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Exploring the Marvel Universe Online
In the wake of yesterday's formal announcement of the Marvel Online title, Gamespot has an interview with 'Cryptic Studios' creative director, Jack Emmert, and Marvel Entertainment's vice president of Interactive, Ames Kirshen — as well as Microsoft Game Studios' senior director of business development, Frank Pape. They discuss the details of a game on Windows and the 360 (both will play in the same world), how the game will reflect the comics, and why Cryptic is involved. From the article: "Cryptic with their great pedigree, their great track record on the City of Heroes franchise — it was the perfect partner. We have access to all the characters in the history and lore of the Marvel universe to put into this game. So we're super excited. I mean this is, for an MMO player and for folks on the console that want to play an MMO and bringing in a new audience, it's as compelling a statement as we can make." And here I thought they were going to talk about that little multi-year lawsuit between Cryptic and Marvel.
1. Make a comic-themed MMO. 2. Get sued by Marvel, make comic-themed MMO for them that competes against two of your own products. 3. Profit?!?
Jack "Statesman" Emmert claims that the new MMO will be more "story" based and tied into new comic book storylines etc and that they will continue to support the COX (City of Villains and City of Heroes) games. However, it seems to me that they must be competing with themselves on some level, even if with two separate development teams at Cryptic handling the different games. Can anyone here imagine them *not* using the same style of character creator that they have in the COX games? It is brilliantly executed and almost necessary for this type of game so I'm pretty sure we will see it in some form in the Marvel MMO. The Marvel MMO will probably have 40-50% nicer looking graphics which is going to woo a lot of people as well as full permission to use all Marvel charactes in the story which is also going to draw a lot of fans. I think the COX games have reached their peak in subscribers and once the Marvel MMO comes out, they will in all likelihood lose customers. However, Cryptic is probably making a % of all profits from the Marvel MMO so this works out well for them but not so great for long-term support for the COX games.
"To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield." - Tennyson
I think we need an xmen in the world of warcraft style and we need it soon whose with me?
The only way I see a MMO doing well on a console would be twitch-style gameplay. Anything with hardcore RPG elements is better done with a keyboard.
The only twitch-based MMO I can think of is Sony's Planetscape (I believe). I hope they go this route, it would be fun on a console.
Orcs? Cool. Elf slaughter? Cool. Pig roasts? Still cool.
Running around in tights and underroos doing good? Creepy.
Count me out.
I haven't seen Hulk in any of the trailers. Has he been excluded for some reason?
Cryptic never had enough devs to actually develop City of Heroes forward from it's intial smack-endless-piles-of-baddies-with-mad-AE-attacks gameplay. The game has zero content.
Yes, they relesed an expansion, that copypasted half the powers from Heroes side, and dropped another pile of nearly contect-free stuff and told people to go level again from zero.
Also, a superhero game with a license is the silliest idea ever. Either you have 200 spidermans zipping around (beyond silly), or you can't allow players to play 'name' characters, at which point the whole point of a license goes out of the window. People play license games to 'be the hero' so to speak, and that doesn't work in a MMO. The concept is just broken out of the gate.
Expect a weak ripoff of City of Heroes with marvel (tm)(R)'s added all around, with some weak license-tieins like 'name' heroes giving missions to the player characters, and maybe villains as bosses to whack. With zero endgame gameplay at launch and nearly zero post-launch content.
MMOs live and die on the _gameplay_, not any license or logo, and while Cryptic did prove with CoH/CoV that they can make a workable superhero combat system that's cool for roughly two weeks, they also proved they couldn't design their way out of a paper bag beyond the combat system. All the bolted-on stuff has been broken - PvP was riddled by extra rules and special pvp nerfs to powers, base system was so badly designed it was unusable to most of the playerbase and the 'crafting' introduced in CoV was so bad it makes EQ2's crafting system look great in comparison.
