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Internet Not the Social Hinder it Was

imjustatomato writes "A 1998 study showed that the Internet causes declines in social relationships and isolation, similarly to how television causes social disengagement and bad moods. This is the 'Internet Paradox' because while the internet is heavily used for communication, it makes people lonelier. However, a more recent study shows that now the internet has a positive effect on social and psychological well-being. This is even more so for those who have more social support and are extroverted in nature. Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area."

173 comments

  1. Staring by Threni · · Score: 2, Insightful

    > Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest
    > in living in the local area."

    Anything which involves sitting indoors and staring at a box is likely to decrease your knowledge of your immediate environment, isn't it?

    1. Re:Staring by legoburner · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I dont know, I live in London and have such a large local area that most of the time I dont know what is where. The Internet has helped out a lot, from casual browsing of online mapping services to see what is just outside the immediate area, to sites like up my street which lets me find any businesses near me. I have learned a lot more about my area from the Internet than I have by just going out and exploring (which I do fairly often as well).

    2. Re:Staring by Crysalim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Quite the opposite. You can learn a great deal from staring at that "box" in your room. Those people at the City Hall (or bar, or restaurant, or whatever fictional place people need to "get outside and go to") wouldn't be able to tell you about the current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon.

      Those people are too busy superficially socializing and killing brain cells to drown out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are.

      Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).

    3. Re:Staring by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 1
      Those people are too busy superficially socializing and killing brain cells to drown out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are.
      Those people may not know the latest definition of a planet, or the current state of affairs in the middle east, but they are meeting with, and interacting with, other people in a very real way. It seems to me that it's you who needs to get a life, and find out that there's a vast amount more to it than the definition of a planet, or the current state of affairs in the middle east. It's called real relationships with real people (and some of them are women!)
      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    4. Re:Staring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Need a hug, shut in?

      "....current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon."

      I think you just proved his/her point. The things you mention have nothing to do with your immediate environment.

      "Those people at the City Hall (or bar, or restaurant, or whatever fictional place people need to 'get outside and go to'...." City Hall and bars are fictional? Oh dear, somebody needs to get out more. I think you'll find they tend to know more about the goings on in your neighborhood than any website.

      If the only human to human socializing you engage in is superficial, I submit that YOU are the one who needs to find a different peer group. Sounds like you're resulting to the ever-so-amusing argument that "everybody else has the problem, not me."

      Find an amateur astronomy club if you want to discuss planetary classfication. Hang out with folks with similar interests. They can become these mythical things called "friends." Like the saying goes, if you're unhappy in your life, what's the largest common element of your unhappy experiences? Maybe YOU are.

    5. Re:Staring by PerlDudeXL · · Score: 1

      I met quite a few local people via Flickr.

    6. Re:Staring by IndigoParadox · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Did he specifically say he was unhappy, though?

      Lack of physical interpersonal interaction doesn't necessarily lead to unhappiness, does it?

    7. Re:Staring by BoomerSooner · · Score: 4, Funny

      See social sites aren't all bad!

      Facebook
      MySpace
      OKCupid (free dating site)

      Hell think of all the underaged girls & boys you can meet and stalk! Hell it might even get you famous on TV!! Yea, Dateline!! (okay the last part was a joke)

    8. Re:Staring by Crysalim · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Does that make your comment "unreal" then?

      Protip: social skills and the internet are not mutually exclusive.

    9. Re:Staring by Silver+Sloth · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Protip: social skills and the internet are not mutually exclusive.

      No,they're not, but thinking that you are somehow superior because you spend your time on the internet rather than going to bars, or restaurants and superficially socializing and killing brain cells is mutally exclusive with social skills. I'm a bit internet user, after all I'm here. But in six hours time I'm going out to meet my friends down the pub, we'll have a few pints and a laugh and not give a damn about the status of Pluto, or the middle east. In the OPs views I'll be drowning out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are. In my view I'll be having fun with a few mates - and that's where good social skills are learnt.

      --
      init 11 - for when you need that edge.
    10. Re:Staring by whiskeyriver · · Score: 1

      Hey guys, I keep hearing about this "sunlight" stuff. What is it? I searched Wikipedia, but the article kept changing...

      --



      That's sooo Osama bin Laden.
    11. Re:Staring by kjart · · Score: 1

      Quite the opposite. You can learn a great deal from staring at that "box" in your room. Those people at the City Hall (or bar, or restaurant, or whatever fictional place people need to "get outside and go to") wouldn't be able to tell you about the current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon.

      Yeah, he said immediate environment, genius. Though if you lived in Israel/Lebanon you probably wouldn't have to go outside to know what's going on.

    12. Re:Staring by dragonsomnolent · · Score: 5, Funny

      To be sure, if you lived in Israel/Lebanon, it might even behoove you to not go outside to find out what's going on.

      --
      I got nuthin
    13. Re:Staring by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      So basically, in 1998 most of the intraverted geeks were interested in the internet, and thus the internet was an antisocial activity. And now the extraverts are getting on board...

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    14. Re:Staring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I live in Toronto and I also wouldn't find anything unless I checked the Internet first to figure out where it was and how to get there. I also browse website reviews of local restaraunts to figure out where I want to eat next. The internet has greatly increased my knowledge of the area and I don't see any relation myself to being on the internet and wanting to leave Toronto (it's the pollution and getting outside that make me want to leave Toronto ;-).

      So one study says it makes people unsocial and another says it makes people social, to me these studies don't say as much about the internet as they do about people generating studies - studies have a tendency to reflect what the original opinion of the people conducting the study and not so much realistic facts.

    15. Re:Staring by MECC · · Score: 1

      My virutal internet girlfriends all tell me that using the internet makes me a stud.

      --
      "We are all geniuses when we dream"
      - E.M. Cioran
    16. Re:Staring by NRO826 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Um, thats not what my sims told me when i spent three straight days playing sims 2

    17. Re:Staring by JockTroll · · Score: 0

      ... able to tell you about the current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon.

      So what? Is there anything you can do about those topics? You can talk until you've talked yourself out, your opinions will still be worth shit.

      Nerds. Always thinking their "opinion" are worth more than dog crap. All those beatings in high school never taught them anything.

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    18. Re:Staring by LindseyJ · · Score: 2, Insightful

      'Good social skills' are not learnt at the pub, my friend. They are purposefully discarded there ;)

    19. Re:Staring by mysticgoat · · Score: 1

      And now the extraverts are getting on board...

      ...And new aspects of the internet have been evolving to engage these extraverts.

      Which also benefits us intraverts. I'm now aware of many more local activities than I used to be. For instance, I participated in a group bicycle ride last weekend (of about 1,000 people) that I would never have been aware of if I hadn't been lurking on a bike-oriented local news list. Had a fun time. Actually talked with half a dozen strangers at the watering stations.

    20. Re:Staring by (A)*(B)!0_- · · Score: 1
      "Did he specifically say he was unhappy, though?"
      No, but he did put down people who are involved in local activities. If he's going to make the statement that his life is better than people who are in bars or city hall (the fact that that was his idea of what people do is quite telling), then when someone replies and tells him that his lifestyle is inferior, you can't suddenly act like the OP is the victim here.

      The guy made a sweeping statement based on poor logic. Someone replied and told him how he was missing the point. It was never a question of whether he was happy; it was a matter of refuting his flawed argument.

      And no, he didn't say he was unhappy but he obviously is.

    21. Re:Staring by Alex+P+Keaton+in+da · · Score: 1

      I dont agree 100%- I believe the internet can supplement knowledge of your local area. Case in point- I use the internet to find new places to ride my bike. With google maps I can scout out new trails. I have found new places in my own environment (The Cuyahoga Valley national Recreation Area) in a few clicks that would have taken me years to discover by just wandering around. And although this may make me an uber-geek, when I miss a point of interest sign while riding my bike, I can read it online later.
      I see things all the time in my neighborhood that I then look up online, whether it is a new restaurant, developmemt, road etc. You may argue that by looking it up online I deprive myself of the opportunity to discover it offline on my own, however I am not an outgoing person who asks questions in real life, so w/out the net, I would just end up never knowing...
      The internet also allows me to gather a ton of news about my immediate environment by reading newspapers online that I would not spend the money on otherwise (Ohio.com for the Akron Beacon Journal, cleveland.com for the cleveland plain dealer, and heck I even read the Youngstown and Canton papers- two things I would never buy).
      You could also go a few levels into creepiness if you want- who are those fine looking females that live in your apartment building? Well, by jumping on myspace or facebook, you are likely to find out of they are single. You can also find out what kind of music they like, and then play it in your apartment a little too loud to attract them... If that is nt learning about your immediate environment, I don't know what is.
      You can find registered sex offenders in the neighborhood. You can find out what your neighbors house is worth, without having to wander down to city hall... There is a huge tract of land near me that is empty with no trespassing signs- I very knew what was there, but with google maps I discover a lake that is a few acres large. I never would have poked around there in real life- I live in rural Ohio, and poking around a place like that, you are likely to see someone with a shotgun with with 8 shells, and a mouth with 6 teeth...
      Anyhow- that is just my 2 cents. And for what it is worth, there is no one around me that I could have a discussion about these things with- but here we are online having a discussion... so that is good for something, right?!?!?

