Next-Gen's Top 20 From Tokyo

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Posted by ryuzaki0 on Tuesday September 26, 2006 @02:17AM from the weighty-games-take-tokyo dept.

Next Generation has a rundown on the 20 games they think defined TGS 2006. Leading the pack is Microsoft's double-barrel RPG action, Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon, their current great white hope for the Japanese market. From the article: "The weight of the bigger names involved -- artists Takehiko Inoue and Akira Toriyama, and writer Kiyoshi Shigematsu -- might even draw in completely uninitiated gamers. Blue Dragon, coming this year, as a pack-in with the console, will help make the machine a more familiar sight in homes that purchase PlayStation 2s for Dragon Quest; Lost Odyssey, coming next year, looks like something that could be advertised in cinemas." White Knight Story clocks in at number 3, and everyone from Ars Technica to Tycho is praising this Level 5 game as being the first PS3 title they're really getting excited about.

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One Thing I hate about Console battles by Nazmun · 2006-09-26 02:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

My precious japanese rpg's (the major ones) which were usually concentrated on one system per generation (SNES, PSX, PS2) seems to be divided into two and maybe three consoles this time around. Microsoft bought out Hironobu's or payed them a truckload of cash to be 360 exclusives and sony also has talented studio's (level 5, square enix also have at least some talent left) in their wing.

I miss the time I could go on with only one console. Unless the 360 folds and Blue Dragon/Lost Odyssey either suck or come out of the ps3 I can't seem myself without it.

--
Hmmm... Pie...
1. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Rydia · 2006-09-26 02:30 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Expect it to get worse: I recall Enix saying that if Rocket Slime and DQ Swords sell well, Dragon Quest IX is likely to be for Wii.
  
  Thankfully, I actually don't care about Final Fantasy (or most of these new shiny-shiny RPGs) anymore, so I should be all right.
2. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by _xeno_ · 2006-09-26 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  I wouldn't worry. Or worry that much. Either the PS3 or the XBox 360 will succeed in Japan (and Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey probably makes it the XBox 360), and all the RPGs from the losing console will be ported over to the winning console in order to make sales.
  
  You'll probably need to get a Wii to play RPGs released for it, though, since the Wii controller can't be replicated (no matter how much Sony tries) on the other consoles, so expect Wii games to be fairly unique to the Wii.
  
  In the end, they'll all come out for the one dominant console. It may take a couple of years, but it'll happen. One console will win the RPG crowd. And the RPGs will be ported over to it since that's where the market is.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
3. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by SoapDish · 2006-09-26 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  You have no idea how stongly I wish for that to happen! I've always been a big fan of Enix on Nintendo systems. My first console game was Dragon Warrior on the NES
4. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by IntergalacticWalrus · 2006-09-26 03:24 · Score: 1
  
  Microsoft bought out Hironobu's or payed them a truckload of cash
  
  No, they gave him fat sacks full of money, so he can use it to make himself some money hats.
5. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by steveo777 · 2006-09-26 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  Well, lets consider the downward turn Square's FF franchise has taken from moving to Sony platforms. They certainly haven't gotten any better. Then again, I'm more concerned with how bad the storys have become and gameplay has gotten out of hand, epescially lately....
  I just wish I had a chance (and time enough) to play DW VII.
  
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6. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by KDR_11k · 2006-09-26 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  Don't you mean a tubeload of cash?
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
7. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Jerf · 2006-09-26 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  At first I thought the FFXIII combat system might be a neat idea.
  
  However, lately I've been playing Star Ocean: 'Till the End of Time and it has the same basic system, you control one character and the other two just go off and do their thing in a live-action combat system. And I'm not particularly enjoying it. Granted, Star Ocean really fucked up in having an incentive to keep your character out of the line of fire so that that damnably fragile "Bonus Battle Guage" doesn't get broken, thus encouraging the player to play a support character that just hangs out and sometimes heals people while the computer lays the smack down. But then, I wouldn't be surprised FFXIII ends up the same way, because predicting which support will become necessary when is certainly something the human will be better at.
  
  So far, I still prefer the "Active Time System" of FFX or Grandia II by a mile. I'd also accept the FFX-2 combat system, at least in terms of timing. But don't get so stuck up the ass with the "real-time" buzzword that you sacrifice control over the team to its alter.
8. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by ArwynH · 2006-09-26 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  You're probably right about the porting, but I wouldn't bet on the 360 winning the race. Maybe if those games had been released 6 months ago it might of had a chance, but as things stand now, both Sony and Nintendo have highly anticipated launches coming up. That's a lot of momentum and with the 360's sales dead in the water here, I doubt It'll beat the PS3 in Japan. NA and Europe on the other hand are another matter.
  
  I'm more interested in how the wildcard, Nintendo's Wii, will fare here myself. It's small, cute and looks fun. Also remember that most people will get thier info from the ads on TV, which for the most part will be in SD, so no cool HD graphics there. Only smiling kids making obsene gestures with the wii-mote.
  
