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How Warcraft Really Does Wreck Lives
An anonymous reader writes "There's a great blog post about how World of Warcraft can ruin lives, it's written by a person that was for a long time a member of the largest council on what is now one of the oldest guilds in the world." This is a story that is very familiar to a lot of folks. I know people who are actively wrecking their lives and risking their jobs by playing too much of a video game.
LFG for WoW Addicts Anonymous, PST
"The Burning Crusade expansion for WoW is coming, so named because of how the game devours human lives, leaving them a smoldering ruin." ~ Tycho
It is the setup of the game. It really cannot be enjoyed in short bursts like most games can. You need to finish an hour long dungeon to get any rewards out of playing. Most other games you can drop in for a few 5 to 15 minute rounds. Then again it also speaks out for the woeful lack of discipline many people have... myself included. However i have yet to let it hurt my grades. Must get that glove... beastlakers... .>
You mad
Mom....bathroom
I don't have time to wreck my life...I've got a raid schedule to keep.
There's this married woman I really like. Do you guys think I'd have a chance with her if I introduced her husband to WoW so that he'd get hooked and not perform important functions like working and another I don't need to remind you of? I haven't played it myself so I'm not sure how effective this would be.
Apology to Ubuntu forum.
Games do not wreck people's lives. People wreck their own lives.
Some people gamble, some people cheat on their spouses. Some other people do drugs, and others drink too much. Some people are slackers, some people are workaholics. And yes, some people play video games too much.
Whichever way you look at it, people have a choice. They can stay grounded in reality with minor diversions into fantasy-land (whatever form that fantasy may take) and keep their lives balanced, or they can throw their lives away. Saying that World of Warcraft, The Jerry Springer Show or The Devil made you do it is a cop out.
Heard this kind of nonsense 25 years ago about other games (e.g. dungeons and dragons). The truth is some people have problems between their ears. The problem isn't WarCraft or any other game.
People wreck their own lives.
Anything can, could, and will happen.
Nothing new here, nothing at all...
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Uhm, he's still claiming to be the oldest guild in the _world_. You do know there's a world outside of WoW?
It's called MUD.
- These characters were randomly selected.
News Flash: Too much of anything is bad for you.
Stories effectively identical to the post came out when EverQuest was the big thing, came out when MUDS/MUSHES were the big thing, and have probably come out for every liesure activity developed in the history of man.
The only thing surprising about this is that it continues to surprise people when it happens. If you let your life get consumed, guess what, it gets consumed!
He played for 70 days out of a year. That's "only" 19.something percent. If you're the sort to only need 4 or 5 hours sleep a night you could easily fit that in beside a pretty normal life (9 - 5 job, a light social life, chores, etc). If giving 1/5th of your day over to a hobby is a sign that your life has been devoured then you need to sort out your priorities. Everyone should dedicate that much time at least to stuff they enjoy. Perhaps it's a bit narrowminded to concentrate on a single activity, but it's better than spending all that time at the office or wasted in a bar*.
* Ok, maybe the bar is ok..
http://twitter.com/onion2k
I read this yesterday I think and by now stretch was THIS guy's life wrecked. He put on a bit of weight, stopped some of his other hobbies and wasn't in touch with his friends as much. He met his current girlfriend in the game so lets put this in perspective. By some measures he's done okay.
That is a good post. Basically sums up WoW for a lot of the "hardcore raider" types.
MMORPG's are like being on a treadmill with someone dangling a treat in front of you. Every once in a while you might get a taste, but they will never let you have it because as long as you want what you can't have (perhaps the feeling of 'winning'?) you will keep paying 15 bucks a month to get closer and closer to and end that keeps drifting further away.
Blizzard has made what is arguably the most addictive MMO ever appealing to human nature's greed, and the need to feel accomplished.
Up until last month I was one of those types too. I played WoW EVERY night and every free moment. I would be lying if I said I did not enjoy it.
But a few things intersecting caused me to take a step back.
First was the alpha for the expansion. After a week of playing that I realized all the godly best-on-the-server epic gear my priest had would soon be shit since at level 70 (in some cases earlier) I would get gear at or better than the current gear I had. This basically meant when the expansion came out not only would I have to "grind" out 10 more levels, but from a gear standpoint it would be like re-starting the game.
Secondly, I enrolled in a couple of classes and had some family stuff come up. Between the alpha making me concerned, and real life keeping me busy several nights a week, I have gotten to the point where I do not even feel like logging in most of the time.
Logging in means raiding. Raiding means farming for consumables etc. Farming means work.
It's at this point you begin to realize WoW is like a second job - but one you pay to work at.
Wow, like IRC (and a lot of the rest of the internet) is not just destructive. It *can* be a handy sandbox that prepares people for real life.
