looking at YaST, I don't understand how much easier it needs to get. I'm sort of surprised this distribution is still around. Is the company profitable?

(And no, I'm not a SuSE user, but I've played with it.)

Someone step in and drop some science on this please.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[S3Indiana]

Started testing the OS in late 2002, became my primary desktop in 2003, used exclusively at home and work since 2004. Everything I need works out-of-the-box; CNR is the easiest software install system I've seen. What makes this different is most file type extensions work without any further installation/configuration. Why wouldn't someone want to use it???

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use it and love it. It came pre-loaded with a computer I purchased. Linspire doesn't distribute the same way as Ubuntu, Fedora, etc, to geeks via an .iso (well, they do that, but they don't target that). THIS is what they DO target: http://www.linspire.com/featured_partner/featured_ partner.php?sent=1&country=1

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[PFI_Optix]

"Paying for home desktop Linux just strikes me as....bizarre. ..."

I can only think of one valid reason to pay for Linux: support.

If a company sold Linux for a reasonable price and offered competent phone support, it would be worthwhile for people looking for a Windows alternative who don't have the time to invest in getting to know Linux well enough to be comfortable with it as their only operating system.

It's not in use at my work (except in a few dedicated roles using live CDs) because the adminstrator doesn't know Linux well enough to be comfortable with relying on it. There isn't a support structure comparable to Microsoft's; their knowledge base alone trumps any support offerings I've ever seen for Linux.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[intnsred]

I just don't understand why anyone would pay for this.

First, I understand you exactly and agree with your point(s).

But to explain, I've seen quite a few people buy Linspire (and a couple even pay for the CNR access). I thought they were loons but after seeing this repeatedly I had to think about it.

The conclusion that I came to was "consumerist training". People are taught to think like that -- just watch TV if you don't believe me. These people have a strong "feeling" that if you pay for something it has to be better. In short, they're "Americans" with "American values".

I see the same thing all the time with Windows users. Some people actually get a certain satisfaction at buying anti-virus software and registry maintenance software and other odds-and-ends $20 or $40 utilities that are unneeded in a GNU/Linux system.

It sounds bizarre, but I'm serious -- some people do like that to a limited extent. They always say, "It's just $30 so what's the big deal?" And it gives them a certain satisfaction because in their mind they're "helping" and "optimizing" their computer.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[just_another_sean]

I'm sure there are many reasons for people to use this but my guess is that for a lot of people, human nature being what it is, they just like to pay for something, and not spend effort on it. I'm the "do-it-yourself-type" but a lot of people aren't. I'm not sure exactly how Linspire is distributed but if it's in stores, on a shelf and comes in a pretty box I think it's going to attract some people. And, again, I'm not sure where they are with this, but didn't Walmart sell off the shelf PCs a while ago preinstalled with Linspire? For a lot of people simply walking into a store and buying a computer with the software preinstalled is the only option. I would guess that a lot of folks aren't even concerned with what software, just price. And being what it is a Linspire PC is cheap.

If Linspire can get OEMs to preload it, make it available in stores and keep the prices down it's an attractive option to a lot of people. Paying for something, especially paying a low price, makes people feel good.

I remember back in the day I worked with some guys from another company on a joint project and they always bought off the shelf versions of RedHat*, keeping up with each release. We thought they were crazy at the time. Whenever a new release came out we downloaded ISO's and burned a few copies. They thought we were crazy. They liked the shiny disks, the book that came with it and the fact that they didn't spend a minute on burning or verifying ISO images. But that's what great about Free software, the choices. Me, I like Debian these days and recommend Ubuntu to friends, family and coworkers that ask about Linux. Ubuntu shipping free CDs certainly helps in that regard!