  You never know, if things work as Nintendo hopes, all those RPGs might be finding thier way to the Wii in the near future.
9. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by oc255 · 2006-09-26 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  Excellent commentary.
10. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by SoapDish · 2006-09-26 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  DW VII was really good. Unfortunately I didn't quite finish it before it was ripped out of my hands. I think I racked up about 60 hours of game play on it.
  
  I highly recommend trying out DW IV, it's incredible. DW II was really good too, from what I can remember. DW III had a pyramid that really pissed me off as a kid - if only there was gamefaqs back then.
  
  Hopefully I'll be able to get these on Virtual Console.
11. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by LordVader717 · 2006-09-26 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  It's always (and I mean always) the most successful system that gets the RPG's, as seams to be the case with most japanese games. The only reason the 360 has anything is because they are projects paid for by Microsoft. The 360 is dead in Japan, nothing can save it. So unless Microsoft insists on pushing a dead horse, there probably won't be much interest.
12. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 05:19 · Score: 0
  
  You're a complete fucking idiot, but you know that, right?
  
  Name an RPG that's been ported over to another console that wasn't a re-release YEARS after the original. Go on. Name one.
  
  RPGs - the real ones, not ones like Final Fantasy - are niche games. They're targetted at one console and never ported. Actually, even Final Fantasy follows that rule. The only ports have been rereleases far after the original release.
  
  You may be willing to wait 10 years for an RPG to come out on a console you own, but I (and I'd bet the OP, too) would much rather not.
  
  RPGs don't get ported to other consoles. The only games that do are the big "blockbuster" style games, and most of those suck anyway.
13. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by steveo777 · 2006-09-26 05:57 · Score: 1
  
  But don't get so stuck up the ass with the "real-time" buzzword that you sacrifice control over the team to its alter.
  
  I'm not sure if that's a stab at me or at PA or me for agreeing with them... I just want to clarify that I've played the demo of FFXII and I really didn't like it. It's been a while, but I didn't like switching between charecters, selecting an action or two, unpausing the action, waiting for the chareter to actually do something, then starting the process again. It was tedious in the first battle. And if I wanted to que actions and do individualy assigned actions, I'd play Neverwinter or Baldur's Gate. I don't like the way the chars you weren't controlling just did their own thing. Even if you could assign them a script or something. If it was battle or creature specific task lists, I'd like it more, but it isn't as far as I know.
  It would be great if an NPC could have massive sets of if-thens. Like if you're fighting a ballon or grenade, only hit it HARD. Always use elementals against elementals. Boss fights are almost always, Haste - Wall (not reflect) - Regen - attack...
  I agree that X's timing system has proably been my favorite, though I always liked VI and VII's approaches where you only know when your charecters' turns are coming, and having to guess or time your enemies' turns. It just felt a bit more challenging. If VII's system could tell you how long it would take to actually perform your action after you select it, then that would be the only improvement on that system that I can think of right now.
  
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  This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
14. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Jerf · 2006-09-26 06:27 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure if that's a stab at me or at PA or me for agreeing with them...
  Uh, it's neither. It's total agreement with you. RPGs have gotten eaten by the "real time" buzzword, even though the idea really stinks. You just can't control multiple people in realtime. Don't try. If you want to do that, your "party" needs to be just the one character. That has been done successfully.
  
  Same thing happened to strategy games. Try to find a turn-based strategy game. (I know of Civ. Any others that are still around?) Personally, I find the idea of a "strategy" game that also requires fast twitch responses to play successfully downright oxymoronic. Games are sacrificing (a certain kind of) depth at the altar of "real-time".
  
  (Certainly there are "deep" fighting games like Soul Calibur, but that's not the same kind of deep I mean.)
15. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 06:49 · Score: 0
  
  Er no that was a rumor in Famitsu, a completely ungrounded one too.
16. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by steveo777 · 2006-09-26 06:58 · Score: 1
  
  Well, as far as turn-based strategy, I guess we're stuck with all the tactics games and La Pucell. Personally, I've loved every minute of every Fire Embelem. Though FFT Advance moved so slow it took me months to get into it. I think I timed it at about 12-20 seconds between each turn. Which could be taken down to 4-6, but that's still too much.
  
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17. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Jerf · 2006-09-26 14:37 · Score: 1
  
  There are two things now I'm looking for in tactics and RPGs now: Skippable cut scenes, and turns that don't take for-freakin' ever.
  
  Advance Wars is the ideal; slow eye candy on one end of the options, dropping down to a quick blip and numbers changing on the other. FFX-2 actually did pretty well in this department, too, with the fancy battle animations that FF is known for being reducible to momentary blips inline with the rest of the battle.
  
  (Not having endless random battles is beginning to factor in there, but I can still tolerate it, although probably only because I've been playing RPG games since they consisted of little more than random battles, like the Bard's Tale.)
18. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by WhyCause · 2006-09-26 16:22 · Score: 1
  
  Advance Wars is the ideal; slow eye candy on one end of the options, dropping down to a quick blip and numbers changing on the other.
  
  Fire Emblem has the same set of options, allowing you to turn off all battle animations.
  