      --
      And All I Ask is a Tall Ship And a Star to Steer Her By
    22. Re:Staring by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was here last night. I'll probably be at NitWhit's tonight, since I' haven't heard "Dirty Ernie's". If they suck I may go somewhere else.

      What's all this about "frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area"?

      I don't get it.

    23. Re:Staring by g33uu · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hell think of all the underaged girls & boys you can meet and stalk! Hell it might even get you famous on TV!! Yea, Dateline!! (okay the last part was a joke)

      I agree, stalking is no fun if you get caught. Boo, Dateline! Yea, stalking!!

    24. Re:Staring by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).

      Life is all about mod points and meta moding. Physical life is more about moding with social points though.

    25. Re:Staring by soliloqy · · Score: 1

      Agreed... I moved to Los Angeles three years ago and the internet has been invaluable in helping me figure out how to get around the city and what sorts of areas have things I like. There are tons of small restaurants, bars, and clubs that I never would have found without the internet.

    26. Re:Staring by daniil · · Score: 1

      hose people at the City Hall (or bar, or restaurant, or whatever fictional place people need to "get outside and go to") wouldn't be able to tell you about the current situation on definition of planets, or the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon. Those people are too busy superficially socializing and killing brain cells to drown out the idea that there's something more to life than what other people's preconceived notions are.

      I think you're wrong. You're wrong in thinking that these (that is, the state of affairs in Israel/Lebanon, or the current situation on definition of planets) are the things that are important. They might seem important today, but in two years, the current Israel-Lebanon conflict will be all but forgotten and the debate on whether Pluto should meet the definition or a planet or not will probably have found a solution. It could also happen that a satisfactory definition of a planet will never be found, but in that case, the reasons for this will go way beyond the current debate. What's happening now is never what's really important. There's always more to things than their state at some given moment in time.

      --
      Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
  2. Well son. . . . by Don_dumb · · Score: 3, Funny

    . . . "we are going to go to where the internet is really good."

    --
    If this were really happening, what would you think?
    1. Re:Well son. . . . by RuBLed · · Score: 3, Funny

      ..."No daddy, basement is good and the raid would start at 18:00 GMT and I have to give this item to xXxMrPiratexXx cause it's his birthday today."

  3. interest in leaving by The+Dark+Caller · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I find the bit about less local interest interesting as I know that I had little desire to leave Tennessee until I began surfing the internet regularly, meeting people from other places and reading about them on online news sites. Indeed, the first time I truly wanted to leave my state came when I 'dated' a girl online. . . and it's thanks to internet research that I ended up here at Boston U. Naturally curious person enabled by the net, or innocent Southern boy corrupted by the tubes'o'satan?

    --
    [Terribly witty statement]
    1. Re:interest in leaving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tubes? You have more than one?

    2. Re:interest in leaving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Or is it just a case of "grass is greener" syndrome?

    3. Re:interest in leaving by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      If you're anywhere near college-age, Boston is greener than just about anywhere else.

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    4. Re:interest in leaving by JonathanR · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, his CRT monitor, and the other tube is, er... his vas deferens.

    5. Re:interest in leaving by JoloK · · Score: 0

      Funny, I've been in Tennessee for almost two years, and I've wanted nothing but to leave since I arrived here. I've used the internet to distract me from the idiocy and sheer, thick bone-headedness that's so prevalent here.

      --
      JoloK
    6. Re:interest in leaving by kjart · · Score: 1

      or innocent Southern boy corrupted by the tubes'o'satan?

      So that was you that clogged the tubes with your "love".

    7. Re:interest in leaving by Anarke_Incarnate · · Score: 1

      Be thankful I had just finished my breakfast or it would be ALL OVER my monitor after that comment.

    8. Re:interest in leaving by kabocox · · Score: 1

      Indeed, the first time I truly wanted to leave my state came when I 'dated' a girl online. . . and it's thanks to internet research that I ended up here at Boston U. Naturally curious person enabled by the net, or innocent Southern boy corrupted by the tubes'o'satan?

      You weren't corrupted by the net; you were tempted by the age old passion of physical time with the oppsite sex!

  4. 2002 by skinnyrake · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The most recent of the two articles was published in 2002. Is this really relevant to the internet of 2006?

    --
    S.D.Rycroft http://www.simon.rycroft.name
    1. Re:2002 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not relevant since they couldn't count WoW players in their study!

    2. Re:2002 by gEvil+(beta) · · Score: 1

      Seriously, we were still using Web 1.0 back then...

      --
      This guy's the limit!
    3. Re:2002 by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      Wha? There's a new version out? When did this happen, my Firefox didn't notify me of an update! Damn, it's going to take ages to download the new internets with my slow 1 Mbps ADSL. :(

  5. Diversity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
    The data are from 208 members of 93 Pittsburgh families, to whom we provided a
    computer and access to the Internet in 1995 or 1996. The families were recruited through four
    high school journalism programs and four community development organizations in 8 Pittsburgh
    neighborhoods. The sample was more demographically diverse than was typical of Internet users
    at the time.
    OK, great they are more demographically diverse. But they are hardly socially diverse. If the study is going to pick journalism students and community development groups they are probably going to find people who are already quite extroverted. This certainly doesn't disprove the idea that introverted people will become more introverted because with the Internet they no longer have to interact as much in society.
    1. Re:Diversity by tygerstripes · · Score: 1, Offtopic
      Also, I have to question any study that deigns to correlate interest in "local affairs" against anything when the statistical population is entirely from PITTSBURG!


      (j/k - I'm from the UK)

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    2. Re:Diversity by karnal · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never been to Cleveland.

      Although, let's be honest - I don't understand why people have to dig on towns. I live in Columbus, Ohio. Yes, it's not party central, but I'm not a "party" kind of guy. I enjoy the city for what it is and make a decent living - along with a decent average cost of living.

      Just because something sucks for you, doesn't mean everyone in the town is miserable...

      --
      Karnal
    3. Re:Diversity by kfg · · Score: 1, Funny

      Just because something sucks for you, doesn't mean everyone in the town is miserable...

      I was just riffing on Twain, Fields and Smirnoff.

      As Smirnoff says he doesn't mean any harm by knocking on Cleveland, it's just that every country has a city that it makes jokes about an in America it's Cleveland. In Russia they have a city they make jokes about too; it's . . .Cleveland.

      I come from a city that has been hailed in the national news as the "Cockroach Capital of the World" and has been a standing joke city for about a century. I don't get particularly bent over it, even though, well, most of it is true.

      KFG

    4. Re:Diversity by karnal · · Score: 1

      Yea, I actually didn't mean that in the way it was typed :) It was more meant as a vent against all of the "my city sucks" posts I seem to see.

      --
      Karnal
    5. Re:Diversity by kfg · · Score: 1

      It was more meant as a vent against all of the "my city sucks" posts I seem to see.

      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean. . .

      Oddly enough when my city was in its heyday of being a joke city is when I learned to love it. It was, very simply, the unchallenged geekiest place on Earth. Even the blue collar workers were geeky in their own way (motorheads, model train buffs, electronics hobbeists, etc.).

      The place could have been (and for all I know was) the very model for Eureka! We actually used to have city employees whose job was to return cars to the absent minded geeks who had wandered off and forgotten them during the day, including, occasionally, in the middle of the street with the motor running.

      But the money dried up and the Teslas and Bethes followed the money. The Crack Hos flowed into the vacuum . . . and there ya go. The place really does kinda suck now. So badly that, as I noted a little while ago, the major geek employer goes to rather great lengths on its employment opportunities webpage to not mention that they are actually here, noting instead all the great places that "here" is next to.

      Such is life.

      I'm no party animal either though; so when I look for other places I might like to go they all turn out to be places where the money has also left, or never had any money in the first place; and it's easier to stay put than to move just to end up in the same condition.

      KFG

  6. Well of course... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...since 1998 the internet has helped make available viagra for all!

  7. Quick hypothesis by SamSim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm gonna guess that the main difference here that in 1998, internet relationships weren't counted as "real" relationships.

    1. Re:Quick hypothesis by Tab+is+on+Slashdot · · Score: 1

      Hint: as far as most people are concerned, they still aren't. Though it is very easy to argue on both sides of that fence.

    2. Re:Quick hypothesis by radtea · · Score: 1

      'm gonna guess that the main difference here that in 1998, internet relationships weren't counted as "real" relationships.

      Or it could possibly be that both the previous negative and current positive effects are small, and have been overly-hyped by the press. Looking at the article, I notice something to the effect of "barely statistically significant".

      Remember, a 2 sigma effect is suprious about 3% of the time, and so if a hundred studies are done by psychologists on the effect of the internets, 3 are certain to result in irreproducible results that get reported as gospel truth. Which is pretty much what they are, come to think of it.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  8. Define social and psychological well-being by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One of the answers might relate to the definition of social and psychological well-being. For example; in 1998 if someone said to have numerous online friends, they where looked upon as anti-social and unable to make friend in the real world. This is beginning to change.