*RedHat - Pre RHEL

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[AnotherCaptainTux]

Hi, I use Linspire and Freespire almost exclusively (my server is CentOS) I've been a Linux user since late 2001. I started working in sales for a company that exclusively used RHL on the server and desktop. I was a bit lost as a long time Mac user and ordered a PII on ebay and started using Mandrake. I subscribed to Linux Format Magazine as well. For a newbie who had not done anything deeper than pointing and clicking for the last ten years, my learning curve was harsh. I would go to forums and mail lists for help and be told to RTFM....my question was always WHAT Fing manual! Where?!?!? I bought dummies books, I bought books and went to websites that promised to be helpful, they were not. It was the vision explained by Eic Raymond in "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" that kept me going and not the functionality or usability. Along the way I discovered SUSE 8.2 and thought..."Much better, but I am still using my Mac." I had read about Lindows in a review in Linux Format about version 3.0. I liked what I read. I asked some friends about it and went to slash dot and was told they are evil and kicked puppies. So, I listened to the muses that abused me into a co dependent relationship of confusion and stayed lost and continued to use my Mac. In 2004, Lindows changed the name to Linspire and had a free offer for the ISO. By this point I had grown pretty darn comfortable with the shell, RPM, YAST, etc etc. I was even a member of a local LUG and had taken some classes at a local College to get better acquainted with Linux. This is, by the way, far more than the average person would do. Anyway, I downloaded Linspire and checked it out on my box. Darn thing installed with zero effort. It had flash tutorials that explained how to do many basic things that would help newbies. There was Lsongs and Lphoto which were intuitive and overall, it just worked. Now, I still had a problem with this CNR. Paying for free software! Damn puppy kickers! But they had a 15 day trial. I figured I would try it for 15 days, download everything I wanted and cancel. HA! During that 15 day trial, I got spoiled. I go to the warehouse, read a description, read user reviews, one click and it is installed and even adds it in the menu and a pretty icon on my desktop if I so desire. Here is the kicker, if something did NOT work, I could contact Linspire and they would fix it. Customer support for 3rd party applications as long as I download it through CNR? WOW! Then I go to the forums. I see users who are new to Linux being treated with kindness, courtesy, and respect. The immediate need would be fed first and then they would be given tips and advice on how to find answers for themselves. By the time 5-0 came out, I sold my Mac. As far as other Linspire users out in the world? I know of 3 in my home town and seven in the neighboring town. I know many others on forums, mail lists, and Summits. Some are industry professionals. You know who the rest are? Senior citizens, hair dressers, stay at home parents, bus drivers, truck drivers, pilots, avon reps, librarians, and well...normal people. For newbies, Linux needs to just work and the command line is something a single mom working 50 hours a week only to be a mom and a house manager when she gets home will not ever have the interest or inclination to go to. If Linux is malleable and flexible, as well as more secure and more stable, we should be able to make it simple enough for her to use. Open source needs open arms. the open arms to newbies is one of the reasons I am with Linspire and Freespire even though it is "too simple" for me. Cheers! Patrick

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[larryau]

Actually at my job many of the desktops were switched to linspire. Worked great for many of the employees. I think the company did not mind the fee because it gave them that security if anything went wrong they could get support. The entire time I have been there they have not once had to call for support. Now granted the vast majority of the users are just using it for normal stuff like email, word processing, ...etc.

I personally like it because it is easy to set up and use much is clear to understand what does what. Not like many of the other distros you have to hunt around and guess how to do something or worse for someone that is not linux savvy have to hack something to get it to work.

One of the biggest plus is how to install and update software. The process is crystal clear. Unlike many other distros where it almost always does not work the way it says it is suppose to. Many times you have to go hacking around the config files to add a repository or change some obscure setting that just does not mean anything to the average employee / user.

The key is ease of use. It installs very fast, one of the fastest to install out of all the distros. It does not ask a lot of complicated questions, it just does it and it works.

As for other distors I like SUSE, but it is not smooth such as the recent fiasco with the ZNetwork, Yast, YOU, RUG stuff had many people pulling there hair out. And even though SUSE is getting better you still have to get into the OS to get it to behave.