I played WoW for about a year, running a major guild. What did I learn?
That I'm good at self depreciating humour.
That I can get people to follow me by being the first one to stand up and provide direction.
That leading people is more about knowing where you are going than how you are going to get there.
How to negotiate peace between two people who have genuinely lost sight of what's important.
Which of those skills have turned out to be useful in my current career? 100% of them. I stand up every day knowing that basically the people I work with are no different to the people I played with, that saying something is better than saying nothing, and that if I get fired hell at least I can enjoy my unemployment hunting for epics with some old friends. It's the same confidence that people who lead sports teams at school get... and now it's available to geeks.
I might point out that being acclimatised to 70 hour working weeks and doing the same boring crap over and over also helps in the real world. Being able to have two priorities and still getting everything done with really limited time isn't exactly bad practice either.
Would I hire ex gamers? Probably. It depends if they have used their time to do something valuable, like learning how to build their confidence, lead, motivate and get along with others - and that's hard to demonstrate.
Like everything else - knowing when you have learned as much as you can and it's time to move on is a big part of determining if online games will be a constructive or destructive thing for you.
Beep beep.
I agree with your sentiment, but having played both D&D and WoW, I can say it's not the same experience.
D&D requires that you have friends, sit down with them in person (yes, now you can play online, etc), and play for some set amount of time. Usually there's a point where the DM says something like 'I'm going to bed' and everyone stops. It requires that everyone gets together, schedules a time to meet, and that the DM put work in before you start playing.
WoW on the other hand never needs to stop. It plays as long as you want to play, and if you are in a large enough guild, then there are always people around for you to work with. Even without a guild there are people out there looking for a pickup group. MMORPGs exacerbate the situation.
Part of the fun with D&D and any r/l gaming is that you are in a time crunch and know it. How far can we get? Think quick, come up with interesting solutions. Laugh and make. Even if you want to play all night, someone in your group is going to be tired and want to stop, so you all have to stop. MMORPGs take away all the restrictions and really enable you to become 'addicted' in all the ways that you might to something else.
I will shred my adversaries. Pull their eyes out just enough to turn them towards their mewing, mutilated faces. Illyria
This guy really hits on what I think is the biggest problem with MMO's. There's no end game. If winning is really important to you (and it's an important part of games in general), then you're never going to be satisfied.
I don't play WoW, but I do play Eve-Online, and it's basically the same thing for a lot of people. They've built big and powerful alliances, they control vast in-game resources, and they're deeply involved in all of the political intrigue in the game. But they're stuck at this terrible point where no matter how much they collect, how much territory they control, there's still tons more out there.
Just like many wealthy people in life spend their money trying to procure more wealth, the means and the end have become basically the same thing, watching a few numbers constantly increase. And since there's an infinite supply of higher numbers, there's no final goal to be reached. You end up playing to win a game that can't actually be won. Not because you're unskilled or aren't working hard enough, but because there is no game-mechanic that qualifies as winning.
Yet it still manages to sweep up lots of people, and stings them along until they burn out. But at least with real life wealth, if you eventually realize what's going on and gain some perspective on life, you've probably got a decent pile of money to support you as you move in a new direction. When you burn out on a video game and decide to leave it, you've likely sacrificed a lot of what you had in the real world.
One time I threw a brick at a duck.
For God's sakes its just a stupid video game. It's not a terrorist. It's not a pack of wild dogs. It's not a drunken driver. It's not a chemical that creates fatal dependencies in your body. Its a VIDEO GAME.
If you can't stop playing it, obviously you have issues. Your life is not in balance, and your obsession to the game is just a symptom of the imbalance.
The game is not wrecking your life, you are.
I play World of Warcraft. I average about seven hours a week (four on sundays, and three more on tuesdays, because thats when all my friends can also play). It is fun. It is not wrecking my life. My character doesn't level up at light speed but so what? It is just a game.
And to all you scintillating geniuses pointing out that there are much older guilds in the REAL world: no fucking shit. The "world" to which he refers is obviously the World of Warcraft.
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
my god- forget "RTFA" how about READ WHAT YOU REPLIED TOO!
the opening of the third of three sentences follows.
I haven't played it myself
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I also didn't like how he compared WoW to "the worst drugs on the market" or whatever. He said WoW was WORSE than those. Please. He played daily for a year and then quit with no desire to go back. Try that with heroin.
"THERE IS NO JUSTICE, THERE IS ONLY ME." -Death
People with very little to do and have addictive personalities are prone to get addicted to anything -- WoW or otherwise. For every major addict that ruins his life, there are dozens that enjoy it responsibly. If WoW weren't around, they'd be addicted to something else -- another game, collecting stamps, stalking people, etc. Addictive personalities have existed for a long, long time.