WoW upped the bar on the amount of content and gameplay required to keep people hooked on a MMO. And even WoW faces constant whines how there's not enough to do. I can't blame people for trying, but I sincerely doubt Marvel Online will be a success - if it even gets out of the gate (Microsoft has a tendency to kill off/sell off MMO projects when their beancounters get the willies during development)
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I'm guessing we'll see 10,000 wolverines and spidermans running around everywhere.
Also, a superhero game with a license is the silliest idea ever. Either you have 200 spidermans zipping around (beyond silly), or you can't allow players to play 'name' characters, at which point the whole point of a license goes out of the window. People play license games to 'be the hero' so to speak, and that doesn't work in a MMO. The concept is just broken out of the gate.
Expect a weak ripoff of City of Heroes with marvel (tm)(R)'s added all around, with some weak license-tieins like 'name' heroes giving missions to the player characters, and maybe villains as bosses to whack. With zero endgame gameplay at launch and nearly zero post-launch content.
If Spidey and Wolverine are just hanging around handing out quests and tossing out catch phrases, it will be stupid.
However if they involve these characters in the actual gameplay, it could be pretty fun.
Imagine taking your original hero character, working your way through the ranks, proving your mettle, such that you become a full-fledged X-Man and get to go on missions with Wolverine. Would that satisfy the desire to "be the hero"? It sounds like it to me. Best of both worlds: My own creation, my personal avatar, I am a bad-ass super-hero, and look there's my favorite Marvel characters kicking ass beside me!
Of course practically speaking I'm not expecting anything that involved. It will probably be as you describe, and be crappy. Yet it is possible, if Marvel decides to give Cryptic a serious up-front cash injection so they have enough developers to handle it. Hopefully Cryptic made money of Co(H|V) themselves and can afford more developers. If they take it seriously, spend the money, and do it right, a Marvel MMO could be great.
I'll start holding my breath right... now.
The enemies of Democracy are
Dibs on "Beyonder" from "Secret Wars 2". Not any of the weird latter incarnations or the "Secret Wars 1" pure energy form.
For those who don't know, This is the guy that at one point KILLED DEATH despite the objections of Eternity and all the other Cosmic beings. Then he brought her back.
You just don't get more powerful than that.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
1. Marvel is evil. They refuse to pay artists, screwed Jack Kirby (and his widow) and have gone bankrupt more times thatn I have fingers on one hand leaving a slough of unpaid debts to artists and writers.
2. Microsoft is evil. I don't think explanation is needed in this regard. The fact that a Microsoft lobbyist is now the ambassador to the EU and is lobbying them to 'be nicer' to Microsoft proves that absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Now take these two companies with little to no moral values and put them together. The fact that they are pandering in 13-year old boys dreams makes them even more repulsive and scary. If you've got a dollar, you are their friend. But if you have a dollar and aren't buying their product, you are their enemy.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Once again Microsoft thinks they need to "get in" on another business aspect that they have no clue about: MMOGS. I am trying to not troll here, but it's NOT going to be as easy as their devs saying "hey guys x-men online lolz". Do they think people are going to jump to play a Marvel MMO so they /can't/ be the superheroes in the MU? Do they think that playing a nobody in the Marvel Universe is going to make people flock there? Who am I supposed to be there? Because there sure can't be 100 Wolverines per server. Work for the heroes in the MU? Boring, and that makes it not even a Marvel MMOG. Yea yea, I guess this is FUD from me. I can't help it when it comes to the "next big mmog" talk. Blizzard knows what it's doing, and from their marketshare their competitors do /not/.
:D
Maybe they think having the name "Marvel" is going to kill WoW? SWG and The Matrix Online both have big names, Star Wars bigger then Marvel...and we see how well it works. Console of PC, I don't see them doing anything but wasting money. I am very skeptical about this. I would definatly LOVE another game to compete with WoW, but given the history of Microsoft and Marvel (both very greedy) they aren't going to be the ones to do it.
Seriously I will repeat: What is the draw supposed to be to a Marvel MMOG if no one can play the heroes they might like? How is it supposed to be better (or different) then CoH/CoV? And just why should I stop playing WoW over this...marketing game.