Ubuntu was nice install, but frankly its just plain ugly. Its update and install software is a bit more refined, but needs additional work. Its not always clear what it is doing or were to go to get what.

Linspire is an excellent choice for those that are not linux or geek heads, it was never meant to be that. It was meant to be an alternative to windows and it fulfills that very well. You just plug it in and it goes.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

I use this as my development platform. I will be honest. I do not use any of the bells and whistles or any of the stuff that Linspire uses to market their product. I started using Linux a long time ago with Slackware. I have used Gentoo, Redhat, Suse, lfs, Debian Ubuntu, and many others that I cannot remember right now. All of those were a great learning experience when I was learning how Linux works. I still install them from time to time if they are doing something interesting and I want to see how it works. But for the most part now I know how it works. There are only so many times that you can set up a system before it stops being a learning experience and starts being drudgery. I used the Linspire Developers edition first and now Freespire, because if I hose my system I can just reinstall it and it will be up, running, and ready for me to work in five minutes. No other system does that for me. I am sure that results vary and other people find that they have my experience with some other distro, but that is my experience.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[anandrajan]

I set up Linspire Five-Oh for my eight year old kid to use. Click-n-Run was a nice, albeit braindead way for him to learn to search (via keywords) and then install software on his PC. Sadly, he got tired of Linspire because he couldn't play his games, so the experiment ended a couple of months ago.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[dslauson]

I'm using it as my main distro right now. I really want to make a clean break from Windows. The main thing that has stopped me from getting rid of that nasty NTFS partition is that I could never get my wireless card to work. I've spent hours searching the forums and messing around ndiswrapper, with no luck.

Freespire is the first distro I've tried where it just worked, right out of the proverbial box. I've tried Ubuntu, Suse, Debian, Fedora, Knoppix, and a handful of others. My pattern would be to install it, play with it for a while, try desperately to get a wireless driver working, and then give up and go back to Windows, because I don't want to have to sit right next to my router, and I don't want to have to buy a new wireless card.

With my next computer purchase, I will totally do my research and make sure I'm buying hardware that works under any distro, but for somebody who is spontaneously thinking about making the switch from Windows, if their hardware doesn't work, they will generally give up.

So, for me, it is the proprietary drivers that are the big selling point. It's nice having Java, Acrobat, and others ready to go, too, I must say. Before, you could just apt-get Synaptic and you've got free software downloads and updates, but now with free CNR, which I've heard is rediculously easy, maybe I'll give that a try.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[filesiteguy]

Couldn't play his games? What more does a kid need than Tux Racer, LBreakout, Super Tux and MAME?

Here's proof: http://www.perfectreign.com/?q=node/24

My only hope is that he tells all his first-grade friends how he kicks rear on Tux Racer and they'll want it too...

..okay, I can dream, can't I?

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[filesiteguy]

Open source needs open arms. the open arms to newbies is one of the reasons I am with Linspire and Freespire even though it is "too simple" for me.

Very well written and well-said. I've been using SuSE/SUSE for about two years now. I'm actually rather frustrated with the current version and the things I'm needing to do to keep it running. I wonder if it isn't time to actually try Lindows and see what it can do. My only major concern with it was the cost and the running as root. Seeing, however, that I pay roughly $50/year for SUSE upgrades and also purchase Crossover Office, my cost argument is mute. I've also read you can run as a normal user under Lindows. I remember them having codes which you can use to download the distro for free. I'll have to check into this.

My only concern now is the version of KDE. I've gotten very used to 3.5 and would hate to be forced back.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[AnotherCaptainTux]

Thank you. The older version of KDE is a temporary thing. Sometime in the fourth quarter of 2006, Freespire 1.1 will be released with more recent kernels, KDE, etc etc etc. The Leadersip Board wanted a build out ASAP so they based it off the current Linspire build. I've been running as user since day one on Linspire and never had an issue...strike that, I CNR'd a game that sound only worked on root...the game was not all that great anyway ;).