    1. Re:Define social and psychological well-being by legoburner · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is very true, and still true amongst non-Internet users as well. I have had some funny looks from luddites in the past when refering to Internet friends (though more often than not they are more sincerely curious about how one goes about making friends on the Internet)

    2. Re:Define social and psychological well-being by indifferent+children · · Score: 5, Funny
      they are more sincerely curious about how one goes about making friends on the Internet

      You pop into a chat room and announce, "I'm a cute, lonely 13 year old girl." The friends practically make themselves.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    3. Re:Define social and psychological well-being by CagedBear · · Score: 1

      I'll second this. I remember in 2000 a coworker found it incrediby strange, even perverse that I was trying to meet women on the internet.

      Well, I met a woman on Yahoo during that time and we just celebrated our 5th anniversary.

    4. Re:Define social and psychological well-being by swillden · · Score: 1

      more often than not they are more sincerely curious about how one goes about making friends on the Internet

      Duh. You do it just like in real life:

      With your credit card.

      Right?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    5. Re:Define social and psychological well-being by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I never understood that attitude either, along with the "well it's just the internet" excuse people dig out when somebody complains about them being an asshole. Both groups forget one very important thing:

      There's a human being on the other end.

  9. La Ley by xtracto · · Score: 1

    This is the 'Internet Paradox' because while the internet is heavily used for communication, it makes people lonelier.

    "Tantos satélites en la era comunicacional aún no logran acercarnos totalmente bien"

    --
    Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    1. Re:La Ley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Tantos satélites en la era comunicacional aún no logran acercarnos totalmente bien


      Translation:

      "Many satellites were inside, with us before the interior come close
      the good full communicational of the fist already".

      Hmm.. me too...?

    2. Re:La Ley by xtracto · · Score: 2, Informative

      Tantos satélites en la era comunicacional aún no logran acercarnos totalmente bien

      Translation:

      "Many satellites were inside, with us before the interior come close
      the good full communicational of the fist already".


      Wow your spanish is pretty screwed.

      the translation is:

      "So many satellites in the communication era still can't make us get totally close" (literally, or so many sattelites in the communication age and we still cant get close enough)

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    3. Re:La Ley by carpeweb · · Score: 1

      Babelfish was the Newton of early web translators, right?

    4. Re:La Ley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't even see where his translator pulled "the fist" from...

  10. 5 years out of date! tell us other old things! by fantomas · · Score: 5, Funny

    For goodness sake, this is pushing it a bit far, reporting on 5 year old papers. In other latest news from 2002 - New Orleans happy with flood defences, Lebanese economy doing well with current peaceful regional politics, British Airways relaxes security on air travel a year after 9/11 .... sigh ! :-)

    1. Re:5 years out of date! tell us other old things! by jb.hl.com · · Score: 1

      I know you were joking, but just yesterday for a laugh I went on the Wayback Machine's archive of BBC News...one of the first headlines was about Israel kicking the shit out of Lebanon...creepy if nothing else.

      --
      By summer it was all gone...now shesmovedon. --
  11. Is this an article? by jkrise · · Score: 1

    There's nothing much in the so-called study, merely an assertion of what's in the headline. The summary and the linked article are almost the same. The only thing noteworthy was, another article from this page appeared on Slashdot recently as well... something to do with "When can I get my email?" or something like that.

    Slow news day?

    --
    If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
    1. Re:Is this an article? by bky1701 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Slow news day?
      If the news was slow, it'd be more easy to catch.

      Sorry, slow news calls for bad jokes.
    2. Re:Is this an article? by bangenge · · Score: 1

      i wish i had mod points... that would have been at least a +3 funny

      --
      . o O ( TwO hEaDs ArE mOrE tHaN oNe... )
  12. Is that a bad thing? by JanneM · · Score: 4, Insightful

    frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area.

    Which of course is not really a negative at all. "The internets" doesn't cause disaffection, it just shows you all the alternatives out there for all those already not happy where they live. No one community is a great place to live in for everybody after all. If it helps you find a place you'll like better it's just good for everyone.

    Also, the ability to have contact with diverse groups no matter where you're physically residing probably helps smooth the rough edges out of living anywhere. If you can cultivate your interests over the net, staying in your community may not chafe as much as it would have done in an earlier era.

    --
    Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    1. Re:Is that a bad thing? by Eivind · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Sure. In the absence of affordable communication and transport, the local environment is all there is, so you'll spend 100% of your time interacting only with your local environment.

      The moment you get newspapers, radio or television, you start becoming *aware* that there's a larger world out there. But it's still one-way, you don't interact with this world, you only receive information from it.

      With cheap travel, internet and telephone you are directly in contact with a lot that isn't in your immediate surrounding.

      I know people in atleast 2 dozen countries. I've got *friends* living on other continents. People I talk to every week (sometimes every day), people I care about. Offcourse this means that I spend *less* time with the "local environment". When the starting-point was 100% local, how could this go any other direction than downwards ?

      You don't need to make it global either. It's the same on a much smaller scale.

      When my great-grandmother was small, (aprox 100 years ago) it was completely unpractical to have friends even 10 miles away. Sure you'd *know* some people living that far away, but communicating with them in any way meant either spending 2 hours for transport, or if you didn't need face-to-face, write a letter and wait several days for an answer.

      The world is shrinking.

      I'm closer to my friends in oh say Texas (Hallo Nadine!) (I live in Norway) in every way that matters than my grandmother was to her boyfriend (later husband) that lived about 50 miles away.

      • I can trivially, and at zero cost talk to her whenever I want. 100 years ago that wasn't possible in rural Norway at all. For large expense (a days pay) a telegram could be sent that'd arrive the same day.
      • I can send her email, and she'll receive it minutes later. 100 years ago a letter would be expensive, and would take on the order of a week to arrive.
      • I can visit her. It takes like 10 hours of travel, and costs on the order of 1 weeks pay. 100 years ago the 50 miles took on the order of 15 hours by horse and boat.
      • I can even send her physical packets, and have them arrive quicker and cheaper than the 50 miles back then.

      In every way that matters *Texas* is closer to western Norway today than two different villages 50 miles from oneanother where 100 years ago.

    2. Re:Is that a bad thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but living in Texas I can safely say that Texas women still make me wanna gouge out my eyeballs with an icepick. ;-)

    3. Re:Is that a bad thing? by tradingfire · · Score: 1

      I am moving to Scandinavia after a long (intuitive) need to move there as a South African. My relentless information hunger which was provided for by the 'internets' has finally ticked the last check box to move. Wish me luck, if u dare.

    4. Re:Is that a bad thing? by Eivind · · Score: 1

      You didn't run into Nadine yet then. Your loss :-)

  13. Web 2.0 anyone ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is all thanks to the Web 2.0 revolution which turned the network into a social network.

    By the way, I'm planning to write a Myspace killer with XHTML, AJAX and RSS and for that I need some funds. Anyone interested ?

    1. Re:Web 2.0 anyone ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah I'll give you my 2 cents

    2. Re:Web 2.0 anyone ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would those be Web2.0(tm) cents?

  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  15. Why does the grass look greener? by Chatsubo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Unlike regional newspapers, for example, the Internet makes news about distant cities as accessible as news about one's hometown."

    But also, we read about the cool things other places are doing on places like slashdot. Of course, we're not interested in all the BAD news about those places. Because the crime news about other places more or less matches that of our own. Maybe that's why the grass looks greener. Because we see all the positive and negative of our own environment, but only the "cool" stuff going on in other places. So naturally we want to go there.

    --
    > no, yes, maybe (tagging beta)
    1. Re:Why does the grass look greener? by russellh · · Score: 1
      Maybe that's why the grass looks greener. Because we see all the positive and negative of our own environment, but only the "cool" stuff going on in other places. So naturally we want to go there.
      on the other hand, the world is just full of interesting things places and people. it puts your own little world in perspective. I don't get the grass-is-greener thing at all; don't be satisfied with what you have and where you are just because that's what you have and where you grew up. Get up and go see all the fantastic things in the world. then you can go home... if you still want to.
      --
      must... stay... awake...
  16. Hinder is not a noun by tez_h · · Score: 5, Informative

    'Hinder' is a verb. The noun form is 'hindrance'.

    --
    Haskell, the static-typed, lazy, polymorphic, programming language.
    1. Re:Hinder is not a noun by chawly · · Score: 2, Informative

      Hindrance is an accepted noun, but so is hinder. Hinder is used as a verb also - as in, "thunderstorms sometimes hinder shuttle launching" but the form "thunderstorms are a hinder to launching the shuttle is perfectly acceptable". Of course the form "sitting and typing shit like this is a hindrance to getting any productive work done" is both perfectly acceptable and perfectly true - and we shouldn't forget it.

      --
      How many beans make five, anyhow ? ... Charles Walmsley
    2. Re:Hinder is not a noun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I disagree. Could you provide some evidence, such as a link to a dictionary page defining the word's noun form as you have?

    3. Re:Hinder is not a noun by tygerstripes · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Also, Haskell is not a programming language - it's a mystical land where institutionalised C programmers go when they've led bad lives, to be fed on by the younger, better adapted functional-programming maths students...