  You can also press start to skip cutscenes - useful when you are re-playing a chapter so that your Pegasus Knight doesn't die.
19. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by steveo777 · 2006-09-26 23:38 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, that's why I loved Fire Embelem so much. Even on the GameCube. Oh, and if your pegasus knights are dieing, than you really need to level them up proper, because they should be tanks. Sure, almost no defense, but utterly untouchable. I've played through each game using hit-and-run tactics and no knights or generals. They move to slow and get swamped by mages far too easily. All they would need is one more movement and I'd use 'em. But if they can't out run a few mages... pah!
  
  --
  This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
20. Re:One Thing I hate about Console battles by Rydia · 2006-09-27 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  The nice thing about FE is that you can two completely different armies, even with some of the same characters. There's no huge advantage of a fast attack build vs. a slow defense one. Nintendo always gets the balance right.
well... by B00yah · 2006-09-26 02:28 · Score: 3, Insightful

It seems microsoft may have finally figured out what it takes to get some hype in japan: rpgs, and quirky, somewhat off games. It's a shame there is no Wii titles in the top 5, but Phoenix Wright for the DS did manage to break that group. I honestly hope that these rpg titles match up to the hype, and allows for a true three system battle in Japan. Because nothing generates innovation more than competition.

--

How Jaded Are You?
1. Re:well... by Leviance · 2006-09-26 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Correct me if I'm wrong, but Nintendo wasn't even at the Tokyo game show, hence the reason they aren't predominantly on the list...
2. Re:well... by BeardsmoreA · 2006-09-26 03:13 · Score: 1
  
  I'm never convinced by that sentiment. When one player dominates a field, surely you get the underdogs / fresh talent absolutely striving to innovate, just to get a foothold in the market by blowing the current tech away... Just my 2 Gil
3. Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 03:16 · Score: 0
  
  From the article, it sounds like Nintendo had a small presence at the show. Just 3 Wii games on display, not playable by attendees. The explanation given in the article kind of concerned me, actually... the writer says he was told that the lighting conditions at the show were interfering with the Wii-mote. Apparently, flash photography can screw it up.
  
  I was under the impression that it was more RF than light gun, but this implies otherwise. Eww....
4. Re:well... by Leviance · 2006-09-26 04:08 · Score: 1
  
  Well, if you look the few titles mentioned were all by third parties. And in the article they hardly address the Sonic Wii game from the standpoint as if they actually played it. Interesting nonetheless.
5. Re:well... by KDR_11k · 2006-09-26 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  The controller identifies the "sensor" bar by its IR signature. If there's too much IR noise it may not be able to track the bar.
  
  --
  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
6. Re:well... by SoapDish · 2006-09-26 04:37 · Score: 1
  
  It's only the light gun feature that uses the IR bar. Buttons and motion detection use RF.
  
  And I think that Nintendo has proven it's abilities with both. Super scope and Wavebird anyone?
7. Re:well... by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  How the video game industry works: everyone says they're excited about the game with the most sparks, and then they go to the store and buy 3 DS games and a copy of Madden.
Great White Hope? by RumGunner · 2006-09-26 02:28 · Score: 0, Offtopic

That's kind of a racist term. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_White_Hope/
1. Re:Great White Hope? by suv4x4 · 2006-09-26 02:58 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  That's kind of a racist term.
  
  Wow, using a color name in an abstract phrase is racism, people!
  
  Oh did I say 'people', I don't wanna insult the rest of the animals!
  
  And plants!
  
  And inanimate objects!
  
  Aaaaaa! I just can't do it, I guess I'm a racist, shoot me!
2. Re:Great White Hope? by RumGunner · 2006-09-26 03:19 · Score: 0
  
  My apologies, this is the correct link to the article I was pointing out.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_White_Hope
  
  The implication is that "white" needs to somehow gain superiority, as if there is something inherently wrong with some "other" color having gained an advantage.
  
  It's definitely a racist term. Racism still exists, but pointing it out isn't very popular.
3. Re:Great White Hope? by i_should_be_working · 2006-09-26 03:37 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  That link doesn't actually have any info, but this one does even though it's just the article for a play of the same name.
  
  The term Great White Hope is used today to describe something which people are hoping for and putting all their weight behind (in this case Microsoft with these RPGs) but that has little chance of succeeding (I assume because Japan is Sony land).
  
  The original Great White Hope was any white boxer who could beat black Jack Johnson. It carries racist implications becasue
  a) It was a racist time period where people rooted for a particular boxer just because they didn't like the colour of the other boxer's skin.
  b) Since no Great White Hope came along to beat Jack Johnson, the term implies a lost cause and reminds us of the stereotype that whites are no good at boxing.
  
  I don't think it's considered particularly offensive by anyone, but it's still a weird phrase to use nowadays. Without the context, it doesn't really get the point across. It probably is apt for the situation here though.
  
  To the people who modded this guy down: commenting on the prose of the summary is a well accepted tradition here at /. If you don't like what was said, then mod it overrated, or better yet, argue.
4. Re:Great White Hope? by brkello · 2006-09-26 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  Uhh, yeah, racism exists...but I still fail to see how this is racist. From your link, the great white hope basically is a hope that a white person could do well in an activity that is dominated by another race. Whether you would like to realize this or not, we as humans are always going to recognize differences and favor things that are more like ourselves. As a U.S. citizen, is it negative for me to hope U.S. team members will get the gold? Of course not. This is the same thing. Now, if I say I hate black people and hope they lose...that is racism. But rooting for someone of the same race as me? That's natural.
  