For my boyfriend & I, we use it as an inexpensive form of entertainment. We raid, but nothing insanely hardcore. 2 nights a week, usually. Other couples watch TV, we play WoW. You can't really beat $15/month ($30 for two) for some quality entertainment.
"Try that with heroin."
Fsck heroin, try that with plain ol smokes. It's been almost 4 years and I still want one now and then...
-nB
whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
Maybe you can get in a game of speed chess, but how much fun is it to drop in for 5 to 15 minutes of Monopoly? Or Scrabble? Do you get the guys together for 15 minutes of football? If there's no line at the lift, maybe you can get in a short ski run.
I think your assertion is not only false, but irrelevant. Now it's video games or the internet, before that it was golf and television, and before that it was radio.
There are many activities that can take up large chunks of time. And there are many people who engage in those activities without farking up the other aspects of their lives. Conversely, I can smoke some crack for 5 to 15 minutes. Does that mean crack is likely to be less harmful to my relationships than WoW?
Ok, maybe that's a bad example ;) Point is, what's wrong with taking responsibility for own life rather than blaming a game?
btw, referencing D&D in this is the wrong game, D&D was never said to be something that will ruin your life
I beg to differ... It's not so popular now but back in the 80's when a) I was into D&D and b) Mazes and Monsters came
out people like this were everywhere! And this guy is jut one
example (albeit an extreme one).
My opinion then was that it's ridiculous to blame the game/manufacturer and as far as WoW is concerned my opinion hasn't changed.
Creationist Textbook Stickers Declared Unconstitutional by CowboyNeal
I suspect it CAN be a real addiction like meth or heroin. I've known many meth and heroin addicts (my father included).
Psychological addictions are no less addictive, yet their consequenses are minute compared with drug addiction. Hell, I know people (myself included) who can be addicted to anger and malice. I find myself looking for reasons to be angry some days. Just like those kids you knew in high school who would do anything for attention (either addicted or have been neglected at home, I've seen both). But like I said, I'd rather be addicted to emotion or WoW than meth any day. I only play an average of 4 hours a week, depending on what else is going on in my life.
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Not too long ago, I saw that there are three videos on one of the more... interesting torrent sites I frequent that are titled:
"World of Whorecraft" (NSFW, duh)
And judging by the screenshots, I think I found someone I can look down on even more than tentacle-loving hentai freaks.
It looks like regular porn, but the girls are wearing elf ears and leather straps and stuff.
But, OK, that's not the worst part.
The worst part: The ONE, SINGLE attractive mid-20-ish college educated young woman that I've ever had in my classes (I'm an IT Trainer. A geeky, hopelessly introverted one who will probably be a lifelong virgin) is a WoW freak. She's about 5'10", blonde, big eyes, long legs and has a little bit of a fitness-model look. She went rock-climbing in the Andes on her last vacation. She really nice and well adjusted (maybe other than playing WoW...) Seriously good looking girl... And she's a geek of the "Lord of the Rings/Magic the Gathering" variety, which probably means she'd fulfill every possible fantasy for about 3/4 of the Slashdot population.
I told her about the "Whorecraft" thing and sent her a link to the site (We send each other off-color jokes and stuff all the time). This is what she wrote back.
"I have an outfit like that. I use it to get (her boyfriend's) attention when he's been raiding too much."
There is no fucking justice in the world.
That's all I'm going to say.
Well, OK, also, people who play WoW now frighten me more than ever.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
WoW and other similar online games are generally designed to be Skinner Boxes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinner_box
You do enough of the required behavior and get a reward. The key is to make the reward incentive strong enough to continue the behavior.
In WoW, and other online games, the goal is to keep the player paying money to the company to keep playing. What attracts players? A good game, marketing, other gamers, escapism, etc. The players, thusly attracted, must be kept entertained reasonably. A guy from Atari used to talk about how they developed games and thought about things like Skinner Boxes.
My comment is not particularly insightful or novel -- just google for Skinner Box and WoW. It's a connection that lots of folks have made.
Part of dealing with the problem is to recognize it when it comes at you and and realize the manipulation taking place. I don't think that the WoW owners are evil for operating their Skinner Box, as ultimately it is an issue that, IMHO, drops to the level of "personal responsibility." I'd like to see more education for kids so that they can recognize these sorts of traps in life.
We teach kids to cross streets, to stay away from old wells, not to smoke, not to shoot heroin, not to get into cars with strangers, etc. Why don't we teach them some basic life skills like recognizing likely "modern day" traps where the danger is not as obvious? Things like shopping and the dopamine connection. How fast food places manipulate their seating to encourage you to leave. How grocery stores manipulate you into walking around the entire store to get to the milk.