      --
      Meta will eat itself
    4. Re:Hinder is not a noun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Do not let the factual obstalce your believe.
      hinder:
        verb: hinder
        noun: hinderance
    5. Re:Hinder is not a noun by Repugnant_Shit · · Score: 1

      Hinder is a noun, it means BUTTOX. The editors should be aware of this, and retitle the article "Internet Not The Social Buttox It Was"

    6. Re:Hinder is not a noun by DataCannibal · · Score: 1

      Is it fuck a noun. Unless they've changed all the dictionaries in the last few minutes hinder is a verb and only a verb.

      --
      No but, yeah but, no but...
  17. Internet forums helped me open up by rolfwind · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I was painfully shy as a teenager. Was terrified of approaching people in general to talk to them and would avoid most social situations at all costs - I guess I had what psychologists would call a social anxiety disorder. I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.

    Yet it was the internet where I dared post before I ever tried to contribute in such a way in a real life situations. The more I interacted online, the more comfortable (and confident) I felt doing the same in reallife to the point where I can approach strangers and start conversation.

    *Shrugs* Maybe it was the internet or just getting older, as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers. But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive. The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.

    1. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 0, Troll

      I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.

      Get over it, you neo-maxi-zoom-dweebie! We're tired of your fucking whining, and poor spelling! Man up, nancy-boy, the Internet is no place for a wimp!

    2. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by legoburner · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Since you will probably get a lot of crappy replies to your post, I feel I should make a public service announcement by showing Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory.

    3. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      For me too, it was a similar situation, very shy in real life, it was lots easier for me on the Internet.

      I couldn't even post in an internet forum without the fear of humiliation.

      But unlike real life, you can stay as anonymous as you want in a forum. And withdraw if things turn really sour.

      Moreover, most forums have a subject, and if you that subject is sth which you really like (such as computer, Linux, etc.), you don't need to worry about boring people with it, because all other participants are in that forum because they have the same interest.

      So the more I interacted in forums (or rather, Usenet newsgroups, at that time), the more confidence I built for "real life".

      Maybe it was the internet or just getting older

      Most definately the internet helped. At least in my case.

      And the best part: you can also find resources about shyness and what to do about it on the Internet.

      And about certain "other" personal traits as well ;-)

      as I realize this process happens to a lot of people who were extremely shy/self-conscious as teenagers

      And the same thing happens with that "other" personal trait too. Whereas in the olden days, some people waited until they were 50 to make that important announcement, today they feel quite comfortable about it in highschool.

      But there is no comparing the internet to TV, the TV is a passive medium, the internet is interactive.

      As TV is by nature a broadcast medium, it can only cater to the majority, and not to special interests.

      The only danger I see is when people start substituting the internet for real life.

      But the good thing is when they use it as a stepping stone into the real life, which they otherwise might not have. Not just by providing chat rooms, but also by providing lots of informational resources that show you how to change those traits that can be changed, and how to accept and stand up for those traits than cannot be changed.

    4. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      Man up, nancy-boy, the Internet is no place for a wimp!

      Who said that only wimps live in Nancy? Get over your fucking prejudices, you bigoted New-York boy you! ;-)

    5. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hihi, does the moderator know just how very informative this post actually is?

    6. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by indifferent+children · · Score: 1
      Hihi, does the moderator know just how very informative this post actually is?

      We need an 'Ironic' mod for when Anonymous Cowards question moderation. But I can't tell if it should be '+1 Ironic' or '-1 Ironic'. Maybe they should both be options.

      --
      Censorship is telling a man he can't have a steak just because a baby can't chew it. --Mark Twain
    7. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by ben+there... · · Score: 1

      I have social anxiety as well. It was pretty bad for a while after I lost my job. I became a hermit living off savings (lump sum 401k) for a while. Even going into convenience stores was hard. But I remained social on the internet, and aware of what was going on in the world, even if I didn't know about the new stores going up around town in rural VT, or a damn thing about local politics.

      Returning to the real world was much easier because while I didn't keep up with what was going on locally, I was still very aware of national news and events, and wasn't culturally behind where anyone else was, even if I didn't have as much of the local flavor. It's still weird knowing what I know about IT on a national level, then going in for consulting jobs and realizing that locally, it's a much different story, but that will always be the case now that I get most of my news and knowledge of IT from the web.

      Since I got my first computer in 2002 and really got into the web, I haven't so much cared what was going on locally. I don't even read/watch local news, even though in the past, I've written for a local newspaper. I even know more about other countries' events than what I know about my hometown. But it doesn't matter: I'd rather live in the world community and culture than my own boring local one anyway.

    8. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    9. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by JockTroll · · Score: 0

      the Internet is no place for a wimp!

      The internet is the place for wimps. That's because in the internet it's not possible to chase a loserboy down a corridor, grab him by his scrawny neck, bash his head against the well, punch him in the gullet, step on his pityfully small testicles, kick his teeth in and shit on his face.

      For the moment.

      --
      Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
    10. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congratulations for your brave coming-out. Looks like you were lucky to meet some, uhmmm, very well endowed top to give you an "introduction" ;-)

    11. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by OfficialReverendStev · · Score: 1

      Most of my "relationships" as a teenager and even a little later started online. There was no way I could ever approach a girl at my high school or anywhere else, for that matter. My self-esteem was so low that I didn't have to wait for the girl to say no; I did it for her. My only outlet was online, where you had a protective barrier between you and them. You got to let them see only what of you that you wanted and rejection wasn't so bad since you didn't then see them all the time afterward. In that environment I could approach girls and actually talk to them.

      Most of my online relationships turned into real physical ones. I dated one girl for about two years, another for 8 months and so on.

      My wife (whom I met online) and I have been married since December. We just bought our first house and both have successful jobs. I've socially adjusted and can make in-person friends much more easily now.

      As an ironic foot note, I work in a high school now. Suddenly I'm the guy the girls like to talk to.

      --
      A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything. - Neitzsche
    12. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by joshetc · · Score: 1

      The same case for me. Well, not quite as extreme. I had no problems communicating with people, just girls I was interested in. Once I got their screen names it was much easier to get past that nervous hump. Which, 5 years later, I don't even have anymore.

    13. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Same here, except I had problems communicating with boys I was interested in...

      However, one day, I got over my anxieties, walked into a bar, and got laid that same night ;-) The bad part is only that this happened after something like 10 beers, and I was so wasted that I don't remember the best parts...

    14. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Bob+Cat+-+NYMPHS · · Score: 1

      My bad. I did not mean to offend with my insults. ;)

      Wow, I got rated as troll. These /.ers do not understand comedy! Oh well, the 2600 meeting is tonight, I'll just go insult some nerds in person. Making them cry always cheers me up.

    15. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Wow, I got rated as troll.

      Hehe ;-)

      These /.ers do not understand comedy!

      Methinks, it's these jocks and breeders who do not understand comedy...

      Oh well, the 2600 meeting is tonight, I'll just go insult some nerds in person. Making them cry always cheers me up.

      Be careful, some of them might have their cute Rottweiler doggies with them. And these puppies enjoy the sweet taste of freshly ass-raped jock flesh ;-)

    16. Re:Internet forums helped me open up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's because in the internet it's not possible to chase a loserboy down a corridor, grab him by his scrawny neck, bash his head against the well, punch him in the gullet, step on his pityfully small testicles, kick his teeth in and shit on his face.

      For the moment.

      Hehe, looking forward to the AK47 plugin and the pipebomb extension. And then let the real phun begin!

  18. I think you mean "hindrance" by Ryano · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Internet is obviously still something of a "linguistic hinder".

  19. I live in an apartment complex. by gettingbraver · · Score: 5, Funny

    And I would rather be online than talk to some of my loser neighbors. And I know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

    1. Re:I live in an apartment complex. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi!

      As your neighbour I can fully agree with everything you said. In fact I think the same.

    2. Re:I live in an apartment complex. by kjart · · Score: 1

      And I would rather be online than talk to some of my loser neighbors

      This is your neighbor: I agree.

    3. Re:I live in an apartment complex. by gettingbraver · · Score: 2, Funny
      This is your neighbor:
      Mark this day down in history!! You're not on a porn site?
    4. Re:I live in an apartment complex. by kjart · · Score: 1

      You're not on a porn site?

      Dont be so hasty.....there is this thing called Tabbed Browsing and lets just say it took a long time to type that.

    5. Re:I live in an apartment complex. by gettingbraver · · Score: 1
      there is this thing called Tabbed Browsing

      Remember this past spring--you helped me carry a desk up 3 flights of stairs to my place, and started going on and on about your computer and software? I told you that IE was crap and to download Firefox. (You don't know how difficult it was for me to not laugh when you asked, "What the hell's that?")

      lets just say it took a long time to type that.

      Still wondering why I won't go out with you?