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[CronoCloud]

Don't forget Nethack. If he starts playing in first grade he'll probably have his first acension by high school graduation.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Jherek Carnelian]

The conclusion that I came to was "consumerist training". People are taught to think like that -- just watch TV if you don't believe me. These people have a strong "feeling" that if you pay for something it has to be better. In short, they're "Americans" with "American values".

Well, if paying for music and movies instead of downloading them for free is the "right" thing to do, then clearly it is "right" to pay for software instead of downloading it for free too.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[westlake]

I am curious how many people use this as their main distro, and how they got there. I have yet to run into a single person who has settled on this. Hell, I've barely even run into anyone interested in trying it.

The home and SOHO user is not a system builder. He is not a free or open source ideologue. Proprietary software, binary drivers, DRM. Zero marks for political correctness.

Linux is simply a plausible alternative to Windows. Nothing more.

OEM Linspire has at least a minimal presence in big box retail. Now and again pre-loaded on systems with with specs above the bottom-feeders. Your licensed DVD player is one click and $20 away.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[intnsred]

Well, if paying for music and movies instead of downloading them for free is the "right" thing to do, then clearly it is "right" to pay for software instead of downloading it for free too.

Are these business models set in stone? Are these busincess models mandated by law? (FYI, there are alternative business models.)

I don't know where music or movies came in, but I do know that many musicians allow their music to be freely downloaded -- they see it not only as a good PR move to build buzz and their fan base, but also a smart business decision. And aren't some movies (e.g. Fahrenheit 911) allowed to be freely downloaded?

Believe it or not, once upon a time (in my lifetime even!) in the US, you could legally swap any media as long as it was not for commercial gain (but then rightist politicians came to power and rewrote the copyright laws for their big business funders).

In terms of software, again, it depends on the business model. I used to be a member of the Debian project and run the help web site noted in the URL above. I know that I've put in far more time and raw money into Debian in the past X years than I would have if I ran some commercial software -- isn't that "paying" for software? Debian's non-profit business model encourages such community participation, and it's been quite successful.

Again, the "pay to play" business model is not the only model. I'd even go so far as to say that it's dying not only for computer software but it's dying for music also.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Monsuco]

Paying for home desktop Linux just strikes me as....bizarre. ...Unless there is some significant advantage to this distribution

Well, keep in mind, Linspire is reasonably common (for Linux anyways) on OEM boxes. Koobox and other small PC manufacturers sell PCs with Linspire on them. It really isn't all that pricy (compaired to Windows) and it does have benefits. Legal DVD playback, MP3 support, WMA support, Flash, Java, graphics drivers, Winmodem stuff, Wi-Fi stuff, and other stuff comes out of the box (oddly, so does KQEMU I think). Freespire is similar, only it is free, community supported, and doesn't have some of the commercial stuff (though most is there). Keep in mind, most /. users could figure out how to install ATI drivers, libdvdcss, and MP3 codecs, but most non-geeks could not (and many wouldn't know what a driver or codec is). Freespire is also a Free (as in beer) distro that has proprietary stuff out of the box. True, I use Ubuntu, but that is because I know how to set up my graphics card and install codecs, but this may surprise some of you, not everyone wants to learn to use linux. Most people want their PC to check e-mail, IM friends, write documents, look at pictures, play music, and play games on. Few people want to do much else. Linspire accomplishes this just as well as any other OS or distro. Also, Linspire does support Open Source projects. As for them making a free distro, it is in no way new. Red Hat started Fedora, and in adition to Linspire, Novel Suse, Xandros, and Mandrivia all have community editions. As for money, OEM support ensures that if Koobox (and the Wal-Mart boxes with Linspire) stay in business then so will Linspire. They also make money via commission for Click N Buy, selling Linspire OS, and of course, tech support. They also have CNR Gold for discounts on Click N Buy and upgrading the regular Linspire OS requires you either buy an upgrade or have CNR gold for a full distribution upgrade (such as when 6.0 arrives).