  This is a serious problem these days...you guys need to realize what racism really is. I am not going to apologize to people because I am white or my ancestor (I don't know if they did or not) had slaves. I grew up in a state where white people are a minority (New Mexico). Racial sensitivity has gone to far. If I call someone black, it is not an insult. Why the hell should I call them African Americans? Are all black people from Africa? Were they born in Africa? Shouldn't I be called an English-American then? It's just rampant stupidity and it's time people stop putting up with it.
  
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5. Re:Great White Hope? by oc255 · 2006-09-26 04:29 · Score: 1
  
  The language is a symptom of the tension. The tension is from the colonial past. The colonial past is a result of picking the nearest geographically, strongest physically, easiest to exploit people. The skin color is completely arbitrary. If Africans were purple and strong, Europeans would have still done horrible crimes against them and cause present racial tension. However, color is still arbitrary and that helps racism so much to realize the dumb luck of it all and that other places have their own colonial tension too.
  
  Eventually, we'll all be tanish eskimo-like people with the strength of all races from the strongest genes. And then we'll be sexist exclusively, able to focus all of our hate on one difference instead of many. :P
6. Re:Great White Hope? by i_should_be_working · 2006-09-26 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  And to the person who modded that down: I gave an explanation of how the term relates to the actual article. How is that off-topic?
  
  Go ahead, mod this down too instead of arguing. Coward.
7. Re:Great White Hope? by kalirion · 2006-09-26 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  Eventually, we'll all be tanish eskimo-like people with the strength of all races from the strongest genes. And then we'll be sexist exclusively, able to focus all of our hate on one difference instead of many. :P
  
  At least until we genetically engineer ourselves to become hermaphrodites to get rid of the social interraction required for reproduction. Then someone will ask why we didn't simply go with cloning, and we'll feel very stupid. But hey, the telekinetic transducer lobes will make up for it.
8. Re:Great White Hope? by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 13:43 · Score: 0
  
  become hermaphrodites to get rid of the social interraction required for reproduction. Then someone will ask why we didn't simply go with cloning, and we'll feel very stupid. But hey, the telekinetic transducer lobes will make up for it.
  
  OK, I'd like to propose a new law. Let's call it Dick's First Law of Authorship:
  
  It reads: "All scifi writers become dirty old men when they get old." For evidence, see Heinlein, Niven (who, admittedly, started out as a dirty young man), and Hubbard (religion being the dirtiest of the lot)
  
  And, of course, the First Corollary: Asimov was a dirty old man, but nobody recognized this because none of Asimov's readers were turned on by his stories about incest or naked preteen hermaphrodites.
  
  Of course, every law has an exception that proves the rule, for this one take Ursula K Le Guin: She became a dirty old woman.
  
  Law named in memory of Philip K. Dick, who, had he lived to become a dirty old man, would have surely written some awesomely dirty stuff.
White Knight by Zinnian · 2006-09-26 02:32 · Score: 1

I saw the video linked from Penny-Arcades site yesterday and have to say that I was pretty impressed. It might not be popular to like Sony at the moment, but if they can pull of a title or two like this then I may start to sway my opinion back in their favor. I am a gamer at heart after all.
1. Re:White Knight by SoapDish · 2006-09-26 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  Same here, if they keep pulling out games that look like that, I'd probably get a system once the price goes down just for those games.
  
  I think the reason why that video worked so well, is that it showcases the gameplay. Too many game previews are all about the movie-esque flashy graphics, jump shots, and plot. I want a game that's fun to PLAY, not to watch.
2. Re:White Knight by Nazmun · 2006-09-26 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, I almost wouldn't have bothered with the ps3 without seeing that video. Nothing else looked interesting enough to plunk down $200-$400 on a console (i'm definately not spending goddamn launch price on the system).
  
  --
  Hmmm... Pie...
3. Re:White Knight by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 03:16 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  I kust be alone in NOT finding it impressive. What was so great about it? Graphics? The game play certainly didn't seem that wowwing -- press a button, get a minute of animation, press another button, get another minute of animated conversations and transformation scenes and such.
4. Re:White Knight by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 03:32 · Score: 0
  
  I think it appeals to a certain specific audience. Another poster described it as looking kind of like Final Fantasy, but more fluid. That's sort of what I was thinking when I watched the trailer: "If I liked the recent Final Fantasy games, I think I'd be totally in love with this."
  
  So, it seems like kind of a niche thing, but I guess it's probably a pretty big niche.
5. Re:White Knight by Overneath42 · 2006-09-26 05:26 · Score: 1
  
  I was really impressed with the video until I saw the character models. They suffer from the same issues that character models on the PS2 suffered - lack of depth. The costumes looked flat and lifeless, as well as too overdesigned.
  