  20. Quote by jolterhead · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Marcus Tullius Cicero once said:
    A room without books is like a body without a soul
    I can't see why "books" can't be replaced by "internet access".
    1. Re:Quote by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

      Perhaps because the content available on the internet is different than in books in a few meaningful ways. Most non-web content is realtime or near realtime interpersonal communication (like VoIP, IRC or email). Most web content, including archives, only dates back to the mid-1990s at best. That's very different from books that journal history, the human condition, or creative fiction over many centuries.

      Or perhaps because as a medium, the internet is still too immature to displace a medium that has existed for several millennia. Give it a few centuries, then maybe the substitution will make sense.

      TV is still more ubiquitous than net access and I would not say, "A room without TV is like a body without a soul," either.

    2. Re:Quote by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, whatever. I read about history and archaeology all the time on Wikipedia and other sites. Heck, some of Wikipedia is copied directly out of the 1911 edition of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica. Project Gutenberg has many, many historical books online.

  21. socialization is based on commitment by mapkinase · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... and commitment is based on sacrifice of your time, which means half of the time communicating when your friend needs it. People immediately feel that you are communicating only when you feel like communicating, not when your friend needs to pour their positive or negative emotions. Internet is all about communicating only when you need to communicate.

    --
    I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
  22. Odd... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
    This is even more so for those who have more social support and are extroverted in nature.

    Weird. I'd think that the introverted (who would be too shy to go out into bars, but comfortable enough to participate in a chatroom) who would benefit most.

    What kind of social support would an extrovert gain from the Internet, he has already all he needs "in real life"?

    Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area.

    Well given that the Internet is global in nature, this is not really that surprising, especially when discussing about subjects which are not tied to a particular place (technical subjects, etc.).

    Of course, for dating, it's a different matter, that has to be pretty much local, unless you like to travel a lot...

  23. Hmm.. some more money wasted in useless research by AllanVanHulst · · Score: 1

    At the Radboud University of Nijmegen (The Netherlands) we have about the same number of first-year psychology students as in the COMPLETE science department. Still wondering why the doors to their buildin are always open .. ;)

  24. Social Networking by cgoody · · Score: 1

    The rise of social networking sites such as facebook and more notably myspace is nodoubt a large factor to this. These sites allow communication between people who would not normally notice each other. I use facebook to interact with people in classes the same as me so that when I miss a class I can find someone who wasn't as hung-over as me and get their notes.

  25. Re:Open doors and bad research? by rvw · · Score: 3, Interesting

    >> 1) the internet population has grown to include almost everyone.

    I would even dare to say it includes more than "everyone". For many people with disabilities it opened a complete new world. I know several people with severe anxieties who now have a social live because of internet fora, msn, social networks like Hyves, etc. In "normal", everyday live, you don't see these people (outdoors, at work, etc), and therefor many people don't know that they exist.

  26. Not true in MY case ... by mancunian_nick · · Score: 2, Interesting
    "A 1998 study showed that the Internet causes declines in social relationships and isolation, similarly to how television causes social disengagement and bad moods."

    Whilst I'm often 'accused' of living a solitary and isolated life, spending much of my time at home watching TV or chatting/surfing on the Internet or playing online games, I certainly don't feel that it has isolated me OR caused me to suffer from disengagement or bad moods. Quite the contrary infact. I've made many online 'friends' and when I was 'suffering' from mild depressive periods last year, it had nothing to do with with using the Internet and, infact, that combined with me taking up a voluntary position with a local timber recycling community project, helped me 'snap out of it.' Watching comedies on television makes me laugh and cheers me up; documentaries enlighten, educate and informs me; soaps are great entertainment and escapism (yeah I know many folk will disagree but that's me. :)) and so on.

    "... while the internet is heavily used for communication, it makes people lonelier."

    Certainly not in my case. Infact it helped a lot having people to interact/chat with and talking to people I would not, without the Internet, have 'met' or got to know.

    "However, a more recent study shows that now the internet has a positive effect on social and psychological well-being."

    Now THIS I agree with totally. It most certainly has.

    "Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area."

    I wonder how many people were 'surveyed' for these conclusions and results? I've been a frequent user of the Internet for many years, as I'm sure have many of 'you', and in the last year or two I've 'joined' the local resident's association, got involved in helping my local LDP (Liberal Democratic Party) councillors with mail drops in the local area as well as joining the local Community Guardian scheme. I love living in my local area which over recent years has become much more pleasant-a-place to live. Two or three years ago we had winos, prostitutes, drug users/sellers and so on frequenting the place and hassling the local people yet the police have done a wonderful job and now I wouldn't want to live anywhere else!

    Surely I'm not the only one, am I?!

  27. So, we will embrace the Matrix eventually... by afa · · Score: 1

    Since we no longer take care the local interest and actual environment of living, it is more and more likely and feasible that we finally spend quite considerable amount of $ to rent a virtual cell of the 'Power Plant' to enjoy as long as possible Matrix life...

  28. not a scientific study by petes_PoV · · Score: 4, Interesting
    So we have 2 studies, one shows one effect and the other shows the opposite.

    There's simply no basis for drawing conclusions here. while it's quite entertaining to talk about this, it would be a big mistake to actually think that either of these studies mean anything.

    I'm pretty sure that if you did a few more studies, you could get some that confirm and some that refute the idea that internet use leads to/cure social isolation.

    To quote a wise man:

    "The only possible conclusion the social sciences can draw is: some do, some don't."

    - Ernest Rutherford

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  29. well, duh, if the local area sucks by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The internet helps make it painfully obvious how much greener the grass might be on the other side by presenting the user(s) with comprehensive and detailed local info about practically anywhere. It makes wherever you currently are not seem as rosy... especially if where you currently are is someplace that would make a person WANT to be on the internet a lot.

    --
    stuff |
  30. Re:Open doors and bad research? by $RANDOMLUSER · · Score: 1

    Your point about the subjects of the 1998 study being a relatively small group of enthusiasts and the 2002 study including almost "everyone" is exactly right. Plus the fact that there were so many more places "to go" in 2002.

    It's kind of like comparing people's driving habits in 1915 and 1950. In 1915, only a small percentage of people had cars or drove, and most roads were local. But by 1950 most families had a car and at least one person in the family could drive, and roads were connecting neighboring towns. Now consider the increase in the number of roadside diners between the two dates.

    I don't think that even today's internet compares with (let's say) 1980s driving habits and road system, though. Today, it's still not "everyone" who's on the net, not by a long shot, and a lot of people who are on the net are the equivalent to 1950's "Sunday drivers": they can get where they want to go, but they're not natural or comfortable doing so.
    --
    No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism. - Winston Churchill
  31. Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... by httpamphibio.us · · Score: 1

    I think that a lot of "social interaction" over the internet is much more about quantity than quality. My girlfriend's dad's girlfriend's son (no, I'm not joking) is 12 years old and was bragging about how many MySpace friends he had after spent three entire days sitting in front of a computer while we were at a beach house on the Maine coast (and not swimming, surfing, kayaking, or spending any time enjoying the outdoors). He told me he had 350 friends... when I asked how many he knew in person he said "ten or twenty" but that he knew all 350 of them really well. This is a bit of an extreme example, but it's an important one, and one that I believe exists to varying degrees in most social interaction that happens on the net.

    When BBSs were alive I think the social interaction they provided was of a higher calibur... you had a relatively small group of people discussing a wide range of topics. The internet has flipped that, now you have an enormous group of people discussing extremely narrow topics. That's not really good for anyone.

    --
    sig.
    1. Re:Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's to define the social interaction "quality" ?

    2. Re:Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... by petes_PoV · · Score: 1
      He told me he had 350 friends...

      That's quite a good point: what does it mean to have a friend?

      from a child's point of view, it's just someone to hang with. The quality of the friendship (i.e. what do they share) online is fairly low.

      One thing about growing up is that the quality of friendship changes. So people you may have counted as friends as a child are now merely neighbours, or colleagues, or co-irkers.

      The study needs to be able to take this into account if it's to be relevant. It also needs to have an objective measurement of the attributes it is claiming.

      When we get to the point that these things can be measured, we're halfway towards getting some proper research done.

      --
      politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    3. Re:Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... by Gonarat · · Score: 1

      My girlfriend's dad's girlfriend's son (no, I'm not joking) is 12 years old and was bragging about how many MySpace friends he had after spent three entire days sitting in front of a computer while we were at a beach house on the Maine coast (and not swimming, surfing, kayaking, or spending any time enjoying the outdoors).


      Perhaps I am wandering away from the main point you were trying to make, but you also brought up something else that I thought was interesting. When I was a kid (I'm 43) and went on vacation, I had no contact with with my friends back home, so I had no excuse to stay indoors. Now that the Internet is available almost everywhere, it is too easy to not break the connection. Too bad his Mom did not limit/ban computer time while they were on vacation -- cyberspace is great, but he missed so much by not taking advantage and enjoying the Maine coast while he was there. Part of the fun of these kinds of trips when I was growing up was making new friends (even if it was just for the week or so that we were on vacation) and getting out and seeing something new and different. I'd hate to come back from Maine and not remember much about it because I didn't go out and enjoy the trip.


      --
      Beware of Sleestak
    4. Re:Quality vs. Quantity not examined here... by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

      after spent three entire days sitting in front of a computer while we were at a beach house on the Maine coast (and not swimming, surfing, kayaking, or spending any time enjoying the outdoors).