Well, and of course, if you don't think spire is worth your money, don't buy it, if you think it is, do so.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can see the traces of this notion when someone asks you "If I buy this application instead of using warez, it won't crash aagain will it?". And when you say, no they will give a different key that you use and that's all, their face get into a different shape.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[filesiteguy]

Well, I'll have to give it a go. My 10.1 laptop is pretty much FUBAR right now, and I need to reinstall. I may as well go with this, since I'm interested in such things as http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/linux_dvd_scooby .jpg DVD playback and http://www.perfectreign.com/stuff/suse/desktop+mp3 .jpg MP3 playback. I can do it on SUSE but I'd love to have an officially supported player so that the Men In Black don't show up at my door. (It freaked me out enough, when a bunch showed up at work the other week. Turned out to be a visit by Michael Chertoff for somethingoranother in the building next door.)

As I said, I'd been jaded by the bad press about Lindows/Linspire, but if it is a solid distro with good hardware support and easy administration, that's what I want. My 64-year-old mother's been using SuSE 9.2 for over a year now. If this works, I might get her to migrate to Linspire as well. She finds administring even with YaST very challenging.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Jherek Carnelian]

Dude - i-r-o-n-y - learn it, use it, love it.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[sgage]

Patrick,

Well said, indeed. That was just about one of the most clear-headed, straightforward, and unpretentious posts that I've ever read on the ol' /. I am seriously considering giving Linspire a try!

- sgage

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps your i-r-o-n-y would be more useful if it were less subtle? Clearly, several people didn't get it (the responder, the person who marked it 'flamebait'), which probably means the fault is with your humor. But I'm sure you'll blame everyone else for not being smart enough to get it, while missing the fact that people don't think you're funny.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Jherek Carnelian]

Perhaps your i-r-o-n-y would be more useful if it were less subtle?

And if it were less subtle, then it would not be irony.

Clearly, several people didn't get it (the responder, the person who marked it 'flamebait'), which probably means the fault is with your humor.

Oh yeah, 2 people, really meaningful sample size you got there. And how do you know the flamebaiter didn't just disagree with my point? People mod stuff they don't like flamebait all the time, after all I was baiting, although not flame-baiting, the copying-music-and-movies-is-theft crowd, plenty of their members here on the dot. At least he had the ballz to take his judgement in metamod, unlike those who use "overrated" for stuff they disagree with.

But I'm sure you'll blame everyone else for not being smart enough to get it, while missing the fact that people don't think you're funny.

Good, because I was not trying to be funny, else I would have used h-u-m-o-r.

Here's a trivially obtained, yet very apropos definition of irony, just for you:
Irony is a form of utterance that postulates a double audience, consisting of one party that hearing shall hear and shall not understand, and another party that, when more is meant than meets the ear, is aware, both of that "more" and of the outsider's incomprehension.
--Henry Watson Fowler

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

And if it were less subtle, then it would not be irony.
Sure it would. Somebody other than you might get it, too.

Oh yeah, 2 people, really meaningful sample size you got there.
From your still-standing flamebait mod I'd say those are the people in this case who matter. Judging from your posting history I'd say there are a few others, too. But I'm sure you have adoring crowds somewhere.

And how do you know the flamebaiter didn't just disagree with my point?
How do you know the flamebaiter didn't slip when he meant to mark you +1 Insightful? I'm sure that's what he meant to do. Unfortunately the only thing we have to go on is the actual evidence.

I was baiting, although not flame-baiting
wtf? baiting is baiting.

...and of the outsider's incomprehension.
Looks like you just blamed GP for not being smart enough to get it. That means you're not only insecure and arrogant but not as smart as you think you are. Does that drive you insane? Does it make you want to come after me, too? That's what makes you such an easy target for other flamebaiters. Prove that you're not a target by shutting the fuck up.

Now that's baiting, flame or otherwise. And you'll fall for it.

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Jherek Carnelian]

Prove that you're not a target by shutting the fuck up.