  The drunken wobbling they were doing in the battle preparation sequence was pretty unintentionally funny, too.
6. Re:White Knight by heinousjay · 2006-09-26 06:17 · Score: 1
  
  You're definitely not alone. It looked pretty, but not so pretty as to wow me, and it looked like there was very little actual game to the game. I'm not really sure what people are so excited about here, but I think I now have a pretty good sense of how mediocre consoles with mediocre games (PS1 and PS2) could dominate the market.
  
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7. Re:White Knight by DarkGreenNight · 2006-09-26 07:16 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Sure, it's a big niche, but...
  
  I, for one, would like to play an RPG, even a japanese style one, where the character was an adult! Seriously, I'm fed up with those angsty kids.
  
  When looking that video I was thinking "Can I skip that animation? Oh, I like this character. Oh noes! The main character is surely that other one that is a Cloud-Clone. The fighting is half nice and half phony. What is that? A Dragon? Ah, it must be the fire invocation that is in every game. Oh, in this FF the invocations are transformations, cute."
  
  Yep, nice FF-like game, but is just that. But what about old-fart gamers?
  
  I am a mature gamer, hear me roar!
Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by Trillian_1138 · 2006-09-26 02:34 · Score: 3, Informative

"Print" is your friend. Here ya go.
Some tidbits: Lost Odyssey and Blue Dragon (both XBox 360) share first place, and of the 20 (21 counting both first placers) 7 are for XBox 360, 1 PC, 4 NDS, 2 PS2, 1 Wii, 5 PS3 (I keep recounting and still get 20 - clearly I keep missing an entry). -Trillian
1. Re:Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by ElleyKitten · 2006-09-26 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  I keep recounting and still get 20 - clearly I keep missing an entry
  You're not - there's no number 2.
  
  --
  "What is Internet Explorer 7? Are you saying we can't access the normal internet?" - I love tech support. Really.
2. Re:Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by Psychotext · 2006-09-26 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  I was amazed at how many 360 games were on the list. Looks like now we'll see if the "racist purchasing" accusation has any weight or not. Personally I think it's crap because of the success of things like the ipod... but fanboys seem to put a lot of weight on it.
  
  As much as I dislike some things MS does, I can't help but feel a little sorry for them in Japan! =D
  
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3. Re:Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by Richard+W.M.+Jones · 2006-09-26 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, 20 games which are exactly like all the other games around at the moment, but with slightly fancier graphics.
  
  Where is the next ground-breaking playable game I can play with my friends, like Katamari Damacy or Super Monkey Ball or Mario Kart?
  
  Rich.
  
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  libguestfs - tools for accessing and modifying virtual machine disk images
4. Re:Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by brkello · 2006-09-26 04:08 · Score: 1
  
  All of those have sequels that you can play with your friends. Seriously though, on a new gen system, where everything is so expensive, people are going to take less risks and go with things that have the best chance to sell. Once the architecture is better understood, you might see some 'different' games. But I really don't see what you have to complain about...because of the Wii controller, games will have to be innovative...they may be the same games, but how you interact with it will be totally different. So get yourself one of those. While innovation is fine, I really don't care as long as it is a good game (as do most sane people). The people on here who cry for innovation is driving me nuts. You will never get the innovation of the 80s because games was a whole new medium. Anything you did at that point was an innovation.
  
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5. Re:Article-on-a-Single-Page Link by badasscat · 2006-09-26 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  I was amazed at how many 360 games were on the list. Looks like now we'll see if the "racist purchasing" accusation has any weight or not.
  
  Uh, no... because this list is compiled by westerners, for westerners.
  
  I would bet that any "top 20" list generated by a Japanese publication would look a lot different. And it would surprise me if the 360 had more than 2 or at most 3 titles on such a list.
  
  Regardless, it has always been a myth that any single game or any single genre sells consoles in Japan. The truth is we only ever see a fraction of the games released there here - the consoles that sell the best in Japan are almost invariably the consoles with the *most* games. Quality is important too, but quantity can almost serve as a brute force approach to quality and genre representation - get 2,000 games for a system and you're almost guaranteed there will be a few gems among the crap and also that pretty much every genre is going to be heavily populated. That's the case with the PS2, Game Boy (and increasingly the DS), it was the case with the PS1, Super Famicom, Famicom, etc. It is not the case with the Xbox 360.
  
  Long story short, I would doubt the 360 will sell any better after TGS (and with the PS3's approach, it will likely sell worse). But it's still got nothing to do with "racism" and everything to do with a misunderstanding of the Japanese market on the part of MS and western developers.
Food for thought. by Square+Snow+Man · 2006-09-26 02:37 · Score: 1

In the top 20 are..

1 PC game.
1 Wii game.
2 Ps2 games.
4 DS games.
5 Ps3 games.
7 xbox360 Games.
1. Re:Food for thought. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 02:48 · Score: 0
  
  I fixdure list ferya:
  
  Food for thought:
  
  1 PC game.
  1 Wii game.
  2 Ps2 games.
  4 DS games.
  5 Ps3 games (which you won't be able to afford anyway if you're not rich and you have any responsibilities).
  7 xbox360 Games (which may or may not play depending on which unacceptable manufacturing defect microsoft is denying even exists at the moment).
  