*shakes head* just my 2c
/geek on
/geek off
Actually the beyonder was an incomplete cosmic cube, they were much more powerful characters in the MU (i.e. The living tribunal)
How will they deal with the vastly different power levels in the Marvel Universe?
For instance, you've got guys like the Punisher, who may have really big guns, but he's just a guy with guns, so he's sort of on the "normal guy level. Then you have guys like the Silver Surfer, Galactus , Quasar, etc. who are all on the "cosmic" level. Then there are guys on the mid level, which includes most mutants save for the super powerful ones (Magneto, Professor X), and then the REALLY powerful but still mostly just on earth guys like Thor, The Hulk and Iron Man.
Comic games like X-Men legends did a good job of balancing out the power levels of the different mutant characters (IMHO), but that's a very different style of play.
In the Marvel Super Heroes table top RPG, the GM controls the interaction on a much more finite level to keep these things balanced. This kind of control is absent in a MMORPG.
Is everyone going to be stuck with a middle "Spider-Man Level" hero? (Not that that would necessarily be boring) I don't see many ways to deal with the complexities of the Marvel universe otherwise.
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
I dono, I would settle for just having the infinity gauntlet my self :D
Do Or Do Not, There Is No Spoon, There Is Only Zuul. Everything in the above post is probably opinion.
So... He's like root, then?
They let the created characters from CoH/ CoV carry over to Marvel Online... They could make the Marvel characters highly active NPC's, individual factions, game master playable character's that interact with the customers on certain quests or even attack them based on random cirumstance, etc; not to mention that you could even raffle off, auction or sell the Marvel characters to the highest bidder. The CoH / CoV characters would be no different in this regard than say, another mutant faction(i.e. west coast avengers, alpha flight, new mutants, etc.)
The possibilities are infinite, but I don't think they know it yet...
I know that. I even read the Fantastic Four episode titled "Secret Wars 3" which ended with him merging with the Molecule Man to form a cosmic cube. Aside from not likening the whole "Man Merging with Man" thing a cosmic cube is not something I picture myself as.
Pure Energy or that female form, same problem. Hell, at one point the Beyonder was a Universe on his own complete with habitable planets.
However, the form he created by copying Captain America's body and Micheal Jackson's Hair combined with his own unique fashion seance. Loose fitting cloths huge boots, shoulder pads. In other words. He doesn't ware tights.
My favorite line of all to do with him went something like this:
"12 seconds to buy the land and process the titles,
17 seconds to pay all the taxes and get the plans approved.
22 seconds after after starting construction, The Beyonder's new headquarters is almost complete. He could have done it all instantly but he has chosen to take things slow and try to fit in"
"Sparta Ilonoise has a new resident."
It's not usually sane to comment on moderation, but... The topic is an upcoming Marvel Universe MMORG. I pick out which character I want to be in that game and state why.
How dose that become "Off Topic" ?
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
Seems to me that at the end of Secret Wars 2, the Beyonder decided to be reborn as a human with powers as opposed to an energy form of infinite power that could take a human shape. When he came out of his little machine, a newborn baby...the Molecule Man sniped him.
Moral: You can be smart. You can be powerful. It's best to be both.
I don't understand MMORPGs. Oh, I certainly get the appeal behind them. Get a few thousand people together and make a living and breathing world to play in, but there is not a single MMORPG that has even come close to doing that with perhaps the singular exception of UO (and that lasted roughly a month). Personally, I envision a Marvel MMORPG to look roughly exactly the same as City of Heroes. You will pick some powers, start at level 1, and then kill roughly a quadrillion mindless NPCs to get more levels. Woo-fucking-hooo.
Personally, I can't wait for the day when an MMORPG maker grows a pair and makes something more interesting then a leveling treadmill. Many have tried, but in the end they have all failed and just rebuilt the same tired leveling treadmill.
Nah, but he's definitely admin.
Nope. root can prevent comands from running Including "kill" and "rm". root can also undo those changes.