Make me.

Now that's baiting, flame or otherwise. And you'll fall for it.

You've no idea of the ennui that motivates me. Clearly you are a fanboi, else you would not have spent the effort to look at my posting history. Would you care to deny that you've been baited into entertaining me?

Re:Does anyone actually use this?

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a funny thread. Some loser trying desperately to pretend that he was flamebaiting on purpose after first claiming to be misunderstood, only to get modded with another flamebait mod. Priceless.

Re:Yeah, yeah, I know....

[Anonymous Coward]

You'll have to check with your mom about how many of your imaginary friends can live in the basement with you.

Unfortunately....

[bigredradio]

Slashdot readers will still hate them. They can't seem to get a break.

Re:Unfortunately....

[Anonymous Coward]

1. I read slashdot for the news items.
2. I use and love Freespire.
3. I have long since learned to ignore the many ignorant rants here.

CNR is great, but their customized apps suck!

[ylikone]

I had my mother-in-law running on Linspire 5.0, having switched from Windows 98. It was great as it eliminated the support I had to give every time Win98 crashed or something went wonky. I switched her to Linspire because I figured it has the easiest method of installation. You run CNR, browse the apps in the categories, see screenshots and descriptions, click to install, icon gets put on desktop. Excellent! But then the problems started. Many of Linspires default branded apps, suchs as Lphoto, just had too many bugs to be usuable. Even with a fully supported HP deskjet printer, Lphoto refused to print the way the preview windows showed. Thunderbird refused to print emails with anything other than a huge font. Simple programs that should perform simple just didn't work. I run ArchLinux and my software all works the way I expect it to... I don't know what Linpsire did to screw things up. Anyway, she sprung for paying for WinXP and I installed that for her. It seems that Linspire, while having the easiest install system, is not ready for grandma yet.

Re:CNR is great, but their customized apps suck!

[BigAssRat]

So if I understand you correctly, you're saying that your Grandma is also your Mother-In-Law? (sorry, I saw it and I had to take it, no offense hopefully)

Re:CNR is great, but their customized apps suck!

[ylikone]

No, she's only my mother-in-law, but we call her grandma around here because that is what my son calls her.

True

[ylikone]

While I am not personally a Linspire user, it always annoys me when ignorant people complain about them charging for free software. They never did! The free software was always free. If you choose to use the CNR method to install it, you had to pay $20/year for the service of doing so. You didn't pay for all the free software it installed for you though.

Re: True

[Anonymous Coward]

Potato, potato.

*plonk*

People who like easy installs

[ylikone]

CNR is unquestionably the BEST software installer on ANY distro or Windows or Mac. Screenshots, description and reviews before you single-click-to-get-it-installed-with-an-icon-on-y our-desktop is hard to beat!

Community to be led by.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Rob Enderle.

After wowing the open source advocates at Carmony's festival this year with his brilliant understanding of Open Source, GNU, GPL and Linux, Carmony decided that since no one threw a tomato at Rob's head during the presentation, he would be the ideal person to gather everyone around with.

Uh,

[rice_burners_suck]

Information was always meant to be free anyway.

Re:Uh,

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it wasn't. That's a common misconception.

Re:Uh,

[Anonymous Coward]

Information wants you to turn the plane around and fly to Havana because this is a hijacking?

FreeDows

[insanarchist]

great, now I'm hungry.

Re:Let me see

[halivar]

Umm.... I don't see the castigation. Maybe you should chill out? Maybe?

And WTF do Republicans have to do with it? Or fascists, for that matter?

Re:Let me see

[Anonymous Coward]

He's just mad cause I slept with his mother.

They were killed by ubuntu

[Anonymous Coward]

Debian and Unbuntu with apt-get etc, made installing packages so easy, they could not compete anymore.

volume

[oohshiny]

It may be free, but they are going to make up for that in volume.

Re:volume

[EnsilZah]

Looks like the same goes for all the people posting this joke.