  Simplistic metrics work well for people with simplistic minds, I suppose. I'll still be getting the Wii, thanks. No game is so much fun as to be worth first paying $600 for a machine that only does one basic thing I can actaully use, and I tend not to buy $500 consumer electronics that function worse than most of the free calculators in my house.
  
  Even if I hate it, at least it didn't cost me $600 to figure it out.
2. Re:Food for thought. by tuck3r · 2006-09-26 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  which proves that while microsoft has crappy operating systems they seem to have removed sony from gaming console kingship
  
  --
  tuck3r
3. Re:Food for thought. by ConfusedSelfHating · 2006-09-26 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  Some of the Xbox 360 games will be out on the PS3. Some of the PS3 games will be out on the Xbox 360. I think a lot of the early porting will be to the Xbox 360 because it is a known quantity, we've seen quite a few 360 games hit number one in the games sales charts. If the PS3 really takes off, you'll see a lot of 360 games released on the PS3 as well. It's difficult to tell whether or not games can be ported to the Wii because of the controller scheme. Nintendo seems to be going it's own way, quite a few DS games though.
  
  This really shows that Microsoft is putting a lot of focus on winning Japanese market share. Their goal should be third place, but a strong third place. If they sell 5 to 8 million consoles that will be an improvement in Japan, 200 thousand would be considered a miserable failure. I believe that they are currently at 85 thousand sold in Japan.
  
  The Xbox 360 needs Halo 3, the PS3 needs Final Fantasy XIII and the Wii needs a Mario platform game (Mario Galaxy?). These are the games which will really sell consoles. There are a lot of gamers who are waiting for these games to be released before they buy.
  
  I am hoping and praying for a price war.
4. Re:Food for thought. by bigman2003 · 2006-09-26 03:54 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I probably won't ever buy a PS3, because I am a huge 360 fanboy.
  
  But...your comment about not buying it unless you rich, or have no responsibilities....wrong.
  
  I've commented before that it seems like a lot of poor people are on Slashdot. But remember, we aren't all poor.
  
  My wife and I both work, neither of us makes a ton of money. But, our combined salary is about $125,000/year. So a PS3 would be .48% of my income. For something that should last 4-5 years, who cares?
  
  Not a big deal- you don't have to be rich. I'm not rich, and I sure don't sweat $600. I would say that my income level is pretty average, and I do have responsibilities (House, cars, family, etc.) but the price does not concern me.
  
  I'm just amazed that on Slashdot, with so many people working in the tech field, people cry poor all the time. What do these people do, write free code for non-profits?
  
  --
  No reason to lie.
5. Re:Food for thought. by brkello · 2006-09-26 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  You are just a simplistic fanboy. Get your Wii and be happy. The rest of us will sit on the sidelines and wait and see which console will give us what we want. We'll probably get 2 or 3 of the consoles. And when the Wii comes out and has defects, will you be just as bitter? Of course not, you would blame some component manufacturer rather than admit that Nintendo isn't perfect either. Grow up.
  
  --
  Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
6. Re:Food for thought. by brkello · 2006-09-26 04:14 · Score: 1
  
  I'm really with you on the price war thing. I think Nintendo is going to be interesting...I don't think a lot of games will be ported to or from the Wii. I think the controller begs for different type of game. So even if there is Madden on all three consoles...the one on the Wii will be a whole different beast. We'll have to wait and see if that is a good thing or not.
  
  --
  Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com
7. Re:Food for thought. by TiwazTyrsfist · 2006-09-26 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  So, That one guys top 20. Top twenty according to some single reviewer from a web site who went to TGS, not Top Twenty as voted on by a statisticly significant number of people.
8. Re:Food for thought. by badasscat · 2006-09-26 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  I'm just amazed that on Slashdot, with so many people working in the tech field, people cry poor all the time. What do these people do, write free code for non-profits?
  
  I'm with you, and honestly you seem to be in pretty much the exact same boat as me (similar combined income, but with a house, car, etc. to take care of).
  
  My theories on the Slashdot crowd:
  
  1. A lot of them are still college students (or younger). I remember those days well - I sometimes went weeks eating nothing but Ramen because it was 25 cents per pack. *That's* poor.
  
  2. Those in the work force do seem to by and large have low-level jobs. (Not a hard and fast rule; I'm just playing a numbers game here.)
  
  3. As it is a site "for nerds", and it skews probably in the mid-20's range or lower, I would honestly bet that those of us who are married are outnumbered by those that aren't. Those people only have one income to rely on.
  
  4. Prices and income levels vary a *lot* region to region. Those of us on the coasts making a combined $130,000 per year probably sound rich to those in middle America. But we're not - the cost of living is much higher. Still, it does make $600 sound a lot cheaper than it would to a married couple in Kansas making a middle-class (for that area) $65,000 per year combined.
  
  I don't fault people who say $600 is too much for an entertainment device. I mean people in the world are legitimately starving and $600 could probably feed those people for a year. In relative terms, $600 really is a lot of money for something that is totally unnecessary to live.
  
  But the fact is this is America; we've got poor people here too, but we also have more than enough middle class and higher to support a $600 system for a while, at least. If you are married and have a decent combined income - "responsibilities" or not - $600 is not ridiculous at all for something that plays movies and games and that you expect to last for 5 years.
  