      Point taken. But having spent many childhood summers living in a Maine cottage so close to the Atlantic that high tide storms sprayed ocean water on our living room window, I must ask: Did *you* try swimming or surfing in that water?

      It's beyond frigid and not altogether safe without a drysuit. As a child I could wade in and out of it for hours on end, but I only dove in once--the first week of the first summer--and got such a screaming "ice cream" headache that I almost passed out. My folks wouldn't even wade in up to their ankles.

      Anyway, to your point I agree that it's very, very unfortunate that the boy didn't take advantage of the wonderful place he was visiting. When I lived there we didn't have a computer, or even a TV, and I'm a better person for it. I sketched scenery & maritime scenes, read hundreds of books, spent countless hours exploring rocky shores and playing at the beach, picked blueberries, visited landmarks and--more pointedly--made many actual friends with other local kids. Memories of that part of my life come back with vivid clarity nearly three decades later.

      When BBSs were alive I think the social interaction they provided was of a higher calibur...

      Now this sounds like an old geezer cliche akin to, "I remember walking up hill in both directs to get to school." ;^)

      My guess is that things are what you make them, and if you make a point of using some site or whatever to facilitate quality social interactions, then that's what you'll have. OTOH, if your goal is just to grow a buddy list and get on as many other's buddy lists as possible, that that's what will happen.

  32. bash.org quote #4279 by tttonyyy · · Score: 1

    BombScare: i beat the internet
    BombScare: the end guy is hard


    The poor internet - it's so misunderstood socially. :)

    --
    biopowered.co.uk - catalytically cracking triglycerides for home automotive use since 2008. Just say no to big oil!
  33. No negative effect.. by Frozen+Void · · Score: 1

    Internet is negative influence if you sit online for hours.However its not much more "negative" then staring at television.
    Living as heavy internet user will change you socially.The thing is impact is very different for different personalities(social people don't suffer much,when nerds get more withdrawn).
    Limiting your computer time will solve it(e.g. shedule to dedicate only 2hours and then turn it off.Don't leave it just "in case").

  34. Introversion isn't shyness by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

    I for instance am naturally introverted in nature, but I'm quite able to go to bars and the like without feelings of anxiety and I'm not shy. I however don't particularly value the type of conversation with the type of people you meet in bars. Chit chat bores me silly. People and their inanities can be very tiresome.

    --
    Deleted
    1. Re:Introversion isn't shyness by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 1
      Introversion isn't shyness

      I know. However, they often (but obviously not always...) come together.

      I however don't particularly value the type of conversation with the type of people you meet in bars. Chit chat bores me silly.

      Well, it's supposed to be a door-opener to further discussion (about more interesting subjects) or "activities" (let's not go into details here...). A way of "protocol negotiation" to find out where the heck common interests may lie (of course if there aren't any common interests than it kinda stays boring...)

    2. Re:Introversion isn't shyness by carpeweb · · Score: 1

      it's supposed to be a door-opener to further discussion

      I thought it was supposed to be an attempt to get laid.

    3. Re:Introversion isn't shyness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I thought it was supposed to be an attempt to get laid.

      That was what he meant by "activities" ;-)

  35. Local Internet? It's possible by yelvington · · Score: 1

    > Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a
      > decline in local knowledge and interest in living in
      > the local area."

    I don't think it's inherent in the technology. There's a dearth of local Internet resources. I have to give local media a D- overall when it comes to using the Internet effectively.

    You can participate in a conversation about nearly anything on the net ... except what's happening in your own town, your own neighborhood, your own school district.

    It's not that nobody wants to talk about these things. It's a general failure of leadership by people who are supposed to be community leaders.

    Of the more than 1,400 daily newspapers in the United States, a majority don't even have a forum on their website. TV stations are even worse.

    When they do have online discussions, the general pattern is to set up the technology and let a few jackasses drive reasonable people away. Running an effective local forum is very possible, but it requires leadership and moderation.

    The situation is improving on two fronts. Independent local websites like iBrattleboro and Baristanet are popping up as entrepreneurs take advantage of the low barrier to entry provided by blogging technology. (They generally underestimate the promotion and marketing challenge, though.) And a small number of local media sites are doing extraordinary work facilitating community conversations and social networking. (I have helped create some of them. I won't link, since they're intended to be local.)

    I expect the numbers of such projects to grow exponentially over the next three or four years.

  36. Re: Other Neighbors by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    It's not just apartments. Willow Corners, Nebraska was no fun either. Ask Sibyl.

    Relatively few places are "exciting and happening". Someone needs to map the quality of the local relationship potential. Many of us are aspirants to the future, and the local topics of conversation include Mrs. Greenberg's *splendid* herb garden, and someone painting the general store.

    If it were possible to instantly transplant fifty Dotters into the same town, we'd all do just fine, and have lovely social groups to please the researchers.

    "IPO? Is that something about the Post Office?"

    --TaoPhoenix

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  37. Social Hinder? Is this New English? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm wrapping my head with duct tape right now!

  38. Impact of social networking sites by tontammer · · Score: 1

    Social networking sites have a large role to play in making people less lonelier..Sites like Orkut, Myspace, Grupus, etc.. there are just so many of them, in different varieties and flavours, nowadays you end up interacting with a lot of people even from the confines of your home, even by just sitting in front of the box.

    --
    the world is spherical
  39. "Social Hinder"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hinder is a fucking VERB. Jesus H Corbett, you Americans fuck up the language more and more each day. Go to fucking school.

    1. Re:"Social Hinder"? by kniLnamiJ-neB · · Score: 1

      I know I'm not supposed to feed the trolls, but how would a fucking school teach me to speak English better?

      --
      Windows isn't the answer... it's the question. NO is the answer!
  40. Not necessarily by jandersen · · Score: 1

    I think this sort of 'research' is done with little insight into what they are researching. IMO what they have found may simply show that sitting in front of a computer/TV or such is something that appeals strongly to people with little interest in their local community - the typical 'nerd type'?

    or maybe they interpret their results wrongly; I would say that using the internet is likely to widen your horizon. This will of course mean that on one hand you get to know about things that are far away geographically and culturally; on the other hand this will mean that you perspective is less narrowly focused on your local community. To me that seems like a good thing.

    1. Re:Not necessarily by Big_Al_B · · Score: 1

      I think this sort of 'research' is done with little insight into what they are researching.

      I think this sort of comment is made with little insight into what is being discussed. This sort of "intuitive" interpretation of the value of data collection and analysis is, if anything, a hinder_ence_ to finding the truth.

      IMO what they have found may simply show that...

      Give me empirical or logical, or even anecdotal evidence to support your opinion. Otherwise it's not worth bits on the wire.

      or maybe they interpret their results wrongly; I would say that using the internet is likely to widen your horizon

      Again, this appears to be an example of intuitive thinking that has little to no value--and can be damaging--*unless* it is supported by facts at hand. If you are unable or unwilling to provide supporting evidence, no one should give your speculation any credence.

  41. so... by NRISecretAgent · · Score: 1

    Am I to understand that wanting to leave where you are is a bad thing? I thought exploring, seeing new things and visiting new place... particularly places that are vastly different from what you are used to is a good thing. I know a lot of people who would just LOVE to go someplace else. How many people would love to live in Sydney? Everybody wants everybody else to stay but they don't want to have their own feet strapped to the floor. You notice this a lot lately (atleast in Mass) with the campaign ads, "So-and-So wants to help keep our young adults in our state"...

    So basically the whole problem here is that the internet lets us meet and talk to multiple people in a short time span and fills our head with strange ideas from other places that have absolutely no relevence or use in our lives... nice to know these articles are written by people so in touch =).

    1. Re:so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The internet has helped my social life. I use it to plan my free nights. Its as simple as checking a few web pages to see what's going on, then calling my friends. In theory, I could use a free City Paper to do the same thing, but its easier to keep track of my computer. In fifteen minutes, I can have my night figured out.

      When I finished college, I decided I was tired of renting crappy rowhouses with four other people from landlords who wouldn't let us paint the walls. I don't miss the cheap-o kitchens or the moving day craigslist furniture liquidations either. My parents were kind enough to let me move out into the sticks with them and save up some money for a down payment on a house. Moving from a tremendously convienent urban environment with an active social life to the country where the grocery store was fifteen minute's drive away was crushing. I was never content with it. But I stayed motivated and met people on myspace who were doing the same thing and we helped each other cope.

      That said, Myspace is pretty much over with for me. I don't see too many interesting people on it anymore. Most of my friends use it to keep in touch with people they know, since its a pretty good way to swap pictures, videos, and leave messages. Many of their profiles are now set to private. The social network is firmly in place and I think it will evolve into more of a way to keep in touch with those you know than to meet new people.