TOO LATE LINSPIRE

[aztechClanIII]

Installed linspire for some people, and they were so dumb they didn't realize when CNR expired their license. Anyways, that led to the system being compromised and eventually rendered un-usable. I had to rescue their files, and then I installed Ubuntu. Free updates = More users. Damn you linspire, you shoulda done this sooner.

They are selling PowerDVD for Linux

[Aggrajag]

Finally I can get a legal solution for playing DVD's on Linux. I just hope that I can get it running with other distros than Linspire. http://www.linspire.com/lindows_products_details.p hp?product_id=25183&pg=specs

Re:They are selling PowerDVD for Linux

[smchris]

Does it matter? Pay your money, keep the receipt and you've presumably got a right to have libdvdcss code on your hard drive. It's having the encryption algorithm without a license that's the hardcore felony, isn't it?

Barely a week after the sale ended

[Xtifr]

Wow, I just bought a Linspire machine last week that was on sale at Fry's for $129.00 + tax. Not that I'm running Linspire, of course. I dropped in my old HD with Debian on it. (Dropped in a few other things too, but that's beside the point.) But I've still got the Linspire HD, and haven't even reformatted it yet. If I don't have to pay for CNR, I might even plug it in and play with it first.

I still think I made the right choice by setting up my aunt with Ubuntu instead of Linspire, but I might have to take a closer look at Linspire now. Especially since I just happen to have a copy here. :)

I have to say that I was very happy to not give money to MS. Whatever else you might say about Linspire, they do make it easier to buy a pre-assembled, burnt-in machine without paying the MS tax, and I think that's a good thing. The sales-droid at Fry's did try to talk me out of buying the machine (they don't make any commission on the in-house brands), but as soon as I said, "I don't want to give Microsoft any money," she stopped arguing and got me my box. :)

Don't you get it??

[KevinCarmoney]

Well, considering Linspire is in it's death rattle, I'm making CNR free because I have no tricks left up my sleeve to get us any sort of press. Hopefully, by giving away our core business service away for free we can increase our user base and sell the our company to Microsoft for $5000 rather than losing our asses.

Yawn. Ubuntu's "Adept" slams CNR

[totro2]

Ubuntu isn't the most popular Linux for nothing. Their software has been free and easy to install and run by novie users for quite a while now. I'll also bet Ubuntu's mirrors hold more packages than Linspire's. This is likely a dying gasp from Linspire, who lost their unique selling proposition (graphical software package installation) when Ubuntu rose in popularity, and stuck it under novice user's noses for free.

Sounds like a bomb

[BentSorenDahl]

"click-and-run is free".. what's this?

CLICK!

Oh no!! RUUUUN!!!!!!!

yeah well

[/dev/trash]

Running as root does that to a man.

Re:Yawn. Ubuntu's "Adept" slams CNR

[westlake]

This is likely a dying gasp from Linspire, who lost their unique selling proposition (graphical software package installation) when Ubuntu rose in popularity, and stuck it under novice user's noses for free.

Linspire's "unique selling proposition" is the OEM system install and placement in big box retail. The plug and play home appliance users expect when thry go shopping for a Windows PC or the Mac.

Why Didn't This Happen at Linux World?

[Snowcap557]

The timing of this announcement is odd. It would have made a lot of sense to announce this at Linux World two weeks ago. CEO Carmony was all over the place and you couldn't get away without getting multiple copies of Freespire. It wasn't that hard to get a copy of Linspire either. But Carmody was saying that his company made its money from charging for CNR. Two weeks later CNR is free. I don't know why that change occurred, and there can be any number of reasons for it, but I have a thought. Perhaps the usual response by the attendees at the Lindows Lounge was simply, "I ain't paying for this no matter what." Or perhaps the sign up factor for CNR after the show was dismal. I don't think you throw out your business model because a bunch of geeks walk away from you. But maybe if you need those geeks to get more business down the road, maybe you do.