  I don't think Sony's got much to worry about as far as pricing is concerned. There will still be shortages. Once the demand at $600 starts to wane, they'll just drop the price.
  
  btw, I probably *will* buy the cheaper model (at $500) now that HDMI is included. I can always upgrade the drive later if I have to (according to Sony, it'll take a standard PC drive).
9. Re:Food for thought. by johnsmith_12345 · 2006-09-26 05:18 · Score: 1
  
  If the PS3 takes a standard bluray drive, could I buy one, rip out the drive and put it in my Comp?
10. Re:Food for thought. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 06:24 · Score: 0
  
  Yeah ... It really isn't surprising that the Wii had so few titles in the top 20 because Nintendo doesn't do the Tokyo Game Show. What this means is that Games like Super Mario Galaxy and The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (which would be in the top 10 regardless) were not there to gain praise. The fact is that third parties tend not to show Nintendo based products because they don't gain the attention because of a lack of a presence from Nintendo.
11. Re:Food for thought. by shimage · 2006-09-26 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  You don't have to be poor to not want to spend $600. My wife and I are grad students, so we're not exactly rich (although, we also don't qualify as "poor", which is to say, I don't get food stamps or anything like that). But we have enough that I can pretty much afford what I want. I've plunked down way more than $600 for what are essentially toys. So when I say that $600 is too much, it's not like I'd be starving if I bought it. If some bastard took $600 out of my figurative pocket, I'd be more-or-less fine. That doesn't mean that I want to spend $600 on random things. If it did things that I was willing to pay $600 for, then I would. End of story. As far as I'm concerned, it doesn't. And it wouldn't really matter how rich I was, because I'm already capable of making the purchase. That said, I am not surprised that there are people that find it "inexpensive". They just value what it provides more highly than I do.
  
  p.s. you shouldn't look at the fraction of your total income that the PS3 represents; it should be the fraction of your disposable income.
12. Re:Food for thought. by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 12:04 · Score: 0
  
  Well, I assume there are many who post on Slashdot who are not into their careers yet, either in H.S. or College. Then there have got to be some like me who are too poor to afford college (had to drop out when I got laid off work, and did not qualify for Pell grant or much of federal student loans; dont't ask why, I don't know) and so have a difficult time finding work that pays decently.
White Knight video by tygerstripes · 2006-09-26 02:42 · Score: 2, Informative

For those who're interested, the White Knight video really is pretty exciting - there's a certain Final Fantasy about it, but it seems unbelievably more fluid and natural.

Be excited. Oh yes. I just wish I could be arsed with consoles...

--
Meta will eat itself
Mod Parent Up by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 02:47 · Score: 0

That is exactly what I was thinking.
Article illustrates 360's lack of good PR in Japan by romrunning · 2006-09-26 03:18 · Score: 1

From the article's end: "On Sunday afternoon, the CESA (Computer Entertainment Supplier's Association) announced their eleven favored games of the show. The list circulated to the press was arranged in Japanese alphabetical order, and featured on television news programs all over Japan. The list included Gran Turismo HD, The Eye of Judgment, the 3D remake of Tales of Destiny for PlayStation 2, Elebits for Nintendo Wii, Seiken Densetsu 4 for PlayStation 2, Monster Hunter 2 for PSP, Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops for PSP, and Gyakuten Saiban (Phoenix Wright) 4 for Nintendo DS."

Lost Odyssey & Blue Dragon both look very good; if MS wants to achieve some measure of success in Japan, why don't they direct a part of its massive marketing machine into generating a little noise about its best titles? Are they relying on the underground/guerilla/grass-roots type of hype-generation?
Re:Article illustrates 360's lack of good PR in Ja by A+Brand+of+Fire · 2006-09-26 04:14 · Score: 1

It's hard to have good PR in Japan when your console's name is written as × (×-hako — for some reason, Japanese unicode isn't showing up), which essentially means no-good box in Japanese.

Lost Odyssey & Blue Dragon both look very good; if MS wants to achieve some measure of success in Japan, why don't they direct a part of its massive marketing machine into generating a little noise about its best titles? Are they relying on the underground/guerilla/grass-roots type of hype-generation?

I couldn't agree more; Sakaguchi-san has an excellent track record as a creator-writer-director for the Final Fantasy series, and his and close compadre Nobuo Uematsu's work at Mistwalker don't look to disappoint. Having such a powerhouse developing software is sure to garner some attention by word of mouth at the very least, but if Microsoft hopes to be successful on the Japanese front, they should probably look into some market research with the otaku crowd and hire a died-in-the-wool—and very Japanese—advertising team to market their product.

--
[End of Line]
Wait, wait by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 06:49 · Score: 0

It seems microsoft may have finally figured out what it takes to get some hype in japan

Wait, hype in Japan?

We're all in America. Next-Gen is an American magazine. Zonk is American.

The actual Japanese people at TGS voted "best of show" to Elebits, a Nintendo Wii game, even though Nintendo didn't even attend TGS.

Don't you mean "it seems microsoft may have finally figured out what it takes to get some hype from American japanophiles"?