  42. It's a tab bit different for me by jrmiller84 · · Score: 1

    When I discovered the internet about ten years ago (when I was like... 11) everyone thought the internet was this huge monster. My parents did, parents friends, friends parents, etcetera. And to be quite honest they had every right to think that. That seemed to be the general thought about the internet, everyone was out to get everone else. My parents always worried about who I was talking to on the internet and at that age they should have, although they were never overbearing with it. I will say that while it may have made me "antisocial" in the sense that I didn't want to go out and "play ball" with my friends, I made stronger friendships elsewhere with people who could relate with me. By that I mean online AS WELL AS in real life. Meeting people who had the same interest in the internet would immediately bond us. In a sense it made me lose friends who didn't share the same interests but I gained other ones whose friendships have transcended the years.

    --
    I will forever be a student.
  43. Re:Open doors and bad research? by chadliness · · Score: 1

    I would challenge the idea that the internet includes almost everyone. Maybe if "almost everyone" includes only people under 60. I spend a lot of time going to nursing homes and none of them are using the internet. They sit in their rooms waiting on someone to visit (perhaps the lack of local interest is taking a toll?) And a lot of people who are aware of the internet and use it are only using it for e-mail and to check the weather, not exactly part of the community.

  44. re: maturity comes into play too.... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    I think for a pre-teen or teenager, concepts like "popularity" reign supreme. So having the ability to talk about oneself in some kind of public forum (EG. friendster or myspace), and then having a "hit counter" recording all the people you're vaguely "connected with" is really attractive to them.

    There was a similar "dating/friendship" site somebody referred me to in a URL a while back, and it seemed to take this to even more of an extreme. Basically, people would view your photos or bio and click to indicate they had a "crush" on you. Within 30 seconds of making a new account there, and without even posting any info about myself at all, I had 2 "crushes" sent by people generically posting comments like "Share the love!" along with them. Teens were all over the site, pretty much begging for and competing for who could get the most "crushes" on their accounts. (Silly, really, because the original concept of the site was pretty much ruined that way. The intention was, if 2 people actually happened to send each other a "crush", that indicated enough mutual interest that the site would then let them send each other private emails.)

    But eventually, I think people grow out of all that and learn the value of a real friendship, vs. a popularity contest. So it's not really an issue.

  45. The argument for porn by Plutonite · · Score: 1

    a more recent study shows that now the internet has a positive effect on social and psychological well-being.

    Of course. Jerking-off to porn then going to slashdot to talk about the effects of the internet feels really good, and will benefite you socially and psychologically. I mean, what are you talking about? Of course the internet makes you happier. Plus, pr0nstars can't dump you. And there's so many to choose from. If you did the real thing you would either have to get the girls drunk or engage in a serious relationship.

    Besides, with the internet you get to interact with hundreds of people a day. You can see each other in videos, have prolonged academic dialogues, send each other links to other people... that is positively better than a club.

    Finally, the internet has never been a "hinder" to social life. It has always been a catastophe. But that doesn't mean it hurts your well-being! Just remember cybersex and porn. Porn is your friend.

    P.S: I don't use pornography for entertainment. I was kidding.

    1. Re:The argument for porn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you send a pr0n link to a friend and you both look at it at the same time, is that a threesome?

  46. Re: Other Neighbors by LindseyJ · · Score: 1
    Someone needs to map the quality of the local relationship potential.

    That sentance makes me very, very afraid.
  47. Agreed by petrus4 · · Score: 1

    Interestingly, frequent Internet use is associated with a decline in local knowledge and interest in living in the local area.

    I myself am a good example of this. I live in Australia, and was socially very largely lost until I first began using the Internet in 1994. Since then, I made contact with a number of people from several different countries, and found a far greater degree of acceptance than I had ever received for the most part offline in Australia. If it had not been for meeting my present girlfriend in Melbourne in late 2001, I probably would have at least tried to leave the country by now, although was unsure as to where else to go.

    I will admit that I have tended to consider most of my countrymen (at least those that I have known) to be provincial, narrow minded, excessively jocular morons, who also have a tendency to grossly overestimate the country's level of international relevance. To add to the rest of the world's reasons to hold Australia in contempt, the current Howard government is utterly shameless in its' fawning solidarity with the rogue American Bush administration, and because of this, we now have the notorious distinction of being one of the few countries left on the planet whose government is sufficiently facistic to be willing to adopt that stance. In most other countries, not only have the public been vehement in expressing their opposition to the evil of Bush, but their governments have also more commonly listened to their constituents' will.

    I live online more or less entirely, and view Australia as merely being the place where my physical body sleeps.

  48. Re:Open doors and bad research? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the two arguments in the article why nowadays the internet is not the social hinder any more are obvious. These arguments are : 0) the internet has got more different ways of communication; 1) the internet population has grown to include almost everyone.

    Maybe you have spent too much time in the digital reality? Because AFAIK people haven't started counting in the binary system. ;)

  49. my input: by Burlap · · Score: 2, Informative

    not like this will be seen on page two... but what the hell.

    I can say with 100% certinty that the net has GREATLY help my social life. I suffer from a rather permanent and disruptive physicological condition (that i wont go into details here) that was crippling my social interactions with the greater public. Through the net I was able to find, talk to and get support from others with the same condition. Suddenly I wasnt as alone, I found out how to seek treatment and now I am a FAR happier, more social, person.

    Without the net i would still be wollowing alone in my room insted of enjoying life.

  50. but of course by Sasha+bee · · Score: 1

    Whose social life hasn't been improved with the internet? Especially with the younger generations still in school or college, using social networking sites like MySpace and Facebook is a must. It's how you meet more people! Obviously, years ago this wasn't true. When I was in elementary/middle school, I only had a handful of friends online who I actually knew from school. Today, my little cousins are constantly iming/myspacing/etc their schoolmates. The internet definitely expanded my social circle in recent years and has made it easier to keep in touch with old friends. Without the internet there is no way I would be this social.

  51. Paying attention to "studies" makes you stupid. by fkx · · Score: 1

    That's the real lesson here.

  52. Re:Hinder is so a noun by halovaa · · Score: 1

    But not the one the poster thinks it is From dictionary.com: Hinder: 2. Chiefly Northern and North Midland U.S.. the buttocks. [Origin: 12501300; ME; cf. OE hinder (adv.) behind; c. G hinter (prep.) behind] Insert various Porn, WoW, Myspace, jokes here ->

  53. television? by bryan_is_a_kfo · · Score: 1

    ...to how television causes social disengagement and bad moods.

    does anyone have more info on how television causes social disengagement and bad moods? Are there conclusive studies of this? I'd be interested in reading about that, but TFA doesn't touch that issue. I kind of like how this statement was thrown out there in the story like it's some universal truth that everyone holds to be obvious.

    1. Re:television? by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 1
      does anyone have more info on how television causes social disengagement and bad moods? Are there conclusive studies of this? I'd be interested in reading about that, but TFA doesn't touch that issue. I kind of like how this statement was thrown out there in the story like it's some universal truth that everyone holds to be obvious.

      here's one page

      And here's an essay with some good references.

      For my part, when I stopped watching television I was very surprised at just how little time I had in my day for all the activities I was involved with. I can't believe I used to pour hours into gazing at a cathode ray tube! I wish I had those thousands of hours back.

      These days, I find myself much healthier and much happier than ever before. When I look at my old friends who are still plugged in, I am stunned at just how dark and sickly and unhappy they appear. I didn't see it before, when I was also a user. The connection between ill-health and dulled senses to television use seems so incredibly obvious now. I find it amazing and horrifying that I used to fit into that mind-space.


      -FL

    2. Re:television? by bryan_is_a_kfo · · Score: 1

      Couldn't agree more, one day I stopped watching TV and my live improved 10 fold. I'd like to read some science that attempts to explain why.

  54. Heh. You needed the Internet for that? by Moraelin · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Then again, staring at this box has taught me one extremely valuable lesson - people will say anything, even if it is meaningless, in order to get a first post (and the inevitable mod points following it).


    Heh. You needed the Internet to learn that? No offense, but I'd have thought that anyone who's ever went to (high) school, had any work that doesn't only involve telecommuting, or, really, went out of the house at all, had witnessed the RL-equivalent of karma-whoring. People want to be perceived as part of the group, well liked, cool, fashionable, etc, and will go to insane (and often bloody stupid) extremes to achieve that.

    It even has an impact on polls and statistics, as you have to skew your poll to account for the facts that:

    - if it seems that the interviewer wants a particular answer, they'll give that answer, just to be liked. So if you actually want a fair result, you have to go to great lengths to make sure that the question sounds as neutral as it the English language allows. (Or, conversely, if you want to skew the statistics to your ends, you just need to give people a strong indication that only a monster would pick the other choices.)

    - all else being equal, people tend to answer "yes" more than they answer "no". (Presumably because being too negative is perceived as something bad or non-social.) So you have to actually have randomized tests, where the same question is asked in one way on some forms (e.g., "are you for continuing the war in Iraq?") and as the opposite on others (e.g., "are you for stopping the war in Iraq?")

    - as anthropologists showed, even when you accounted for the above two, if you ask people anything about themselves, the result will be basically a lie. Well, not as in a deliberate, conscious-level lie, but more like distorted through the need to perceive themselves as doing the right and, most importantly, the socially-acceptable thing. _Very_ few will give you an answer that, according to the current social standards, would ammount to a "yes, I'm an asshole" confession, even if the poll is completely anonymous and confidential.