Re:Why Didn't This Happen at Linux World?

[AnotherCaptainTux]

If you read the press releases, you will see that there are two levels of CNR, basic and Gold. Few people take the basic option. Are they sacrificing some revenue? Perhaps. It might also be true and crazy enough to believe that Linspire has been giving money and code to projects for years...more so than distros that are gratis. More so than many distros that are commercial. It is possible that while Linux users who prefer other distros have been spreading FUD about this distro and others helping the MS cause by dividing our Bazaar have missed the fact that Linspire and Kevn Carmony might actually get FOSS.

why linspire is the black sheep or used to be

[luther349]

when linspire first came out it was a pay only distro with no free download so it was quickly tossed by any real linux user. thats why alot of its stuff is outdated no real users would dare port anything to it. nore tuch cnr to be honest cnr is no better then apt-get and its millions of gui frontends. then distros like ubuntu came along offering totaly free direct competion to them installing ati or nivida driver was only a matter of enabling all the respoys threw its gui then hitting request install. just as easy to use and alot faster. it makes alot of sence to open up linspire couse of they didnt it would keep being ignored by the linux world. it removes the main reasion there hated and will help them grow quickly.

Re:why linspire is the black sheep or used to be

[Sfing_ter]

that's bullshit; the main distro is like debian stable, everything works together; that is why they are behind the bleeding edge; same with Xandros - the pieces all fit together, security updates yes, but no debian etch. Free/LinSPIRE is further along on many of the packages, kde et. al. than Xandros, but they are still behind. This is part of the reason for opening it and making it free, U/K/X/N-buntu brought us nice looks, up-to-dates packages and the ability to freely choose your wm, this has forced *spire to rethink itself.

They will have apt fully functional also so no need to use the clunky CNR; it is nice for people who are used to the ways of windows but when I want something installed/updated i want it now, not after you've shown me a description and a screenshot and told me all kinds of wonderful things about the program...

*spire was a blacksheep because they made Linux easy for anyone to use and say "I run Linux". But I have turned a number of people onto linux by using *spire & CNR as the intro; my daughter uses Mepis and my buddy uses Kubuntu now. He went from Breezy (that I installed) to Dapper on his own by changing the sources file, and damn near peed himself when it was over.

One of the things i like about linux is you can have your 'hardcore compile every-goddamned-program' guys that compare their kernel sizes, and your grandma who just points - clicks and installs the Quake 2 demo :)

Re:why linspire is the black sheep or used to be

[luther349]

thats also true. but i rember hanging out in linux help irc and a linspire user walking in and get laughed out of the room commets like i said or simply use a real distro. cnr is no diffrent from apt it relly isnt. your right the new distros out there relly the case with ubuntu forced linsipre to rethink its busness. debs are self cleaning packges with deborphen so you dont get the clutter with a rpm based distro.

oh please

[grindcorefan]

This is no big news at all. If you'd read the press releases linspire wrote in order to announce their freespire distro you could have foretold it all. Back then linspire already announced they would make cnr free of charge for freespire users. Back then they already promised to open-source the cnr client software. It was just a matter of time, so how is this big news?

This is just another attempt by kevin carmony to get some cheap viral marketing going, and it seems the media is stupid enough again to take the bait.

cnr might be a nice feature for a GNU/Linux distro, but it is by no means essential. It is just another way of locking users in by tying them to some non-free software. Well, why don't you just go back to ms then?

this is kind of funny

[Anonymous Coward]

i am an old linux head.. slackware via floppies on the first run. i am also a gamer. when the urge arose to step back into the ring with some flavour of linux, i found myself checking about a bunch of distros.. i simply dont have time to deal with something like slackware or gentoo. i tried a free demo of linspire that my girlfriend had found online and while it looked nice, the paying for apps CNR service just struck me as a bit lame. i finally landed with ubuntu and have never been more stoked. in fact, after finding TC:E i converted all of my windows machines to linux.

just my $0.02