--= Isn't it surprising how badly I spell ?
City of Heroes, that game for which I was so hyped and stopped playing after two weeks. I completely forgot about it after four. I remembered soon thereafter as I was billed for another month.
Let us look at its unsuperheroiness.
I aide a fellow hero in felling a dastardly villian. He whines that I'm kill stealing.
Oh look, that lady is getting her handbag stolen! Oh... nevermind, the bad guy is too low level for me to get anything out of it.
Travel powers but no vehicles... I maul people with my fiery fists of fury. The push to take a travel power irritated me as I didn't want one. Give me a damn bicycle or something.
No alter ego. What the holy hell is this crap? No alter ego guts much of the good stuff from superhero comics. No alter ego = No Gwen Stacy story, no emotionaly oomph to the Phoenix story... and the Watchmen? HAHAHAHA
One other problem the game has (and probably still has) was that there were just too many damn heroes in one city.
Will the Marvel game fix all this? Almost certainly not.
OK, I even RTFA'd and was it just that I missed it?
Cryptic - maker of City of Heroes/Villains - is helping Marvel make Marvel MMOG.
That's like Blizzard helping Hasbro make D&D Online.
WTF? How could you have a whole interview and not ask ONE QUESTION about that teeny little conflict-of-interest thing?
I can't see how they can do this and keep CoH/V alive.
-Styopa
Or maybe not... sigh.
CoX(City of Heroes/Villains) had delightful PvE gameplay, but fun though it was, it got repetitive. And there wasn't anything else since team-based PvE was the core focus while the rest was/is added later.
Hopefully this Marvel game is a chance for a fresh start in terms of game mechanics, player-to-player dynamics, and engine limitations. I enjoyed CoX but cancelled after exhausting it. I look forward to more from Cryptic.
And I loved Cryptic's attitude toward its community. They're open and frank with their community. They've made some unpopular changes, but never without careful consideration and clear explanation.
> Pure Energy or that female form, same problem. Hell, at one point the
> Beyonder was a Universe on his own complete with habitable planets.
A universe many times the size of this one, which has four hundred billion galaxies of a hundred billion stars each.
Those of you who dabble in physics would realize how god awful much energy that would be (the Molecule Man once hit him with a blast that would have "slagged several billion dimensions").
Then comes the worst retcon since Victoria Principle dreamed the entire previous season of Dynasty or Dallas or whatever it was: Galactus, a planetary-level guy, "let the Beyonder beat him".
Presumably Galactus also let Dr. Doom ream him since Doom couldn't beat the Beyonder after opening a can of whoop@$$ on Galactus.
Yeah, a guy who could reconfigure the physics of the entire universe, including such that Galactus wouldn't "hunger anymore" couldn't beat Galactus.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Then came "Secret Wars III", wherein it turns out the Beyonder was an incomplete cosmic cube, so he merged with the Molecule Man, the 2nd most powerful entity, who's tiny sliver of cube power made him able to slap Odin around.
Then the Molecule Man separated, but first gave himself a non-cosmic-cube power source similar to his old-school, no-organic-molecules power.
Then much later on, the Molecule Man got mad, forced the old Disco Stu Beyonder to re-form out of the chick, then laid some wh00p@$$ down on him, then let him go again, just to prove he could do it.
But by that time, nobody gave a rat's ass anymore, so you might as well have had Jubilee beat up the Beyonder, who had moved to the "Mary Sue cannon fodder" stage of existence.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Let's see, going with demonstrated feats only, a guy (Beyonder) who can get rid of 100+lbs of excess fat so the gold diggers falling all over him will be truly hot for him, and not just faking it, vs. a guy (Doom) who's in good shape, but is scarred up, which, I guess, would be pretty studly to girls, and also has billions and is a head of state.
So one guy could make girls lust for him even if they didn't want to, and the other could transfer his mind into a girl and go play the proverbial "stand in front of a mirror" game.
Eh, either way, life wouldn't suck.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.