    Or you can see that at smaller levels, and sometimes even at petty levels, from high school to your everyday work. People ostracize person X, just because they want to fit in a group where the popular ones are against person X. People pretend to be stupid in school, just because in nowadays' broken culture it's _cool_ to be stupid and ignorant, and is waay uncool to show any academic effort or ability. (And god forbid showing _interest_.) Etc.

    The most perverse form of that is "groupthink". Take a dozen people which, each of them separately, are against doing X. Put them in a group where they each think that the rest of the group is _for_ X. Watch them all vote/chest-thump/shout-slogans/whatever for X, just to please the rest of the group, and take a decision as a group that neither of them actually really wanted. It's more common than you'd think, and affects a wide range of groups, from small cliques at work to government commissions to whole countries.

    Etc, etc, etc.

    So let's just say that Slashdot's karma-whoring is actually just representative of society as a whole. In fact, compared to some RL counterparts, let me assure you that the worst /. karma-whores would come out looking as the milder version.
    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:Heh. You needed the Internet for that? by crabpeople · · Score: 1

      "People pretend to be stupid in school, just because in nowadays' broken culture it's _cool_ to be stupid and ignorant, and is waay uncool to show any academic effort or ability"

      Says you! I always pretended to be stupid in school to throw off suspicion and catch people off guard. Not to mention people dont ask you as many annoying questions if they think you are dumb. Infact I do this in real life as well. The coolness is just an aftereffect.

      I'm basically exactly like keyser soze.

      --
      I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
    2. Re:Heh. You needed the Internet for that? by Crysalim · · Score: 1

      This is a marvelous description of modern life, indeed - but you can simply bypass all of that ridiculousness by making friends with people similar to yourself. The internet can help you do this, if you let it.

      By the way, the first post comment is twinkled with a bit of sarcasm (I don't know the tag for it, I'm not that internet saavy)

  55. Maybe not but.... by DataCannibal · · Score: 1

    ... it has really fucked up spelling and grammar, or did someone slip in "hinder" as a noun when I wasn't looking?

    I know Americans have a habit of verbing nouns but is nouning verbs now de rigeur?

    --
    No but, yeah but, no but...
  56. It's an old joke by now by aevans · · Score: 1

    but sorry, myspace friends don't count. The difference is, there are just more losers these days.

  57. Call me crazy, but... by Moofie · · Score: 1

    Maybe, just maybe, the composition of Internet users has changed since 1998 to include a broader demographic spectrum which will, by definition, follow societal norms more closely.

    Where's my grant money?

    --
    Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
  58. That's another thing I've wondered about by Moraelin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That's one thing I don't really get: the mentality some people have that the only way to make online friends, or to succeed in a MMO, or whatever, is dependent on pretending to be a horny female teenager.

    Somehow it doesn't even add up. The most popular people I've met on MUDs and MMOs for example, were playing male characters, and were the people with a memorable personality one way or another. They might have been the guy who played for ever and knows every single secret lever, or the guy who was the most involved in the community, or the most helpful newbie-helper, or the most (nauseatingly) consistent full-time role-player, or in one case simply the biggest asshole on the MUD. (But always very careful to not break any rules, so the admins never could quite justify outright banning him, even if they were _very_ irritated by him too.) You'd be surprised at the number of fans one can have by simply being the biggest asshole and full-time ganker on the server.

    But the opposite works just as well, and in fact much better when you're low level and in no position to be an asshole. You'd be surprised how many people will remember you just because you were nice, helpful, and able to function in a group. Heck, even just being the polite newbie who knows how to ask politely and doesn't try to sound like an "I have 7 level 60 characters, you noob, I just forgot where Stormwind is" clown, you'd be surprised how it does get enough people trying to help. Some of us actually _like_ babysitting a polite newbie. Remember to say "thanks" at the end, and you may well be on the way to making a friend.

    If anyone finds it necessary to play the "I'm a cute, lonely 13 year old girl" card to get any "friends" or any online help, then I'd advise them to take a good look critical look at their own personality and approach to human relationships, because that's where the real problem lies.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
    1. Re:That's another thing I've wondered about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's one thing I don't really get: the mentality some people have that the only way to make online friends, or to succeed in a MMO, or whatever, is dependent on pretending to be a horny female teenager.
      [long, empassioned tirade elided]
      You are taking this far too seriously. Do yourself a favor and get a life. A real life, with real friends. Not "online friends". If who does what on an online game matters to you this much, you have a real problem.
    2. Re:That's another thing I've wondered about by Moraelin · · Score: 1

      Well, that's just the thing. The kind of fucktards who _need_ to pretend they're a horny teenage female to cover for their social ineptitude, are too socially inept to function in RL society too. The kind of idiot who can't ask anything nicely in a MMO, I just can't see him/her being the polite and considerate kind IRL either. The kind who just has to come out as knowing everything better than you do, again, you can see the same specimens IRL every day. And the kind who's an ivory-tower "everyone except me is an idiot" kind of loser, trust me, they're not like that only online. You can find them IRL too building convoluted theories about why everyone else avoids their nasty presence.

      And ironically enough, this sad kind of loser is the first who'll throw around stuff like "Do yourself a favor and get a life. A real life, with real friends. Not "online friends"." It's exactly this kind of loser who thinks that throwing around enough insults can mask their own inadequacies. Ironic, because if they were capable of functioning in society IRL, they wouldn't find themselves ostracized online either.

      So, yes, by all means, take your own advice: "Do yourself a favor and get a life. A real life, with real friends. Not "online friends"." Aptly put, really. Do that. Then you might get just enough social skill to be accepted in a group, online or offline, without having to pretend you're a horny female teen.

      Then you might actually be able to have _friends_, online or offline, as you may choose. Not just horny men willing to overlook your obvious social ineptitude and crap personality, but real friends. There's a massive difference between the two. But I don't expect that you've found it yet.

      --
      A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  59. Same here. by antdude · · Score: 1

    Except I have speech and hearing impediments due to my disabilities. BBS and Internet opened up a new world for communications.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  60. Relevant in 2006? by DocJohn · · Score: 1

    2002, eh? So this really isn't "news" in 2006, is it? I mean, it's been four years since the publication of that study, and a lot of analysis has been done since then about it and the previous results. The HomeNet study has already had enough holes drilled into it that I doubt many researchers give any validity to the idea that the Internet is socially isolating any longer.

    Offhandedly suggesting things like "social networking" (which barely existed in 2002 as a unique phenomenon) could have contributed to the change in perceptions isn't very "tasty" or "research." It could have just as well been the increase in users (no, sorry, not "everybody" has access to the Internet still), or some other unknown variable not yet studied. With just a few hundred people enrolled in both studies from one lone geographic location in the U.S., I'd hardly feel comfortable making robust generalizations about all U.S. Internet users.

    The second citation is actually dated 2001 in the PDF linked, and talks about the timeframe for that data collection -- 1998-1999. Hardly a time where there was any social networking going on, or where "everyone" was on the Internet.

  61. Sometimes the grass IS greener... by Moraelin · · Score: 1

    ... because different people have different definitions of "green".

    Seriously, there is nothing that's "one size fits all", and that goes for places, events, other people, clothing, food, etc.

    - Some people actually like the rural/suburb communities, with their cliques, gossip, and all good and bad parts. Some of us are introverts and not interested in neighbourhood gossip/influence/power games at all, and thus may feel actually better in a large town where you're an anonymous nobody in a crowd.

    - Some people are perfectly happy in a group/suburb/whatever, where the only choice of conversation is the last football game or the weather. Dunno, maybe they actually like football or don't mind faking it. Some of us prefer other topics. I for one, you know what I like? History. So me, I'd rather look for a place or people where I can talk about that, or failing that, physics, computers or cats.

    - Some people are ok with having just one grocery store in their area, with a narrow but cheap selection. (E.g., IIRC here in Germany some 80% of people buy their stuff at Aldi. Which is just that: the cheapest stuff money can buy, but practically zero choice.) On the other hand, my brother had to take along a camera and produce ample evidence that the new town, in which he wanted to move and take a job, had lots and lots of shops of all kinds, to convince his wife to move.

    - on one vacation abroad, the hotel also organized some sort of outdoors disco right under my freakin' windows. A lot of people actually seemed to enjoy it, and just went and danced there. Me, I hated it with a passion, and I would have rather just freakin' slept at night.

    Etc. Two different people can (and usually do) have very different ideas of what's "green" for them. Person A might hate place/item/person/whatever X and love Y, while person B loves X and hates Y. Go figure.

    It's not just ignoring the bad parts. It's that even when you do know the bad parts, different people give them different priorities. What for you is "awful", for someone else may just be "a mild annoyance", and for someone else it might even count as "nice". See the hotel example again: other people's "cool, we can go dance there" ranked up with root canal for me.

    Global travel and information just considerally enlarged the pool of choices. Now each can find a different place or person or whatever, which for them _is_ better. Even after taking the bad parts into account.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  62. Re: Other Neighbors by gettingbraver · · Score: 1

    You're not the only one!