Blue Dragon isn't aimed at Japan, and it's not going to save the XBox 360 from the meat grinder in Japan. Blue Dragon is aimed at Americans that like JRPGs, and its Japanese-first release is a mere formality.
Blue Dragon ads were everywhere, but not LO by jchenx · 2006-09-26 07:56 · Score: 1

From what I've heard, Blue Dragon was advertised everywhere around TGS. I think they were handing out shopping bags with the logo, which people would use to carry other TGS swag, and provide ample advertising while doing so. I think there was some handouts taking place on subways and such as well.

But yeah, it looks like Lost Odyssey didn't get too much love for some reason. My guess is that Mistwalker/MS wants to put all their eggs in one basket, promote Blue Dragon (especially since it'll be a pack-in game for the 360 core version), and once people realize that Mistwalker Studios is for real ... that they'll naturally seek out the other title they're releasing for the 360.

I'm not a marketer, so I don't know how smart of a tactic that actually is, but that's my 2 cents. We'll see in a few months how well it worked.

--
-- jchenx
1. Re:Blue Dragon ads were everywhere, but not LO by 108 · 2006-09-26 21:30 · Score: 1
  
  Hello.
  
  I'm the guy who wrote the article.
  
  . . . Ahem.
  
  Anyway. Yeah, they're not pushing Lost Odyssey at all. Either that, or the fact that the chairman of the jury who selected the top games of the show is none other than Yoichi Wada, president of Square-Enix.
  
  Hoho!!
  
  Maybe a little jealousy, hmmmm? The CESA organization also selected Final Fantasy XII as one of the two "Grand Award" winners for the 2006 Japan Game Awards.
  
  Hmmm!!
  
  Either way, Blue Dragon is the big hope. It's the one they're packing in with the system come its release in December. There are enough legions of fans of Sakaguchi's that the console will sell just fine. Don't predict a huge explosion of sales, though.
  
  I think Microsoft is just playing it by ear. Which is good enough. There was certainly some PS3 fanaticism at the Tokyo Game Show, and it was certainly overwhelming; I'm sure Microsoft is aware of what they're going against and is merely not wasting too much time fighting the launch crowd. A month after the PS3 launches with Genji 2 and Ridge Racer 7, both games targeted at people who NEEEEEEEEED a game right when the console launches, MS has their must-buy game coming out.
  
  I think it's coming out just in time, in fact.
Grandia by 7Prime · 2006-09-26 09:58 · Score: 1

Star Ocean 3 was rediculous...ly bad. It got so much hype an praise, and having loved SO2, I was really hoping for something special. Instead, the battle system, which really is the only reason for playing a SO game, was incredibly badly designed, combersomb, and frusterating. On top of that, the story was shit (hackneyed cliche after cliche, and not even done well), the dialog was cringe-worthy, the characters were flat and didn't exude any feeling, and worst of all, the camera angle made navigation so confusing, that it forced me to play the game with the transparent map over the screen the ENTIRE GAME, which pretty much kills any ingame graphics.

Have you played Grandia 3? I saw you mentioned Grandia 2, so I thought I'd mention it. Where-as, overall, I was much more drawn to the characters and dialog in Grandia 2 (Cam Clarke as Ryudo helped that as well), I have to say, the battle system in Grandia 3 is perfection! It does make more sense to have the progress done in a circular dial as opposed to a bar, and there's some added ways of cancelling enemies that really work well. I think it's safe to say that for stop time battle systems (including FFs ATB varient), hell, any RPG battle system, Grandia 3s is the best, most fun, and most involving without getting rediculously complex. I just wish the characters and dialog were to the calliber of its predicessor.

--
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
1. Re:Grandia by Jerf · 2006-09-26 14:41 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, hey, forgot about that. I think if I stop in to my local Gamestop and they have that I may just trade Star Ocean in for it without finishing.
  
  Thanks.
Correct by Anonymous Coward · 2006-09-26 11:27 · Score: 0

Nintendo is holding their own, separate event and did not have a first-party presence at TGS.
Blue Dragon a nice "consolation prize" ... by jchenx · 2006-09-27 04:19 · Score: 1

I agree. Blue Dragon will probably be a nice "consolation prize" for those in Japan who aren't lucky enough to snap up one of the few PS3s being released for that region. And if the game is good enough, they just might forget about Sony altogether, at least until FFXIII comes out (which won't be for another year, at least).

I was surprised by how many J-RPGs are being released for the 360. Sure, many of them may end up being rather mediocre, but that's certainly more than 0. (And Japan has its fair share of mediocre RPGs to begin with) All it takes is for one mega-hit to bring in the masses. If I had to guess, MS is banking on Blue Dragon to be Japan's "Halo" game.

--
-- jchenx
Another set of opinions by gamer4Life · 2006-09-29 23:07 · Score: 1

Do a search on Google News for "Tokyo Game Show" and with the first result you get an article where it states the top 2 games at TGS are for the PS3, while in 3rd place thers is a game for the XBox 360.

It's obvious that the person who submitted the story has an XBox bias. I'm thinking /. has an XBox bias in general, perhaps because Microsoft pays for more ads on the site than Sony, along w/ the number of people who work for/with Microsoft on this site.