While I mentioned "personal responsibility" above re: WoW, the fact that some folks are either more educated about such things or more innately sensitive to the manipulation of SB's should not result in us thinking of those who fall prey to SB's as being morally deficient or lacking in self-control. To some extent, they may not recognize the danger until the SB behavior is so reinforced that changing it is difficult. I have often wondered if there are chemical or physical changes in the brain in gaming addicts that are akin to those who are addicted to alcohol or drugs, for instance. Ignorance of possible harm, rather than lack of self-control, can likely explain at least some of the fallout or collateral damage that can result from overdoing online (or offline) games.
I'm sure that we will see someone ultimately argue that online games (since they are new and shiny and an "in" target) are psycholocigal conditioning devices. I suspect that, as with DOOM in the Columbine case (and GTA, and others), that video games, online and otherwise, will continue to be whipping boys in criminal cases and possibly in the tort system (regulation through litigation).
In any case, I understand the perils of gaming to some extent, and that understanding has helped to inform my personal decisions about doing it. Likewise, I'll try to educate my kids about it. I think that seeing these stories from time to time, though we all roll our eyes at them, is probably useful on the whole, as it reminds us that excesses are often unplanned and that they take their toll over time.
GF
Lots of petrified grits
Bitingly insightful. It is as if the self-aggrandizing he is exhibiting is a backlash against a perceived lack of significance. I apologize if I'm stating the obvious here, but it hasn't really occured to me until you mention it, as it explains some of the ridiculous arrogance that seems common on the Internet.
at least he was taught the truth. There's no point to life, we're just meat sacks. would his life be any better if he was stuff full of a mythology du jour? no he'd just think that it was because at some point in the future they'd get harp lessons.
I support the troops. I pay f'ing taxes.
People who beleive that they are superior, or that god is on their side, are dangerous. And that doesn't just hold true for religion; people who hold to non-religious ideologies that maintain a view of self-superiority are just as bad (see: fascism in the 20th century and social darwinism in the 19th as examples of ideology that gave it's adherants a warm fuzzy feeling of superiority). A little humbleness could do the human race some good.
Plus, I've seen what happens when the only thing driving morality is fear of the afterlife. If a fanatic honestly believes that god wants them to do something immoral, then they'll do it, and to hell with whoever they hurt or kill in the process. Is this somehow better than the apathy displayed by the GP?
Humans are humans. Regardless of reason, religion or era, they have the capacity for evil. To suggest that somehow the modern era is worse than the previous eras is to ignore all the apathy, ignorance and violence of those time periods. To suggest that any religion or ideology can prevent evil is to ignore mankinds capacity for fanaticism. At best it's rose-coloured glasses, and at worst it's an unhealthy desire to return to the bad old days.
Not to say we've improved very much mind you, but I take issue with the idea that there was some better era centuries or millenia past.
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
Oh man, that troll is 30 ft. high. Wow.
Why, oh, why mods, are you giving him Interesting and Insightful mods?
Bury the troll, but first, lets set him on fire:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism
There we go. Now, I'll go out on a limb here, and say that one can believe in evolution and contraception and not be a wanton hedonist. I'll assert that, because that describes me quite well, as well as most of the circle of friends I keep.
From the above mentioned article, you'll see that a very wise Greek had some pretty good ideas about this, roughly 1700 years ago. I especially like the description, "seek modest pleasures in order to attain a state of tranquility and freedom from fear". That sounds pretty damn good to me.
However, we certainly don't need to believe ourselves to be the chosen people of some abstract God to have self-worth. That feeling comes from the level of efficacy in your own life. If you feel that you need to believe you were created with a higher purpose by a higher being to have self worth, well good for you, but it certainly isn't necessary for me to get my rocks off. (Notice the hedonistic comment there? It was intentional)
I'm not going to even touch on the contraception comment, Google around for that one, you'll find plenty of scientific research proving that one to be a red herring almost as big as the aforementioned Troll.
Bottom line: I don't need my Invisible Friend in the Sky to make me feel good about myself. I'm not alone either.
And yea, I know you didn't mention God in your post. To bad, he's the big white elephant in the margins.
>There's no point to life, we're just meat sacks.
Then why do you guys care how he wastes his?
I know why *I* care; why do *you*, if you *honestly* believe that there is no point to life?
Because we've evolved to be social creatures: the well being of the other tribe members contributes to our well being.
You care for the afterlife-treat you were promised if you show an invisible father figure that you did what you were told, I care because I act with others as I would have them act the rest. If someone needs help that I can give, I help.
You can't take the sky from me...